Die, Merge or Re-locate?

[philhawk]

The Kangaroos situation makes me wonder what Hawk fans would do if put in this position.

If we were hypothetically given those three options and HAD to choose one of them, what would you choose?

For me, death would be more honourable than watching your club merge/be relocated.

[noosa hawk mad]

Re~locate would have to be better than merge or die :thumbsu:

[hawker11]

I chose merge - but it would have to be with no other club than melbourne. Don't get me wrong - I was at Glenferrie when Dicker, Scott, and Dermie were rallying the troops - and if i was an adult member I would have voted against the merger. However if push came to shove - melbourne would be the ideal suitor because of their MCG home ground and changing your name to the capital city you live in is a best case scenario. Problem is back in 1996 it was too much of melbourne, not enough hawthorn - and we havent looked back since ;)

[kirbatron]

re-locate hands down

[Mojo]

I wouldn't like to die. Probably re-locate, but it would be really hard to support a side that lived in another state! Fortunately Hawthorn will never die! We're immortal. :)

[GAMBLER]

Depends on who we merge with and how much Hawthorn would be in the club.

If push came to shove a merger with Richmond would be idealistically perfect but I can’t imagine Richmond being particularly willing to deal on our terms.

Hopefully we are never in a position where we have to decide one or the other :thumbsu:

[play2win]

die....no
merge....no
takeover....yes
re-locate......maybe

[Roughie]

Relocate. We still retain the club, and its heritage, but just adding another chapter to the story that begins in another state.

[Adelaide Hawk]

What about a fourth option? Go back to the VFL.

[Cynic]

Relocate is the only real option there.

Dead is dead.

[Heropsychodreamer]

So either we die, become Tasmania Hawks or the Melbourne Hawks... three options... i think maybe Melbourne Hawks... though i'd struggle to follow a team that wasnt named 'Hawthorn'. Tasmania Hawks would be reasonable, as its basically the same team, but we have no access to them... dying is no option... and going back to the VFL doesnt offer any interest to me, its like following Box Hill, except we may win!

[CharlieMitchell]

If push came to shove, something i doubt will ever happen and certainly hope doesnt, i would rather see us re-locate ahead of dying or merging.

[Herbs hawks]

1. Relocate (still would be bad) but a chance that your heritage and history could be retained almost completely.

I am 100% against any move out of Melbourne Period......... But would a move to another city be any different to the move we have just made from Glenferrie to Waverly?

vvvvvvvvvvvvv

2.& 3. Die and merge are almost the same thing in my book either means Hawthorn would never be Hawthorn again but a new enitity or nothing at all.

[Tonka]

I voted merge.

In a relocation I can watch Foxtel on gameday and talk about the hawks in the 80's. In a merger I can be at the G and talk about whats going to happen in the next half.

In a relocation I can't go to home finals. The footy season is all about playing finals.

In a relocation when the cup is won it goes on a plane back to its main supporters. In a merger we are the supporters than win the cup.

In a relocation any kids the family might have would be unlikely to follow the same team as the elders, because they should not be denied the opportunity to go for a local team. A merger keeps the family supporting the one club.

In a merger the team represents us and someone else pretty-much equally. In a relocation the needs of the locals necessarily outweigh the needs of the Melbourne-based supporters and we become secondary.

In a relocation we hand the team over to others in another city to represent us and carry on from us. I don't want to be carried-on from I want to play on.

I see relocation as a futile attempt to hold onto a pure version of the past. In any case I see our history as a Hawthorn and laterly an eastern Melbourne suburban football club and I don't see how another city could represent us in any way, so I see a merger as a better way to hold onto the past.

A relocation is a merger anyway, you are just merging further away from home. You merge with the new people and the new culture at the new place.

Death is the romantic option but I see no worth in that and our corpse would likely get bought by the highest bidder and our remains merged into someone else anyway.

[delirious1]

1-Relocate to perth
2-Death
3-Merge (dont kid yourselfs, when your forced to merge it is not a merge, its a take-over)

[nigelbs]

I would choose merge and remain in Melbourne, provided it was fair (though I admit mergers rarely are).

Moving elsewhere to me would see the team progressively lose it's identity, though if it had to be anywhere I would pick Tassie.

I don't know why I feel differently about Tassie, but it seems closer than Western Sydney, Gold Coast or Darwin, plus there is our long term connection through past greats.

I think Brisbane stuffed up the Fitzroy takeover big time. If only they had embraced the Fitzroy faithful from the start and worn the FFC guernsey at all Melbourne games I feel it would have eased the pain.

