View Full Version : The Cousins Talk Gets Tedious, But...
The Royal Sampler
9 Mar 2008, 10:03
http://www.foxsports.com.au/story/0,8659,23341249-23211,00.html
This is kinda hard to ignore.
Cousins turns to Malthouse
By Tony Sheehan
March 09, 2008
FALLEN West Coast player Ben Cousins held secret talks with Collingwood coach Michael Malthouse last week in a bid to resurrect his shattered football career.
Speaking exclusively to The Sunday Telegraph, the 2005 Brownlow Medallist confirmed he had met with Malthouse.
"Yes, I had coffee with my former coach," Cousins said.
Asked if he would recommence his 238-game career at Collingwood, the 29-year-old said: "I've got no comment to make on that."
Cousins spent nine days in Melbourne before returning home to Perth.
He also took time to catch up with his former Eagles team-mate and premiership captain Chris Judd.
Cousins has been deregistered by the AFL for the 2008 season for bringing the game into disrepute, but is not banned from playing lower levels of football, meaning he could play at VFL level this year.
However, he must provide medical proof that he has overcome his drug addiction. If he does, the six-time All-Australian could be playing again within months.
Cousins would not be drawn on a return date, but it is understood he has been in intensive training, and hoped to make a decision before the football season starts.
At a press conference last month, Cousins said he was "not sure how I'm going to feel until probably the (AFL) games start", but added that he would like to "at least train with a WAFL side or a VFL side just to see how the body ticks over, if I thought that's what I wanted to do next year".
Collingwood president Eddie McGuire said he knew of no plan for Cousins to return to the game with assistance from the Collingwood Football Club, and suggested Malthouse would be the best person to contact about the nature of the meeting. Malthouse could not be contacted.
McGuire has previously indicated his club would be interested in resurrecting Cousins' career.
Malthouse coached West Coast when Cousins made his AFL debut in 1996, and guided the champion midfielder's career for four seasons until leaving to take over at Collingwood for the 2000 season.
"He is one of my favourite footballers and a terrific person," Malthouse wrote in The Australian last year after Cousins' drug battle became public.
Cousins was sacked by the Eagles last October after a string of controversies, including his shirtless arrest on drugs charges, which led to a court appearance and then a humiliating backdown from West Australian police who dropped both charges.
Storm in a tea cup really. MM was a mentor to the young Cousins, and having a coffee with Ben is something MM would have done with any of the kids he took under his wing that had fallen on tough times.
To be honest I just dont want to get my hopes up. Cousins is a pure genius on the field.
Would love to see him in B&W. I guess those in the know would have to weigh up possible risks, last thing we want is our name bought into disrepute.
What do you think?
smiddaz123
9 Mar 2008, 10:14
I have mixed feelings about that.
The Royal Sampler
9 Mar 2008, 10:17
I think it's fair to assume that if it was just a catch up for coffee, Cousins would have answered "it was just a catch up for coffee".
If he were to spend a year playing in the VFL for us, I wonder if other clubs would try to draft him after having a look at him, or would he be looked upon like Fraser Gehrig last year?
Word is he will play VFL for us for zilch and see how it goes. I think we have preference if he is playing for our VFL team in recruiting him for the AFL ..... but geez it's a risk.
MM having coffee with Ben very publically says something, not sure what ~ but it says something.
I'm not sure about him coming to us, he would be the difference between the VFL team winning a Premiership or not thats for sure as he would be a class of player NO other VFL team would have.
But I've lived with an Ice user .... I'd be nervous cause they don't just change.
Word is he will play VFL for us for zilch and see how it goes. I think we have preference if he is playing for our VFL team in recruiting him for the AFL ..... but geez it's a risk.
MM having coffee with Ben very publically says something, not sure what ~ but it says something.
I'm not sure about him coming to us, he would be the difference between the VFL team winning a Premiership or not thats for sure as he would be a class of player NO other VFL team would have.
But I've lived with an Ice user .... I'd be nervous cause they don't just change.
How so?
How so?
Disregard. It is incorrect.
I just thought we did thats all, I'm sure I read it somewhere.
The Royal Sampler
9 Mar 2008, 10:43
No, we definitely don't. However rival clubs may be loathe to take a punt on him, whereas we will have been able to have a close look at him for a year. That would make us at least the frontrunners to pick him up if we decided to do so.
Having him play for the VFL side seems a relatively low-risk, high-reward proposition.
If he stays clean, the young guys will definitely benefit from having someone with his work-ethic and skill around the place. If not, kick him off the team, not much lost.
sunnyTEE
9 Mar 2008, 10:51
I would love him at the pies. I love Cousins.
Sure it would be great for our VFL side, but i don't believe that Melbourne is the best place for Ben Cousins to be right now.
