Next NSW Scapegoat?

[Bomber Bears]

So the theme of these boards amongst the rabid victorians and some others is the need to have a go at the NSW players. I mean when clark was first picked everyone was dissapointed he'll be rubbish. He's been just about our best bowler since then.
Clarke has constantly been ripped into here, even this summer with his two centuries and various other high scores, he's been excellent the last two summers apart from the syndey test vs the indians.
Jaques of course was very unpopular round here, has to be rogers was all we heard he gets in the side and bang couple of centuries and a few 50's later he's entrenched.
Lee is the favourite of course, people still bagging his poor form from his early career despite him having bowled very well post ashes 2005 (average of 25.48 in this period), apart from a poor start to the series against england last season. Still people just have a go at him.
People on here still have a go at past NSWelshman as well, whether its mark waugh (scorer of 20 test centuries and about 18 ODI centuries) or beven (one of the greats of one day cricket)

So who will it be next. The man with massive boots to fill, Brad Haddin? Macgill if he ever gets back? Bracken in the ODI's Bollinger if he gets his chance? Katich if he is ever given another test. Or someone else, the youngsters like hughes or Henriques. Take your Pick

[Mr P@H]

Bolly

[Gunnar Longshanks]

So the theme of these boards amongst the rabid victorians and some others is the need to have a go at the NSW players. I mean when clark was first picked everyone was dissapointed he'll be rubbish. He's been just about our best bowler since then.
Clarke has constantly been ripped into here, even this summer with his two centuries and various other high scores, he's been excellent the last two summers apart from the syndey test vs the indians.
Jaques of course was very unpopular round here, has to be rogers was all we heard he gets in the side and bang couple of centuries and a few 50's later he's entrenched.
Lee is the favourite of course, people still bagging his poor form from his early career despite him having bowled very well post ashes 2005 (average of 25.48 in this period), apart from a poor start to the series against england last season. Still people just have a go at him.
People on here still have a go at past NSWelshman as well, whether its mark waugh (scorer of 20 test centuries and about 18 ODI centuries) or beven (one of the greats of one day cricket)

So who will it be next. The man with massive boots to fill, Brad Haddin? Macgill if he ever gets back? Bracken in the ODI's Bollinger if he gets his chance? Katich if he is ever given another test. Or someone else, the youngsters like hughes or Henriques. Take your PickSome of this is an absolute fantasy.

Stuart Clark's selection took everyone by surprise. No-one expected him to deliver, and that was fair enough, seeing as he hadn't done a whole lot at FC level. It was an unpopular selection, but I reckon this board is 100% behind him now, at Test level anyway.

Michael Clarke has been bagged by some because his FC numbers didn't really warrant Test selection. That's true, but I think only the lunatic fringe now considers him unworthy of national honours.

How was Jaques "unpopular"? Plenty of non-NSW people have been pushing his barrow over the past two years.

Lee was bagged because he was ordinary in Tests for a long time. I don't think anyone would criticise his recent returns.

You just sound like a NSW resident with a victim complex. Some of these guys were entirely legitimate targets for criticism/conjecture. When they've delivered, the doubters have been silenced.

You are presenting yourself as a shrill muppet desperate for validation and are consequently begging for NSW players to be criticised.

Stop sooking.

Do you want people to lay off emerging and/or returning players just because they're from NSW?

[DeadlyAkkuret]

When they've delivered, the doubters have been silenced.



I agree that it's a bit of a sooky-lala thread, but you're wrong with this quote.

Lee, Clarke and Jaques have all delivered this summer, but still cop a lot of critisism, and if you haven't noticed that then I'm not sure where you've been. It's a pretty common past-time for some people on this board, to pick a NSW player and bag him constantly, usually when it's not warranted.

As for the new NSW player on the test scene, Haddin, I don't think he'll recieve too much flack. He seems to quite popular with everyone, except for those who feel that Ronchi should have got the nod.

[Thewlis Dish]

Rogers was the in-form bastman in domestic cricket when Langer retired, and Jaques got plenty of public support before that as the next big thing.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Lee, Clarke and Jaques have all delivered this summer, but still cop a lot of critisism, and if you haven't noticed that then I'm not sure where you've been.

Yes they do, but usually by people who wouldn't have a clue.

[Smokey_22]

NSW have produced the best cricketers.

44 sheffield shield/pura cups since 1895.

Says it all really. Tall poppies.

[saj_21]

I picked haddin only becuase he is next in line to play for Australia, bolly is still a bit away from been picked and the others have already played for Aus and have been bagged enogh already.

