1996 Counterfactual

[dyertribe]

(E.G. The Port line up that won the 1996 SANFL flag would go virtually unchanged into the AFL 1997 season)96 Premiership side/list:

B: George Fiacchi ~ Roger Delaney ~ Darren Mead
HB: Paul Northeast ~ Brian Leys ~ Nigel Fiegert
C: Greg Anderson ~ Michael Wilson ~ Fabian Francis
HF: Tony Bamford ~ Darren Smith ~ Darryl Borlase
F: Phil McGuinness ~ Scott Hodges ~ Warren Tredrea
R: Shane Crothers ~ David Brown ~ Tim Ginever

IC: Rohan Smith ~ Bryan Bienke ~ Stephen Carter

Other: Peter Burgoyne, Byron Pickett, Darryl Poole, Gavin Wanganeen (assuming he still comes home concessions or not - whether it's a cash clearance or not).

Little bit to work with there, especially for the future.

The question posed on the main board was by a North Melbourne fan asking 'how many interstate clubs would've survived if they entered under our 1924/5 conditions?'

Got me thinking. What if it did have to be a complete transplant squadwise?No special draft picks, no pick of the rest of the SANFL - Dew, Lade, Francou, James, Eagleton, Steinberner - just the bulk of the 1996 threepeat boys.

For starters, Ando, Timmy G, Daisy, Batman and Robin, Smithy and Ghost probably don't survive the arduous preseason same as Scotty didn't in reality.

But on the flipside Pickett's on board from the start, how did he ever slip through the net?! Then there's Flash, Wilbur, Tredders, Meady, Peter and Wangas to provide a fair future, assuming the club naturally gets stronger through it's natural acumen in talent ID and development in future years - see the drafting of Chad and Nick Stevens immediately after the first year, although in reality the club would be looking at ladder position priority picks rather than middling ones.

Bottom line is, there's no way in hell the club would completely suck for a good 20 years like North did, surely.

Thoughts?

[Papa G]

Even if we did finish bottom, we could have been first in line to sign Des Headland;)

Team would have been competitive and as much as I like the look of that backline, tough and hard, it lacks some serious pace.

[Macca19]

I guess it depends where the other 20 squad members come from? I reckon Daisy would have made a decent crack of it. But who else? Our reserves guys? Not sure how well they would have gone taking the leap from SANFL ressies to AFL but heres some names that could have been involved:

Tony Malakellis, Matt Ashley, Richard Ambrose, Mark Clayton, Jason Dylan, Brett Higgins, Damien Lang, Simon Pedler, Jared Poulton, Damien Sheehan, Eugene Warrior, Greg Dempsey, Tom Carr, Paul Evans, Mick Spanagel, Alf Steed, Rocky Zappia.

Whilst some of those guys would have had a decent enough crack, I dont think there is the depth available for us to have done as well as we did. But you never know, I guess if we still had the chance to get the likes of Shane Bond, Lyle, Brown away from the Crows, and maybe another couple of Port players from other clubs may have come back considering it would have been with the old Port boys there (maybe Troy Bond and Tregenza) then who knows.

[Malibu#27]

Surely under 1924/5ish rules though we could have gone and poached whoever we wanted from throughout the AFL/SANFL/WAFL, without having to worry contracts and draft picks.... and likewise we wouldnt have been arse raped by the draft for the preceeding decade.

[RussellEbertHandball]

What about the kids that played U/17 and U/19 in 1996. They would have been considered for part of any original squad of 46 if we couldn't draft anyone.

Then again if Port knew these were the rules, Bucky and the boys would have found the best 14, 15 and 16 year olds and got them registered to play for Port U/17, paid the SANFL clubs the transfer fees and got them into the original squad to allow for the future development.

[Macca19]

Then your looking at Fiora, Broadbridge, Didak, Shane Holmes, Brian Harris (now Lake, might have been too young), Brosnan, Ackland and others.

[Ford Fairlane]

It's a strange comparsion to make - I mean 3 clubs were admitted to the VFL in 1925 - Hawthorn, Footscray and North - to make a 12 team competition, so there's a fair chance of a few wins first up against other strugglers. A metropolitan suburban competition that could generously be described as amateur at least in application hardly compares to a fully fledged national competition of full time professional athletes. And it was only 7 years after the end of WW1 which would've had a major impact on generational change across the league. Overall, you'd expect the spread of talent across teams wouldn't have been ridiculously lopsided.

Taking the question in isolation, that Port side would've struggled horribly. But looking at Carlton as an example, they've blown dog since about 2001 (a one off half decent year in 2004 aside) but you'd think they're well positioned now to start challenging for the upper part of the ladder, given the accumulation of talent over the past 6-7 years. So you'd think, using that as some sort of indicator that no, we wouldn't have sucked for 20 years and that the AFL's equalisation policies would've kicked in to our advantage.

Locally we could use the introduction of Centrals and Woodville to the SANFL as some sort of indicator. While Woodville never really got off the ground wedged as they were into an overpopulated narrow western metropolitan band of clubs, the more geographically advantaged Centrals played finals 7 years after their admission to the league. It took them longer to become an established force at league level, but they showed that getting up to a required level in a reasonable amount of time wasn't an insurmountable task.

