Greatest Player of all Time?

[oscarheel]

Which of these greats do you rate as the best?

[The Teflon Dean]

Matthews from Carey.

I know Hird was a gun, but I don't think he belongs next to the other three.

[Spore]

Hird?
Laffo

What on earth made you include Hird in that list.
Plenty of other players who could have been included before Hird.

[Sainters08]

lol Jimmy Hird is no where near as good as any of the others listed.

try Robert Harvey! :thumbsu:

[greatwhiteshark]

Hird was a champion player but he does not site next to Ablett, Matthews and Carey.
Don't really know much about players in the VFL pre 1980 so my opinion is quite modern based.
But on stats then Hadyn Bunton Senior surely must be the greatest of them all, didn't he win 3 brownlows, 3 sandovers and a magary???

[micky_11]

Wayne Carey, no contest!

[Ron The Bear]

Easy choice - Ablett, the only player capable of absolutely anything on a football field.

[DarwinRoo]

Easy choice - Ablett, the only player capable of absolutely anything on a football field.

Except leading his team to a Premiership.

[RUNVS]

Both Tony Lockett and Bob Skilton should be in that poll.

[roger explosion]

the fact that Stuart Cochrane hasn't been suggested yet simply disgusts me

[DarwinRoo]

the fact that Stuart Cochrane hasn't been suggested yet simply disgusts me

I agree. He loved to play against the Power when he was at North.

[The Teflon Dean]

Easy choice - Ablett, the only player capable of absolutely anything on a football field.

Anything except bring half a dozen team mates into the match.

This is why Carey, and to a lesser extent Matthews, were the better players.

[walhawk]

Matthews, Ablett & Carey are immortals of the game like Whitten & Polly Farmer.

Hird is on the next level with Brereton, Blight, Jesaulenko, etc.

In my time

1. Matthews
2. Daylight
3. Carey
4. Ablett
5. Dunstall
6. Lockett

[Snuka]

Hird?
Laffo

What on earth made you include Hird in that list.
Plenty of other players who could have been included before Hird.

You know exactly why he did it. Same reason sainters08 suggested he could be replaced with Harvery. ;)

Agree wouldn't class Hird with the likes of those 3. Ablett for me, maybe just because of the fact he made me become interested in football.
Off topic but I remember Hird as a tacker playing on Ablett one day.

[roger explosion]

I agree. He loved to play against the Power when he was at North.
i think he just loved to play, doesn't matter who for. his passion for the game shone through into his silky smooth skills, cool head under pressure, and lightning fast pace.

[Snuka]

Anything except bring half a dozen team mates into the match.

This is why Carey, and to a lesser extent Matthews, were the better players.

Bah, that is rot mate. Why we he even bother to bring teammates into the game? He was a freak and a goal kicking machine and for most of his career, his job was to kick goals and that's what he did and kicked a heap of him. That's what football is about. There's no points for 'bringing a teammate into a game'.

[Kochie 16]

Matthew by a fair margin.

It's soo typical an essendon supporter made this thread to even rate hird among those three. Even though hirdy was a great player, he's not that great! IMO Voss >>>>>> Hird!

[DarwinRoo]

i think he just loved to play, doesn't matter who for. his passion for the game shone through into his silky smooth skills, cool head under pressure, and lightning fast pace.

Its a disgrace how this bloke never won a brownlow.

[roger explosion]

It's soo typical an essendon supporter made this thread to even rate hird among those three

...

IMO Voss >>>>>> Hird!
Club: Brisbane
lol. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocracy)

[flukeyluke]

The only reason Matthews wont win this pole is because the majority of forum members are kids and would never have seen him play.

Matthews by so far it aint funny.

[The Teflon Dean]

Bah, that is rot mate. Why we he even bother to bring teammates into the game? He was a freak and a goal kicking machine and for most of his career, his job was to kick goals and that's what he did and kicked a heap of him. That's what football is about. There's no points for 'bringing a teammate into a game'.

Not rot, fact.

I'd guesstimate Carey had 500 goal assists.

Matthews gets the nod ahead of him as the only player in history that would hold down 2 positions in the AFL team of the century.

Dunstall/Ablett/Blight all vying for third place.

[Kochie 16]

lol. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypocracy)
What? I never said that Voss was in the same class as Matthews, Carey, ect. I just said he was better than Hird.:eek:

Please forgive me but I just blasphemed!

[DarwinRoo]

Bah, that is rot mate. Why we he even bother to bring teammates into the game? He was a freak and a goal kicking machine and for most of his career, his job was to kick goals and that's what he did and kicked a heap of him. That's what football is about. There's no points for 'bringing a teammate into a game'.

Football is a team game. Teams win flags not individuals. No matter how individually brilliant Ablett was Geelong didnt win a flag in his time at the club. That is why i rate Carey higher than Ablett.

[Ron The Bear]

Anything except bring half a dozen team mates into the match.

This is why Carey, and to a lesser extent Matthews, were the better players.

I'm talking about beating blokes with individual ability, be it standing on their heads, burning them for pace on the lead or bouncing the ball down the wing, kicking the ball out of sight with either foot, creating goals from half-chances, or putting opponents out of action with a bone-jarring bump.

Carey was a master at making his teammates better, but for sheer brilliance he sits in Ablett's wake.

