View Full Version : Kruezer v Luenberger
wizard_9
16 Dec 2007, 21:00
Simple really, which one in your opinion will be a better AFL player?
smiddaz123
16 Dec 2007, 21:04
Luenberger. Only Carlton supporters will say Lruezer.
The Berger is the best young ruckman in the league by a long way.
Lynch takes a mark
16 Dec 2007, 22:11
For Berger to show the most from the top 4 as a 204cm 18 year old ruck is seriously impressive.
delirious1
16 Dec 2007, 22:48
Leuenberger is superior to Kruezer in every way
Kruezer is pretty damn talented, but Leuenberger shits all over him
Have any of you supposed 'experts' seen Kruezer play?
Or are you just basing your opinion on hearsay combined with a deep hatred for Carlton?
Have any of you supposed 'experts' seen Kruezer play?
Seen him twice this year and he is good but he didnt excite me that much. Cotchin played in both thoes games and was the stand out.
Luenberger is a dead set gun, Kruezer will be very good but not great.
Tanked for nothing ;)
THe berger by the length of flemington straight
BABYBOMBERS2007
17 Dec 2007, 18:55
Luenberger is a billion times better. Only Carlton supporters will say Kruezer. Kruezer will end up being an average ruckman while Luenberger will end up being a really good ruckman; he could be like Cox/Lade etc.
Carson_Kressley
17 Dec 2007, 18:55
the only berger i kno is from hungry jacks who is this berger he is just a pickle compared to kruezer. berger is outa his league if he is to be compared to a number 1 draft pick. at what number did berger n fries get drafted at ????
smiddaz123
17 Dec 2007, 19:34
the only berger i kno is from hungry jacks who is this berger he is just a pickle compared to kruezer. berger is outa his league if he is to be compared to a number 1 draft pick. at what number did berger n fries get drafted at ????
Make no mistake, luenberger would've gone number 1 in 2007.
And kruezer would've gone from 7-12 in the 2006 at a guess.
TheGeneral
17 Dec 2007, 21:07
How you can judge until Kreuzer has played a game? :rolleyes:
You might as well as compare Gibbs to Cotchin and Myers and Selwood to Masten just to win a pointless pissing contest on BF.
For Berger to show the most from the top 4 as a 204cm 18 year old ruck is seriously impressive.
Leuenberger is 19 years old.
Leuenberger is superior to Kruezer in every way
Kruezer is pretty damn talented, but Leuenberger shits all over him
Kreuzer shits all over Leuenberger with his endurance and ability to win the ball on the deck.
Kreuzer and Hampson will be one of the best ruck pairings in the AFL with their speed, agility, ruck work and running ability for big men.
Who needs Leuenberger when they'll be tapping it to Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Stevens, etc for at least the next five years?
Monkeyboy
17 Dec 2007, 21:14
How is the anger at Carlton. The fear is absolutely amazing. When Kreuzer is being called Leuzer and dud before he has even played a game, this fear of the Blues young list is really starting to become quite sad amongst the paranoid at BF.
Both will be guns. I guess if we go by what we saw when they played against each other as kids, you would say Kreuzer, as he gave Leuy a bath. Both will be guns, but most independant and wise judges believe Kreuzer will be one out of the box.
Exciting times for both clubs. And even more so for Carlton as they have Hammer Hampson as the tandem ruckman with the Kruezer in years to come.
delirious1
17 Dec 2007, 23:01
How you can judge until Kreuzer has played a game? :rolleyes:
TAC Cup and Colts are a good indication. I do watch these things, unlike you who probably read a very biast perspective about the,.
Kreuzer shits all over Leuenberger with his endurance and ability to win the ball on the deck.
Uh...Try again
Who needs Leuenberger when they'll be tapping it to Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Stevens, etc for at least the next five years?
I dont know, You can have the best midfield (Hint, Carlton dont even have as good as midfield as the eagles/Adelaide/Geelong/Hawthorn/Port Adelaide/ Adelaide/Sydney/St Kilda/Kangaroos yet,So drafting the next josh Fraser insted of the next Dean Cox MIGHT of been a little mistake:(
TheBrownDog
17 Dec 2007, 23:12
Leuenberger did amazing things as a freshman ruckman this year.
His solo efforts against Everitt and Jolly in Round 20 was inspirational stuff.
