View Full Version : Mark Waugh or Darren Leahman?
Who should bat at No. 4 in the Test team mark Waugh or Darren Leahman. With Shane Warne scoring as many runs as Waugh the question has to be asked who do people prefer and with Leahman belting a double century in county cricket while Waugh is on his arse who do you want.
kretchy
30 Jun 2002, 09:17
Lehmann.
London Dave
30 Jun 2002, 09:22
Waugh
Junior.
Lehmann is a fat, unfit, traitor to Victoria ****.
dreamkillers
30 Jun 2002, 13:33
Originally posted by Hoggy
Junior.
Lehmann is a fat, unfit, traitor to Victoria ****.
I would have thought going back home to captain your state is an honourable thing to do.........
If he's a traitor you better look at the birthplace of a few of the players in the Vic team.........perhaps you want Bill Lawry to come out of retirement............;)
Certainly been a silly season this winter with players switching sides from all states........
SeinDude
30 Jun 2002, 17:24
I think Mark Waugh will be given a chance in the first 2 tests this summer to prove that he is still capable of scoring runs.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
The Hippie
30 Jun 2002, 23:48
Originally posted by SeinDude
I think Mark Waugh will be given a chance in the first 2 tests this summer to prove that he is still capable of scoring runs.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Waugh's definitely still capable of scoring runs, whether he still has the hunger to score them is the thing...
He might score runs because if he doesn't he will lose money and he is a money hungry pig. His brother is not that much better.
Originally posted by Slax
He might score runs because if he doesn't he will lose money and he is a money hungry pig. His brother is not that much better.
Absolutely ridiculous comment.
Mark Waugh is one of the greatest batsmen I have ever watched when on song. Classy and stylish. I hope he is given another chance, but I think his best years are behind him and I think he would be under too much pressure to perform.
I am not confident in the Aussie batting line-up at the moment. We struggle in the middle order. Pakistan showed up what a bunch of sloggers our current batsmen are. I've seen park cricketers play more intelligent innings than that. We miss the class of the Waughs.
Originally posted by Breidis
Mark Waugh is one of the greatest batsmen I have ever watched when on song. Classy and stylish. I hope he is given another chance, but I think his best years are behind him and I think he would be under too much pressure to perform.
Mark Waugh one of the greatest are you kidding!!!!!!!!!!!
The guy has consistantly underperformed all his career. He has an middle of the road batting average in the low 40s. He has only ever made one score of over 150 in a test match and never made a double century. He has one of the poorest conversion rates of 50s to 100s in Australian batsmen over the last 30 years.
Those are not the figure of a class batsman they are the figures of some who is over-rated. He is under pressure to perform because he has brought it on himself, this is created by being lazy and not able to concentrate properly. these are the reasons why he should go.
Originally posted by Slax
Mark Waugh one of the greatest are you kidding!!!!!!!!!!!
The guy has consistantly underperformed all his career. He has an middle of the road batting average in the low 40s. He has only ever made one score of over 150 in a test match and never made a double century. He has one of the poorest conversion rates of 50s to 100s in Australian batsmen over the last 30 years.
Those are not the figure of a class batsman they are the figures of some who is over-rated. He is under pressure to perform because he has brought it on himself, this is created by being lazy and not able to concentrate properly. these are the reasons why he should go.
Geez, you can misquote someone! :rolleyes:
I said he was one of the greatest batsmen I have ever watched, not that he is the greatest in the history of the game. I love watching him bat. He has a touch of class about him. His only downfall is that he gets out to silly shots quite often, but the strokeplay this guy is capable of when on song is genuinely fantastic to watch. Effortless, great timer of the ball.
I saw him make 80-odd at Adelaide last year and it was a pleasure to watch and he is one reason I would go to a cricket game.
By the way, what's wrong with a test batting average of 40-odd? England only have two 40-plus batsmen and Mark Waugh has been able to average over 40 for over 10 years.