[roger explosion]

What? I never said that Voss was in the same class as Matthews, Carey, ect. I just said he was better than Hird.:eek:

Please forgive me but I just blasphemed!
no, just saying it's funny you called out someone for being biased because of their club, and then you said that

[Ryder Is God]

Wayne Carey.

[geelong_crazy26]

both ablett and mathews were before my time, but i have seen losy of tapes of them and ablett seems to be a mile ahead of anyone else, just the goals, marks and bits of play he did was unbeleivable, why do people have carey and mathews ahead of him?

[Blues_Man]

Gee this is novel ...how come we have never had a poll like this one on Bf before :rolleyes:

FWIW I will repeat what i stated in the other 100 threads of this ilk .
for me Mathews was the best player closely followed by Carey and Ablett .

[The Teflon Dean]

I'm talking about beating blokes with individual ability, be it standing on their heads, burning them for pace on the lead or bouncing the ball down the wing, kicking the ball out of sight with either foot, or putting opponents out of action with a bone-jarring bump.

Carey was a master at making his teammates better, but for sheer brilliance he sits in Ablett's wake.

I'm happy with that synopsis, but if I had the power to go back in time and swap them, I wouldn't do it .:thumbsu:

Give me the consummate team man every time.:thumbsu:

[geelong_crazy26]

Football is a team game. Teams win flags not individuals. No matter how individually brilliant Ablett was Geelong didnt win a flag in his time at the club. That is why i rate Carey higher than Ablett.

so does that give current geelong players precedence over other players atm who havent won premierships when it come to making top 10 lists ,the brownlow and other awards?

[DarwinRoo]

both ablett and mathews were before my time, but i have seen losy of tapes of them and ablett seems to be a mile ahead of anyone else, just the goals, marks and bits of play he did was unbeleivable, why do people have carey and mathews ahead of him?

Because they won something called the Premiership and helped their team do it. Ablett didnt.

[Kochie 16]

no, just saying it's funny you called out someone for being biased because of their club, and then you said that
Fair enough then, but I was just saying that Voss was better than hird and voss had a long way to go to reach them 3!

[Blues_Man]

both ablett and mathews were before my time, but i have seen losy of tapes of them and ablett seems to be a mile ahead of anyone else, just the goals, marks and bits of play he did was unbeleivable, why do people have carey and mathews ahead of him?

If he was before your time then you should just say that and move along ...now you have just made your self look like the typical BF nuffy ..who will just nominate their team player due to bias.

I have seen all 3 play ..and let me tell you ..Mathews was better than Carey ..and Carey was better than Ablett .

[greatwhiteshark]

For me Ablett by a street. Kicked 1000 goals and only played FF for his last 6-7 years.

Absolute freak and could dothings on the field that Matthews and Carey could only dream about.

[Blues_Man]

Fair enough then, but I was just saying that Voss was better than hird and voss had a long way to go to reach them 3!

Well i disagree with you ...I am unbiased and hate Essenden with a passion ..but Hird was just as good if not better than Voss .

[Ron The Bear]

I'm happy with that synopsis, but if I had the power to go back in time and swap them, I wouldn't do it .:thumbsu:

Give me the consummate team man every time.:thumbsu:

Fair enough, if Carey had been a Tiger I might be arguing his case.

[Blues_Man]

For me Ablett by a street. Kicked 1000 goals and only played FF for his last 6-7 years.

Absolute freak and could dothings on the field that Matthews and Carey could only dream about.

See this is where all posters should be asked to state their age ...a lot of kids like this one have never seen Mathews play .

[greatwhiteshark]

Chris Langford the best Key position backman I have seen.
Chris judd the best midfielder I have seen
Wayne Carey the best Key position forward I have seen

Gary Ablett the best footballer I have seen.

[geelong_crazy26]

[quote=Blues_Man;9634633]If he was before your time then you should just say that and move along ...now you have just made your self look like the typical BF nuffy ..who will just nominate their team player due to bias.

I have seen all 3 play ..and let me tell you ..Mathews was better than Carey ..and Carey was better than Ablett .[/quote

where did i say I voted? I have seen enough of the tapes to know that ablett could do things that others couldnt dream of doing,you know what the argument was for letting ablett into the hall of fame? it was because he put more buts on seats than anyone else in the history of the game

[geelong_crazy26]

For me Ablett by a street. Kicked 1000 goals and only played FF for his last 6-7 years.

Absolute freak and could dothings on the field that Matthews and Carey could only dream about.

that says it all

[DarwinRoo]

For me Ablett by a street. Kicked 1000 goals and only played FF for his last 6-7 years.

Absolute freak and could dothings on the field that Matthews and Carey could only dream about.

Daicos could do things that Matthews and Carey couldnt but that doesnt mean he is a better player than them.

Wayne Carey was a KPP with the skills of a midfielder.

[Scarlett Letter]

Which of these greats do you rate as the best?

Yeah, James Hird in the top 4 best players of all time, trust that from a f---ing Essendon supporter.

You've got to be kidding me mate.

