AA 2005 Tredrea or Pavlich

[dyertribe]

As much as I would love to believe King Waz will get back to his best, he might just have lost a bit too much in agility and pace. I expect him to step up from last year and be a big contributor, but not dominant like in 2001-2004.

It's a bugbear of mine I know, but if 2004 was 100% WGT, his 2005 was a 95% or a 96% and certainly far superior to his 01-03.

His very good individual year was overshadowed by the team's slump - which resulted in Pavlich stealing his AA crown despite having a statistically inferior year.

[Toots Hibbert]

It's a bugbear of mine I know, but if 2004 was 100% WGT, his 2005 was a 95% or a 96% and certainly far superior to his 01-03.

His very good individual year was overshadowed by the team's slump - which resulted in Pavlich stealing his AA crown despite having a statistically inferior year.
That's a fact.

Tredders in 2005 had 36 more kicks, 42 more marks, 13 fewer handballs and had 17 more tackles (42 v 25) than Pavlich. To say that Tredders was ripped off is a truism.

The fact that Tredders was ripped off is also demonstrated in the free kick stats. Port supporters have long noted how Wazza has had to be virtually raped to receive a free kick and sometimes not even then. Where Pavlich received 24 frees for and 21 against Wazza's stats are 12 for and 24 against.

[Porthos]

I'll also mention that in 2005, a given mark on the lead for Pav was rated a contested mark, but the same mark for Tredders was uncontested.

[Toots Hibbert]

Oh and he also outscored Pavlich:- 65 goals 45pts to 61 goals 25 pts.

[Troy Wingate]

To even think Pavlich is anything close to being as good as Tredrea is absolutely rediculous. During the 2003-2005 span, not only was Tredders considered the best CHF by the so called experts, he was also considered the best player in the AFL altogether.

Pavlich is nothing compared to Tredders. I bet Tredders goes out and proves that this year.

[erical]

To even think Pavlich is anything close to being as good as Tredrea is absolutely rediculous. During the 2003-2005 span, not only was Tredders considered the best CHF by the so called experts, he was also considered the best player in the AFL altogether.

Pavlich is nothing compared to Tredders. I bet Tredders goes out and proves that this year.
Pavlich is and has been a consistently better all round footballer than Tredders but Tredders dominated the league in a Premiership year.Something Pavlich will not do.

[Porthos]

I don't think Pavlich does much that Warren couldn't do in his prime, but Warren's path was to play the hardest position on the ground every game every year, instead of giving it a go occasionally and then talking the coach into letting him play as a seagull midfielder whenever he feels like it.

Pavlich is a top player but he doesn't like getting the back of his head constantly knuckled by fullbacks. Warren takes it on and beats it, and thats what makes him better - his adversarial nature.

That nature is probably what accounts for a lot of their popularity among neutrals in fact. When Pavlich trashes your side, its because he's talented and likes doing what he's good at - when Tredrea does it, its because he's made a conscious decision to destroy your side and he knows it, his opponent knows it, and you also know it.

[Macca19]

Its interesting comparing Tredders 04 and 05. Im not sure which was better. Statistically his 05 is a touch ahead but geez his 04 was as close to if not the equal to one of Careys best seasons.

However, in 05 he stood tall for so long when the rest of the team seemed to fall by the wayside. Unfortunately, his 05 being rated was ruined by the ridiculous newspaper reports about him at the time. I also rate that as a factor as to why he didnt deservedly get AA in 05.

[SS_Fury]

I'll also mention that in 2005, a given mark on the lead for Pav was rated a contested mark, but the same mark for Tredders was uncontested.

sour grapes mate? geez thats a poor statement. Tredders best is long gone no matter how dominant he used to be. The fact now is Pav is streets ahead of the aging tredders. These things go in cycles. Soon someone like Buddy perhaps will be streets ahead of Pav when injuries etc catch up to him.

[Troy Wingate]

sour grapes mate? geez thats a poor statement. Tredders best is long gone no matter how dominant he used to be. The fact now is Pav is streets ahead of the aging tredders. These things go in cycles. Soon someone like Buddy perhaps will be streets ahead of Pav when injuries etc catch up to him.

If I were you, I'd wait til the season starts to make any type of comment about Tredrea's best. Tredders is looking very very very good out on the training track, in fact, the best he has since the 04-05 seasons.

Look out! Tredrea is BACK!

[King_Tredrea]

Tredders will kick the ton this year. Watch this space.

[Janus]

sour grapes mate? geez thats a poor statement. Tredders best is long gone no matter how dominant he used to be. The fact now is Pav is streets ahead of the aging tredders. These things go in cycles. Soon someone like Buddy perhaps will be streets ahead of Pav when injuries etc catch up to him.

Except in the one stat that matters - premierships won. You'd think from the talk around here (not on this board, but BF in general) that Tredrea is a washed up 33 year old who should be retiring instead of playing on.

Is Tredrea more skilled then Pavlich? Maybe, maybe not - but I would say that while Pavlich has more athletic ability, Tredrea has more heart - you wouldn't find him asking, as Porthos quite rightly suggests, to go into the midfield to pick up cheap stats like Pavlich. He's prepared to put his body on the line week in, week out.

It's a sad indictment on the game that people rated Pavlich, an athlete, over Tredrea, a footballer, in 2005. But I guess that's where the game is heading. I think guys like Tredders and Brown are the last of the true CHF's - the future is some sort of amalgam between a forward and a midfielder, ala Franklin/Pavlich.

But that's the future. This year, Tredders will own. Bank on it.

[morell]

Cmon Port fans.

We all know that if we could swap Tredrea 08 for Pavlich 08 we would do it with a smile.

As for their careers, Tredrea is probably 2 or 3 years ahead in terms of achievements. If Pav can get a couple more AA's at CHF/FF and maybe a flag he would have equaled the great Warmachine.

[Troy Wingate]

Cmon Port fans.

We all know that if we could swap Tredrea 08 for Pavlich 08 we would do it with a smile.

As for their careers, Tredrea is probably 2 or 3 years ahead in terms of achievements. If Pav can get a couple more AA's at CHF/FF and maybe a flag he would have equaled the great Warmachine.

Hell no. I wouldnt.

[Porthos]

sour grapes mate? geez thats a poor statement.Nah mate, that call is due to plentiful exposure to Port & Freo games in 2005, coupled with listening in on the calling of stats for those two teams.

[delirious1]

Tredrea has never had to play in a team as bad as fremantle however

[morell]

Hell no. I wouldnt.Take the patch off Troy ;)

If we could trade Tredrea for Pavlich, right now, we would do so in a jiffy for a myriad of reasons.

Thats not to say Pavlich has had a better career, because he hasn't. Yet.

