The pros and cons of North staying versus relocating.

[PumpyChowdown]

PROS

Staying:

1. It keeps existing supporters happy.
2. Er.....


Relocating:

1. The Kangaroos get to live on.
2. Debts cleared and massive financial injection from the AFL.
3. Redeveloped stadium to the tune of $300 million.
4. Entry into a market of 507,000 people in the city of the Gold Coast, and 2.8 million in South East Qld.
5. Only one other AFL team to compete with.
6. A promise to ensure the club's on-field success in the short-term via priority picks, further potential to pick up uncontracted players and a Gold Coast zone.
7. State-of-the art training facilities and an AFL-funded marketing team to promote the team.
8. Growth of the Kangaroos brand.
9. Growth of the AFL as a whole.
10. More people watching AFL on television, therefore more revenue for the AFL to promote the game and attract kids to AFL.
11. Guaranteed survival and success.
12. Massive, endless revenue stream from the Southport Sharks club and the pokies/members.
13. Good weather!!!!
14. Relocating to the fastest growing region in Australia as the sole AFL franchise.

CONS

Staying:

1. Decreased or no funding from the AFL.
2. Worst training facilities in the league.
3. No direction and no business plan.
4. No real opportunity to expand an already small supporter base.
5. Crowded market place.
6. No guarantee of survival, let alone success.
7. Stress and pressure on players and staff due to financial and off field difficulties.
8. Will not grow their brand or the game of AFL.
9. Continued financial struggles and financial loses.
10. Eventual collapse and closing of the club.

Relocation:

1. Disenfranchise life-long supporters.
2. Could struggle to attract new supporters in a new(ish) market.
3. Sunburn.

The decision seems clear and simple to me; relocation is the only option.

I do feel for the Roos supporters and I can understand your anguish, however sometimes tough decisions have to be made so the things you cherish can live on.

[Gilbert_Hodge]

A very nice summary there. I especially like the pros for staying.

[CatmanForever]

don't forget that one of the pro's for going to the GC is that the Shareholders will be bought out and the club will return to being a club where members elect the board and can vote on the big issues if need be.

[Captain Afterworld]

Pros:

* A comparative handful of people get to keep their club in Melbourne
* "Tradition"

Cons:

* Loss of a huge opportunity to grow the game and league in Queensland

[dom_105]

Pros:

* A comparative handful of people get to keep their club in Melbourne
* "Tradition"

Cons:

* Loss of a huge opportunity to grow the game and league in Queensland

North Melbourne only have the responsibility to look after their club, their members and their supporters. I don't think they will lose any sleep over the fact that their decision might have an impact on the growth of the league in Queensland

[giantroo]

Cons of relocation: Lose 140 years of history in one go because we wont be Gold Coast Kangaroos, we will be Goldcoast sharks. :thumbsd:

[PumpyChowdown]

Cons of relocation: Lose 140 years of history in one go because we wont be Gold Coast Kangaroos, we will be Goldcoast sharks. :thumbsd:

It won't be the Sharks, and if you don't relocate you're signing your own death warrant. By contrast, if you relocate, you preserve your rich history.

[Mickdog]

Thats the way I see it. Move, merge or die, that has always and will always be the only 3 answers unless of course Murdoch or Packer decide they are massive Roos fans and bail them out, very unlikely.

Why don't Roos fans realiuse it is whats best for the club? They will still get to watch them in Melbourne. They could even move or travel to the Gold Coast to watch them. Why are they being so stuborn

[giantroo]

It won't be the Sharks, and if you don't relocate you're signing your own death warrant. By contrast, if you relocate, you preserve your rich history.


I guess you didn't hear the interview with Ron Clarke!

[giantroo]

Thats the way I see it. Move, merge or die, that has always and will always be the only 3 answers unless of course Murdoch or Packer decide they are massive Roos fans and bail them out, very unlikely.

Why don't Roos fans realiuse it is whats best for the club? They will still get to watch them in Melbourne. They could even move or travel to the Gold Coast to watch them. Why are they being so stuborn


140 years of history wiped out in one go. Some of you guys are so gullable. You believe what ever that prick says in one shot. I even guess you believe he's god.


Stubborn? Once we have been given a chance to control our club, and the AFL aren't treating us like rag dolls, and if we couldn't do anything to save it, then said no to relocation, then you can call us stubborn.

[blues4flag]

Thats the way I see it. Move, merge or die, that has always and will always be the only 3 answers unless of course Murdoch or Packer decide they are massive Roos fans and bail them out, very unlikely.

Why don't Roos fans realiuse it is whats best for the club? They will still get to watch them in Melbourne. They could even move or travel to the Gold Coast to watch them. Why are they being so stuborn

Don't forget answer 4: join the VFL. :D

[DarwinRoo]

Con: Another interstate team gets to dominate due to massive concessions and Victorian clubs dont see another flag for a while.
All interstate teams in the finals and the Vic club finishes 8th. No finals at the MCG till the GF.

[giantroo]

Don't forget answer 4: join the VFL. :D


If we fail to do well here in Vic, if we are given the chance, i wouldn't mind following the NMFC in the VFL.

[PumpyChowdown]

Con: Another interstate team gets to dominate due to massive concessions and Victorian clubs dont see another flag for a while.
All interstate teams in the finals and the Vic club finishes 8th. No finals at the MCG till the GF.

For all non-Victorians that's a PRO. Remember, it's now the AUSTRALIAN Football League.

[DarwinRoo]

For all non-Victorians that's a PRO. Remember, it's now the AUSTRALIAN Football League.

Well im a Victorian and i think its bullshit that a team needs to be propped up on field.

North Melbourne got to 3rd on the ladder with its current list. Why should that same list be given priority picks and extra salary cap room?

[iwantanotherflag]

Bit scary but this sort of stuff seems to be on the cards!