[greatwhiteshark]

See this is where all posters should be asked to state their age ...a lot of kids like this one have never seen Mathews play .
Mate I saw plenty of Mathews but mainly at the end of his career in the late 70's and early 80's, no kid here champ. just don't agree with you so what is the problem with that. remember that back in the late 70's and early 80's the VFL was about as important to us West Aussies as a game of chess in russia. We watched the winners and thats it.
It was all WAFL for us back then. Respect your opinion but just don't agree.

[Snuka]

Not rot, fact.

I'd guesstimate Carey had 500 goal assists.

Matthews gets the nod ahead of him as the only player in history that would hold down 2 positions in the AFL team of the century.

Dunstall/Ablett/Blight all vying for third place.

Well Ablett kicked 300 more goals from less games so as far as contributing the goals required for your team to win a game, that makes him pretty even.

Not sure where you've pulled that number from anyway but fact or not, IMO you can't say a player was worse because they 'didn't bring there teammates into the game' as long as they got their job done and contributed to their team winning football games.

[DarwinRoo]

Well Ablett kicked 300 more goals from less games so as far as contributing the goals required for your team to win a game, that makes him pretty even.

Not sure where you've pulled that number from anyway but fact or not, IMO you can't say a player was worse because they 'didn't bring there teammates into the game' as long as they got their job done and contributed to their team winning football games.

Yes he can say that because people have been using the fact that Ablett was a better player because he took more speccys than Matthews and Carey.

[Cheetah]

If the measure is based on, not only what a player has achieved but on what he has overcome to continually compete at the top of his game, then James Hird is a fantastic choice.

I saw all 4 play and a fit Hird would have been the player I would choose.

All great players but all very different.

[Bomber32]

Gary Ablett is the best player I have ever seen.

[Snuka]

Yes he can say that because people have been using the fact that Ablett was a better player because he took more speccys than Matthews and Carey.

Oh, yes i'm sure everyone has been 'fooled' into thinking Ablett was great just because he took speccies.

I never said he was a better player and i'm nowhere near qualified to say he was the best ever, I just think that the 'team player' bit is irrelevant in this case. Ablett never looked like a team player because he never needed to be. He would kick goals. That was his job and he did it as good as any i've ever seen do their job on the football field.

[Kochie 16]

Leigh Matthews: Over 900 career goals as a Ruck Rover/ FOrwards Pocket player. Voted by many as the greatest player of all time. Team Off the Centurary Right Forward Pocket player, Coleman Medalist yet never won a brownlow.

[Scarlett Letter]

If the measure is based on, not only what a player has achieved but on what he has overcome to continually compete at the top of his game, then James Hird is a fantastic choice.

I saw all 4 play and a fit Hird would have been the player I would choose.

All great players but all very different.

A fit Hird ahead of a fit ABLETT, CAREY, OR MATTHEWS. I don't care if it's just your opinion, but it is completely and utterly rediculous, do you see the names here. Hird isn't even Essendon's best player ever.

[geelong_crazy26]

Because they won something called the Premiership and helped their team do it. Ablett didnt.

ablett brought people to the game and turned lots of people into geelong fans, something clearly that carey never did

[walhawk]

Matthews won 8 B & Fs in what was consistently a top 3 side during his careers (4 flags).

His best was not as good as Ablett but he was unbelievably consistent. Parkin rates him the best ever simply because he influenced the result of more matches more than anyone else in history.

Like Hird, when the game was in the balance you just knew he would be in the right place at the right time to kick the winning goal. But he did it all game and every week.
Like Judd he would motor through the midfield doing as he liked. But Judd never kicked 8 goals playing midfield. Matthews would regularly kick 5 - 6 goals playing on the ball.
Like Lockett or Carey he was immovable when going for a mark and would never miss even though he could only kick 45 metres.

[DarwinRoo]

ablett brought people to the game and turned lots of people into geelong fans, something clearly that carey never did

Thats why Geelong are the most popular team in Australia right. :rolleyes:

Ablett can bring as many fans to games as he wants while Carey can be proud that he helped bring 2 Premiership cups back to Arden St.

[philhawk]

Matthews

Carey
Ablett

Hird

[Skeppersap]

Thats why Geelong are the most popular team in Australia right. :rolleyes:

Ablett can bring as many fans to games as he wants while Carey can be proud that he helped bring 2 Premiership cups back to Arden St.

You are an absolute joke mate, an absolute joke. I like how you keep saying that Carey brought premierships back to NM, which makes him better, yet you conveniently ignore the post which follows on from yours that Geelongs current players must be greats of the game because they won a premiership. You just ignore this.

Once again, you are proving that you are possibly THE WORST poster on Big Footy.

By your logic, Micheal Tuck is the best ever footballer.

[Ron The Bear]

Matthews won 8 B & Fs in what was consistently a top 3 side during his careers (4 flags).

His best was not as good as Ablett but he was unbelievably consistent. Parkin rates him the best ever simply because he influenced the result of more matches more than anyone else in history.

Like Hird, when the game was in the balance you just knew he would be in the right place at the right time to kick the winning goal. But he did it all game and every week.
Like Judd he would motor through the midfield doing as he liked. But Judd never kicked 8 goals playing midfield. Matthews would regularly kick 5 - 6 goals playing on the ball.
Like Lockett or Carey he was immovable when going for a mark and would never miss even though he could only kick 45 metres.

At 56% accuracy, Matthews is a fair way behind the other three on conversion rates.