[Troy Wingate]

Take the patch off Troy ;)

If we could trade Tredrea for Pavlich, right now, we would do so in a jiffy for a myriad of reasons.

Thats not to say Pavlich has had a better career, because he hasn't. Yet.

I'm serious. I would not trade Tredrea for Pavlich.

[eathb]

Take the patch off Troy ;)

If we could trade Tredrea for Pavlich, right now, we would do so in a jiffy for a myriad of reasons.

Thats not to say Pavlich has had a better career, because he hasn't. Yet.

Are u serious??

Tredrea is one of the untradeables in the club.

[Ebert80]

Tredrea has never had to play in a team as bad as fremantle however

Tredrea has lifted the overall standard of the PAFC over the years, and as good as Pavlich has been, he hasn't been able to do that to the level that Tredders has with Port.

[sabby]

Tredrea should never be talked about in a trade. Ever. He is captain and the best player ever to have played for Port Adelaide in the AFL.

Pavlich is an excellent player and any team would be ecstatic to get him but Tredrea is Port Adelaide through and through

[DockerNJL]

I'm serious. I would not trade Tredrea for Pavlich.
HAHAHA geez what a classic thread you have hear, is this the im on drugs thread??? you all have to be kidding .
Treadrea is a 1 dimensional CHF good 1 to might i add, but Pav is the all round dominent package as noted as filling AA's all over the ground.
FB,MID,CHF,FF,Bench
No contest sorry guys

[Powerstufff]

The guys are at very different stages of their careers and no one can seriously suggest Tredders is better than Pavlich now. Given luck with injury Tredders will give us a couple more years of class. Meanwhile Pavlich can take his team to a GF in a way Tredders no longer can.
Tredrea has lifted the overall standard of the PAFC over the years......While the two players have swags of similarities that is the key for me. Even though we were very strong 2002-04 Tredders stood out, and made us stronger.

.....as good as Pavlich has been, he hasn't been able to do that to the level that Tredders has with Port.Which doesn't reflect badly on Pavlich, Freo has just been an imperfect vehicle for him.

[morell]

I'm serious. I would not trade Tredrea for Pavlich.Glad you aren't in the football operations department then.

Pavlich as 5 years of AA or near enough to football left in him.

Tredrea has maybe 1.

Are u serious??

Tredrea is one of the untradeables in the club.It's not going to happen, so no, I am not really serious.

But to think we wouldn't trade a 30+ yr old with dodgy knees for the absolute best forward in the country is laughable.

No player is untradeable.

[morell]

The guys are at very different stages of their careers and no one can seriously suggest Tredders is better than Pavlich now. Given luck with injury Tredders will give us a couple more years of class. Meanwhile Pavlich can take his team to a GF in a way Tredders no longer can.Hurray! Someone with some sense.

[Troy Wingate]

Matthew Pavlich is not the best forward in the game. I still rate Tredrea ahead of him. Tredders may have been down for the past 2 years, but c'mon, the guy had a bad knee injury. Of coarse that was going to take a serious toll on Tredders until he fully recovered, which he looks to have now down. I hope Tredders make you look like a fool.

Plus, there is another forward by the name of Jonathon Brown which I rate much higher than Pavlich.

Plus, Pavlich will never make the type of impact on a game that Tredders does.

[Powerstufff]

....Treadrea is a 1 dimensional CHF good 1 to might i add....You suffer a serious lack of respect. Tredrea has spent years taking on and beating 2-3 opponents. I'm guessing you just started watching AFL football a few years ago, in a time when Tredders has been brought low with injury.
.....Pav is the all round dominant package.....No contest sorry guys
There are always dominant leading forwards around in Australian Rules footy so don't get so cocky. Pavlich is simply where Tredders was a few years ago.
No contest? We'll decide that. Let's see how Pavlich compares to:
Best and Fairest 2001, 2004, 2005
2nd Best and Fairest 1999, 2002, 2003
Premiership side 2004 (acting captain)
All-Australian 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 (vice-captain)
International Rules Series 2001, 2002
AFL Rising Star nominee 1998
Leading goalkicker 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005
Pre-season premiership side 2002 (wasn't he in the 2001 side as well?)
PAFC Life Membership 2005
PAFC captain 2006 -
PAFC vice-captain 1999 - 2005
SANFL premiership side 1996
.....as noted as filling AA's all over the ground.
FB,MID,CHF,FF,Bench
No contest sorry guysThink THEN type, not the other way around. Just when was Pavlich nominated as AA FB?

[i_love_the_hoff]

even though i am not a huge fan of 'tredders' i know for a fact that he is better than pavlich. just take this as an example (btw i am not talking about the goal) http://youtube.com/watch?v=RGnYxaEbhko

[Bender571]

Think THEN type, not the other way around. Just when was Pavlich nominated as AA FB?

Thats some good advice, you should take it. Pav was awarded (not nominated) All Australian full back in 2002 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-Australian_Team#2002

[i_love_the_hoff]

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9954162#post9954162

[estibador]

No contest? We'll decide that. Let's see how Pavlich compares to:
Best and Fairest 2001, 2004, 2005
2nd Best and Fairest 1999, 2002, 2003
Premiership side 2004 (acting captain)
All-Australian 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 (vice-captain)
International Rules Series 2001, 2002
AFL Rising Star nominee 1998
Leading goalkicker 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005
Pre-season premiership side 2002 (wasn't he in the 2001 side as well?)
PAFC Life Membership 2005
PAFC captain 2006 -
PAFC vice-captain 1999 - 2005
SANFL premiership side 1996

Pav doesn't stack up too badly considering Tredders has a few years on him.

Doig Medallist(B&F) 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007
2nd Best & Fairest 2003
All Australian 2002, 2003, 2005, 2006, 2007
International Rules Series 2002, 2003
AFL Rising Star nominee 2000
Leading Goal Kicker 2005, 2006, 2007
Freo life membership 2006
Freo Captain 2007 -
Freo vice-captain 2002 - 2006

Obviously the premiership is missing. But we'll compare them again at the end of their careers.

Think THEN type, not the other way around. Just when was Pavlich nominated as AA FB?

2002.

Pav played the year at CHB and was named at FB in the AA team.

[Porthos]

Really, we should know better than to start a Port vs Freo argument in January, Freo are always the offseason premiers.

[DockerNJL]

You suffer a serious lack of respect. Tredrea has spent years taking on and beating 2-3 opponents. I'm guessing you just started watching AFL football a few years ago, in a time when Tredders has been brought low with injury.