There's far too much temptation here to send him off the rails again and let's face it, we all want him to get better in the end, and then think about his footy.
Sure it would be great for our VFL side, but i don't believe that Melbourne is the best place for Ben Cousins to be right now.
There's far too much temptation here to send him off the rails again and let's face it, we all want him to get better in the end, and then think about his footy.
That's such a naive view.
There is no more or less temptation in any city (or town) in Australia. The temptation comes from inside, not outside.
That's such a naive view.
There is no more or less temptation in any city (or town) in Australia. The temptation comes from inside, not outside.
When you're an addict, you only need the wrong people to push you in the wrong direction and you're screwed. To think that you can overcome it on your own is being naive. You sound very high and mighty up there on your pedestal.
Perth and Melbourne are the two places where he would struggle, due to his links and associations in each town.
Do you really think if he went and played country footy for a while, or up north somewhere, that it would be same as staying in Melbourne and playing VFL for Collingwood?!?!?!
When you're an addict, you only need the wrong people to push you in the wrong direction and you're screwed. To think that you can overcome it on your own is being naive. You sound very high and mighty up there on your pedestal.
Perth and Melbourne are the two places where he would struggle, due to his links and associations in each town.
Do you really think if he went and played country footy for a while, or up north somewhere, that it would be same as staying in Melbourne and playing VFL for Collingwood?!?!?!
Head out of the sand please!! There is drugs everywhere. If he wanted them, he'd get them....Especially being 'Ben Cousins'.
This is one of those situations where you just don't know. I would love to see him playing in the B&W of the great Collingwood Football Club, but only if he is completly clean. I would have no problems with him playing for the VFL side for a year then us taking a look at him for 2009.
I am still thinking how ever that it was just a chat between old friends. Cousins spoke to Carlton captain Chris Judd too, does that mean he is going to play at Carlton? Don't get ahead of yourselves.
Do you really think if he went and played country footy for a while, or up north somewhere, that it would be same as staying in Melbourne and playing VFL for Collingwood?!?!?!
Going to a "quiet" country town would drive him to seek out something to ease the boredom quicker than being in Melbourne were he would have people around him. It would soon become clear if he started hanging around those types again, IMO he is better in a big city than a small little country town.
FadeAway
9 Mar 2008, 12:58
Andrew demetriou was on SEN this morning talking about this, he said its a possability cousins could be playing with the pies resevers for 2008
Welcome to Collingwood Ben Cousins.
Cousins would be the second best midfielder to play for Collingwood in recent times, very close behind Buckley IMO.
... last thing we want is our name bought into disrepute.
What do you think?
It's a good question.
I'd say that Collingwood is significantly more concerned with winning matches than it is with its reputation.
Recent opportunities for Collingwood to take decisive action to "uphold the magpie name" have amounted to "spin" rather than substance. Therefore, Collingwood would sign Cuz and happily absorb any negative impact upon its reputation because:
1. Its reputation isn't crash-hot in the first place and any impact would only damage what is already damaged, and
2. Cuz would improve on-field performance.
It won't be an easy thing to achieve though, securing his signature. Cousins will re-enter the AFL via either draft, and Collingwood will probably be a fair way back in the queue this year.
For what it's worth, I sincerely hope Cuz progresses in his recovery and makes whatever decisions are best for him in the big picture. If that has him playing AFL footy again, good luck to him. It won't be an easy road but he has the attributes to play at an elite standard for a couple more years surely.
The Royal Sampler
9 Mar 2008, 13:34
Cousins would be the second best midfielder to play for Collingwood in recent times, very close behind Buckley IMO.
3rd best. You forgot Toovey.
3rd best. You forgot Toovey.Oh how did I forget, Yes third best for sure.
King Woodie
9 Mar 2008, 14:19
It's a good question.
I'd say that Collingwood is significantly more concerned with winning matches than it is with its reputation.
Recent opportunities for Collingwood to take decisive action to "uphold the magpie name" have amounted to "spin" rather than substance. Therefore, Collingwood would sign Cuz and happily absorb any negative impact upon its reputation because:
1. Its reputation isn't crash-hot in the first place and any impact would only damage what is already damaged, and
2. Cuz would improve on-field performance.
It won't be an easy thing to achieve though, securing his signature. Cousins will re-enter the AFL via either draft, and Collingwood will probably be a fair way back in the queue this year.
For what it's worth, I sincerely hope Cuz progresses in his recovery and makes whatever decisions are best for him in the big picture. If that has him playing AFL footy again, good luck to him. It won't be an easy road but he has the attributes to play at an elite standard for a couple more years surely.