1981: 12 Victorian Teams
1982: 11 Vic Teams with South Melb to Sydney
1997: 10 Vic Teams with Fitzroy merge with Brisbane
20??: 9 Vic Teams with Kangaroos to Gold Coast
20??: 8 Vic Teams with Hawthorn to Hobart
20??: 7 Vic Teams with Melbourne & Bulldogs Merger & Canberra In
20??: 6 Vic Teams with St Kilda to Sydney

Adelaide Crows, Brisbane Lions, Canberra ??, Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Essendon Bombers, Fremantle Dockers, Geelong Cats, Gold Coast Kangaroos, Hobart Hawks, Melbourne Bulldogs, Port Power, Richmond Tigers, (Sydney) Saints, Sydney Swans, West Coast Eagles

[PumpyChowdown]

Bit scary but this sort of stuff seems to be on the cards!

1981: 12 Victorian Teams
1982: 11 Vic Teams with South Melb to Sydney
1997: 10 Vic Teams with Fitzroy merge with Brisbane
20??: 9 Vic Teams with Kangaroos to Gold Coast
20??: 8 Vic Teams with Hawthorn to Hobart
20??: 7 Vic Teams with Melbourne & Bulldogs Merger & Canberra In
20??: 6 Vic Teams with St Kilda to Sydney

Adelaide Crows, Brisbane Lions, Canberra ??, Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Essendon Bombers, Fremantle Dockers, Geelong Cats, Gold Coast Kangaroos, Hobart Hawks, Melbourne Bulldogs, Port Power, Richmond Tigers, (Sydney) Saints, Sydney Swans, West Coast Eagles

Bring it on!!!!

[Rooboy 96]

Bit scary but this sort of stuff seems to be on the cards!

1981: 12 Victorian Teams
1982: 11 Vic Teams with South Melb to Sydney
1997: 10 Vic Teams with Fitzroy merge with Brisbane
20??: 9 Vic Teams with Kangaroos to Gold Coast
20??: 8 Vic Teams with Hawthorn to Hobart
20??: 7 Vic Teams with Melbourne & Bulldogs Merger & Canberra In
20??: 6 Vic Teams with St Kilda to Sydney

Adelaide Crows, Brisbane Lions, Canberra ??, Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Essendon Bombers, Fremantle Dockers, Geelong Cats, Gold Coast Kangaroos, Hobart Hawks, Melbourne Bulldogs, Port Power, Richmond Tigers, (Sydney) Saints, Sydney Swans, West Coast Eagles

AndyD (Mr7of10) has already made his intentions clear... a second team in Sydney... you can guess who??? the Tassie market wont be ready for the Hawks until 2020... and Canberra will be a bit behind that... and you have forgotten the NT... they will be wanting and demanding a team if Canberra can have one...

so there you go... with only Collingwood... Essendon... Carlton and only two maybe three of Geelong???(better not slip) Richmond???(better start winning) Melbourne???(how long will being called Melbourne save them) St Kilda???(once the proceeds of tanking has ended without a flag) well there isn't going to be a whole lot of footy played in Victoria... now there is something for the heartland to look forward to... and the interstate clubs can blow themselves as far as I am concerned...

[SweetLeftFoot]

don't forget that one of the pro's for going to the GC is that the Shareholders will be bought out and the club will return to being a club where members elect the board and can vote on the big issues if need be.

That's like saying people will be able to decide on their method of execution once they have been shot in the head.

[littleduck]

A pure business decision would say relocate asap you god damn fools whats taking you so long. However, while professional sporting clubs are required to be run as a business, the emotion for a football club remains solid. If a club is the sum total of its traditional culture and its heart and soul is its history, then the answer is no to relocation.

In my view, the emotion of the decision will ultimately outweight the business decision and North Melbourne Kangaroos AFL Football Club will not be leaving Arden St.

[Ice-Wolf]

AndyD (Mr7of10) has already made his intentions clear... a second team in Sydney... you can guess who??? the Tassie market wont be ready for the Hawks until 2020... and Canberra will be a bit behind that... and you have forgotten the NT... they will be wanting and demanding a team if Canberra can have one...

so there you go... with only Collingwood... Essendon... Carlton and only two maybe three of Geelong???(better not slip) Richmond???(better start winning) Melbourne???(how long will being called Melbourne save them) St Kilda???(once the proceeds of tanking has ended without a flag) well there isn't going to be a whole lot of footy played in Victoria... now there is something for the heartland to look forward to... and the interstate clubs can blow themselves as far as I am concerned...

By the time it gets that far the population might have increased enough for 18 teams

[Rooboy 96]

By the time it gets that far the population might have increased enough for 18 teams

with the speed AndyD (Mr7of10) is working maybe not...:D:D

[Seanason]

Bit scary but this sort of stuff seems to be on the cards!

1981: 12 Victorian Teams
1982: 11 Vic Teams with South Melb to Sydney
1997: 10 Vic Teams with Fitzroy merge with Brisbane
20??: 9 Vic Teams with Kangaroos to Gold Coast
20??: 8 Vic Teams with Hawthorn to Hobart
20??: 7 Vic Teams with Melbourne & Bulldogs Merger & Canberra In
20??: 6 Vic Teams with St Kilda to Sydney

Adelaide Crows, Brisbane Lions, Canberra ??, Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Essendon Bombers, Fremantle Dockers, Geelong Cats, Gold Coast Kangaroos, Hobart Hawks, Melbourne Bulldogs, Port Power, Richmond Tigers, (Sydney) Saints, Sydney Swans, West Coast EaglesTigers to still be in melbourne?

Other than that, F*** oath. forza the day.

If we fail to do well here in Vic, if we are given the chance, i wouldn't mind following the NMFC in the VFL.Exactly the mentality that some people need. Instead of relocating and losing the identity, this could be a key option. Then when they dominate the VFL, move back up.

[pazza]

Pros of staying:

* A guaranteed level of sponsorship dollars from current major sponsors Mazda and Primus. Both sponsors have publicly indicated that they DO NOT support the move North..their sponsorship is in effect in doubt IF they move;

* A chance to re-boost membership to 30000, which would be the minimum membership required. Their performance in 2007 will lead to at least a few members coming on board over summer, as they were one of the exciting teams of the season.

Cons of staying:

* Finding 8000 more members to start with and then boosting that.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pros of relocation:

* The Gold Coast as a marketing tool.

Cons of relocation:

* Population up there loves Rugby League and nothing else;
* No industry to provide sponsorship dollars.

Beat those facts Pumpy.

