Clubs not Franchises - North Melbourne support thread

[Koutou43]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo

No history, no culture, gay jumpers

[thewest]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo

No history, no culture, gay jumpers

Harsh dude....freo's history is with south fre fc and east freo fc in the wafl....yes the jumpers are gay though

[- PC -]

While I find it distatseful the manner in which Demetriou and co are going about this , as someone who believes there are too many clubs in Melbourne I cant support North in this.

Maybe the pain will be more but the move has to happen, whether it be North or someone else. Taking the high moral ground only leaves you without oxygen

[Papa G]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo

No history, no culture, gay jumpers

The last thing we need is another Kouta. Back stabbing gay icon.

[thewest]

The last thing we need is another Kouta. Back stabbing gay icon.

Classic:thumbsu:

[walken79]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo

No history, no culture, gay jumpers
Spoken like a true Victorian.
We've been playing footy for a while in Freo mate, do some research before you make a fool of yourself next time.

[Nick85]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo

No history, no culture, gay jumpers

What a team of tanking losers is better?

[gangsta deluxe]

This thread is being hijacked by you interstaters. Go and get stuffed.

The OP in this thread was poor. We do however need to support North. They are a club with a rich history that needs to be maintained. I hope all fans, even non Victorian fans, come out in support of North in the upcoming struggle.

[Koutou43]

Spoken like a true Victorian.
We've been playing footy for a while in Freo mate, do some research before you make a fool of yourself next time.

Q. How many games have the Dockers played in Fremantle

A. None

[walken79]

Q. How many games have the Dockers played in Fremantle

A. None
How many games do the blues now play in Carlton?
You're an idiot.

We can look after ourselves but you'd rather have a team sponging off the rest of the clubs?

[LancePicioane]

Appreciate the support guys. It means double for us when it comes from opposition fans.
These are very tough times for us North supporters. Please put yourself in our shoes:(

[gangsta deluxe]

Appreciate the support guys. It means double for us when it comes from opposition fans.
These are very tough times for us North supporters. Please put yourself in our shoes:(

Many of your supporters were there in 1989 for my team. I will return the favour. Do any of you guys know where I can make a small donation?

[thewest]

Appreciate the support guys. It means double for us when it comes from opposition fans.
These are very tough times for us North supporters. Please put yourself in our shoes:(

I am buying an out of state membership for north cause clubs shouldnt have to move, but you victorians shoudnt talk sh*t about a club when you have no idea...

[Koutou43]

How many games do the blues now play in Carlton?
You're an idiot.

We can look after ourselves but you'd rather have a team sponging off the rest of the clubs?

The question was have

Carlton have played in Carlton
North Melbourne have played in North Melbourne

Dockers ..... no

Thats the point the AFL just create teams these days and think they represent something.

Thats why Ports was a great addition, rewarding a club.
Complete opposite to inventing.

[Tas]

I wont bag Fremantle because it bears the same name as a proud suburban club that has had a long history in Western Australia, however, I do not want my club to turn into yet another franchise club that just plays football to make money and where winning is good because it makes money.

Money should always be a means to an end for football, we need money and need to be able to run profitably to ensure our survival but it should be all about the supporters, the members, the game and the contest.

We are making a lot of compromises in the game for the sake of money and it has not improved the quality of the game, in fact, the standard is far lower than it has been 10-20 years ago and we get to see the same old clubs on TV over and over. We can't go down the same road as the EPL and have money dominate the game.

Those with the most to gain from AFL chasing the dollars are Rugby and Soccer, as more will push to alternative sports the more the AFL ruin the football culture. If alternative sports with a wide global appeal get a foothold in our heartland states then our club wont be the only casualty in this war.

[gangsta deluxe]

I am buying an out of state membership for north cause clubs shouldnt have to move, but you victorians shoudnt talk sh*t about a club when you have no idea...

Most of us wouldn't. The relocation of ANY club in the AFL at the moment is something that is distasteful to me. Furthermore, there is a rich history of football in WA and I completely disagree with the starter of this thread.

However I disagree with many people, who are usually the supporters of interstate teams, in regards to North's predicament. They have no idea what this feels like yet say that North moving is necessary. These supporters should think for a moment what this means to the supporters of the club.

I grew up in Fitzroy. As a child I played in the Fitzroy junior football team. the impact of their demise on the community was distressing. It was a horrible experience. The last game was truly sad(even from the perspective of a dogs supporter).

[walken79]

The question was have

Carlton have played in Carlton
North Melbourne have played in North Melbourne

Dockers ..... no

Thats the point the AFL just create teams these days and think they represent something.