During the Crimmins era (pre-1976) he spent a lot of time in a forward pocket and I can remember reading a player profile in 1977 in which he named Wayne Judson (back pocket) as his toughest opponent.

[GO EAGLES]

for me, Carey in 1993 was freakish. At the time I thought I had never seen a player jump into packs like he did and take marks in those situations.

There has never been a player like that and since there hasn't been one either although Jonathon Brown does those things sometimes.

Chris Judd if he continues the way he played at the Eagles might be described as the greatest player ever, simply because no one has had that amount strength and speed to burst through packs at clearences, ever . At the same time he does those things with the flair and intelligence of someone like Michael Jordan.

Abblett always did freakish things when unexpected, but for mine .

the greatest player was a draw between.

Carey, Ablett, Judd, Peter Matera (in his prime) - didn't see that much of Mathews unfortunately

[DarwinRoo]

You are an absolute joke mate, an absolute joke. I like how you keep saying that Carey brought premierships back to NM, which makes him better, yet you conveniently ignore the post which follows on from yours that Geelongs current players must be greats of the game because they won a premiership. You just ignore this.

Once again, you are proving that you are possibly THE WORST poster on Big Footy.

By your logic, Micheal Tuck is the best ever footballer.

My logic says that of the 3 great players in Ablett, Carey and Matthews that Carey and Matthews are better than Ablett because a great footballer is not just one of freakish ability. Carey and Lethal were great leaders. I saw Carey take many games by the scruff of the neck and get the Kangaroos over the line countless times. And you probably have too.

And there is a big difference between helping your side win a flag as opposed to being in the right place at the right time ala Cam Mooney in 1999 or Shannon Byrnes in 2007.

[Port_GW]

According to Bruns and Barrie Robran, Matthews was great.....a great SNIPER!!

[Big Nasty]

for me, Carey in 1993 was freakish. At the time I thought I had never seen a player jump into packs like he did and take marks in those situations.

There has never been a player like that and since there hasn't been one either although Jonathon Brown does those things sometimes.

Chris Judd if he continues the way he played at the Eagles might be described as the greatest player ever, simply because no one has had that amount strength and speed to burst through packs at clearences, ever . At the same time he does those things with the flair and intelligence of someone like Michael Jordan.

Abblett always did freakish things when unexpected, but for mine .

the greatest player was a draw between.

Carey, Ablett, Judd, Peter Matera (in his prime) - didn't see that much of Mathews unfortunately
Which is whom Ablett got mentioned to American supporters as the Jordan of AFL (specifically by commentators in 1993/94)

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

[quote=Blues_Man;9634633]If he was before your time then you should just say that and move along ...now you have just made your self look like the typical BF nuffy ..who will just nominate their team player due to bias.

I have seen all 3 play ..and let me tell you ..Mathews was better than Carey ..and Carey was better than Ablett .[/quote

where did i say I voted? I have seen enough of the tapes to know that ablett could do things that others couldnt dream of doing,you know what the argument was for letting ablett into the hall of fame? it was because he put more buts on seats than anyone else in the history of the game

Apart from the fact that he can't even quote, speak or spell properly - please kick this dumb **** off Big Footy for all time - FFS I work with people with disabilities all day; I don't need to come home to one of them.

If you are basing you naieve ****ed up opinion on a two minute highlight package to prove your point all I can say is.......well done GC_26, first bit of research you have ever done.

Your opinion is worth about the same as a mobile phone conversation on a motorbike whilst smoking a Peter Stuyversant.

Yep, that's **** all.

[Seethus]

Apart from the fact that he can't even quote, speak or spell properly - please kick this dumb **** off Big Footy for all time - FFS I work with people with disabilities all day; I don't need to come home to one of them.

If you are basing you naieve ****ed up opinion on a two minute highlight package to prove your point all I can say is.......well done GC_26, first bit of research you have ever done.

Your opinion is worth about the same as a mobile phone conversation on a motorbike whilst smoking a Peter Stuyversant.

Yep, that's **** all.

If this man doesn't get carded for a blatant unprovoked personal, politically incorrect, inflamatory, offensive post then I dont see what else he could do :p

Anyway obviously I cant comment on Matthews, far away before my time. Generation gap you see.
But anyway Ablett and Carey are the kings of modern football, noone could stop them, and both were spectacular. Giants of the game both!:thumbsu: Duck and GOD

[DCFCFAN84]

Wayne Carey, no contest!

I agree completely.

[nut]

Gary Ablett was the best player To have played the Game, who gives a shit about the players around them!!!!! it's not his fault they were crap.

Watch the State games Ablett played in, the 89' grand final (nearly won the game off his own boot.)
This Carey thing being better than Ablett makes me laugh....

Ablett played off a wing and still kicked 60 odd goals in a season.

In his last 81 matches he kicked 444 goals at an average of 5.5 goals a game. His last season kicked 69 in just 17 games!!! how was Carey's last season!!! OH thats right he did sweet nothing......

He was pure brilliance and Power, best mark I have ever seen, and best kick I have ever seen. No one ever beat him.

I cant comment to much on Matthew's cause I didn't see him play much but for some to be better than Ablett than they must have been F#$%ing good, and nothing that I can see from Matthew's strikes me that he was better, on par but not better.