[Peacock]

Pros:

The players won't have 75% of the crowd wanting them to lose when they play a home game.

[babyg]

Cons of relocating:
- no one on the Gold Coast caring
- 20,000 tv ratings

[grayham]

Pros of staying:

* A guaranteed level of sponsorship dollars from current major sponsors Mazda and Primus. Both sponsors have publicly indicated that they DO NOT support the move North..their sponsorship is in effect in doubt IF they move;

Mazda have the smallest sponsorship deal of any club. The GC roos would instantly attract a larger national sponsor from day 1 due to increased TV exposure in QLD and VIC.



* A chance to re-boost membership to 30000, which would be the minimum membership required. Their performance in 2007 will lead to at least a few members coming on board over summer, as they were one of the exciting teams of the season.

30,000 is a pipe dream. As has been proven in the other thread they have 15000 hard core supporters tops.


Cons of staying:

* Finding 8000 more members to start with and then boosting that.

The biggest con is they will be forced to merge with the sharks, ala fitzroy. I bet the roys wished they'd moved to brisbane first.

--------------------------------------------------------------------

Pros of relocation:

* The Gold Coast as a marketing tool.

What does that mean?


Cons of relocation:

* Population up there loves Rugby League and nothing else;

It may suprise you but AFL is shown in prime time in GC much more than it is in Brisbane

* No industry to provide sponsorship dollars.

The days of local sponsors are long gone. National and multinational companies sponsor AFL teams.

Beat those facts Pumpy.
Beaten.

[Limerick]

PROS

Staying:

1. It keeps existing supporters happy. The NMFC will grow significantly if it commits to Melbourne. The threat of relocation over the last 8+ years is the major cause of our demise aided by an incompetent Board.
2. Er.....


Relocating:

1. The Kangaroos get to live on. We are the NMFC. The move to the Kangaroos was another stupid decision by the Club Board.
2. Debts cleared and massive financial injection from the AFL. Yes debt cleared but sufficient ongoing funding has yet to be proposed in writing.
3. Redeveloped stadium to the tune of $300 million. Like Telstra which is hampering the dvelopment of the smaller Melbourne clubs. Geelong make more from their smaller stadium. Again the AFL is wavering on this promise.
4. Entry into a market of 507,000 people in the city of the Gold Coast, and 2.8 million in South East Qld. The 507k is within the 2.8m and this is struggling to produce 20k supporters for the most successful club in the history of the AFL.
5. Only one other AFL team to compete with. Its a national competition in which they would continue to compete against 15 clubs both on and off the field.
6. A promise to ensure the club's on-field success in the short-term via priority picks, further potential to pick up uncontracted players and a Gold Coast zone. This will be challenged by the other 15 clubs.
7. State-of-the art training facilities and an AFL-funded marketing team to promote the team. Arden St will be lifted to a reasonable standard and remember we won 2 premierships in worse facilities than we have now.
8. Growth of the Kangaroos brand. We are North Melbourne
9. Growth of the AFL as a whole. Not an individual clubs concern.
10. More people watching AFL on television, therefore more revenue for the AFL to promote the game and attract kids to AFL.
The initial loss over the first 5 years will outweigh the gains.
11. Guaranteed survival and success. Not of the NMFC.
12. Massive, endless revenue stream from the Southport Sharks club and the pokies/members. This implies a merger with the Southport Sharks which is worse than relocation.The Southport sharks have 50k $5 members, but will they fork out $200 pa to go to the footy. 2007 didn't bear this out.
13. Good weather!!!! Not for football. Too hot during the day and slippery at night.
14. Relocating to the fastest growing region in Australia as the sole AFL franchise. The fastest growing region is the weakest argument of all. If 1.7m Brisbane population can't fully support an AFL team now, why would you think that 900k population in a nearby location will support an AFL team in 2026.

CONS

Staying:

1. Decreased or no funding from the AFL. To survive in Melbourne we will need a Board and administration upheaval. It appears that one has to hit rock bottom to regenerate.
2. Worst training facilities in the league. Will be in the average when Arden St is upgraded.
3. No direction and no business plan. Agree but this will change.
4. No real opportunity to expand an already small supporter base. The market is Australia not Melbourne. But we do need to get better in this area.
5. Crowded market place. Repeat of point 5.
6. No guarantee of survival, let alone success. In reality no one is guaranteed survival, you have to work at it. Given our poor facilities and management to date we have out performed most Melbourne based teams over the last 15 years.
7. Stress and pressure on players and staff due to financial and off field difficulties. No more so than any other team
8. Will not grow their brand or the game of AFL. Repeat of point 5.
9. Continued financial struggles and financial loses. No plans are being developed.
10. Eventual collapse and closing of the club. Not if we address our problems.

Relocation:

1. Disenfranchise life-long supporters. Some where between 50% - 70% will walk away from AFL as passionate members.
2. Could struggle to attract new supporters in a new(ish) market. GC hasn't shown any real evidence of a large supporter base.
3. Sunburn. They'll play most games at night.

The decision seems clear and simple to me; relocation is the only option.
As a passionate life long supporter I would rather fight it out in melbourne even if eventually we died.
I do feel for the Roos supporters and I can understand your anguish, however sometimes tough decisions have to be made so the things you cherish can live on. I won't cherish a Gold Coast Sharks team
playing in a blue & white jumper, nor a Gold Coast Kangaroos team with the NMFC on the back of its collar.

I can understand non North supporters looking at this dispassionately but football is about passion and tribal links.

[Seanason]

i thought it was pretty obvious that Primus and Mazda were just staying on to keep Supporters happy in the hope they would go out of their way to buy their products.

[SweetLeftFoot]

The players won't have 75% of the crowd wanting them to lose when they play a home game.

Mate, we are talking about North here, not Carlton.

[Diamond Joe]

I won't cherish a Gold Coast Sharks team
playing in a blue & white jumper, nor a Gold Coast Kangaroos team with the NMFC on the back of its collar.

I can understand non North supporters looking at this dispassionately but football is about passion and tribal links.

Excellent post. :thumbsu:

[ultimate hater]

Excellent post. :thumbsu:

Not really..

People are saying "give us a chance and then if we fail we'll move"..

the thing is, if you couldn't generate lots of $$ during the time of carey and the like, you'll find it hard to make $$ now..