[HAWKS HEROES]

i would die i would hate to merge and relocation well i don't know depends where and then i would think about it but i don't want any of these things to happen really

[medusala]

fully as opposed to partial relocation?

[Carn Hawkas]

Merge

[Hawkk]

Being a Victorian living in Queensland, supporting a Victorian club is a big thing for me...its petty but it helps me in a way reaffirm that I'm a Victorian and not a Cane Toad ;)

If push came to shove I would consider a fair and equitable Wests Tigers type merger but only if we had our fair share of concessions and we were to join a club with a similar amount of success to ourselves - Melbourne and Richmond spring to mind.

Frankly both should only be looked at if all other avenues have been exhausted and the club is still in trouble.

[lethal03]

We've been tested, so far we passed!

[Roberiquez]

imagine supporting a merged team with supporters from the other team.

and furthermore....

Are veteran fitzroy supporters and brizzy bears supporters
just as tight knit/ close /united / passionate as the supporters of an unmerged club.

I find it a bit weird.

I'm trying to imagine going to the football to support my team the 'melbourne hawks' with my Dees mates who i've only seen at the footy as the supporters of 'The Enemy' team

[hawks_legends]

I havn't voted for anything because I would like if our club just stayed as we are now. I don't know why some of you are choosing re-locating ..I would hate it if we re-locate, it would be the worst thing ever for me.

[Hawkamania!]

Relocation would be the preferred option for me. At least that way we keep the Hawks persona.

[frankc]

relocation is infinitely better in my books than merger.

[Gary Shadforth]

.

Relocation to the Gold Coast would be heaven for me :D.

[Brown Blood]

Hawthorn has already faced this situation back in 1996 and we choose to fight on or die.

This was successful because we knew we had plenty of passionate supporters, the question was just converting some of them to members and getting a few white knights on board.

Sadly the kangaroos are not in this situation - they just haven't been about to recruit enough supporters over the years and then convert them into members. If you look at the finals game versus north this year for example I reckon Hawk supporters outnumbered theirs by 4:1.

So they don't have an option to fight or die because even if they had no debt they still are not in a position to generate the $5-10m extra they need per year just to be competitive.

As far as relocating I agree with Tonka. If you relocate you forever change the nature of your team - you have a new song, new name, the club physically moves, in this case over 1000km away, you only get to see them 6-8 games a year and 5 years down the track you are simply following an interstate team that has its roots in a another stat and is a quite different club to the one you loved.

Does any south melbourne supporter feel good shouting out for sydney?

And then look how long it took for them to come good - going to the gold coast is not going to mean the kangaroos are going to be instantly more successful on and off the field - and carrara is hardly a stadium fit for any afl team.

I think melbourne is in a similar situation to north - rich history, aging supporters, no cash flow - they should be looking at what is going on and know they are in the same boat.

As a result they should look to merge with north and combined they will be a real force. And as the melbourne kangaoos their supporters will not feel totally "disenfranchised" as they would if they go north and will be a least able to see their team play 16-17 weeks of the year.

[lethalselbow]

Sorry but dying or merging are loser options.

Relocating would work for me. :thumbsu:

[The Kipster]

I think the package is a no-brainer for mine....let's face it, if it was us I would say 'go for it' :thumbsu:

[Rexcellent]

well if u need to put this into perspectives, consider that fact ur are supporter in Melbourne

whould u rather ur previous club be...

Fitzroy > Brisbane Lions ?

South Melbourne > Sydney ?

or University > dead?:rolleyes:

[Brown Blood]

well if u need to put this into perspectives, consider that fact ur are supporter in Melbourne

whould u rather ur previous club be...

Fitzroy > Brisbane Lions ?

South Melbourne > Sydney ?

or University > dead?:rolleyes:

But if they merged with say melbourne they would be financially thrive on and off the field, the merged entity would be independant and members would be able to see them for 16-18 games live a year.

On the other hand if they relocate, yes they will get support but they will need it as they:

- will lose melbourne members who don't want to support the Gold Coast Kangaroos
- melbourne members that stay on will not be paying for full membership anymore as they won't be able to see more than 6 or so games a year.
- they will play at a crap ground in qld that seats about 17K and has crap amenities
- will go through a lot of turmoil and cost in moving players and officials to the gold coast and not all will want to go
- they will have their hand out to the afl for years and years to come and may never become a force

Thus there is a very real risk in moving that just about everyone is totally discounting.

[buddyruff]

The Kangaroos situation makes me wonder what Hawk fans would do if put in this position.

If we were hypothetically given those three options and HAD to choose one of them, what would you choose?

For me, death would be more honourable than watching your club merge/be relocated.