Would surely have gone Number 1 in this years draft.
It is also becoming extremely tiresome than anyone who dares to rate a non-Carlton player higher than a Carlton player is accused of petty hatred and jealousy.
Get over yourselves FFS.
Kochie 16
19 Dec 2007, 12:25
WHat the hell? Rating a 1st year ruckman against a ruckman who hasn't even played at AFL level yet, that's screwed!
Kochie 16
19 Dec 2007, 12:31
the only berger i kno is from hungry jacks who is this berger he is just a pickle compared to kruezer. berger is outa his league if he is to be compared to a number 1 draft pick. at what number did berger n fries get drafted at ????
You should keep your mouth shut if your gonna say stuff like that! Tell me how many number 1 draft picks have won the brownlow? Being a number one draft pick has nothing to do with the players abilities or skills. Tell me this also what numbers were players like Chris Grant, James Hird, Ashley McIntosh , Adam Goodes, Simon Black, etc drafted at?
black_hart
19 Dec 2007, 13:08
Who needs Leuenberger when they'll be tapping it to Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Stevens, etc for at least the next five years?
Judd is a gun but who knows with injuries. Gibbs is unproven and may be at the Crows in five years. Murphy could also leave and he may not,you can't know what your list will be like in five years. But you certainly have the makings of a very good midfield.
As to the question Leuenberger.
TheBrownDog
20 Dec 2007, 01:50
Gibbs & Kruezer or Leuenberger & Cotchin.
Carlton could have had either of these combinations.
Which would you choose?
Gibbs & Kruezer or Leuenberger & Cotchin.
Carlton could have had either of these combinations.
Which would you choose?
Luey and Cotch.
Monkeyboy
20 Dec 2007, 05:26
Gibbs & Kruezer or Leuenberger & Cotchin.
Carlton could have had either of these combinations.
Which would you choose?
Carlton got it right. Gibbs will be the standout. But they did have the two first picks, so the should have got it right. So no massive kudos here...just a job well done.
Tarkyn_24
20 Dec 2007, 11:10
Kreuzer wouldn't have gone top 10 last year (except maybe at 8 as Collingwood need a ruckman)
Kreuzer will be a star, but it'll be the Lade vs Cox situation.
Lade's easily the second best ruck in the league, but Leuenberger's the Cox, the unbeatable.
Grimreepah
21 Dec 2007, 17:14
Who needs Leuenberger when they'll be tapping it to Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Stevens, etc for at least the next five years?
That doesn't make sense. If you've got good midfielders then you want someone who is good in the ruck to give them first use.
TheBrownDog
21 Dec 2007, 18:19
That doesn't make sense. If you've got good midfielders then you want someone who is good in the ruck to give them first use.
Plus, Judd is quality, but I'd take Black, Lappin, Power, Adcock, Johnstone over Judd, Gibbs, Murphy, Stevens, Carazzo anyday.
mattdwyer
22 Dec 2007, 14:48
Luenberger is gonna be a star !!
Cyborg_
23 Dec 2007, 14:58
Kreuzer wouldn't have gone top 10 last year (except maybe at 8 as Collingwood need a ruckman)
Kreuzer will be a star, but it'll be the Lade vs Cox situation.
Lade's easily the second best ruck in the league, but Leuenberger's the Cox, the unbeatable.
Kreuzer would not have gone in the top 10 of the 2006 draft?
He is about on par with Leuy pre draft who went at 4 (and could have gone at 1 all said and done).
So in my opinion Kreuzer belongs with the top 4 of the 2006 draft.
Not sure where this top 10 stuff comes from. It cant be from people who have watched Kreuzer as a junior. They must be reading the 199cm bio write ups on here and a part time ruck from a nuffy nuffy.