[RussellEbertHandball]

And the more you think about this if Port had time to plan for an entry into the AFL with no draftee's don't you reckon we would have recruited other players from the other SANFL clubs in 1995, Lade, James and Francou, to start with, the guys we paid to stay out of the draft and several others as well as the AFL (eg get back S. Bond, Lyle etc at the end of 95), WAFL and VFL. Very academic question really.

[RussellEbertHandball]

What happened to Poole in the 1996 GF? Was he suspended or injured?

Gee it would have been great to watch Tim Ginever run around in the AFL for a couple of seasons. He would have struggled with the pace but he would have found the ball and been a great support leader to Wanganeen or leader in his own right.

All those guys who played between 1990 and 1996 who helped win all those flags and hoped to play for Port in the AFL but weren't made part of the original squad because we decided to go for youth and develop a team for the future have my highest respect. I hope the club acknowledge those guys whether they played U/17, U/19, reserves or in the league side for Port during those years. I know Bucky said the toughest thing he has done in footy is tell guys like Tim, Darren Smith, Rohan Smith, Northeast, Delany, Fiachi etc that they weren't in the original AFL squad.

If we ever get round to building a Hall of Fame building or section of the new building going up next to the Alan Scott building, I hope they have a seperate section for the 1990-96 players to acknowledge their great work in getting us ready for the big league.

[Macca19]

Pooley gave Stephen Rowe a fantastic jab in the face at a ball up in the last quarter of the PF. Despite Rowe trying his hardest to get him off they still gave him a week

[Ford Fairlane]

Even if we did finish bottom, we could have been first in line to sign Des Headland;)

Team would have been competitive and as much as I like the look of that backline, tough and hard, it lacks some serious pace.

Makes me wonder tho, if we did have say picks 1 and 5 in that draft, and we took Headland with 1, would we have taken Stevens or Carr with 5? or another player?

[Papa G]

It's a strange comparsion to make - I mean 3 clubs were admitted to the VFL in 1925 - Hawthorn, Footscray and North - to make a 12 team competition, so there's a fair chance of a few wins first up against other strugglers. A metropolitan suburban competition that could generously be described as amateur at least in application hardly compares to a fully fledged national competition of full time professional athletes. And it was only 7 years after the end of WW1 which would've had a major impact on generational change across the league. Overall, you'd expect the spread of talent across teams wouldn't have been ridiculously lopsided.



It was posted by a delusional Kangaroos supporter trying to justify their existance and why they are in the position they are in now.

[Powerstufff]

Great thread, wonderful mental pictures :thumbsu:

The question posed on the main board was by a North Melbourne fan asking 'how many interstate clubs would've survived if they entered under our 1924/5 conditions?'.....Thoughts?How many of the VFL clubs of 1989* would have survived entering the fledgling AFL if they had been required to:

pay $4 million over 10 years
confusingly leave a phantom copy of themselves in the VFL** to alienate fans
change their team song, emblem and colours
accept a disadvantageous father/son rule

* or make it 1997 if you wish
** OK, Geelong do sort of do this

[Macca19]

I reckon if we could have got in in 94 then a few of those oldies would have been given a shot. Delaney, Borlase, Ginever, Rohan, George.

[relapse]

The question posed on the main board was by a North Melbourne fan asking 'how many interstate clubs would've survived if they entered under our 1924/5 conditions?'

Got me thinking. What if it did have to be a complete transplant squadwise?No special draft picks, no pick of the rest of the SANFL - Dew, Lade, Francou, James, Eagleton, Steinberner - just the bulk of the 1996 threepeat boys.

For starters, Ando, Timmy G, Daisy, Batman and Robin, Smithy and Ghost probably don't survive the arduous preseason same as Scotty didn't in reality.

But on the flipside Pickett's on board from the start, how did he ever slip through the net?! Then there's Flash, Wilbur, Tredders, Meady, Peter and Wangas to provide a fair future, assuming the club naturally gets stronger through it's natural acumen in talent ID and development in future years - see the drafting of Chad and Nick Stevens immediately after the first year, although in reality the club would be looking at ladder position priority picks rather than middling ones.

Bottom line is, there's no way in hell the club would completely suck for a good 20 years like North did, surely.

Thoughts?

Comparing then to now is like apples and oranges. It must have been tough for those teams. Have a look how long it took for Centrals to become established and Woodville also for that matter. Its easier now with the draft etc than it would have been back then.

Surely under 1924/5ish rules though we could have gone and poached whoever we wanted from throughout the AFL/SANFL/WAFL, without having to worry contracts and draft picks.... and likewise we wouldnt have been arse raped by the draft for the preceeding decade.

The problem with that senario is that there are quite a few clubs that would have far more money than Port to poach those players.

I reckon if we could have got in in 94 then a few of those oldies would have been given a shot. Delaney, Borlase, Ginever, Rohan, George.

I would have loved to have seen Timmy Ginever in the AFL, seriously that guy is a true champion IMO its a shame that he never got a chance to play for Port at the highest level.

[hereselmo1]

IS timmie still kicking around, can we still draft him this year. He would get the ball out to our fleet of runners.

