Phil Smyth as Port assistant coach [Archive]

Porthos

6 Feb 2008, 07:33

You do like this topic. It's almost as if you know something.;) Don't Choco and Phil share ideas over a back fence or coffees already?I know nuzzink!

Here's my imagined time line.

* Phil Smyth declares he needs a break from basketball, turning down the <generic doomed NBL franchise> offer.
* Choco quietly invites Phil to Port training for a friendly chat concerning his future.
* Around early mid-season, Phil Smyth sits in the coaching box for a week, and Choco writes it off as asking Phil for some advice on tactical decisions on the day, someone was off sick or similar.
* Phil signs on to do some part-time coaching with the club as a match-day advisor.
* He's in the box through finals, and in every press conference Choco is talking up his advice. Its obvious to anyone at this point that Smyth has the match day assistant role sewn up.
* Port win the premiership.

gee I'm bored

Ford Fairlane

6 Feb 2008, 07:37

Choco does love his zones as does Phil. And as an assistant coach you can be the player's best friend, and Phil has always been popular among his playing group.

Toots Hibbert

6 Feb 2008, 08:25

.....* Around early mid-season, Phil Smyth sits in the coaching box for a week, and Choco writes it off as asking Phil for some advice on tactical decisions on the day, someone was off sick or similar......
Nit picking I know but I think you meant "passes it off". :)

I'd hate a thought provoking piece to be spoilt by a momentary lapse. :D *

Just on the zones mentioned by Ford, when we're going defensive instead of "zoning off" (I think that's the term) I'd like to see us employ a half court press. We are so much more effective when we are pressuring the opposition into turnovers rather than sitting back and waiting for them to mount an attack.

* I've still got some catching up to do after the Sal/ Thomas debacle but I can just see you rounding the bend ahead now.

Powerstufff

6 Feb 2008, 09:13

Thoughts?Proven top level sporting coach. Good personal relationship with Choco. He and Choco are neighbours so would cut down on petrol. Last one's the clincher, sign him up.

Troy Wingate

6 Feb 2008, 10:24

Footy and basketball do have alot more similarities than people think (the biggest one being the zone defense) and Phil could have some sought of role within the club.

RangaInTeal

6 Feb 2008, 11:43

2008
Williams - Senior Coach
Cripps - Forward line coach
Kingsley - Midfield Coach
Primus - Ruck Coach
Smyth - Defence Coach
Comerford - Fitness coach

Compared to 2004
Williams - Senior Coach
Clarkson - Forward line coach
Morris - Midfield Coach
Pitman - Ruck Coach
Bailey - Defence Coach
??? - Fitness coach

Toots Hibbert

6 Feb 2008, 12:33

Alistair Clarkson was our forwards coach that year wasn't he?

Phil Walsh was he midfield coach?

What was Geoff Morris, liaising with the SANFL?

Troy Wingate

6 Feb 2008, 12:36

And look at the similarities between Bailey and Smyth

http://www.icmi.com.au/images/ACTIVITY-340.jpg
http://mm.afl.com.au/Portals/0/images/AFL/Melbourne/Dean-Bailey-Exclusive-S.jpg

Split at birth???

Toots Hibbert

8 Feb 2008, 11:22

Nice pickup Troy.

I noticed on ABC news the other night that Smyth and Mal Hemmerling had left open the possibility of him reapplying for the 36ers job. Smyth planned to take a week off after the season to decide whether he would do this. The process would involve the 6ers looking selecting the best from all applicants.

High Voltage

9 Feb 2008, 20:42

Good idea, as long as we don't get too cute and forget it's Aussie Rules Football.

Apart from the "getting the best out of elite athletes in a team sport" aspects, basketball thoughts could be injected into PAFC could include:
- strategies on boxing out your opponent on rebounds similar to getting position at ball-ups, throw-ins and at key forward contested marks.
- setting screens to free up open baskets similar to getting an open shot on goal within 50m scoring range against a flood/zone defence.

I would have thought that these would already have been incorporated in AFL, so not sure the benefit of getting a basketball coach into the equation for this sort of input.

Maybe just "getting the best out of elite athletes in a team sport" is what is most important.

BWST

10 Feb 2008, 23:33

If this is true, our game is changing for the worse :(

The reason i loved Aussie Rules, is because i hated Basketball.

