Carnival Capers

[The Doctor]

To answer Dogboys question from another thread. Here are my views on the u/18's carnival;

My all Australian team (I missed the 1st round matches)

B. Josh Rudd (VC) Nik Smith (SA) Brendon Goddard (VC)
HB: Steven Salopek (VM) Stephen Gilham (VM) Callum Urch (VM)
C: Ricky Dyson (VM) Cameron Hall (VC) Anthony Corrie (NT)
HF; Luke Jericho (SA) Tom Lonergan (VC) Raphael Clarke (NT)
F: Jared Brennan (NT) Jason Laycock (Tas) Stephen Dinnel (VM)
R: Paul Johnson (VM) Ryley Dunn (VC) Byron Schammer (SA)
Int: Michael Johnson (WA) Adam Fisher (VC) Adam Cooney (SA) Courtney Johns (WA)
emg: Abe Williams (VM) Tim Callan (VC) James McEntee (SA)

My best player of the tournament was Ryley Dunn.

From the above group Dunn, Dyson, Hall, Clarke, Cooney are ineligible for the draft.

The guys I liked and would love to have in our team and would use our number 1st pick were Salopek, Gilham, Urch, Brennan, Laycock, Schammer. Would also use it on Wells who teased us with glimpses of his obvious talent with his show in the WA v SA match.

Paul Johnson got a lot of raps and deservedly so but I liked the Johnson from WA. He beat Paul in many of the ruck contests and was dangerous resting up forward. He didn't get the same opportunity as WA were very ordinary. He still has some growing and filling out to do and I expect more potential.

A few other guys not mentioned above that looked good were

Blake Grima (VM)- a classy centreman (more like Wallis than West)

Matthew Stokes and Cameron Ilett (NT) both rover types and very lively. Both got a lot of it and used it well and had some grunt as well.

Disappointments were

Jay Schulz only took 1 contested mark in 2 matches that I saw. Didn't live up to the hype imo which means of course that he'll go in the top 5 :confused: .

Hamish McIntosh - Didn't feature much but wet conditions didn't suit. Thjought he was a bit soft in his attack on the ball.

Cameron Cloke - No Skills were evident but I have to say he exuded confidence and certainly had a presence about him.

Jesse Smedts - didn't feature much and didn't play in the final.

[Captain Sensible]

Originally posted by The Doctor
Jesse Smedts - didn't feature much and didn't play in the final.


D'oh.


Does he have one more year to go in TAC Cup?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by localyokel

Does he have one more year to go in TAC Cup?

no.

Has an impressive physique and size. Mind you his opponent in the SA match didn't see too much of it either. I guess the conditions didn;t suit some of the bigger guys.

[Chops]

Originally posted by The Doctor

From the above group Dunn, Dyson, Hall, Clarke, Cooney are ineligible for the draft.


Sorry for being ignorant but why are they ineligible?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Chops


Sorry for being ignorant but why are they ineligible?

they are too young.

To be eligible this year your birth date has to be prior to July 1 1985. That rules me in :D .

[Turtleman3]

The players you mentioned may have done well. However, Scott Clayton doesn't look at the best players necessaraliy, he looks for who will be the best in three/four/five years. So someone at the carnival may not be in the best, but may do something that Clayton thinks will satnd them in good stead down the track. It is with this foresight that has enabled him to pick up players later in the draft like :

Giansiracusa (32)
Hargrave (66)
Black (31)

I can remember playing junior football with players who were great juniors but didn't cut it in open age and the opposite, not outstanding juniors but developed into champions.
Why do you think Nathan Buckley started AFL reasonably later that his peers. He was just a player in schoolboys football but he had so much room for development.

Someone like Judd is blitzing now but maybe later on other selected after him will catch him and pass him.

This will not always happed as gun juniors can often be gun senior players, but it's a point worth noting.