Yeah, it is an interesting one. If he were to play for our reserves, and then we looked at redrafting him (and assuming we finished high on the ladder) it is true that our pick would be later, but these types of drafting decisions have a way of ending up with the club he wants to go to. Recycled players in the preseason draft who have decided on a club generally end up with that club. Although this is Ben Cousins we are talking about, and his form would be quite exposed in the VFL, I still think we would get him ie "coll or nothing'.
I would take him into our midfield for free in a heartbeat, and back our leadership team to be able to mitigate any negative influence.
If he joins Collingwood I'd go close to ignoring footy for a couple of years, can't stand the pr*ck!
Parallel Andy
9 Mar 2008, 14:48
I would love to have Cousins at Collingwood.
How likely is it to happen though, seriously?
There will be other clubs with draft picks before us who will take him.
It is very unlikely that it will happen...unfortunately.
The Royal Sampler
9 Mar 2008, 14:53
Slightly different version of the article for PerthNow.
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23342675-5005401,00.html
An involvement with the Magpies would put the club in a strong position to recruit Cousins in 2009, via the draft.
Get on Cousins for SuperCoach in '09! :D
MagpieGirl_13
9 Mar 2008, 15:23
I wonder if he was having an ice coffee.......? :p:D
Ok, jokes aside.
I wouldn't read too much into this, they had coffee.... it's not like they had a huge meeting at The Lexus Center with Eddie & the rest of them.... it was coffee at a coffee shop!!!!
I personally don't want him at Collingwood! Yeah, he may be a good player but I really don't like him, I don't know if I could trust him not to go back to his old ways. He may have said that he's all better now but I still don't want him. Bad example for others.
We don't get anything out of having a player in the VFL play for us apart from obviously being able to see him every week and know what he's like.
I wouldn't mind him playing for Collingwood because if he is picked I'm confident that Mick and Co. and Eddie and the board would have looked into it as much as he can.
I still would think he's an idiot and everything. And I wouldn't really stick up for him if he gets booed playing for us, but I would respect what he's gone through.
I think it's still a very low chance he'll play for us in 09 as I doubt the coaching staff and board owuld want to take the risk.
magpies42
9 Mar 2008, 15:32
the best way to get noticed and get positive publicity is to be seen as being drafted by the pies....
i wouldntw ant a junky in our team
bucksisbest
9 Mar 2008, 15:40
We'll see how it all plays out . We are probably probably the best club for Cousins to go to , as we are the least worried about external stuff like social commentators and criticism ,and more interested on what the club knows and values from an internal point of view.
Ofcourse he has serious drug problems and would be strictly monitored and would have to adhere to it all. But this is all hypothetical , he might run around for Richmond next year or never play AFL again as far as we all know.
The finalisation for the Collingwood VFL list is March 10 , tomorrow , FWIW.
I think Collingwood is both the best and worst place for Cousins. It would be good because he would have great support behind him and he would have the clubs PR on his side, but, at the same time playing for Collingwood could be a bad thing. Playing for Collingwood brings with it alot of pressure, from media and supporters of our club and the others. Would he be able to handle the pressure?
Dundalis
9 Mar 2008, 16:22
The only thing I want from Cousins is his footballing ability. If we could **** the rest of him off it would be sweet because my god we need a top quality midfielder perhaps more than any other position on the field. But we don't need him so much that it outways the damage the off-field Cousins could bring to the club. There would have to be irrefutable proof that Cousins could stay away from any illegal substance for good. I've no doubt Malthouse would not let him anywhere near our group if he thought Cousins was still unstable, regardless of how highly he rates him as a person. I'd probably trust Malthouse and Ed on the decision they make either way with Cousins. We've been burned enough in the past for them to have learnt to make the right decision.
Dundalis
9 Mar 2008, 16:26
I think Collingwood is both the best and worst place for Cousins. It would be good because he would have great support behind him and he would have the clubs PR on his side, but, at the same time playing for Collingwood could be a bad thing. Playing for Collingwood brings with it alot of pressure, from media and supporters of our club and the others. Would he be able to handle the pressure?
Pressure is handled via the support network. I've no doubt we'd have a better support network than West Coast. It would still be a factor though, and I'm sure in the event they did decide to recruit Cousins next season it would be on one year contracts and no more, giving them an easy out should he regress.
Pie eyed
9 Mar 2008, 18:58
I think it would be fair to say a fit, healthy, drug free Cousins would be welcome at any club.
I can't see why Collingwood should be any different.
Under the right circumstances he would be an asset.
Welcome to Collingwood Ben Cousins.
With open arms.
There is no better way to find out if he is really on the rehab trail and ready to come back to the AFL than to play with our VFL team and use our training facilities.
Hopefully our assistance in his rehabilatation will result in other teams leaving him for us.