EDIT: I've also read about people saying the "members will come back".. you didn't even have many during the "glory years".. and its far far far from that now..

The AFL has clearly stated they want to make a new team on the Gold Coast whether or not North head there..

If they don't go, they'll continue to struggle here in VIC while another team gets introduced and handed $$ from the AFL and will most likely flourish.. this will bring the team count up to 17 teams, the AFL will eventually want to bring that back down to an even number of teams.. and guess who would be first to get the chop.. the struggling club who refused to make good of an opportunity to save it..

North have to go, and I suspect they will.. Blind Freddy could see how much this move is needed..

Forget about seeing NMFC on the back of a Gold Coast Kangeroos jumper, because in 4-5 years you might not see it at all..

[Papa G]

Not really..

People are saying "give us a chance and then if we fail we'll move"..

the thing is, if you couldn't generate lots of $$ during the time of carey and the like, you'll find it hard to make $$ now..

The AFL has clearly stated they want to make a new team on the Gold Coast whether or not North head there..

If they don't go, they'll continue to struggle here in VIC while another team gets introduced and handed $$ from the AFL and will most likely flourish.. this will bring the team count up to 17 teams, the AFL will eventually want to bring that back down to an even number of teams.. and guess who would be first to get the chop.. the struggling club who refused to make good of an opportunity to save it..

North have to go, and I suspect they will.. Blind Freddy could see how much this move is needed..

Forget about seeing NMFC on the back of a Gold Coast Kangeroos jumper, because in 4-5 years you might not see it at all..

Excellent Post :thumbsu:

[moomba]

the thing is, if you couldn't generate lots of $$ during the time of carey and the like, you'll find it hard to make $$ now..

We did generate lots of $$, both for the league (and all of the clubs in it) and for the club. But a lot of the kids that started supporting the roos in the Carey era are just reaching their 20's now, getting full time jobs and starting to put into the club. The problem with a lot of people is that they think that if they haven't seen results in a year or two then a project has failed. When it comes to Aussie Rules, it just short term thinking, and has probably been responsible for more than a few bad decisions made at board level at NMFC.

The AFL has clearly stated they want to make a new team on the Gold Coast whether or not North head there..

Good, let them. I'm willing to bet they are lying though.

If they don't go, they'll continue to struggle here in VIC while another team gets introduced and handed $$ from the AFL and will most likely flourish.. this will bring the team count up to 17 teams, the AFL will eventually want to bring that back down to an even number of teams.. and guess who would be first to get the chop.. the struggling club who refused to make good of an opportunity to save it..

I've never been afraid of a struggle, and if it turns out that we don't make it through the struggle then I'd be much happier than if we bent over to the AFL offering their riches and guaranteed success.

North have to go, and I suspect they will.. Blind Freddy could see how much this move is needed..

Tell me how the Gold Coast can support a team with a population less than a third the size of Brisbane. After one of the best eras any AFL club has seen in decades, they had 15,000 local members last season. So why exactly is this move needed? TV revenue? Corporate sponsorship? Are you going to mention what happens on the green stuff any time soon or is that not relevant to your discussion on football?

Forget about seeing NMFC on the back of a Gold Coast Kangeroos jumper, because in 4-5 years you might not see it at all..

Having NMFC on the back of someones elses shirt doesn't make it my club.

[Limerick]

Not really..

People are saying "give us a chance and then if we fail we'll move"..
the thing is, if you couldn't generate lots of $$ during the time of carey and the like, you'll find it hard to make $$ now..

EDIT: I've also read about people saying the "members will come back".. you didn't even have many during the "glory years".. and its far far far from that now.. The AFL has clearly stated they want to make a new team on the Gold Coast whether or not North head there..

If they don't go, they'll continue to struggle here in VIC while another team gets introduced and handed $$ from the AFL and will most likely flourish.. this will bring the team count up to 17 teams, the AFL will eventually want to bring that back down to an even number of teams.. and guess who would be first to get the chop.. the struggling club who refused to make good of an opportunity to save it..

North have to go, and I suspect they will.. Blind Freddy could see how much this move is needed.. Forget about seeing NMFC on the back of a Gold Coast Kangeroos jumper, because in 4-5 years you might not see it at all..

Lets deal in facts. we were 9th on the membership table in 1997 with respectable revenue. Our situation has arisen through incompetent
management e.g
(i) dropping the Nort Melbourne name,
(ii) playing games all over the place (Sydney - thwarted by the Sydney FC, ACT - should have stayed there similar to Hawthorn, and the GC), and
(iii) failed business ventures - Casey & Broadmeadows. This point is the main reason we are in debt.

The key to our future success will be achieved by
(i) removing the shareholder structure and making the club answerable to its members,
(ii) getting the right people on the Board and in management,
(iii) changing our name of the team back to North Melbourne, and setting a clear positive view of being a Melbourne based club.

Strong moves are being made along these lines.

If the AFL wants a team on te GC in 2010 let it issue the 17th licence but be aware that this will require that each of the existing 16 teams will be required to release at least one of their top 18 players to the new team i.e. a limited free agency arrangement will be instituted to establish the GC Sharks. This will be for the good of the AFL competition.

[Papa G]

[quote=Limerick;9483351]Lets deal in facts. we were 9th on the membership table in 1997 with respectable revenue. Our situation has arisen through incompetent
management e.g
(i) dropping the Nort Melbourne name,
(ii) playing games all over the place (Sydney - thwarted by the Sydney FC, ACT - should have stayed there similar to Hawthorn, and the GC), and
(iii) failed business ventures - Casey & Broadmeadows. This point is the main reason we are in debt.

If everything was hunky dory why would you even go down those paths? Fact. North Melbourne were in financial strife even in/post the golden years of the 90's and changing your name back to North Melbourne and not selling games interstate (which seems to represent a large proportion of you income) will not change that. You guys have tried everything under the sun and it hasn't really worked. All North Melbourne supporters saw this day coming, yet nothing leading up to this point has suggested you can turn things around in Melbourne. All you hear are excuses and blame, or if we do this or we do that it will be different this time. It won't.

