The odds of Hawthorn improving next year are about the same as

[Bring-Back-Powell]

winning.....


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Saturday_lottery_ticket_Tasmania.JPG/150px-Saturday_lottery_ticket_Tasmania.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Saturday_lottery_ticket_Tasmania.JPG)

Discuss.

[Hawkamania!]

The ALP winning the lower house in Federal Government in 2007.:)

[Leather Poisoning]

pretty good really.

[Packedlunch]

winning.....


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/d9/Saturday_lottery_ticket_Tasmania.JPG/150px-Saturday_lottery_ticket_Tasmania.JPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Saturday_lottery_ticket_Tasmania.JPG)

Discuss.

This is obviously the winning ticket with the winning numbers highlighted. So I would have to say i agree.

[Toxic Avenger]

The same as Melbourne asking the AFL for another handout.:)

[geelong_crazy26]

hawthorn were lucky to make the finals in 07, they only did so because they started the season off in first gear while other sides were still warming up

[Carn Hawkas]

The odds of Hawthorn improving next year are about the same as Melbourne finishing bottom 4. Put money on both.

[dutchy12]

It's hard to see the hawks improving. They have so many "off field" issues that need to be fixed up, there main priority will be on that and not as such winning games.

Furthermore despite Buddy, Mitchell, Hodge and C.Brown they actually have a very limited list. Remind me alot of my club in the 2004,2005,2006 era in that we made the finals but were just there to make up the numbers. At least we realised this and are now in the process of trying to redeem it. I honestly think it will take 1-2 years for Melbourne to be compeditive but even so we are much clsoer to the big thing than the hawks

[Leather Poisoning]

It's hard to see the hawks improving. They have so many "off field" issues that need to be fixed up, there main priority will be on that and not as such winning games.

Furthermore despite Buddy, Mitchell, Hodge and C.Brown they actually have a very limited list. Remind me alot of my club in the 2004,2005,2006 era in that we made the finals but were just there to make up the numbers. At least we realised this and are now in the process of trying to redeem it. I honestly think it will take 1-2 years for Melbourne to be compeditive but even so we are much clsoer to the big thing than the hawks

The only reason struggling clubs like Melbourne think that they have a chance in 1-2 years is because Hawthorn has shown how a rebuild should be done. However, Richmond, Carlton, Melbourne, Essendon and Bulldogs are all showing how rebuild processes typically occur, thus, any estimates of marked improvement that are on a timescale of less than 4-5 years are ridiculously ambitious.

[kirbatron]

hawthorn were lucky to make the finals in 07, they only did so because they started the season off in first gear while other sides were still warming up

there's no warming up period. rd 1, if you're not ready you'll get left behind.

[Hawk43]

hawthorn were lucky to make the finals in 07, they only did so because they started the season off in first gear while other sides were still warming up


I'm pretty happy to start the season in 1st gear to ensure that we have hit 5th gear towards the end of the year. Learn a bit more about gears mate. :thumbsu:

[dutchy12]

The only reason struggling clubs like Melbourne think that they have a chance in 1-2 years is because Hawthorn has shown how a rebuild should be done. However, Richmond, Carlton, Melbourne, Essendon and Bulldogs are all showing how rebuild processes typically occur, thus, any estimates of marked improvement that are on a timescale of less than 4-5 years are ridiculously ambitious.

What do you have to show for your years down the bottom though? The facts simply show that the Hawks have not rebuilt successfully and have a shocking culture that will get them no where. After watching the hawks numerous times throughout the year it seems that they are a bunch of individuals, how many times do we see Buddy try and kick a goal instead of giving the hands, Hodge get soft kicks in the back half trying to improve his individual stats?

[skipjack]

It's hard to see the hawks improving. They have so many "off field" issues that need to be fixed up, there main priority will be on that and not as such winning games.



Nice. A troll written nicely so as to not arouse the mobs.

But please allow me to retort.

1.

"So many issues". I can think of one, if it is the wrong one please enlighten me.

Now we have all talked the injunction to death, but I honestly think that those with power at the club can do more about <injunction> now than other clubs, who may be in exactly the same boat, but just don't know it yet.