Its a long shot... But I would love to have him play in the Black and White as long as the obvious does occur.
Go Cuz in Black and White
kbutcher24
9 Mar 2008, 20:49
I think Collingwood is both the best and worst place for Cousins. It would be good because he would have great support behind him and he would have the clubs PR on his side, but, at the same time playing for Collingwood could be a bad thing. Playing for Collingwood brings with it alot of pressure, from media and supporters of our club and the others. Would he be able to handle the pressure?
he has played his entire career in a pressure environment coming from a 2-team town (WA)
id love to see him wear the black and white in '09
he has played his entire career in a pressure environment coming from a 2-team town (WA)
id love to see him wear the black and white in '09
Yeah, and he couldn't handle the pressure, he went to drugs as a release did he not?
I would also love to see him in the black and white, but i would only want to see him in the great Collingwood jumper if he is drug free.
Pressure is handled via the support network. I've no doubt we'd have a better support network than West Coast. It would still be a factor though, and I'm sure in the event they did decide to recruit Cousins next season it would be on one year contracts and no more, giving them an easy out should he regress.
:thumbsu::thumbsu:
Rowdy and Bucks have given the idea the thumbs up.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23347075-19742,00.html
By Friday Ben Cousins will be playing for Collingwood in the VFL
Andrew demetriou was on SEN this morning talking about this, he said its a possability cousins could be playing with the pies resevers for 2008
****ed if I know what that has to do with Andrew Demetriou or the AFL.
The Royal Sampler
10 Mar 2008, 09:58
Rowdy and Bucks have given the idea the thumbs up.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23347075-19742,00.html
By Friday Ben Cousins will be playing for Collingwood in the VFL
I read that too... it's certainly starting to look as though Ben might be in Black and White this year. :eek:
Good news I must say. It'd be a great sight, Cousins in the black'n'white. Let's face it, if he played for Collingwood we'd be a significantly better chance of a premiership. End of story. Let's hope his rehab goes well and he warms to Collingwood through the VFL, and vice versa. :thumbsu:
MagpieGirl_13
10 Mar 2008, 19:36
My Dad text me this afternoon & said that Ben was going to play for us..... apparently he heard on the radio.
I'm not completely sold on him though, there is just something about him..... but there is no doubt that when he is fighting fit he would be an awesome player, one that we could use on our team.
I know it doesn't mean a lot but wasn't he named in Mik Sheean's top 50 or something.....?
The idea will probably have grow on me.....:cool:
Bay Pie
10 Mar 2008, 20:37
Don't forget the work ethic the guy has on the training track and his leadership and ability on the field.
This would have to be a great learning environment for guys like Stanley and Cook to play alongside this guy.
If he plays for our ressies he will be monitored quite heavily. Eddie wouldn't risk him bringing the club down.
Remember how much Willy lifted when Buckley played for them last year.
Cousins would have a similar effect, obviously not as much as a one off appearance from Bucks, but a whole season playing along side a 6 time all australian for the kids on the brink of AFL... Pies for the VFL/ AFL double!
Magpie_Matty
10 Mar 2008, 23:29
imagine the 2009 centre
Fraser Pendles Daisy Cousins
I cant wait
imagine the 2009 centre
Fraser Pendles Daisy Cousins
I cant wait
What about Toovey?
Pie eyed
10 Mar 2008, 23:42
****ed if I know what that has to do with Andrew Demetriou or the AFL.
I would think that Demetriou and the AFL both have a heavily vested interest in seeing one of the highest profile players of the last decade "rehabilitated" and back in the fold.
If the Pies have the nuts....then get him down here.
Even if he only plays one VFL season the young fellas will benefit.
M-Train
11 Mar 2008, 01:15
If we get him for free then yes definately...
However, if we have to give up draft picks, then NO
CENTERMAN
11 Mar 2008, 09:34
Out of spite Carton will probably take him earlier anyway. Judd will have an influence as well.
zorbadunde
11 Mar 2008, 09:41
What about Toovey?
ahh how could we forget toovey,
Swanny36
11 Mar 2008, 10:00
i dont know about this i think he is a fantastic player and i dont think that there would be a too bigger risk on having him on the VFL Collingwood list but then we will have to have another look at him at the end of this season and then we could make a decision on where he is at..
sydney eagle
11 Mar 2008, 10:09
Out of spite Carton will probably take him earlier anyway. Judd will have an influence as well. Exactly. If Collingwood want to get Ben Cousins they had better start tanking from round one, because every other club (apart from West Coast perhaps) will want him too !
wce4premiership
11 Mar 2008, 11:07
So is the vfl deadline gone?
Nothing happened?
So is the vfl deadline gone?
Nothing happened?
This Friday mate.
