New Zealand

[flukeyluke]

Has the AFL looked at ever having a team in NZ?
The Basketball and Rugby leagues have (had) teams in NZ and perhaps they might take to Aussie Rules too?

Maybe even 4 games a year like what the Hawks are doing in Tassie could be worthwhile.

Thoughts?

[fishmonger]

Once a year is probably enough at this stage.

The game is growing at the grassroots, but the 3 AFL matches that have been played in NZ to date have averaged about the same crowds as Carrara on the Gold Coast.

With 4 million in population, the market is almost the size of Sydney, just spread over a much wider area.

[Bollox]

thats sux points eh bro

[flukeyluke]

Lol @ Bollox.

Language could be one barrier:D

[dom_105]

thats sux points eh bro

:D Gold

[Sherrinator]

It's true, New Zealand is shit.

[RUNVS]

The reason why Aussie Rules will never succeed in New Zealand is because of its name. New Zealanders like to seperate themselves from Australia as the rest of the world tend to think of them as the small country next to Australia. They will never accept a game which is called Australian Rules Football.

[estibador]

Screw NZ. It's the Australian Football League not the ANZACFL. If they want to play footy they can start their own league.

It's bad enough that Freo have to make long haul road trips to Brissy or Tassie. The last thing we need is to have to make an 8 hour plane flight to NZ in the middle of a grueling footy season.

[huggy_b]

2 words rugby union - they reckon aussie rules is for "pussies"

[Peacock]

Auckland Kangaroos?

Wellington Kangaroos?

:thumbsu:

[retroparty]

Auckland Kangaroos?

Wellington Kangaroos?

:thumbsu:

Wellington Sheep Shearers. Gotta have a nickname which comes from your own country

[caddyhawk]

Will we get to see the Hakka before every match?:D

[A Living God]

There are 5,000 junior AR footy players in New Zealand. In time if that grew to 20,000 then you could start to consider New Zealand for an AFL team. You would probably want to get a semi-pro NZARFL going first and possibly a team(s) in the VFL (Auckland, Wellington or Chirstchurch)

[Howard Littlejohn]

In time, NZ and PNG (my favourite international hobby horse, it was apparently the #1 game there until Packer beamed in 20 straight years of RL on the only TV channel) could be brought in to the national under-age championships.
PNG have shown themselves to have some raw talent in the international cup, with better coaching they would have won the first one. If they can be identified at a young age, they could provide at least state league players and probably the odd AFL player. I doubt there's the money for an AFL team though.
NZ might have the money, but even in RL (their second sport, a long long way behind union) they struggle.

[ChrisFooty]

Even in 100 years time still no chance. Australian rules football will be strictly an Australian sport only. The big challenge is can the AFL expand in NSW and QLD properly? That should be the major focus, as all other international promotion is a waste of time and resources.

[Rich]

The reason why Aussie Rules will never succeed in New Zealand is because of its name. New Zealanders like to seperate themselves from Australia as the rest of the world tend to think of them as the small country next to Australia. They will never accept a game which is called Australian Rules Football.

Unfortunately, this is just about spot on.

The Australian Rules bit gets their goat. I have spent many hours trying to educate Kiwi's on the rules and nuances of our game with mixed results.

I could be wrong, but I think footy was introduced to NZ pre-WWI, and became very popular and nearly became the game of choice (no pun intended) to teach in schools, until a late change of heart and they went with rugby.

[SweetLeftFoot]

can **** right off.

[Inferno]

You will see teams from South Africa before one from New Zealand.

[fishmonger]

Seriously there is no reason why it couldn't work.

But it would take the sort of investment from the AFL that is being made in Western Sydney and the Gold Coast, and that is just not happening, nor will it likely in future.

However the AFL is investing a little in the NZ market, and it is paying healthy dividends. There are already a handful of NZ national team players trianing at semi-professional WAFL and AFL Queensland level.

Trying to get people to watch AFL would be a harder struggle (due to rugby competition) than going at the grassroots. And that is the approach they are taking.

[McCrann]

Unfortunately, this is just about spot on.

The Australian Rules bit gets their goat. I have spent many hours trying to educate Kiwi's on the rules and nuances of our game with mixed results.

I could be wrong, but I think footy was introduced to NZ pre-WWI, and became very popular and nearly became the game of choice (no pun intended) to teach in schools, until a late change of heart and they went with rugby.

