View Full Version : The Possibility of a stand out performance by a Rookie/New Draftee
Capitalist
3 Mar 2008, 17:53
Are we (or have we) going to get a real stand out performance?
I’m referring to the newer guys in the team I’ll even include Griffin, Tippet and Sellar for the sake of it.
For the last few years we have never ever had a new draftee or really anyone come out with a bang, we always get a steady steady approach with a few promising things but no real stand-out game to say “I have arrived”
Do you think we are going to get that from someone this year (or have we had it?)
Or is it going to be another softly softly approach like every other year? And if not why not ?
Because so far, whilst I have seen glimpses of potential we haven’t had anything this season IMHO.
By stand-out I mean a 5-6 goal game by a forward, a 25+ touch game by a Midfielder or the domination of a forward by a defender (less likely considering we are blooding midfielders/forwards) or 20 or so hit outs by a ruckman.
Will we get a guy saying "i'm good enough"
Tippet is my tip. He'll be our first Rising Star (not that I'll hold my breath;))
One things for certain; we need at least one Rookie/ New Draftee to figure in our best players regularly if we are to make the finals.
Crows4Flag
3 Mar 2008, 18:03
I rekon Chris Knights came onto the scene with a bang. would have played less that 10 games before constantly being in our top possesion getters from the start
IddyBiddy
3 Mar 2008, 18:03
Personally i believe Kurt Tippett is going to have a cracker and he could have a couple of 5 plus goal games and the potential for a 20 plus ruck game. It is hard to believe just how little football he has played.
I thought Griff looked great on the weekend, very Shaun Rehn like, i think he will be better for last year and perhaps ahead of Maric because of it.
The Crows Truth
3 Mar 2008, 18:05
Are we (or have we) going to get a real stand out performance?
I’m referring to the newer guys in the team I’ll even include Griffin, Tippet and Sellar for the sake of it.
For the last few years we have never ever had a new draftee or really anyone come out with a bang, we always get a steady steady approach with a few promising things but no real stand-out game to say “I have arrived”
Do you think we are going to get that from someone this year (or have we had it?)
Or is it going to be another softly softly approach like every other year? And if not why not ?
Because so far, whilst I have seen glimpses of potential we haven’t had anything this season IMHO.
By stand-out I mean a 5-6 goal game by a forward, a 25+ touch game by a Midfielder or the domination of a forward by a defender (less likely considering we are blooding midfielders/forwards) or 20 or so hit outs by a ruckman.
Will we get a guy saying "i'm good enough"
i dont think any of our rookies will 'dominate' this year.
using your specific criteria you'd possibly expect griffin or maric to get 20 hit outs on occasion. i wouldnt be surprised to see mc kay or douglas or vince hit the magical 25 figure on rare occasion but more likely an average of 15 ish or less for the amt of game time they will play (ie normally less than 75%). i couldnt see sellar kicking a bag this year, perhaps tippett could kick a few goals on occasion (3-4) but unlikely to get a bigger bag imo
obviously its consistency of performance thats more vital than one stand out game anyway...
Capitalist
3 Mar 2008, 18:10
Its just concerns me that we never seem to find a guy who just has it. A bit like Rioli on Saturday night or Tom Hawkins style
We always seem to get players who take a long time to get to where we want them.
An example would have been Jacky starting round 1 and kicking 3-4 goals, this isn’t going to happen because he is clearly out of him dept, or maybe a Taylor Walker coming in a kicking a bag – but once again that ain’t going to happen, heck I’d even take Andy Otten getting a game and picking up a heap of touches playing in the midfield.
I also don’t mean dominate for the entire season and I realise that consistency is the key, but I would be great to have just one of our guys explode onto the scene instead of just growing into it like they normally do.
NikkiNoo
3 Mar 2008, 18:39
Are we (or have we) going to get a real stand out performance?
I’m referring to the newer guys in the team I’ll even include Griffin, Tippet and Sellar for the sake of it.
For the last few years we have never ever had a new draftee or really anyone come out with a bang, we always get a steady steady approach with a few promising things but no real stand-out game to say “I have arrived”
Do you think we are going to get that from someone this year (or have we had it?)
Or is it going to be another softly softly approach like every other year? And if not why not ?
Because so far, whilst I have seen glimpses of potential we haven’t had anything this season IMHO.
By stand-out I mean a 5-6 goal game by a forward, a 25+ touch game by a Midfielder or the domination of a forward by a defender (less likely considering we are blooding midfielders/forwards) or 20 or so hit outs by a ruckman.
Will we get a guy saying "i'm good enough"
Griffin's game against Richmond was pretty promising - 10 possessions, 5 marks, 2 goals, 13 hit outs and 2 tackles!
Mr_Smooth
3 Mar 2008, 18:49
Griffin's game against Richmond was pretty promising - 10 possessions, 5 marks, 2 goals, 13 hit outs and 2 tackles!
and a cult following among the gun club :thumbsu:
Capitalist
3 Mar 2008, 18:50
Griffin's game against Richmond was pretty promising - 10 possessions, 5 marks, 2 goals, 13 hit outs and 2 tackles!
impressive
but not a real stand out game compared to other players.
