View Full Version : Patrick Smith caught out again
waldo48
29 Feb 2008, 12:12
;) Like most Journalists, Fatprick Smith never lets the truth get in the way of writing some garbage.
Gregg Swann on SEN this morning "Dick Pratt was re-elected unopposed in December and has the full support and confidence of Board and every Director. Every time Partick Smith starts banging on about the AFL wanting Pratt to quit, Andrew Demitiou rings me to tell me that is not the case, they have no issue with Dick Pratt and it is a matter purely for the Carlton Football Club. "
Well Fatprick take this and shove it up your a*re. Let's see how you and Bartlett respond to what Swann has said and when will you get the messsage that we don't give a continental about what you think.
Get a life. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
;) Like most Journalists, Fatprick Smith never lets the truth get in the way of writing some garbage.
Gregg Swann on SEN this morning "Dick Pratt was re-elected unopposed in December and has the full support and confidence of Board and every Director. Every time Partick Smith starts banging on about the AFL wanting Pratt to quit, Andrew Demitiou rings me to tell me that is not the case, they have no issue with Dick Pratt and it is a matter purely for the Carlton Football Club. "
Well Fatprick take this and shove it up your a*re. Let's see how you and Bartlett respond to what Swann has said and when will you get the messsage that we don't give a continental about what you think.
Get a life. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Was Swann talking to the Fatprick when he said this? If so it would've been a shame that I missed a Swann and Fatprick head to head!
Bluebear
29 Feb 2008, 13:29
Was Swann talking to the Fatprick when he said this? If so it would've been a shame that I missed a Swann and Fatprick head to head!
No.......fatprick doesn't like to go head to head with people that actually are involved.......just irrate fans that he can talk over and belittle.:thumbsu:
Bronx Bomber
29 Feb 2008, 13:32
No.......fatprick doesn't like to go head to head with people that actually are involved.......
He doesn't like to back up his argument with facts....
Bluebear
29 Feb 2008, 13:33
He doesn't like to back up his argument with facts....
Pre-requisite at The Australian.
Greg Denham "Voss IS the new coach of the blues.......and Frawley will be his advisor"...........
Bronx Bomber
29 Feb 2008, 13:36
Pre-requisite at The Australian.
Greg Denham "Voss IS the new coach of the blues.......and Frawley will be his advisor"...........
Must be why Greg gets along with KB so well..."Richmond IS in the best position to get Chris Judd"
;) Like most Journalists, Fatprick Smith never lets the truth get in the way of writing some garbage.
Gregg Swann on SEN this morning "Dick Pratt was re-elected unopposed in December and has the full support and confidence of Board and every Director. Every time Partick Smith starts banging on about the AFL wanting Pratt to quit, Andrew Demitiou rings me to tell me that is not the case, they have no issue with Dick Pratt and it is a matter purely for the Carlton Football Club. "
Well Fatprick take this and shove it up your a*re. Let's see how you and Bartlett respond to what Swann has said and when will you get the messsage that we don't give a continental about what you think.
Get a life. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
KB and Patrick Smith have been spiraling down into a bitter-twisted mess, ever since Judd made his move to the Blues public. I actually enjoy their weekly anti-Carlton fabrications. They're quite funny. :)
thegrach
29 Feb 2008, 13:55
For the last few years it seems that he has been living in a little fantasy world and unfortunately Pratt is the latest person to draw his ire. He is a genuine shitcarter, Patrick Smith and I wonder why anyone would bother to pay him to comment on anything.
Bluebear
29 Feb 2008, 14:06
The funny thing is, at the end of this season Pratt may well step down (as he said initially he'd do the job for two years and then hand it over)......I'll bet Fatprick slaps himself on the bag after a long and tireless (or tiresome) campaign.......he finally got his man.:D
For the last few years it seems that he has been living in a little fantasy world and unfortunately Pratt is the latest person to draw his ire. He is a genuine shitcarter, Patrick Smith and I wonder why anyone would bother to pay him to comment on anything.
Calm, considered and informed comment doesn't seem to sell. Its the Jerry Springer principle.
borissey
29 Feb 2008, 14:21
Yet another thing that this idiot forgets with this line of thinking is that Mr. Richard Pratt has solved one of the AFL's biggest problems for it - the state of the Carlton Football Club. In one year he has turned around its hopes and need for further assistance.
The AFL will be thankful to Mr.Pratt for a long while yet, particularly when Carlton plays in front of 75,000 people crowds most weeks like the Pies.
WE ARE COMING BACK
SO FRIG OFF YOU HACK WRITER!!!
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 14:21
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.
Blue Dawn
29 Feb 2008, 14:32
Pre-requisite at The Australian.
Greg Denham "Voss IS the new coach of the blues.......and Frawley will be his advisor"...........
:eek::D
nutcase888
29 Feb 2008, 14:38
posted by Terry Wallet
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.
mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.
Going by that logic it wouldn't matter if the prime minister was completely crooked as long as he was running the country well.
Master of Cooks
29 Feb 2008, 14:38
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.
He did the wrong thing, he was found guilty and he was punished accordingly.
Why should he be punished future???
waldo48
29 Feb 2008, 14:53
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
What Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.
:cool: Let's get one thing straight, Pratt/Visy did not steal $700m of anyone's money. This is just a figure plucked out of the air by those thieving hyenas at Slater & Gordon when they were trying to drum some reward based business called a "class action" for people that were supposedly disadvantaged by the Visy/Amcor action.