Thats why Ports was a great addition, rewarding a club.
Complete opposite to inventing.
Port's still in the SANFL though last time I checked: The Port Adelaide AFL club represents that area and SANFL traditions just like Freo represents South & East for the WAFL. Both teams entered the AFL with a different name, colours, home game ground etc etc.
We play our games at Subiaco- our base, clubhouse & training ground is in Freo. Just like Melbourne teams who play their games away from their base....Christ mate, there's only 1 team based in Richmond isn't there? Could've sworn the MCG's in Richmond....

[Koutou43]

Port's still in the SANFL though last time I checked: The Port Adelaide AFL club represents that area and SANFL traditions just like Freo represents South & East for the WAFL. Both teams entered the AFL with a different name, colours, home game ground etc etc.
We play our games at Subiaco- our base, clubhouse & training ground is in Freo. Just like Melbourne teams who play their games away from their base....Christ mate, there's only 1 team based in Richmond isn't there? Could've sworn the MCG's in Richmond....

No the MCG is in East Melbourne.

[walken79]

For what it's worth, I hope all works out for the Kangas....I just don't quite understand why my team has to cop a bagging out of all this?

Seems uncalled for and isn't doing much to help the Kangas cause.

[walken79]

No the MCG is in East Melbourne.
There are only a few grounds worth playing at due to the popularity of the modern game my friend....Freo, like Collingwood, like St Kilda, like Carlton, like Essendon, like Port Adelaide and like almost every other freakin team in the comp, plays at a ground outside of our specific club area because it's the best option for all of us!
Yet for some reason, it's only us you're interested in?
Our base and clubhouse is in Fremantle for crying out loud....

[- PC -]

Money should always be a means to an end for football, we need money and need to be able to run profitably to ensure our survival but it should be all about the supporters, the members, the game and the contest.

We are making a lot of compromises in the game for the sake of money .

Tas yes it easy for me as a supporter of a ''franchise who makes a lot of money'' but the sentiments you utter are of 20 years ago.

If you wish football to be like it was 20 years ago then get your club to opt out

I noted on another thread that Fitzroys biggest failure was not taking a step back to survive. They are gone never to come back except on some bottom placed board on BF

If you cant compromise then either die or be willing to take a step back and have a team in the VFA/VFL and see them each weekend.... if its not about the money then that should be acceptable

Shouldnt it?

[Peel Supporter]

Will make sure to visit the Gold Coast Kangas/ Southport Kangas if I'm ever on holiday from sunny Fremantle. Secure on and off the field. Visit the West anytime.

[A Living God]

Profitable and Self-Relieant clubs are such a pain in the arse.

Collingwood is more of franchise then West Coast
Income from Football related actives:
West Coast: 100%
Collingwood: 70%
Hawthorn is more of franchise then West Coast.
Games sold (per year):
West Coast: 0
Hawthorn: 4

What does Hawthorn and Collingwood and Kangaroos have in common that the Kangaroos do not?

[Shaker_Maker]

I'll support any move against North Melbourne moving interstate. This AFL decision has no concern what so ever for the club or its supporters, no matter what spin they put on it. The AFL business plan is:

- we want a presence on the Gold Coast;
- who is currently the most vulnerable Vic club?;
- lets hold the Kangas over a barrel.

What happens in future if the 'plan' dictates a team in Darwin? or Wellington NZ? (don't laugh, it may happen one day). Who's next on the chopping block?

Fight for all your lives North fans.

"there but for the grace of God go I" - every AFL fan of other clubs should heed this.

[Slamin]

Its a dam emotional issue isnt it.

I must admit I dont like the way DEmet..demit..dem...the fat pig of the AFL goes about his business at all....it reeks of bully boy syndrome to me.

I think the AFL are correct though in wanting a team on the Gold Coast....just 4 years too late !!!!!!!!! ( not overly convinced it will work now, I think they missed the boat )

Yes, Melbourne has too many sides but instead of riding roughshod over a stricken club, work with the clubs in general and see if other options are more favourable.

Personally, I dont want the Roos to HAVE to shift and I feel for their many diehard supporters. If the AFL had gone about all this with a little more tact, we may have had the Roo's being pro active on the idea.

But not now

[Tas]

Tas yes it easy for me as a supporter of a ''franchise who makes a lot of money'' but the sentiments you utter are of 20 years ago.

If you wish football to be like it was 20 years ago then get your club to opt out

I noted on another thread that Fitzroys biggest failure was not taking a step back to survive. They are gone never to come back except on some bottom placed board on BF

If you cant compromise then either die or be willing to take a step back and have a team in the VFA/VFL and see them each weekend.... if its not about the money then that should be acceptable

Shouldnt it?

That is your choice who and what you support.

