View Full Version : Ruck Stocks
AsianWithAFro
9 Mar 2008, 18:02
I know I may sound pessimistic but we still have a very weak ruck stock. I am very very very Happy we got Wood but we still only have 3 ruckman on the list. Hopefully this won't haunt us this year. That is unless they are hoping Thoolen can become a ruckman so the situation isn't that bad.
The Royal Sampler
9 Mar 2008, 20:17
I am a believer that the recruiters see Thoolen as a ruckman. Why else would Hine go on about Thoolen Snr. being 200cm, and the Collingwood website pointing out that Thoolen had grown 2cm since the state screening?
If he were merely to be a 196cm KP defender, the potential for further growth would be virtually irrelevant.
Having said that, our ruck stocks are thin. Thoolen is bottom-aged and still growing, clearly not ready. Keeffe is a soccer convert who doesn't even join the rookie list until the end of season 2008. Bryan is a band-aid solution, he's slow as molasses, too short for rucking and has no engine whatsoever.
We are definitely vulnerable in the ruck, but at least Josh and Cam are better than Josh/Guy or Josh/Bryan, so our best should be better than it was last year.
Godfrey Jones
9 Mar 2008, 20:56
I know I may sound pessimistic but we still have a very weak ruck stock. I am very very very Happy we got Wood but we still only have 3 ruckman on the list. Hopefully this won't haunt us this year. That is unless they are hoping Thoolen can become a ruckman so the situation isn't that bad.
:p
ok these have to start stopping soon, haha
Harries08
9 Mar 2008, 23:15
I have just posted on another thread that the royal sampler knows whats going on and yet again he has his fingr on the pulse. Thoolen played as a ruckmen this year for the Bendigo Pioneers and did a ver servicible job. I noticed today in th heraldsun that tere was an article about the prospective number one drarft pick an how tall he is yes 196 the same as thoolen same age really. Our boy will grow and become a dominant ruckman under the tutalidge of Josh Fraser. The best news for us is wood yes Collingwood.
You can have Guy Richards back!
I have watched him the last 2 weeks for the mighty black ducks in the WAFL (pre-season games) and fair dinkum......Can't contest a ball against a 180cm rover, in the air. That potential number 1 ruck that the Sun was on about, I presume is Naitanui. Well, he's showing this guy how rucking should be done. Fair dinkum, you lot were lucky to get rid of him and I fear we have done our dough on him.
Is there any chance he can get better? Or am I going to be tearing my hair out all year?
Our ruck stocks in terms of injury coverage for this year are about average AFL level. 3 is about average for rucks.
According to prospectus the amount of ruckmen on the list:
Coll: 3 + 1 Utility that can/could play ruck (Thoolen)
Bulldogs: 3+ 1 Utility
Freo: 2 + 1 Utility
Geelong: 4
Melbourne: 5
Essendon: 3
Port: 5
Richmond: 4
Saints: 5 + 1 utility
Syd: 4
WCE: 2
Carlton: 5 + 1 U
Bris: 3 (Including McDonald who retired)
Haw: 5
Kang: 3
Adel: 3
The Royal Sampler
10 Mar 2008, 10:03
According to your figures, 3.68 is the average if you're not counting utilities. So, based on that logic, we're short on rucks if Thoolen isn't a ruckman, and close to average if he is.
lenny&carl
10 Mar 2008, 13:23
Well, we've got better ruck depth than Brisbane anyhow. :)
The Royal Sampler
10 Mar 2008, 13:31
Not really, they'll probably promote Joel Tippett (Kurt's brother, but a ruckman) for Beau McDonald and be in pretty much the same spot as us.
Not really, they'll probably promote Joel Tippett (Kurt's brother, but a ruckman) for Beau McDonald and be in pretty much the same spot as us.
Mitch Clark could also be used as a ruckman.
vinnie_vegas69
10 Mar 2008, 14:15
According to your figures, 3.68 is the average if you're not counting utilities. So, based on that logic, we're short on rucks if Thoolen isn't a ruckman, and close to average if he is.
What if Thoolen is .68 of a ruckman? And then if Ben Reid is .12 of a ruckman, Anthony Rocca is .15 of a ruckman, and Shannon Cox is .5 of a ruckman, then we've got an even 4 on the list ;)
Not really, they'll probably promote Joel Tippett (Kurt's brother, but a ruckman) for Beau McDonald and be in pretty much the same spot as us.
Mitch Clark could also be used as a ruckman.
Joel Tippett's only 194cm, though, and Mitch Clark is much more a forward than a ruckman.
Would that really be much different than if we played Toby Thoolen and/or Ben Reid in the ruck?
Bay Pie
10 Mar 2008, 14:20
Our ruck stocks in terms of injury coverage for this year are about average AFL level. 3 is about average for rucks.