[Bomber Bears]

more of a piss take than a sooky lala, as i personally dont care cos i know we've produced the best of cricketers. But when you see the generally wanky element going on on here about blue cap just means a baggy green cap etc etc DESPITE the fact that our players continue to play very very well for australia and consistently contribute (especially of late) you get a little bit miffed eventually.

NSW just has to keep on rolling out the great players tho i guess.

[High Ryder]

Mods can you delete this pointless thread?

[Scotland]

more of a piss take than a sooky lala, as i personally dont care cos i know we've produced the best of cricketers. But when you see the generally wanky element going on on here about blue cap just means a baggy green cap etc etc DESPITE the fact that our players continue to play very very well for australia and consistently contribute (especially of late) you get a little bit miffed eventually.

NSW just has to keep on rolling out the great players tho i guess.

:rolleyes:

There is a difference between discussing the merits of a player's selection for Australia and their international performances.

For example, not many are suggesting that Michael Clarke should be dropped from the current test side. Was he the most deserving candidate when he was first selected in the side? Questionable. Was he the most deserving candidate when he was recalled for the 2006/7 Ashes? Very questionable.

Players who receive perceived preferential treatment are always going to be marked harder, NSW or otherwise. Damien Martyn made a ton in South Africa after his recall. Try telling the Brad Hodge fan club that 'hey, Marto made a 100, so the selectors got it right'. Andrew Symonds has been given a few chances to find his feet in test cricket, and only now showing that he can be a valuable member of the side. Plenty have called for him to be out of the test side.

Gunnar was right, this is a sooky-la-la thread.

[Jaymin]

Mods can you delete this pointless thread?

Why? Because it doesn't involve Victoria?

If Bollinger has a solid start to next season i can see him getting a Test cap at some stage, especially with Tait now out of action.

From all the critics he had at the start of the season he has certainly proved them wrong. Not looking at anyone in particular Mr Poh.

[redragger]

more of a piss take than a sooky lala, as i personally dont care cos i know we've produced the best of cricketers. But when you see the generally wanky element going on on here about blue cap just means a baggy green cap etc etc DESPITE the fact that our players continue to play very very well for australia and consistently contribute (especially of late) you get a little bit miffed eventually.

NSW just has to keep on rolling out the great players tho i guess.

I think thats the point mate. NSW players invariably get the chance to play for Australia ahead other more credentialed cricketers from other states. Granted, they invariably play well, but who hasn't performed well for Australia in the last 10 years?

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Michael Clarke's FC avg. in the 30s when he was picked for Australia? You think a promising youngster from say Vic, Tas would get picked for Australia in the same climate?

Another example. Brad Haddin is currently playing in the One Day team as a batsman only. His ODD average is 33. David Hussey, same age but can bowl as well has an ODD average of 41. Can you see where the rancour from Victorians comes from?

Simon Katich was a great state player for WA who made a hundred in a Shield final. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seemed as if he only got a real look in at Test level once he transferred to NSW.

The entire situation isn't helped when you have Mark Taylor in particular raving on throughout Channel 9's coverage about how good NSW is. When Michael Clarke dropped that lolly pop catch at first slip in Perth, Mark Taylor proclaimed that it was an extremely difficult catch and that Gilchrist should have gone for it.

You need to stop looking through rose coloured glasses and understand how other people/states see the game.

[Jaymin]

but who hasn't performed well for Australia in the last 10 years?

Brad Hodge. Hence he was dropped.

[redragger]

Never said I agreed with Victorians who complain about selection policy, just thought I'd site examples for you guys to understand why there are complaints.

[Adelaide Hawk]

:rolleyes:

There is a difference between discussing the merits of a player's selection for Australia and their international performances.

For example, not many are suggesting that Michael Clarke should be dropped from the current test side. Was he the most deserving candidate when he was first selected in the side? Questionable. Was he the most deserving candidate when he was recalled for the 2006/7 Ashes? Very questionable.

Players who receive perceived preferential treatment are always going to be marked harder, NSW or otherwise. Damien Martyn made a ton in South Africa after his recall. Try telling the Brad Hodge fan club that 'hey, Marto made a 100, so the selectors got it right'. Andrew Symonds has been given a few chances to find his feet in test cricket, and only now showing that he can be a valuable member of the side. Plenty have called for him to be out of the test side.

Gunnar was right, this is a sooky-la-la thread.

Yep, I am struggling to think of players (especially NSW) who didn't deserve to be selected. There's been one or two over the years I personally didn't consider good enough for Test Cricket, but that doesn't make me right and generally the selectors get it spot on.