No disrespect to Phil, but if Port are trying to incorporate BB tactics into their game, i will watch reruns of Timmy Evans leading and kicking goals.......Greg Phillips marshaling the backlines and Russell Ebo Ebert tearing up the park.

Leave our game for what it is. Toughness will always win me over, fancy tactics be best left for Basketball.

And my daughter has played State Country BB, so thats saying something.

Ford Fairlane

16 May 2008, 20:13

Getting closer, Porthos. Reported on 7 news today he met with Choco to discuss unravelling Clarko's zone tactics.

*PAF

16 May 2008, 20:18

Getting closer, Porthos. Reported on 7 news today he met with Choco to discuss unravelling Clarko's zone tactics.
Clarko's tactics come from soccer, not sure a Basketball coach is the way to go. At least not until we are allowed to have 18 on the bench.

Porthos

16 May 2008, 20:25

It is as inevitable as Freo losing an important game. You don't know exactly when its going to happen, but you know it will.

Ford Fairlane

16 May 2008, 20:49

Clarko's tactics come from soccer, not sure a Basketball coach is the way to go. At least not until we are allowed to have 18 on the bench.

Ross Aloisi (I think) was also consulted by Ch 7 for his thoughts. He was given the not so impressive prop of one of those table top soccer games to show how it worked. Lost something in translation.

*PAF

16 May 2008, 20:54

Ross Aloisi (I think) was also consulted by Ch 7 for his thoughts. He was given the not so impressive prop of one of those table top soccer games to show how it worked. Lost something in translation.
Hehe, he bet go high tech and buy a playstation if he wants to help Choco. :D

On another note, Clarkson did say recently that he had set up a link to "exchange" ideas and methodologies with one of the Premier League clubs and that the English were impressed with our sports science. Not sure which club atm.

PowerKat

16 May 2008, 20:57

It is as inevitable as Freo losing an important game. You don't know exactly when its going to happen, but you know it will.

Yeah - it appears highly likely and a good pick up by you.

I thought of this thread when Phil 'interviewed' Choco on tv in the lead up to the Essendon game.

dreamkillers

16 May 2008, 22:37

Did a computer geek write today's script.............:p

hereselmo1

17 May 2008, 10:00

I think it is a good idea. One of the key aspects of being a good assistant coach is problem solving, phil smyth would be invaluable in his ability to think outside the square and come up with new tactics to counter the ever changing afl tactics.

If i can quote Einstein without seeming like too much of a tosser, he said that "you cant solve a problem using the same level of thinking that created the poblem".

Anyway i think that one area that Phil could help us with and possibly already has as it has seemd better the last few weeks is icing the clock. As i have said before the aim should be to take up virtually all of the time on the clock whilst still putting yourself in a position to score right at the death. This is done very well in basketball.

PAFC04

17 May 2008, 14:22

FlyingCrow

17 May 2008, 14:55

A move from Basketball to Footy worked for Brogan and Tippett...

Be interesting, gven the high level of tactics and set plays in Basketball. If you break it down to pure ball movement, moving a basketball up and down a court is not much different to moving a footy around a football oval. He may come up with a fresh approach.

Predator.

17 May 2008, 15:06

??? - Fitness coachAndrew Russell

King Elvis

17 May 2008, 17:00

Would be a worthwhile experiment.

Smyth might not be a football expert; but he is a person who has excelled in his field; he'd have something to offer.

*PAF

17 May 2008, 17:55

I think that Phil Smyth will be a good inclusion to the coaches bench.

From the outside looking in, I see Phil as a larikin who has the smarts to bring a different aspect to our game.

What aspect, I dont know, I just can't to seem to put my finger on it.

... At least not until we are allowed to have 18 on the bench.
Perhaps he can ask the AFL to allow 18 on the interchange bench, make the field smaller or reduce the time we play for.
We played well but there is no way could we can keep up with the full court press for the whole game. Too big a field, too few on the interchange bench and too long a game.

PowerKat

9 Jul 2008, 01:33

Interesting?

It's time for thinking change (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/sport/afl/story/0,26547,23979027-5014664,00.html)

PHIL Smyth, the championship-winning basketball coach, has much time on his hands.

It is a telling sign of where Australian basketball's NBL is today - with the league's financial insecurities forcing foundation clubs to close down - that one of Australia's most experienced and accomplished coaches is idle in his chosen sport.