To market it to the world - the answer is simple - Call it New Football.

Makes it sound as though it is an evolution on the old form - a step forward you might say.

[bzparkes]

To market it to the world - the answer is simple - Call it New Football.

Makes it sound as though it is an evolution on the old form - a step forward you might say.


Still flogging that dead horse I see?

[bradrowe#32]

Screw NZ. It's the Australian Football League not the ANZACFL. If they want to play footy they can start their own league.

It's bad enough that Freo have to make long haul road trips to Brissy or Tassie. The last thing we need is to have to make an 8 hour plane flight to NZ in the middle of a grueling footy season.

The Australian and New Zealand Army Corps Football League?

[Subprime]

NZ would be a tougher nut to crack than Sydney.

Think of entrenched Rugbyites rah-rah-ing atop the barricades to stop the foreign invaders and I think you'll get the picture.

The types that refuse to allow the Australian game to be played in the private schools of Australia's largest city (even when their students petitioned for it).

Happy for the AFL to support the code in NZ in any way it can but putting a team into that environment at this stage is premature.

[bzparkes]

Screw NZ. It's the Australian Football League not the ANZACFL. If they want to play footy they can start their own league.

It's bad enough that Freo have to make long haul road trips to Brissy or Tassie. The last thing we need is to have to make an 8 hour plane flight to NZ in the middle of a grueling footy season.


As opposed to WCE making the same trip, or Brisbane travelling to Perth??

[estibador]

The Australian and New Zealand Army Corps Football League?

I know it doesn't make sense. But you get my drift.

As opposed to WCE making the same trip, or Brisbane travelling to Perth??

Yes the eagles too. But I don't care about them.

Brissy's trip over here (and vice versa) is fair enough. It's gotta be done. But Perth to NZ in the middle of a taxing season would be a horror road trip.

We already have a tough enough travel schedule. Do you really want the eagles travelling to NZ every season too? Because you know in their infinite wisdom the AFL would schedule both WA teams to play there every year.

[MAG87]

Screw NZ. It's the Australian Football League not the ANZACFL. If they want to play footy they can start their own league.

It's bad enough that Freo have to make long haul road trips to Brissy or Tassie. The last thing we need is to have to make an 8 hour plane flight to NZ in the middle of a grueling footy season.

thank you. finally some common sense. why cant nz make their own leagues with their sport. always relying on australia for everything. NZ wont wanna be part of an Australian sport as well as the majority of the footy clubs would say no. it would be 2 generations minimum before we'd see a team in NZ. we dont want to become like the NBL. i think the NBL is burying itself slowly with a team in Singapore AND NZ.

[adamania11]

No NZ team in the AFL. Please.

[supox]

No NZ team in the AFL. Please.

You're safe - it'll never happen.

[TigerCraig]

They used to play in the National Championships

[Mickdog]

In time, NZ and PNG (my favourite international hobby horse, it was apparently the #1 game there until Packer beamed in 20 straight years of RL on the only TV channel) could be brought in to the national under-age championships.
PNG have shown themselves to have some raw talent in the international cup, with better coaching they would have won the first one. If they can be identified at a young age, they could provide at least state league players and probably the odd AFL player. I doubt there's the money for an AFL team though.
NZ might have the money, but even in RL (their second sport, a long long way behind union) they struggle.

What a load of horse shit. The scary thing is I think you actually believe the rubbish you write.

The national sport of PNG is Rugby League and was brought there when the soldiers played it with the people in the second world war.

Do some research before talking shit next time please:rolleyes:

[Mickdog]

Even in 100 years time still no chance. Australian rules football will be strictly an Australian sport only. The big challenge is can the AFL expand in NSW and QLD properly? That should be the major focus, as all other international promotion is a waste of time and resources.

I agree. NSW and QLD are and must be the main focus. Eventually 3 teams in Sydney, Nth QLD, Canberra etc should all have teams. Obviously not for some time but eventually it is a must

[ChrisFooty]

I agree. NSW and QLD are and must be the main focus. Eventually 3 teams in Sydney, Nth QLD, Canberra etc should all have teams. Obviously not for some time but eventually it is a must

I don't think the AFL will have more than 18 teams in our lifetime. Even if more teams were added (besides Gold Coast and Western Sydney) a couple of victorian teams will bite the dust. I don't think in 60-70 years time all ten victorian clubs will still be alive in the current form (sad, i know) Even more so, if Andrew current regime stays in charge for the short-med term. Who will sack him? Nobody, because the AFL is recording massive money in crowds, tv rights, sponsorship, ect.