[moomba]

If everything was hunky dory why would you even go down those paths? Fact. North Melbourne were in financial strife even in/post the golden years of the 90's and changing your name back to North Melbourne and not selling games interstate (which seems to represent a large proportion of you income) will not change that. You guys have tried everything under the sun and it hasn't really worked.

If we weren't an innovative club we wouldn't have things like Friday night footy (one of the biggest revenue earners for the AFL and the clubs that are lucky enough to play in more than the odd one or two).

We may well always struggle, we may well always have a need to try different things to try and regain that edge. But that is imminently preferable to me than any AFL guaranteed success that is on offer.

All North Melbourne supporters saw this day coming, yet nothing leading up to this point has suggested you can turn things around in Melbourne. All you hear are excuses and blame, or if we do this or we do that it will be different this time. It won't.

I think you'll find most North supporters think very different to the generalisation that you offer. But then I don't suspect you know much about North supporters at all.

[The Teflon Dean]

PROS

Staying:

1. It keeps existing supporters happy.
2. Er.....


Relocating:

1. The Kangaroos get to live on.
2. Debts cleared and massive financial injection from the AFL.
3. Redeveloped stadium to the tune of $300 million.
4. Entry into a market of 507,000 people in the city of the Gold Coast, and 2.8 million in South East Qld.
5. Only one other AFL team to compete with.
6. A promise to ensure the club's on-field success in the short-term via priority picks, further potential to pick up uncontracted players and a Gold Coast zone.
7. State-of-the art training facilities and an AFL-funded marketing team to promote the team.
8. Growth of the Kangaroos brand.
9. Growth of the AFL as a whole.
10. More people watching AFL on television, therefore more revenue for the AFL to promote the game and attract kids to AFL.
11. Guaranteed survival and success.
12. Massive, endless revenue stream from the Southport Sharks club and the pokies/members.
13. Good weather!!!!
14. Relocating to the fastest growing region in Australia as the sole AFL franchise.

CONS

Staying:

1. Decreased or no funding from the AFL.
2. Worst training facilities in the league.
3. No direction and no business plan.
4. No real opportunity to expand an already small supporter base.
5. Crowded market place.
6. No guarantee of survival, let alone success.
7. Stress and pressure on players and staff due to financial and off field difficulties.
8. Will not grow their brand or the game of AFL.
9. Continued financial struggles and financial loses.
10. Eventual collapse and closing of the club.

Relocation:

1. Disenfranchise life-long supporters.
2. Could struggle to attract new supporters in a new(ish) market.
3. Sunburn.

The decision seems clear and simple to me; relocation is the only option.

I do feel for the Roos supporters and I can understand your anguish, however sometimes tough decisions have to be made so the things you cherish can live on.

Fair and balanced.:thumbsu:

Moron.:rolleyes:

[ultimate hater]

We did generate lots of $$, both for the league (and all of the clubs in it) and for the club. But a lot of the kids that started supporting the roos in the Carey era are just reaching their 20's now, getting full time jobs and starting to put into the club. The problem with a lot of people is that they think that if they haven't seen results in a year or two then a project has failed. When it comes to Aussie Rules, it just short term thinking, and has probably been responsible for more than a few bad decisions made at board level at NMFC.



Good, let them. I'm willing to bet they are lying though.



I've never been afraid of a struggle, and if it turns out that we don't make it through the struggle then I'd be much happier than if we bent over to the AFL offering their riches and guaranteed success.



Tell me how the Gold Coast can support a team with a population less than a third the size of Brisbane. After one of the best eras any AFL club has seen in decades, they had 15,000 local members last season. So why exactly is this move needed? TV revenue? Corporate sponsorship? Are you going to mention what happens on the green stuff any time soon or is that not relevant to your discussion on football?



Having NMFC on the back of someones elses shirt doesn't make it my club.


Ok.. well the current Southport Sharks have a membership base of 40,000.. they currently did a redevlopement of their facilities for $5mil..

if you think there is no support for AFL there you are sorely mistaken..

and you are a little mistaken saying you had good $$ back in the 90's.. you were doing "average" and it was the most exciting time for the club and yet you still didn't have that big of a membership base... stop trying to pin the hopes of the membership base growing because of young guys "just starting work" that will join up.. you have to be kidding me.. you can't make up fictional unsubstantiated claims with no factual evidence of something like that happening.. for the last 10 years your club has struggled for memebers severly, that isn't going to change.. and if it does for one year it will be out of sympathy, not actually "support" for NMFC..

i tell you what, if i was a player, i'd love nothing more than to be living on the gold coast and getting paid $$ to play footy.. what a life!

[Papa G]

If we weren't an innovative club we wouldn't have things like Friday night footy (one of the biggest revenue earners for the AFL and the clubs that are lucky enough to play in more than the odd one or two).



No, if North Melbourne weren't around, Friday night football would never have been thought of:rolleyes:

[The Teflon Dean]

No, if North Melbourne weren't around, Friday night football would never have been thought of:rolleyes:

Well, I don't remember anyone else having the balls to do it at the time.:rolleyes:

[Doctor Jolly]

Well, I don't remember anyone else having the balls to do it at the time.:rolleyes:

So let me get this straight. Are you saying we still wouldnt be playing FNF if North didnt do it first ?

YES/NO

[ultimate hater]

Well, I don't remember anyone else having the balls to do it at the time.:rolleyes:


yeah other clubs were too busy looking after their own problems so they don't end up moving to the Gold Coast..


ouch..

[walhawk]

Southport will never get the 17th licence if one is issued. Too many people in the Qld Aussie Rules community hate them - they are the Port / Collingwood of the QAFL.
And they have 40,000 members that pay $5 so they can get a chicken parmagania and play the pokies. The football club would have a few hundred supporters.
It like me signing in as a temporary member of the Rooty Hill RSL and them counting me as a member.

GC will get a brand new club.

As an aside, I do support 17th & 18th clubs (if no-one relocates) in GC & West Sydney. Did you know that the 10,000 seat stadium they are building in in WS will be located in Rooty Hill.
Rooty Hill Rooters anyone?

[The Teflon Dean]

So let me get this straight. Are you saying we still wouldnt be playing FNF if North didnt do it first ?