But the Adelaide-based Smyth is not marking time in others.

Smyth, who has spent this winter at Crows and Power training sessions and learning the AFL media craft on radio, is opening a door to Australian football.

But which room will he enter in the AFL's big house?

Smyth could resurrect the role Australian hockey legend Ric Charlesworth tried to establish at Fremantle. As a mentor with experiences on the world stage, Charlesworth was - shortly after guiding the Hockeyroos to successive Olympic gold medals in Sydney in 2000 - to have been the Dockers' telling edge.

Sadly - more so for the Dockers than Charlesworth, whose coaching credentials have increased in world cricket and hockey - the Fremantle football department never fully embraced Charlesworth. In essence, the old school of Australian football kept up its wall of ignorance.

Smyth might be more fortunate.

His entry to AFL football could be as a mentor at Adelaide or Port Adelaide. The Crows, blessed by bigger budgets, are repeatedly looking at outside sources for the next edge in sport - and coach Neil Craig last week revealed he is re-evaluating his coaching structure.

Craig's willingness to bring in achievers in Olympic cycling and swimming - Charlie Walsh and Glenn Beringen respectively - illustrates Adelaide is not a closed shop and that Craig does not have a closed mind.

The Power is amid a critical phase of planning a blueprint for its future, particularly in its football department.

Smyth has a long-standing friendship with Port coach Mark Williams, making his entry to the Power headquarters at Alberton easier than Charlesworth's existence at Fremantle, where the Dockers seemed to be forever questioning Charleworth's presence in their club.

But Smyth's value to Australian football appears to extend to AFL House and, in particular, the league's football operations chief, Adrian Anderson and his Laws of the Game committee.

For much of the past week - with all that time on his hands - Smyth has taken up the challenge of beating "tempo" footy.

That is the "un-Australian football" tactic of a team burning the clock, by holding possession, chipping the ball to loose men in defence and, in the process, annoying even its own supporters.

It begins with a player signalling "tempo" by holding the ball above his head. And immediately the crowd groans knowing the contest is to be put on hold.

In the 1980s the tactic - used by Port Adelaide coach John Cahill to win the 1979 SANFL grand final against South Adelaide - was to waste time by having the ball repeatedly punched over the boundary line at throw-ins.

The AFL reacted by stopping the clock as soon as the ball crossed a boundary, making this time-wasting tactic redundant.

Smyth is suggesting the same apply against "tempo".

At time-on of every quarter, the timekeepers would only take time off the clock if a team moves the ball forward in its defensive half.

etc etc

Eddie Woloschek

9 Jul 2008, 01:47

*PAF

10 Jul 2008, 12:12

No more basketball or other fast sport crap.
Charlsworth did zippo with the Dockers, zilch, nada and Craig has managed to build the most average team of the last 100 years with his motorless motorbike knowledge.

Black 18

10 Jul 2008, 12:30

[quote=*PAF;11659119]No more basketball or other fast sport crap.
quote]

Yep :thumbsu:

Enough reinventing the wheel. More tough, knowledgeable footy guys.

I like the look of Hawthorn's coaches box with guys like Hardwick, Viney and co. That's the type of guys I would like to see at Alberton.

FishingRick04

10 Jul 2008, 12:35

Port actually needs a coach that knows something about football. Why are Port people suckers for this "innovation" rubbish whenever someone (usually a PAFC insider) poses an idea from left-field? It's just a distraction from the problems we have doing our core business, namely, winning games. WINNING=CROWDS=SUPPORTERS=MONEY. It is true that Phil Smyth might help Port with their problems. So too might some of the posters on this board. And the Wiggles might help too. Get a head coach who is as accountable as his players are supposed to be. Get an administration with a little fortitude. WIN.

I never thought that I would say this about my club, but after 45 odd years supporting them, Port overall is a boring organisation that plays boring, losing football. The people are voting with their feet, like me, obviously well past the frustration point.

I don't mean to be offensive here and I am not going to troll through last years posts, but were you saying this sort of stuff last year when we were winning and made the GF? Maybe you wre or weren't, but harsh call on a years bad result so far!

As for Smyth, it's very narrow minded of people to say we only want footy people that's it. Have you considered that Neil Craig and Charlie Walsh have been able to get an average group, to play very well due to their fitness perhaps? That's how I would view it personally.

