100th Anniversary of 1st Bloods Flag (1909/2009) - Time to put South Melbourne back in the VFL.

[McCrann]

I am not a South Melbourne supporter, or a Sydney supporter.

But recently when considering what should happen to North Melbourne I realised that one of the big problems of their relocation was that they would lose their local identity to some extent.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

Any relocation of a Melbourne team away from Melbourne in future should be accompanied by the entry of a team bearing the original name into the VFL - in North Melbourne's case the original competition that they joined in 1925.

And so, to South Melbourne - why can't South Melboure also rejoin the VFL?

Recreate a link to the local area in Melbourne that has been lacking over the past 25 years. This could be accomplished in concert with Sydney and the AFL and it would start restoring some of the lustre and spectacle to local footy in Melbourne - stregthening the 2nd Tier - without taking away a bit from the elite AFL competition.

It should be done.

There is a ground at the Junction Oval about to be abandoned by Melbourne in a couple of years time that is just waiting to be picked up by some other sport - we must make sure it remains in Australian Football's hands post Melbourne's relocation up the road.

I hereby call on all Melbourne based (and Sydney based if they have a sense of tradition) of South Melbourne/Sydney Swans to get a South Melbourne team back in the VFL for the 2009 season.

Why 2009?

On this board I shouldn't have to ask or explain, but just in case some of you don't know your history.

Your very first Premiership Flag came in 1909 against Triple-Defending Premiership Champions Carlton.

South Melbourne 4.14.38
d
Carlton 4.12.36

South Melbourne's first flag and surely there will be a big 100th Anniversary celebration of this in 2009.

(oh, btw - if not for entry into the VFL for the 2009 season, at least a launch at the 100th Anniversary celebrations for entry into the VFL in 2010)

Come on - who are the Sydney people who can make this happen - as a supporter of our great game this is something I'd really love to see happen.

As well for Fitzroy.

Think about it, we could have a suburban VFL competition a step below the elite AFL competition with at least Fitzroy, Collingwood, South Melbourne, Geelong and possibly other "original" VFL teams playing in it before we know it.

I believe getting South Melbourne up and going is the hardest task given there is already a Fitzroy team still playing in the Amateurs that could be transferred up to a restructured VFL.

Let's get it going!

[bedford]

I am not a South Melbourne supporter, or a Sydney supporter.

But recently when considering what should happen to North Melbourne I realised that one of the big problems of their relocation was that they would lose their local identity to some extent.

But it doesn't have to be that way.

Any relocation of a Melbourne team away from Melbourne in future should be accompanied by the entry of a team bearing the original name into the VFL - in North Melbourne's case the original competition that they joined in 1925.

And so, to South Melbourne - why can't South Melboure also rejoin the VFL?

Recreate a link to the local area in Melbourne that has been lacking over the past 25 years. This could be accomplished in concert with Sydney and the AFL and it would start restoring some of the lustre and spectacle to local footy in Melbourne - stregthening the 2nd Tier - without taking away a bit from the elite AFL competition.

It should be done.

There is a ground at the Junction Oval about to be abandoned by Melbourne in a couple of years time that is just waiting to be picked up by some other sport - we must make sure it remains in Australian Football's hands post Melbourne's relocation up the road.

I hereby call on all Melbourne based (and Sydney based if they have a sense of tradition) of South Melbourne/Sydney Swans to get a South Melbourne team back in the VFL for the 2009 season.

Why 2009?

On this board I shouldn't have to ask or explain, but just in case some of you don't know your history.

Your very first Premiership Flag came in 1909 against Triple-Defending Premiership Champions Carlton.

South Melbourne 4.14.38
d
Carlton 4.12.36

South Melbourne's first flag and surely there will be a big 100th Anniversary celebration of this in 2009.

(oh, btw - if not for entry into the VFL for the 2009 season, at least a launch at the 100th Anniversary celebrations for entry into the VFL in 2010)

Come on - who are the Sydney people who can make this happen - as a supporter of our great game this is something I'd really love to see happen.

As well for Fitzroy.

Think about it, we could have a suburban VFL competition a step below the elite AFL competition with at least Fitzroy, Collingwood, South Melbourne, Geelong and possibly other "original" VFL teams playing in it before we know it.