Personally i believe Kurt Tippett is going to have a cracker and he could have a couple of 5 plus goal games and the potential for a 20 plus ruck game. It is hard to believe just how little football he has played.
I thought Griff looked great on the weekend, very Shaun Rehn like, i think he will be better for last year and perhaps ahead of Maric because of it.
Good post - agree with your observations of both players.
Tippett is getting minimal touches at the moment because he's learning how to play as he plays. but because he puts his very heart and soul into everything he does (Jericho please note) he's learning at a rapid rate and given the opportunities could be pulling out some really good games by year end.
As for Griffin, that very comment of looking Sean Rehn like went through my mind last Saturday during the game. :thumbsu:
There's a lot to like there and I'm very confident that he will pull out a big one during the year - as Nikki correctly pointed out he's already had a very good game last year.
Whilst it would be great to see a young fella explode onto the scene with a massive game it wont be the worst thing if they dont. Been plenty of guys who have had big games at the start of their careers and then gone on to do not a hell of a lot. McGough, Polo and Walker (altho he had a pretty good year last year) all spring to mind off the top of my head. haha even Ben Marsh was great on debut.
Having said that, providing he gets a game i think David Mckay could be one to slot straight into the tempo of AFL footy and have a big game early on. Certainly has the skills and ability to win the ball already, i think it will just depend on game time to be perfectly honest.
Mackay will do it this year. I really think NC rates him and so he should. That means in my opinion he will play most games this year. He will rack them up in a few this year.
I really think we place too much emphasis on size these days. The game has changed a lot in the last 15 years. Sure putting on more muscle is going to assist him dramatically but stand out players like him can still add so much to a team these days.
His ability to get out of trouble, his quick hands, his awareness, his pace & his good tackling technique are all superb. He can play a role for the team and he will do it really well IMO.
You don't have to have a big body to play regularly. Sure it will help over time but real good players like Mackay can adapt and bring so much else to the team.
I'll leave it you to think of the plethra of players who have and are playing at his weight.
Wayne's-World
3 Mar 2008, 19:57
Mackay will do it this year. I really think NC rates him and so he should. That means in my opinion he will play most games this year. He will rack them up in a few this year.
I really think we place too much emphasis on size these days. The game has changed a lot in the last 15 years. Sure putting on more muscle is going to assist him dramatically but stand out players like him can still add so much to a team these days.
His ability to get out of trouble, his quick hands, his awareness, his pace & his good tackling technique are all superb. He can play a role for the team and he will do it really well IMO.
You don't have to have a big body to play regularly. Sure it will help over time but real good players like Mackay can adapt and bring so much else to the team.
I'll leave it you to think of the plethra of players who have and are playing at his weight.
No you don't have to have a big body to play .........but come finals and tough contests history shows that that ability to lay or break a tackle in big games is critical.
Can't remember which team ...but who was that player in a recent grand final who brought down an opposition player charging towards goal to kick the winning goal ?
IMO the lacj of body weight in some of our young players will hurt us in games this season .....Vince (couldn't tackle Franklin on Saturday), Douglas, Mackay....
NikkiNoo
3 Mar 2008, 19:58
impressive
but not a real stand out game compared to other players.
the only other ruckman that actually got a rising star nomination, unlike Griffs performance, had the stats of 5 disposals, 2 marks, 1 tackle and 11 hitouts in their tenth game. :rolleyes:
Can't remember which team ...but who was that player in a recent grand final who brought down an opposition player charging towards goal to kick the winning goal ?
It was Daniel Chick against Sydney.
James_37
3 Mar 2008, 20:15
Mackay is definitely one who I think has the potential to do what capatilist wants, was watching an old match from 1994 today and he plays an extremely similar game to that of Matty Liptak, small, quick, hard at the ball, silky skills and just in the way he moves. I think we will see a lot of him this year.
Tippet as well I think will be one to do this, just his ability to take the pack grabs and if not take them, still remain in the contest is top notch. He hasn't really broken through yet, but he is one, who may in round one even, if placed permanently in the forward 50 and given good delivery, will dominate the air like Modra used to.
Sellar is one who will come on in a bang i think, however IMO we will have to wait till next year to see it, I think he will get maybe 5-10 AFL matches this year and hopefully average 3+goals a game in the SANFL with a couple of big hauls.
I don't think any from this years crop will do this, IMO none of our recruits were really intended for this year, we've been looking towards the future, not just for a quick fix, if we had wanted a first year player to maybe play most if not all games this year we would have got Ebert, but we didn't, we got Dangerfield. We are planning for probably 2010 to have a real tilt at the GF and any premierships along the way are just a bonus.
Eastern Crow
3 Mar 2008, 20:31
impressive
but not a real stand out game compared to other players.