ShepBoy
11 Mar 2008, 11:26
1. Why let Cousins play for our team to get him in readiness to play for another AFL team next year?
2. Work ethic is one thing, introducing our young players to his drug contacts is not what I believe is a positive thing for our club.
If Collingwood go for him they are sillier than eve I thought they are.
1. Why let Cousins play for our team to get him in readiness to play for another AFL team next year?
2. Work ethic is one thing, introducing our young players to his drug contacts is not what I believe is a positive thing for our club.
If Collingwood go for him they are sillier than eve I thought they are.
1. Because he will greatly benefit the younger players in his attitude to the game, his football knowledge and just having someone of his stature training with them.
2. Please stop watching Today Tonight or wherever you get this stuff from. "Introduce them to drug contacts"? Every player on the list would have easy access to drugs if they wanted to find them. Most probably have a mate or two who do drugs. The idea is to educate them on the dangers, and hope they make the right decision.
Snag Breac
11 Mar 2008, 12:24
Collingwood is probably the one club that could handle Cousins. It has the resources, it has his former mentor, MM, and it's more closely scrutinised by the media than any other club. Cousins couldn't put a foot wrong without Australia knowing about it,and worse - Eddie.:eek:
I think we should get him if we can. It may be his only real hope of rehabilitation.
sirlothie
11 Mar 2008, 12:54
Heh in the VFL Jason Cloke is a star, Ben Davies was a star, Ben Cousins would absolutely destroy them and I'd have a wad of cash on Collingwood winning the VFL flag in their first season back as a standalone and what better way to give our new reserves a flying start than to win a flag in our first season... even if that's all we get out of it and he goes somewhere else after that, it's worth it.
He will get more people to go to our 2nds matches, let's face it we'd have an AFL superstar playing in our 2nds for the whole year!
We'd be in a very nice position to secure him after he got to know us, a box seat really to snaring him for our AFL list and if that doesn't work out we'd definitely get our money's worth and then some with him in the VFL in many aspects.
A key to all this of course is that he has curtailed his drug taking but if so, it's a good opportunity for us and a great opportunity for Ben so we should make it happen. :):thumbsu:
I don't believe Ben is a lost cause.
Appin Vet
11 Mar 2008, 13:13
What have we got to lose???
A year in our 2's with the prospect of having him in the centre square '09 would give us our own version of the Lions Fab4. Remember how they would rip our blurters open. It would be nice to reciprocate the favour. Wouldn't it? Imagine this- Fraser/Wood Pendlebury Thomas Cousins.
Someone needs to trial him and it may as well be us. We would have the inside rail on medical info, his mood and most importantly his demeanour.
Welcome Cuz!!
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 13:40
Exactly. If Collingwood want to get Ben Cousins they had better start tanking from round one, because every other club (apart from West Coast perhaps) will want him too !
Don't kid yourself.
No-one is using a first-round pick on a 30 year-old with a known substance abuse problem, who was sacked from his last club. If you think that any club would need to tank to get a high enough pick to take Cousins, you may just have the very same substance abuse problem.
Cousins will beable to demand what team he goes to and i think the AFL will help him get there a club isnt going to take a chance on him if they think he doesnt want to be there that could lead to him becoming very unhappy and not giving a **** if he wants go to Collingwood next seaosn he will be going to Collingwood.
smiddaz123
11 Mar 2008, 15:06
TBH I don't think clubs would touch him unless he really wanted to go to their club.
With his track record, you don't want him there unless he appears to be totally committed to the club. If he doesn't want to go to a club, I don't like the chances of him performing well there.
If he said 'I only want to go to Collingwood' we should be able to take him with a 3rd or 4th round.
pendles
11 Mar 2008, 15:08
TBH I don't think clubs would touch him unless he really wanted to go to their club.
With his track record, you don't want him there unless he appears to be totally committed to the club. If he doesn't want to go to a club, I don't like the chances of him performing well there.
If he said 'I only want to go to Collingwood' we should be able to take him with a 3rd or 4th round.
Spot on ... pending Captain Pendles' sign-off.
fossman
11 Mar 2008, 15:50
There is always the possibility they were just having a coffee.
Part of some drig rehabilitation schemes is for the recovering addict to go and reconect with the positive forces in their lives. It's all about reminding them that they do have a wide support network/mentors/friends etc that aren't trying to sell them crack and to help them reconect with the "mainstream".
I hated Cousins as an Eagle but I'd love him as a Magpie
2. Work ethic is one thing, introducing our young players to his drug contacts is not what I believe is a positive thing for our club.
If Collingwood go for him they are sillier than eve I thought they are.
please that is just plain dumb. you think the club would let that happen? we would only pick him up if we were 100% certain he would stay clean. How long was he going hard on drugs at west coast and how many of their young players did he lead to drugs? i would say not many.
if anything having him around the club would be a better reminder to the young kids of what can happen if you let things get out of control.