Luenberger will be a better ruck technician. but Kruezer has a lot more natural talent, and would beat him at ground level, and around the ground easily. Kruezer has the endurance and speed of a small, fast midfielder, and has a lot more versatility. Can play ruck, wing, or KP forward/utility. A freak athlete. Would have gone #2 in last years draft, behind Gibbs. With Hampson, Aisake, and Kruezer, the Blues have without question, the most raw ruck talent in the AFL. All 3 are freak athletes. 200-202cm rucks with serious leg speed. This is the new generation ruck talent, that make rucks like Cox look like dinosaurs. :)
smiddaz123
23 Dec 2007, 16:48
Luenberger will be a better ruck technician. but Kruezer has a lot more natural talent, and would beat him at ground level, and around the ground easily. Kruezer has the endurance and speed of a small, fast midfielder, and has a lot more versatility. Can play ruck, wing, or KP forward/utility. A freak athlete. Would have gone #2 in last years draft, behind Gibbs. With Hampson, Aisake, and Kruezer, the Blues have without question, the most raw ruck talent in the AFL. All 3 are freak athletes. 200-202cm rucks with serious leg speed. This is the new generation ruck talent, that make rucks like Cox look like dinosaurs. :)
Luenberger is the fastest Brisbane player over 20 metres. He is a superb athlete.
Kruezer would've gone probably picks 6-13 in the 2006 draft.
Luenberger is the fastest Brisbane player over 20 metres. He is a superb athlete.
Kruezer would've gone probably picks 6-13 in the 2006 draft.
Kruezer would have gone #2 in 2006. You'll find Kruezer, Hampson, and Aisake are quicker over 20m. :)
smiddaz123
23 Dec 2007, 17:25
Kruezer would have gone #2 in 2006. You'll find Kruezer, Hampson, and Aisake are quicker over 20m. :)
Kruezer wouldn't have gone #2 because Essendon didn't want to draft a ruckman. They wanted a KP player, ditto Kangaroos. Brisbane would've taken Luenberger still. Kruezer would've been pick 5 at best.
Palmer Stoat
23 Dec 2007, 17:29
Kruezer would have gone #2 in 2006. You'll find Kruezer, Hampson, and Aisake are quicker over 20m. :)
As Ace Ventura would say, 'Fiction is fun, but I prefer the reference section'.
Not saying Kreuzer is already/will be better by any stretch of the imagination, but I reckon a lot of you blokes have either seriously underrated him or overrated Leunberger.
It is much closer than this poll or responses in this thread suggest :thumbsu:
Kruezer has already shown more in one game. Luenberger might end up being better at the centre bounce, but Kruezer is light years ahead when the ball hits the ground. Kruezer's ability at ground level is just off the scale. :)
there's 2 reasons why leunberger is leading this poll:
1- leunberger has the same body as dean cox and people get sucked in and think he's going to be as good as cox just because their bodies are so similar. on the flipside, people look at kreuzer and compare his body with josh fraser's body. because josh fraser is a useless, gutless hack people assume kreuzer will be the same. people who think like this are doing it subconsciously but they'll find out in a few years time just who is better. the fact is this is kreuzer vs leunberger not fraser vs cox.
2- everyone that doesn't go for carlton is voting for leunberger just so carlton doesn't get anything good. the same would happen if it were an essendon or collingwood player up against anyone else. this is how the small victorian clubs who are a waste of space in our competition get their revenge.
kreuzer has shown more in one game than leunberger has in his whole career. he got more disposals in his first game than leunberger ever has in his afl career. prior to birsbane's last game, leunberger's highest hit out tally was 12 which is equal to what kreuzer got in his first game in a team which had 3 ruckmen and he only spent about half his time in the ruck. it took 2 quarters for kreuzer to equal the amount of goals leunberger has kicked in his whole afl career. any unbiased, rational supporter should be able to realise by now kreuzer is far superior to leunberger around the ground and is not far behind in the ruckwork. the only thing leunberger has over kreuzer is 4 cm, and a quicker 20m sprint time. kreuzer makes up for it all with his football smarts, mobility, clean hands, kicking, decision making, endurace, versatility, effort and one-percenters.
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=103&pid1=2008001&tid2=102&pid2=2007015
black_hart
7 Apr 2008, 13:23
I think the poll has it about right.
Leuenberger is a once in a generation player who could be better then Cox while Kruezer could be the next Josh Fraser. And I'm sure Fraser had a better debut then Cox but look have they've progressed.
Leuenberger will be the comps dominant ruckman in a few years of this I have no doubt.
TheBrownDog
7 Apr 2008, 13:25
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/compare_players?tid1=103&pid1=2008001&tid2=102&pid2=2007015
Find some stats for time on ground, then get back to us.