Cameron Wood won a rising star nomination after a 3 possession game, Griffen was very unlucky last year against the tigers
IMO both Tippett and MacKay havew a big game in them, if we play Tippett as a 3rd tall, we will play sides with a short back 6 that Tippett can expose
While MacKay, he will fly under the opposition's radar, this kid is smart enough to cash in early in his career on this lack of attention and respect ftom the opposition, he is unknown to the opposition ;)
Freddy Bassett
3 Mar 2008, 21:00
This thread is spot on and its something I have often wondered. Why dont we have young blokes just explode onto the scene? Knights is the only guy I can think of in recent years. I know Reilly had a huge game in his first half dozen or so but that was quite a while ago now. Im pretty sure Tippett by years end is going to destroy a side, the bulldogs round 1 would be nice.
My money would be on MacKay. I think he's capable of the 20+ disposal game, the only question is whether he will actually get the gametime required to rack them up. Remember Knights played something like 7 minutes on debut. Craig likes to introduce them, slowly bringing them into the game.
I think at some stage this year both Tippet and Sellar will have break out games where they nab 5 goals when we rout someone, however they will also be very inconsistant and have a few goalless games.
I'm not sure if these blokes count but I also think Maric, Moran and Vince will each absolutely star in a few games.
And as others have mentioned Mackay
Capitalist
3 Mar 2008, 21:17
so it seems the general consensus is Tippet or Mackay or maybe Sellar at a stretch.
What I want to know is why it hasn't happened since Peter Vardy really.
so it seems the general consensus is Tippet or Mackay or maybe Sellar at a stretch.
What I want to know is why it hasn't happened since Peter Vardy really.
Reilly on Davey a couple of years back? Rutten and Bock would of had a few as well.
But I do get where you're coming from.
Probably due to the Ayres/Craig philosophy of not throwing youngsters in the deep end and developing them using a softly, softly approach in regards to game time.
BunjiMac
3 Mar 2008, 21:26
Yeah great thread, and I have also often thought the same thing. My money is also on Tippet and Jacky as a long shot, I know he looked out of his depth, but it wouldn't surpise me if he started in the SANFL and really found some form, moved into the senior side with a better understanding of what is required and has a cracking season (hopeful i know :)).
My memory isn't too good, but didn't McLeod kick the game winner against the hawks on debut
Capitalist
3 Mar 2008, 21:35
Reilly on Davey a couple of years back? Rutten and Bock would of had a few as well.
But I do get where you're coming from.
Probably due to the Ayres/Craig philosophy of not throwing youngsters in the deep end and developing them using a softly, softly approach in regards to game time.
Bocks big game came against Revolt, Rutten was a bit different kicked 3 goals and was never heard of until Craig took over, thats when he sought of came to.
as for Mcleod - i don't think it was his first game, but thats a prime example of making a bang, even if it was a few games into his career is was a defining moment that everyone remembers - the only guy to do that recently is VB and his cracked collar bone.
betterthanu
3 Mar 2008, 21:35
Rutten kicked 3 goals with his 1st 3 kicks and Bock destroyed Riewoldt early on.
Edit: ^^^ Snap
Capitalist
3 Mar 2008, 21:38
Rutten kicked 3 goals with his 1st 3 kicks and Bock destroyed Riewoldt early on.
Edit: ^^^ Snap
i don't know how early on it was. But that was his break though match.
RangaInTeal
3 Mar 2008, 21:47
James Moss, with his first ever football preseason under his belt, his football will come on in leaps and bounds! expect a dozen league games this year, but dont expect to much untill next year 2009!
Capitalist
3 Mar 2008, 21:53
James Moss, with his first ever football preseason under his belt, his football will come on in leaps and bounds! expect a dozen league games this year, but dont expect to much untill next year 2009!
we can only hope
MickyCrow
3 Mar 2008, 22:18
My sister in law is friends with him, and apparently he has bulked up a shit load, still smaller than the other boys though.
Still a good start :thumbsu:
Edit: By him I mean Mossy
lets not forget plenty of players explode on the scene, and then get found out fairly quickly soon after.
Eastern Crow
3 Mar 2008, 22:41
lets not forget plenty of players explode on the scene, and then get found out fairly quickly soon after.
IMO, Westhoff from the Power is in danger of falling in to this category
IMO, Westhoff from the Power is in danger of falling in to this category
I hope that they make him put on lots of muscle so any agility or aerobic advantage he has is eroded.
We've had a few slow burners that have turned out pretty well. Tyson Edwards for one. Nathan Bock didn't have his breakout game against Riewoldt till his 20th match in his 2nd year. Reilly, Van Berlo and perhaps Douglas are likewise steady improvers. Scott Stevens was a fringe player with Sydney and then us till 5 years after his debut.
You can always throw the likes of Shane Tongerie, Ben Marsh and Andrew Eccles (though he was pretty much hampered by injuries) as early impact players who didn't really go on with it.
We've also had a few that have had an immediate impact and gone on to good things. Nathan Bassett got 3 Brownlow votes in his 4th game; Burton was runner-up (or 3rd possibly) in the Rising Star with the handy pair of Goodes and Black, and Porps kicked 3 goals on debut and 8 in his first 4 matches.