YES/NO

I am aware that you live your life in the fantasy realm of make believe, but I have to inform you that there is no straight Yes/No answer to a hypothetical situation.

[DynamoUltra]

Well im a Victorian and i think its bullshit that a team needs to be propped up on field.

North Melbourne got to 3rd on the ladder with its current list. Why should that same list be given priority picks and extra salary cap room?

Why should that team be given extra funds to stay alive?

[The Teflon Dean]

Why should that team be given extra funds to stay alive?

What extra funds are they given to "stay alive"?

Please inform me of this "stay alive" fund that North are getting?

[moomba]

Ok.. well the current Southport Sharks have a membership base of 40,000.. they currently did a redevlopement of their facilities for $5mil..

if you think there is no support for AFL there you are sorely mistaken..

How many of those are interested in footy as opposed to interested in the pokies and cheap early diner specials. And how much of the $5m raised was from footy as opposed to pokies?

and you are a little mistaken saying you had good $$ back in the 90's.. you were doing "average" and it was the most exciting time for the club and yet you still didn't have that big of a membership base... stop trying to pin the hopes of the membership base growing because of young guys "just starting work" that will join up.. you have to be kidding me.. you can't make up fictional unsubstantiated claims with no factual evidence of something like that happening.. for the last 10 years your club has struggled for memebers severly, that isn't going to change.. and if it does for one year it will be out of sympathy, not actually "support" for NMFC..

You'll find that our membership has risen consistently since the 90's. I still remember when people were saying that VFL clubs needed to increase membership to 8k to survive. And I'm not that old. And I didn't say we had good $$ in the era, I said we made good money for the club and league on the back of the quality of our team. And I've said nothing that needs factual evidence, it's all just common sense.

i tell you what, if i was a player, i'd love nothing more than to be living on the gold coast and getting paid $$ to play footy.. what a life!

I'd rather play in cold, wet Melbourne in a decent stadium that holds more than 12k people who actually know something about the game and the club that I play for. I can just imagine half the crowd up there leaving half way through the final quarter of a close game becuase it's eyes down over at the bingo hall, or the chef has started cooking up those early diner specials.

[GoHawkers]

Bit scary but this sort of stuff seems to be on the cards!

1981: 12 Victorian Teams
1982: 11 Vic Teams with South Melb to Sydney
1997: 10 Vic Teams with Fitzroy merge with Brisbane
20??: 9 Vic Teams with Kangaroos to Gold Coast
20??: 8 Vic Teams with Hawthorn to Hobart
20??: 7 Vic Teams with Melbourne & Bulldogs Merger & Canberra In
20??: 6 Vic Teams with St Kilda to Sydney

Adelaide Crows, Brisbane Lions, Canberra ??, Carlton Blues, Collingwood Magpies, Essendon Bombers, Fremantle Dockers, Geelong Cats, Gold Coast Kangaroos, Hobart Hawks, Melbourne Bulldogs, Port Power, Richmond Tigers, (Sydney) Saints, Sydney Swans, West Coast Eagles


You're not far wrong there.

I reckon it will eventually get down to 6 clubs in Victoria.

Which is fair enough really, it is AFL after all. There needs to be more clubs spread out in other states.

I don't believe a club looses its heritage when it moves, it does if it merges though, which is why I am more for relocations rather than merges. I believe the Swans still have their heritage, that showed especially when they won the Grand Final. The Lions are a bit different as they got caught in a double whammy, merge and relocation, that was really sad and I hope it doesn't happen to the Kangaroos. It was great seeing the Lions play in Melbourne in the old Fitzroy guernsey though, hope they continue that.

[Rooboy 96]

You're not far wrong there.

I reckon it will eventually get down to 6 clubs in Victoria.

Which is fair enough really, it is AFL after all. There needs to be more clubs spread out in other states.

I don't believe a club looses its heritage when it moves, it does if it merges though, which is why I am more for relocations rather than merges. I believe the Swans still have their heritage, that showed especially when they won the Grand Final. The Lions are a bit different as they got caught in a double whammy, merge and relocation, that was really sad and I hope it doesn't happen to the Kangaroos. It was great seeing the Lions play in Melbourne in the old Fitzroy guernsey though, hope they continue that.


guess what AndyD has a cool $100,000,000 to give to any club that shoots off to the Gold Coast... I suggest you ring Jeffrey and tell him you want Hawthorn in on that... :D:D

[Rooboy 96]

yeah other clubs were too busy looking after their own problems

not all of us can pay our only Premiership Coach 13 cents in the dollar... but then like you say... some of us were too busy winning a few premierships during this time...

[Moo]

700K people by 2021 with a very high proportion (est 16%) under the age of 14 is what the AFL has their eye on. As a comparrison I think the projection for Melb is around 9% under the age of 14

The GC team will need to be propped up for a decade or so ....AFL would consider that small biccies.

[SweetLeftFoot]

700K people by 2021 with a very high proportion (est 16%) under the age of 14 is what the AFL has their eye on. As a comparrison I think the projection for Melb is around 9% under the age of 14

The GC team will need to be propped up for a decade or so ....AFL would consider that small biccies.

Projections.

The war in Iraq was projected to go very well too.

[Moo]

Projections.

The war in Iraq was projected to go very well too.

Stay on your own club board if you do not want to discuss or add to a legitimate debate. I never said the Roos to move, I am just throwing up figures on the population explosion that is and will continue to be on the GC.

There is no doubt these projections are about on the money ...it only allows for a 200K increase over the next 14 years which is very do-able. The figures could be as much a debate for a 17th club as for your relocation.

Now whether they will be attracted to AFL is questionable - however to just throw rocks at anything that you might think is anti-roo is a questionable tactic.

[moomba]

700K people by 2021 with a very high proportion (est 16%) under the age of 14 is what the AFL has their eye on.

So in 15 years they will have less than 40% of Brisbanes current population (local membership 16k). And of those 700k in 2021, there will be some that are already interested, and some that never will be.

If the AFL are relying on population alone, they have cocked up big time.

[ultimate hater]

How many of those are interested in footy as opposed to interested in the pokies and cheap early diner specials. And how much of the $5m raised was from footy as opposed to pokies?