You've got 2 be kidding!! So instead of seeing the boys run around at Tasmania every 2nd week for example you'd rather see the club fold?
Any true fan would back any move to keep the club alive even if that meant merging

[philhawk]

Any true fan would back any move to keep the club alive even if that meant merging

That's your opinion - so that's fine, but what would be the difference between supporting the new team (say it was called the Tasmanian Hawks) and Essendon?

They're both not the club that I grew up supporting?

I suppose it's each to their own, really.

I suppose the players and colors would vaguely remain the same, but I just don't think (and i'm fortunate enough to know that i've never had to consider this as an adult) that i'd support the new identity with even a tenth as much passion as I would support Hawthorn.

[Brown Blood]

Isn't the option don't merge, don't relocate.

Fight on or die - it is not simply die!

HFC 1996 chose not to merge or relocate - it chose to go it alone and fight on - or die.

[Hawkk]

The next team put to the sword should be Melbourne, at worst your going to ruffle 5 supporters...at best they'll vote themselves off the planet anyway :)

[buddyruff]

That's your opinion - so that's fine, but what would be the difference between supporting the new team (say it was called the Tasmanian Hawks) and Essendon?

They're both not the club that I grew up supporting?

I suppose it's each to their own, really.

I suppose the players and colors would vaguely remain the same, but I just don't think (and i'm fortunate enough to know that i've never had to consider this as an adult) that i'd support the new identity with even a tenth as much passion as I would support Hawthorn.

umm ones called essendon n the other r the hawks? if the option was relocate or fold, id say move without a 2nd thought. buy if the question was merge or fold? well thats alot tougher question 2 answer...

[Cynic]

That's your opinion - so that's fine, but what would be the difference between supporting the new team (say it was called the Tasmanian Hawks) and Essendon?

They're both not the club that I grew up supporting?

I suppose it's each to their own, really.

I suppose the players and colors would vaguely remain the same, but I just don't think (and i'm fortunate enough to know that i've never had to consider this as an adult) that i'd support the new identity with even a tenth as much passion as I would support Hawthorn.

Utter rubbish.

You think that when people move out of home their old lives have ended and they discard everything they left behind?

Our history would remain. Our legends would remain. Hawthorn would remain.

So suddenly you'd abandon your team on the basis that you get to see them a few less times a year? Yes I can understand the passion dwindling slightly but to suggest anyone could abandon them over that is weak in my eyes.

As for the "what would be the difference between supporting the new team (say it was called the Tasmanian Hawks) and Essendon" comment actually think about how ridiculous that sounds for a moment.

All people are saying when they bitch and moan about relocation is that they won't support a team that they won't get to see as often as they would like.

[Delicate Des]

Relocation is the answer for mine.
The Roos had a chance to build when they were on top and premiers and didn't, or couldn't.
Yes, they have fanatical supporters, but taking $7 out of every$10 comes from the AFL, and family would check their budget and say"this cant continue". We have seen the results if Fitzroy and the Swan going, and to die would be to put the chance of a lot of history going into archives not to be seen unless demanded. Merge or relocate, and of these a relocation seems to best option to me.
Lots of financial support to continue from the AFL and Gold Coast Council etc, better than the slow demise we are seeing now.
In the USA, NFL franchises are sold and relocated to different cities, with considerable angst, and keeping up on the history is remarkably hard.
Go north North!!!;)

[philhawk]

Utter rubbish.

You think that when people move out of home their old lives have ended and they discard everything they left behind?

What does that have to do with supporting your club? The club I support has its roots in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, not wherever we'd be re-located..

Our history would remain. Our legends would remain. Hawthorn would remain.

History? Doubtful
Legends? Sure
Hawthorn? No

So suddenly you'd abandon your team on the basis that you get to see them a few less times a year?

Er, I live in Sydney. At best, I see Hawthorn play 3-4 times a year anyway. Attending matches makes no difference to me and my support.

Yes I can understand the passion dwindling slightly but to suggest anyone could abandon them over that is weak in my eyes.

That's your opinion and i'm not going to get involved in petty name-calling. I'll say this much, if you call it weak to 'abandon' your relocated club, by the same brush, i'd label it just as weak to be quick to jump onto the new enterprise that has little to do with the original Hawthorn.

As for the "what would be the difference between supporting the new team (say it was called the Tasmanian Hawks) and Essendon" comment actually think about how ridiculous that sounds for a moment.

Sure, i've considered and it still makes no difference.

The only similarities between the 'old' Hawthorn and the newly created relocated version would be the players from Hawthorn that play for the new club. I support the club, not the players, so it makes no difference in my eyes.