With the strikes-policy as it is, no club in the league knows who is on one or two strikes, but there could be as many as 30 "two-strike" players, which averages out to nearly two per club. Apparently <injunction>, hence the club can actively take measures to correct the issue, rather than sit by and get blind-sided when / if one of their players goes positive a third time and cops a suspension for it.

As such, can't see <injunction> hurting the club too much. Main priority? I doubt it. Do you think Clarko will spend one second on it that he should have been training the boys? No.


2. West Coast premiers 2006. Even if I am completely wrong about my first point, then point two shoots your arguement dead in the water.

[Leather Poisoning]

What do you have to show for your years down the bottom though? The facts simply show that the Hawks have not rebuilt successfully and have a shocking culture that will get them no where. After watching the hawks numerous times throughout the year it seems that they are a bunch of individuals, how many times do we see Buddy try and kick a goal instead of giving the hands, Hodge get soft kicks in the back half trying to improve his individual stats?

Our culture includes winning games - so we're fine on that front. How's Melbourne's?

We had a bad run for a few years and every Hawthorn supporter admits it. We're fine with it because the club addressed the issue and filled the club with capable, qualified coaching staff and the recruitment officers have just outgunned every other side on draft day and trade week for the last 3-4 years now.

Buddy does hold onto the ball a lot, and if your club had a player that good you'd be fine with it.

Hodge doesn't get cheap free kicks - you're lack of footy knowlege is starting to show through.

Do you think Ben Holland will win a premiership for you guys? He really is a great player, you know. Him and Carrol are members of your 2009 premiership backline are they? hahahahaha

Go dees. Go home.

[Hawk43]

What do you have to show for your years down the bottom though? The facts simply show that the Hawks have not rebuilt successfully and have a shocking culture that will get them no where. After watching the hawks numerous times throughout the year it seems that they are a bunch of individuals, how many times do we see Buddy try and kick a goal instead of giving the hands, Hodge get soft kicks in the back half trying to improve his individual stats?

Have to partly agree, partly disagree. I will openly admit that the rebuilding process took way too long, probably nearly 15 years, we had shit coaches, shit players and a shit game plan, yet i still renewed my membership every single year. True that buddy tried a lot of single efforts, although if he didn't he wouldn't have got the goals either which makes him one of the most dangerous forwards to play on, true he has to work more off the ball but he's 20 years old trying to hold down an afl forward line left empty by willo's injury.
Absolute bullshit about hodge, if people that matter had your self centred point of view then he would not be heavily tagged every game, our defence is our shittest line, go now champ and have a look at his hardball gets and contested marks. you've obviously never played footy seriously i don't know one person who tries to improve individual stats, they want to win a premiership. Individuals do not get you to the finals, do you label brad sewell as being relied on as an individual? no, and he won our b&f.
I'm sick of hearing about it being labelled a bad culture coz of a person who 'found' 5 year old medical records now apparently the whole team is on drugs, but there's no point arguing about that coz there are too many biased people on here with shit trolls to get any sort of a point across.
Only hawks supporters and open minded supporters realise the full team contribution, narrow minded supporters think we're a team of 3 or 4 individuals because they might pick up the paper every now and then and regurgitate what the media says, must be tough to have your own opinion for once in your life.
Fully agree about the rebuilding phase taking too long.

[dutchy12]

Our culture includes winning games - so we're fine on that front. How's Melbourne's?

We had a bad run for a few years and every Hawthorn supporter admits it. We're fine with it because the club addressed the issue and filled the club with capable, qualified coaching staff and the recruitment officers have just outgunned every other side on draft day and trade week for the last 3-4 years now.

Buddy does hold onto the ball a lot, and if your club had a player that good you'd be fine with it.

Hodge doesn't get cheap free kicks - you're lack of footy knowlege is starting to show through.

Do you think Ben Holland will win a premiership for you guys? He really is a great player, you know. Him and Carrol are members of your 2009 premiership backline are they? hahahahaha

Go dees. Go home.

No Ben Holland will not be part of Melbourne's next premiship, he is 30 years old and has a year to run on his contract he will retire next year gracefully knowing that he gave his afl career his all on and off the field unlike some hawk players who despite their talent have literally flushed it all away. Carrol actually is extremely underrated he went close to all australian in 2006 and would not have had such a highly critisised year if it wasn't for the injuries to extremely talented players such as rivers, bartram and whelan, all 3 were part of the starting 6 who made the finals the year before. I'd prefer Carrol over your key position players in Dawson and Gilham any day of the week. Croad is not a kpp as he is soft and unaccountable thus I did not include him.