If the Crows were a club that could not make any money and cost a lot of money and effort to keep going do you think the SANFL would bother with keeping the club going?

I do not want football to be like 20 years ago, I am just saying in the last 20 years the standard of football has declined and the off-field situation has not improved by the AFL chasing money. AFL is more concerned about profit margin, gate attendance, ratings and revenue than it is about the game itself and they are changing the game to appeal to a market which is destroying our game.

I am more concerned about the direction that football is heading than my club specifically. If my club doesn't want to then it wont relocate, it wont solve the problem with the AFL in that is becoming a money oriented organisation and I have yet to see a benefit from heading down that path.

If you make too many compromises with things that are important to you then you lose purpose. Clubs have been willing to make compromises, the AFL is a compromise, the push into other states is a compromise.

If we were just interested in making money we could change code to gridiron and join the American NFL, where do you draw the line with the compromises?

AFL is an important cultural part of our society and the money is inconsequential compared to what the game means to us as Melbournians, I don't know what it is like being in 1 or 2 team towns but everyone that comes here says this is the place to be if you love football and if we can generate $1.4 billion over 5 years there can't be too much going wrong with football at the moment.

I do not subscribe to the theory that we have to destroy football in Melbourne to expand the game in other states. People said 12 teams wouldn't work, said the same with 14 and 16 as well. It has worked economically, if other states are ready for AFL then we should expand it without threatening the existance of existing clubs. 18 clubs might not maximise their revenue but money isn't the most important thing in our game.

[Chris who]

Tas yes it easy for me as a supporter of a ''franchise who makes a lot of money'' but the sentiments you utter are of 20 years ago.

If you wish football to be like it was 20 years ago then get your club to opt out

I noted on another thread that Fitzroys biggest failure was not taking a step back to survive. They are gone never to come back except on some bottom placed board on BF

If you cant compromise then either die or be willing to take a step back and have a team in the VFA/VFL and see them each weekend.... if its not about the money then that should be acceptable

Shouldnt it?

Great post
The VFL Did what it had to do to survive which is invite (for a hefty fee) outsiders in to play to support the league
North Melbourne have two choices to survive, Gold Coast or VFA\VFL

[Dylan12]

Most of us wouldn't. The relocation of ANY club in the AFL at the moment is something that is distasteful to me. Furthermore, there is a rich history of football in WA and I completely disagree with the starter of this thread.

However I disagree with many people, who are usually the supporters of interstate teams, in regards to North's predicament. They have no idea what this feels like yet say that North moving is necessary. These supporters should think for a moment what this means to the supporters of the club.

I grew up in Fitzroy. As a child I played in the Fitzroy junior football team. the impact of their demise on the community was distressing. It was a horrible experience. The last game was truly sad(even from the perspective of a dogs supporter).

I understand your sentiments but if you look at the following facts:

The city of New York (population greater than whole of Australia) supports 6 pro Teams (2xNFL, 2 x MLB, 1x NBA and 1xNHL) yet people expect Melbourne to support 10 AFL sides, 1 NRL side, 1 A League and there is talk of another A League team by 2010 and a Super 14 team - so roughly 14 pro teams in the city plus Grand Prix, Aus Open, Spring carnival - if anyone is stupid enough to not realise that it is completely unsustainable for all these teams and events to survive are morons - i knew this 12 years ago and knew Fitzroy was f***** so naturally you get behind whatever will preserve and maintain our history for eternity.

When Fitzroy died, I was rapt, we were an absolute joke and basket case and i would have been the first to pull the plug out of the wall like alot of Fitzroy family, friends and other Royboys i knew who had had enough of rattling tins and trying to delay the inevitable - face up to reality North and anyone else who wants to throw money away - give it to Beyond Blue or Movember which actually serves the community, beacuse if you donate now and the AFL send them to Gold Coast anyway you have thrown your money away - don't be foolish.

[twoforjoy]

I support the North Melbourne FC's bid to stay in Melbourne. They have a proud tradition in the game I love. I have a made a small pledge and hassled a Nth supporting workmate into buying a memberships for himself and one each for his 2 baby daughters. Not much, but grass roots support is where it's at.

[mantis]

This thread is being hijacked by you interstaters. Go and get stuffed.

The OP in this thread was poor. We do however need to support North. They are a club with a rich history that needs to be maintained. I hope all fans, even non Victorian fans, come out in support of North in the upcoming struggle.

Exactly & you being a Doggie supporter knows how it feels, to have the threat of your club disappearing. I always have & always will help out my fellow Vic clubs to try & keep them alive.

[MAG87]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo

No history, no culture, gay jumpers

hey at least freo is more respected than your mob whos ceo committed huge fraud and cheated the cap a few years back.

