Pratt has shamed himself, not football :- By Mike Sheahan

[Alpha1]

A few articles in todays papers here are the links lets discuss them :- http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22749503%255E20322,00.html

Here is another one on Withnall : - http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22746389%255E20322,00.html

And one on Chris Judd : - http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/footy/common/story_page/0,8033,22749501%255E20322,00.html

DISCUSS!!

[BBSK]

Well i'm not too sure about the rotation policy during the pre-season, but i suppose it is a good way and a great indication to see who will step up -despite the idea that Ratten himself has declared his wishes that not much influence will be put on the pre-season competition itself.

That said, the whitnall article, well you have to admit his reaction is well deserved and i think he shouldnt have just been ignored after being dropped and I dont disagree with the decision to let him go, but i wish him the best of luck after a rollercoaster ride of a football career.... and on the flip sidegood god check out that moustache!

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Plain and simple terms. Kudos to Sheehan. What were you thinking Tim Lane? So the AFL do not have a code for officials. Guess that kind of puts to bed the mass debaters on the main board.

[The Old Dark Navy's]

I do agree with the decision to let Lance go. This part is damning.

Specialist Dr Peter Wilson operated after the season and though the initial diagnosis was positive, that, too, changed quickly.

"I went and got a second opinion from Con Mitropoulos and that was probably even worse," Whitnall said.

"When you get told by the doctor, the second opinion, that if you keep playing then in five or six years you'll need a knee replacement, well, it makes you sit back and think.

Carlton were dead right. However the decision should have been made with a bit more grace although at the time Lance was not happy and thought he could play on so things might have got heated. The club should contact him now as it is hard to be cut off from the place cold turkey and he is now faced with having to find another career.

Bring him in, talk to him. Wheel him out for our first home game next year to do a lap of honour.

[Blue Dawn]

Plain and simple terms. Kudos to Sheehan. What were you thinking Tim Lane? So the AFL do not have a code for officials. Guess that kind of puts to bed the mass debaters on the board.


If only ODN - i think you'll find a few of them are compulsive.;)

[jj1978]

On Pratt: Mike Sheahan for once is talking straight!!! Pratt's business has nothing to do with the AFL and Carlton and so unless the commission put together rules for club officials they should keep their noses out of it.

On Red: We did the right thing, and I guess the friction with the club has got to do with Lance's assumption that we would re-sign him for a year just on faith and good will alone. Red we've spent the last couple of years cleaning up the place and attitudes did you expect to be a walk up start especially with alarm bells over your knees. I would not be surprised if now that you've retired and you have made the decision not to join a rival club by being drafted we will welcome you back in some form.

[TigerTuff2008]

[quote=jj1978;9460884]On Pratt: Mike Sheahan for once is talking straight!!! Pratt's business has nothing to do with the AFL and Carlton and so unless the commission put together rules for club officials they should keep their noses out of it.

What a stupid thing to say, If Steve Vizard was in charge at Collingwood, everyone would be calling for his head. Steve was banned I think for 5 years being a director - I can't see why Pratt hasn;t been banned as well - I guess he has tooo much money and influence.

I also read on a different post about some Carlton supporters saying that it hasn't cost them much, like $30 over 5 years or something stupid.

I know this bloke, who is a begger, he doesn't know where he gets his next meal from, usually donations - this guy barracks for Carlton - you really think Pratt cares about him, while he eats his Lobster for lunch.

I agree that Pratt's dealings haven't got anything to do directly with CFC, i don't think anyone does (maybe a few pies supporters). But Pratt doesn't care where he gets his money from, what does it say about a bloke who is already a very very rich man - why the F*** does he need to go out and rip off the Australian public - so he can buy another Bentley???

Tim Lane's article was spot on - Cousins has hurt himself and his family - Pratt has affected all Australians - yet we want Cousins on toast. go figure....