I believe getting South Melbourne up and going is the hardest task given there is already a Fitzroy team still playing in the Amateurs that could be transferred up to a restructured VFL.

Let's get it going!
as someone who has followed south to sydney your idea has a lot of merit.
i wouldn't worry about the junction oval,that will go to cricket and maybe the vafa or ajax footy club.
what could be done is to throw hellas soccer club off the lake oval and restore the ground back to footy size,this would not be too difficult.my mail is that hellas once again are not paying their bills and are completely broke,they were only put there by premier kennett trying to get more greek votes in albert park.
it would also benificial to the swans as the reserves could play in a decent comp.

[McCrann]

as someone who has followed south to sydney your idea has a lot of merit.
i wouldn't worry about the junction oval,that will go to cricket and maybe the vafa or ajax footy club.
what could be done is to throw hellas soccer club off the lake oval and restore the ground back to footy size,this would not be too difficult.my mail is that hellas once again are not paying their bills and are completely broke,they were only put there by premier kennett trying to get more greek votes in albert park.
it would also benificial to the swans as the reserves could play in a decent comp.

Wasn't aware of that situation with the lake oval - if that is true, i'd definitely be supportive of restoring the lake oval - the only question i would have is - how much will that cost given the way the ground is currently configured.

the club might have to start at the junction before moving back to lake oval in a couple of years depending on how all those things were arranged.

What I would really call on is Swans supporters such as yourselves to try and get the ear of prominent Swans supporters, even someone like Kev Sheedy, Rob Barassi - who lives in the area even now - I'm sure they'd be supportive of this sort of thing - and really try and get someone with a bit of influence to get the ear of the AFL and try and get a groundswell going to back this in - I can't accept that if a team has to relocate to remain the AFL - its roots also have to die.

God knows, if St. Kilda ever relocated - I'd support the relocated team, but I'd also like to still see a team called St. Kilda running around in a decent local competition, ala the VFL.

[RUNVS]

Your very first Premiership Flag came in 1909 against Triple-Defending Premiership Champions Carlton.

South Melbourne 4.14.38
d
Carlton 4.12.36


Both teams were very inaccurate. If that happened in the modern game both teams would be lined up against a wall and shot.

[McCrann]

Both teams were very inaccurate. If that happened in the modern game both teams would be lined up against a wall and shot.

Could have been quite muddy - did you ever see a footy match at Moorabbin? Mudheap.

[RUNVS]

Could have been quite muddy - did you ever see a footy match at Moorabbin? Mudheap.

I cant say that i have.

[TheBrownlowMan37]

Great post, McCrann, and i for one would love to see this happen. Some Swans supporters don't seem to like the link we have to Melbourne, but i say we should always embrace our history and our roots, because the Swans do have a rich history.

Having the 'reserve' players playing for South Melbourne in the VFL, would also give them a sense of the Swans' culture, so they can understand where the club came from and what it's all about. I love it when Sydney wears the big red V during the heritage round, and i'm sure the players feel a great sense of pride, too.

[robbieando]

And so, to South Melbourne - why can't South Melboure also rejoin the VFL?

No reason why a team called South Melbourne can't join the VFL, BUT the Swans would not have any links to that side due to already having a contract with the ACTAFL to play our reserves side in that competition for the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons.

As for rejoining the VFL, you might want to check your facts but we have never left, relocation is not leaving a competition, just moving cities. But if your talking about the VFL of today (and what was once called the VFA) then we left that competition in 1896 to start the VFL/AFL with 5 other clubs, then invited another two to join to make a 8 team competition that began in 1897.

Recreate a link to the local area in Melbourne that has been lacking over the past 25 years.

Club does this quite we'll at the moment, but having a VFL team wouldn't hurt. Two issues however have to be looked at

1) The cost to the club - a major reason why we didn't join the VFL for the 2008 season and stayed in the ACTAFL.
2) We are the "SYDNEY" Swans and we have to make sure we don't upset fans in our home market.Also the club I'm sure is more concerned with keeping the reserves playing their home matches in Sydney, rather than playing in Melbourne each week.

There is a ground at the Junction Oval about to be abandoned by Melbourne in a couple of years time that is just waiting to be picked up by some other sport - we must make sure it remains in Australian Football's hands post Melbourne's relocation up the road.