So all up - early success would be nice for a youngster, but it's no great predictor.
NikkiNoo
4 Mar 2008, 09:13
Marvin, Burton was runner-up. He was beaten by Goodes by two votes I believe it was. Chris Mainwairing stated that he did not give him any votes at all as he never watched any games that Burton played in. Why they allow people to vote on awards like this who never watch all the games is a little amazing to me. :eek: It's why I don't hold the Rising Star award as a true accurate representation of the best young player.
Griffin also got brownlow votes for that game against Richmond.
Eastern Crow
4 Mar 2008, 09:31
I hope that they make him put on lots of muscle so any agility or aerobic advantage he has is eroded.
IMO he needs to build his frame, howeve, he may just have that body type that makes it extremely difficult to do so....
End of last year the kid hit the wall, this year, his form has been ordinary in the trials
I like the lad as he pplays for the Dogs in the SANFL, however, I fear he may struggle moving forward with his career, opposition will try to expose him physically, he will need to build his frame to compete
Eastern Crow
4 Mar 2008, 09:31
We've had a few slow burners that have turned out pretty well. Tyson Edwards for one. Nathan Bock didn't have his breakout game against Riewoldt till his 20th match in his 2nd year. Reilly, Van Berlo and perhaps Douglas are likewise steady improvers. Scott Stevens was a fringe player with Sydney and then us till 5 years after his debut.
You can always throw the likes of Shane Tongerie, Ben Marsh and Andrew Eccles (though he was pretty much hampered by injuries) as early impact players who didn't really go on with it.
We've also had a few that have had an immediate impact and gone on to good things. Nathan Bassett got 3 Brownlow votes in his 4th game; Burton was runner-up (or 3rd possibly) in the Rising Star with the handy pair of Goodes and Black, and Porps kicked 3 goals on debut and 8 in his first 4 matches.
So all up - early success would be nice for a youngster, but it's no great predictor.
Adrian McAdam was the classic 2 season wonder
Vic Crow
4 Mar 2008, 09:57
In a way, the approach that we've had with our last two coaches has basically been to baby young players into the side. Under Craig's reign I can only think of VB as the only one who was given a fair bit of responsibility from the get go apart from Maric or Griffin but that was more out of necessity I would say. I'm also not counting Gill because he was far from a kid when he debuted.
Each player will deal differently with the two main approaches (deep end or ease in). Some relish the challenge and a good example of that is Marc Murphy. Interestingly Carlton opted to ease Bryce Gibbs in last season by playing him in defensive roles in the midfield or in a back pocket. No doubt Ratten will be easing Kreuzer in this year. Time will tell if that approach has worked with Gibbs, but from the outside it appears as though Pagan had made a calculated decision to throw Murphy to the wolves and to ease up on Gibbs. I'm curious more than anything considering Pagan had lost the plot late in his career.
I wouldn't mind seeing Neil Craig showing a bit more diversity in this regard. Like I say, I reckon VB is the only kid he has given a major role to from the start but I reckon there are a few more that would have coped fine, but just weren't really given the chance. He seems relatively unmoved on this policy, but from the way he talks it sounds like he'll give Tippett that chance and I also believe Mackay has commanded it.
I have no smokies to provide. Tippett and Mackay is who I'd be backing. ;)
James_37
4 Mar 2008, 11:09
Suprised the name Graham Johncock doesn't make its way into this thread, the only reason he probably didn't win the rising star award was because he didn't really have that stand out performance to get himself nominated. He was one who immediately stepped into AFL football and belonged, missed only 1 or 2 matches in his first season on our list if my memory serves me well. Whilst he didn't have that one stand out performance, he had plenty of decent ones, which IMO can show a lot more about a player than the 1 really good one. Bock, Rutten, Edwards, Porplyzia, Reilly all had very slow starts but now they have gone on to be/look like being absolute guns, so I guess there's still hope for Jericho yet:)
Tippett is the man, has all the capabilities, and in a game were our midfield dominate (there will be a few of these :thumbsu:) he will bag 5 or more.
Dangerfield next year.
whitey_1975
4 Mar 2008, 11:48
IMO the reason we havent had many players burst onto the scene is because we havent had a lot of top 6 draft picks and later picks (in the majority) we havent been able to pick up that robbie gray, dan peirce type who makes an impact straight away. Up until the last couple of years we havent done well in the recruitment of younger players, but Tippet is a chance as well as McKay and Dangerfield for next year. Im reaonably confident of that:D
IMO the reason we havent had many players burst onto the scene is because we havent had a lot of top 6 draft picks and later picks (in the majority) we havent been able to pick up that robbie gray, dan peirce type who makes an impact straight away. Up until the last couple of years we havent done well in the recruitment of younger players, but Tippet is a chance as well as McKay and Dangerfield for next year. Im reaonably confident of that:D
Umm.. Robert Gray was pick #55 in the 2006 ND. By that time, Adelaide had taken Sellar, Tippett & McKay. Danyle Pearce was pick #16 in the 2005 RD, after Adelaide had used 4 ND selections & 1 RD selection.