[mighty mick]

I'll support any move against North Melbourne moving interstate. This AFL decision has no concern what so ever for the club or its supporters, no matter what spin they put on it. The AFL business plan is:

- we want a presence on the Gold Coast;
- who is currently the most vulnerable Vic club?;
- lets hold the Kangas over a barrel.

What happens in future if the 'plan' dictates a team in Darwin? or Wellington NZ? (don't laugh, it may happen one day). Who's next on the chopping block?

Fight for all your lives North fans.

"there but for the grace of God go I" - every AFL fan of other clubs should heed this.

exactly, you think the afl will be happy with one sydney team, the preassure will be on someone else later on down the track.

[McCrann]

I do not want football to be like 20 years ago, I am just saying in the last 20 years the standard of football has declined and the off-field situation has not improved by the AFL chasing money. AFL is more concerned about profit margin, gate attendance, ratings and revenue than it is about the game itself and they are changing the game to appeal to a market which is destroying our game.

I am more concerned about the direction that football is heading than my club specifically. If my club doesn't want to then it wont relocate, it wont solve the problem with the AFL in that is becoming a money oriented organisation and I have yet to see a benefit from heading down that path.



Please - move out of the 20th Century!

Do you want Australian Football to be played at all in 100 years? Do you not understand that the sentiments you express are completely nonsensical?

Blaming the AFL for being concerned about
profit margin, gate attendance, ratings and revenue - chasing money as you say.

Would you prefer the AFL never made any profits? (ie - did not seek to increase its profit margin?)

Well, in that case you can forget not just about North Melbourne, but about every other team as well. I'll give you a quick refreseher in how economics works - and what happens to organisations/business'/competitions/countries even that make no profits - guess what?

THEY GO OUT OF BUSINESS!

To be replaced by competitions and organisations that do make money! Simple, if you're a talented young sportsman - why would you play a sport that will pay you a pittance when your talents mean that playing a rival sport will make you comfortable for life? Answer is - YOU WILL FOLLOW THE MONEY.

That is why the AFL is Australia's most succesful sporting code at the moment - it offers the most opportunity to talented young Australian sportsman to pursue their talents and make a living out of it.

By what you've said you would prefer the AFL made no profit

= All AFL Clubs will go out of business

you deride a focus on increasing gate attendance - the extension to that is that you would prefer lower and lower crowds if that meant football was played the way you specifically want it to be played - doesn't increasing crowds tell you something fairly obvious? (PEOPLE STILL LIKE THE GAME! - BINGO!)

With lower and lower crowds, don't you realise where that leads - declining money in the game, less talented sportsman enticed to play the game, less talented sportsman creating a less and less entertaining spectacle - ie - the game will shrivel and DIE!

So, with declining gate attendance - which is the corollary of what you said - you also achieve the situation that

- All AFL Clubs go out of existence.

Then, you deride the AFL chasing ratings and revenue? Does that mean that you would prefer those ratings and revenue went elsewhere? Because the AFL didn't care about that sort of thing? Like increased ratings to soccer and rugby for instance? Presumably that is what you seek when you criticise the AFL for trying to maximise these things.

Yet again - what you want leads to a simple truth - The AFL withers and dies - and other sports take over?

I'm beginning to wonder whether you have any intellect at all or if in fact you are a lover of another sport, like soccer or rugby, who is deliberately running down the AFL because you have another agenda!

If you're going to argue that your team must stay in Melbourne - THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FINE - make that argument and be passionate about it - that is definitely your right - but don't blame the AFL for being concerned about the future of the game!

The game is bigger than any individual, any club or even, ANY STATE! Yes, that's right - Aussie Rules is more important than how many Victorian teams get to play in the Premier competition! TRUE - From the wailing of old Fitzroy supporters, and now some - not all - Kangaroos supporters - the AFL is out to get them - NO IT IS NOT - Get this into your heads please - THE AFL IS LOOKING OUR FOR THE INTERESTS OF THE GAME AND THE SPORT.

Presumably all those who argue against either the Kangaroos going to the Gold Coast - or a 17th team on the Gold Coast would prefer to see the A-League put a team in their first - and move towards becoming the nation's most truly national sporting code - thus, growing their code - WHICH IS NATURALLY AT THE EXPENSE OF OUR CODE?

How can people be so short-sighted?

I have to say, all those who argue they want the AFL to stay exactly as it is now for perpetuity FRUSTRATE THE HELL OUT OF ME. Its a selfish attitude - ie we know what's best and we don't need no newcomers to find out because we're so happy and insular with how things are - and it just means that growth will eventually stop, the competition will atrophy, and then when it starts to shrink - what happens then?