Kruezer's impressive debut has really got the anti-Carlton talent envy cohort upset it seems. Too bad. :)
TheBrownDog
7 Apr 2008, 13:59
Kruezer's impressive debut has really got the anti-Carlton talent envy cohort upset it seems. Too bad. :)
We're terribly envious of the talent that has you at 0-3... all against teams that didn't play finals last year.
Find some stats for time on ground, then get back to us.
It's not Kreuzer's fault he's more versitile than Leuenburger and can play just as well as a forward while Leuenburger can't do much else and has to be benched.
TheBrownDog
7 Apr 2008, 14:25
It's not Kreuzer's fault he's more versitile than Leuenburger and can play just as well as a forward while Leuenburger can't do much else and has to be benched.
Credibility lost.
Credibility lost.
How many goals has Leuenburger kicked in his career?
TheBrownDog
7 Apr 2008, 14:46
How many goals has Leuenburger kicked in his career?
1.
How many talented ruckmen has Kreuzer played against...
0.
How many wins has Leuenberger played in.
6.
Numbers, numbers, numbers.
You can pore over stats sheets and drool over your 'talented' list all like.
But until you start winning games, its just numbers and names.
1.
How many talented ruckmen has Kreuzer played against...
0.
How many wins has Leuenberger played in.
6.
Numbers, numbers, numbers.
You can pore over stats sheets and drool over your 'talented' list all like.
But until you start winning games, its just numbers and names.
It is funny how your defending of Luenberger always comes back to how many games we have won.
Why is that?
Those numbers you are telling us are irrelevant, the ones we are telling you are not.
TheBrownDog
7 Apr 2008, 15:33
Those numbers you are telling us are irrelevant, the ones we are telling you are not.
Oh dear, it seems you've missed the point.
Oh dear, it seems you've missed the point.
Apparently it is you that has missed the point.
Here we are discussing how much better Kruezer's first game was than any of Berger's games; and all you can talk about is how carlton are 0-3.
Oh dear, it seems you've missed the point.
Early days I know, but Luenberger is looking like a Peter Street type at this stage i.e. a tall bean-pole, good at the centre bounce, but a liability elsewhere. :)
smiddaz123
7 Apr 2008, 17:10
I reckon even I could out-perform Laycock around the ground.
The Bomber ruck department isn't exactly formidable. Luenberger held his own against Everitt and Jolly in hia first year.
Luenberger has my vote at the moment, but obviously Kruezer can change it if he continues to perform.
philhawk
7 Apr 2008, 18:00
Didn't Leuenberger ruck against Dean Cox on debut, leading to a win for Brisbane against West Coast at Subiaco?
Yeh, i'll take that before Kreuzer beating a second-string ruckman for Essendon.
Didn't Leuenberger ruck against Dean Cox on debut, leading to a win for Brisbane against West Coast at Subiaco?
Yeh, i'll take that before Kreuzer beating a second-string ruckman for Essendon.
A game where he amassed 3 disposals and 4 hitouts. Hardly inspiring stats.
I'm sorry that I keep repeating myself on this topic. I'm just trying to debunk this mythical reputation Leuenberger has developed. He hasn't earnt it yet.
FWIW I think he will be an awesome player, but at this point in time; after one game. Kruezer has him beat.
marcmurphy3
7 Apr 2008, 18:22
Didn't Leuenberger ruck against Dean Cox on debut, leading to a win for Brisbane against West Coast at Subiaco?
Yeh, i'll take that before Kreuzer beating a second-string ruckman for Essendon.
He got 3 hitouts. :rolleyes:. How can that be a better debut better than 16 possesions, 2 goals and 12 hitouts?
Is a better performance than I've seen from Berger in his career so far but he needs to back it up now. Will be interesting to see how he goes against his hero this week.
I think it's far far to early to judge who will be better but point is that I think all those people who decided that Berger >>>>>>> Kreuzer before he had even played a game should have rethink.
Didn't Leuenberger ruck against Dean Co...
So did he play against Dean Cox in every game? If you're going to try to fabricate some excuses at least put in a little more intellectual effort than that. lol So funny watching to bitter anti-Carlton cohort try to explain away Kruezers great debut. Huge laughes. :)
Mr Unrealistic
7 Apr 2008, 22:41
luenberger
TheBrownDog
7 Apr 2008, 23:37
Early days I know, but Luenberger is looking like a Peter Street type at this stage i.e. a tall bean-pole, good at the centre bounce, but a liability elsewhere. :)
Then quite simply, you haven't seen him play.