You'll find that our membership has risen consistently since the 90's. I still remember when people were saying that VFL clubs needed to increase membership to 8k to survive. And I'm not that old. And I didn't say we had good $$ in the era, I said we made good money for the club and league on the back of the quality of our team. And I've said nothing that needs factual evidence, it's all just common sense.



I'd rather play in cold, wet Melbourne in a decent stadium that holds more than 12k people who actually know something about the game and the club that I play for. I can just imagine half the crowd up there leaving half way through the final quarter of a close game becuase it's eyes down over at the bingo hall, or the chef has started cooking up those early diner specials.


I don't know why.. seeing as you currently wouldn't be able to even fill a 12k seat stadium anyway!!

and so what if the 40,000 memebers are there for a parma... at least you'll have a cash flow, something you're probably not use to, heres a tip.. its a GOOD thing... and if you have that base memebership being so large, it would only grow from there, and being the only AFL club in the area, im 100% sure people would rather watch an AFL standard game than AFLQ, because they wouldn't get to see such quality players running around and would jump at the chance too..

[ultimate hater]

Southport will never get the 17th licence if one is issued. Too many people in the Qld Aussie Rules community hate them - they are the Port / Collingwood of the QAFL.
And they have 40,000 members that pay $5 so they can get a chicken parmagania and play the pokies. The football club would have a few hundred supporters.
It like me signing in as a temporary member of the Rooty Hill RSL and them counting me as a member.

GC will get a brand new club.

As an aside, I do support 17th & 18th clubs (if no-one relocates) in GC & West Sydney. Did you know that the 10,000 seat stadium they are building in in WS will be located in Rooty Hill.
Rooty Hill Rooters anyone?

So what!?! and collingwood and port are "powerhouses" of the AFL... Thats a compliment really..

As much as people hate collingwood and port, there is no denying the fact they are very strong clubs.. north could only dream of that happening to them...

[ultimate hater]

not all of us can pay our only Premiership Coach 13 cents in the dollar... but then like you say... some of us were too busy winning a few premierships during this time...


Bit sour... I know we have f-all silverware in the cabinet.. but at least we aren't falling to pieces... sure our board has changed, but thats only because we have so many good people that are passionate about our club.. hence why we are a stable club $$ wise even though we don't have much silver gear... jealousy's a curse....

[moomba]

I don't know why.. seeing as you currently wouldn't be able to even fill a 12k seat stadium anyway!!

34k+ average for our Melbourne home games last season thicko.

[moomba]

Bit sour... I know we have f-all silverware in the cabinet.. but at least we aren't falling to pieces... sure our board has changed, but thats only because we have so many good people that are passionate about our club.. hence why we are a stable club $$ wise even though we don't have much silver gear... jealousy's a curse....

Are you saying that we should be jealous of a club with three less premierships and a few more $$ in the bank?

You don't really get sport do you?

[ultimate hater]

Are you saying that we should be jealous of a club with three less premierships and a few more $$ in the bank?

You don't really get sport do you?

na, you should be jealous of a club that won't be wearing STKFC on the back of their jumpers...

[moomba]

na, you should be jealous of a club that won't be wearing STKFC on the back of their jumpers...


I have no idea what thats supposed to mean. Are you a bit confused?

[Rick18]

at least we aren't falling to pieces

Surely you're not serious?

[ultimate hater]

I have no idea what thats supposed to mean. Are you a bit confused?

it means st kilda football club won't be dissolved and only remembered by a few letters on the back of a jumper, i.e. FFC, SMFC, BBFC... and soon another addition too.. NMFC...

[ultimate hater]

Surely you're not serious?

are you??

If you stay in melbourne you'll end up like fitzroy...

you are going to become the Gold Coast Kangeroos and NMFC will cease to exist... i.e. South Melbourne...

[moomba]

it means st kilda football club won't be dissolved and only remembered by a few letters on the back of a jumper, i.e. FFC, SMFC, BBFC... and soon another addition too.. NMFC...

Ah I get it now, you were just being a w@nker.

[ultimate hater]

Ah I get it now, you were just being a w@nker.

have a sook.. don't give it if you can't cop it..

[moomba]

have a sook.. don't give it if you can't cop it..

Not having a sook at all, just think you could at least show a bit more imagination with your trolling. You're like a kid in the playground thinking that if you say something often enough sooner or later someone will believe you.

[Rooboy 96]

Ah I get it now, you were just being a w@nker.

right again mate... :D:D

[Rooboy 96]

Not having a sook at all, just think you could at least show a bit more imagination with your trolling. You're like a kid in the playground thinking that if you say something often enough sooner or later someone will believe you.

now that ain't nice... this bloke ain't USC... surely not... :D:D how ugly is he/she???

[ultimate hater]

Not having a sook at all, just think you could at least show a bit more imagination with your trolling. You're like a kid in the playground thinking that if you say something often enough sooner or later someone will believe you.

na buddy.. you are sooking.. i'm not trolling at all, i've put good reasons forward as to why i believe NMFC should move and will move and all you have to come back with is saying "w@nker" and your virtual buddies come on to back you up and say "yeah what he said".. because they don't have the intellectual capacity to put forward a good argument...

I obviously have a good argument as does the AFL, hence why your board came out of that meeting the other day undecided untill december... if it was that clear cut that you were staying they would have announced it right away... you can't argue with that though can you...

[Rooboy 96]

na buddy.. you are sooking.. i'm not trolling at all, i've put good reasons forward as to why i believe NMFC should move and will move and all you have to come back with is saying "w@nker" and your virtual buddies come on to back you up and say "yeah what he said".. because they don't have the intellectual capacity to put forward a good argument...

or we just can't be bothered talking rationally to fools like you...


I obviously have a good argument as does the AFL, hence why your board came out of that meeting the other day undecided untill december... if it was that clear cut that you were staying they would have announced it right away... you can't argue with that though can you...

if we do not show due diligence the league will be even more unhappy and nasty when we eventually say f#$k off... and take your offer with you... :D:D but like I said we just can't be bothered talking rationally to fools like you... so just ignore that...