[blackdiamond]

Jason Dylan

He was on our list fairly early on as a rookie.

Also I think Troy Hull would have got a go, also where was the rest of the Cockatoo-Collins family at that stage?

[blackdiamond]

Pooley gave Stephen Rowe a fantastic jab in the face at a ball up in the last quarter of the PF. Despite Rowe trying his hardest to get him off they still gave him a week

He missed I tell you and his sister keeps on telling me the same.

[Powerstufff]

IS timmie still kicking around, can we still draft him this year. He would get the ball out to our fleet of runners.Saw him out watching the Juniors at a North Haven v Lockleys match a year or two ago. I reckon David Brown was with him though that seems odd even as I type it 'cause isn't he Victorian based now? If I see him again I'll make him an offer on your behalf.

[dyertribe]

He was on our list fairly early on as a rookie

Yeah, was taken with #1 in the Rookie Draft in 1997. Him and other notables that year:

1: DYLAN, Jason - Port Adelaide (Port Adelaide)
3: BASSETT, Nathan - Melbourne (Norwood)
5: MARSH, Ben - Adelaide (West Adelaide)
6: MICHAEL, Mal - Collingwood (Collingwood Reserves)
10: PORTER, Mark - Carlton (Coburg)
12: JOHNSON, Mark - Essendon (Calder Cannons)
18: WARD, Daniel - Melbourne (Fitzroy Reserves)
27: MOORCROFT, Gary - Essendon (Essendon Reserves)
30: BIENKE, Bryan - North Melbourne (Port Adelaide)
33: BISHOP, Matthew - Melbourne (Box Hill)
34: BATHERAS, Rupert - Collingwood (Collingwood Reserves)
48: ROBERTSON, Russell - Melbourne (Burnie/Melbourne Reserves)
78: MCDONALD, James - Melbourne (Old Xavierians)

Whoever was the recruiter/scout responsible for the Dees that year deserves a Knighthood. They also took Woewodin in the PSD. In the main draft they took Travis Johnstone, Troy Longmuir, Matthew Blake, Nathan D. Brown, Guy Rigoni - all bar Blake were serviceable at least.

[Macca19]

Dylan never really came on as expected and ended up going to the Eagles and got a few more games but generally more of the same. Its a pity cos he had quite a bit of talent and is one of the quickest players ive ever seen. Kicked 201 goals in 80 something reserves matches over a few years. Played 13 league games for the Maggies but just couldnt get a regular spot, despite often kicking 3 or 4 a week in the ressies.

[Ford Fairlane]

I remember hearing that Dylan had a framed photo of himself taking a speccy in a Magpies pre-season game against Freo hanging up at Alberton (I recall he had some office footy development job there).

[scotty13]

I we did have to enter using the PAFC squad from 1996, would we also (just like I think North received) get every player that had been drafted from Port to another club back at Port if the club wanted them.

Who can rattle off all the Port players that were in the AFL in 1996 that would have come back to Port if this was the 'system' in place. All I can think of right now is McLeod and Bucks (not including Wangas cause he came back anyway). Those two would have added a bit more to the side.

[Macca19]

At the time there was also Bradley, Troy Bond, Tregenza, Chalmers, Hynes i think, Cockatoo Collins x 3, Ramsay, Hull, Olsen (cant recall if he went over to Collingwood or not)

[scotty13]

Waterhouse aswell? or was he still at Port by then?

Would have been a great team me thinks being a true Port side to start off with.

[Macca19]

The Wakelins as well. Would have been a pretty decent team in the end

[RussellEbertHandball]

From AFL '96 book. Those in bold eventually came back.

Adelaide
Greg Anderson
Troy Bond
David Brown
Brett Chalmers
Scott Hodges
Andrew McLeod
Simon Tregenza

Brisbane - none

Carlton
Craig Bradley

Collingwood
Nathan Buckley

Essendon
Che Cockatoo-Collins
Gavin Wanganeen

Fitzroy
Jason Ramsey ??? Selected in 1995 PSD

Footscray none

Fremantle
David Hynes
Clive Waterhouse

Geelong none
Hawthorn none

Melbourne
David Cockatoo-Collins
Donald Cockatoo-Collins
Andrew Obst
Trent Ormond-Allen

North Melbourne none
Richmond none

St Kilda
Darryl Wakelin
Shane Wakelin

Sydney none

West Coast
Shane Bond
Brayden Lyle

[RussellEbertHandball]

At the time there was also Bradley, Troy Bond, Tregenza, Chalmers, Hynes i think, Cockatoo Collins x 3, Ramsay, Hull, Olsen (cant recall if he went over to Collingwood or not)

Troy Hull was pick 101 by Sydney in 1992 never played a league game.
Troy Olsen was pick 120 by Collingwood in 1992 and he never played a league game.

[Alberton_Magpie]

would have been a good team if they all came back...

[scotty13]

Man that would have been an awsome squad if they had all come back. Macca, Buckley, Bradley, Waterhouse, Wakelins, Bond and the Cocky's all in 1997, we would have made the finals that year rather than miss out on Percentage I rekon.