Richie Benaud
2 Jul 2002, 21:56
Originally posted by Briedis
I saw him make 80-odd at Adelaide last year and it was a pleasure to watch and he is one reason I would go to a cricket game.
That was a marvellous innings that, really super stuff by Mark Waugh!
larrikin
2 Jul 2002, 23:54
I think move Martyn up to 4, look for fresh talent at 6.
Originally posted by Briedis
By the way, what's wrong with a test batting average of 40-odd? England only have two 40-plus batsmen and Mark Waugh has been able to average over 40 for over 10 years.
That's why England are hopeless at the moment.
SeinDude
3 Jul 2002, 10:35
Originally posted by Slax
That's why England are hopeless at the moment.
Not to mention the fact that England rely on bowlers such as Andrew Caddick as one of their main strike bowlers to bowl teams out. I'd be very interested to see Caddick's record against Australia over the years.... I'd be guessing his bowling average would be around 35 to 40 against us.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Not far off Sein I think it's around 32-33 at the moment.
Boof, he's hungrier than Junior.
Originally posted by SeinDude
Not to mention the fact that England rely on bowlers such as Andrew Caddick as one of their main strike bowlers to bowl teams out. I'd be very interested to see Caddick's record against Australia over the years.... I'd be guessing his bowling average would be around 35 to 40 against us.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
The thread starts with discussion on Waugh and Lehman ....
and ends up with Slax and SeinDude slagging off England ......
With respect .... does Australia's performance relative to England DEFINE Australia's sense of itself?
:rolleyes:
Brett Li
4 Jul 2002, 22:39
Originally posted by NYPomme
The thread starts with discussion on Waugh and Lehman ....
and ends up with Slax and SeinDude slagging off England ......
With respect .... does Australia's performance relative to England DEFINE Australia's sense of itself?
:rolleyes:
I know. No matter how good they become, they still can't shake that inferiority complex. There, there.....bless:D
London Dave
5 Jul 2002, 00:21
True Brett! I suppose its the fact that there is nothing worse than being beaten by the poms (unless perhaps its by the kiwis!)
for the record..
Cadd nob
Bowling 207wkts @ 29.20 BB 7-46 sr 58.1 rpo 3.01
v Aus 44 wkts @ 42.50 BB 5/42 sr 69.6 rpo 3.66
Interestingly, he has never played a test match in Australia, which may make him an unkown quantity in some respects.
Originally posted by NYPomme
The thread starts with discussion on Waugh and Lehman ....
and ends up with Slax and SeinDude slagging off England ......
With respect .... does Australia's performance relative to England DEFINE Australia's sense of itself?
:rolleyes:
I agree this thread shouldn't have veered off as it did. However there is some truth in Seiney's comment about Caddick, his record is better with the bat than the ball against us!
His first crack at Aussie conditions, we'll see how he goes I guess.
Originally posted by Briedis
By the way, what's wrong with a test batting average of 40-odd? England only have two 40-plus batsmen and Mark Waugh has been able to average over 40 for over 10 years.
I know there are no other ways to compare players, but averages have different weight from nation to nation.
IE - Mark Waugh's 40-41 average is poor because he hasn't had to face McGrath, Gillespie, Warne, Hughes, Reid, Reiffel, Fleming in the international arena. Far from being a failure, but I also tend to think he has underachieved, and if he had to face McGrath his Test career might have been over a lot earlier. McGrath and Gillespie get the early wickets where the less mentally steeled bowlers don't.
Graham Thorpe's 40-odd is good because he never gets the chance to slog Malcolm, Silverwood, Hoggard, Illingworth, Collingwood etc etc etc in the international arena. Similarly Andy Flower's huge average would be much a) higher if he got to play against Zimbabwe! but b) lower if the Zimmies played against Australia more often.
IMHO, comparing batsmen from different countries is almost the same as comparing different eras... there are elements of similarity, that some players don't get to directly oppose others, and when there are 6 guns in one team, and 6 duds in another, it can make a difference over a career to play 10-20 Tests against that team.