Sorry guess again


There are always dominant leading forwards around in Australian Rules footy so don't get so cocky. Pavlich is simply where Tredders was a few years ago.
No contest? We'll decide that. Let's see how Pavlich compares to:
Best and Fairest 2001, 2004, 2005
2nd Best and Fairest 1999, 2002, 2003
Premiership side 2004 (acting captain)
All-Australian 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 (vice-captain)
International Rules Series 2001, 2002
AFL Rising Star nominee 1998
Leading goalkicker 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2003, 2004, 2005
Pre-season premiership side 2002 (wasn't he in the 2001 side as well?)
PAFC Life Membership 2005
PAFC captain 2006 -
PAFC vice-captain 1999 - 2005
SANFL premiership side 1996
Think THEN type, not the other way around. Just when was Pavlich nominated as AA FB?

There are always dominant leading forwards around in Australian Rules footy so don't get so cocky. Pavlich is simply where Tredders was a few years ago.

maybe you should follow your advice? AA FB
i said he was good, just not in pavlich's league.

No contest? We'll decide that. Let's see how Treadrea compares to:
Remember Pav is 26 compared to 29, spent a couple years as backmen + Midfielder
Best and Fairest 2002, 2005, 2006, 2007
2nd Best and Fairest 2003
All-Australian 2002-FB, 2003-MID, 2005-CHF, 2006-Be, 2007-FF
International Rules Series 2002,2003
AFL Rising Star nominee 2000
Leading goalkicker 2005, 2006, 2007
FFC Life Membership 2006
FFC captain 2006-
FFC vice-captain 2002-2005
Career Games - 175 312 goals 199 points 61.05% Accuracy:thumbsu:
Treadrea Games 209 457 goals 314 points 59.27 %

[Macca19]

Pavlich has more to give than Tredrea does at the moment, but lets see how Tredrea comes back this year with a full pre season under his belt.

As someone who has kept a very close eye on Pavs career after playing with/against him in school, Id take Tredreas best over Pavs CHF best every single time. Pav may have versatility over Tredrea and he may be a very good defender and seagull midfielder to go with being a very good forward, but gimme an in form Tredrea at CHF over Pav at CHF.

[bomba4eva]

Tredrea was totally dominant in his prime. Sadly he seems passed it now. Unfortunate if I am right. Pavlich is now in his prime and is very dominant. Tredrea>>Pavlich for mine but he has the chance to surpass him over the next few seasons. If the Dockers can win a flag Pavlich will be lifted that much higher. Pity to see Tredrea labouring these days as I really enjoyed watching him back a few years ago.

[hoogs]

Glad you aren't in the football operations department then.

Pavlich as 5 years of AA or near enough to football left in him.

Tredrea has maybe 1.

It's not going to happen, so no, I am not really serious.

But to think we wouldn't trade a 30+ yr old with dodgy knees for the absolute best forward in the country is laughable.

No player is untradeable.

Eaxactly. Both at their peaks were maybe quite even, but Pavlich has played so well for so long with no injries that you'd have to pick him. Up there with Judd and J.Brown for being the most valuable.

Also, don't forget Pavlcih has won AA selection while playing in all positions on the ground. His versatility is something that other players can't offer.

[summerthebat]

I think the true test is to ask how many Fremantle fans would trade Tredrea for Pavlich.

I am pretty sure you could ask out entire membership base and the answer would still be 0. But shit, come on, this is one position on the ground.

[Lach72]

Except in the one stat that matters - premierships won. You'd think from the talk around here (not on this board, but BF in general) that Tredrea is a washed up 33 year old who should be retiring instead of playing on.

Is Tredrea more skilled then Pavlich? Maybe, maybe not - but I would say that while Pavlich has more athletic ability, Tredrea has more heart - you wouldn't find him asking, as Porthos quite rightly suggests, to go into the midfield to pick up cheap stats like Pavlich. He's prepared to put his body on the line week in, week out.
It's a sad indictment on the game that people rated Pavlich, an athlete, over Tredrea, a footballer, in 2005. But I guess that's where the game is heading. I think guys like Tredders and Brown are the last of the true CHF's - the future is some sort of amalgam between a forward and a midfielder, ala Franklin/Pavlich.

But that's the future. This year, Tredders will own. Bank on it.

Good Lord...ignorance at its best...

[Toots Hibbert]

Just to remind people:- This thread started out because DT pointed out in another thread that Tredrea's 2005 season was just as deserving of being named the AA CHF as his previous seasons. I haven't seen anything put forward yet to dispute that.

I'd suggest that the reason Freo supporters have come swarming out like ants whose nest has been disturbed is that Pavlich is one of the few shining lights in their teams miserable record of failure.

[noddy]

Who would i have picked 3 or 4 years ago probably Tredrea.

Who would i have picked 06 & onward most definitely Pavlich

[morell]

Who would i have picked 3 or 4 years ago probably Tredrea.

Who would i have picked 06 & onward most definitely PavlichExactly.

Staggering some Port fans cannot grasp this concept.

[Toots Hibbert]

I don't think you should take the blind loyalty of one or two posters as an indication that the rest of us are unaware that Tredders has been hobbled by injury for the past few seasons and is not guaranteed to get back to his best even if uninjured this year.

[Toots Hibbert]

Pavlich has more to give than Tredrea does at the moment, but lets see how Tredrea comes back this year with a full pre season under his belt.

As someone who has kept a very close eye on Pavs career after playing with/against him in school, Id take Tredreas best over Pavs CHF best every single time. Pav may have versatility over Tredrea and he may be a very good defender and seagull midfielder to go with being a very good forward, but gimme an in form Tredrea at CHF over Pav at CHF.
Just on that point Macca, who is to say that Tredders could not have been a terrific CHB? I think with his strength, speed and agility plus his vison and tremendous disposal off either foot he could easily have slotted into that role and provided a terrific launching pad into attack while keeping his opponent under control. I think the only reason it was never tried is that he was too valuable up forward.

[portentous]

Pavlich is more versatile, but I think Tredders is stronger and a "smarter" player. You only have to look at some of Tredders' work off the ball when he wasn't at full fitness to know that.

Right now if I were picking a side, I'd pick Pavlich ahead of Tredders.

Both are great players and it's been a privilege to watch both their careers thus far. I actually think Pavlich might have won a Brownlow if he'd been almost anywhere but at Freo.

[DockerNJL]

Just to remind people:- This thread started out because DT pointed out in another thread that Tredrea's 2005 season was just as deserving of being named the AA CHF as his previous seasons. I haven't seen anything put forward yet to dispute that.