[Leather Poisoning]

No Ben Holland will not be part of Melbourne's next premiship, he is 30 years old and has a year to run on his contract he will retire next year gracefully
Oh my god they gave him ANOTHER year?

knowing that he gave his afl career his all on and off the field
That was seriously his best work?


unlike some hawk players who despite their talent have literally "abused" it all away.
Since you've already breached the injunction, you may as well go and name which player you think has abused away all their talent. (You'll actually have to point out a player that's had a bad season, and Hawthorn really didn't have many of those in 2007)


Carrol actually is extremely underrated he went close to all australian in 2006
What????


Carrol actually is extremely underrated he went close to all australian in 2006
hahahahahahahahaa


Croad is not a kpp as he is soft and unaccountable thus I did not include him.
So you rate Carrol, who you reckon went "extremely close" to all australian selection, but you don't rate Croad who actually WAS all-australian centre half back?
This is getting worse.

[FOOOOTY]

The only reason struggling clubs like Melbourne think that they have a chance in 1-2 years is because Hawthorn has shown how a rebuild should be done. However, Richmond, Carlton, Melbourne, Essendon and Bulldogs are all showing how rebuild processes typically occur, thus, any estimates of marked improvement that are on a timescale of less than 4-5 years are ridiculously ambitious.

3 finals series in a row, then 1 out.. and we are typical of how rebuilding processes occur?

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Leather Poisoning]

3 finals series in a row, then 1 out.. and we are typical of how rebuilding processes occur?

BAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You'll see.

The rebuilding is beginning. New Coach was the first step.

[FOOOOTY]

You'll see.

The rebuilding is beginning. New Coach was the first step.

So, you have no evidence that Melbourne is a typical of a rebuilding disaster ala Richmond and Carlton.

Your just hoping.

You know its true just admit it.

[Leather Poisoning]

So, you have no evidence that Melbourne is a typical of a rebuilding disaster ala Richmond and Carlton.

Your just hoping.

You know its true just admit it.

You had a bad year and the board panicked and appointed a new coach.

They're defninitely thinking 'rebuild'.

[Glorious couch life]

No Ben Holland will not be part of Melbourne's next premiship, he is 30 years old and has a year to run on his contract he will retire next year gracefully knowing that he gave his afl career his all on and off the field unlike some hawk players who despite their talent have literally "abused" it all away. Carrol actually is extremely underrated he went close to all australian in 2006 and would not have had such a highly critisised year if it wasn't for the injuries to extremely talented players such as rivers, bartram and whelan, all 3 were part of the starting 6 who made the finals the year before. I'd prefer Carrol over your key position players in Dawson and Gilham any day of the week. Croad is not a kpp as he is soft and unaccountable thus I did not include him.


Your club, your list, and this thread are all going really well for you aren't they?

[geelong_crazy26]

there's no warming up period. rd 1, if you're not ready you'll get left behind.

oh yeh geelong sure did get left behind:thumbsu:

[kirbatron]

oh yeh geelong sure did get left behind:thumbsu:


no you didnt, either did we ... well done geelong and all those that started the season well..

[geelong_crazy26]

no you didnt, either did we ... well done geelong and all those that started the season well..

first 5 rounds , we lost 3

3 loses out of first 5
1 loss out of last 20

in first 5 rounds we could only beat melb and carlton
we lost to dogs who we later beat by 85 points
we also lost to north who we later beat by 106 points

looks to me like we started the year slowly playing well below our best footy

[bomba4eva]

Our culture includes winning games - so we're fine on that front. How's Melbourne's?

lol. What the hell are you on about. Other than last season you have been mediocre. Melbourne I heard had made the most number of finals series in the past decade on any Victorian side or something along the same lines at least. Culture of winning? Please. Pathetic club who have had a culture of losing. Who knows what other cultures are forming around the club. For the Hawks sake, they had better hope all their problems get cleaned up or it will start to bite it the future.