Originally posted by NYPomme
The thread starts with discussion on Waugh and Lehman ....
and ends up with Slax and SeinDude slagging off England ......
With respect .... does Australia's performance relative to England DEFINE Australia's sense of itself?
Not it defines England's lack of depth. At the moment England would be more than glad to have players of the calibire of Leahman & McGill only play first class cricket. England have had a serious problem finding any real class batsmen who can score regularly at test level. Ok many can do it at county level but just can't take the step up.
The problem for Australia which I started with is a query of why is it so hard for the selectors to drop a batsman who has been in the team for a while but is shockingly out of form. Mark Waugh is only the latest example here are previous ones:
Mark Taylor; David Boon; Geoff Marsh; Bob Simpson.
Richie Benaud
7 Jul 2002, 22:54
Originally posted by Slax
Not it defines England's lack of depth. At the moment England would be more than glad to have players of the calibire of Leahman & McGill only play first class cricket. England have had a serious problem finding any real class batsmen who can score regularly at test level. Ok many can do it at county level but just can't take the step up.
The problem for Australia which I started with is a query of why is it so hard for the selectors to drop a batsman who has been in the team for a while but is shockingly out of form. Mark Waugh is only the latest example here are previous ones:
Mark Taylor; David Boon; Geoff Marsh; Bob Simpson.
It's much easier to get into the Australian team than it is to be left out!
Originally posted by Richie Benaud
It's much easier to get into the Australian team than it is to be left out!
Unless you're a batsman and from South Australia.
Originally posted by Richie Bennaud
It's much easier to get into the Australian team than it is to be left out!
Try telling Jamie Siddons, Jamie Cox, DeVenito that. They well ask you where there chances to get a bagging green where. The problem in not playing for NSW.
Originally posted by Slax
Not it defines England's lack of depth. At the moment England would be more than glad to have players of the calibire of Leahman & McGill only play first class cricket. England have had a serious problem finding any real class batsmen who can score regularly at test level. Ok many can do it at county level but just can't take the step up.
England have just won a test series convincingly - with the batsmen performing admirably ....and you decide to slag England's batsmen off ... on a thread about 'Waugh or Lehman'?
So your point is ....... England don't have the same strength in depth as the Australian batting lineup the No.1 batting side in the world?
Yup - I agree with you there. Name another side who does? South Africa? West Indies? Sri Lanka don't - they got bowled out by Caddick et al.... they must be shocking :rolleyes:
Maybe I'm just paranoid - but I find it amazing we seem to lower ourselves to comparing England to the Australian team at every opportunity .....why the need for all the player-hatred?
Do you need to hear ' they ain't as good a us' ringing in your ears to get through the day, mate?
Originally posted by NYPomme
Maybe I'm just paranoid - but I find it amazing we seem to lower ourselves to comparing England to the Australian team at every opportunity .....why the need for all the player-hatred?
No we just really hate you.
Brett Li
9 Jul 2002, 22:38
Originally posted by Slax
No we just really hate you.
you live in London!?
:confused:
NYPomme
10 Jul 2002, 02:35
Originally posted by Slax
No we just really hate you.
Be my friend, please :)
Brett Li
10 Jul 2002, 03:15
Originally posted by NYPomme
Be my friend, please :)
Easy on Slax, Pomme. He's bullied at work for being an aussie.
SeinDude
10 Jul 2002, 13:03
Originally posted by BT
I agree this thread shouldn't have veered off as it did. However there is some truth in Seiney's comment about Caddick, his record is better with the bat than the ball against us!
His first crack at Aussie conditions, we'll see how he goes I guess.
Matthew Hayden & the rest of the Aussie batsmen will absolutely smash Caddick to all parts of the Australian grounds this summer in my opinion!! If I were Andrew Caddick, I'd be trying to turn the sprinklers on the pitchess the night before the games so it will juice it up for his seam bowling, otherwise he wont do enough with the ball to worry the Australian batting order. ;);)
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
msfc_28
10 Jul 2002, 15:39
I believe that Mark Waugh should get another chance in the line up.but Mark doesn't perform under pressure put Darren leahman back into the side.