[The Old Dark Navy's]

What a stupid thing to say, If Steve Vizard was in charge at Collingwood, everyone would be calling for his head. Steve was banned I think for 5 years being a director - I can't see why Pratt hasn;t been banned as well - I guess he has tooo much money and influence.

Being banned from being a director usually comes about due to dodgy business practices while acting as a director. Pratt owns Visy and it is not a public company so those rules do not apply to him.

I know this bloke, who is a begger, he doesn't know where he gets his next meal from, usually donations - this guy barracks for Carlton - you really think Pratt cares about him, while he eats his Lobster for lunch.

Oh get off the grass. You want Pratt to identify and take care of all poverty stricken Carlton supporters? Does any other club do that for their supporters? Does their own government do it? Fair dinkum.

I agree that Pratt's dealings haven't got anything to do directly with CFC, i don't think anyone does (maybe a few pies supporters). But Pratt doesn't care where he gets his money from, what does it say about a bloke who is already a very very rich man - why the F*** does he need to go out and rip off the Australian public - so he can buy another Bentley???


Simplistic as usual. Visy were in a price war with Amcor, selling their product for LESS than their usual retail price. Amcor went to them and said 'stop the price war and we will not go after any of your clients'. Visy agreed as they already had the larger share of the market and were happy with that. I have not seen anything to say that the box prices were unreasonable, just that they were higher than they were when being sold for bargain basement prices during a price war. Talking and agreeing to stop competing is the crime, the ripping off part has not been so readily evident.

When the price of fuel goes down every so often then inexplicably goes back up again, are you happy that you got it for the cheaper price before it went back up? The oil companies have got us so accustomed to the way they do business, the government keeps investigating as a token gesture, but make no mistake about it, what they do is price fixing on a massive scale.

[BlueYoss]

I know this bloke, who is a begger, he doesn't know where he gets his next meal from, usually donations - this guy barracks for Carlton - you really think Pratt cares about him, while he eats his Lobster for lunch

Pratt doesn't know him so how can he care about him???

Pratt knows that there is poverty in a genral sense and this is no doubt motivation for his philanthropy -so he obviously does care. And I'm also sure he does not care what football club the people he helps barrack for.

But you do actually know this begger bloke, so tell us you compassionate humanitarian you, what the f*ck have you ever done for him?!?!

And if you could afford lobster for lunch, would you deprive yourself on account of your overwhelming compassion for this begger bloke you know?

[davemills]

Plain and simple terms. Kudos to Sheehan. What were you thinking Tim Lane? So the AFL do not have a code for officials. Guess that kind of puts to bed the mass debaters on the main board.

I enjoy winding up a Carlton supporter as much as anyone, however I have to say I agree that Pratt hasn't brought the game into disrepute. The only concern, and i am being serious here, I have is can he be trusted as president to lead your club in a legitimate way (Ie. to the rules)

Also - a note on tanking. I don't blame anyone at Carlton for wanting to tank the rest of the season. The rewards of the #1 pick are more important longer term than a win this season.

Good luck to you...I still think you should change your name to the Carlton Tankers...just works - admit it.

[Deej]

Couple of things...

1. sheehan wrote that Visy were fined 36mill, but in brackets he wrote (read Pratt) as if to say Pratt was fined 36 mill himself. This is not true. I'd love to be able to pay my parking fines out of my company bank account, but i can't, I have to pay them out of my personal bank account using funds that I had to pay income tax on in order to have available to use. Visy were fined 36 million not Pratt, looking at it any other way is a waste of time energy and effort. Sheehan either doesn't get the mechanics of business or was trying to push an agenda in his article.