These guys weren't top 6 talents, which I agree we have not had access to. They WERE guys who burst onto the scene in a blaze of glory. We had the opportunity to draft both of them, but chose not to.
whitey_1975
4 Mar 2008, 12:31
Umm.. Robert Gray was pick #55 in the 2006 ND. By that time, Adelaide had taken Sellar, Tippett & McKay. Danyle Pearce was pick #16 in the 2005 RD, after Adelaide had used 4 ND selections & 1 RD selection.
These guys weren't top 6 talents, which I agree we have not had access to. They WERE guys who burst onto the scene in a blaze of glory. We had the opportunity to draft both of them, but chose not to.
Thats what im saying, sorry if the england isnt that good:D
gray and peirce were lower draft picks that burst onto the scene something we havent been able to do
And we have never had a top 6 pick that i can remember and the only top 10s we had were duds or dud characters
Thats what im saying, sorry if the england isnt that good:D
gray and peirce were lower draft picks that burst onto the scene something we havent been able to do
And we have never had a top 6 pick that i can remember and the only top 10s we had were duds or dud characters
Yeah. Re-read your OP after hitting the send button. Fair call.
Adelaide's highest ever selection was Angwin at #7. We DID, however, trade away #4 (which subsequently became #2) in the Carey trade. The jury is still out on our latest top 10 selection (Dangerfield), but I do agree with your call on all his predecessors.
The big question though is WHY we have not had these players burst onto the scene? Is it because the players aren't capable of handling that much gametime? Or, is it because Craig insists on introducing them slowly?
whitey_1975
4 Mar 2008, 12:48
Yeah. Re-read your OP after hitting the send button. Fair call.
Adelaide's highest ever selection was Angwin at #7. We DID, however, trade away #4 (which subsequently became #2) in the Carey trade. The jury is still out on our latest top 10 selection (Dangerfield), but I do agree with your call on all his predecessors.
The big question though is WHY we have not had these players burst onto the scene? Is it because the players aren't capable of handling that much gametime? Or, is it because Craig insists on introducing them slowly?
Hey you cant burst onto the scene if you dont get a game hey?
who knows what may have happened?
Mind you Tippet or Sellar may have done that last year if they both werent injured?:(
Hey you cant burst onto the scene if you dont get a game hey?
who knows what may have happened?
Mind you Tippet or Sellar may have done that last year if they both werent injured?:(
Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't.
Here's hoping MacKay, Tippett & Sellar all enjoy break out seasons in 2008.
Capitalist
4 Mar 2008, 13:38
Woulda, coulda, shoulda, didn't.
Here's hoping MacKay, Tippett & Sellar all enjoy break out seasons in 2008.
I agree
I just would love to see someone really "arrive", my money is on Tippet but i'll put a few bobs on Jericho :D
ams4crows
4 Mar 2008, 14:32
mackay for sure!!
I Still can not belive Griff didn't get a nom for that Richmond game he carved it up!!!
Dandy_GO
4 Mar 2008, 15:07
It's bizarre.
Our kids generally perform solidly throughout the season, without starring, only for the rising star nominations to be given to other youngsters who play a single flashy game, then do nothing else. Then when one of ours does pull out a massive game, a rival youngster gets given the nomination for that week, with the reason given that "he's played more consistantly". It's really a joke.
I agree
I just would love to see someone really "arrive", my money is on Tippet but i'll put a few bobs on Jericho :D
Let's hope that Tippett cuts your losses then. :D
Drummond
4 Mar 2008, 16:10
Are we (or have we) going to get a real stand out performance?
I’m referring to the newer guys in the team I’ll even include Griffin, Tippet and Sellar for the sake of it.
For the last few years we have never ever had a new draftee or really anyone come out with a bang, we always get a steady steady approach with a few promising things but no real stand-out game to say “I have arrived”
Do you think we are going to get that from someone this year (or have we had it?)
Or is it going to be another softly softly approach like every other year? And if not why not ?
Because so far, whilst I have seen glimpses of potential we haven’t had anything this season IMHO.
By stand-out I mean a 5-6 goal game by a forward, a 25+ touch game by a Midfielder or the domination of a forward by a defender (less likely considering we are blooding midfielders/forwards) or 20 or so hit outs by a ruckman.
Will we get a guy saying "i'm good enough"
Great thread, I’ve been wondering about the same thing for some time now.
Just look at how many Power youngsters have break out games so quickly into their careers:
Boak: 28 possessions, 2 goals in his 8th AFL game.
Gray: 11 possessions, 4 goals in 3rd game.
Westhoff: 12 possessions, 4 goals in 2nd game.
Thomson: 17 possessions, 2 goals in 9th game.
Pearce: 20 possessions, 1 goal in 10th game.
Pettigrew: 15 possessions, 3 goals in 14th game.
I think a lot of this has to do with the faith shown by the coaching staff. So often we only give our youngsters 50% game time which isn’t the ideal approach. Mark Williams tends to show a great deal of faith in his youngsters and they’ll often get 80%+ game time and even after they have shockers they are still retained in the side. I’d like to see Craig adopt this approach because I think you’ll find the youngsters would develop a lot quicker.