Have a look at what Pratt said and, what has not been disproved - Amcor approached Visy about a price arrangement because they were being slaughtered by Visy in the market. Visy agreed and then went on doing exactly what they had been doing, undercutting Amcor's price. Pratt's testimony (again not challenged) was that prices actually fell or did not rise as much as they would have during this period because of Visy's aggressive market approach.
Also, if those hyenas at Slater & Gordron had such a wonderful case, then why haven't they proceeded with a class action. That is because there is nothing for them to chase.
Finally, why did Amcor get off scott free just because they were caught with their hand in the till and rolled over and put their legs in the air. The fact of the matter is that Pratt and Samuel have some history and Samuel has been waiting for some time to have a crack at DP.
He finally found something that he could go to the papers with and Pratt accepted that that had done the wrong thing (in principle) and copped a wack. Since then Samuel has been running around saying "look at me look at me aren't I wonderful" when he actually did bugger all other than work on the paperwork provide by Amcor.
As an Investatigive Organisation the ACCC is a joke and so is Samuel.
It's on this argument that people like Fatprick have been carrying on about DP without ever bothering to check the facts.
Finally, Visy accepted that they had done the wrong thing, copped a fine and have moved on. So should Smith and everybody else.;)
SA Blue
29 Feb 2008, 14:53
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.
While I actually agree with some points, it is not the role of Carlton or the AFL to get him. This was dealt with in the courts and this is where it belongs.
borissey
29 Feb 2008, 15:00
How about some loyalty to the man who saved your footy Club?
How about some support for a life-long fan (and player) who has put his ballson the line for the Club.
No one denies he made a mistake, but that's for the Courts. Pratt has done more for this club than just about anyone in the last 20 years so why wouldn't you want to stick up for him?
And dont spread that rubbish about $700m, which was a made up number in an article, and don't think that you aren't ripped off all of the time due to uncompetitive practices. Think banking, air flight, supermarkets, petrol..Does that make it right? NO But does that mean I'm not going to forgive the man who has given the CFC renewed life?
Hell No.
Pratt has my support.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 15:21
How about some loyalty to the man who saved your footy Club?
How about some support for a life-long fan (and player) who has put his ballson the line for the Club.
No one denies he made a mistake, but that's for the Courts. Pratt has done more for this club than just about anyone in the last 20 years so why wouldn't you want to stick up for him?
And dont spread that rubbish about $700m, which was a made up number in an article, and don't think that you aren't ripped off all of the time due to uncompetitive practices. Think banking, air flight, supermarkets, petrol..Does that make it right? NO But does that mean I'm not going to forgive the man who has given the CFC renewed life?
Hell No.
Pratt has my support.
As President he sets the example. Simple fact of life.
It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.
You can have all the gratitude you like for what Pratt has done for Carlton but the simple fact of life is he has been found guilty of the biggest cartel in our history. And contrary to the case made a few posts back , that IS stealing OUR money....and in massive quantitys.
I state again, if Pratt is allowed to go unpunished at the football level, then it is open slather. You cannot punish ANYBODY. If that is the precedent the AFL or Carlton want to set, then fine. If not, then he must GO.
simple.
I am sure that if it was someone of a lesser stature, like Rod Butterrs or Ray Horsburgh etc, they would be long gone.
Pratt has done a lot of good for Carlton, but what he did was inexcuseable and he should GO.
Now.
Master of Cooks
29 Feb 2008, 15:34
As President he sets the example. Simple fact of life.
It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.
You can have all the gratitude you like for what Pratt has done for Carlton but the simple fact of life is he has been found guilty of the biggest cartel in our history. And contrary to the case made a few posts back , that IS stealing OUR money....and in massive quantitys.
I state again, if Pratt is allowed to go unpunished at the football level, then it is open slather. You cannot punish ANYBODY. If that is the precedent the AFL or Carlton want to set, then fine. If not, then he must GO.
simple.
I am sure that if it was someone of a lesser stature, like Rod Butterrs or Ray Horsburgh etc, they would be long gone.
Pratt has done a lot of good for Carlton, but what he did was inexcuseable and he should GO.
Now.
First of all his crime was at a football level so why should he be punished there? If you stole some pens from your previous job would you be expected to be punished at you current job?:rolleyes:
He was punished, he admitted his mistakes, he copped it on the chin, and now he's moving on having learnt from his mistake.
Therefore as far as i can see if someone at the football club does something wrong they can can be punished and then after they do their time we all move on.
The Old Dark Navy's
29 Feb 2008, 15:46
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.Not concerned by the opinion of a supporter who likes to bag out Carlton players on the main board to win favour with opposition supporters. Who would have bailed out Carlton if not Pratt? You??? Not bloody likely. He is doing his job at Carlton and that is what true Carlton supporters should be concerned about considering how dire our situation was. His cartel activities have been dealt with and nothing occurred as president of Carlton and it has not brought Carlton into disrepute.
Supporters support, not seek personal glory by knocking down all and sundry.
Bluebear
29 Feb 2008, 16:07
mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.
Going by that logic it wouldn't matter if the prime minister was completely crooked as long as he was running the country well.
Said who?
All we are saying is that he has been punished, and is still open to civil action from those cmpanies affected (who by the way won't be passing on their spoils to you, but you're not concerned about that are you?;)).