According to prospectus the amount of ruckmen on the list:
Coll: 3 + 1 Utility that can/could play ruck (Thoolen)
Bulldogs: 3+ 1 Utility
Freo: 2 + 1 Utility
Geelong: 4
Melbourne: 5
Essendon: 3
Port: 5
Richmond: 4
Saints: 5 + 1 utility
Syd: 4
WCE: 2
Carlton: 5 + 1 U
Bris: 3 (Including McDonald who retired)
Haw: 5
Kang: 3
Adel: 3
I laughed at that.
C Cloke, Hackland, Hampson (2nd yr player-promising), Kreuzer (1st yr player-promising), Jacobs (rookie-2nd yr player) and I assume utility is O'Hailpin (who knows)
You can have Guy Richards back!
I have watched him the last 2 weeks for the mighty black ducks in the WAFL (pre-season games) and fair dinkum......Can't contest a ball against a 180cm rover, in the air. That potential number 1 ruck that the Sun was on about, I presume is Naitanui. Well, he's showing this guy how rucking should be done. Fair dinkum, you lot were lucky to get rid of him and I fear we have done our dough on him.
Is there any chance he can get better? Or am I going to be tearing my hair out all year?
Nup, he's shit, we spent seven years on him.
I laughed at that.
C Cloke, Hackland, Hampson (2nd yr player-promising), Kreuzer (1st yr player-promising), Jacobs (rookie-2nd yr player) and I assume utility is O'Hailpin (who knows)
Ackland, Cloke, Hampson, Kreuzer, A. O'hAilpin were the 5 and I think Setanta was the utility, rookies don't count.
Reid and Cox are emergency options, as is Rocca and Thoolen. I know T.Cloke has spent time in the ruck and he wasn't that good, but he would be an alright option since his engine has developed although obviously he is too valuable at CHF.
Timmy from Thomastown
10 Mar 2008, 15:32
We're better placed than we've ever been in the past 15 years, ASSUMING Wood turns out to be all we want. Our only problem is our first change ruck is a bit of a dud and the rest of our ruck options are really key position players. So we need Fraser and Wood fit and firing.
But as backups we have the following to choose from apart from Bryan (in order or who is most likely this season to perform ruck duties)
Cloke
Reid
Thoolen
Cox
Brown
Rocca (only in bursts)
Thats not bad. This time last year our fifth ruck option was probably Wakelin so with some drafting trading and player develoment we've improved our stocks.
Plus the young kid on our rookie list as a blue sky investment.
If Thoolen develops properly he'll scale the ladder and make the delistment of Bryan a formality.
The Royal Sampler
10 Mar 2008, 15:34
What if Thoolen is .68 of a ruckman? And then if Ben Reid is .12 of a ruckman, Anthony Rocca is .15 of a ruckman, and Shannon Cox is .5 of a ruckman, then we've got an even 4 on the list ;)
Alright, just as long as it's even. :D
Joel Tippett's only 194cm, though, and Mitch Clark is much more a forward than a ruckman.
Would that really be much different than if we played Toby Thoolen and/or Ben Reid in the ruck?
According to the Lions player profiles at the moment, he's 0 cm which would make it especially difficult for the young man. However even at such diminutive stature, it's the position he's played in through juniors, which gives him an advantage over Reid and Thoolen. I see your point though.
vinnie_vegas69
10 Mar 2008, 16:20
According to the Lions player profiles at the moment, he's 0 cm which would make it especially difficult for the young man. However even at such diminutive stature, it's the position he's played in through juniors, which gives him an advantage over Reid and Thoolen. I see your point though.
Huh? Thoolen was just about a full time ruck for the Pioneers...
Thoolen currently has OP, yes?
Timmy from Thomastown
10 Mar 2008, 16:26
Thoolen currently has OP, yes?
Growing pains.
Growing pains.
Actually, someone at the club who you would expect should know such things, thinks he will grow another 2 cm to 3 cm
Puts him about 198/199 cm in a year or so.
Timmy from Thomastown
10 Mar 2008, 16:32
Actually, someone at the club who you would expect should know such things, thinks he will grow another 2 cm to 3 cm
Puts him about 198/199 cm in a year or so.
Thats what I was hinting at.
stui magpie
10 Mar 2008, 16:59
Actually, someone at the club who you would expect should know such things, thinks he will grow another 2 cm to 3 cm
Puts him about 198/199 cm in a year or so.
I assume once we have a kid listed, we can send him for Xrays or whatever to find out how much more they'll grow (if at all)
Timmy from Thomastown
10 Mar 2008, 17:02
I assume once we have a kid listed, we can send him for Xrays or whatever to find out how much more they'll grow (if at all)
just tell them to bend over and count their rings
I assume once we have a kid listed, we can send him for Xrays or whatever to find out how much more they'll grow (if at all)
Yep, I guess so
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 13:35
Huh? Thoolen was just about a full time ruck for the Pioneers...