Now Phil may not be worth a grain of salt as a FT assistant coach technique's to players and all that sort of information but he would have an upside as a strategist perhaps?

He has played elite sport at the highest level, he has successfully coached premierships at basketball, so he would have a good brain for player pyschology, man management and possible match day strategy? people say footy has become "basketballeque" so perhaps his insight into breaking down zones could be important to a head coach?

Dunno could backfire, but sometimes trying something outside the square can work!

I say where's Phil Walsh?

*PAF

10 Jul 2008, 12:45

... Have you considered that Neil Craig and Charlie Walsh have been able to get an average group, to play very well due to their fitness perhaps? ...
We are infinitely closer to winning a GF than the Crows.
If anybody wants to bookmark this post they are more than welcome to do so. :thumbsu:

PowerKat

10 Jul 2008, 12:56

...

Now Phil may not be worth a grain of salt as a FT assistant coach technique's to players and all that sort of information but he would have an upside as a strategist perhaps?

He has played elite sport at the highest level, he has successfully coached premierships at basketball, so he would have a good brain for player pyschology, man management and possible match day strategy? people say footy has become "basketballeque" so perhaps his insight into breaking down zones could be important to a head coach?

Dunno could backfire, but sometimes trying something outside the square can work!

I say where's Phil Walsh?

I would say, that considering Phil Smyth's close friendship with the coach, he is already having an influence. In fact, I'd be astounded if he wasn't. I'm not sure it's a good thing, considering the ongoing criticism of our structure & gameplan. So, regardless of the perceived positives that Phil may or may not bring, I have some doubts that further influence would be a good thing. It would depend on exactly what his role was though.

captain ebert

10 Jul 2008, 13:22

I never thought that I would say this about my club, but after 45 odd years supporting them, Port overall is a boring organisation that plays boring, losing football. The people are voting with their feet, like me, obviously well past the frustration point.

come off it mate.

FishingRick04

10 Jul 2008, 13:46

We are infinitely closer to winning a GF than the Crows.
If anybody wants to bookmark this post they are more than welcome to do so. :thumbsu:

Big call, but possible, but I never said anything of that ilk or implied it.

All I am saying is that using different sporting influences has helped the Crows. Realitically their fitness is very very good, better than ours really and maybe that can be put down to old Charlie. This additional fitness may have helped them win games they shouldn't have.

Everyone thinks their squad is ordinary (other than their supporters) but the last 4 seasons they have backed it up with reasobale results, so maybe the external influences have helped them.

FishingRick04

10 Jul 2008, 13:49

I would say, that considering Phil Smyth's close friendship with the coach, he is already having an influence. In fact, I'd be astounded if he wasn't. I'm not sure it's a good thing, considering the ongoing criticism of our structure & gameplan. So, regardless of the perceived positives that Phil may or may not bring, I have some doubts that further influence would be a good thing. It would depend on exactly what his role was though.

That is a tough call, you are blaming Phil for something he isn't even involved in.

If what you say is true well then surely Mark would just dsicount the idea and say, geez his advice has been crap, he's got me in the shit!
Mark needs a match day strategist to fill the void of Bailey/Walsh and Co. I don't think Phil is the answer, I think he would be a good consultant however, make needs an astute 2IC. I thought Buckley would be a great fit, but possibly unlikely. perhaps a Pagan or Daniher could be a good fit to assist, if they were interested

PowerKat

10 Jul 2008, 14:07

That is a tough call, you are blaming Phil for something he isn't even involved in.

If what you say is true well then surely Mark would just dsicount the idea and say, geez his advice has been crap, he's got me in the shit!
Mark needs a match day strategist to fill the void of Bailey/Walsh and Co. I don't think Phil is the answer, I think he would be a good consultant however, make needs an astute 2IC. I thought Buckley would be a great fit, but possibly unlikely. perhaps a Pagan or Daniher could be a good fit to assist, if they were interested

No - I'm not. I'm only suggesting that it's likely that he has had some influence already, considering his friendship with the coach. Do you think he hasn't?

Then, I am asking the question that - if he has had some influence then how is the current situation an endorsement to increase his involvement? (IF that would be any part of his role anyway). I have referred to criticisms of our structure and gameplan because they are currently (and have historically been) a repeated theme in analysis of the club's performance. I think it's a topical reference.

So, in light of my above thoughts I have some doubts - it's just my opinion based on available observations and some assumptions. There is no 'blaming'.