Please people, get your head out of the sand, try and not be so parochial - and think about the future of the Australian Football.

Ask yourself a simple question?

Which is more important to you -

The future of your own football club?

OR

The future of Australian Football as a whole?

For any true football fan - that professes to love the game - there can be only 1 answer to that question - and if you're someone who says if my club has to change and evolve in some way, ie relocate or perhaps merge - then I will stop watching football - I have to question exactly what type of fairweather fan that you are.

Please - ask yourself what got you into football in the first place - was it the game itself - or something else - like being able to belong to some sort of group?

[mantis]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Were you singing the same tune, when the Saints were in dire trouble & rattling tins, asking all Vic clubs supporters to help them out? Didn't think so. :rolleyes:

[longsuffreosupp]

Q. How many games have the Dockers played in Fremantle

A. None


a couple actually

[Moo]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo


You don't want another competitve, financially viable club?

Anyway I apologise for the interstaters abusing your view.

I know Freo with our no history or tradition (oh sorry and no culture) will always struggle to get as many members as the powerful Victorian loving football clubs.

I mean how could we be expected to get more members than Carlton? A proud club, with a winning tradition combined with the ability to develop talented juniors and create that winning culture through talent identification (rather than just the crass efforts of some to buy and cheat their way to a flag).

I honestly don't know how long Freo will be able to stay in the comp what with only having 43 000 paid up members (I know Carlton must have 60 000 ++++) ...and obviously with WA only starting to play football in 1986 - I think we have done a fine job.

I dream that our club will one day have the foresight to tank our way into AFL history with you.

[Koutou43]

a couple actually

When?

[chook2734]

This thread is being hijacked by you interstaters. Go and get stuffed.

The OP in this thread was poor. We do however need to support North. They are a club with a rich history that needs to be maintained. I hope all fans, even non Victorian fans, come out in support of North in the upcoming struggle.

Please, forgive us for intruding on a thread that questions the very existence of our club - did you read the OP criticising Fremantle? While you're at it, maybe you could forgive us for making that $4m licence fee payment to keep your competition alive. Oh, and don't forget the trips we make to Darwin so that your club can actually make some money from a game, because YOUR supporters are too weak to show up at a Fremantle game in Melbourne.

The Kangaroods could learn a thing or two from Fremantle - in 2001 they managed 2 wins. They were $8m in debt and had about 20,000 members. Six years later, no debt, 43,000 members and $1m+ profits - all without handouts from the AFL. Don't say, oh, but WA has such a larger population/club ratio - that only supports the move to QLD. Don't say Freo had inept administration (of course they did) - that only shows just how inept the Kangaroos administration is. If the Kangaroos want to stay in Melbourne, become viable. Stand on your own two feet and everyone will support you.

[Moo]

When?

Pre-season games I think he is referring too.

Unfortunately Freos capacity is under 35000 .....unless we should turn people away?

I am not sure Kooties - could you tell us with all of your wisdom ....how is playing games at Princess Park doing for you guys at the moment? Should we change?

[Koutou43]

[QUOTE=chook2734;9394854]Please, forgive us for intruding on a thread that questions the very existence of our club - did you read the OP criticising Fremantle? While you're at it, maybe you could forgive us for making that $4m licence fee payment to keep your competition alive. Oh, and don't forget the trips we make to Darwin so that your club can actually make some money from a game, because YOUR supporters are too weak to show up at a Fremantle game in Melbourne.
You make a good point. No one in Melbourne likes to go to Freo games ie their boring. No atmosphere.

Just like a 17th team franchise would be.

[chook2734]

Please, forgive us for intruding on a thread that questions the very existence of our club - did you read the OP criticising Fremantle? While you're at it, maybe you could forgive us for making that $4m licence fee payment to keep your competition alive. Oh, and don't forget the trips we make to Darwin so that your club can actually make some money from a game, because YOUR supporters are too weak to show up at a Fremantle game in Melbourne.

You make a good point. No one in Melbourne likes to go to Freo games ie their boring. No atmosphere.

Just like a 17th team franchise would be.

I don't understand people like you. I go to footy to watch MY team (they just so happen to be Fremantle). I don't like some teams, but I certainly don't look at the fixtures to see who my team is playing before I make a decision to go and watch them or not. Given the general lack of success of Freo, I would think that would be a good game to go to - surely you'd be almost guaranteed a win??

Go to the footy to support your team, who cares about the opposition. (Actually, I can understand Carlton supporters not enjoying the Freo games - when was the last time you managed a win?? :D)

[Moo]

You make a good point. No one in Melbourne likes to go to Freo games ie their boring. No atmosphere.