How many times and ways should he be punished?
Why should the CFC be punished?
He did the crime, he has "done the time"..............why should the AFL do anything?
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 16:21
The Old Dark Navy's,
if you are referring to my criticism of Jarrod Waite in a thread on the main board, you will find that i said the same things and more here on the carlton board.
i have no interest in currying favour with anyone.
my only interest is stating my opinions and reading others.
WC Eagles FC
29 Feb 2008, 16:40
He did the wrong thing, he was found guilty and he was punished accordingly.
Why should he be punished future???
Ben Cousins never got charged with anything and he was sacked and delisted.
EddieBettsIsAChamp
29 Feb 2008, 16:53
Ben Cousins never got charged with anything and he was sacked and delisted.
That was a choice that the club made, and as you stated, had nothing to do with the legal system.
It would have been different if he wasn't on an AFL list. All this stuff happened before Pratt was president of Carlton
SA Blue
29 Feb 2008, 17:42
Ben Cousins never got charged with anything and he was sacked and delisted.
He was charged with running away from the Booze bus.
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.
So, do you think we should give the money back he has so far given to the club because it's (by your opinion) tainted. Or are you willing to accept all that and then just ask Dick to leave?
What about all the good he has done since being President, shall we also forget all that as well?
Dick Pratt has put years of love, work and money into this club. Not just in the past 12 months or so, but a lifetime of it.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.
I would appreciate you providing documented proof that an amount of 700 million dollars was stolen.
And, no, an arbitrary figure being bandied around by a legal firm for a class action is not proof.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 18:06
So, do you think we should give the money back he has so far given to the club because it's (by your opinion) tainted. Or are you willing to accept all that and then just ask Dick to leave?
What about all the good he has done since being President, shall we also forget all that as well?
Dick Pratt has put years of love, work and money into this club. Not just in the past 12 months or so, but a lifetime of it.
Richard Pratt has been tremendous for the Carlton FC.
I don't expect Carlton to sack him. Clubs are perennially and notoriously self serving.
On the other hand, the AFL are an independant body running the biggest sporting business in the land. And that business( AFL footy) belongs to the people. The people of 16 clubs. The same people that Richard Pratt ripped off.
If the AFL do nothing about Pratt, they surrender the right to pontificate about anyone or anybody.
The AFL is all about public image. It is a big business. Pratt knows all about big business. It is a tough game.
He got caught. He must go.
AlecDuncan
29 Feb 2008, 18:08
mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.
Any amount of price-fixing is wrong, but you should be wary of bandying the $700M figure. It's an guesstimate from a lawyer, it's shared between Visy and Amcor, and who knows what percentage each is liable for? I wouldn't assume 50/50.
It's a big deal, but it's not a criminal offence, and it doesn't disqualify Pratt as a company director. He did and will take his lumps in court and that's the only law that matters. Beyond that it's a matter between him and the members, and we're all very happy together thanks.
You are a member Nutcase, aren't you?
AlecDuncan
29 Feb 2008, 18:11
It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.
Our first comparison of Pratt to Chopper Reid.
You are officially a ****wit.
Dramoth
29 Feb 2008, 18:15
take your one-eyed blinkers off people.
what Patrick is saying about Pratt is true. He has been found guilty of the biggest price fixing cartel in our history.
700 Million dollars of OUR money he and his mates stole.
If Pratt is allowed to get away with this by Carlton and the AFL, how can they possibly punish anyone for a wrong doing?
If Pratt is allowed to remain, then it is open slather.
Anything is allowed.
As a lifelong Carlton supporter i would state the above if Pratt was President of Carlton or Collingwood or Sydney or whoever.
What he did was not trivial. He should go.
Mate... As a life long supporter of the blues, I think that you are just a waste of space and an outright oxygen thief like Fatprick Smith.
Dick Pratt, who is also a lifelong blues supporter and an ex-player for the club personally did nothing wrong. Visy, his company got dinged for price fixing and because it is owned by Dick, thats all that it takes for a simple minded moron like you to add 2 and 2 together and get 700 million.
Dick has put more into the club than you, I and every other blues fan on this forum will ever be able to do.
He has raised the fortunes of the club back up to where we belong, and if we listened to whining little **** burglers like you and nutcase, we would still have Denis Pagin, no Judd and no future except for a possible move interstate to save the club and get a huge handout from the AFL so we can survive.
Now, thanks to Dick and the guys that he brought into the club to get us back were we belong, we are well on the way and looking like we might be up for #17 sooner rather than never.
mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.
Going by that logic it wouldn't matter if the prime minister was completely crooked as long as he was running the country well.
And as for you nutcase... you are purely and simply denying some village somewhere in the world of a perfectly good idiot.
As a Carlton supporter, I would expect a little more support for the guy who has saved the club from extinction. But no... you are bleating because they sacked the guy who you give a spit and polish to every night in your dreams who was ruining the club and instilling a culture of failure that was playing into the hands of the AFL for relocating us to Darwin or somewhere else equally barren and inhospitable.
You have lost all credibility amongst the posters on this board with your constant 'Denis is the man' type posts and 'We should never have gotten rid of him'.
If we still had that idiot at the helm, we would have Kreuzer and we possibly would have gotten Masten as well because we wouldnt have gotten Judd and we would be looking at yet another year of tired out cliches and finishing in the bottom 2 again.