If we went ahead with this, then we would play at a ground that would cost us the least amount of money to use and therefore I doubt we would use a ground that would involve an upgrade before use.

I hereby call on all Melbourne based (and Sydney based if they have a sense of tradition) of South Melbourne/Sydney Swans to get a South Melbourne team back in the VFL for the 2009 season.

Nice idea, but won't happen anytime before 2011.

On this board I shouldn't have to ask or explain, but just in case some of you don't know your history.

Your very first Premiership Flag came in 1909 against Triple-Defending Premiership Champions Carlton.

That's our first "VFL" Premiership Flag, correct, but your asking us to join a league we left in 1896 for the purpose of having a celebration of Flag we won 100 years ago in another League. For the record our first Premiership in the VFA the competition your suggesting we join was in 1881 and we won another three in 1888, 1889 and 1890.

South Melbourne's first flag and surely there will be a big 100th Anniversary celebration of this in 2009.

Their will be a celebration for a 100 years since the 1909 Flag, I'm sure. But it wasn't our first and the club doesn't even see it as our first.

Come on - who are the Sydney people who can make this happen - as a supporter of our great game this is something I'd really love to see happen.

The Club Board, the Football Department and the Club CEO. But they have already committed to the ACTAFL until the end of the 2010 season.

Think about it, we could have a suburban VFL competition a step below the elite AFL competition with at least Fitzroy, Collingwood, South Melbourne, Geelong and possibly other "original" VFL teams playing in it before we know it.

What about the "Original" VFA Teams who are still important members of the VFL. I would consider their needs for more important than trying to get up far fetched sides of no purpose, such as a Fitzroy.

I believe getting South Melbourne up and going is the hardest task given there is already a Fitzroy team still playing in the Amateurs that could be transferred up to a restructured VFL.

What purpose would Fitzroy serve in the VFL that they don't already serve in the Amateurs?? Plus with the Swans how likely do you really think the Swans are to having a reserves side playing out of Melbourne when they could have out of Sydney??

Trust I would love a South Melbourne side in the VFL acting as the Swans reserves side, but a) it can't happen until 2011 b) the costs have to be factored in and c) the Swans have to find a way please the VFL into allowing them to play out of Sydney, because face it, thats the only way the Swans would get involved.

[CAS79]

Well said Robbie

100 years ago we won our first VFL/AFL flag.

The Club moved to Sydney and the Competition changed to the AFL.

BUT we are the same club in the same competition. Don’t you dare let St Kilda fans suggest we have an equal amount of flags because its just plain wrong.

I hope the 100 year anniversary will be marked in some way as I'm sure would like to go along. There will only be 3 100 year anniversary of premierships in my lifetime, unless I live to some stupid age.

[bedford]

No reason why a team called South Melbourne can't join the VFL, BUT the Swans would not have any links to that side due to already having a contract with the ACTAFL to play our reserves side in that competition for the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons.

As for rejoining the VFL, you might want to check your facts but we have never left, relocation is not leaving a competition, just moving cities. But if your talking about the VFL of today (and what was once called the VFA) then we left that competition in 1896 to start the VFL/AFL with 5 other clubs, then invited another two to join to make a 8 team competition that began in 1897.



Club does this quite we'll at the moment, but having a VFL team wouldn't hurt. Two issues however have to be looked at

1) The cost to the club - a major reason why we didn't join the VFL for the 2008 season and stayed in the ACTAFL.
2) We are the "SYDNEY" Swans and we have to make sure we don't upset fans in our home market.Also the club I'm sure is more concerned with keeping the reserves playing their home matches in Sydney, rather than playing in Melbourne each week.



If we went ahead with this, then we would play at a ground that would cost us the least amount of money to use and therefore I doubt we would use a ground that would involve an upgrade before use.



Nice idea, but won't happen anytime before 2011.



That's our first "VFL" Premiership Flag, correct, but your asking us to join a league we left in 1896 for the purpose of having a celebration of Flag we won 100 years ago in another League. For the record our first Premiership in the VFA the competition your suggesting we join was in 1881 and we won another three in 1888, 1889 and 1890.



Their will be a celebration for a 100 years since the 1909 Flag, I'm sure. But it wasn't our first and the club doesn't even see it as our first.