[Packedlunch]

So, you have no evidence that Melbourne is a typical of a rebuilding disaster ala Richmond and Carlton.

Your just hoping.

You know its true just admit it.


The last 40 years have been a disaster for you though

You know its true just admit it!:D

[The Sim Dog]

"After watching the hawks numerous times throughout the year it seems that they are a bunch of individuals, how many times do we see Buddy try and kick a goal instead of giving the hands"

Absolutely agree with this. Time for plenty of Hawthorn knobs on BF to realise it too. Considering the amount of attention he gets/will get and how tough to stop he is on the lead the Hawthorn forward line (as good as it is now) will get way better again when he learns to pass or simply 'look to pass' every now and again. Yes he is good at nabbing a lot of goals no one else could get but with good forwards and hard working/running midfielders (which Hawks have enough of) leading hard some percentage play would be good.

[BackyardWrasslin]

Alistar DUDson making a prelim final as coach. Something Terry Wallce has done TWICE.

[Hawkamania!]

Alistair Clarkson making a prelim final as coach. Something Terry Wallce has done TWICE.

Something Wallace hasn't done with Richmond. That backfired quickly.:)

[BackyardWrasslin]

Something Wallace hasn't done with Richmond. That backfired quickly.:)
Tell me how many prelims has Dudson been head coach in and then now many has Wallce been head coach in. Just facts please.

[Hawkamania!]

Tell me how many prelims has Dudson been head coach in and then now many has Wallce been head coach in. Just facts please.

How about these facts:

Hawk finals with Clarkson - 1
Tiger finals with Wallace - 0

Hawthorn's record with Clarkson by year:
2005 - 5 wins
2006 - 9 wins
2007 - 14 wins
Improvement every year.

Richmond's record with Wallace by year:
2005 - 10
2006 - 11
2007 - 3
Failed with his rebuild strategy and is now copying the Clarkson Plan.

[winty]

The only reason struggling clubs like Melbourne think that they have a chance in 1-2 years is because Hawthorn has shown how a rebuild should be done. However, Richmond, Carlton, Melbourne, Essendon and Bulldogs are all showing how rebuild processes typically occur, thus, any estimates of marked improvement that are on a timescale of less than 4-5 years are ridiculously ambitious.

So finishes of 10th, 9th, 15th, 14th and 11th between finals appearances in 2001 and this year is the way to rebuild? I prefer the Geelong method, or the Port Adelaide method. Astute draft picks and picking footballers rather than athletes with mid range draft picks, all the while being competitive and not finishing in the bottom four and restocking the side with top 5 draft picks. Didn't work for St.Kilda, and I can't see it working for Hawthorn either.

Hawthorn's drafting and recruiting so far this year reminded me of Richmond's effort in 2001. Thought they were close to a grand final berth and topped up the list with has beens from other teams, and then collapsed and finished 3rd last the year after. Hawthorn lost to a team in the semi final who lost the other two finals to the grand finallists by a combined total of 193 points, yet believe they are close to success and draft a player who for the past 18 months had been eating sausage rolls instead of kicking them.

[Leather Poisoning]

So finishes of 10th, 9th, 15th, 14th and 11th between finals appearances in 2001 and this year is the way to rebuild? I prefer the Geelong method, or the Port Adelaide method. Astute draft picks and picking footballers rather than athletes with mid range draft picks, all the while being competitive and not finishing in the bottom four and restocking the side with top 5 draft picks. Didn't work for St.Kilda, and I can't see it working for Hawthorn either.

Hawthorn's drafting and recruiting so far this year reminded me of Richmond's effort in 2001. Thought they were close to a grand final berth and topped up the list with has beens from other teams, and then collapsed and finished 3rd last the year after. Hawthorn lost to a team in the semi final who lost the other two finals to the grand finallists by a combined total of 193 points, yet believe they are close to success and draft a player who for the past 18 months had been eating sausage rolls instead of kicking them.

I'm talking about Clarkson's rebuilding technique - which has yielded results even beyond his expectations.

The Schwab era was poor. We all admit it. We've changed the entire coaching staff and a lot of the recruiting staff since then - so I'd say the club's admitted it as well, wouldn't you?