[medusala]

The next team put to the sword should be Melbourne, at worst your going to ruffle 5 supporters...at best they'll vote themselves off the planet anyway :)

Absoluley Hawkk

Get rid of the port quaffers and we will have every chance of 11 home games at the MCG so we can end our partial relocation.

[hawks a plenty]

i would fight tooth and nail to keep it the way it is but i can always move so re-locate

[hawks a plenty]

What does that have to do with supporting your club? The club I support has its roots in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, not wherever we'd be re-located..



History? Doubtful
Legends? Sure
Hawthorn? No



Er, I live in Sydney. At best, I see Hawthorn play 3-4 times a year anyway. Attending matches makes no difference to me and my support.



That's your opinion and i'm not going to get involved in petty name-calling. I'll say this much, if you call it weak to 'abandon' your relocated club, by the same brush, i'd label it just as weak to be quick to jump onto the new enterprise that has little to do with the original Hawthorn.



Sure, i've considered and it still makes no difference.

The only similarities between the 'old' Hawthorn and the newly created relocated version would be the players from Hawthorn that play for the new club. I support the club, not the players, so it makes no difference in my eyes.


Philhawk, I understand what you are saying. I was only 16 years old when the merger talks were around and i gave the money that my mum gave me for food that day in a tin, plus $100 i saved up by doing some work around the house to hawthorn. it would be devastating to relocate but I would prefer this to die or merge.

merge or die would mean loss of identity and history and also the worest for me is the memories of me going from ballarat on my own when i was young in the freezing cold to waverly and watch the brown and gold, to run out when jason dunstall kicked his 100th goal for the season or cheer and sing our song when we would win, to stick behind the club through the bad times and good, when i was in england sitting in an internet cafe and all i could do was refresh the page for 2 and half hours to keep track of the score. These things and many more would be lost for me.

yes i support the club not the players but its the players that give me these memories as well as the club, it would all be lost if we died or merged but if we re-locate i still have those memories and can look forward to the future to bring me more.

guys i hope this all makes sense as i am at work and trying to get work done at the same time but I AM PROUD AND PASSIONATE HAWK. I would want us to continue even if we were to re-locate but not through a merger.

[Roberiquez]

Philhawk, I understand what you are saying. I was only 16 years old when the merger talks were around and i gave the money that my mum gave me for food that day in a tin, plus $100 i saved up by doing some work around the house to hawthorn. it would be devastating to relocate but I would prefer this to die or merge.

merge or die would mean loss of identity and history and also the worest for me is the memories of me going from ballarat on my own when i was young in the freezing cold to waverly and watch the brown and gold, to run out when jason dunstall kicked his 100th goal for the season or cheer and sing our song when we would win, to stick behind the club through the bad times and good, when i was in england sitting in an internet cafe and all i could do was refresh the page for 2 and half hours to keep track of the score. These things and many more would be lost for me.

yes i support the club not the players but its the players that give me these memories as well as the club, it would all be lost if we died or merged but if we re-locate i still have those memories and can look forward to the future to bring me more.

guys i hope this all makes sense as i am at work and trying to get work done at the same time but I AM PROUD AND PASSIONATE HAWK. I would want us to continue even if we were to re-locate but not through a merger.

well said. Your memories of running out on the field to clap jd on the back... They are some of the best moments I have of growing up.

Hawks should remain hawthorn Hawks, but if it were a situation of move or die, I'd support the Tassie Hawks too

[GAMBLER]

I wouldn't support the 'Tassie Hawks' at all.

Like it or loathe it, people associate where you are from with the geographical location of the club you sponsor. I've got nothing against the place, but there is no way at all that I'd support a TASMANIAN based club.

We were HAWTHORN long before we were the Hawks...HAWTHORN is probably the only constant left that links us with the clubs foundations in 1902.

[shotta]

What does that have to do with supporting your club? The club I support has its roots in the eastern suburbs of Melbourne, not wherever we'd be re-located..



History? Doubtful
Legends? Sure
Hawthorn? No



Er, I live in Sydney. At best, I see Hawthorn play 3-4 times a year anyway. Attending matches makes no difference to me and my support.



That's your opinion and i'm not going to get involved in petty name-calling. I'll say this much, if you call it weak to 'abandon' your relocated club, by the same brush, i'd label it just as weak to be quick to jump onto the new enterprise that has little to do with the original Hawthorn.



Sure, i've considered and it still makes no difference.

The only similarities between the 'old' Hawthorn and the newly created relocated version would be the players from Hawthorn that play for the new club. I support the club, not the players, so it makes no difference in my eyes.

Perfectly said.