I personally watched Josh fraser play football when he was in Grade 6 and had no doubt he would play AFL. I have also seen other good juniors who I thought were a chance for the big league and have never really kicked on, due to various factors.
So it is quite a delicate science drafting players with a vision for down the track.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by Turtleman3
The players you mentioned may have done well. However, Scott Clayton doesn't look at the best players necessaraliy, he looks for who will be the best in three/four/five years. So someone at the carnival may not be in the best, but may do something that Clayton thinks will satnd them in good stead down the track.

you are quite right

don't forget that Scotty watches these guys week in and week out and knows a lot more about them than probably anyone. Some of these guys who were on show he would have seen up to 5 years ago when they first started playing high schoolboys.

That is why I made the point about the Johnson boys. Paul being well built and clearly much readier for senior footy but Michael looked to be more exciting in the longer term. I almost can't wait to see the draft to find out!

The team I picked here though was not necessarily the most draftable but those that I thought played the best at the carnival.

[sigscotty]

Just on that Doc, how many draftees usually come from outside the guys that do well at the carnival?

To make it easier, how many of our Clayton's boys didn't do much at the carnival in their draft years?

[OldSchool]

Originally posted by The Doctor


The team I picked here though was not necessarily the most draftable but those that I thought played the best at the carnival. How many games did you get to ?

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by sigscotty
Just on that Doc, how many draftees usually come from outside the guys that do well at the carnival?

To make it easier, how many of our Clayton's boys didn't do much at the carnival in their draft years?

Geez Sig your pushing the old grey matter there mate ;) .

According to my records

If you look at last years crop;

Sam Power was the star of the show along with Armstrong now at Melbourne. Power along with Brooks at PA were arguably the 2 most decorated young footballers in the land come draft time.

Kieren McGuinness played reasonably well for Metro last year although I'm not sure if he made the bests at any stage.

Brett Colbert didn't feature in the champs and in fact hardly played a game in the TAC.

Brian Harris played for SA the previous year and as far as I know went ok without starring. If he did he probably would have been drafted in 2000.

Aaron James was a dud that came from your 2nd favorite team :p .

2000 Group

Jordan McMahon didn't play from memory

Shane Birss didn't feature in the bests

Daniel Cross played for NSW in Div 2 and didn't feature in the bests.

Wayde Skipper didn't play as far as I know

99 Group

Rob Murphy not sure if he played. Does anyone else know?

Daniel Giansiracusa didn't star

Wiggins made All Australian for Tassie in Div 2.

Hahn made All Australian for QLD in Div 2.

Gilbee played for metro but never made the bests lists

Bowden played for NT who were well beaten in every game and he didn't feature in the bests

Hargrave - I don't know. Don't think he played at the champs that year.

Hope that helps :)

[sigscotty]

Originally posted by The Doctor


Hope that helps :)

Cheers mate. Seems to indicate that Clayton is as amazing as i thought.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by sigscotty


Cheers mate. Seems to indicate that Clayton is as amazing as i thought.

He mentioned on FoxFooty the other day he liked Paul Johnson, Salopek and Wells I think it was. But these were obvious names to call. It should be really interesting this year as there were not too many standouts at the carnival and the balance fairly even. The slippery and windy conditions were not favourable for high flyers and the bigger guys so there could be lots of surprises.

I think his selection of Murphy is a cracker from 99 coz he was only about 10 stone wringing wet when he played senior footy and was hardly heard of. There seemed to be better credentialled juniors to pick from that year when our turn came. To make judgements like that is an incredible skill. He's a genius.

[sigscotty]

Originally posted by The Doctor


He mentioned on FoxFooty the other day he liked Paul Johnson, Salopek and Wells I think it was. But these were obvious names to call. It should be really interesting this year as there were not too many standouts at the carnival and the balance fairly even. The slippery and windy conditions were not favourable for high flyers and the bigger guys so there could be lots of surprises.

I think his selection of Murphy is a cracker from 99 coz he was only about 10 stone wringing wet when he played senior footy and was hardly heard of. There seemed to be better credentialled juniors to pick from that year when our turn came. To make judgements like that is an incredible skill. He's a genius.

Yeah. I would think the drafts that are lighter for talent would give us a bigger advantage by having such a talented recruiter.