It makes me laugh when clowns like you think we've suddenly changed our whole approach to drafting and recruiting by drafting ONE player that is over 25, (In the same year we've seen 3 players over 28 leave the club). That's our big departure from the youth policy is it?

We're closer to a premiership than you'd like us to be. Yes, Geelong were lucky not to finish bottom 4 in 2006, but 1 premiership in 44 years is hardly the model other clubs want to follow.

[Hawks1523]

A Melbourne supporter trying to talk shit? :eek:
Move along mate, don't even try to take us on. You can't beat us on field, or in bay13.

Look at your rable of a club. Do I really need to say anything else? :thumbsu:

[Mr Lizard]

"After watching the hawks numerous times throughout the year it seems that they are a bunch of individuals, how many times do we see Buddy try and kick a goal instead of giving the hands"

Absolutely agree with this. Time for plenty of Hawthorn knobs on BF to realise it too. Considering the amount of attention he gets/will get and how tough to stop he is on the lead the Hawthorn forward line (as good as it is now) will get way better again when he learns to pass or simply 'look to pass' every now and again. Yes he is good at nabbing a lot of goals no one else could get but with good forwards and hard working/running midfielders (which Hawks have enough of) leading hard some percentage play would be good.

I take it you haven't watched Franklin very closely this last season then? Some of the man's in close handballing is phenomenal, unstoppable.
Sure, he also has some pretty hungry shots. He gets a fair few of them though.

Buddy-envy.

[Leather Poisoning]

I take it you haven't watched Franklin very closely this last season then? Some of the man's in close handballing is phenomenal, unstoppable.
Sure, he also has some pretty hungry shots. He gets a fair few of them though.

Buddy-envy.

Strangely, Geelong supporters aren't envious of Buddy - they think Nathan Ablett is of similar brilliance.

[winty]

We're closer to a premiership than you'd like us to be. Yes, Geelong were lucky not to finish bottom 4 in 2006, but 1 premiership in 44 years is hardly the model other clubs want to follow.

So a team who won 10 and drew one game, and were competitive in almost every game we played in apart from the Collingwood, Adelaide and Kangaroos games were lucky not to finish bottom four last year? Interesting theory.

Strangely, Geelong supporters aren't envious of Buddy - they think Nathan Ablett is of similar brilliance.

I know I'd rather support a team with a multi-pronged forward line who averaged 118 points a game for the season than follow a team with a one man forward line.

[Hawks1523]

I know I'd rather support a team with a multi-pronged forward line who averaged 118 points a game for the season than follow a team with a one man forward line.

Buddy, Roughie, Boyle, Dixon. Not really one man. Although I admit we were too buddy focused.

Looking foward to next year and on.

Buddy, Roughie, Boyle, Williams, Riloi. :eek:

Sounds multi-pronged, does it not/

[fishbowl]

So a team who won 10 and drew one game, and were competitive in almost every game we played in apart from the Collingwood, Adelaide and Kangaroos games were lucky not to finish bottom four last year? Interesting theory.



I know I'd rather support a team with a multi-pronged forward line who averaged 118 points a game for the season than follow a team with a one man forward line.

Your one-eyed hatred of Hawthorn is amazing. Jarryd Roughead kicked 40+ goals, we had a 60+ goal kicker miss most of the year. Tim Boyle kicked 30+ goals and was injured in the last few weeks.

You are scared of Hawthorn, just be honest and state that. You don't want to see another dynasty like the 80s. I have congratulated Geelong on their fine season. Enjoy it, it has taken 44 years.

[fishbowl]

Buddy, Roughie, Boyle, Dixon. Not really one man. Although I admit we were too buddy focused.

Looking foward to next year and on.

Buddy, Roughie, Boyle, Williams, Riloi. :eek:

Sounds multi-pronged, does it not/

You have forgotten the Duckling, Mitchell Thorp.

[Carson_Kressley]

i think hawthorn will finish about 14th next season. there too gay to be any good

[Leather Poisoning]

So a team who won 10 and drew one game, and were competitive in almost every game we played in apart from the Collingwood, Adelaide and Kangaroos games were lucky not to finish bottom four last year? Interesting theory.
Competitive in almost every game? You've listed 4 thumpings.
Certainly weren't competitive against Hawthorn in rd 22, 2006, missed that one did you? 5 games out of 22 you got thumped. That's a quarter of the season where your team didn't turn up. The round 22 'clash' was a great game. Mark Williams kicked EIGHT goals that day. He's part of our multi-pronged attack. Was injured this year, and we had another bloke who popped up with 70+ goals. It's amazing how high quality the Hawthorn forward line is.