The Club Board, the Football Department and the Club CEO. But they have already committed to the ACTAFL until the end of the 2010 season.



What about the "Original" VFA Teams who are still important members of the VFL. I would consider their needs for more important than trying to get up far fetched sides of no purpose, such as a Fitzroy.



What purpose would Fitzroy serve in the VFL that they don't already serve in the Amateurs?? Plus with the Swans how likely do you really think the Swans are to having a reserves side playing out of Melbourne when they could have out of Sydney??

Trust I would love a South Melbourne side in the VFL acting as the Swans reserves side, but a) it can't happen until 2011 b) the costs have to be factored in and c) the Swans have to find a way please the VFL into allowing them to play out of Sydney, because face it, thats the only way the Swans would get involved.
talk about putting a downer on a good idea.
this person is the most intelligent saints supporter i've ever heard

[McCrann]

No reason why a team called South Melbourne can't join the VFL, BUT the Swans would not have any links to that side due to already having a contract with the ACTAFL to play our reserves side in that competition for the 2008, 2009 and 2010 seasons.

As for rejoining the VFL, you might want to check your facts but we have never left, relocation is not leaving a competition, just moving cities. But if your talking about the VFL of today (and what was once called the VFA) then we left that competition in 1896 to start the VFL/AFL with 5 other clubs, then invited another two to join to make a 8 team competition that began in 1897.



Club does this quite we'll at the moment, but having a VFL team wouldn't hurt. Two issues however have to be looked at

1) The cost to the club - a major reason why we didn't join the VFL for the 2008 season and stayed in the ACTAFL.
2) We are the "SYDNEY" Swans and we have to make sure we don't upset fans in our home market.Also the club I'm sure is more concerned with keeping the reserves playing their home matches in Sydney, rather than playing in Melbourne each week.



If we went ahead with this, then we would play at a ground that would cost us the least amount of money to use and therefore I doubt we would use a ground that would involve an upgrade before use.



Nice idea, but won't happen anytime before 2011.



That's our first "VFL" Premiership Flag, correct, but your asking us to join a league we left in 1896 for the purpose of having a celebration of Flag we won 100 years ago in another League. For the record our first Premiership in the VFA the competition your suggesting we join was in 1881 and we won another three in 1888, 1889 and 1890.



Their will be a celebration for a 100 years since the 1909 Flag, I'm sure. But it wasn't our first and the club doesn't even see it as our first.



The Club Board, the Football Department and the Club CEO. But they have already committed to the ACTAFL until the end of the 2010 season.



What about the "Original" VFA Teams who are still important members of the VFL. I would consider their needs for more important than trying to get up far fetched sides of no purpose, such as a Fitzroy.



What purpose would Fitzroy serve in the VFL that they don't already serve in the Amateurs?? Plus with the Swans how likely do you really think the Swans are to having a reserves side playing out of Melbourne when they could have out of Sydney??

Trust I would love a South Melbourne side in the VFL acting as the Swans reserves side, but a) it can't happen until 2011 b) the costs have to be factored in and c) the Swans have to find a way please the VFL into allowing them to play out of Sydney, because face it, thats the only way the Swans would get involved.

With all due respect, I think you're slightly missing the point I was making - particularly about "rejoining" the VFL.

I'm well aware of what happened in 1896 - we were one of the 2 sides invited to join because we had a great ground in a good central location, ie junction oval - well aware of all that.

I say rejoin, because the last time South Melbourne played in the elite league - it was called the VFL - and at the time, it was a suburban Melbourne league.

The point of having teams called South Melbourne and Fitzroy "rejoin" the VFL is not to provide a drain on a club like Sydney's resources - in fact, I don't think I ever said they should have the reserves players playing for this revived South Melbourne team (although they should get an option on that if they want) - the point is to restore the link of football to the local community.

We constantly hear about how footy has "lost its soul" and its "not for the common guy anymore." Its too "corporate" etc. etc. etc. I don't think it is - I just think it has changed and evolved with the times, but for all those who do complain about this sort of thing, restoring these 2 teams to a competition now called the VFL (VFA is dead and buried as far as I'm concerned - one of the peculiarities of the VFA was the fact that for a time they had different governing bodies that set different rules, ie 16 men on the field etc. - the point is, it is now a more unified structure as a whole) surely brings it closer to the community.