I’ve been a big critic of Douglas over the years but for once I’d like to see him get 85% game time to really show us what he’s made of. If he fails, give him another game and if he still doesn’t deliver then drop him. But IMO you don’t always get an accurate picture of someone’s performance in 50% game time. It can't be good for someone's confidence to spend so long watching from the bench.
I’m growing tired of how long it takes to blood the youngsters, and when they finally are blooded the minimal game time they receive. Unfortunately I can’t see much changing this year because on the weekend Mackay, Tippett and Sellar all played 50% or less when the NAB Cup is the ideal opportunity to give them maximum game time. I think we’ll continue to see the youngsters used sparingly which is a shame.
Here are the 2005 rising star nominees (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/rising_star_nominations?year=2005) (Same year VB and Knights debuted). Had a look at the list and I can safely say VB and Knights are now better players than about half of them. Heck, even Raph Clarke got a nomination.
Here are the 2005 rising star nominees (http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/rising_star_nominations?year=2005) (Same year VB and Knights debuted). Had a look at the list and I can safely say VB and Knights are now better players than about half of them. Heck, even Raph Clarke got a nomination.
Rising star nominations are slanted towards higher draft picks as well in order for the AFL to further promote the success of the first rounders. It's also slanted towards rookie list players so they can go all warm and fuzzy about a Cinderella story.
Players who come in the 2nd/3rd/4th rounds have to work alot harder for their nominations.
Porps_is_HOT_loz
4 Mar 2008, 16:23
Tippitt; Is going to be the NAB Rising Star this year!!
Legend!!:thumbsu:
;)
All the best to Makay and Sellar too:thumbsu:
Just look at how many Power youngsters have break out games so quickly into their careers:
Boak: 28 possessions, 2 goals in his 8th AFL game.
Gray: 11 possessions, 4 goals in 3rd game.
Westhoff: 12 possessions, 4 goals in 2nd game.
Thomson: 17 possessions, 2 goals in 9th game.
Pearce: 20 possessions, 1 goal in 10th game.
Pettigrew: 15 possessions, 3 goals in 14th game.
Porplyzia: 7 possessions, 3 goals in 1st game (or 25 possessions, 1 goal in 9th, his first real game in the guts).
Douglas: 15 posessions, 1 goal in 2nd game.
Knights: 17 possessions in 3rd game.
Maric: 8 possessions, 16 hitouts in 3rd game.
Jericho: 13 possessions, 2 goals in 4th game.
Van Berlo: 16 possessions in 5th game.
Griffin: 10 possessions, 10 hitouts, 2 goals in 8th game.
Reilly: 30 possessions in 12th game.
The only real difference is that our youngsters haven't kicked bags of goals early in their careers, but that's because half of them have been ruckmen or set up in defensive positions in their early careers.
I think Douglas could have a couple 30+ possession games this year. MacKay & Tippett hopefully will put some solid numbers as well. Both fairly unknown players, so hopefully they earn a bit of well-deserved hype.
i don't know how early on it was. But that was his break though match.
Early on in 05 at the dome, the pleasure was mine to see it live:thumbsu:
IddyBiddy
4 Mar 2008, 20:57
Porplyzia: 7 possessions, 3 goals in 1st game (or 25 possessions, 1 goal in 9th, his first real game in the guts).
Douglas: 15 posessions, 1 goal in 2nd game.
Knights: 17 possessions in 3rd game.
Maric: 8 possessions, 16 hitouts in 3rd game.
Jericho: 13 possessions, 2 goals in 4th game.
Van Berlo: 16 possessions in 5th game.
Griffin: 10 possessions, 10 hitouts, 2 goals in 8th game.
Reilly: 30 possessions in 12th game.
The only real difference is that our youngsters haven't kicked bags of goals early in their careers, but that's because half of them have been ruckmen or set up in defensive positions in their early careers.
:thumbsu: That's a pretty interesting comparison.
Adrian McAdam was the classic 2 season wonder
au contraire. one season.
The jury is still out on our latest top 10 selection (Dangerfield),
no its not!!!
the jury has not even been convened yet :)
MotleyOne
5 Mar 2008, 11:52
I know he's only young, but i think Sellar has been very disappointing for you guys - particularly for such a high draft pick. And (obviously) i base that on SANFL form not AFL. I saw him play about half a dozen SANFL games in the flesh last year and he was largely ineffectual. He looked miles off being a good SANFL player let alone an AFL player.
Grey-ham Cornes raves about him, but i i reckon ive seen him play 5 mins of decent football.
Id be really interested to see how the other players picked around him in the draft performed last year. How many have actually played games and how many havent. Maybe someone can drop some names as a comparison.
But i have to admit i havent seen any games this year. How has his pre-season form been? Am i being unfair or do you think he is a worry?
I know he's only young, but i think Sellar has been very disappointing for you guys - particularly for such a high draft pick. And (obviously) i base that on SANFL form not AFL. I saw him play about half a dozen SANFL games in the flesh last year and he was largely ineffectual. He looked miles off being a good SANFL player let alone an AFL player.