[ultimate hater]

or we just can't be bothered talking rationally to fools like you...




if we do not show due diligence the league will be even more unhappy and nasty when we eventually say f#$k off... and take your offer with you... :D:D but like I said we just can't be bothered talking rationally to fools like you... so just ignore that...


thats why when JB spoke right before this meeting, he said "one way or another I hope a decision is made today"... and look.. its been pushed back to december..

it has nothing to do with "due diligence"... you think the AFL wouldn't prefer you to say straight away that way they can move on to other plans, and the fact your club is at a stale mate until a decision is made?

if your board obviously think there is a strong enough possibility for you to move north to delay making a decision, then i think you should wake up and smell the roses... its not all one-way traffic like you think (wish)..


EDIT: also, nice comeback with the "can't be bothered talking rationally to fools like you.." you obviously have nothing rational to say..

[moomba]

na buddy.. you are sooking.. i'm not trolling at all, i've put good reasons forward as to why i believe NMFC should move and will move and all you have to come back with is saying "w@nker" and your virtual buddies come on to back you up and say "yeah what he said".. because they don't have the intellectual capacity to put forward a good argument...

As RB96 says, you're just not worth debating on the isssue, you haven't actually raised any points as far as I can see other than just repeating "it is going to happen, it is going to happen" over and over again. At least others are showing a bit of imagination with their trolls.

I obviously have a good argument as does the AFL, hence why your board came out of that meeting the other day undecided untill december... if it was that clear cut that you were staying they would have announced it right away... you can't argue with that though can you...

Why don't you share you're argument again, I must have missed it the first time around.

[ultimate hater]

As RB96 says, you're just not worth debating on the isssue, you haven't actually raised any points as far as I can see other than just repeating "it is going to happen, it is going to happen" over and over again. At least others are showing a bit of imagination with their trolls.



Why don't you share you're argument again, I must have missed it the first time around.


you've got to be kidding don't you??? very very short memory.. oh wait, you can click on previous pages on this thread... how wonderful.. try page 3 for starters..

all your comebacks are just "we are north melbourne, not gold coast kangaroos"... and all this talk about heritage etc etc, but unfortunately thats not what keeps clubs ticking over.. its all about the bottom line, which north can't seem to get above...

[moomba]

you've got to be kidding don't you??? very very short memory.. oh wait, you can click on previous pages on this thread... how wonderful.. try page 3 for starters..

No, not a short memory. Just haven't bothered reading anything of yours before today.

all your comebacks are just "we are north melbourne, not gold coast kangaroos"... and all this talk about heritage etc etc, but unfortunately thats not what keeps clubs ticking over.. its all about the bottom line, which north can't seem to get above...

I've rarely used that comeback, and you will find that I am not one of those that would refuse to support a relocation (if managed properly and as a last resort). But this doesn't meet that criteria, and I've discussed any number of reasons why I believe that to be the case. And it's not all about the bottom line, it's all about the sport of Aussie Rules football, something so many people appear to have forgotten.

[Rooboy 96]

EDIT: also, nice comeback with the "can't be bothered talking rationally to fools like you.." you obviously have nothing rational to say..


was that you??? well there you go... just wasting my time talking to you... Cheers Rooboy 96... :D:D

[ultimate hater]

was that you??? well there you go... just wasting my time talking to you... Cheers Rooboy 96... :D:D


if you're going to be a twit, then enjoy this thread..

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=397032

[jont2021]

Ok.. well the current Southport Sharks have a membership base of 40,000.

You have no idea do you. If you want to enter a club in QLD, NSW and the ACT then you need to be a member - any place that has pokies (which Southport has) you need to be a member to just go in there and have a beer, food etc. This membership costs $5-$10 a year.

The Ainslie footy club in Canberra has over 40,000 members - so do other clubs in Canberra. That doesn't mean those members are Aussie Rules supporters, it just means that those people pay that membership so they can go to that club to have their food etc.

Using Southports membership numbers is just naive. Maybe you should do a bit more research into this issue.

[ultimate hater]

You have no idea do you. If you want to enter a club in QLD, NSW and the ACT then you need to be a member - any place that has pokies (which Southport has) you need to be a member to just go in there and have a beer, food etc. This membership costs $5-$10 a year.

The Ainslie footy club in Canberra has over 40,000 members - so do other clubs in Canberra. That doesn't mean those members are Aussie Rules supporters, it just means that those people pay that membership so they can go to that club to have their food etc.

Using Southports membership numbers is just naive. Maybe you should do a bit more research into this issue.

obviously you have no idea.. The membership base almost guarntee's cash flow, which is obviously a new thing to you.. hard to comprehend i know..

they just did a $5mil reno and a few years back did a $6mil reno... granted most of it is from the pokies, but at least you have people coming through the doors and it would draw more people's attention to the football if they had a 1st class team on the park..

the current stadium can only hold something like 12,000.. so you don't need all the members to be footy fanatics anyway!!

so it is you who is misinformed you muppet..

[jont2021]

obviously you have no idea.. The membership base almost guarntee's cash flow, which is obviously a new thing to you.. hard to comprehend i know..

they just did a $5mil reno and a few years back did a $6mil reno... granted most of it is from the pokies, but at least you have people coming through the doors and it would draw more people's attention to the football if they had a 1st class team on the park..

the current stadium can only hold something like 12,000.. so you don't need all the members to be footy fanatics anyway!!

so it is you who is misinformed you muppet..

So so naive .... see it costs just a little bit more to run an AFL club than it does to run one in the QLD comp so hence the membership fees need to be a tad higher to help with this. So with that in mind, do you think that having 40,000 members paying a whopping $10 membership fee is going to help the club or do you reckon the club will up the membership fee to what the other 15 clubs have - on average $150.

So out of those 40,000 members how many do you think will actually fork out an extra $140? Especially, as you say, their not all "footy fanatics anyway"??

You also seem to think because the stadium holds 12,000 then that's how many they're going to get in there each match guaranteed and that's how many members they're going to get also. Even with that, North this year had over 22,000 members, so a whopping 12,000 in the new franchise .... hhhmmm sounds pretty good to me.:rolleyes:

And please explain, how you marry up a "first class team on the park" with having lots of pokies and money in the bank? Do you not understand the difference? Having cash does not buy you a first class team ... just look at yours.