FishingRick04

10 Jul 2008, 14:38

No - I'm not. I'm only suggesting that it's likely that he has had some influence already, considering his friendship with the coach. Do you think he hasn't?

Then, I am asking the question that - if he has had some influence then how is the current situation an endorsement to increase his involvement? (IF that would be any part of his role anyway). I have referred to criticisms of our structure and gameplan because they are currently (and have historically been) a repeated theme in analysis of the club's performance. I think it's a topical reference.

So, in light of my above thoughts I have some doubts - it's just my opinion based on available observations and some assumptions. There is no 'blaming'.

Probably not no. My mate's and engineer, we talk about engineering topics, doesn't mean he goes to work and implements the dribble I talk about. Could be the same thing, Phil may sprout some opinions and that's as far as it goes.

I don't think you can lay any blame whilst he's not employed

PowerKat

10 Jul 2008, 15:45

Probably not no. My mate's and engineer, we talk about engineering topics, doesn't mean he goes to work and implements the dribble I talk about. Could be the same thing, Phil may sprout some opinions and that's as far as it goes.

I don't think you can lay any blame whilst he's not employed

I'll say it again - I'm not laying any blame.

Eddie Woloschek

10 Jul 2008, 18:00

come off it mate.

Maybe I'm just numb with excitement.

FishingRick04

10 Jul 2008, 18:04

I'll say it again - I'm not laying any blame.

Ok sorry bad choice of words but you believe he's had some influence and therefore should be sceptical of an appointment of this sort
"No - I'm not. I'm only suggesting that it's likely that he has had some influence already, considering his friendship with the coach. Do you think he hasn't?

Then, I am asking the question that - if he has had some influence then how is the current situation an endorsement to increase his involvement?"

I still think it's a very long bow to draw.

I would be all for him or someone else putting their hand up in some sort of consultancy role if it's workable. I would want him or anyone else being 2IC unless they are dramatically involved in footy eg Buckley & co

PowerKat

10 Jul 2008, 19:31

Ok sorry bad choice of words but you believe he's had some influence and therefore should be sceptical of an appointment of this sort
"No - I'm not. I'm only suggesting that it's likely that he has had some influence already, considering his friendship with the coach. Do you think he hasn't?

Then, I am asking the question that - if he has had some influence then how is the current situation an endorsement to increase his involvement?"

I still think it's a very long bow to draw.

I would be all for him or someone else putting their hand up in some sort of consultancy role if it's workable. I would want him or anyone else being 2IC unless they are dramatically involved in footy eg Buckley & co

This is going around in circles - I'm speculating - I don't 'believe' anything. I have no facts - only assumption. Likely does not mean "I believe he HAS" - I think it's likely he has. I think it's likely (ie possible / probable) - you don't - fair enough.

The follow on point - IF he has, then what's the issue with my questioning the prudence of further involvement? It's hypothetical (ie only theory).

Ford Fairlane

11 Jul 2008, 01:32

I don't mean to be offensive here and I am not going to troll through last years posts, but were you saying this sort of stuff last year when we were winning and made the GF? Maybe you wre or weren't, but harsh call on a years bad result so far!

As for Smyth, it's very narrow minded of people to say we only want footy people that's it. Have you considered that Neil Craig and Charlie Walsh have been able to get an average group, to play very well due to their fitness perhaps? That's how I would view it personally.

Now Phil may not be worth a grain of salt as a FT assistant coach technique's to players and all that sort of information but he would have an upside as a strategist perhaps?

He has played elite sport at the highest level, he has successfully coached premierships at basketball, so he would have a good brain for player pyschology, man management and possible match day strategy? people say footy has become "basketballeque" so perhaps his insight into breaking down zones could be important to a head coach?

Dunno could backfire, but sometimes trying something outside the square can work!

I say where's Phil Walsh?

Eddie doesn't need me to defend him but I can assure you he will never lead the Williams cheer squad, last year's results or not.;) And if you look at our results since 2004, last year was the aberration not the norm.

As for strategists, we already pay Phil Walsh to do that, why would we need another one?

And as far as Phil Smyth goes, have a look thru 36er fan forums over the past couple of years to gauge their feelings about his man management skills. It's none too positive. And it reads a lot like Choco, especially the love-in for senior players.