[geelong_crazy26]

My logic says that of the 3 great players in Ablett, Carey and Matthews that Carey and Matthews are better than Ablett because a great footballer is not just one of freakish ability. Carey and Lethal were great leaders. I saw Carey take many games by the scruff of the neck and get the Kangaroos over the line countless times. And you probably have too.

And there is a big difference between helping your side win a flag as opposed to being in the right place at the right time ala Cam Mooney in 1999 or Shannon Byrnes in 2007.

and theres such a thing as being in the wrong place at the wrong time, if ablett played for north or hawthorn he would of won many premierships as well.just because mathews and carey are better leaders does not mean at all that they are better players at all, tom harley has the best leadership skills in the afl but he is far from being the best player in the comp

[geelong_crazy26]

Thats why Geelong are the most popular team in Australia right. :rolleyes:

Ablett can bring as many fans to games as he wants while Carey can be proud that he helped bring 2 Premiership cups back to Arden St.

they are along way ahead of north:thumbsu:

[nut]

My logic says that of the 3 great players in Ablett, Carey and Matthews that Carey and Matthews are better than Ablett because a great footballer is not just one of freakish ability. Carey and Lethal were great leaders. I saw Carey take many games by the scruff of the neck and get the Kangaroos over the line countless times. And you probably have too.

And there is a big difference between helping your side win a flag as opposed to being in the right place at the right time ala Cam Mooney in 1999 or Shannon Byrnes in 2007.

one of freakish ability. ???????????????????????????? How do explain the 1021 Goals he kicked in just 242 Games!!!!!!!! Norm Smiths dont get handed out lightly, especially to players in losing sides or do All-Australians 7 to be exact, 3 coleman medals, 5th in the all time goal kicking, becoming the only player to kick over 100 in three consecutive seasons all in the era of Dunstall and Lockett not bad for a player who only stood 185 cm tall, Mark of the Century, Most Goals in a Grand Final (9) .....etc....etc....

Sorry but no other player comes close...

[Bollox]

Putting Hird in that group was a cheap attempt.

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

If this man doesn't get carded for a blatant unprovoked personal, politically incorrect, inflamatory, offensive post then I dont see what else he could do :p

Anyway obviously I cant comment on Matthews, far away before my time. Generation gap you see.
But anyway Ablett and Carey are the kings of modern football, noone could stop them, and both were spectacular. Giants of the game both!:thumbsu: Duck and GOD

Sorry, didn't realise you wanted to be a mod.

Sticking up for your Geelong bretheren is great - when it's worth the effort.

Jumping into beds with idiots makes you look stupid.

[FOOOOTY]

Carey was absoloutely unbeleivable. Got to see a most North Melbourne games between 92-98, never have i seen someone that has somuch effect on a game.

He would be first class all day easily beating his opponent, and then when required he would turn it on, a 10 minute spell where he was beyond belief, like the football talked to him. Boos made him play better, fantastic leader of men.

Never ever again will we see somebody as good in a 1 on 1 contest as Wayne Carey.

[Moo]

Hayden Bunton Senior clearly by any standard is the greatest of all time ...unless you are limiting it to players you have actually seen.

Records don't lie -

3 Brownlows and 3 Sandovers ...no one else is even close.

Had to sit out his first season in the VFL at age 19
Won 2 Brownlows in his first 2 seasons (1931 & 1932)
Capt of Fitzroy at age 21 (1932)
R/up Brownlow in 1934
Brownlow medalist in 1935
Captain/Coach of Fitzroy in 1936 at 25
Leading goal scorer for Fitzroy 1936 & 1937
Went to WA (as there was more money available) and was made Captain Coach of Subiaco in 1938
Won the Sandover medal in 1938, 1939 and 1941 (72 games and he was nearly best on ground in all of them!)

His career was then effectively ended by WWII when he was 30. He did play for Port Adelaide in 1945 suggesting he may well have had a few games left in him

3 Brownlows and 3 Sandovers in 11 seasons..in a career that started late, ended early and with the added pressure of having to grab the captaincy and even coaching reigns early....plus go forward to help an ailing Roys in the 36/37 seasons. Before you say that is old news it was easier back then - why did no one else even come close to doing it?

Did I see him no so it is very hard ....but my Grandad who was a keen follower said he was better than anyone else he had ever seen play by a long way. Saw him get the absolute crud belted out of him and was laid out against Souths one game and still got a lazy 30+ and killed us said my Pop.

If you are limiting it to recent times ....Matthews and then Carey IMHO

My old man would have gone Polly, Todd and then Matthews (to quote him Polly never beaten, todd never beaten, Matthews never beaten - Carey - Jackovich beat him regulary).

[Carlton_Blues]

the fact that Stuart Cochrane hasn't been suggested yet simply disgusts me

who?

- nuff said -

[tazhawk]

Matthew by a fair margin.

I

100 % spot on.

Lethal was and still is the greatest player in the history of the game.

[Cat for Life]

who?

- nuff said -


lol, this made me laugh

[Ron The Bear]

According to Bruns and Barrie Robran, Matthews was great.....a great SNIPER!!

He was that too. I'm staggered to read how he is made out to be a scrupulously fair player in The Encyclopedia Of AFL Footballers. There was a feeling in some quarters when he got dragged through the courts following the Bruns episode that, whilst it was regrettable that the legal system had become involved in an on-field incident, Matthews was getting his just desserts after a career peppered with acts of thuggery.