Cousin Jed
7 Apr 2008, 23:53
Early days I know, but Luenberger is looking like a Peter Street type at this stage i.e. a tall bean-pole, good at the centre bounce, but a liability elsewhere. :)
Looks like I found my signature for when my BFSC kicks in
lionbear
8 Apr 2008, 09:59
A game where he amassed 3 disposals and 4 hitouts. Hardly inspiring stats.
I'm sorry that I keep repeating myself on this topic. I'm just trying to debunk this mythical reputation Leuenberger has developed. He hasn't earnt it yet.
FWIW I think he will be an awesome player, but at this point in time; after one game. Kruezer has him beat.
Thats it one game. Lets see how he goes after a few games before we put a Rising Star and Brownlow around his neck.
I can see he is very exciting, but lets not compare two guys who are yet to play 22 games.
Luenberger is going to be a star and so is Kruezer, who is better? No way known you could answer that for a minimum of fifty games let alone one.
Great start by Kruezer, but it is really early days for him to be compared against anyone - sure, his debut was outstanding, but let us see how he goes against some of the best - eg Dean Cox.
Luenberger is a proven player now and will only get better - I'd prefer to wait to see how they play against one another before passing judgement.
one_twelve112
8 Apr 2008, 10:46
Great start by Kruezer, but it is really early days for him to be compared against anyone - sure, his debut was outstanding, but let us see how he goes against some of the best - eg Dean Cox.
Luenberger is a proven player now and will only get better - I'd prefer to wait to see how they play against one another before passing judgement.
Hardly.
Kreuzer's debut was outstanding, however it would be foolish to hang our hats on the one performance. I would suggest that a poll at the end of the year of Kreuzer 1st year v Leunbergers 1st year may bring things into a little more perspective. I must say, I am more than happy with Kreuzer's early signs though and will be interested to see how he developes.
wizard_9
8 Apr 2008, 13:49
In 5 year this thread will be Kruezer v Luenberger v Warnock with the title saying "Who is the AFL's bext ruckman".
Kangas_Div
8 Apr 2008, 14:03
Early days I know, but Luenberger is looking like a Peter Street type at this stage i.e. a tall bean-pole, good at the centre bounce, but a liability elsewhere. :)
You have less of a clue then i thought :o
Daytripper
8 Apr 2008, 14:14
Kreuzer broke even with Laycock and Hille monstered him with one good shoulder.
I know Blues fans have to hold on to something but you think they would have learned by now.
I swear I've seen similar posts from Carlton supporters days after Murphy and Gibbs made their debuts and whats happened since then ????????????????
And when they get another top 1 pick next year we will be seeing the same stuff again with Natainui or Rich or whoever.
Coughlan
8 Apr 2008, 16:35
there's 2 reasons why leunberger is leading this poll:
1- leunberger has the same body as dean cox and people get sucked in and think he's going to be as good as cox just because their bodies are so similar. on the flipside, people look at kreuzer and compare his body with josh fraser's body. because josh fraser is a useless, gutless hack people assume kreuzer will be the same. people who think like this are doing it subconsciously but they'll find out in a few years time just who is better. the fact is this is kreuzer vs leunberger not fraser vs cox.
2- everyone that doesn't go for carlton is voting for leunberger just so carlton doesn't get anything good. the same would happen if it were an essendon or collingwood player up against anyone else. this is how the small victorian clubs who are a waste of space in our competition get their revenge.
kreuzer has shown more in one game than leunberger has in his whole career. he got more disposals in his first game than leunberger ever has in his afl career. prior to birsbane's last game, leunberger's highest hit out tally was 12 which is equal to what kreuzer got in his first game in a team which had 3 ruckmen and he only spent about half his time in the ruck. it took 2 quarters for kreuzer to equal the amount of goals leunberger has kicked in his whole afl career. any unbiased, rational supporter should be able to realise by now kreuzer is far superior to leunberger around the ground and is not far behind in the ruckwork. the only thing leunberger has over kreuzer is 4 cm, and a quicker 20m sprint time. kreuzer makes up for it all with his football smarts, mobility, clean hands, kicking, decision making, endurace, versatility, effort and one-percenters.
Settle down princess.
The only reason Luenberger is getting more votes is because he is simpley a much better prospect.