Cousins will beable to demand what team he goes to and i think the AFL will help him get there a club isnt going to take a chance on him if they think he doesnt want to be there that could lead to him becoming very unhappy and not giving a **** if he wants go to Collingwood next seaosn he will be going to Collingwood.
I hope your right. Lets go with that story.
Vote 1. Cousins a Pie in 09
If he said 'I only want to go to Collingwood' we should be able to take him with a 3rd or 4th round.
Any club that thinks it's a chance for a flag in the short time Cousins has available at the top level would take him with whatever pick it took to secure him (maybe not pick one, which is earmarked for export to Fiji).
No offence mate, but if you think Cousins is going to fall to round three or four, you're deadset dreamin. He's a Rolls Royce midfielder who, if he manages to get back to playing AFL, will have risen to the highest levels of the game twice, the second time against all odds really.
It'll take a pick in the first ten to get him. It'll take pick 1 in the pre-season draft if he can come back through that option.
Why will Cousins be able to demand which team he will go to? He won't. It doesn't work like that. [Here's where I expect ridiculous claims of the club's legal challenge to the legality of the draft system and theoretical restraint of trade].
Any club that thinks it's a chance for a flag in the short time Cousins has available at the top level would take him with whatever pick it took to secure him (maybe not pick one, which is earmarked for export to Fiji).
No offence mate, but if you think Cousins is going to fall to round three or four, you're deadset dreamin. He's a Rolls Royce midfielder who, if he manages to get back to playing AFL, will have risen to the highest levels of the game twice, the second time against all odds really.
It'll take a pick in the first ten to get him. It'll take pick 1 in the pre-season draft if he can come back through that option.
Why will Cousins be able to demand which team he will go to? He won't. It doesn't work like that. [Here's where I expect ridiculous claims of the club's legal challenge to the legality of the draft system and theoretical restraint of trade].
Judd did!
You do understand the difference between a trade and a draft pick ?
You do understand the difference between a trade and a draft pick ?
You do understand how ridiculous it is to suggest that a 30-yo footballer with a drug problem will get picked in the top 10 of the draft, right?
sydney eagle
11 Mar 2008, 17:55
Don't kid yourself.
No-one is using a first-round pick on a 30 year-old with a known substance abuse problem, who was sacked from his last club. If you think that any club would need to tank to get a high enough pick to take Cousins, you may just have the very same substance abuse problem. The only person here with a substance abuse problem is you if you think that other clubs won't take Cousins if they have the opportunity to do so.
sydney eagle
11 Mar 2008, 17:59
Judd did! Circumstances were different. It was a case (for West Coast) of take Carlton's offer or get nothing. In the Cousins case West Coast get nothing anyway and Cousins has to go into the draft to join a club. Do you think that every other club would pass on Cousins so that Collingwood will be able to draft him ? I very much doubt that ! As I said, to get Cousins Collingwood will have to either tank or trade to get high enough in the draft to get him.
thatday
11 Mar 2008, 18:01
Circumstances were different. It was a case (for West Coast) of take Carlton's offer or get nothing. In the Cousins case West Coast get nothing anyway and Cousins has to go into the draft to join a club. Do you think that every other club would pass on Cousins so that Collingwood will be able to draft him ? I very much doubt that ! As I said, to get Cousins Collingwood will have to either tank or trade to get high enough in the draft to get him.
Not gonna happen.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 18:01
The only person here with a substance abuse problem is you if you think that other clubs won't take Cousins if they have the opportunity to do so.
I'll bet you and JohnD a slab of premium beer each that Cousins will not be selected in the first round of the National Draft in 2008.
Note that I will expect you to pay up if you lose.
So it's a virtual slab that doesn't really exist ?
Given that I don't drink alcohol, a non-existant virtual slab would be worth about as much as the real mccoy to me so I can't lose.
If you agree to those terms, I'll bet you that it'll take a first round pick to draft Cousins.
sirlothie
11 Mar 2008, 19:02
So it's a virtual slab that doesn't really exist ?
Given that I don't drink alcohol, a non-existant virtual slab would be worth about as much as the real mccoy to me so I can't lose.
If you agree to those terms, I'll bet you that it'll take a first round pick to draft Cousins.
You want to bet a virtual, non-existent slab?
Log off now and see somebody...
You want to bet a virtual, non-existent slab?
Log off now and see somebody...
Two if you like.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 19:07
So it's a virtual slab that doesn't really exist ?
Given that I don't drink alcohol, a non-existant virtual slab would be worth about as much as the real mccoy to me so I can't lose.