Not an unfair call. By all accounts he was carrying a groin injury for most of last year, probably osteitis pubis (though the club has never said as much). This would go a long way to explaining his poor performance.
Id be really interested to see how the other players picked around him in the draft performed last year. How many have actually played games and how many havent. Maybe someone can drop some names as a comparison.
Sellar was taken at #14. The 5 taken either side of him are as follows:
9. David Armitage (StK) - debuted R8, played 3 games, rest of the year in VFL.
10. Nathan J. Brown (Col) - yet to debut, 1 game in VFL magoos, rest of year in VFL.
11. Andrejs Everitt (Foots) - debuted R14, played 8 games.
12. James Frawley (Melb) - debuted R9, played 9 games.
13. Jack Riewoldt (Rich) - debuted R9, played 8 games, best effort 3 goals.
15. Daniel O'Keefe (Syd) - yet to debut, missed half the year with injuries.
16. Mitchell Brown (WCE) - debuted R1, played 5 games, will miss 2008 with ACL injury.
17. Shaun Hampson (Carl) - debuted R21, played 2 games, looks like being their #1 ruckman this year.
18. Leroy Jetta (Ess) - debuted R1, played first 4 games, injury/VFL for rest of year.
19. Shaun Grigg (Carl) - debuted R14, played 5 games.
But i have to admit i havent seen any games this year. How has his pre-season form been? Am i being unfair or do you think he is a worry?
Pre-season form has been MUCH better than 2007.
He was one of our standout performers against Collingwood in Dubai, kicking 3 goals. Freo & Hawthorn have treated him with more respect, not giving him the same freedom, and he has struggled since.
Would expect him to debut at some stage in 2008.
His form in 2007 was definitely a concern. However, his change in attitude (and subsequent improvement in performance) over the pre-season has definitely been encouraging. Nowhere near as worried as I was last year.
crows4always
6 Mar 2008, 05:02
Yeah great thread, and I have also often thought the same thing. My money is also on Tippet and Jacky as a long shot, I know he looked out of his depth, but it wouldn't surpise me if he started in the SANFL and really found some form, moved into the senior side with a better understanding of what is required and has a cracking season (hopeful i know :)).
My memory isn't too good, but didn't McLeod kick the game winner against the hawks on debut
I have always thought it was Maccas first game,it was at the northern end in the rain from the members side pocket and I reckon I still have the tape of the game.
IMO MacKay will be the player really stands out and earns a rising star nom, with Tippet also a chance.
I have always thought it was Maccas first game,it was at the northern end in the rain from the members side pocket and I reckon I still have the tape of the game.
IMO MacKay will be the player really stands out and earns a rising star nom, with Tippet also a chance.
It was macca's 2nd game. He played his first against Melbourne.
Capitalist
6 Mar 2008, 12:59
It was macca's 2nd game. He played his first against Melbourne.
The kind of think i'd love to see from one of our new recruits !
Sellar has definitely shown improvement but I wouldn't be surprised if we don't really see much of him till later in the year. Remember he played a lot of footy in the Glenelg 2nds in 2007.
Tippet looks good as does MacKay but it will all depend on how much of a chance Craig gives them.
Unfortunately I can’t see much changing this year because on the weekend Mackay, Tippett and Sellar all played 50% or less when the NAB Cup is the ideal opportunity to give them maximum game time. I think we’ll continue to see the youngsters used sparingly which is a shame.
I agree with this which would be a major shame for both the club and my SuperCoach team (I keep swapping Tippet and Sellar as emergencies, can't decide!) :p
can someone tell me why we care if someone has a mtthew Kluzek type debut???
all this debate, and no actual reason why we should give a toss.
Dandy_GO
6 Mar 2008, 21:02
can someone tell me why we care if someone has a mtthew Kluzek type debut???
all this debate, and no actual reason why we should give a toss.
Dumb reason, but so the uneducated Victorian masses will shut up about how we have no decent youngsters, perhaps?
To be honest, I really don't know - it would just be nice for our young players to get the recognition they deserve, and it seems the only way to do that is through one-off 30 disposal, 10 goal efforts; NOT consistant team play.
Realistically, we should just be happy that we do have youngsters who focus on the role they are given within the team and gradually make a position their own, rather than a bunch of frontrunners who burn out after 2 or 3 games, never to be heard from again.
yeah you're right. it is as much about victorian recognition, but i can't say i give a fat rats clacker myself.
we have our policies about how we like to develop young players, and these are not compatible with the rising star award. and I think it wouldn't be a good move, to try and change our policies to fall in line with a subjective, highly dubious award that is not a great indicator of future success.
your Dean Polo's have great debuts, because they are given free reign, and opposition coaches don't even know what number they're wearing ;) very little about this, says that he will (or won't) go onto being a good player. it just says if you leave him alone, he can get some of it. which I'd hope is true of everyone.
bursting onto the scene, isn't really the idea. it's a long game. if we need to change our approach (and maybe we do?) it won't be to get more guys making temporary early impacts.