Nth QLD, third sydney team and Canberra will not appear in our lifetime. Tasmania and a third Perth team are the two most likely options after Gold Coast and Western Sydney.

People are having a wet dream if they are thinking international teams will come into AFL in the next 100-500 years.

[fishmonger]

What a load of horse shit. The scary thing is I think you actually believe the rubbish you write.

The national sport of PNG is Rugby League and was brought there when the soldiers played it with the people in the second world war.

Do some research before talking shit next time please:rolleyes:

Mate, you should do some research too.

Australian rules football was actually introduced by solidiers at about the same time as rugby league.

Australian rules proved to be just as popular if not moreso and the country was producing players for state leagues including the VFL.

It wasn't until the 1980s that TV rights slipped Australian Rules back, but it continues to be popular.

Triple premiership player Mal Michael has helped the sport make something of a return.

There are several players already playing at state league level, a huge number of talented juniors and two Papuans were invited to the AIS/AFL draft camp.

PNG again compete in the Queensland State Championships and the sport is still booming there.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_rules_football_in_papua_new_guinea

I'm tipping the Mozzies to win the AFL International Cup in 2008 for the first time.

[Howard Littlejohn]

What a load of horse shit. The scary thing is I think you actually believe the rubbish you write.

The national sport of PNG is Rugby League and was brought there when the soldiers played it with the people in the second world war.

Do some research before talking shit next time please:rolleyes:

I'll trust the word of people who have lived in PNG.

Yes, RL is the biggest sport there now and by a long way - but that's largely through that being the sport that got put on TV. Prior to that, with AF and RL both introduced at roughly the same time AF was the bigger sport - or so I was told by people who know the country.

[1908]

That's right all those people in the highlands who were once playing AFL now follow league because of TV from Packer. They drive Holden's up there too and live in 4 bedroom houses.

[1908]

Australian rules proved to be just as popular if not moreso and the country was producing players for state leagues including the VFL.


Name 10 players who learnt the game in PNG who played VFL? I'll give you a month to answer this one.

[fishmonger]

Name 10 players who learnt the game in PNG who played VFL? I'll give you a month to answer this one.

Is it relevant ?

The sport was semi-pro at best before the 1980s when what is now the AFL was first being formed. Anyway do you really think a poor villager from PNG is going to pack his bags, leave his whole family life and move to Melbourne without some serious financial commitment and support ? It just really wouldn't have been possible.

A few did try out. And there were touring sides to PNG. Back then the other state competitions were pretty much on even keel. There were quite a few guys who played at QAFL level and NTFL level. It would have been much closer. When I was a teenager I played with some PNG guys in Brisbane, and some of them who had moved to Cairns played at Teal Cup level.

Let me put it to you this way. Can you name 10 who learned rugby league and played in the NSWRL before 1980 ?

[Holding The Ball]

Back tracking pretty damn quickly there fishy.

[Chasing the Dream]

Will we get to see the Hakka before every match?:D

The Kiwis had a team in the Australian Country Championships recently when played here on the Gold Coast, and yes the Hakka came out before games.

They got smashed in every game.

[Chasing the Dream]

Is it relevant ?

The sport was semi-pro at best before the 1980s when what is now the AFL was first being formed. Anyway do you really think a poor villager from PNG is going to pack his bags, leave his whole family life and move to Melbourne without some serious financial commitment and support ? It just really wouldn't have been possible.

A few did try out. And there were touring sides to PNG. Back then the other state competitions were pretty much on even keel. There were quite a few guys who played at QAFL level and NTFL level. It would have been much closer. When I was a teenager I played with some PNG guys in Brisbane, and some of them who had moved to Cairns played at Teal Cup level.

Let me put it to you this way. Can you name 10 who learned rugby league and played in the NSWRL before 1980 ?

Coolangatta footy club seem to have about 10 or so players from PNG each year at the club.

Most play seconds, but a few play in the seniors and do OK.

Not at your AFL level, but there must be an interest in the code in PNG, obviosly not as big as RL these days I would guess however.