[Powerstufff]

I was going to ask about Brayden Lyle but see his name has now been listed. He went to west Coast in 1995. Did he play seniors with us, or at a more junior level?

[Ebert80]

I was going to ask about Brayden Lyle but see his name has now been listed. He went to west Coast in 1995. Did he play seniors with us, or at a more junior level?

Yep he certainly did play a bit for the Magpies before going over to the WCE. A bit in the centre and also in the back pocket i think.

[blackdiamond]

Troy Hull was pick 101 by Sydney in 1992 never played a league game.
Troy Olsen was pick 120 by Collingwood in 1992 and he never played a league game.

That being said though, none of them left Alberton to train/play with them after being drafted.

[PowerKat]

From AFL '96 book. Those in bold eventually came back.

<snip>



I'd love to a similar list from 1990, on top of our premiership team from that year. ;)

[hereselmo1]

B: Gavin Wanganeen ~ Darryl Wakelin ~ Shane Wakelin
HB: Andrew McLeod ~ Darren Mead~Shane Bond
C: Greg Anderson ~ Michael Wilson ~ Fabian Francis
HF: Peter Burgoyne ~ Warren Tredrea ~ Andrew Obst
F: Che Cockatoo-Collins ~ Scott Hodges ~ Clive Waterhouse
R: Brett Chalmers ~ Craig Bradley ~ Nathan Buckley,

Byron Pickett ~ Bryan Bienke ~ Stephen Carter, , David Brown, Simon Tregenza, Tim Ginever, Darryl Borlase, Darryl Poole, David Hynes, , Trent Ormond-Allen. Nigel Fiegert, Troy Bond, Brayden Lyle

Just a quick team made up of names that have been mentioned above
Looking pretty good i reckon
Imagine the run out of the backline with wangas, bond and mcleod whilst still having the three dour tall defenders
Ruck is probably the weak point
Pooly prob would have played more chf than tredders at that stage but it looks so much better with tredders there

[RussellEbertHandball]

I'd love to a similar list from 1990, on top of our premiership team from that year. ;)

Brisbane
Martin Leslie
** Note both Ben Harris and Mark Williams started the year at Brisbane but transfered back under the old 30 June rule.

Carlton
Craig Bradley

Essendon
Greg Anderson

Fitzroy
Roger Delaney

Geelong
Dwayne Russell

Melbourne
Danny Hughes
Andrew Obst

Got these names from an ABC Grandstand Footy Book 1996, that had a list per team of players who played at least 1 game between 1987 and 1995 and how many games they played in each year. I may have missed a player or two

But the 1990 flag side was stacked with guys who would play in the AFL either for the crows or another team or had previously played in the AFL (ie those underlined)

B Fiacchi Harris Rizonico
HB Abernethy Phillips Northeast
C Hutton S. Williams Tregenza
HF Foster D. Smith Mahney
F Hynes Hodges Wanganeen
R Johnson M. Williams Ginever
Int Settre Phelps

Out injured for the GF Rohan Smith David Brown

[Ford Fairlane]

Rizonico (Collingwood) and Foster (Carlton) were also recruited from the VFL.

[RussellEbertHandball]

Rizonico listed as played 17 games for collingwood but Foster isn't listed, so I assume he never played a senior game for the blues.

[Ford Fairlane]

Yeah I reckon Fozzy just played 2s for Carlton - too laid back. He was Phil Carman's brother-in-law IIRC.

[dyertribe]

Ruck is probably the weak point

Yeah, the ultimate tweener in Chalmers as #1 is cringeworthy.

Given that under the counterfactual or not, the club was replacing Fitzroy, a few brown paperbags might've headed Brisbane's way in lieu of picks or other equalisation-related benefits.

Otherwise, you'd have to prefer Pooley as stopgap. Same height as Chalmers, but at least he'd throw himself about.

[Asgardian]

Yeah I reckon Fozzy just played 2s for Carlton - too laid back. He was Phil Carman's brother-in-law IIRC.

Yep, Richard Foster was recruited from the Carlton seconds, and a damn good pick up he was

[PowerKat]

Brisbane
Martin Leslie
** Note both Ben Harris and Mark Williams started the year at Brisbane but transfered back under the old 30 June rule.

Carlton
Craig Bradley

Essendon
Greg Anderson

Fitzroy
Roger Delaney

Geelong
Dwayne Russell

Melbourne
Danny Hughes
Andrew Obst

Got these names from an ABC Grandstand Footy Book 1996, that had a list per team of players who played at least 1 game between 1987 and 1995 and how many games they played in each year. I may have missed a player or two

But the 1990 flag side was stacked with guys who would play in the AFL either for the crows or another team or had previously played in the AFL (ie those underlined)

B Fiacchi Harris Rizonico
HB Abernethy Phillips Northeast
C Hutton S. Williams Tregenza
HF Foster D. Smith Mahney
F Hynes Hodges Wanganeen
R Johnson M. Williams Ginever
Int Settre Phelps

Out injured for the GF Rohan Smith David Brown

Thanks REH. :thumbsu:

It would have been really something to see a side comprised mainly out of that lot hit the park in the national comp :(

[blackdiamond]

Does anybody have any of the team lists for when we played those trial matches against the VFL/AFL sides, even going back as far as the 1990 pre-season game against Geelong at Football Park?