Ah... yeah... good point. Gives him an advantage over Reid then. :o
We have 1 up and comer who is unproven as yet, one injury prone ruckman who hasn’t won in the ruck very often and when he does get a tap it is rarely decisive and we have Bryan is a dud. Speculation about anyone lese is just that and regardless of the foundation behind it 2008 won’t see any other viable option.
IF we get very lucky, Fraser will remain fully fit and improve his ruckwork, Wood will be a top quality ruckman and usurp Fraser and we won’t need o call on Bryan. If we are unlucky Bryan will be rucking with someone like Cox. If the aim is a flag then we have to get very lucky.
The immediate solution is to give Travis Cloke some ruck time whenever we can afford to take him away from CHF and try and make sure he also gets his share of bench rest. Not the greatest solution but we can’t afford to hit September without options. If Bryan ends up rucking in September then it isn’t bad luck it is bad list management.
Obese Arachnid
11 Mar 2008, 16:00
Thoolen played ruck quite a bit last year. In fact one of Kruezers few down games last year (some would say ONLY down game) was oppossed to Thoolen.
I wonder if this influenced our drafting?
Thoolen played ruck quite a bit last year. In fact one of Kruezers few down games last year (some would say ONLY down game) was oppossed to Thoolen.
I wonder if this influenced our drafting?
Someone else told me that, but I wasn't sure how accurate it was.
I have heard that Thoolen has a lot of "mongrel" in him and doesn't mind the really rough stuff
Obese Arachnid
11 Mar 2008, 16:30
Someone else told me that, but I wasn't sure how accurate it was.
I have heard that Thoolen has a lot of "mongrel" in him and doesn't mind the really rough stuff
I read that in an article when we drafted Thoolen. Unfortunately, I don't even remember if it was in the HUN or Inside footy or what.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 17:47
I read that in an article when we drafted Thoolen. Unfortunately, I don't even remember if it was in the HUN or Inside footy or what.
You're sure you're not thinking of Luke Casey-Leigh? He had a BOG while playing on Kreuzer for the Dragons.
Obese Arachnid
11 Mar 2008, 18:01
You're sure you're not thinking of Luke Casey-Leigh? He had a BOG while playing on Kreuzer for the Dragons.
Perhaps you're right, I did think it was Thoolen. If I am wrong, I blame which ever paper I read it in. Obviously they got it wrong, it couldn't possibly be my memory.:D
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 18:09
Thoolen played two games against the Knights (for whom Kreuzer played).
In the latter of those two games, Thoolen was named third best for the Pioneers, and had 14 hitouts, 15 possessions and a goal. In that same game, Kreuzer was BOG for the Knights, had 11 hitouts but 27 disposals and 2 goals. I have no idea whether they played on each other though.
In the earlier game, Thooen wasn't named in the best, but Kreuzer was third in the Knights' best.
Obese Arachnid
11 Mar 2008, 20:05
Thoolen played two games against the Knights (for whom Kreuzer played).
In the latter of those two games, Thoolen was named third best for the Pioneers, and had 14 hitouts, 15 possessions and a goal. In that same game, Kreuzer was BOG for the Knights, had 11 hitouts but 27 disposals and 2 goals. I have no idea whether they played on each other though.
In the earlier game, Thooen wasn't named in the best, but Kreuzer was third in the Knights' best.
So the paper was wrong!!!:D Hey, it's all good. So Casey-Leigh beat Kruezer. Either way we win!
In Hine we trust.
The Royal Sampler
11 Mar 2008, 20:08
In Hine We Certainly Do ;)
Pie eyed
12 Mar 2008, 23:27
What if Thoolen is .68 of a ruckman? And then if Ben Reid is .12 of a ruckman, Anthony Rocca is .15 of a ruckman, and Shannon Cox is .5 of a ruckman, then we've got an even 4 on the list ;)
Joel Tippett's only 194cm, though, and Mitch Clark is much more a forward than a ruckman.
Would that really be much different than if we played Toby Thoolen and/or Ben Reid in the ruck?
Really like that logic.
Why not surgically "connect" Leon Davis to Bryan's shoulder.
Have to be worth 1.58 ruckman.
Pie eyed
12 Mar 2008, 23:33
Alright, just as long as it's even. :D
According to the Lions player profiles at the moment, he's 0 cm which would make it especially difficult for the young man. However even at such diminutive stature, it's the position he's played in through juniors, which gives him an advantage over Reid and Thoolen. I see your point though.
Has a massive vertical leap and really high arches obviously.
The Royal Sampler
13 Mar 2008, 08:34
That's what I thought when I read it, too. :D
vinnie_vegas69
13 Mar 2008, 10:59
Really like that logic.
Why not surgically "connect" Leon Davis to Bryan's shoulder.
Have to be worth 1.58 ruckman.
I like it, but I think it might be a waste of Leon - Maybe we could stick Toovey up there... He's not going to be missed as "regular Toovey"...