Capitalist
7 Mar 2008, 14:04
don't get me wrong, I respect your post but to make the assumption that an early impact means your going to have an small career is ludicrous
Revolt, J Brown, Judd (etc etc) all had big impacts early and look at them now hardly flash in the pans are they ?
I’m not correlating early success to a long career; I’m just saying it would be nice to see for a change.
jackster83
7 Mar 2008, 14:30
I think some players benefit from being chucked in the deep end early on: Smart, Hart and Ricciuto all looked the goods early and went on to have magnificent careers, whereas others take more time (Bassett, Reilly, Rutten).
The concern for us and has been for a while now is that players can't break into the side until they are 23/24. It may mean that we hang on to youngsters who just aren't good enough for too long (I know of a certain number 30 who fits this description). Or maybe they aren't getting enough match fitness and experience from the SANFL to be able to take their game to the next level.
Porplyzia and Mckay are the 2 young players on our list who look to have the composure, skills and footy smarts to become top quality players at AFL level. VB is already a gun.
Wayne's-World
7 Mar 2008, 16:23
I watched the Hawthorn game yet again :o and took particular notice of Tippett.
Now whilst he didn't get that many possessions ....what was an eye opener was the stuff in packs he did.
He was busting packs, throwing out handballs from the bottom of packs .....he was using his body magnificently in thos packs to push Hawthorn players off the ball ......and he was as nimble as a midfielder moving around the ground.
He has the perfect blend of 200cm height, a leap, ......a super competitive mentality .....great speed for a 200cm player and now a natural footy brain.
Now there's plenty of players doing those things .....however not as instinctively as Tippett ....who has played less than 30 games in his life and still hasn't played an AFL game.
I can't honestly think of a weakness with him other than needing to get game experience.
His marks are not sticking AP ....but his leap is amazing and those grabs will come.
Here's my prediction:
Tippett will be a tier 1 performer for the Crows ......yes an AFL superstar.
Of course not this season ....but you just do not see players do what he is doing with so little experience ......and it's all instinctive.
Van Berlo & Knights will be very good players ......but I rank Tippett & Porplyzia in the elite bracket.
Griffin .......he's not going to be too far behind!
don't get me wrong, I respect your post but to make the assumption that an early impact means your going to have an small career is ludicrous
er, that's about 180 degrees south of what i am saying. I am saying there is very little to no correlation between a big starting performance and long term performance. and that much of the supposedly hyped burst out performances aren't worth a hill of beans long term.
I’m not correlating early success to a long career; I’m just saying it would be nice to see for a change.
you kinda are though, aren't you? and to be honest I do understand, it would be nice to have cyril rioli creating lots of feelgood buzz for us right now, but in the end... it's a long game.
Wayne's-World
7 Mar 2008, 17:45
er, that's about 180 degrees south of what i am saying. I am saying there is very little to no correlation between a big starting performance and long term performance. and that much of the supposedly hyped burst out performances aren't worth a hill of beans long term.
.
Spot on ......how many shooting stars have there been that have just as quickly disappeared off the scene
Much prefer a longer apprenticeship ......learn your footy .....earn your games
The AFC has had a great history on that basis
Capitalist
8 Mar 2008, 23:40
Spot on ......how many shooting stars have there been that have just as quickly disappeared off the scene
Much prefer a longer apprenticeship ......learn your footy .....earn your games
The AFC has had a great history on that basis
i can feel the winds changing.......:D
Carl Spackler
9 Mar 2008, 08:44
er, that's about 180 degrees south of what i am saying. I am saying there is very little to no correlation between a big starting performance and long term performance. and that much of the supposedly hyped burst out performances aren't worth a hill of beans long term.
Agree that having a big, headline-grabbing game isn't important but I think that genuine quality players just look like they belong from the start. There is an assuredness about what they do. They adapt to the pace of the game quickly. They cope with the pressure without it adversely affecting their skill level. They don't seem overawed by the occasion or the names they are against (or at least disguise it well!).
Even in Shane Warne's 1/151 in his first test he still beat the outside edge plenty of times.
Agree that having a big, headline-grabbing game isn't important but I think that genuine quality players just look like they belong from the start. There is an assuredness about what they do. They adapt to the pace of the game quickly. They cope with the pressure without it adversely affecting their skill level. They don't seem overawed by the occasion or the names they are against (or at least disguise it well!).
Sounds like you're describing Mackay there, Carl. :thumbsu:
Tippet is my tip. He'll be our first Rising Star (not that I'll hold my breath;))
One things for certain; we need at least one Rookie/ New Draftee to figure in our best players regularly if we are to make the finals.
Credit where credit's due my man. Well spotted!! And let's hope that he can maintain that level of intensity in the season proper. The thing I really like about young Kurt is that he really has no airs about him and just gets on with the job. No over the top celebrating or niggling his opponent, just goes about it hard and tough at the ball. It tends to be this type of player who doesn't get the 'flash i the pan' syndrome and then rapidly disappear.