I know I'd rather support a team with a multi-pronged forward line who averaged 118 points a game for the season than follow a team with a one man forward line.
Roughead, Franklin, Williams, Boyle.
Each of these players can easily kick 5 goals in a game - they all need to be contained to beat us.

Let's look at goals kicked by the key forwards:
Mooney (67 from 25) compared to Franklin (73 from 22 games)
Ablett (34 from 21 games) compared to Roughead (40 from 22 games)
Chapman (30 from 19 games) compared to Boyle (32 from 20 games).

So much for your amazing multi-pronged attack being far superior to Hawthorn's "one-man forward line".
I will concede that Steve Johnson is an amazing player and I didn't compare him because in essence he is a crumber and we don't have a player that's an appropriate comparrison (yet).

So in summary. Our 'one man' forward has as many marking targets as yours and has a higher output, running players excluded.

[BackyardWrasslin]

How about these facts:


You failed to answer my question perm boy.

[Leather Poisoning]

You failed to answer my question perm boy.

Wrasslin's fake.

[mark73]

there's no warming up period. rd 1, if you're not ready you'll get left behind.

Really?

We lost the first three and finished third.

Another Ivanhoe Snawts theory blown away, again. :thumbsu:

[winty]

Really?

We lost the first three and finished third.

Another Ivanhoe Snawts theory blown away, again. :thumbsu:

No-one ever said logic was a strong suit for Hawthorn supporters.

[Leather Poisoning]

No-one ever said logic was a strong suit for Hawthorn supporters.

Startlingly similar to your claim that our team has a one-man forward line.

[fishbowl]

i think hawthorn will finish about 14th next season. there too gay to be any good

That leaves Carlton to tank it to 15th and Essendon winless in 16th. Richard Pratt should get out of packaging and into building tanks.

[winty]

Startlingly similar to your claim that our team has a one-man forward line.

Elimination final - Buddy fires, Hawthorn wins
Semi final - Buddy hardly fires a shot, Hawthorn loses.

Funny that, huh?

[Leather Poisoning]

Elimination final - Buddy fires, Hawthorn wins
Semi final - Buddy hardly fires a shot, Hawthorn loses.

Funny that, huh?

Buddy had six shots on goal that night.

Roughead was more indicative:
Elimination final: 3 goals - beat the all australian fullback.
Semi: 1 goal. No defenders of note on the field.

It's amazing the points you can make when you ignore most of the detail.

[winty]

Buddy had six shots on goal that night.

Roughead was more indicative:
Elimination final: 3 goals - beat the all australian fullback.
Semi: 1 goal. No defenders of note on the field.

It's amazing the points you can make when you ignore most of the detail.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Darren Glass AA full back this season? I thought you guys beat Adelaide in the elimination final, not West Coast.

[Carson_Kressley]

That leaves Carlton to tank it to 15th and Essendon winless in 16th. Richard Pratt should get out of packaging and into building tanks.

we dont need to tank anymore we got what we wanted. i think we will finish 8th 9th or 10th. hawks will finish 14th melbourne 15th and richmond 16th

[Leather Poisoning]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Darren Glass AA full back this season? I thought you guys beat Adelaide in the elimination final, not West Coast.

Ben Rutten is an All Australian fullback and although Glass beat him this year he is still considered a topline fullback, along with Scarlett.

Technicalities won't save you - the one-man forward line claim is flat out wrong.

[bomba4eva]

we dont need to tank anymore we got what we wanted. i think we will finish 8th 9th or 10th. hawks will finish 14th melbourne 15th and richmond 16th
13th or better is the highest any non-essendon supporter has put us:thumbsu:. Ii see Knights good work is starting to register with people.

[The Sim Dog]

Buddy, Roughie, Boyle, Dixon. Not really one man. Although I admit we were too buddy focused.

Looking foward to next year and on.