Having said that, it was a different game back then.

[harmesy 37]

James Hird is on this list? - how does that work.


It is all individual perspective if you ask me.


If Chris Judd keeps going the way he has going - it is goodnight mary to your Leigh Matthews's and Gary Ablett's. He is the best player I have seen by a country mile in the last 20 years.


With my Carlton hat on - I would want these players included in the list of the greatest ever players-


Wayne Harmes, Bruce Doull, Alex Jesaulenko, Wayne Johnston and John Nicholls.


Also, Wayne Carey never really did it for me. I was never blown away by him the way I marvelled at other centre half-forwards like Royce Hart and Kernahan, but again that is MY perception and probably not yours.

[Ron The Bear]

With my Carlton hat on - I would want these players included in the list of the greatest ever players-

Wayne Harmes, Bruce Doull, Alex Jesaulenko, Wayne Johnston and John Nicholls.

Never saw Nicholls, or Jezza in his prime. Harmes and Johnston were top players of their era, but not all-time greats. Doull on the other hand - superb, probably the best defender I've seen.

[Sainters08]

You know exactly why he did it. Same reason sainters08 suggested he could be replaced with Harvery. ;)

Agree wouldn't class Hird with the likes of those 3. Ablett for me, maybe just because of the fact he made me become interested in football.
Off topic but I remember Hird as a tacker playing on Ablett one day.


Harvey >>>>>>>> Hird :)

[Ron The Bear]

Hayden Bunton Senior clearly by any standard is the greatest of all time ...unless you are limiting it to players you have actually seen.

Records don't lie -

3 Brownlows and 3 Sandovers ...no one else is even close.

Had to sit out his first season in the VFL at age 19
Won 2 Brownlows in his first 2 seasons (1931 & 1932)
Capt of Fitzroy at age 21 (1932)
R/up Brownlow in 1934
Brownlow medalist in 1935
Captain/Coach of Fitzroy in 1936 at 25
Leading goal scorer for Fitzroy 1936 & 1937
Went to WA (as there was more money available) and was made Captain Coach of Subiaco in 1938
Won the Sandover medal in 1938, 1939 and 1941 (72 games and he was nearly best on ground in all of them!)
His career was then effectively ended by WWII when he was 30. He did play for Port Adelaide in 1945 suggesting he may well have had a few games left in him

3 Brownlows and 3 Sandovers in 11 seasons..in a career that started late, ended early and with the added pressure of having to grab the captaincy and even coaching reigns early....plus go forward to help an ailing Roys in the 36/37 seasons. Before you say that is old news it was easier back then - why did no one else even come close to doing it?

Did I see him no so it is very hard ....but my Grandad who was a keen follower said he was better than anyone else he had ever seen play by a long way. Saw him get the absolute crud belted out of him and was laid out against Souths one game and still got a lazy 30+ and killed us said my Pop.

Bunton's record is incredible on paper, but with regard to umpires' awards it should be mentioned that he always took care to be on the best of terms with the men in white. He was well known for being impeccably groomed, and kept his boots polished to a mirror shine. He was even rumoured to iron his shoelaces!

As you suggest, Bunton often came in for physical punishment during a very tough era.

I'm always amazed by the record of Carji Greeves, the first Brownlow winner. At his peak 1924-28, he received 29 Brownlow votes (only one vote was given per match, for BOG) in 79 games. By comparison, Chris Judd has received 3 Brownlow votes 18 times in 102 games between 2003 (when he played his first 3-vote match) and 2007.

It's virtually impossible to line up players of that vintage against modern greats.

[frankc]

This comparison sometimes generally are biased towards ones own players, however for mine Leigh Matthews is unquestionably the greatest all round player of the modern age. However he only marginally shades Ablett.

While Carey is no doubt the greatest CHF of the modern era, he cannot match Ablett or Matthews for all around ability.

Matthews figures are almost unreal. over 900 goals from 330 odd games, two-time MVP, 4-time premiership player etc etc etc. One must also remember he only played as a permanent forward in the very twilight of his career.

However I think even Matthews is surpassed by John Coleman who averaged nearly 5.5 goals a game in an era when the game was extremly defensive.

[likka]

Matthews from Ablett... Carey a distant third.

Hird should not be on this list.

[GreaT SourcE]

Matthews from Ablett... Carey a distant third.

Hird should not be on this list.

Yes he should, he probably isn't as good as them but he has won just about every award you can think of, and tends to lift the black & red army. Here are some of his honours :-

All-Australian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian) 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2003
Essendon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club) Best and Fairest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_and_Fairest) 1994, 1995, 1996, 2003, 2007
Brownlow Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownlow_Medal) winner 1996
Norm Smith Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Smith_Medal) winner 2000
International Rules Series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Rules_Series) 2000 (captain), 2004
Jim Stynes Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Stynes_Medal) 2000
Essendon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club) captain 1998-2005
Essendon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club) premiership side 1993, 2000 (Captain)Here has been one of the best players in this era, but there are higher profiled players such as Matthews & Ablett who were around much earlier. I'm guessing you're thinking, ' If James Hird's on the list, why isn't Bucks ?'
It's a big call, but James Hird has been better than Buckley & Voss. ;)