2005 Pavlich
271 Kicks 101 HB = 382 Pos 178 Marks 25 Takles 14 Brownlow Votes
61 Goals 25 Points 70.93%

2005 Treadrea (not including finals)
281 Kicks 82 HB = 363 Pos 198 Marks 31 Tackles 11 Brownlow Votes
61 Goals 43 Points 58.65%

Look i think there seasons are compairable by stats but pavlich in '05 had a game breaking ability throughout the year that nearly put his side into the finals of his own boot. His accuracy was mind boggling all year.
I remember the Adelaide game where he kicked 8 goals 1 for the game i think 6 came in the last quarter + we nearly stole a game we shouldn't of have.
Great players both of them but Pav has acheived everything except for a premiership which Treaders has and all in 3 years younger.
If Pav keeps going how he is he will go down as 1 of the all time greats of the game no doubt Treaders will to But to say you wouldn't trade him right now for pav which is what i refered to before getting the stats backlash is either rubbish or stupidity.
we are talking about a 5 times AA vs a 4 times AA both great players.

[Macca19]

Just on that point Macca, who is to say that Tredders could not have been a terrific CHB? I think with his strength, speed and agility plus his vison and tremendous disposal off either foot he could easily have slotted into that role and provided a terrific launching pad into attack while keeping his opponent under control. I think the only reason it was never tried is that he was too valuable up forward.

I think he could have made an excellent defender and I remember the media for quite a few years suggesting he should be played at CHB.

[Powerstufff]

.... who is to say that Tredders could not have been a terrific CHB? I think with his strength, speed and agility plus his vison and tremendous disposal off either foot he could easily have slotted into that role ......Spot on. And I don't think it's too late to try him down there, but perhaps as a back pocket rather than a CHB. A post-Tredrea forward structure needs a time to develop, even while we have the luxury of being able to put Wazza out on the ground.

.... I think the only reason it was never tried is that he was too valuable up forward.We played a Tredrea-centric forward set-up and he/we were successful because of it. As a fan I knew the weakness of that, one day he would be injured/too old to command CHF. I'm glad that that moment came and that we seem to finally be developing a viable alternative. I don't want to go back to that dependency. I don't want to kid myself, as some seem to want to, that we should go back to the fairly one dimensional Tredrea based attack.

[erical]

But to think we wouldn't trade a 30+ yr old with dodgy knees for the absolute best forward in the country is laughable.


Jonathon Brown may wish to argue with you there old mate?:o

[morell]

Jonathon Brown may wish to argue with you there old mate?:oIt's close, but I think Browny is overrated because of his menacing nature. He's big and mean so when he takes a pack mark its somehow sooo much better than anything anyone else has done.

They're both guns, but Pavlich is better (and has a MUCH better track record). IMO.

[Troy Wingate]

Don't even really understand why you are basically comparing Tredrea to Pavlich for. Pavlich is more like Chad Cornes than Tredrea.

Now if you wanna compare Tredrea and Pavlich as forwards. I'll take Tredrea every day.

Compare Pavlich and Cornes coz of their versitility around the ground, I'll take Cornes every day too.

[Powerstufff]

It's close, but I think Browny is overrated because of his menacing nature. He's big and mean so when he takes a pack mark its somehow sooo much better than anything anyone else has done.

They're both guns, but Pavlich is better (and has a MUCH better track record). IMO.Brown is a different type of player. The reason the Tredrea/Pavlich discussion resonates for us is their similarity as forwards at different times in their careers.

[Frigate]

Don't even really understand why you are basically comparing Tredrea to Pavlich for. Pavlich is more like Chad Cornes than Tredrea.

Now if you wanna compare Tredrea and Pavlich as forwards. I'll take Tredrea every day.

Compare Pavlich and Cornes coz of their versitility around the ground, I'll take Cornes every day too.

:eek: ??????

Geez, a good year in horticulture in the Port of Adelaide I presume.

It's close, but I think Browny is overrated because of his menacing nature. He's big and mean so when he takes a pack mark its somehow sooo much better than anything anyone else has done.

They're both guns, but Pavlich is better (and has a MUCH better track record). IMO.

Brown is the best player in the AFL at the moment. He is not over-rated.
He is one of the only players that will take a mark running with the flight in to a pack, much like Carey used to.

[Toots Hibbert]

2005 Pavlich
271 Kicks 101 HB = 382 Pos 178 Marks 25 Takles 14 Brownlow Votes
61 Goals 25 Points 70.93%

2005 Treadrea (not including finals)
281 Kicks 82 HB = 363 Pos 198 Marks 31 Tackles 11 Brownlow Votes
61 Goals 43 Points 58.65%

Look i think there seasons are compairable by stats but pavlich in '05 had a game breaking ability throughout the year that nearly put his side into the finals of his own boot. His accuracy was mind boggling all year.
I remember the Adelaide game where he kicked 8 goals 1 for the game i think 6 came in the last quarter + we nearly stole a game we shouldn't of have.
Great players both of them but Pav has acheived everything except for a premiership which Treaders has and all in 3 years younger.
If Pav keeps going how he is he will go down as 1 of the all time greats of the game no doubt Treaders will to But to say you wouldn't trade him right now for pav which is what i refered to before getting the stats backlash is either rubbish or stupidity.
we are talking about a 5 times AA vs a 4 times AA both great players.
You need to address the bolded bit to someone other than me. :cool:

Tredders should have been AA CHF in '05 making it Tredders 5 and Pavlich 4. People should also remember that Tredrea'sperformance in 05 was in a side that was disfunctional for much of the season making his stats even more impressive.

[DockerNJL]

[quote=DockerNJL;9956757]
You need to address the bolded bit to someone other than me. :cool:

Tredders should have been AA CHF in '05 making it Tredders 5 and Pavlich 4. People should also remember that Tredrea'sperformance in 05 was in a side that was disfunctional for much of the season making his stats even more impressive.
you need to adress the bit in bold, i just did in that post?????? :rolleyes:
You made your point earlier that your discussion here was based soley on that Treaders in 05 was better i replied with a season comparison or was that to hard to read???
disfunctional how? you won the cup the year before, made the finals and won 1 in 05 compared to freo's season now that was a disfunctional roller coaster ride as we all know. So i dont really get your point here.

[Troy Wingate]

Freo have been up and down and disfunctional since they entered the AFL, not just the 05 season.

[Janus]

I don't think anyone is disputing the fact that Pavlich is the better player RIGHT NOW - hell, he's quite a bit younger, more athletic and fits into the new mould of player that is versatile enough to play in several positions. Would I swap Tredrea for Pav? You bet - only because the style of game plan we seem to be adopting relies on speed, one thing that Tredrea with two knee recons will never regain (not to 2004 form anyway).

Pavlich has for so long been the shining light in a sea of mediocrity - one of the few things that Freo fans can hang their hat on. If he'd gone to another club who just lacks the ingredient of a key forward, I'm pretty positive he'd have a premiership by now - so it shows his character that he was willing to stay loyal to Fremantle for so long.