Would be interesting to see the names in those games, plus the results.

[Macca19]

1995 Port v Fremantle:
Port Adelaide:
F: 20 Jason Dylan, 11 Scott Hodges, 10 Stephen Williams;
HF: 14 Spiro Malakellis, 28 Darren Smith, 25 Troy Olsen;
C: 29 Darren Forssman, 9 Anthony Darcy, 13 Rohan Smith;
HB: 32 Paul Northeast, 5 Julian Burton, 36 Stephen Carter;
B: 4 George Fiacchi, 33 Darren Mead, 7 Roger Delaney:
1R: 30 Darryl Poole, 1 Tim Ginever (captain), 22 Tony Malakellis;
Int: From - 34 Damian Angove, 23 Damien Ryan, 41 Clive Waterhouse, 16 Darryl Borlase, 3 Mark Wade, 15 Michael Wilson, 42 Bryan Beinke.

Fremantle: 1 Scott Edwards, 2 Scott Watters, 3 Brendan Krummel, 4
Andrew Wills, 5 Todd Ridley, 7 Ben Allan (captain), 10 Stephen
O'Reilly, 11 Dale Kickett, 14 Kingsley Hunter, 16 John Hutton, 17
Darren Capewell, 18 Craig Nettelbeck, 19 Gary Dhurrkay, 19 David Muir,
22 Travis Edmonds, 24 Matthew Burton, 25 Jason Norrish, 26 Todd
Menegola, 30 Tony Delaney, 31 Leigh Wardell-Johnson, 32 Peter Bell, 33
Craig Burrows, 34 Jeff White, 35 Chris Groom, 36 Quenton Leach, 37 Mark
Gale, 38 Anthony Jones, 42 Craig Callaghan.

IT was Jason Dylan, Sprio Malakellis, Anthony Darcy, Clive Waterhouse and Michael Wilsons first games for the club, whilst I think it may have been Darren Forrsmans only game for the club. The game for me was notable as seeing a young white haired player come on at half time on a back flank and just run and create and take Freo on.

FREMANTLE 2.1 7.3 10.6 11.10 (76)
PORT ADELAIDE 2.4 2.5 3.7 5.8 (38)
BEST - Fremantle: O'Reilly, Dhurrkay, Bell, Burton, White, Wills.
Port: Olsen, Poole, Borlase, T. Malakellis, Wade, Waterhouse.
SCORERS - Fremantle: Dhurrkay 3.0, Groom 2.2, Bell 2.1, Hunter 2.0,
Wardell-Johnson, White 1.0, Burrows, Wills, Norrish 0.1, rushed 0.4.
Port: Hodges 2.1, Ginever, Poole, D. Smith 1.0, Borlase 0.2, Olsen,
Waterhouse 0.1, rushed 0.3.
REPORTS - D. Mead (Port) by field umpire Tim Pfeiffer for allegedly
disputing a decision in the third quarter. D. Borlase (Port) by umpire
Pfeiffer for allegedly striking G. Dhurrkay in the last quarter.
INJURIES - Fremantle: T. Ridley (shoulder).
UMPIRES - Troy Burton, Tim Pfeiffer, Richard Williams.
CROWD - 22,366.

Love Meady getting reported for disputing an umpires decision! That rule must have been thrown out of the book.

[Macca19]

1994 Port v Essendon:

PORT ADELAIDE:
F: 35 May, 24 Tylor, 27 Olsen
HF: 9 Spalding, 28 D Smith, 29 Hull
C: 31 Wait, 6 Mckay, 34 Angove
HB: 32 Northeast, 36 Carter, 15 Wakelin
B: 17 Rizonico, 7 Delaney, 20 Grocke

R: 8 Chalmers 2 Ginever, 22 Malakellis
I: 3 Bartsch, 5 Burton, 10 Williams, 12 Gaffney, 33 Mead

The internal trial before the main game consisted of:
Black and white team: J. Baldissera, Fiacchi, Crombie, Rogers, Ramsay, Mahney, Francis, S. Baldissera, Steed, Cueller, Dickie, Ormond-Allen, Ryan, Sheehan, Fiegert, Foster, Brosnan, Herzick, Dylan, Dittmar, Vincent, Katsaras, Pedler.

Red team: Poole, McKenna, Day, Grgurovich, Tomney, C. Warrior,
Wilson, Callahan, Brennan, R. Smith, Kennedy, Voice, T. Burton, Tomeo,
Finkinson, Hastings, Davey, Prisk, Goold, Britos, Givvons, Bolzan.

PT ADELAIDE 5.4 8.6 14.10 17.17 (119)
ESSENDON 3.0 6.1 7.1 7.2 (44)
BEST Port: Angove, Williams, Malakellis, Mead, Olsen, Hull, Tylor, Chalmers.
Essendon: Smith, Cockatoo-Collins, Prior, Symons, Grenvold.
SCORERS - Port: Tylor 5.3, Olsen 3.4, Mead 2.0, Spalding 1.2, Williams, Angove 1.1, Malakellis, Bartsch, May, Ginever 1.0, Chalmers 0.2, Gaffney 0.1, Grocke 0.1, rushed 0.2.
Essendon: Mollard 3.0, Cransberg, Morgan, Symons, Cockatoo-Collins 1.0, Grenvold, Ridley 0.1.
UMPIRES K. Chambers, R. Williams.
CROWD 8024.