I agree with Eddie, we need a couple of hard-nosed football people in the box, and especially one to tell Choco and his mind-meld mate Tredders that Justin Westhoff, all 199cm of him, is not a tall marking key forward.

FishingRick04

11 Jul 2008, 12:32

Eddie doesn't need me to defend him but I can assure you he will never lead the Williams cheer squad, last year's results or not.;) And if you look at our results since 2004, last year was the aberration not the norm.

As for strategists, we already pay Phil Walsh to do that, why would we need another one?

And as far as Phil Smyth goes, have a look thru 36er fan forums over the past couple of years to gauge their feelings about his man management skills. It's none too positive. And it reads a lot like Choco, especially the love-in for senior players.

I agree with Eddie, we need a couple of hard-nosed football people in the box, and especially one to tell Choco and his mind-meld mate Tredders that Justin Westhoff, all 199cm of him, is not a tall marking key forward.

But why look at results from only post 2004? 2001 to 2004 are during his reign also.

2005 onwards was always going to be difficult, we had alot of experience vacate us and it isn't easy to replace them quickly, history has shown us this with all teams. Really we under achieved in 01 to 03 and should have had another premiership in 02 or 03.

But to say "I never thought that I would say this about my club, but after 45 odd years supporting them, Port overall is a boring organisation that plays boring, losing football. The people are voting with their feet, like me, obviously well past the frustration point."

All I was saying who would have said this last year? Ford you have been around for awhile, were these comments being made last season or were people soaking in the glory of a great season it was?

Maybe I am level headed but I assumed 2006 to 2009 was going to be a turbulent time with some peaks and troughs. 2007 was an amazing achievement all things considered.

Now 2009 to 2011(12) my expectation is to play finals and do well.

Rucci wrote a good article in the paper today about Adelaide and always making the finals. The glory years of the SANFl are past us when clubs would recruit through zones, it doesn't work like that anymore. So even though we don't want to lose games the system is designed that if you want a higher chance of success a club needs to bottom out to get the players to drive a club back upwards. Now I am not saying this is Ports intent but that is the bonus from it.

The other key indicator is stability. Look at Thomson, people were questioning his motivation and desperation to be a senior coach after 8 years, now he has Geelong as a well oiled machine, sometimes teams go through these patches. Actually us now could be compared to Geelong of 2004 to 2006.

Phil had issues out of his control at the 36er's. Mainly financial and contractual, it would have been difficult operating on a base level of the salary cap and losing players by the droves due to money. The guy was a champion player and coach to discount his knowledge bank would be folly. I am not saying he is the answer but to simply throw it out straight away would be crazy too.

As for Walsh, he moved out of the coaches box, well that was what I thought I read, he became a scout but doesn't have match day duties. However, I also read that match day he was supposed to be very good.

Personally as stated elsewhere 2IC I would love either Buckley, Hird (very unlikely) or a Daniher, Pagan Type. They have the knowledge base to help Mark and not be push overs. Danihers comments of 3AW are very astute and alot of supporters would like his thinking, he believes teams that play a loose man behind the ball will never win a premiership :)

That's just my opinion, I know I don't have the knowledge of yourself, Macca and probably a few others but to say we are a boring footy club, playing boring football is very tough. Let's give to next year and then see.

Ford Fairlane

11 Jul 2008, 19:41

2001-2004 saw the maturation of a very good initial squad with the associated draft concessions, spearheaded by an absolute champion in the forward line, and some astute recruiting up to that point. Post-2004 is the real bread and butter stuff, where you see the development of the squad on as level a playing field as the AFL allows.

My point is Eddie and others are frustrated by what we've seen post-2004. Eddie was very strong in his view, but I can see where he is coming from. We've had the clinging to veterans past their use by date, the denials about game plans just before changes were introduced, en masse introduction of young players when seasons are shot. And we've seen all that in microcosm this year alone. The past several weeks have been utter chaos. Writing a season off, bringing in 7 new players, then unwriting the season off (or at least saying you're still playing to win) and having a market correction by only bringing in a couple of senior players at selection. It is frustrating, as are some of the off-field issues.

It's well and good to talk about soaking up the glory last year, but when things were bumpy you would have heard the same criticisms, and when we were winning, while it wasn't as blunt, there were still some sharp observations of the way we played.