I really hope for his sake Freo does well this year, and finally wins a premiership over the next three years. Otherwise his epitaph will read "What could have been..."

[Burninglevi]

I honestly don't see the point of comparing Pavlich's versatility to Tredrea's supposed lack of. Tredrea was never needed to fill holes around the ground, That's what Cornes is for. As a dominating CHF i would go for Tredrea ourley for his strength and leadership. The game for Freo against the Bulldogs this year is an example. Freo were in the game at three quater time and still a chance t make the finals and Pav went missing, freo lost. In that circumstance i would take Tredders to step up or atleast provide possesions and a contest, Pav provided nothing in a needed situation. Look at the GF and Tredders was one of very few who actually stood up and tried to carry the team forward. If push came to shove, even now, i would take Tredrea. If yoiu want a random minor round match, i'd take Pav.

As far as 2005 goes, i think Warren is a victim of his own negative press. Pav gets the favourable comments (up until this year) while Tredrea has always had perseved(sp?) negative traits about him.

As far as trading him now goes, there is more about a club then it's players. Even if a straight swap was available i doubt Port would go through with it. You can't trade off your captain and someone who has given his heart to a club and not expect some very negative reactions for supporters and other players at the club.

[Lach72]

I honestly don't see the point of comparing Pavlich's versatility to Tredrea's supposed lack of. Tredrea was never needed to fill holes around the ground, That's what Cornes is for. As a dominating CHF i would go for Tredrea ourley for his strength and leadership. The game for Freo against the Bulldogs this year is an example. Freo were in the game at three quater time and still a chance t make the finals and Pav went missing, freo lost. In that circumstance i would take Tredders to step up or atleast provide possesions and a contest, Pav provided nothing in a needed situation. Look at the GF and Tredders was one of very few who actually stood up and tried to carry the team forward. If push came to shove, even now, i would take Tredrea. If yoiu want a random minor round match, i'd take Pav.

As far as 2005 goes, i think Warren is a victim of his own negative press. Pav gets the favourable comments (up until this year) while Tredrea has always had perseved(sp?) negative traits about him.

As far as trading him now goes, there is more about a club then it's players. Even if a straight swap was available i doubt Port would go through with it. You can't trade off your captain and someone who has given his heart to a club and not expect some very negative reactions for supporters and other players at the club.


PF 2006...
One of the best performances you will see...
I am excited about the year to come for the big guy I must say...

[Toots Hibbert]

you need to adress the bit in bold, i just did in that post?????? :rolleyes:
Read what I bolded again. I was pointing out that you are quoting the wrong person with regard to whether you'd pick Pavlich ahead of Tredrea now. I'm quite prepared to acknowledge that Pavlich's last two years have been better than an injury ridden Tredrea's.

With regard to their 05 stats on your amended comparison Tredrea's stats still look better than Pavs. You then go on to state that Pavlich was better because he had a game breaking ability. I don't know whether you watched Tredders performance against North Melbourne in the '05 final at Docklands but I can assure you that North Melbourne fans were squealing in a thread on their board as Tredrea tore their side to pieces in a "game breaking performance".

Your denial that the Port side was disfunctional in 2005 indicates that you didn't watch our games. "Premiership hangover" was the term that was applied until late in the season when we scraped into the finals, dished out a thrashing to the Roos on the back of Tredrea's stunning display then got walloped by the Crows the following week.

[King_Tredrea]

Tredrea will tear the AFL apart in '08

[Forzaport]

What's the point of this thread again? It's like comparing a lamborghini with a ferrari! Both players are absolute guns in their own right. For the record i think 2005 was one of tredder's best, and he was very unlucky no to get AA. Still, i'm glad that pav got it, he had a great year.

[dyertribe]

Lawl. Great thread.

[morell]

Lawl. Great thread.Look what you've done DT. I hope you're happy.

[dyertribe]

As far as 2005 goes, i think Warren is a victim of his own negative press. Pav gets the favourable comments (up until this year) while Tredrea has always had perseved(sp?) negative traits about him

Absolutely.

The character assassination Tredrea has suffered in the past 3-4 years has been an absolute disgrace.

Here's a humble bloke, who is as Port Adelaide as any man that has ever walked into Queen Street in the 138 years of its existence. He loves the game, loves the club and is willing to do anything to help his teammates get the most out of themselves both on and off the field.

He's climbed to the pinnacle of his sport and remained there for half a decade (2001-5) and with little fanfare. No shameless self-promotion, no questionable off-field behaviour, just the ultimate professional who is determined to keep improving himself.

But across the league - fans, opponents and media alike - he's considered to be arrogant, self-centred, aloof and generally a shit bloke.

Why?

He's generous, donating his copious 2004 Player of the Year media awards to charities - when a lot of players either divvy such loot up with teammates or sell it to put the proceeds into the end of season trip. But heaven forbid he's snapped at a particular moment checking his mobile at a post-match function. He's also just bitten into a shit sandwich regarding his contract extension, not once complaining or playing public games via his agent despite the fact he'd be well within his rights to expect the sort of fat backended contract for services rendered that McLeod enjoys.

He was all too happy to take Justin Westhoff under his wing to mentor, when he could've just as easily palmed him off to worry about his own post-knee rehab.

He's always been meticulous in his preparation and put the game first - but Nathan G. Brown and Nick Riewoldt mocked him on their radio show because he wouldn't go out and hit the piss on the last Irish tour they were all on. Heaven forbid he might want to concentrate on playing for his country than sinking endless pints of Guinness.

He's always been passionate and loves interacting with the Port crowd, of which it should always be remembered he is one of us - the only difference is he was born with the ability to jump the fence and actually pull the guernsey on.

Because of this passion we've seen many a WGT Double Fistpump™, but we've also seen the ill-fated WGT Wassup!™ which was a bit of fun inspired by his Arsenal idol, Thierry Henry - but somehow this was manipulated by the media into being some sort of spiteful swipe at Nick Stevens(!).

Then there was the WGT Victory Bow™, which I and others around me took to be a clear signal to the Port Adelaide people and the rest of the league that "hey, I'm back" or "we're back" after both he and the side were written off constantly throughout 2006/7 - but the media and outside football public perceived it to be some sort of grotesque show of arrogance and disrespect to North, Geelong, the memory of Princess Di and Robert Walls' beard. What?!

Had Warren played for a big Melbourne club - especially a Collingwood or an Essendon - he'd rightly be revered as one of the ultimate players of the past decade, both on and off the field.

Instead, because of the general media enmity and ignorance towards Port Adelaide, he currently enjoys an onfield reputation far below what he deserves and an off-field reputation that couldn't be wider of the mark.