People need to be reminded there are only 12 spots in the team. Selectors have their credibility on the lne as well. They would be hell bent on playing who they consider to be the best 12 players in Australia, they wouldn't give a toss which state he comes from.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

I agree that it's a bit of a sooky-lala thread, but you're wrong with this quote.

Lee, Clarke and Jaques have all delivered this summer, but still cop a lot of critisism, and if you haven't noticed that then I'm not sure where you've been. It's a pretty common past-time for some people on this board, to pick a NSW player and bag him constantly, usually when it's not warranted.
Maybe among a tiny lunatic fringe. It's just tools trying to be controversial and there just happen to be a lot of NSW players for these tools to have a crack at.

Big deal.

I don't think there's any real doubt that Jaques, Lee and Clarke deserve to be playing for Australia. Has anyone made a serious suggestion to the contrary?

I reckon most players in the XI have been unjustifiably bagged at one stage or another. That's how it goes.

Plenty of people were sceptical of Symonds' Test bona fides, myself included. Were those people acting out of anti-Queensland bias? Or were they just scrutinising a guy who was yet to cement his spot?

It's the same deal with the NSW players who are working to cement a spot.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

Yep, I am struggling to think of players (especially NSW) who didn't deserve to be selected. There's been one or two over the years I personally didn't consider good enough for Test Cricket, but that doesn't make me right and generally the selectors get it spot on.
I reckon the biggest bungle in recent times was recalling Damien Martyn for the tour to South Africa.

He had done bugger-all between being dropped and getting recalled, and Hodge had made a double-century in the interim.

Martyn then bailed halfway through an Ashes series.

The selectors should have left him out.

[Bomberland06]

Speaking of the wonderful state of NSW, any chance of the first game of the Tri Series being completed on Friday?

[thepower]

there r always players who are undeserved. i dont know how clarke got in the side originally. his figures werent great but maybe the selectors decided to go with some youth and there he was.

gavin robertson's another one. steve waugh even admitted they were mates and it helped him get it.

haddin is a popular player and i hope he dominates as gilly did.

im more perplexed as to why foxsports love nsw cricket so much. or in fact every nsw team. certainly that would help put pressure on selectors of any sport to look at the baggy light blue more?

Rixon has a theory about players that may explain, to a certain extent, Katich's exile from the national team and the treatment he has received.

He says some players have a demeanour - an aura - that ensures they get greater opportunities than others.

He believes Andrew Symonds is a case in point.

Katich, according to Rixon, did not have that presence when he was playing Test cricket.

"When he was playing for Australia, he was always going to be the easy one to drop unless he did something out of the box," Rixon said.

"He just didn't have the same sort of demeanour as others, like a Symonds for instance, who they stuck with and continued to stick with until he started producing.

bollinger may get a gig soon. tait out, hilf on the outer it seems. circumstance has a lot to do with things.

[Gunnar Longshanks]

there r always players who are undeserved. i dont know how clarke got in the side originally. his figures werent great but maybe the selectors decided to go with some youth and there he was.
Right time, right place.

Clarke has been in the ODI side for 18 months and had performed well. He was averaging about 40 at the time.

Boof got injured in India and Clarke was still with the team. It made sense to blood him rather than fly in another player for 1-2 Tests.

Clarke scored a century on debut and then another in his first Test in Australia. It was hard to drop him after that.

His youth and good timing got him an opportunity. But he played two big innings early on, and that ensured that he was never going to be too far outside the frame.

[Adelaide Hawk]

there r always players who are undeserved

This may be splitting hairs a little but I don't believe there has ever been a baggy green awarded to a player who was undeserving of it.

You may argue that at times there may have been players a little more fortunate than others, but each individual player would have had to have got runs on the board or taken bundles of wickets to get in.

Two players I can think of who didn't really serve an apprenticeship were Ian Healy and Shane Warne, and they turned out okay :)

[Gunnar Longshanks]

This may be splitting hairs a little but I don't believe there has ever been a baggy green awarded to a player who was undeserving of it.Scott Muller?

[Cooldude]

This may be splitting hairs a little but I don't believe there has ever been a baggy green awarded to a player who was undeserving of it.


Johnny Watkins, Gavin Robertson

Watkins had like 10 wickets from 5 first class games and he got picked for some reason, and proceeded to bowl leg side full tosses so wide that they endangered the square leg umpire

Gav Robertson just got picked coz he's Steve Waugh's mate

[Adelaide Hawk]

Johnny Watkins, Gavin Robertson

Watkins had like 10 wickets from 5 first class games and he got picked for some reason, and proceeded to bowl leg side full tosses so wide that they endangered the square leg umpire

Gav Robertson just got picked coz he's Steve Waugh's mate

Watkins was 1972, I was talking a little more contemporary.