As far as Smyth goes, we have to get the basics right before we start mucking around with the peripherals. I liken it to a pit crew at Bathurst cleaning the windscreen of a touring car that comes in with its front suspension smashed hitting the wall. Let's make sure we're getting traction with all four wheels before we worry about whether we can see out the windscreen. I'd like to be sure there are a couple of experienced hard-nosed assistants in there that will look Choco and players in the eye and tell them what they don't want to hear.

Bottom line is, our squad is better than where it's placed. Sure we can expect bumpy times, but no one will cop half-arsed performances and lame decisions in the coaching box. People don't like what they're seeing in terms of over-use of the ball, haphazard ball movement, defensive zoning, poor coverage of the man in general play and especially stoppages, small forward lines, perceived lack of on-field commitment, etc. And then if it's questioned you get dismissed if you don't have a level 2 or whatever coaching accreditation. To use the above analogy, you don't need to be a mechanic to know what's wrong when you see a wheel rolling down the hill.

This isn't a pissing contest about who knows more than someone, it's just a place to give opinions, have a discussion and sometimes vent frustration (I put my hand up). You're generally positive and that's great. I'm a bit more pessimistic - or agnostic - perhaps, and some much moreso than me. But sharing views is the point of this place.

FishingRick04

12 Jul 2008, 18:25

This isn't a pissing contest about who knows more than someone, it's just a place to give opinions, have a discussion and sometimes vent frustration (I put my hand up). You're generally positive and that's great. I'm a bit more pessimistic - or agnostic - perhaps, and some much moreso than me. But sharing views is the point of this place.

Of course I agree and everyone is allowed to vent. I justed didn't want me opinions coming over like I knew more than yourself or others, as I don't think so.

I was interested in this comment "We've had the clinging to veterans past their use by date,...."

Which ones do you think? Initially I thought you were talking about over the years but I believe you are talking about this season and your talking about Lade, Wilbur and P.B for example?

Ford Fairlane

12 Jul 2008, 18:47

I meant that comment more in the past. Wilson just was brought in too early, then was dropped with no difference in form, Ladey had an extended run without doing much, but his form was no better or worse when he was dropped. Wilson's had no pre-season and Ladey's been an AA the past couple of years and also had an interrupted pre-season, don't know that it's all over baby blue just yet. In their case it was clinging to players on reputation rather than form. But Choco's a bit like Fos in that way, he gives guys who have served him well more than ample opportunity to run back into form. He was more ruthless earlier as a coach.

PB, I just dislike that quarterbacking HBF role. Teams work it out very quickly now and sit on the player, it robs the other defenders of the autonomy to run and carry themselves and it winds up putting too much pressure on the designated ball carrier. Any defender in position should have the authority to run and carry if he sees an opening, and others should run in support providing blocks and shepherds or providing the receive. Collingwood do it very well, they're a terrific shepherding team. Sure they have guys like Swan and Shaw that probably carry the ball more than others, but they're not the only option. I don't like hearing people talk about Marlon Motlop taking on that QB role, because I don't believe in it as a designated role. Chad was another who played it, and in the end opposition coaches just dragged him away from the play with a dummy CHF.

thegreatdil

16 Jul 2008, 02:01

lol i was a big fan of phil smyth's when he was coaching the 76ers and im a big basketball fan but basketball is virtually a non-contact sport compared to footy. lol i dont see what he would have to offer us as an assistant coach. we need assist coachs like damien hardwick or peter sumich, people who are hard nuts.

lol i wouldnt mind if we brung in hardwick and he eventually became head coach after mark williams stand down or w/e. as a player hardwick was great and as a coach i think great as well

hereselmo1

16 Jul 2008, 02:43

portentous

16 Jul 2008, 19:09

PAFC04

21 Jul 2008, 17:23

I really like the idea of daniher. i think he could fill multiple roles for us.

1. he is much better in the press conference than mark. i actually like marks frankness but he doesnt always come across very well.

2. he could provide a great sounding board for mark in terms of overall game plan

3. he would be very handy as a match day strategist.

4. he was always very well loved by his players so he could be a good link between mark and the players. I generally think mark does ok in this area but there are a few players he doesnt seem to gel with.

Neil Daniher would be a great assistant coach but I think he will be targeted by GoldCoast as the first coach.

I like Neil Daniher, but I think Nathan Buckley would be better, and could learn a lot from Mark, not that he wont learn anything from Malthouse but I think he would learn more from a different coach.