I want our club back in the 8... I want to see us winning premierships again and I couldnt see us doing that under Smorgan and Pagan...
So, why dont you crawl back under the rock where you have been hiding for the past couple of months and stay there (And take that other idiot with you for company) because the club doesnt need people like you pulling us down.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 18:19
Our first comparison of Pratt to Chopper Reid.
You are officially a ****wit.
Read what i said properly.
Your response to nutcase888 showed intelligence and thought.
this one didn't.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 18:24
Dramoth,
lol
nice tirade
Dramoth
29 Feb 2008, 18:25
Read what i said properly.
Your response to nutcase888 showed intelligence and thought.
this one didn't.
Because at times, nutcase has actually shown intelligence and thought behind some of his posts, while yours are just crap...
Dramoth
29 Feb 2008, 18:28
Dramoth,
lol
nice tirade
I bet that is a nervous and embarassed laugh as well...
Maybe I got it wrong and it is you thats depriving a village somewhere in the world of their idiot.
Either way, time to go away TerryWallet... your opinions are blowhard trolling posts and are not wanted on this board.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 18:55
oh dear............
The Cranium
29 Feb 2008, 19:21
oh dear............
Take ya pick Wallet, one for ya mouth, you can use the others to fill ya pants....
http://www.hjsstudio.com/socks.jpg
:cool: Let's get one thing straight, Pratt/Visy did not steal $700m of anyone's money. This is just a figure plucked out of the air by those thieving hyenas at Slater & Gordon when they were trying to drum some reward based business called a "class action" for people that were supposedly disadvantaged by the Visy/Amcor action.
Have a look at what Pratt said and, what has not been disproved - Amcor approached Visy about a price arrangement because they were being slaughtered by Visy in the market. Visy agreed and then went on doing exactly what they had been doing, undercutting Amcor's price. Pratt's testimony (again not challenged) was that prices actually fell or did not rise as much as they would have during this period because of Visy's aggressive market approach.
Also, if those hyenas at Slater & Gordron had such a wonderful case, then why haven't they proceeded with a class action. That is because there is nothing for them to chase.
Finally, why did Amcor get off scott free just because they were caught with their hand in the till and rolled over and put their legs in the air. The fact of the matter is that Pratt and Samuel have some history and Samuel has been waiting for some time to have a crack at DP.
He finally found something that he could go to the papers with and Pratt accepted that that had done the wrong thing (in principle) and copped a wack. Since then Samuel has been running around saying "look at me look at me aren't I wonderful" when he actually did bugger all other than work on the paperwork provide by Amcor.
As an Investatigive Organisation the ACCC is a joke and so is Samuel.
It's on this argument that people like Fatprick have been carrying on about DP without ever bothering to check the facts.
Finally, Visy accepted that they had done the wrong thing, copped a fine and have moved on. So should Smith and everybody else.;)
One of the most thought out and informative posts!!
Hope you don't mind, but i'm keeping it in the archives!! Finally a person who has done research on the subject:thumbsu: I have yet to see a rational argument, based on the facts of proceedings in support of Pratt's removal.
I must admit that i'm more worried bout what the government steals from me each week in tax cos i chose to smoke and drink!! Tax has increased the price of a $2.50 pack ten years ago into an $11.00 pack today!! Now Visy don't make the packaging for smokes!!
I don't care bout the shit load of boxes i have to crush and throw out each week or the multi-national companies that pay for them. I don't recall ever being passed on a box fee, and have never received a product increase based on above average box prices!
But most of all, i don't give a Ratt's a** that Pratt had control of the packaging pricing of companies owned by people like Lindsy Fox and Rupert Murdoch!!
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 19:56
Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.
*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS
its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS
its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.
people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.
Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.
BUT
What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.
It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.
People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.
mediumsizered
29 Feb 2008, 20:26
Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.
*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS
its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS
its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.
people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.
Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.
BUT
What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.
It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.
People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.
If in your opinion the AFL shouldn't tolerate Pratt, how about other AFL presidents that have been involved in what you would consider less than acceptable behaviour? Pratt isn't the only one that has been fined for breaches involving a company, just for starters. We could lose a number of club presidents if the AFL followed your wishes.
Then we could start on the players who have been charged with & found guilty of criminal offences. I'm not sure it is appropriate to have a player running around in the AFL who was found guilty of being in possession of stolen prescription pads. Nor am I happy for a wife basher to be running around. Then of course there is the player who urinated on a croupier & who was also more recently involved in a brawl in a South Melbourne pub. What of a player who was caught driving at 78km above the speed limit? No-one seemed concerned about the ex-Carlton star performing official duties at another AFL club, despite his well known history of substance abuse & less than savoury associates. I could go on, but I think I have made my point. If Richard Pratt has to go, there should be a lot more players & officials go with him.
FWIW, a bank robbery is a lot different to price-fixing. You don't get held at gunpoint, by a drug-crazed nutter, when a couple of cardboard manufacturers decided to collude. I doubt anyone would know when they are the victim of price-fixing, whereas the poor bank employee knows exactly when he/she has been a victim of a bank robbery & in many cases never fully recovers from the traumatic experience.
Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.
*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS
its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS
its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.
people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.
Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.
BUT
What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.
It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.
People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.
So where is the proof regarding your statement that Pratt and his mates stole $700 million?
avid blue supporter
29 Feb 2008, 20:34
As President he sets the example. Simple fact of life.