[GOALden Hawk]

Just wanted to say good to meet ya Doc!!! Really enjoyed talking footy with someone who obviously knew a hell of a lot about judging good players.

Just wondering where you reckon Jarad Brennan from NT will go?? I must admit he had me very excited watching the NT-Qld game, and given the lack of talls in the draft will he go higher than he perhaps should?

Oh, and another one - Edward Darcy (currently on Essendon's VFL list) - any chance do you reckon?

But certainly a lack of depth, along with many of the good players been too young means the draft doesn't seem to be as good as last year.

I have a feeling that one or two of the later picks will go on to be just as good as players picked in the 20's.

[The Doctor]

Originally posted by GOALden Hawk
Just wanted to say good to meet ya Doc!!! Really enjoyed talking footy with someone who obviously knew a hell of a lot about judging good players.

Just wondering where you reckon Jarad Brennan from NT will go?? I must admit he had me very excited watching the NT-Qld game, and given the lack of talls in the draft will he go higher than he perhaps should?

Oh, and another one - Edward Darcy (currently on Essendon's VFL list) - any chance do you reckon?

But certainly a lack of depth, along with many of the good players been too young means the draft doesn't seem to be as good as last year.

I have a feeling that one or two of the later picks will go on to be just as good as players picked in the 20's.

Hi GH, good to meet you and your recruiting committee as well!

I really enjoyed watching Brennan play. He and Dunn really stood out for me as players who could make an impact on a game whatever the circumstances. As you will recall QLD played a very physical and rugged sort of game and he was the one who hurt them when the game was there to be won with his silky and at times freakish skills.

I doubt he would be a key position player at AFL level. But at 191cm and with his versatility and ability to play a decent ground level as well as aerial game he would be a very good pick up. I'd be happy if the Bulldogs picked him up. Think he'd slot nicely alongside Grant and Bandy as a third tall option.

It's a bit hard to say this far out where he might go in the draft. My early thoughts would be in the late first round to second round. But what we don't yet is what players are going to emerge over the rest of the season as a result of the champs. Also there were a number of quality players not on show such as McVeigh (NSW) Rush, Hinkley and Mathieson (all from WA) and Symes (SA). Finally, as I've stated above somewhere the conditions were not great for the bigger guys to put their best skills on display making it more difficult to judge. Schulz and McIntosh in particular are obviously better players than what they showed.

As for Darcy, from a purely selfish Bulldogs point of view, I would probably only consider him for a rookie list position. As you say the draft is not looking as deep as last year so he could get picked up. I also thought that Merrett guy from QLD would be worth a rookie list position.

Finally, the Victorian players have a far greater opportunity to impress making them easier to draft. They are coached better and from an earlier age. Their facilities are better. The strength, conditioning and medical expertise available to them generally superior to the other states. They get to play quality junior football week in week out. Consequently they dominate the carnivals and this makes assessing them a bit easier, The other states don't have that same luxury or at least not quite the same level, especially the northern states. So picking up the more raw talent from these states is not as easy. This is more potential based recruiting and takes an acute eye to spot it. Clayton has picked up quite a few for us this way and it looks as though it will pay off.

BTW, I wouldn't draft Hitman!! :D

The finals series of the TAC will be the next big stage for some of these boys.

[Turtleman3]

GOALden Hawk
Scotty Clayton is doing really well at our club now with recruiting, picking up good players well down in the draft. It makes a pleasant change for us where for about 5 years other than our first choice the rest were not quite up to it.
However, I think your recruiting at Hawthorn has been excellent especially the quality you have picked up late in the draft.
Some examples are:

36 Jonathan Hay (1996)
78 Richard Vandenberg (1997)
82 Nathan Thompson (1997)
77 Adrian Cox (1998)
86 Kris Barlow (1998)

These are great examples of recruiting. Anyone canpick the early picks, it's these type that make the difference. We are just starting to do this now with Clayton, getting people like Hargrave at 66, Cross at 56 etc. In a few years we will see how good Clayton's other late draft choices have been.