[demonsboy888]

Yeah seems AFL is making a comeback in PNG but RL is still #1. But with that many players in the QAFL and more each year then its a matter of time before they get players into the AFL and that would raise the profile of the sport heaps in PNG. But back to the original idea, no I can't see PNG in the AFL in the next 50 years because it's a poor country so thats why NZ would be a better chance.

[MightyHawks]

The AFL has a large budget for player development within Australia.
If they put $1million a year into both NZ and PNG for the next 5 years it'd be interesting to see what could be achieved.

It might sound like a lot of money, but it's hardly anything in terms of the AFLs budget.

[ChrisFooty]

The AFL has a large budget for player development within Australia.
If they put $1million a year into both NZ and PNG for the next 5 years it'd be interesting to see what could be achieved.

It might sound like a lot of money, but it's hardly anything in terms of the AFLs budget.

You might as well flush that money down the toilet. The AFL will never crack any international market. The Australian game will be seen as a forieger. The AFL should just worry about expanding in NSW and QLD.

[Mr Crow!]

thats sux points eh bro

Choice!

[HitEmHardFreo]

You might as well flush that money down the toilet. The AFL will never crack any international market. The Australian game will be seen as a forieger. The AFL should just worry about expanding in NSW and QLD.

The above clown is from the Littleduck school of thought: Keep football out and away from NSW and Queensland. And now PNG and NZ. Dipsh1ts!

[dr strange]

PNG has been a rl test playing nation since the early 80's,with the esl expanding in 2009 some of their 2008 rlwc squad have a great opportunity to get a European contract.

[MightyHawks]

You might as well flush that money down the toilet. The AFL will never crack any international market. The Australian game will be seen as a forieger. The AFL should just worry about expanding in NSW and QLD.

have the efforts put into ireland over the last 30-40 years been worth it?

while there have only been a handful of worthwhile players so far, the trend is good.

possible benefits of developing the game in NZ...

getting more people to actually play the game at any level
keeping expat australians interested in the game.
getting AFL matches covered on NZ pay TV
getting the pay TV network to pay something worthwhile for them
possible draftees. Not everyone's body type is suited to playing rugby codes.
expanding the competition possible team in NZ

[AlexTG]

If Sydney can support a Victorian team playing a 'Victorian' game then I don't see why the Kiwis couldn't support an Australian game.

[Holding The Ball]

If Sydney can support a Victorian team playing a 'Victorian' game then I don't see why the Kiwis couldn't support an Australian game.
Because it's not a New Zealand game perhaps?

[McCrann]

Because it's not a New Zealand game perhaps?

What, like that famous New Zealand game known the world over as Rugby? Pretty sure that's a Northern Hemisphere product mate - never stopped the Kiwis.

[Holding The Ball]

What, like that famous New Zealand game known the world over as Rugby? Pretty sure that's a Northern Hemisphere product mate - never stopped the Kiwis.
So you morons really believe that New Zealand will even take a cursory glance at a sport called Australian Rules, when it hasn't even secured north of the Murray yet?

Maybe that's the next stop for the Kangaroos. Already failed in Melbourne, Canberra, Western Sydney, and the Gold Coast.

[Valleys FC 4Ever]

So you morons really believe that New Zealand will even take a cursory glance at a sport called Australian Rules, when it hasn't even secured north of the Murray yet?

Maybe that's the next stop for the Kangaroos. Already failed in Melbourne, Canberra, Western Sydney, and the Gold Coast.The New Zealand Kangaroos. I'm sure that'd go down a treat. ;)

[Fire]

Maybe that's the next stop for the Kangaroos. Already failed in Melbourne...

140 years in Melbourne says otherwise.

[erical]

Too many other activites happening in Enzed Bro
http://www.adultsheepfinder.com./:rolleyes:

[flukeyluke]

So you morons really believe that New Zealand will even take a cursory glance at a sport called Australian Rules, when it hasn't even secured north of the Murray yet?

Maybe that's the next stop for the Kangaroos. Already failed in Melbourne, Canberra, Western Sydney, and the Gold Coast.

The problem in OZ seems to be limited sponsorship to go around so many clubs.
The idea of a club in NZ seems logical if the locals would adopt the sport.
Its close enough for weekly commutes and is large enough to fund a team I would have thought.