Personally, I think Sydney should rebadge its reserve team as West Sydney Wolves???, play out of the redeveloped Blacktown Oval and try and start building support for the new team out there - and play in the VFL. Playing in the Canberra League is a waste of time. In fact, the Canberra League as a whole should enter a team in the VFL. It provides a much clearer pathway for any and all players in Canberra into the VFL/AFL system.
Some of the scores I see in the paper indicate how much of a waste of time it is playing a Sydney reserves team in that league.

[snappy]

I dont mind what your saying particually about the Canberra leauge. Two things though, a national 2nd division if you like, that has representation from across the country and its divisional leauges,(perhaps something like in European Football to qualify).
And not called the VFL, obviously.
If there was enough money and interest it would be fantastic.
As far as a new brand for the swans reserves, nice idear but wouldnt happen, i guess they would only be concerned about marketing themselves.

[robbieando]

With all due respect, I think you're slightly missing the point I was making - particularly about "rejoining" the VFL.

I'm not missing the point. Your trying to link the VFL of "TODAY" with the VFL of 1981 which if I'm not mistaken are not the two same competitions. One is the VFA rebranded and the other in the AFL before it was rebranded.

I say rejoin, because the last time South Melbourne played in the elite league - it was called the VFL - and at the time, it was a suburban Melbourne league.

This is where YOUR missing the point. South Melbourne, moved to Sydney changed their name to Sydney and are still playing in the SAME elite league.

The point of having teams called South Melbourne and Fitzroy "rejoin" the VFL is not to provide a drain on a club like Sydney's resources - in fact, I don't think I ever said they should have the reserves players playing for this revived South Melbourne team (although they should get an option on that if they want) - the point is to restore the link of football to the local community.

Goodluck with getting permission to use, the names, the colours and the nicknames then without the AFL and club support because why should we forgo our rightful history so some new start up side can "restore a link" to the local community. As I said the Swans do a hell of alot in Melbourne on their links in Melbourne and I'm sure they won't allow a group to come in ruin their good work over the past decade.

We constantly hear about how footy has "lost its soul" and its "not for the common guy anymore." Its too "corporate" etc. etc. etc. I don't think it is - I just think it has changed and evolved with the times, but for all those who do complain about this sort of thing, restoring these 2 teams to a competition now called the VFL (VFA is dead and buried as far as I'm concerned - one of the peculiarities of the VFA was the fact that for a time they had different governing bodies that set different rules, ie 16 men on the field etc. - the point is, it is now a more unified structure as a whole) surely brings it closer to the community.

God save us, you just want to impose more VFL/AFL "history and tradition" on the VFA and its clubs and its history and tradition. Adding a Fitzroy and South Melbourne (without links to any AFL clubs) would be a waste of time and waste of money.

Personally, I think Sydney should rebadge its reserve team as West Sydney Wolves???, play out of the redeveloped Blacktown Oval and try and start building support for the new team out there - and play in the VFL.

a) why should the Swans be the ones that build a supporter base for a second AFL side in Sydney. If we were going to build any supporter base in Western Sydney it would be for us and us only. We aren't in the business of helping out other clubs.

b) the club tried playing out of the VFL and the SFL between 2000 and 2002 and they thought it was too costly and they didn't have control of their own players, would would they do the same again?

Playing in the Canberra League is a waste of time.

Swans don't seem to think so....

In fact, the Canberra League as a whole should enter a team in the VFL. It provides a much clearer pathway for any and all players in Canberra into the VFL/AFL system.

What and kill off the Canberra League???

Some of the scores I see in the paper indicate how much of a waste of time it is playing a Sydney reserves team in that league.

That's because of our success has forced players to stay in the reserves longer and our lack of injuries mean we get use of a full team more offen than not. But we have player 5 years in the ACTAFL and only won 3 flags. Didn't here many complaining in the first two years when we didn't win flags.

[The natural]

Great post, McCrann, and i for one would love to see this happen. Some Swans supporters don't seem to like the link we have to Melbourne, but i say we should always embrace our history and our roots, because the Swans do have a rich history.