The Essendon side only had 4 Premiership players in the side, Harvey, Hills, Grenvold and Watson. 5 others pulled out at the last minute including Wanganeen.

[Toots Hibbert]

What's the source of your info Macca?

[Ford Fairlane]

Essendon were lucky we didn't throw our league team at them! :D

Some memorable names there ... and some that never went anywhere. That must've been just about Bartsch's only game for Port. Right up there with (in fact ahead of) Wes Fellowes and Shane Crothers as great ruck recruits ... I'd mention a guy called 'Pancho' Gonsalves who we cunningly beat Woodville to the signature of at the start of 1979, but that's just too obscure and cruel.

[blackdiamond]

Wes was a really good kick for goal very deep in the pocket, get him straight in front though and he was a complete disaster but I guess he was a ruckman. He did very well at Collingwood though, was best player one year I believe.

[Macca19]

Essendon were lucky we didn't throw our league team at them! :D

Some memorable names there ... and some that never went anywhere. That must've been just about Bartsch's only game for Port. Right up there with (in fact ahead of) Wes Fellowes and Shane Crothers as great ruck recruits ... I'd mention a guy called 'Pancho' Gonsalves who we cunningly beat Woodville to the signature of at the start of 1979, but that's just too obscure and cruel.

I think Bartsch ended up playing 11 or so games for Port. One of the great 'never was' players. Drafted by the Crows at the age of 19 or 20, didnt play a game there and then ended up with us and didnt last a season.

[Ford Fairlane]

The goal kicking part sounds like Leon Milde. But I think Leon had more desire.

I reckon Wes did win a Copeland, but for what he must've cost Port his efforts were mediocre. He had one memorable game for Port at something like AFL standard against the (WWT) Eagles. He joined same time as Garry Smallridge. Another bust who wound up at Norwood.

[Macca19]

Feb 1993: Port v Collingwood

COLLINGWOOD 13.12 90
PORT ADELAIDE 13.9 87
SCORERS - Collingwood: Houlihan 5.2, Starcevich 2.1, Barwick, Monkhorst, Rocca 1.2, M. Richardson, Shaw, Crosisca 1.0, Rowe 0.2, Watson 0.1.
Port: Tylor 6.3, Gaffney, R. Smith, D. Wakelin 1.1, Cockatoo-Collins, Ginever, McKay, P. Kemp 1.0, T. Bond, Fiacchi 0.1, rushed 0.1.
BEST - Collingwood: Houlihan, Shaw, Starcevich, Fraser, Rocca.
Port: Tylor, R. Smith, Northeast, Foster, Gaffney.
UMPIRES - Mark Westgarth, Tim Pfeiffer. CROWD - 22,253.

Couldnt find a full team list of who played the game. Someone might still have the Budget from that night?

As we know both clubs played in their traditional guernseys. Nathan Buckley was expected to play in a last hurrah before signing for Brisbane, but a couple of injuries meant he had to sit out, even though Nathan was keen to get out there.

Collingwood led at every change by 7, 11 and 9 points and Port charged home kicking the last three goals but ran out of time.

[Macca19]

May 1993: Port v Essendon

PORT ADELAIDE
F: McKay, Tylor, Troy Bond.
HF: R. Smith, D. Smith, Rizonico.
C: Angove, Williams, Cockatoo- Collins.
HB: Foster, Phillips, Northeast.
B: Lyle, Delaney, Mead.
1R: Chalmers, Borlase, Ginever.
Inter: Settre, Kemp, Burton, S. Bond, S. Wakelin.

Essendon
Harvey, Mercuri, Wanganeen, Hird, A. Daniher, Hills, Symons, Long, Kilpatrick, Doolan, Misiti, Fox, Allessio, Flood, Delaney, Watson, Ross, A. Bruns, O'Connor, Winkel, Oleranshaw, Calthorpe, Murrihy

Was Tim Watsons comeback game.

ESSENDON 3.2 6.6 10.12 10.16 (76)
PORT ADELAIDE 2.2 3.6 5.7 9.10 (64)
BEST - Essendon: Doolan, Misiti, Watson, Long, Grenvold, Manton.
Port: Cockatoo-Collins, Rizonico, Delaney, Borlase, Williams, S. Bond.
SCORERS - Essendon: Symons, Ross 3.1, Calthorpe 1.2, Misiti 1.1, Bewick, Watson 1.0, Mercuri, Franken 0.2, Long, Sporn, Doolan 0.1, rushed 0.4.
Port: Cockatoo-Collins 2.0, Williams 1.2, Kemp, Tylor 1.1, Bond, McKay, R. Smith, Borlase 1.0, Rizonico, Settre, D. Smith 0.1, rushed 0.3.
INJURIES - Essendon: Cransberg (knee). Port: S. Bond (bruised ribs).
UMPIRES - Greg Inge, Jeff Jeanes.
CROWD - 13,634.