Just throwing it out there

[Howard Littlejohn]

NZ has struggled to keep an NRL side afloat. The second sport, after union, and a league that requires less income for a club than is the case in the AFL. Their first A-League team has fallen over, the second one seems to have started OK but has to be considered shaky.

I can't see it happening for a long time yet. Get some decent TV coverage, and put more into local leagues - then consider NZ joining the AFL if a following develops.
Maybe play some pre-season games there as well, although grounds are hard to come by; probably only the Basin Reserve (Wellington) has a big enough playing surface for AFL standard football and it wouldn't be available in February due to cricket commitments.

[Geoff Dickson]

Gentleman,

As a director of the NZAFL for the last 2 years and the recently elected chair of the NZAFL, please allow me to add a few comments.

1. An AFL franchise in NZ is not on the radar of the NZAFL and I am certain it is not on the radar of the AFL either. Our participation numbers are best described as low or modest. We struggle to access fields of the appropriate size/dimensions and there is no stadium with a playing surface suitable for elite AFL.

2. Historically - before my time - there have been some exhibition matches played in NZ....some more successful than others. We may consider these in the future but they are high risk (i.e. we take all of the financial risk) and they have a limited impact, both in terms of time (i.e one week of media coverage) and geography (i.e. one city) such that an exhibition game may be overrated in terms of its ability to develop the game.

3. Our game development work starts at high school age. We don't have the resources to do the traditional Auskick program.

4. In recent years, NZ teams have participated in the Australian Country Football Champs and the Barassi Cup. We are not winning anything but we are competing (e.g. narrow loss, albeit in wet conditions, to Victoria B by 9 points which has 80 leagues/approx 800 clubs to recruit from compared to our 16 clubs). Getting NZ teams to play in these non-elite competitions is very important.

5. Whilst an AFL team is not on the radar, i think it is forseeable that a young New Zealander who got their start in the game here in NZ, will play AFL football. As already mentioned by others in this thread, Kiwis are traveling to Australia to further their footy careers. One day, one of those 'physiological freaks' will collide with the game here and we hope to put them on a pathway towards an AFL club (most likely via AIS draft camp and a few years at a feeder club).

6. Another exciting development is that we are receiving more expressions of interest from Australian clubs wishing to conduct a NZ tour. This is great for us as our athletes are not forced to pay their own way to Australia in order to be exposed to a higher level of the game. This is happening at both under 16 and open age levels. Maffra footy club have toured NZ and hosted the NZ team in Maffra. If your club would like to visit NZ then drop us a line.

7. The Saturday afternoon AFL game is broadcast on Pay TV here...the broadcast expenses are effectively underwritten buy a few Australian owned companies. This is key to our exposure and interestingly enough, key to driving revenue from the NZ TAB...we get a cut of betting turnover on AFL games and it is noticeably higher when a match is broadcast

8. All in all, our emphasis is simply on getting people to play the game here.

If you want to know more, check out www.nzafl.co.nz

[Howard Littlejohn]

Thanks, Geoff.
Point 6 looks like a great move from the clubs invovled, both Australian and Kiwi.

[Shinboner Schem]

Geoff,

thanks for that detailed summary.

Let me ask you, is the 9-a-side game something that has been looked at or is it currently being played?
I believe this variation of the game will be a key to its growth in countries with many soccer and rugby grounds/stadiums as opposed to cricket grounds.

[Holding The Ball]

140 years in Melbourne says otherwise.
Come on mate, I'm a North supporter.
I was being facetious in response to all these claims that we need to move to survive.

[bradrowe#32]

Great work Geoff. Thanks for giving us the state of play.

AFL in NZ is never really going to take off unless the league throws a heap of cash at it. I reckon they should trial an AusKick type program for school kids, just to introduce them into the game. I imagine the costs wouldn't be that significant once they get sponsorship.

[supox]

Great work Geoff. Thanks for giving us the state of play.

AFL in NZ is never really going to take off unless the league throws a heap of cash at it. I reckon they should trial an AusKick type program for school kids, just to introduce them into the game. I imagine the costs wouldn't be that significant once they get sponsorship.

???

You can claim anything will have low costs once someone (else) is willing to pick up the bill. For example;

It's not going to cost the NFL much to establish a fully professional gridiron league in Australia with a massive advertising blitz to blow AFL/NRL out of the water. All they need to do is get someone to provide sponsorship.

See?