2. There is far too much emphasis being place on Pratt's role in these events. He is not as directly involved in the detailed day to day runnings of Visy anymore, other than occasionally wandering down to some of the despatch areas to check the figures on the boards and say g'day to the despatch staff. I'm not sure many media people, talkback callers, or internet posters quite understand how this situation came to be - from my understandings, Pratt did not initiate this so-called 'cartel', he did not design how it would work, he did not oversee it's implementation, he was not involved in it's day to day management, in fact the person in charge of VISY's corrugated box division Rod Carroll, who was more directly involved with the cartel, was stood down by VISY at the start of this year not long after Amcor stood down two of their senior staff (Jones & Sutton). Harry Debney, who was VISY's CEO during this time and the man Pratt most entrusted to run VISY's day to day operations, resigned recently citing a disproportionate amount of blame on Pratt for what happened.

It's sad to see so many people with so little idea of what actually happened, just taking it all out on Pratt and sh-tting on the name of a guy who for decades has been one of the country's most generous philanthropists and supporter of various charities and arts programs. Surely as a country we dont just knife people that have been so good to us as a whole without considering all the facts and taking into account the emphasis of blame that other people have admitted to deserving by their more direct involvement in this? Or are we all truly that fickle?

[BlueYoss]

It's sad to see so many people with so little idea of what actually happened, just taking it all out on Pratt and sh-tting on the name of a guy who for decades has been one of the country's most generous philanthropists and supporter of various charities and arts programs. Surely as a country we dont just knife people that have been so good to us as a whole without considering all the facts and taking into account the emphasis of blame that other people have admitted to deserving by their more direct involvement in this? Or are we all truly that fickle?

This has nothing to do with Visy or even Pratt.

Carlton are back, and everyone knows it and they are jealous and scared of us again and therefore hate us again...

This is why they will stop at nothing to slander our club or anyone associated with it.

They can already taste the beltings they will be getting from us on the field and they are already looking for their excuses and comebacks.

"You guys cheated the salary cap and your President (Elliot) is a crook"

has just become

"You guys tanked and your President (Pratt) is a crook"

Well I say bring it on! I'm sick of the football world feeling sorry for Carlton, Joffa standing outside Flinders St station in a Carlton guerensey rattling a tin for us....

Let's just go back to being the best and being very arrogant about it and let the detractors go back to hating us. As it should be!

[Bluebear]

Great article by Sheehan.

Pratt has not damaged the image of the club or the sport. Only his own and that of VISY.

Whats more through his involvement with CFC and with indigenous football in NT he has put a lot more into the game by way of positives than these actions, prior to being president could ever have done in the negative.

For people to couple this up with the Cousins situation is lazy and unintelligent.

[Donstuie]

It's probably also worth pointing out that there would be dozens of other companies and charities out there that will continue to do business with Dick regardless of this. So does that mean they're all corrupt and 'cheats' like the cfc apparently is?

[HBF]

Read the article by Mike Sheahan, and he is spot on, and something that I have been saying for some time. What Pratt did has nothing to do with the AFL. Pretty simple really.

[mediumsizered]

I doubt the AFL would want to push this 'barrow' very far at all. If they even give consideration to going down this road, there will be a lot of very nervous club directors, at most, if not all AFL clubs. There aren't too many successful/wealthy businessmen out there who haven't at some stage flown extremely 'close to the wind'. Such an investigation would open a massive Pandora's Box.

[Donstuie]

Especially if someone were to do some investigating on a certain (now deceased) commissioner who held a monopoly on catering at football grounds for a number of years and charged ridiculous amounts of money ;)

[j-ham]

Spew and his cronies would want to be squeaky clean...

[hustla]

What business is completely clean?? There are none. There are always side-deals, cartels and whatnot, and this will never change. You don't become a billionaire by being conservative and a law-abiding citizen. Money, Power, Greed, Corruption is all part of big business. Without these things you're a regular Joe.

[TheGeneral]

Two cases to test league's morals Richard Hinds (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/two-cases-to-test-leagues-morals/2007/11/13/1194766676008.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1)
The $36 million fine has hardly put a dent in Pratt's $5 billion fortune and his money remains good - perhaps even for a flag.