[Sainters08]

Yes he should, he probably isn't as good as them but he has won just about every award you can think of, and tends to lift the black & red army. Here are some of his honours :-
All-Australian (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian) 1995, 1996, 2000, 2001, 2003
Essendon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club) Best and Fairest (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Best_and_Fairest) 1994, 1995, 1996, 2003, 2007
Brownlow Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownlow_Medal) winner 1996
Norm Smith Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norm_Smith_Medal) winner 2000
International Rules Series (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Rules_Series) 2000 (captain), 2004
Jim Stynes Medal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jim_Stynes_Medal) 2000
Essendon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club) captain 1998-2005
Essendon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essendon_Football_Club) premiership side 1993, 2000 (Captain)Here has been one of the best players in this era, but there are higher profiled players such as Matthews & Ablett who were around much earlier. I'm guessing you're thinking, ' If James Hird's on the list, why isn't Bucks ?'
It's a big call, but James Hird has been better than Buckley & Voss. ;)

Hird shouldnt be on that list...Harvey deserves to be in front of Hird.

- 358 Games (only 9 other players have done so)
- 208 Goals
- Brownlow Medal winner: 1997, 1998
- 2nd most Brownlow votes in AFL/VFL History
- Only player to ever have received Brownlow votes in more than 100 games
- Only VFL/AFL player to ever play in 21 consecutive seasons.
- Leigh Matthews Trophy: 1997
- St Kilda Best and Fairest: 1992, 1994, 1997, 1998
- All-Australian: 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2003
- Michael Tuck Medal winner: 2004
- E. J. Whitten Medal winner: 1992, 1993, 1996


HARVEY >>>>> HIRD
:D

[Theo Funk]

So, all you experts - does the greatest player necessarily have to also be the best?

Surely someone should be called 'great' because of factors over and above mere footballing skills.

For instance I think James Hird was a great player because he appeared to be more than just an excellent player of the game. From all reports he was an exemplary leader who kept himself 'clean' on and off the field; someone both children and adults could admire.

Gary Ablett was the best player I ever saw but he was never great!
And who knows how good (or great) John Coleman was, or Don Cordner or for that matter Tom Wills.
Australian Football's 150 years old, not just 20 or 25 and I'm sure my granddad saw some great players in his day!

[tw34k]

If he was before your time then you should just say that and move along ...now you have just made your self look like the typical BF nuffy ..who will just nominate their team player due to bias.

I have seen all 3 play ..and let me tell you ..Mathews was better than Carey ..and Carey was better than Ablett .

Spoken like a true nuffy.

[Scarlett Letter]

Hird shouldnt be on that list...Harvey deserves to be in front of Hird.

- 358 Games (only 9 other players have done so)
- 208 Goals
- Brownlow Medal winner: 1997, 1998
- 2nd most Brownlow votes in AFL/VFL History
- Only player to ever have received Brownlow votes in more than 100 games
- Only VFL/AFL player to ever play in 21 consecutive seasons.
- Leigh Matthews Trophy: 1997
- St Kilda Best and Fairest: 1992, 1994, 1997, 1998
- All-Australian: 1992, 1994, 1995, 1996, 1997, 1998, 1999, 2003
- Michael Tuck Medal winner: 2004
- E. J. Whitten Medal winner: 1992, 1993, 1996


HARVEY >>>>> HIRD
:D

I don't think either should be on the list, but what your'e saying is exactly right, if it was based on individual awards alone, there are many, many, many, many ahead of Hird, including Robert Harvey. :thumbsu:

Neither would be in my Top 10, and lucky to sneak into the Top 20 of all time, and the fact the Essendon supporter who concocted this thread with Hird's name even next to Ablett, Matthews and Carey is sickening.

How could you forget: Bunton, Dyer, Whitten, Reynolds, Skilton etc, etc:confused:

[DarwinRoo]

Gary Ablett was the best player To have played the Game, who gives a shit about the players around them!!!!! it's not his fault they were crap.

Watch the State games Ablett played in, the 89' grand final (nearly won the game off his own boot.)
This Carey thing being better than Ablett makes me laugh....

Ablett played off a wing and still kicked 60 odd goals in a season.

In his last 81 matches he kicked 444 goals at an average of 5.5 goals a game. His last season kicked 69 in just 17 games!!! how was Carey's last season!!! OH thats right he did sweet nothing......

He was pure brilliance and Power, best mark I have ever seen, and best kick I have ever seen. No one ever beat him.

I cant comment to much on Matthew's cause I didn't see him play much but for some to be better than Ablett than they must have been F#$%ing good, and nothing that I can see from Matthew's strikes me that he was better, on par but not better.

9 Goals in a grand final is a great effort but how did he go in the 1995 GF?

How about Wayne Carey's 1994 Final series. Played on one leg and was BOG in both finals. How about his 1997 Finals game against the Cats? 7 goals. Only 2 less than Geelong.

Geelong got to 4 GF's in Abletts time so i doubt that the players around him were crap. Maybe because they didnt have a good enough leadership from the likes of Ablett, Bairstow and Bews was the reason they didnt win.

Wayne Carey is a better player than Ablett. The best mark the game has seen. He has skills most of todays modern midfielders would die for and all this while standing at 192 cm's.