End of story
TheGeneral
8 Apr 2008, 16:54
Settle down princess.
The only reason Luenberger is getting more votes is because he is simpley a much better prospect.
End of story
Don't care.
Kreuzer and Hampson will be the best ruck duo in the AFL for the next ten years.
Not many sides have a 6'8" ruck with similar agility but a bigger leap and more legspeed sitting on the bench.
Tigers will have Putt and Pattison. :)
Settle down princess.
The only reason Luenberger is getting more votes is because he is simpley a much better prospect.End of story
What makes you feel comfortably saying that?
Is it the fact that the only matchup between the two resulted in Kreuzer handing Leuenburger a spanking in the ruck and around the ground?
Or that Burger was picked up with pick 5 and Kruezer with pick 1?
Or that Kruezer after 1 game already has a better average stats than Leuenburger?
So which is it fool? :rolleyes:
Truth be known both are great prospects and nobody can know which one will end up better. But I'm pretty sure both clubs will be very happy with their selections at the minute.
Clearly you are an idiot that is trying to make up facts off the top of ur head Leunberger had 21 hit outs and 12 or 13 possesions on the same weekend that kreuzer played his first game. So get your facts right mate.
Also Leunbergers kicking would be equal if not better than kreuzers, He (kreuzer) did very well in his first game but it was a very forward running unnacountable game of football.
clearly you have difficulty reading what i wrote. if you have another look you'll notice i said prior to brisbane's last game.
and you're dreaming if you think leunberger's kicking is anywhere near as good as kreuzer's.
eagledream
10 Apr 2008, 16:29
Judging the two is ridiculous. As noted, the carltank game against essendon was an extremely unnaccountable contest.. 134 points conceded by Carlton is evidence of that so the fact that Kreuzer got a bit of the ball doesn't surprise me. I was impressed with his debut and i think the battle between the two will rage on for a bit yet. One good game doesn't make a career. Compare the two at the seasons end.
:)
It doesn't matter. He didn't watch the game.
No I didn't. I assume he played a good one at last. Still didn't kick any goals (i.e. 2 less than Kruezer), and less possessions than Kruezer, but I guess that's a start. :)
No I didn't. I assume he played a good one at last. Still didn't kick any goals (i.e. 2 less than Kruezer), and less possessions than Kruezer, but I guess that's a start. :)
He also did it against the second best ruckman in the league, not only that he did it against a dual All Australian, what has David Hille acheived?
Thread cleaned up and off topic rubbish/abuse deleted.
Back on topic!!!
eagledream
13 Apr 2008, 17:31
Did anyone watch last nights game Port V Lions?? For a bloke who basically rucked the entire game against arguably the comps best ruck duo and compete as well as Leuy did, for the entire game is mighty impressive. Kid will be an absolute superstar, not saying that Kreuzer wont be boy was i impressed last night.
Warwick
13 Apr 2008, 17:48
Did anyone watch last nights game Port V Lions?? For a bloke who basically rucked the entire game against arguably the comps best ruck duo and compete as well as Leuy did, for the entire game is mighty impressive. Kid will be an absolute superstar, not saying that Kreuzer wont be boy was i impressed last night.
Wasn't the first time either.
Had to compete on his own against Jolly and Everitt last year and did it magnificantly. He got Brownlow votes that game.
TheBrownDog
13 Apr 2008, 19:02
<3 Leuey. :thumbsu:
Had to compete on his own against Jolly and Everitt last year and did it magnificantly. He got Brownlow votes that game.
But... but.... but... according to Bigfooty brains trust groupthink, Leuey hadnt shown anything before last night....
62 - 14 to Berger. I'd say thats almost in the bag.
Cox is the best ruckman in the league - Berger is compared to him. Cameron Wood, in his 3rd year at the club, had to take the 3rd ruck position, behind a 1st year player..
Fraser is the number one ruck in a side that needs (or needed) to recruit a ruckman - Kreuzer is compared to him.
Join the dots.
It would be interesting what non-Lions and non-Carlton supporters thought. Hold on, anyone who picks Berger is doing so as a hatred towards Carlton.