It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.
You can have all the gratitude you like for what Pratt has done for Carlton but the simple fact of life is he has been found guilty of the biggest cartel in our history. And contrary to the case made a few posts back , that IS stealing OUR money....and in massive quantitys.
I state again, if Pratt is allowed to go unpunished at the football level, then it is open slather. You cannot punish ANYBODY. If that is the precedent the AFL or Carlton want to set, then fine. If not, then he must GO.
simple.
I am sure that if it was someone of a lesser stature, like Rod Butterrs or Ray Horsburgh etc, they would be long gone.
Pratt has done a lot of good for Carlton, but what he did was inexcuseable and he should GO.
Now.
:mad: You are a complete and utter sanctamoneous flowering d*ckhead carrying on like you are. Why don't you get a life. Visy, not DP (although it is accepted that DP is Visy) accepted that there had been some wrong doing, got landed with a penalty, paid the fine and moved on.
Life moves on but sometimes people like you just can not let it go can you?
You remind me of all these clowns that get around now trying to blame everyone else for their stupid behaviour rather than accepting that their own actions caused the problem. They will not accept responsibilty for their own action - is that you?
Why don't you accept that a wrong and illegal business decision was made, a penalty was applied, accepted and paid. Life and business moves on.
If you can't accept that, then I feel very sorry for you. Just accept that things happen and people who make errors and mistakes should have the right and opportunity to move on and make amends where they can.
This should not prevent them from being part of other areas of life.
If you can't do or accept this , then I pity you.:)
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 20:48
medium,
things should be judged on their merits. If Pratts offence was trivial, then he gets dealt with and we move on. But it wasn't trivial. If any other president was found guilty of what Pratt was then i would argue that he should go too.
players are players. they get up to the antics that young men do. If they cross the line of acceptability though, the AFL steps in.
Pratt is one of the 16 figureheads of the AFL. what he did is unnacceptable and the AFL should step in.
Otherwise they are pissing into the wind with this recreational drug stuff and betting stuff and should just let everyone run their own race.
They can't pick and choose misdemeanours.
I disagree with you on your opinion of white collar crime.
Donstuie
29 Feb 2008, 20:51
Back on-topic, Swann also cut KB off about Judd and made it clear that Richmond were NEVER in the picture to pick him up :D
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 20:52
So where is the proof regarding your statement that Pratt and his mates stole $700 million?
Sherb,
the proof of his guilt is in his guilty plea.
lets not get into semantics about how many hundreds of millions of dollars he illegally skimmed.
400?...500?...600?....700?....a billion
Sherb,
the proof of his guilt is in his guilty plea.
lets not get into semantics about how many hundreds of millions of dollars he illegally skimmed.
400?...500?...600?....700?....a billion
So you state something as fact and then when challenged can't back it up. What a surprise.
You have no idea what amount was involved, as can no-one for that matter. Why? Because you would have to know what would have happened in the market if the collusion had not occurred - which is alternative timeline stuff. For all we know it could have been very little.
The bottom line here is that you posted a fabrication as fact in order to push your agenda. Poor form. :thumbsd:
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 21:03
Avid Blue,
i have all the sympathy and forgiveness in the world for people in tough times or tough situations who make mistakesand bad decisions.....if you knew me you'd know this to be true.
i don't have sympathy for greedy billionaires who knowingly steal hundreds of millions off US. He knew exactly what he was doing and he did it because of greed.
Donstuie
29 Feb 2008, 21:07
Guys, I think we're all missing the big picture here.
Patrick Smith getting owned and KB getting humiliated by Swann on his own show
Let's put things in perspective here!
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 21:08
sherb,
ask yourself a few questions.
was what Pratt did wrong?
was it trivial?
was it very serious?
what was his intent?
did he plead guilty when faced with the facts?
did the judge say it was shameful?
etc
Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.
*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS
its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS
its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.
people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.
Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.
BUT
What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.
It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.
People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.
l believe you have made your opinion quite clear to everyone, l reckon you should give it a rest on this thread now.
It is clear Pratt did the wrong thing, he was not banned from company directorship and that is the were the matter ends.
sherb,
ask yourself a few questions.
was what Pratt did wrong?
was it trivial?
was it very serious?
what was his intent?
did he plead guilty when faced with the facts?
did the judge say it was shameful?
etc
Hi My username is Audas, and you - dont know squat.
An intellectual sycophant.
Respond to what has been said to you, deal with the facts, the reality - simply conjuring up your poverty dressed as morality (which is simply loathsome), your failed aspirations, mediocre philosophy and purrile condescension do not, in any way, account for the situation.
Moral grandstanding, without even considering the issues beyond what benefits your own pathetic regrets is not an argument, it does not even rouse a considered response - simply pity.
you have an agenda, there is no doubt you are involved in some way and are simply causing trouble - be honest - at least to yourself you miserable excuse for a chemical reaction masquerading as a thought.
Attend to the issues raised, which have been quoted again, and again - thread after thread :- your morals repulse me.
Nelson Mandella was imprisoned for most of his life as a terrorist :- should he be allowed to be president ?
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 21:32
l believe you have made your opinion quite clear to everyone, l reckon you should give it a rest on this thread now.