If you agree to those terms, I'll bet you that it'll take a first round pick to draft Cousins.
So what would be worth it for you then?
Just because you don't drink doesn't mean that you can't put your money where your mouth is.
So what would be worth it for you then?
Nothing we can agree to now is going to make it worth the energy for me to try to remember to dig this up in 8 months' time and work out whether I owe someone I've never met something insignificant or whether he owes me.
Honestly, is that the kind of thing that floats your boat? Over a difference of opinion on BigFooty? If that's the case, you're barking up the wrong tree. You'd do better to offer terms to your mate who reckons Cousins is a realistic draft proposition with a fourth round pick. There's some easy money for you.
I'll stick to my point though ... that Cousins would be a guild-edged sure thing for anyone with a late-ish first rounder who thinks they're a flag chance in the next two or three years. Think about it, we'll all know for sure whether his recovery from addiction is a passing phase or whether he's committed to it by season's end. If he nominates for the draft, it means he's on track. Pies fans, largely, are excited by the very thought of him playing in B&W. You don't reckon Hawthorn, Port, Bris, North, Saints fans are thinking the exact same thing? Of course they are, and behind closed doors a few football departments would have floated the same hypothetical too.
Lockyer24
11 Mar 2008, 19:23
Im happy to have him on our AFL list if the time comes, but I see no point in wasting our resources on him thi syear if we have no guarantee he will be ours at the end of the year.
Im happy to have him on our AFL list if the time comes, but I see no point in wasting our resources on him thi syear if we have no guarantee he will be ours at the end of the year.
Wouldn't be a bad PR result to be linked with the "Cousins, my way back from pergatory" story.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 19:34
Honestly, is that the kind of thing that floats your boat?
Actually, taking money from suckers floats my boat considerably, and I turn a good profit from doing so in various forms. If you don't wish to back up your opinion, that's your prerogative.
Actually, taking money from suckers floats my boat considerably, and I turn a good profit from doing so in various forms. If you don't wish to back up your opinion, that's your prerogative.
Your sig tends to suggest your idea of a good profit and my idea of insignificant seem to overlap somewhat. Still, good luck to you if you can find punters silly enough to gamble on BigFooty.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 19:56
Your sig tends to suggest your idea of a good profit and my idea of insignificant seem to overlap somewhat. Still, good luck to you if you can find punters silly enough to gamble on BigFooty.
My sig remains primarily for humiliation purposes. You seem to be doing a pretty decent job of humiliating yourself without my intervention. Let's hope your Hawks spend their first-rounder on Cousins this year, and see how that pans out for you. Some people never learned from the Carey -> Adelaide deal :o
My sig remains primarily for humiliation purposes. You seem to be doing a pretty decent job of humiliating yourself without my intervention. Let's hope your Hawks spend their first-rounder on Cousins this year, and see how that pans out for you. :thumbsu:
Geez TRS, no need to get bent out of shape about it.
Just how do you figure I'm humiliating myself ? Maybe you think I'm over-valuing Cousins' worth to a potential flag contender ... but that's not the same as humiliating myself.
Compare that with you big noting yourself about gambling on BigFooty and getting resentful about a $20 bet with a nobody who (surprise surprise) didn't pay up. Honestly mate, worry about yourself before you take my inventory for me.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 20:16
Not bent out of shape, nor resentful.
CattyBossDog welched on a bet, however small, and no doubt due to wanting to avoid paying for said bet hasn't posted since 12th October. Apparently the amount was significant enough for the poster in question if they went to the extent of leaving/getting a new ID. Suits me either way as he/she was a rubbish poster. The only cost to me is that I don't go to the effort of changing my sig. Ho noes.
I don't think I've in any way big-noted myself about gambling on BigFooty, in fact were you to take me up on the bet, it would be my second and you can see how the first went. That doesn't mean I don't make a significant profit from gambling in other forms and guises however, and you can make whatever assumptions you like based on my sig, it doesn't change my EV.
:thumbsu:That's great mate.
FWIW I don't reckon I've humiliated myself either, but I guess we're going to have to agree to disagree on some things.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 20:45
Fair enough, let's get back on topic. :thumbsu:
Obese Arachnid
11 Mar 2008, 21:38
Of course Benny can end up at the PIES for a low pick.
Scenario....... (step one)Benny plays for Pies AFL. He plays well, he's doing well (personally). Both Pies & Benny are happy with each other.
(step two) Benny wants to play for the Pies.
(step three) Benny nominates for the PSD, not the National.
(step four) Benny makes a statement to the affect"I have a problem. Collingwood have given me the opportunity & support......& I think it's in my best interest to continue with this club to fight my addiction. I respectfully request no one else picks me.
Job done he's a Pie!