NYPomme
10 Jul 2002, 18:07
Originally posted by SeinDude
Matthew Hayden & the rest of the Aussie batsmen will absolutely smash Caddick to all parts of the Australian grounds this summer in my opinion!! If I were Andrew Caddick, I'd be trying to turn the sprinklers on the pitchess the night before the games so it will juice it up for his seam bowling, otherwise he wont do enough with the ball to worry the Australian batting order. ;);)
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Right .... must have missed where the thread said 'What will Waugh, Lehman, etc. do to Caddick and the England boys?'
Anyone able to help?
Seems to be a popular topic anyhow :rolleyes:
SeinDude
10 Jul 2002, 19:16
Originally posted by NYPomme
Right .... must have missed where the thread said 'What will Waugh, Lehman, etc. do to Caddick and the England boys?'
Anyone able to help?
Seems to be a popular topic anyhow :rolleyes:
Isn't it funny how the Poms can't seem to cope with topics being extended like most discussions ususally do?? Come on guys, it's all good fun!! :D:D
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Brett Li
10 Jul 2002, 21:14
Originally posted by SeinDude
Isn't it funny how the Poms can't seem to cope with topics being extended like most discussions ususally do?? Come on guys, it's all good fun!! :D:D
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Isn't funny how the aussies still acknowledge the colonial yoke?. Come on guys, it's all good fun
Cheers!!:cool:
Brett Li
Originally posted by Brett Li
you live in London!?
Yes. I even go to some of the matches over here when I have the time to do so. I've been to some of the one-dayers with people I work with, the only problem is the indians and Sri Lankans make so much bloody noise.
Come on Pomme you should be celebrating the good win you guys had last night over India. Never know you may even have found yourself a proper all-rounder in Irani.
Booze Hound
11 Jul 2002, 00:23
Slax
You should've put a :) after your last comment on Irani.
Found an all-rounder!!!!!!
Irani's a poor man's Derek Pringle.
Brett Li
11 Jul 2002, 00:50
Originally posted by Booze Hound
Slax
You should've put a :) after your last comment on Irani.
Found an all-rounder!!!!!!
Irani's a poor man's Derek Pringle.
Ronnie Irani, a poor man's Simon O'Donnell
Briedis
11 Jul 2002, 10:31
Originally posted by Brett Li
Ronnie Irani, a poor man's Simon O'Donnell
You don't rate Irani?
I think there is a lot to like about him. There's a bit of 'Beefy' about him. I like him and reckon he's a good player.
Destructive
11 Jul 2002, 11:20
Originally posted by kretchy
Lehmann.
Agreed.
SeinDude
11 Jul 2002, 12:55
Originally posted by Briedis
You don't rate Irani?
I think there is a lot to like about him. There's a bit of 'Beefy' about him. I like him and reckon he's a good player.
From what I've seen of Irani so far he isn't a bad prospect for England. He bowls wicket to wicket and would be even better if England could find a keeper who's confident to stand up at the stumps to him, as this would then mean the batsman can't jump down the track and change the length, making it even harder to score off him.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Brett Li
11 Jul 2002, 19:28
Originally posted by SeinDude
From what I've seen of Irani so far he isn't a bad prospect for England. He bowls wicket to wicket and would be even better if England could find a keeper who's confident to stand up at the stumps to him, as this would then mean the batsman can't jump down the track and change the length, making it even harder to score off him.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Booze Hound,
This has to be the most sophisticated use of sarcasm I have ever heard for a long time.....I'm hoping:confused:
NYPomme
12 Jul 2002, 16:33
Originally posted by Briedis
You don't rate Irani?
I think there is a lot to like about him. There's a bit of 'Beefy' about him. I like him and reckon he's a good player.