Just like a 17th team franchise would be.

Gees such passion ...this makes me laugh - or is it because you actually need to play the Tiges and Pies so that you can count their fans in your home game numbers?

Maggies got 45K against us? Dons got 32K ....guess they like seeing their team play...wow what a concept.

Also tell me then why only 26,156 to your last game against Melb ...with 2 teams trying to do all they can to avoid the spoon. Melb's home game but with all of your history and tradition - I would have thought 2 desperate teams fighting tooth and nail would have fired up you and your non-franchise mob?

Your last home game against the Roos was only 29,000 too? How is that possible?

Funnily enough Tiges don't struggle for numbers ....it was alomst like you were not trying to win :eek:?

Need a reason to see your team play other than seeing your team play ...I don't understand it, it must be a culture thing.

[McCrann]

BLAH BLAH BLAH.

Were you singing the same tune, when the Saints were in dire trouble & rattling tins, asking all Vic clubs supporters to help them out? Didn't think so. :rolleyes:

I have to wonder if you even read my post.

Did you see the part where I said this?

If you're going to argue that your team must stay in Melbourne - THAT IS ABSOLUTELY FINE - make that argument and be passionate about it - that is definitely your right - but don't blame the AFL for being concerned about the future of the game!


Maybe you should refer back to the post I was replying to - arguing the AFL should not worry about profit, crowds, revenues - any of that stuff - just try and stick to tradition. Are you someone who would like the AFL to be making a loss year after year? For crowds to be falling year after year? For TV companies to be offering less and less money for the TV rights year after year?

Maybe you should read my post again.

As for my club, St. Kilda - I was too young at the time you speak of to make much of a difference - but I can tell you now, if St. Kilda were to be in this position in the future, I would argue for relocation. Why?

I look at what happened to South Melbourne and compare that to what happened to Fitzroy.

South Melbourne, whatever troubles they had, eventually decided their future as a club lay in Sydney - they went there - it took a long time, no doubt, but when they won that flag in 2005, the old South Melbourne supporters were able to come out of the woodwork and say - that's my club. They weren't forced into a merger like Fitzroy.

Looking at Fitzroy, they were offered the chance to go to Queensland after the 1986 season. Their pride in their history caused them to refuse and enter into an untenable period.

Shrinking crowds, shrinking membership, shrinking revenue, selling their better players off etc. etc. It was a death spiral. If you look at Fitzroy's results from 1987-1996 - they did not make the finals and they were gradually squeezed out of the competition by their lack of competitiveness.
They got worse and worse.

When they eventually were forced to merge with Brisbane, many supporters didn't accept this and dropped off altogether.

Compare that to South Melbourne and ask yourself, which club has come out ahead of moving north out of those 2? It is definitely South Melbourne - they accepted the need for change.

I would hope North Melbourne can realise the situation they are truly in and make the best of this opportunity - and make even a better deal than South Melbourne did - squeeze every cent and draft concession they can out of the AFL and go up there under a full head of steam. If they do that, if someone shows true leadership - they could easily keep 10,000-13,000 members in Melbourne and they will become one of the powerhouses in the AFL.

I just hope they realise this and look at the examples of history provided by South Melbourne and Fitzroy and make a considered choice.

[greennick]

I wont bag Fremantle because it bears the same name as a proud suburban club that has had a long history in Western Australia, however, I do not want my club to turn into yet another franchise club that just plays football to make money and where winning is good because it makes money.

Money should always be a means to an end for football, we need money and need to be able to run profitably to ensure our survival but it should be all about the supporters, the members, the game and the contest.

We are making a lot of compromises in the game for the sake of money and it has not improved the quality of the game, in fact, the standard is far lower than it has been 10-20 years ago and we get to see the same old clubs on TV over and over. We can't go down the same road as the EPL and have money dominate the game.

Those with the most to gain from AFL chasing the dollars are Rugby and Soccer, as more will push to alternative sports the more the AFL ruin the football culture. If alternative sports with a wide global appeal get a foothold in our heartland states then our club wont be the only casualty in this war.
Don't all clubs try to make money to increase their football spending and hence chances of winning? I don't think any clubs make money just for the **** of it.

I can't really see people changing from liking footy to rugby because of the increased money in the game. That is a bit fanciful.

[moomba]

While you're at it, maybe you could forgive us for making that $4m licence fee payment to keep your competition alive. Oh, and don't forget the trips we make to Darwin so that your club can actually make some money from a game, because YOUR supporters are too weak to show up at a Fremantle game in Melbourne.

How much has Freo received from the sale of Waverley Park? (genuine question, I don't know) You shouldn't forget that the $4m licence fee has given you opportunity to earn revenue that was made on the back of the original sides.