Buddy, Roughie, Boyle, Williams, Riloi. :eek:

Sounds multi-pronged, does it not/

Yep. This was my point. Multi-pronged forward lines are the way to go. Would work better at Hawthorn if Franklin will pass the football.

I take it you haven't watched Franklin very closely this last season then? Some of the man's in close handballing is phenomenal, unstoppable.
Sure, he also has some pretty hungry shots. He gets a fair few of them though.

Buddy-envy.

Not called buddy envy. Called being constructive rather than just being a stupid troll.

And LP don't put words in my mouth. Yes I am happy with N Ablett and Hawkins and have great faith in them for the future but Nathan Ablett is nowhere near Franklin's level and I have never said he is or will be.

[Mr Lizard]

Yep. This was my point. Multi-pronged forward lines are the way to go. Would work better at Hawthorn if Franklin will pass the football.
Not called buddy envy. Called being constructive rather than just being a stupid troll.

You call it being constructive, yet you have quoted someone else's rubbish claims, and present them as divine truth.

Have a look at what the man does, not just the flashy highlight reel stuff.

Yes, he is prone to having the tough hungry shot on occasion (and makes more than a few of them) but handball out of pack, deft clearing work, the guy puts in a lot which seems to go unrecognised by the average fan.

If the average fan (in this instance you) saw what else he did, we wouldn't be having this conversation.....

I wasn't calling you a stupid troll, I just get annoyed with the "accepted truths" being wheeled out, despite them not having a lot of basis in fact. They get repeated so much, they become even truer, which is patently silly.

I think it stems from Buddy Envy (yeah, nah, he's too hungry)

[hawks_legends]

There is a bigger chance of us improving next year that winning tatslotto! How stupid of you. I think thats the chances of your silly club improving next year...

[geelong_crazy26]

Failed with his rebuild strategy and is now copying the Clarkson Plan.

and clarkson is now copying the bomber thompson plan:thumbsu:

[Hawkamania!]

You failed to answer my question perm boy.
http://www.mondowrestling.com/blog/public/Carlito_WWE.jpg

Who in the hell are you calling perm boy you campesino de uncool? I would not waste spitting an apple in your ugly face.

And back to subject, Wallace reached a prelim final with the Bulldogs. And now a question for you. Has Wallace reached the finals with Richmond?

[diablo14]

I must admit i'm a bit surprised at the claims of Hawthorn having a one man forward line. To be honest, I think their forward line is going to be too crowded next year, hence the addition of Stewy Dew to help break up defensive set ups and create more space for their forwards. Their two main forwards, Buddy and Popgun, need space to work in to be effective, and if they are going to add a small forward like young Rioli to the mix, theres going to be a lot of Hawk forwards getting in each others way. This is why I am adamant Roughead needs to remain a forward, because they need a big pack marking target in there.

I think Hawthorn will struggle to repeat their efforts of 2007 in the coming season, but after that, they are going to be a very very dangerous side.

[Carson_Kressley]

13th or better is the highest any non-essendon supporter has put us:thumbsu:. Ii see Knights good work is starting to register with people.

i rate the bombers higher then alot of the struggling teams. i think they be 8th 9th or 10th next year. definately a better side then hawthorn

[The Sim Dog]

I must admit i'm a bit surprised at the claims of Hawthorn having a one man forward line. To be honest, I think their forward line is going to be too crowded next year, hence the addition of Stewy Dew to help break up defensive set ups and create more space for their forwards. Their two main forwards, Buddy and Popgun, need space to work in to be effective, and if they are going to add a small forward like young Rioli to the mix, theres going to be a lot of Hawk forwards getting in each others way. This is why I am adamant Roughead needs to remain a forward, because they need a big pack marking target in there.

I think Hawthorn will struggle to repeat their efforts of 2007 in the coming season, but after that, they are going to be a very very dangerous side.

Indeed. Williams will be back too. And I see Crawford spending more time forward. That's Franklin, Roughead, Boyle, Williams plus others like Rioli, Hodge and Crawford coming down. Too many good forwards for Franklin to be having 6 - 8 shots on goal per game. Much better for Hawthorn if they are all involved (as well as cohesive) more often than not and much tougher for opposition teams to man up if they are.