[Janus]

Great post, DT. Succiently puts into words why I love Tredrea - the 'arrogance' he has displayed in the past is only people putting there own spin on things. God forbid if the man wants to have a little fun out there. If he does, he's disrespecting the opposition. If he doesn't, he's not celebrating with his teammates.

I for one am looking forward to more WGT trademarks this year.

[5um0F1]

Great post

I too look forward to Wazza 08 !

[Macca19]

Fantastic post DT. Right on the money.

[BWST]

B
Then there was the WGT Victory Bow™, which I and others around me took to be a clear signal to the Port Adelaide people and the rest of the league that "hey, I'm back" or "we're back" after both he and the side were written off constantly throughout 2006/7 - but the media and outside football public perceived it to be some sort of grotesque show of arrogance and disrespect to North, Geelong, the memory of Princess Di and Robert Walls' beard. What?!



Nothing is ever mention of any other sides victory, goal celebrations. Take Andrew Mcleod's " Leighton Hewittesque Salutes " for instance. Predictably boring/sickly.

[Predator.]

Still was a very good player in his primeHow gracious of you, Noddy.

Get your hand off it, in his prime he was the most dominant player in the land by a street.

[MrMeaner]

It is a testament to the oversatuation of footy coverage and the publics' insatiable need for more that this sort of discussion even occurs. The footy media and, dare I say it, these boards need something to occupy the space. Thus, 'issues' such as Tredder's character and comparisons to other players (whether they are actually comparable or not) come up again and again. It gets to be a bit much.

On the topic itself, (and at risk of appearing a tad hypocritical given the above) a more appropriate comparison would be Chad Cornes v Pavlich. Both have played the utility role. Granted, Pavlich has now come to hold down a key forward position, but I suspect that had we not had Tredrea, Cornes would occupy the same position in our team.

[Predator.]

Missed that post of yours DT. Sums up brilliantly a number of things we've all thought and felt for a long time. Good work :) :thumbsu:

[noddy]

How gracious of you, Noddy.

Get your hand off it, in his prime he was the most dominant player in the land by a street.

Definitely the most dominant chf in his prime

[hoogs]

Pavlich has kicked an average of 1.8 goals and 1.1 behinds per game in his career, while Tredrea has 2.2 goals per game and 1.5 behinds.

I guess Port supporters are licking their lips thinking that this proves Tredrea is the better performer. That is until you consider the fact that Pavlich only began spending his games in the forward line 3 years ago.

Last year Pavlich averaged 3.3 goals a game, something Tredrea has never done. that's while avergaing 17.3 disposals a game. Something that Tredrea has also never done.

Some people here have said that Tredrea should have won AA in 05 instead of Pavlich. Tredrea had 16.5 disposals per game for an avergae of 2.5 goals per game. Pavlich had 16.9 diposals and 2.7 goals a game per game in 05. It may well have been Tredrea's wasteful 1.9 behinds per game in 05 that saw Pavlich pip him. while it was obviously a very tight decision, the stats don't exactly point to a traversty, so the selectors decision cannot be disputed.

Pavlich has had 32 touches in a game, while Tredrea's highest is 24.
Pav has had 18 marks and 18 handballs in single games. Tredrea has had 17 and 10 respectively.
Pavlich has kicked 9 goals in a game, while Tredrea has only kicked 8. Heck, Medhurst has kicked more than that in a game.
Pav has won 5 AA selections, Tredrea has had 4 and will be lucky to get anymore, while Pav is expected to pick up another few.

Pavlich's last 3 years in the forward line are better than any 3 year period of Tredrea's career.

So, Pavlich has shown that he is better than Tredrea, whether you look at it by who has had the best single game performance, season performance, or 'era' performance.

Sure statistics don't show everything. Players get in off field trouble, do stupid things on the field, lack in leadership, lack in intelligence or have injuries. Pav being a Science student, who has a club record for consecutive games, has never been suspended or in trouble off the field, is captain of his club and one of the most highly respected football players by all involved in football, it would seem that statistics are a good decider.

I understand that Port supporters love Tredrea and rightfully so, as he is a champion player that is (was?) among the games best. However, the facts show that he is behind Pavlich.


Reference:

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-port-adelaide-power--warren-tredrea

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/pc-fremantle-dockers--matthew-pavlich

[Predator.]

That's all wonderful Hoogs, but Pavlich has never had a season anywhere near as dominant as was Tredrea's 2004.

[hoogs]

That's all wonderful Hoogs, but Pavlich has never had a season anywhere near as dominant as was Tredrea's 2004.

He kicked 81 goals in 25 games and Pavlich kicked 72 goals from 22 games this year, while also contesting the centre bounces. How can you say 'he never had a season near' Tredrea's when he clearly has?

Had Pav played 04 in the forward line, he may well have beaten the competition for that particualr year as well, if not better than Tredrea. Certainly if he had played his whole career in the forward line.

This is just another reminder that Pav can, and has, won AA selection all over the ground.

[CarnCrows]

I can see why Port supporters get frustrated by the light he is seen. He must be one of the most professional in the way he looks after himself, never nasty on field, give all to his club and passionate about the supporters. Still personally I dont like Tredders (to me he comes across like an arrogant twat like Carey).

I hate comparing players. Tredders in his prime pantsed Pav, but Pav should be entering his prime now and maybe they will just play him at CHF/FF, so who knows? I think the more fairer debate will be Pav v Brown v Riewoldt etc.

I still laught at the WGT Wassup!™ Classically embarrasing :D.

[Mr Magoo]

The one who got away is the only way i can describe Pavlich. I have no doubt in my mind that if we would've drafted Pavlich we wouldn't be sitting on one premiership win. That's all in the past anyway. Both are good players as i've seen Warren absolutely dominate games (the one against Carlton was a prime example before he injured his knee) & then i've seen Pav do the same to the crows :D on a few occasions. :thumbsu:

Anyway both are great players & i'll leave it at that as Pavlich hasn't reached his prime yet, where Tredrea's prime can be compared to the great one 'Carey'.

[Macca19]

Pavlich has kicked an average of 1.8 goals and 1.1 behinds per game in his career, while Tredrea has 2.2 goals per game and 1.5 behinds.

I guess Port supporters are licking their lips thinking that this proves Tredrea is the better performer.

Nope. Not even.

Last year Pavlich averaged 3.3 goals a game, something Tredrea has never done. that's while avergaing 17.3 disposals a game. Something that Tredrea has also never done.

Pavlich averaged 3.27 goals a game in 07. In 04, Tredrea averaged 3.24 goals a game. The difference is not even 1 goal.