Since a couple of you are interested in stats I'm sure you've checked out this weeks:
Berger - 22 HO against the best ruck duo in the league, 14 possies, 95 Supercoach points (meaning he played a quality game)
Kreuzer - 8 HO against the Pies attack of Fraser (pft) and Wood (3rd ruck at brisbane), 7 posessions, 39 supercoach points (ouch)
AND dont start that 'time on the ground either' because it was clear from one of the earlier posts that that is not to be taken into account..
Great win today by the way, great way to shove it up Rocca..:thumbsu:
Berger
62 - 14 to Berger. I'd say thats almost in the bag.
Cox is the best ruckman in the league - Berger is compared to him. Cameron Wood, in his 3rd year at the club, had to take the 3rd ruck position, behind a 1st year player..
Fraser is the number one ruck in a side that needs (or needed) to recruit a ruckman - Kreuzer is compared to him.
Join the dots.
It would be interesting what non-Lions and non-Carlton supporters thought. Hold on, anyone who picks Berger is doing so as a hatred towards Carlton.
Since a couple of you are interested in stats I'm sure you've checked out this weeks:
Berger - 22 HO against the best ruck duo in the league, 14 possies, 95 Supercoach points (meaning he played a quality game)
Kreuzer - 8 HO against the Pies attack of Fraser (pft) and Wood (3rd ruck at brisbane), 7 posessions, 39 supercoach points (ouch)
AND dont start that 'time on the ground either' because it was clear from one of the earlier posts that that is not to be taken into account..
Great win today by the way, great way to shove it up Rocca..:thumbsu:
Berger
It is not a very fair to compare a first year ruckman directly to a second year ruckman based on one game. Discussions of Kruezer being another Fraser is more of a worst case scenario for Kreuzer than anything else.
Personally I don't see Kreuzer developing into a Cox type extra midfielder but instead I see him as a ruckman that can potentially kick 30-40 goals per year as he can play as an additional KP forward when he is not rucking.
Both will be elite. Different styles of ruckmen though.
Hampson and Leuenberger are probably a better comparison.
Coughlan
15 Apr 2008, 20:55
It is not a very fair to compare a first year ruckman directly to a second year ruckman based on one game. Discussions of Kruezer being another Fraser is more of a worst case scenario for Kreuzer than anything else.
Personally I don't see Kreuzer developing into a Cox type extra midfielder but instead I see him as a ruckman that can potentially kick 30-40 goals per year as he can play as an additional KP forward when he is not rucking.
30-40 goals a season.
Dreaming, 20 goals a season would be a fairly good return around 1 goal a match
Both will be elite. Different styles of ruckmen though.
Hampson and Leuenberger are probably a better comparison.
Agree. Kruezer is the most atypical ruck I have ever seen. The guy plays like a genuine small midfielder - it's unbelievable to watch. :)
murph#3
21 Apr 2008, 20:03
another sensational performance from kreuzer. i don't think i've seen an 18 y.o. with as much footy smarts and a ruckman with as much mobility, endurance and skill as this kid. barring injuries, will become the greatest ruckman of the modern era.
TheBrownDog
21 Apr 2008, 21:43
another sensational performance from kreuzer. i don't think i've seen an 18 y.o. with as much footy smarts and a ruckman with as much mobility, endurance and skill as this kid. barring injuries, will become the greatest ruckman of the modern era.
Where were you last week?
paramore
23 Apr 2008, 15:04
Haven't seen enough of Kreuzer.
Blueboys7
23 Apr 2008, 18:39
Kreuzer broke even with Laycock and Hille monstered him with one good shoulder.
I know Blues fans have to hold on to something but you think they would have learned by now.
I swear I've seen similar posts from Carlton supporters days after Murphy and Gibbs made their debuts and whats happened since then ????????????????
And when they get another top 1 pick next year we will be seeing the same stuff again with Natainui or Rich or whoever.
idiot.
Eel_storm
23 Apr 2008, 18:40
Leuenbergensteiger . . . funny that the two ruck young guns of the comp are both germans or whateva.
leuenberger is more likely to be the next dean cox :thumbsu:
kreuzer is more likely to be the next josh fraser :confused:
leuenberger is more likely to be the next dean cox :thumbsu:
kreuzer is more likely to be the next josh fraser :confused:
lol. Kruezer is nothing like Josh Fraser of course - phew. I find it hard to compare Kruezer to any current or past ruck. He's basically a 20cm taller version of Marc Murphy i.e. a quality midfielder, with the added capability to contest the tap. Just amazing. :)