:eek:
My jaw just hit the floor.............HARD!:
SeinDude
12 Jul 2002, 17:07
Originally posted by Brett Li
This has to be the most sophisticated use of sarcasm I have ever heard for a long time.....I'm hoping:confused:
Brett Li,
You probably seen more of Irani than we have here in Australia, but I thought he's performed quite well in this current series against India and Sri Lanka.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
Brett Li
12 Jul 2002, 23:34
Originally posted by SeinDude
Brett Li,
You probably seen more of Irani than we have here in Australia, but I thought he's performed quite well in this current series against India and Sri Lanka.
Cheers!! :cool:
SeinDude
the only things Irani shares with Botham are his Gut and he takes wickets with crap balls. Botham just took a hell of alot more.
Irani will fade as fast as he arrived, trust me....ask Booze Hound or NYPomme, they'll tell you soon enough. Irani was picked as a short term measure, he just got 2 gold awards in the BH oneday comp and the selectors were running out of interest and ideas.
If Ronaldo made it to Aus, he would be Australias best weapon.
Briedis
16 Jul 2002, 01:17
Originally posted by NYPomme
:eek:
My jaw just hit the floor.............HARD!:
Well, I must admit I have only seen his performances in the Natwest series, but he has played far better than Collingwood who I have seen a few times. How does that bloke get a game?
Brett Li
16 Jul 2002, 02:11
Originally posted by Briedis
Well, I must admit I have only seen his performances in the Natwest series, but he has played far better than Collingwood who I have seen a few times. How does that bloke get a game?
Mate, both are toilet. Irani gets stumpings bowling down the leg-side. Let's not talk anymore on this very silly subject!.
Briedis
16 Jul 2002, 10:30
Originally posted by Brett Li
Mate, both are toilet. Irani gets stumpings bowling down the leg-side. Let's not talk anymore on this very silly subject!.
I reckon they should send Irani over here and see how he goes against a good attack on wickets similar to South African conditions. I reckon he is worth testing out for the World Cup. England would have a huge advantage with two all-rounders in their One-day side. And if you include Tudor it is a very long batting line up as he is no mug....
Brett Li
16 Jul 2002, 17:08
Originally posted by Briedis
I reckon they should send Irani over here and see how he goes against a good attack on wickets similar to South African conditions. I reckon he is worth testing out for the World Cup. England would have a huge advantage with two all-rounders in their One-day side. And if you include Tudor it is a very long batting line up as he is no mug....
Briedis,
I enjoy much of what you write on this, and the league board (albeit a little too Manley focused), but you are sooo far off the mark with Irani. I will be in Sydney for the Ashes and shall be one embarrassed Englishman if that joke makes it out there.
Agree with you on the tudor call. Now he is a player......(once bowled him out as a youth:D )
Booze Hound
16 Jul 2002, 18:44
But 'Brett'. here is a four year age difference between the two of you.
Maybe you were 16, he was 12?
Brett Li
16 Jul 2002, 18:50
Originally posted by Booze Hound
But 'Brett'. here is a four year age difference between the two of you.
Maybe you were 16, he was 12?
you were 26 at the time and never hit his Timbers!:D
Booze Hound
18 Jul 2002, 23:52
I saved myself for his brother, who was rated the better player before injuries hit.
Brett Li
19 Jul 2002, 00:11
Originally posted by Booze Hound
I saved myself for his brother, who was rated the better player before injuries hit.
Ray tudor never played against Honor Oak 4th XI you lieing little git
Booze Hound
19 Jul 2002, 01:25
It was rather above that level.
And if you don't mind I'm a big git:)
NYPomme
23 Jul 2002, 11:46
Irani: Half the player Simon O'Donnell was...
......and that's saying something).
Hank Jones
23 Jul 2002, 13:47
Originally posted by NYPomme
Irani: Half the player Simon O'Donnell was...
......and that's saying something).
Jesus!! Half a hack.
Honestly though Irani is rubbish.