Some people here have said that Tredrea should have won AA in 05 instead of Pavlich. Tredrea had 16.5 disposals per game for an avergae of 2.5 goals per game. Pavlich had 16.9 diposals and 2.7 goals a game per game in 05. It may well have been Tredrea's wasteful 1.9 behinds per game in 05 that saw Pavlich pip him. while it was obviously a very tight decision, the stats don't exactly point to a traversty, so the selectors decision cannot be disputed.

Stats dont tell the whole story now though do they, as you said. He had a higher disposal and kicking efficiency, more tackles, more marks, more marks inside 50s and more goal assists.

Pavlich has had 32 touches in a game, while Tredrea's highest is 24.

Tredrea has also never played full games as a midfielder before, he hasnt had to.

Pav has had 18 marks and 18 handballs in single games. Tredrea has had 17 and 10 respectively.

Pavs highest handballs in a game is 14 not 18.

Pavlich has kicked 9 goals in a game, while Tredrea has only kicked 8. Heck, Medhurst has kicked more than that in a game.

What has Medhurst got to do with anything? Ive never seen Medhurst play as a CHF either. Tredreas had more 6+ goal games in his 'era' period compared to Pavlich in his (9 to 7)



Pavlich's last 3 years in the forward line are better than any 3 year period of Tredrea's career.

Not entirely true actually.

Tredrea has also had more Brownlow votes in a year as well.

So, Pavlich has shown that he is better than Tredrea, whether you look at it by who has had the best single game performance, season performance, or 'era' performance.

Again, not true at all. You can pick and choose stats to suit your argument all you like, as has been shown.

[Troy Wingate]

Freo supporters can claim all they like that stats mean Pav is a better player. Fact is, they don't. Pav will NEVER have the same type of impact on a game that Tredrea has. Just Tredrea's physical presence on the ground makes Port Adelaide that much better. Same doesn't happen with Freo.

[hereselmo1]

How about the one percenters?

Who would rate better on shepherds?
Hard ball gets?
Inspiring team mates?
Physical presence?
Leadership?
Sacrifice?
Determination?
Performing under injuries?

I think we all know who performs better on all of these counts

[Troy Wingate]

How about the one percenters?

Who would rate better on shepherds?
Hard ball gets?
Inspiring team mates?
Physical presence?
Leadership?
Sacrifice?
Determination?
Performing under injuries?

I think we all know who performs better on all of these counts

These are exactly the things that make me pick Tredrea over Pavlich. Compared to Tredrea, Pavlich is a wimp.

[Sandola]

These are exactly the things that make me pick Tredrea over Pavlich. Compared to Tredrea, Pavlich is a wimp.

Yes, and they're the very qualities that ensure that we won't trade him. We've got a handful of great forwards coming through, but none of them, and certainly not Pavlich, have these particular leadership qualities to the extent that Tredders has. We need Tredrea for as long as he can go on.

[King_Tredrea]

Having said all this, and yes i certainly agree Tredders is the better player at his best, Warren has struggled through 2006 and 2007 and this year is his time to "return" so to speak

[hoogs]

Pavlich averaged 3.27 goals a game in 07. In 04, Tredrea averaged 3.24 goals a game. The difference is not even 1 goal.


It's still more. Please provide your source though.


Stats dont tell the whole story now though do they, as you said. He had a higher disposal and kicking efficiency, more tackles, more marks, more marks inside 50s and more goal assists.


Are you talking about yearly, career, or since Pavlich has played forward? Or are you judging on Tredrea's 'era', which is convenient for you...Isn't this still his era, and shouldn't he still be getting judged on his last 2 years?

Also, what is your source for these stats? Please link. Odd that you says stats don't show the story, then you rattle off some stats? See the hypocrisy?

By the way, Pavlich has had 9.2 marks per game in a year, along with Tredrea's 9.2 per game for a season, so I don't see how Tredrea has performed better.

If we're talking about Tredrea's career then that is understandable, as Pavlich was spoiling balls down back for half his career. If you're referring to his career, then Pavlich has had 1.8 tackles a game, opposed to Tredrea's 1.4 per game. You really need to make these things clear, as you're very ambiguous. Still, just in case, Pavlich has averaged 3 tackles a game in a season, while Tredrea has only managed a best of 1.8 in a season. Tredrea may have marked more inside 50, though I also want a source or reference for that stat, as with the others. However, surely if Tredrea had marked more inside 50s than Pavlich, he would have a higher goal average, but I guess his bad goals to behinds ratio may be a reason for ths.


Tredreas had more 6+ goal games in his 'era' period compared to Pavlich in his (9 to 7).


Pavlich is in the middle of his prime, so lets judge that one after he retires.


Tredrea has also never played full games as a midfielder before, he hasnt had to.


Well he had 30 disposals from CHF last year. I know it's hard to believe, but players can have that kind of effect on a game from CHF.


Again, not true at all.


Well show some proof. Reference something. Just show some kind of source. I'd love to take your word for it, but your hearsay is evidently flawed.


You can pick and choose stats to suit your argument all you like, as has been shown.

Yeah, I've only picked marks, goals, accuracy, tackles, and disposals, over games, seasons and careers. Totally selective. How about you try to show me some with a source.

[King_Tredrea]

if you want to get all particular, after the h & a season in 2005 -

Tredrea 198 marks, Pavlich 178

Tredrea 61.43, Pavlich 61.25

Pavlich 372 touches, Tredrea 363

its pretty obvious all that got Pav over the line was that the selectors felt like a change. and for Tredrea to not at least make the bench was criminal

[dyertribe]

It's still more. Please provide your source though.

What is this 'please provide your source' nonsense?

You make it sound as if Macca19 has quoted obscure draft camp vertical leap and sprint figures from 10 years ago.

Tredrea 81 goals in 25 games in 2004 = 3.24 per game.

Hardly rocket science is it?

[dyertribe]

Still, just in case, Pavlich has averaged 3 tackles a game in a season, while Tredrea has only managed a best of 1.8 in a season.

Ridiculous comparison.

One achieved that career high playing predominantly as a utility midfielder, the other as a permaforward.

If you were applying the strange measure of tackles per game fairly, you'd only compare those years in which Pav also played as a permaforward:

2005: 22 tackles @ 1.1 per game
2006: 36 tackles @ 1.4 per game
2007: 32 tackles @ 1.5 per game

Tredrea's return is regularly between 1.3 and 1.8.

Yeah, I've only picked marks, goals, accuracy, tackles, and disposals, over games, seasons and careers. Totally selective. How about you try to show me some with a source.

Of course you've been selective. Your use of tackle counts being the prime example.

It'd be like comparing Tredrea with Scott Lucas and having an Essendon fan go "LOL Lucas has averaged 3 spoils per game in one season, Tredrea has only averaged 0.01 {=0D~~~~"

[Macca19]

It's still more. Please provide your source though.