It is clear Pratt did the wrong thing, he was not banned from company directorship and that is the were the matter ends.
mac,
i think you're right about giving it a rest. butting head against brick walls gets tiresome after a while.
i will say though, that the AFL banned Ben Cousins for bringing the game into disrepute. A judgement that they independantly made. The same could be applied to Pratt.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 21:34
Audas(or is it Tom Elliott).
what don't you get about his guilt?
wtf, saying i have an obvious agenda and am involved in some way.
i'm a bloke, a footy fan on a fricken footy website who thinks the AFL should tell Dick Pratt to stand down as one of its presidents.
Donstuie
29 Feb 2008, 21:37
Guys, KB GOT OWNED ON HIS OWN SHOW!!! And we're here bitching with each other! This is a landmark day people! We should be ****ing celebrating! :thumbsd:
avid blue supporter
29 Feb 2008, 21:51
Avid Blue,
i have all the sympathy and forgiveness in the world for people in tough times or tough situations who make mistakesand bad decisions.....if you knew me you'd know this to be true.
i don't have sympathy for greedy billionaires who knowingly steal hundreds of millions off US. He knew exactly what he was doing and he did it because of greed.
:eek: What a complete load of Crap. I have no sympathy for some drug addled fool that does him or herself some damage. Yet, because they do not have the mental strength or will power to be part of society then we are supposed to make allowances for them while the rest of us struggle on to make a decent living.
I will say again and in plain english (which I hope you might understand) apart from entering into an illegal arrangement with Amcor, no one has produced any proof that any one has suffered any loss. It is all supposition.
Where has anyone come forward to provide absolute and irrefutable evidence that the Visy/Amcor caused identifiable losses. There is nothing!
If you had bothered to read my initial post you would see that all Visy was prosecuted for was for entering to an illegal arrangement. They got fined for this. Tell me where there has been one single case of identifiable loss.
No, the only thing you can do rabbit on about is Billionaires doing this and that. Provide some f*cking concrete evidence to back up your arguements or just shut up and let the rest of us get on with our lives.
If you actually had to go out and earn a dollar instead of just sitiing in some cushy Office or Govt job as you probably do, you might understand what actually goes on in the real world.
Just get a life and move on. I hope that you have a good day.:rolleyes:
KB and Patrick Smith have been spiraling down into a bitter-twisted mess, ever since Judd made his move to the Blues public. I actually enjoy their weekly anti-Carlton fabrications. They're quite funny. :)
That's what you get when you put a moron Richmond and moron Essendon supporters together. Absolute tripe.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 21:59
i have ruffled some white collar feathers....shrugs.
Audas(or is it Tom Elliott).
what don't you get about his guilt?
wtf, saying i have an obvious agenda and am involved in some way.
i'm a bloke, a footy fan on a fricken footy website who thinks the AFL should tell Dick Pratt to stand down as one of its presidents.
Nelson Mandela was guilty as well . . . respond to what has been said - quite simple really. Respond to the intelligent remarks which have been made regarding the situation......as I said, Mandella was guilty, he was in Jail, should he be allowed to be president ? You appear exceedingly keen not to consider anything except that which supports your argument despite its incredible lack of legitimacy, its extreme isolation and total disregard for any other consideration beyond that which supports your anti-corporate stance.
Answer the question . Should Madella be allowed to be president ?
i have ruffled some white collar feathers....shrugs.
You haven't ruffled mine, simply pointing out the bleeding obvious....agenda driven moral grandstanding masking emotional regrets and misguided animosity.
:eek: What a complete load of Crap. I have no sympathy for some drug addled fool that does him or herself some damage. Yet, because they do not have the mental strength or will power to be part of society then we are supposed to make allowances for them while the rest of us struggle on to make a decent living.
I will say again and in plain english (which I hope you might understand) apart from entering into an illegal arrangement with Amcor, no one has produced any proof that any one has suffered any loss. It is all supposition.
Where has anyone come forward to provide absolute and irrefutable evidence that the Visy/Amcor caused identifiable losses. There is nothing!
If you had bothered to read my initial post you would see that all Visy was prosecuted for was for entering to an illegal arrangement. They got fined for this. Tell me where there has been one single case of identifiable loss.
No, the only thing you can do rabbit on about is Billionaires doing this and that. Provide some f*cking concrete evidence to back up your arguements or just shut up and let the rest of us get on with our lives.
If you actually had to go out and earn a dollar instead of just sitiing in some cushy Office or Govt job as you probably do, you might understand what actually goes on in the real world.
Just get a life and move on. I hope that you have a good day.:rolleyes:
Still waiting Terry -
AlecDuncan
29 Feb 2008, 22:38
You haven't ruffled mine, simply pointing out the bleeding obvious....agenda driven moral grandstanding masking emotional regrets and misguided animosity.
...and with a join date of Jan 2008. Sounds like the typical formula for your typical opposition troll.
TerryWallet
29 Feb 2008, 22:48
Audas you idjit,
Mandela was a political prisoner.
Donstuie
29 Feb 2008, 23:00
Mods, please put this thread out of its misery :thumbsd:
Audas you idjit,
Mandela was a political prisoner.
he was convicted of terrorism, sabbotage. Idiot.
The point being, you know nothing - quite simple. Yet you come onto this forum espousing your moral twaddle - you do not have the right to preach morals or even evaluate your own.
Differentiate between one person guilty and another, why it is ok in your books for one to be considered able to be president of a country, the other not fit for a domestic footy club.