Kevin Sheedy said that this game inspired him to draft Che.

[RussellEbertHandball]

That Essendon and Port game in May 1993was when both clubs had the bye. I think the 1994 game was pre season. IIRC somebodies nose got out of joint that Port and Essendon organised the 93 game when both had byes.

[Toots Hibbert]

You could not imagine it happening in todays football world. I've always had a soft spot for the Bombers as a result of Sheedy's willingness to help Port advance it's cause in getting to the AFL.

[Macca19]

Ill have a search for the Geelong game when im home from work tonight. I think that would be all of them.

[Natman]

Essendon were lucky we didn't throw our league team at them! :D

Some memorable names there ... and some that never went anywhere. That must've been just about Bartsch's only game for Port. Right up there with (in fact ahead of) Wes Fellowes and Shane Crothers as great ruck recruits ... I'd mention a guy called 'Pancho' Gonsalves who we cunningly beat Woodville to the signature of at the start of 1979, but that's just too obscure and cruel.

Ford - I have been trying to remember the details about the recruiting of Gonsalves - wasn't he recruited along with a few others from the old VFA - a 'marvelous' recruiting drive that one.

Would appreciate any more info that you have.

[Ford Fairlane]

Ford - I have been trying to remember the details about the recruiting of Gonsalves - wasn't he recruited along with a few others from the old VFA - a 'marvelous' recruiting drive that one.

Would appreciate any more info that you have.

Gonsalves came over and played a trial game for Woodville in the 1979 pre-season. I don't know how, but he played out of his skin and really impressed. Bob McLean snuck in under Woodville's guard and signed him up after that game. IIRC Chris Natt was looking for a clearance to Torrens, Jack Spry had given up the ghost, Murrie Batt had buggered off back to Collingwood for another crack (or had returned to country football) and Port were struggling for ruckmen. But somewhere between the ink hitting the paper and Pancho's return to SA to play with Port, all of the ability (as it was) drained out of his body, never to return. All I can remember of him is a tall, skinny, woolly headed ruckman who never seemed to get near the ball. Maybe he had an evil (good?) twin? The corollary of the ruck story was after being linked to a few high profile VFL ruckmen - Mick Nolan and Graeme Teasdale among them - Port recruited third string Norwood reserves ruckman Robert Sticks Dolan who went onto Port legend status by rucking single-handed against South's highly-regarded ruck combo of Peter Hynes and Andy Bennett in the 1979 GF (Natt had returned as Port refused to clear him, but was suspended for that game). Dolan backed it up with a premiership in 1980 against Norwood. Interestingly, just having a look back at John Wood's "Gentleman Jack", John Nicholls gave Dolan specialist ruck coaching in the months leading up to the GF. Nicholls, of course was the champion Carlton ruckman and Glenelg coach in the 1977 GF.

The others I can remember from the VFA recruiting drive were Peter 'Ocker' Stephens, a CHF from Geelong West who stuffed his knee fairly early on. When he recovered his CHF mobility was completely impaired and he became an ok reserves standard occasional ruckman. But too small for league (not that tall and light with it). I think he was at Port pre-79 but made a bit of a comeback attempt as a ruckman around that time.

Russell Jessop who was supposed to be an opportunist HFF came in, but couldn't score a goal when it mattered, after yet again impressing in trial games. He hung around the reserves team for a while, wound up at half-back IIRC, then slipped from sight with barely a whimper.

I think Port also recruited Tasmanian Haydn Smart around that time, who was playing reserves at CHF with Collingwood. I think he was unveiled after the June 30 deadline, but had signed ealier, but wasn't fit (bung knee or broken leg, something like that). He turned out to be a pretty handy cricketer... :o. I think he hung around for another year, but stuck to cricket after that.

[Macca19]

Port v Geelong 1990

Port Adelaide: Abernethy, Borlase, Greg Boyd, Russell Boyd,
David Brown, Crerar, Fiacchi, Foster, Ginever, Grimm, Hodges,
Hutton, Hynes, Johnston, Northeast, Phillips, Rizonico, Settre,
Darren Smith, Rohan Smith, Tregenza, Tylor, Stephen Williams,
Wanganeen.

Geelong: Ablett, Tim Bourke, Brown, Brownless, Bruns, David
Cameron, Gary Cameron, Couch, D'Arcy, Exell, Fletcher, Hamilton,
Steve Hocking, Gary Hocking, Kol, Keane, Lindner, Malakellis,
Morgan, Poole, Rogers, Stoneham, Troy, Welsby, Yeates.

GEELONG 3.4 12.8 15.14 22.18 (150)
PORT 2.5 3.8 10.10 14.14 (98)

BEST - GEELONG: Stoneham, S. Hocking, Couch, Ablett, Yeates, D. Cameron, Kol, Bruns,
Morgan.
PORT: D. Smith, Brown, Williams, Settre, Phillips, Crerar, Fiacchi.