.03 a game is nothing. As I said, its not even an extra goal a season when calculating it out.

My sauce is both AFL Tables and the 2007 AFL Prospectus. Both the site and the book use the official AFL stats. Footywire doesnt.

Are you talking about yearly, career, or since Pavlich has played forward? Or are you judging on Tredrea's 'era', which is convenient for you...Isn't this still his era, and shouldn't he still be getting judged on his last 2 years?

I was comparing Tredrea and Pavlichs 05 seasons

[Ford Fairlane]

It's still more. Please provide your source though.


Seriously you're cracking me up. You get all huffy about the accuracy of stats ... you the guy who claimed in an earlier post that Pav won AA selection over Tredrea because Pav averaged a more accurate 1 point/game in 2005 than Tredrea's average of 2 points per game? I've heard of drowning men clutching at straws, but not snakes - and you've got a firm grip on a King Brown or maybe it's just a trouser snake.

And if you want to compare apples with apples, I think you'll find that Warren - over a 22 game h&a season in 2004 compared to Pav's 2007 22 game h&a season - had a better than 3.3 goal per game average. I think you'd find if you examine their most recent goal scoring performances over a comparable 25 game season (22 h&a + 3 finals - admittedly Warren's includes a GF, Pav's only gone as far as a PF) Warren comes out in front again.

And you claim that the closeness of the stats means the selector's decision can't be disputed? Funny, I'd have thought that's exactly the environment in which you'd start a debate about relative merits.

At the end of the day neither side will agree with the other's position on who is the more deserving of the higher accolades, but it's an interesting debate. Stats can be twisted and turned however you want to create a favourable argument. Personally I think Pav is a terrific player, but having seen so much of Warren from his pre-Power days at Alberton throughout his illustrious career I'm in awe of how he strode like a colossus over the club and the game at his peak. He has gone all the way to the holy grail, and like it or not (and how we heard this argument in the Tredrea v Brown debates) it counts for a lot. Had he played in a high profile Victorian club he would be recognised as the giant he is. And maybe if he had played at a lesser club which magnified his contributions, he would be lauded more too.

[morell]

The thread is about 2005 yeh? That means you cant pull incomparable stats between the players from previous years and pretend that they are relevant.

In 2005, Tredrea;

kicked more goals (65-61)
took more marks per game (9.2-8.0)
had a higher disposal efficiency (85.3-82.3)
took more marks inside 50 (3.9-2.7) - important one. Thats a whopping 30%.
had more ball gets inside 50 (2.1-1.9)
created more goal assists (18-14).

BTW, Tredrea played 2 more minutes than Pav in 2005 (120-118). So the per game stats are even more in Tredrea's favour.

There is no doubt Tredrea had a superior season to Pav in 05, as a forward. Maybe Pav on a HFF or bench, but Tredrea was the AA CHF for 2005.

[noddy]

Strange thread this one.

One day it's here the next day it's not.

Then re-emerges once again with half the posts made by some of our most knowledgeable posters made redundant.

The BCCI, ICC & CA has a lot to answer for. :(

[Powerstufff]

Strange thread this one.

One day it's here the next day it's not.

Then re-emerges once again with half the posts made by some of our most knowledgeable posters made redundant.

The BCCI, ICC & CA has a lot to answer for. :(There's apparently an old Punjabi phrase which goes "The mods do whatever they want". Translated into English we are told it is much less abrasive and means "not every person's contribution adds to the thread and if it goes then those replies quoting it go too".

[noddy]

There's apparently an old Punjabi phrase which goes "The mods do whatever they want". Translated into English it we are told it is much less abrasive and means "not every person's contribution adds to the thread and if it goes then those replies quoting it go too".


Thank you so very very much sahib as i am now much more enlightened to the strange & mystical world of moderators in limbo.

Please forgive for transgressing from topic.

[Toots Hibbert]

Strange thread this one.

One day it's here the next day it's not.

Then re-emerges once again with half the posts made by some of our most knowledgeable posters made redundant.

The BCCI, ICC & CA has a lot to answer for. :(
http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1850/dirtyharry2cg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[noddy]

http://img261.imageshack.us/img261/1850/dirtyharry2cg7.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

I changed it Toots

I had no choice as you do possess a very big gun.

[portentous]

DEEEEEEETEEEEEEEE, there are qualified practitioners that can help you with this obesession.


You are getting sleepy, very sleepy..........

[hereselmo1]

Provide evidence if you are implying Tredrea is better.
i am implying tredrea is better at all of these things
by definition one percenters are hard to measure, but in my opinion he is better in all of these areas
i have made my opinion clear and asked people what theirs is
what is yours?

[Macca19]

Provide evidence if you are implying Tredrea is better.

Who would rate better on shepherds?
Hard ball gets?

These two which have statistics again show Tredrea in front.

Using Pro-Stats.

Contested Possesions:
Tredrea 02-05: 97, 98, 90, 71
Pavlich 05-07: 76, 77, 78

1 Percenters:
Tredrea 02-05: 78, 60, 51, 61
Pavlich 05-07: 54, 59, 43

Tredrea miles ahead in contested possesions and comfortably ahead in 1 percenters as well.

[hereselmo1]

These two which have statistics again show Tredrea in front.

Using Pro-Stats.

Contested Possesions:
Tredrea 02-05: 97, 98, 90, 71
Pavlich 05-07: 76, 77, 78

1 Percenters:
Tredrea 02-05: 78, 60, 51, 61
Pavlich 05-07: 54, 59, 43

Tredrea miles ahead in contested possesions and comfortably ahead in 1 percenters as well.

thanks macca

[ash_78]

These two which have statistics again show Tredrea in front.

Using Pro-Stats.

Contested Possesions:
Tredrea 02-05: 97, 98, 90, 71
Pavlich 05-07: 76, 77, 78

1 Percenters:
Tredrea 02-05: 78, 60, 51, 61
Pavlich 05-07: 54, 59, 43

Tredrea miles ahead in contested possesions and comfortably ahead in 1 percenters as well.

I'm glad the stats back up what we already knew.

1 percenters aren't portrayed through a TV coverage 99 percent of the time - and the 1 percent of the time that the viewer is aware of the 1 percenters, it's usually because either the viewer is actively looking for them or a commentator points them out.

But when you're at the ground it's a different story. Most on this board who are backing Tredrea witnessed the shepherds, blocks, chase-downs, on-field leadership etc he produced at his peak, that those who watched on TV (giving them the benefit of the doubt that they actually ever watched any Port games) wouldn't have picked up.

All of that said, I'd still have Pav over Tredrea in my team, right here and now, given their respective ages and where they're at in their careers. And Pavlich would change his game anyway if he was at Port. (viz a viz J.Carr pre- and post- Freo move)