Having the 'reserve' players playing for South Melbourne in the VFL, would also give them a sense of the Swans' culture, so they can understand where the club came from and what it's all about. I love it when Sydney wears the big red V during the heritage round, and i'm sure the players feel a great sense of pride, too.Well said Bronlowman. History and culture are the foundations of what great football clubs like The Sydney Swans are built on.Interestingly you have also made mention of the resentment Sydney based supporters have to the Melbourne link.This has been festering away for a long time and imo is a blight on the greater percentage of Sydney based supporters who are quite accepting of past club history.Its a pity these small minded imbiciles dont wake up to the fact the players have built their whole team ethos around past history and culture which imo helped deliver the ultimate to all swans supporters 2 years ago.Melbourne based Swans are well and truly over the fact there is no South Melbourne anymore but there is a Sydney Swans who they can love and support and still call their team,and the way football is going they should be very appreciative of that.While Bob Skilton is alive and The Swans produce players like Kelly and Kirk there will always be a little bit of South Melbourne Bloods spirit in the Sydney Swans.Its a pity everybody doesent just embrace the theme of Two Cities One Team and stop being so bloody petty.For what its worth i like McCranns idea but dont neccessarily need it to happen for me to feel like a true Swan.

[bedford]

Well said Bronlowman. History and culture are the foundations of what great football clubs like The Sydney Swans are built on.Interestingly you have also made mention of the resentment Sydney based supporters have to the Melbourne link.This has been festering away for a long time and imo is a blight on the greater percentage of Sydney based supporters who are quite accepting of past club history.Its a pity these small minded imbiciles dont wake up to the fact the players have built their whole team ethos around past history and culture which imo helped deliver the ultimate to all swans supporters 2 years ago.Melbourne based Swans are well and truly over the fact there is no South Melbourne anymore but there is a Sydney Swans who they can love and support and still call their team,and the way football is going they should be very appreciative of that.While Bob Skilton is alive and The Swans produce players like Kelly and Kirk there will always be a little bit of South Melbourne Bloods spirit in the Sydney Swans.Its a pity everybody doesent just embrace the theme of Two Cities One Team and stop being so bloody petty.For what its worth i like McCranns idea but dont neccessarily need it to happen for me to feel like a true Swan.
well said

[CAS79]

If someone really feels the need to watch Red and White called South Melbourne play on a suburban oval than I'm pretty sure South Melbourne districts play in the Southern League and wear red and white.

As to the old timers in the area in relation to a VFA/VFL club i'm sure there was a saying. South on Saturday and Port on Sunday, There was a lot of cross over support.

But the point is with Port Melbourne there still is a VFL link to the community and it is a historically strong VFA link to this community so there is certainly no need to put a second side in the VFL in area with a diminishing football based population.

[CharlieG]

This is something of a dream for mine. The obstacles are imposing: the VFL probably wouldn't want another club so close to Port Melbourne, and the cost would be very high. I think it's worth doing and possible, but it might take a wealthy benefactor making it a condition of a hefty bequest.

[McCrann]

This is something of a dream for mine. The obstacles are imposing: the VFL probably wouldn't want another club so close to Port Melbourne, and the cost would be very high. I think it's worth doing and possible, but it might take a wealthy benefactor making it a condition of a hefty bequest.

Charlie, you're just the man I was thinking of when I thought of this. Reading the post previous to yours, apparently


If someone really feels the need to watch Red and White called South Melbourne play on a suburban oval than I'm pretty sure South Melbourne districts play in the Southern League and wear red and white.


there is a team there already - it just needs to be placed in a different league.

To those who say embrace the 1 team 2 cities concept represented by the Sydney Swans - I say absolutely, its exactly what I would do for my team were it ever in the same situation.

As for South Melbourne and Port Melbourne supporters being cut from the same cloth, no problem there - you have them playing home matches on alternate weekends - problem solved.

The other thing about the inner city area, particularly stretching from Southbank down to St. Kilda is - this is an area of growing population, due to urban consolidation - and I realise there are a lot of other things for people to do these days, no doubt - but one need only look at the turnout at the Junction Oval each year for the "charity" match between comedians and radio presenters, or whoever it is to know that there is local demand there of some sort.

[chrismcgrath]

Go The Bloods!!!!!!!!!