The Kangaroods could learn a thing or two from Fremantle - in 2001 they managed 2 wins. They were $8m in debt and had about 20,000 members. Six years later, no debt, 43,000 members and $1m+ profits - all without handouts from the AFL.

What do you call priority picks? Better, more marketable players = more money. Everyone is compromised in some way, and while ours is probably the most obvious I don't think there is a club that doesn't get some advantage from the AFL that isn't made available to other clubs.

Don't say, oh, but WA has such a larger population/club ratio - that only supports the move to QLD.

How so?

Don't say Freo had inept administration (of course they did) - that only shows just how inept the Kangaroos administration is.

I agree that football administration can make drastic improvements tothe financial figures of a club if given the opportunity. Even at North Melbourne, there is certainly plenty of room for improvement in our operations.

If the Kangaroos want to stay in Melbourne, become viable.

I agree. Bit hard with a 30 deadline and the AFL making a daily negative statement about the club while we're trying to sell memberships and sort of the new board/administrative structure of the club.

You'd almost think they don't want North supporters to sign up.

[A Living God]

What do you call priority picks? Better, more marketable players = more money. Everyone is compromised in some way, and while ours is probably the most obvious I don't think there is a club that doesn't get some.
Freo in their infinite wisdom traded their priotity pick for Trent Croad

[chook2734]

How much has Freo received from the sale of Waverley Park? (genuine question, I don't know) You shouldn't forget that the $4m licence fee has given you opportunity to earn revenue that was made on the back of the original sides

I have no idea either, but I wouldn't count on it being any more or less than any of the other 15 teams - it was an AFL asset and they distributed some of the proceeds amongst the clubs - as a club, we would be entitled to whatever share we received.


What do you call priority picks? Better, more marketable players = more money. Everyone is compromised in some way, and while ours is probably the most obvious I don't think there is a club that doesn't get some advantage from the AFL that isn't made available to other clubs.

Priority picks are available to all teams though. You could argue that the Kangaroos were too afraid to bottom out and go for priority picks given their precarious position with memberships.

How so?

The argument that teams like West coast/Freo and Adelaide/Port have a much larger population/team ratio than the Vic clubs only supports a move by the Kangaroos because it points out the fact that Melbourne is not capable of supporting 10 teams - there simply aren't enough people/sponsors in the market.

I agree that football administration can make drastic improvements tothe financial figures of a club if given the opportunity. Even at North Melbourne, there is certainly plenty of room for improvement in our operations.

I agree. Bit hard with a 30 deadline and the AFL making a daily negative statement about the club while we're trying to sell memberships and sort of the new board/administrative structure of the club.

You'd almost think they don't want North supporters to sign up.

This is the bit I really don't get. Reading a lot of posts from Kangaroos supporters, it's almost like the AFL have snuck up on them and just thrown the idea of relocation at them last week for the very first time and only given them 30 days to make a decision. The writing has been on the wall for years - everyone else has seen it and the sale of games to the Gold Coast was always going to be the first step in relocation. I can't understand why the Roos haven't been fighting since they started selling games interstate the first time round - that is what teams like Hawthorn and St Kilda have done, and they are now in a pretty reasonable position.

It all seems to be too little, too late.

[NimChief]

I support the North Melbourne FC's bid to stay in Melbourne. They have a proud tradition in the game I love. I have a made a small pledge and hassled a Nth supporting workmate into buying a memberships for himself and one each for his 2 baby daughters. Not much, but grass roots support is where it's at.

Good work mate, appreciate it.

There's a big bandwagon element out there of Roos that need to dig deep now and sign up.

[The Teflon Dean]

The last thing footy needs is another Freo

No history, no culture, gay jumpers

Excellent.:thumbsu:

Put culture before dollars.:thumbsu:

[ArachniX]

Maybe you should refer back to the post I was replying to - arguing the AFL should not worry about profit, crowds, revenues - any of that stuff - just try and stick to tradition. Are you someone who would like the AFL to be making a loss year after year? For crowds to be falling year after year? For TV companies to be offering less and less money for the TV rights year after year?

Maybe you should read my post again.

As for my club, St. Kilda - I was too young at the time you speak of to make much of a difference - but I can tell you now, if St. Kilda were to be in this position in the future, I would argue for relocation. Why?

I look at what happened to South Melbourne and compare that to what happened to Fitzroy.

South Melbourne, whatever troubles they had, eventually decided their future as a club lay in Sydney - they went there - it took a long time, no doubt, but when they won that flag in 2005, the old South Melbourne supporters were able to come out of the woodwork and say - that's my club. They weren't forced into a merger like Fitzroy.