They are both guilty, now tell me why one is ok and the other is not ?
Can you do that ?
Doctor Moffet
29 Feb 2008, 23:53
Word of warning TWallet: you are entitled to an opinion on this board, as long as it concurs with that of the majority.
thylacine60
29 Feb 2008, 23:58
Word of warning TWallet: you are entitled to an opinion on this board, as long as it concurs with that of the majority.
Oh dear, The Maverick who swims against the tide is back. What a strong-willed sentinel you are.
The Old Dark Navy's
1 Mar 2008, 00:09
Word of warning TWallet: you are entitled to an opinion on this board, as long as it concurs with that of the majority.And you are not entitled to express anything on this board. On your bike.
Audas you idjit,
Mandela was a political prisoner.
Mandella was the leader of the ANC. An acknowledged terrorist organisation by governments the world over.
He authorised and lead attacks against the then standing white government. While I do not in anyway condone the actions of that white government, I heartily disagree with the idea that blowing up innocent women and children in attacks against the whites of South Africa.
He also acknowledged himself that he was a terrorist.
It's bleeding heart liberals like yourself that think of him as a political prisoner (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_prisoner). He was jailed because he was leading a rebellion against the then governmenet of his country.
The guy who is currently running for president, also a ruling member of the ANC has been convicted of rape... Is he allowed to be the president of South Africa because he really does have a criminal conviction.
If you dont answer this, you are a complete moron and a troll who likes the sound of his own voice.
As President he sets the example. Simple fact of life.
It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.
You can have all the gratitude you like for what Pratt has done for Carlton but the simple fact of life is he has been found guilty of the biggest cartel in our history. And contrary to the case made a few posts back , that IS stealing OUR money....and in massive quantitys.
I state again, if Pratt is allowed to go unpunished at the football level, then it is open slather. You cannot punish ANYBODY. If that is the precedent the AFL or Carlton want to set, then fine. If not, then he must GO.
simple.
I am sure that if it was someone of a lesser stature, like Rod Butterrs or Ray Horsburgh etc, they would be long gone.
Pratt has done a lot of good for Carlton, but what he did was inexcuseable and he should GO.
Now.
There is only one person thsat should go here, its not me, it not Mr Pratt, that leaves u and ur crap, now piss off!
He has done the crime and the time, now piss off, moron, Go barack for the Dees or Tigers.
...and with a join date of Jan 2008. Sounds like the typical formula for your typical opposition troll.
Yes it does, doesn't it?
if you guys think there such ar**s then just dont listen. couldnt be that hard , you guys are just as bad as kb and fatty patty
Jimthegreat
1 Mar 2008, 12:35
mate u are wasting your time with this mob. according to them a little 700 million dollars worth of price fixing is no big deal - as long as he is doing a good job at Carlton.
Going by that logic it wouldn't matter if the prime minister was completely crooked as long as he was running the country well.Know nothing Nutcase. 700 million (is that the figure........do Amcor have half of that?), that works out to be $35 each person over our population.........and that's over a number of year. You lost $35. you feel ripped off. Dill!!!!! Anyone who thinks Pgana can coach and Pratt should resign derserves no respect.
Jimthegreat
1 Mar 2008, 12:39
Richard Pratt has been tremendous for the Carlton FC.
I don't expect Carlton to sack him. Clubs are perennially and notoriously self serving.
On the other hand, the AFL are an independant body running the biggest sporting business in the land. And that business( AFL footy) belongs to the people. The people of 16 clubs. The same people that Richard Pratt ripped off.
If the AFL do nothing about Pratt, they surrender the right to pontificate about anyone or anybody.
The AFL is all about public image. It is a big business. Pratt knows all about big business. It is a tough game.
He got caught. He must go.Find me one law of this land that says he's not fit to run a company. There's none!!!! Now p1ss off!!!!
Blues_Man
1 Mar 2008, 14:18
As President he sets the example. Simple fact of life.
It is not just a matter for the courts and thats the end of it. By that logic, you could have Carey or Ablett as your President. By that logic, you could have Vizard as president. By that logic, you could have Chopper Reid as president.
You can have all the gratitude you like for what Pratt has done for Carlton but the simple fact of life is he has been found guilty of the biggest cartel in our history. And contrary to the case made a few posts back , that IS stealing OUR money....and in massive quantitys.
I state again, if Pratt is allowed to go unpunished at the football level, then it is open slather. You cannot punish ANYBODY. If that is the precedent the AFL or Carlton want to set, then fine. If not, then he must GO.
simple.
I am sure that if it was someone of a lesser stature, like Rod Butterrs or Ray Horsburgh etc, they would be long gone.
Pratt has done a lot of good for Carlton, but what he did was inexcuseable and he should GO.
Now.
How about you go and we keep Pratt ???
Richard Pratt has been tremendous for the Carlton FC.
I don't expect Carlton to sack him. Clubs are perennially and notoriously self serving.
On the other hand, the AFL are an independant body running the biggest sporting business in the land. And that business( AFL footy) belongs to the people. The people of 16 clubs. The same people that Richard Pratt ripped off.
If the AFL do nothing about Pratt, they surrender the right to pontificate about anyone or anybody.
The AFL is all about public image. It is a big business. Pratt knows all about big business. It is a tough game.
He got caught. He must go.