GOALS - GEELONG: Ablett 5.1, D. Cameron 4.1, G. Cameron 2.1, Excell 1.4, Couch 1.2, Phillips 1.1, Stoneham 1.1, Bruns 1.0, Yeates 1.0, Lindner 1.0, Brown 1.0, Keane 1.0, G. Hocking 1.0, Fletcher 1.0, Brownless 0.2, Hamilton 0.1, Rogers 0.1, rushed 0.3.

PORT: Settre 2.5, D. Smith 2.1, Hynes 2.1, Hodges 2.1, Borlase 2.0, Willaims 1.1, Wanganeen 1.0, Hutton 1.0, Tregenza 1.0, Rizonico 0.2, rushed 0.3.
INJURIES - GEELONG: Bourke (concussion), Kol (knee), Troy (hamstring).
UMPIRES: Michael Abbott, Ross Castle.
CROWD: 27,743

[Rory]

Feb 1993: Port v Collingwood

Just out of interest, who wore what jumper in that game?

[Macca19]

As I said, both teams played in their traditional guernseys. Port wore its prison bars. Collingwood wore its white guernsey with black stripes.

[Rory]

Sorry, skipped over the second paragraph :o

[Natman]

Gonsalves came over and played a trial game for Woodville in the 1979 pre-season. I don't know how, but he played out of his skin and really impressed. Bob McLean snuck in under Woodville's guard and signed him up after that game. IIRC Chris Natt was looking for a clearance to Torrens, Jack Spry had given up the ghost, Murrie Batt had buggered off back to Collingwood for another crack (or had returned to country football) and Port were struggling for ruckmen. But somewhere between the ink hitting the paper and Pancho's return to SA to play with Port, all of the ability (as it was) drained out of his body, never to return. All I can remember of him is a tall, skinny, woolly headed ruckman who never seemed to get near the ball. Maybe he had an evil (good?) twin? The corollary of the ruck story was after being linked to a few high profile VFL ruckmen - Mick Nolan and Graeme Teasdale among them - Port recruited third string Norwood reserves ruckman Robert Sticks Dolan who went onto Port legend status by rucking single-handed against South's highly-regarded ruck combo of Peter Hynes and Andy Bennett in the 1979 GF (Natt had returned as Port refused to clear him, but was suspended for that game). Dolan backed it up with a premiership in 1980 against Norwood. Interestingly, just having a look back at John Wood's "Gentleman Jack", John Nicholls gave Dolan specialist ruck coaching in the months leading up to the GF. Nicholls, of course was the champion Carlton ruckman and Glenelg coach in the 1977 GF.

The others I can remember from the VFA recruiting drive were Peter 'Ocker' Stephens, a CHF from Geelong West who stuffed his knee fairly early on. When he recovered his CHF mobility was completely impaired and he became an ok reserves standard occasional ruckman. But too small for league (not that tall and light with it). I think he was at Port pre-79 but made a bit of a comeback attempt as a ruckman around that time.

Russell Jessop who was supposed to be an opportunist HFF came in, but couldn't score a goal when it mattered, after yet again impressing in trial games. He hung around the reserves team for a while, wound up at half-back IIRC, then slipped from sight with barely a whimper.

I think Port also recruited Tasmanian Haydn Smart around that time, who was playing reserves at CHF with Collingwood. I think he was unveiled after the June 30 deadline, but had signed ealier, but wasn't fit (bung knee or broken leg, something like that). He turned out to be a pretty handy cricketer... :o. I think he hung around for another year, but stuck to cricket after that.

Thanks Ford - all of that stuff brings back memories and goes to make up the rich history of the club and the things we went through in good times (many) and bad (few).

With respect to Gonsalves, IIRC there were 3 or 4 smaller type VFA players that came in a package - some names you mentioned were in that group, but a couple of other escape me.

[Ford Fairlane]

I have a feeling there was a group of three - Gonsalves, Jessop and one other(not Stephens who arrived in 76, somewhere around there). I'll have to find an old Footy Budget and look at names.

[Ford Fairlane]

As I said, both teams played in their traditional guernseys. Port wore its prison bars. Collingwood wore its white guernsey with black stripes.

And you could fairly easily tell them apart. I think we wore hooped socks.

[dyertribe]

And you could fairly easily tell them apart. I think we wore hooped socks.

Actually, that was Collingwood. You were actually barracking for Lethal's men that day.

[Ford Fairlane]

Actually, that was Collingwood. You were actually barracking for Lethal's men that day.

Oops. Oh well at least 'we' won. ;)

[Macca19]

It shows we had a pretty decent side in 93 in my opinion that we could push the eventual Premiers and Collingwood who just lucked out of the finals pretty far, even though they were missing a few key players.

To me 93 was a flag that got away. We finished 2nd, had lost only 1 game to Round 14, then had our traditional shit patch and we beat the Eagles twice in the minor round.

We spanked Glenelg in the final, the match was over at 1/4 time after Scotty kicked 6 goals in the first quarter (9 for the match) and we led by 7 goals.. The injuries kicked in though, we missed Scotty (crows), and Che (injury), whilst Burton, Phillips and Lyle were nursing injuries for the other two games. We were spanked by the Eagles and then we disspaointingly lost to Norwood in the Prelim. I feel if we got over Norwood we would have avenged the 2nd semi loss in the big one, as we did the following year.