Which, as West Coast's dealings have proven, is a point where the moral dimension tends to get lost by the clubs. And where the AFL is obliged to step in.
Why didn't the media mention the moral dimension when the AFL penalised Carlton seven picks and almost $1 million when we won a spoon and were broke?

There was nothing moral about the sport's governing body nearly sending it's greatest and most successfull club out of business five years ago. The AFL were immoral when they handed out a penalty that was too harsh given the club's finances and playing list were stuffed. The AFL won't remove Pratt when they have blood on their hands and Pratt is still needed to undo the damage the AFL are partly to blame for.

On 3AW this evening, Caroline Wilson said that the money Pratt has given Carlton has come out of everyone's pockets. She forgets Dick is worth $5 billion and the cartel which ran for just four years took just $700 million.

And half of that went to Amcor. ;)

$350 million is a huge sum in anyone's language, but it still wouldn't "touch the sides" of Pratt's net worth.

I doubt Wilson and the "journalists" would kick up a fuss and claim the moral high ground if Visy sponsored the Dogs, Demons, Tigers or the Roos instead of Carlton. Prune face neglected to mention half of that figure went to Amcor who weren't fined because they were given immunity from prosecution.

Caroline, we're still waiting for a hard hitting article on the Tigers' spoon, their tanking to get a PP and why Wallace shouldn't have been sacked after sending them back to the bottom.

[Jimthegreat]

[quote=jj1978;9460884]On Pratt: Mike Sheahan for once is talking straight!!! Pratt's business has nothing to do with the AFL and Carlton and so unless the commission put together rules for club officials they should keep their noses out of it.

What a stupid thing to say, If Steve Vizard was in charge at Collingwood, everyone would be calling for his head. Steve was banned I think for 5 years being a director - I can't see why Pratt hasn;t been banned as well - I guess he has tooo much money and influence.

I also read on a different post about some Carlton supporters saying that it hasn't cost them much, like $30 over 5 years or something stupid.

I know this bloke, who is a begger, he doesn't know where he gets his next meal from, usually donations - this guy barracks for Carlton - you really think Pratt cares about him, while he eats his Lobster for lunch.

I agree that Pratt's dealings haven't got anything to do directly with CFC, i don't think anyone does (maybe a few pies supporters). But Pratt doesn't care where he gets his money from, what does it say about a bloke who is already a very very rich man - why the F*** does he need to go out and rip off the Australian public - so he can buy another Bentley???

Tim Lane's article was spot on - Cousins has hurt himself and his family - Pratt has affected all Australians - yet we want Cousins on toast. go figure....If the law says Pratt fit to run a company then he's entitled to be president of the Carlton football club. No if's, no but's. As the AFL will find out in the Cousins case, it is not above the law of the land.

And those same Collingwood supporters bagging Pratt would defend Vizard to the hilt if that were the case. In other words, for 90% of the nuff nuffs on the main board it's more about Carlton than it is about Pratt.

[Bluebear]

What Elliot did with our club brought the game into disrepute. It was directly involved int he game, had direct impacts on clubs, members, sponsors, and was in breach of the rules of the game.

The AFL did not charge Elliot and waited for tBlues memebrs to oust him.

They will not act on Pratt because:

Pratts actions have not affected the image of football, and this is proven by the fact that Hyundi have just signed with us for a record sponsorship.
His actions have nothing to do with football.
All his actions IN THE FOOTBALL world have been nothing but positive, promoting not only the Carlton fooptball club but also Indigenous football in the NT, and has done nothing to tarnish the AFL brand......in fact he has done quite the opposite.Opposition supporters will say that I'll defend him because I want his money and can't be objective..........I'll argue that they, and the media aren't being objective either as they are all grinding their own axes.

Patrick Smith going head to head with Elliot this AM couldn't argue the Dick Pratt case and turned on Elliot to try and score points.........pathetic really.