How many goals would Ablett have kicked if he had 3 defenders on him whenever he went for the ball?

Ablett played in an era when it was man on man. Even Brad Johnson could kick 100 goals if he was left one out in the forward line enough times.

[Kochie 16]

I don't think either should be on the list, but what your'e saying is exactly right, if it was based on individual awards alone, there are many, many, many, many ahead of Hird, including Robert Harvey. :thumbsu:

Neither would be in my Top 10, and lucky to sneak into the Top 20 of all time, and the fact the Essendon supporter who concocted this thread with Hird's name even next to Ablett, Matthews and Carey is sickening.

How could you forget: Bunton, Dyer, Whitten, Reynolds, Skilton etc, etc:confused:
Amem to that!

[nut]

9 Goals in a grand final is a great effort but how did he go in the 1995 GF?

How about Wayne Carey's 1994 Final series. Played on one leg and was BOG in both finals. How about his 1997 Finals game against the Cats? 7 goals. Only 2 less than Geelong.

Geelong got to 4 GF's in Abletts time so i doubt that the players around him were crap. Maybe because they didnt have a good enough leadership from the likes of Ablett, Bairstow and Bews was the reason they didnt win.

Wayne Carey is a better player than Ablett. The best mark the game has seen. He has skills most of todays modern midfielders would die for and all this while standing at 192 cm's.

How many goals would Ablett have kicked if he had 3 defenders on him whenever he went for the ball?

Ablett played in an era when it was man on man. Even Brad Johnson could kick 100 goals if he was left one out in the forward line enough times.

Ablett is regarded as the best PACK mack the game has seen.


A noted big game player, Ablett kicked 43 goals in 11 State appearances - an average of nearly 4 goals a game. Perhaps more significantly, he booted 63 goals over the course of his 15 finals - an average of over 4 goals a game.[1]
His haul of 27 goals in the 1989 finals series is a record that still stands; he kicked 3 goals vs. Essendon, 7 vs. Melbourne, 8 vs. Essendon in Geelong's winning rematch, and 9 in the losing Grand Final against Hawthorn. His performance in the 1989 Grand Final, where he was rewarded the Norm Smith Medal for best player afield, is considered one of the greatest individual performances in the history of the game. In winning the medal, he became one of only four players (the others being Maurice Rioli, Nathan Buckley, and Chris Judd) to win the medal playing for the losing side. In 1993, Ablett became the 2nd fastest player to kick 100 goals, doing so in 14 games, with only the legendary Bob Pratt bettering it in 13 games. In 1996, Ablett joined Gordon Coventry, Doug Wade, Jason Dunstall and Tony Lockett as the only players in league history to kick 1000 VFL/AFL goals.

[whelan=legend]

If it is greatest player in HISTORY then it is the one and only Ron Barassi

[Scarlett Letter]

If it is greatest player in HISTORY then it is the one and only Ron Barassi

Just no...

[nut]

I'M going to be blunt.

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES CAREY WAS BETTER THAN ABLETT DOES NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT FOOTBALL.


ABLETT'S BEST WAS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER WHO HAS PLAYED THE GAME.

Even Richo's stats don't look that bad against Carey, Richo out marks him.

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=&PlayerName1=Matthew+Richardson&PlayerName2=Wayne+Carey&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&Compare=Add+to+Comparison&SelectedPlayers=


Carey was great, but he is not the Best.

[nut]

Also just a quick one on Matthews, Small forwards in his era had it a lot easier than now. KB kicked 770 goals.

[loopy_cam]

lol Jimmy Hird is no where near as good as any of the others listed.

try Robert Harvey! :thumbsu:

Harvey is nowhere near Hirdy

[DarwinRoo]

I'M going to be blunt.

ANYONE WHO BELIEVES CAREY WAS BETTER THAN ABLETT DOES NOT KNOW A THING ABOUT FOOTBALL.


ABLETT'S BEST WAS BETTER THAN ANY OTHER PLAYER WHO HAS PLAYED THE GAME.

Even Richo's stats don't look that bad against Carey, Richo out marks him.

http://finalsiren.com/PlayerCompare.asp?SeasonID=&PlayerName1=Matthew+Richardson&PlayerName2=Wayne+Carey&PlayerName3=&PlayerName4=&Compare=Add+to+Comparison&SelectedPlayers=


Carey was great, but he is not the Best.

Only a Richmond supporter would even dare compare Richo to Carey.

Ill be blunt aswell. Carey is a greater player than Gary Ablett.

[Sainters08]

Harvey is nowhere near Hirdy

BAHA

[ssfc0203]

Bobby Skilton? Dick Reynolds?

This is all time, isn't it..

From the list I'd say Leigh Matthews.

[nut]

Only a Richmond supporter would even dare compare Richo to Carey.

Ill be blunt aswell. Carey is a greater player than Gary Ablett.

Based on what?????? Dont give me that crap about leadership or premiership.


Well it's good you can only vote once.

[Deenamite]

I knew it would be an Essondon supporter that started the thread. Quite simply, most will just vote for the player that played for their club, but i'd also like to see players like Reynolds, Skilton, Barrassi, Whitten included.

[Bloods]

All time?

There was footy played before 1970.

Not enough names there. In my time though, Lockett should be mentioned with those names.