It you recall, Robertson was brought into the side at a time when Greg Matthews was suspended after an incident in a Perth nightclub. He took three bags of 5 wickets in a row which was outstanding for a spinner at the time. Like some others, Robertson was helped by good timing, but he did deserve his selection based on performance.

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

[QUOTE=Gunnar Longshanks;10012031]Some of this is an absolute fantasy.

Stuart Clark's selection took everyone by surprise. No-one expected him to deliver, and that was fair enough, seeing as he hadn't done a whole lot at FC level. It was an unpopular selection, but I reckon this board is 100% behind him now, at Test level anyway.

Michael Clarke has been bagged by some because his FC numbers didn't really warrant Test selection. That's true, but I think only the lunatic fringe now considers him unworthy of national honours.
[QUOTE]


Some of your finest work here Gunnar.
:D :D :D

This is the reason why the majority of people with an opinion on cricket are nuffs nuffs.

The selectors job is to chose players on MERIT and whether they believe the player in question has the CAPACITY (this may not have been reached at FC level) to perform in the future at higher levels of the game.

Now Gunnar, read carefully and slowly, stats do not give an impression of both these criteria, they merely touch the surface of the water.

For example, a player may start slowly in their cricket year but improve rapidly, total average stats are unlikely to show this due to the fact that the slow start can influence an average even years after pronounced form slump has taken part.

Sometimes, people who ACTUALLY KNOW something about the game have to make a judgement on a player based on years of experience and the ability to spot a "player" so to speak. The term these people are given Gunnar are "Selectors".

If we had to rely on stats to pick a team, we wouldnt need selectors, we'd just load up cricinfo and punch in the numbers and away we go.

On the issue of Michael Clarke, his stats might not have reached the level of his more EXPERIENCED peers but strokeplay and footwork (especially to spinners) is what accelerated his position into the team. I had people telling me in mid to late 2002 that Michael Clarke would be an Australian player in the near future, this was despite a statistically "poor" average relative to other players.

Now these people actually know cricket and dont rely on stats, which can be maniuplated quite easily to try and prove or justify a point (something you know a lot about).

[LIONS then DAYLIGHT]

I reckon the biggest bungle in recent times was recalling Damien Martyn for the tour to South Africa.

He had done bugger-all between being dropped and getting recalled, and Hodge had made a double-century in the interim.

Martyn then bailed halfway through an Ashes series.

The selectors should have left him out.

Maybe he was recalled because, i believe quite rightly, there were reservations about Hodge's ability to play on decks with movement and bounce.

Once again, the selectors are making a judgement based on their knowledge and instinct, not on computer stats looked up on cricinfo.

As it turns out Martyn won a match for us in South Africa before bowing out gracefully when the Ashes was all but over.

[Adelaide Hawk]

Scott Muller?

And there I was thinking this was a thread about NSW cricketers ... silly me.

[likka]

As it turns out Martyn won a match for us in South Africa before bowing out gracefully when the Ashes was all but over.

Gracefully? He cut and run to Alan Jones joint in northern NSW... didn't even have the guts to call his captain or team mates. Gutless and cowardly act.

[redragger]

[quote=Adelaide Hawk;10017377]This may be splitting hairs a little but I don't believe there has ever been a baggy green awarded to a player who was undeserving of it.

Shaun Young anyone? Fa rk me dead, how he played a test has got me mystified.

Phil Emery was never Australia's second best keeper yet somehow he got picked for a couple of tests.

[davey_magik]

I agree that it's a bit of a sooky-lala thread, but you're wrong with this quote.

Lee, Clarke and Jaques have all delivered this summer, but still cop a lot of critisism, and if you haven't noticed that then I'm not sure where you've been. It's a pretty common past-time for some people on this board, to pick a NSW player and bag him constantly, usually when it's not warranted.

As for the new NSW player on the test scene, Haddin, I don't think he'll recieve too much flack. He seems to quite popular with everyone, except for those who feel that Ronchi should have got the nod.

Who is criticising Jaques and Lee? I haven't seen any ill-will towards them whatsoever this summer, and I was Lee's biggest critic in the past but he's been fantastic.
Clarke on the other hand, well I know all about that :D.

[JUBJUB]

Step forward Mr Haddin and collect your award :p