(personally I don't want him....I'm just saying it can be done)
swiftdog
11 Mar 2008, 21:47
Wasn't Cousins deregistered by the AFL?? Would this mean that we could possibly get him through some sort of loophole before he nominates for either draft, similair to our NSW academy players?? I'm no expert on this could someone make things clear.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 22:21
Of course Benny can end up at the PIES for a low pick.
Scenario....... (step one)Benny plays for Pies AFL. He plays well, he's doing well (personally). Both Pies & Benny are happy with each other.
(step two) Benny wants to play for the Pies.
(step three) Benny nominates for the PSD, not the National.
(step four) Benny makes a statement to the affect"I have a problem. Collingwood have given me the opportunity & support......& I think it's in my best interest to continue with this club to fight my addiction. I respectfully request no one else picks me.
Job done he's a Pie!
(personally I don't want him....I'm just saying it can be done)
Can't be done, conduct prejudicial to the draft.
Having said that, it could be done implicitly, via rival clubs' recruiters speaking to Cousins' agent.
Cousins has no reason to wait for the PSD, he's been deregistered by the AFL. The reason that experienced players normally nominate for the PSD instead of the National Draft is that they are not normally delisted by their club before the deadline for National Draft nomination. This will not be an issue in Ben's case.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 22:22
Wasn't Cousins deregistered by the AFL?? Would this mean that we could possibly get him through some sort of loophole before he nominates for either draft, similair to our NSW academy players?? I'm no expert on this could someone make things clear.
1. Yes
2. No.
There unfortunately is not a never-ending supply of loopholes that exist solely for us to pick up players. :(
If theres a loophole there, Ed will find it.
Ben has to come out in the press this year and fully admit his problem, he also needs to show his worth to the AFL through the press. Comments like everyone at Collingwood has really helped me get back on track... I couldnt have done it without them... They are both mentors and buddys and have helped me turn around my life, blah, blah, blah.
The question is will other clubs then risk picking him up after this showing of support towards Collingwood and it then being a case of @ Collingwood they kept me in check, got me back on track as soon as he goes to another club risk him falling off the rails!
If he plays with our VFL side this year it will be alot less of a risk for us to pick him up than anyone else... and the VFL side will have a 6 time All Australian and Brownlow medalist playing in the midfield all year - (the experience alone will be priceless for our youngsters, let alone a VFL Flag).
If he comes to the VFL side and falls off the wagon - his career will be 100% finished. Collingwoods reputation will not be tarnished from this. Its a no lose situation. Personally I am extremelly excited about the prospect of the whole thing.
Pie eyed
12 Mar 2008, 00:09
Try this scenario out for size and probability:
Collingwood secure the services of Ben Cousins for season 2008 in our VFL side, over the course of which he proves himself to be clean, fit and back in form onfield.
Collingwood AFL have another good year (or better).
The AFL happy with Cousins recovery and future prospects elect to re-register him and he nominates for a draft, any draft for season 2009.
How would every other club in the competition feel about Collingwood picking up Cousins, possibly for a modest sum and bolstering a mid-field which by 2009 could be bristling with talent?
I think if Collingwood want Cousins to play in a Black and White AFL jumper it will be a far from painless exercise. This is not to say it would be impossible but they would have to work very hard to get him and it would be fairly expensive in terms of what we would have to give up, current players and draft picks wise.
That said....let's try and get him.
ShepBoy
12 Mar 2008, 00:19
1. Because he will greatly benefit the younger players in his attitude to the game, his football knowledge and just having someone of his stature training with them.
2. Please stop watching Today Tonight or wherever you get this stuff from. "Introduce them to drug contacts"? Every player on the list would have easy access to drugs if they wanted to find them. Most probably have a mate or two who do drugs. The idea is to educate them on the dangers, and hope they make the right decision.
Yeah, we show the young players that people of poor character are rewarded.
Dont think so.
Drug contacts and criminal contacts. Give me a break.
Waste of time. Let some other club suffer.
ShepBoy
12 Mar 2008, 00:20
What have we got to lose???
A year in our 2's with the prospect of having him in the centre square '09 would give us our own version of the Lions Fab4. Remember how they would rip our blurters open. It would be nice to reciprocate the favour. Wouldn't it? Imagine this- Fraser/Wood Pendlebury Thomas Cousins.
Someone needs to trial him and it may as well be us. We would have the inside rail on medical info, his mood and most importantly his demeanour.
Welcome Cuz!!
We have no access to him for 2009 ahaead of any other club.
We will never get him unless you are saying we will finish in 16th spot this year.
B&W Army
12 Mar 2008, 01:18
Magpie listing hope for Cousins (http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23347075-19742,00.html)
Michael Horan | March 10, 2008 12:00am
And so the countdown begins..