Looking at Fitzroy, they were offered the chance to go to Queensland after the 1986 season. Their pride in their history caused them to refuse and enter into an untenable period.

Shrinking crowds, shrinking membership, shrinking revenue, selling their better players off etc. etc. It was a death spiral. If you look at Fitzroy's results from 1987-1996 - they did not make the finals and they were gradually squeezed out of the competition by their lack of competitiveness.
They got worse and worse.

When they eventually were forced to merge with Brisbane, many supporters didn't accept this and dropped off altogether.

Compare that to South Melbourne and ask yourself, which club has come out ahead of moving north out of those 2? It is definitely South Melbourne - they accepted the need for change.

I would hope North Melbourne can realise the situation they are truly in and make the best of this opportunity - and make even a better deal than South Melbourne did - squeeze every cent and draft concession they can out of the AFL and go up there under a full head of steam. If they do that, if someone shows true leadership - they could easily keep 10,000-13,000 members in Melbourne and they will become one of the powerhouses in the AFL.

I just hope they realise this and look at the examples of history provided by South Melbourne and Fitzroy and make a considered choice.

In this case I suggest you read about what happened to Fitzroy. It is easy to see from the press and news reports and assume that Fitzroy were just a basket case but if you actually read the story by the people involved you will realise it wasn't as simple as that. Also Fitzroy did decide to go to Canberra in 1994 and had even had a deal with the Canberra Raiders and the plans to redevelop Bruce stadium as a means of survival. They had the support there at the time, but the AFL refused as they wanted a Melbourne team to die so that Port Adelaide could enter the competition. Bruce Stadium has since been redeveloped and an is no longer an AFL venue.
And the point in all this is exactly the point against relocation. You mention how its all about money and finance and clubs will go dead etc but how is moving a club, or merging clubs and taking the game away from the fans good for football. Other sports will take over if you continue to push your own agenda against the wishes of the people that support the code. Look at the state of football in this city now compared to 20 years ago and you will see what I mean. In business there is no point trying to sell your product to people who aren't necessarily going to support it and at the same time frustrating the current customers. And unfortunately anyway football isn't something that can be sold.

[moomba]

I have no idea either, but I wouldn't count on it being any more or less than any of the other 15 teams - it was an AFL asset and they distributed some of the proceeds amongst the clubs - as a club, we would be entitled to whatever share we received.

I'm sure you didn't get any more or less than the others. The point I was trying to make is that the $4m licence fee did come with some very good rewards, many of which were built on the back the clubs from the original VFL. So an average VFL team gains $250-300k in a licence fee (presuming the AFL distributed all of it to clubs), but loses a chunk of an asset (Waverley Park) which I think was worth infinitely more.

Priority picks are available to all teams though. You could argue that the Kangaroos were too afraid to bottom out and go for priority picks given their precarious position with memberships.

It's a horrible concept. All clubs should be afraid to bottom out. If they are not, they are all too willing to be uncompetitive for the reward of a good draft pick. IMO thats tantamount to cheating.

The argument that teams like West coast/Freo and Adelaide/Port have a much larger population/team ratio than the Vic clubs only supports a move by the Kangaroos because it points out the fact that Melbourne is not capable of supporting 10 teams - there simply aren't enough people/sponsors in the market.

North moving is one thing, whether Gold Coast has the population to support a team is another.

This is the bit I really don't get. Reading a lot of posts from Kangaroos supporters, it's almost like the AFL have snuck up on them and just thrown the idea of relocation at them last week for the very first time and only given them 30 days to make a decision. The writing has been on the wall for years - everyone else has seen it and the sale of games to the Gold Coast was always going to be the first step in relocation. I can't understand why the Roos haven't been fighting since they started selling games interstate the first time round - that is what teams like Hawthorn and St Kilda have done, and they are now in a pretty reasonable position.

It all seems to be too little, too late.

I was bitterly against the move to the Gold Coast, as were many Roos on BigFooty. In fact when the decision went through I posted that I thought the administration should be removed. What the likes of Duff did though is make themselves as smaller target as possible. They said "remove the R word from your vocabulary", Demetriou said that all clubs would be safe for the duration of the TV deal. It's pretty hard to whip up a campaign of fury when it appears that everyone in charge is complying with the wishes of the supporters.

In retrospect, maybe we should have done more earlier. Maybe it should have been the Sydney move, maybe it should have been the Kangaroos name. But we've always been an innovative club, and there has always been an element of trust in our board to do the right thing. I think that trust was lost during the Duff era, but hopefully with the likes of Joseph, Archer and Brayshaw making the statements that the supporters want to hear the board will win some of that trust back.