But you didn't answer my question. Do you believe we should give back the millions of dollars Dick has poured into the club? Are you willing to accept his money, even though you believe it is ill-gained?
You sound like Patrick Smith! Is that your real identity?
Certainly fixed his little red wagon.
May or may not be Patrick (think it would be), but what sort of name is TerryWallet.......obsessed.
Certainly fixed his little red wagon.
May or may not be Patrick (think it would be), but what sort of name is TerryWallet.......
obsessed.
Made me wonder every time I saw it.
A troll or not a troll?
A moderators dilema! :cool:
Made me wonder every time I saw it.
A troll or not a troll?
A moderators dilema! :cool:
I strongly suspect it.
Not because of the stance being adopted (anyone is entitled to that opinion) but more the veracity of the argument, the overuse of emotion and emotive analogies and the fabrication of "facts" (challenges to which were completely ignored).
It looks very much like the debating style of an opposition supporter to me.
Of course, that is only my opinion, I certainly wouldn't state something as fact when I can't prove it. :)
The Old Dark Navy's
1 Mar 2008, 22:12
If the AFL do nothing about Pratt, they surrender the right to pontificate about anyone or anybody.No they don't. They still have the right to deal with AFL employees including players. The AFL can not do anything about Pratt anyway, they have no legal right to do so. You sound just like all the other ignorant opposition supporters who think the AFL can pluck a rule out of the air to deal with Pratt.
The AFL is all about public image. It is a big business. Pratt knows all about big business. It is a tough game.Funny, I thought the AFL was all about the game with marketing of the game secondary to the sport itself. Naturally if the marketing of the game was affected by an individual they might have something to say ... but and consider this carefully when you choose to repeat the same rubbish ..... Pratt's business practices have done ZERO to the AFL. Not one sponsor lost, nothing. Pratt's businesses practices have done nothing to Carlton, record members, record sponsorships, star players joining us.
Perhaps through all of your posturing, you can give one concrete example of how the AFL has been adversely affected by all of this?
The Cranium
2 Mar 2008, 01:42
The latest rant by this absolute tosser:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23299187-16957,00.html
Standards slide in retaliation
Patrck Smith | March 01, 2008
THE AFL does lots of things wrong. The fact that The Price Fixer remains president of Carlton is the latest example of poor judgment.
It leaves the broad community with the perception that someone who manipulates the Australian population - some experts say to the stunning figure of $700m - is an appropriate person to represent a club in the biggest code in the country.
The Cranium
2 Mar 2008, 01:54
And who is this Nut Bag...Posted on Bay 13
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10220074#post10220074
borissey
2 Mar 2008, 09:04
And who is this Nut Bag...Posted on Bay 13
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10220074#post10220074
Correct me if Im wrong but Bay 13 posts are deliberately designed to stir and need not have any basis in truth, fact, history or relevance.
The last true post I saw in there was that Judd had agreed to go to the Pies...hey, hang on.....
blue_chick
2 Mar 2008, 11:03
Blind parochialism is something that has always intrigued me and something i will never understand.
*Some* carlton supporters will defend Pratt till the death no matter what he did because....he is OURS
its like *some* Indians will support Harbijan till the death because...he is OURS
its like *some* Americans will support Bush till the death because...he is OURS.
people should be treated on their merits and actions , irrespective of parochialism.
Pratt has been terrific for Carlton.
BUT
What he did was reprehensible and the AFL should not tolerate him as one of its 16 presidents.
It is the people's game. The same people Pratt defrauded.
People are so ignorant and apathetic of white collar crime. If he held up a bank for $200,000 i wonder if peoples reactions would be different.
You are the biggest shit talker I have ever heard.
I couldn't give a rat's ass about how much we have all been ripped off.
Dick can even rip my clothes off to if he likes, as long as he keep's doing what he has been doing for The Mighty Blue Boy's.
END OF STORYYYYYYYYYYYY.:p:p:p:p:p
The Old Dark Navy's
2 Mar 2008, 11:16
Dick can even rip my clothes off to if he likes, Talk about taking one for the team!
And who is this Nut Bag...Posted on Bay 13
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10220074#post10220074
He's troll who masquerades as a Carlton supporter. He can't post his crap on here anymore so now he's taken it to Bay 13.
Donstuie
2 Mar 2008, 17:29
THE AFL does lots of things wrong. The fact that The Price Fixer remains president of Carlton is the latest example of poor judgment.
But BIG FAT CHUCKER, I thought the AFL wanted to get rid of him? Good work on your facts there BIG FAT CHUCKER.
What's that sound? It's the sounds of BIG FAT CHUCKER backtracking after being owned by Swann.
And who is this Nut Bag...Posted on Bay 13
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10220074#post10220074
What a fcken tool. Seriously what is wrong with people.
C4[2]Yo`DooR
3 Mar 2008, 12:51
I saw we arrange to meet him at a phoney sausage sizzle held at the MCG on the eve of our game vs the Tigers ....
and then WHACK ... we roll him up in a carpet and throw him off a bridge - as Homer would say !
BlueYoss
3 Mar 2008, 15:26
Yo`DooR;10229964']I saw we arrange to meet him at a phoney sausage sizzle held at the MCG on the eve of our game vs the Tigers ....
and then WHACK ... we roll him up in a carpet and throw him off a bridge - as Homer would say !
Looks like my new avatar is going to come in handy :)