View Full Version : Great news for Fitzroy fans...
About time?
Fitzroy history on the Record
9:20 PM Tue 18 March, 2008
Fitzroy's tradition continues
After a number of years negotiating with the AFL, the Vodafone Brisbane Lions are pleased to announce that Fitzroy’s historical statistics will be recognised by the AFL in its official publications and records from 2008 onwards.
Following the merger in 1997, the Lions have always acknowledged the statistical records of both the Bears and Fitzroy in its club history and now the AFL have followed suit.
The amendment is certain to please the Fitzroy faithful who – together with the Club - have long queried the absence of Fitzroy’s stats in the AFL Record match-day programme.
This adjustment is another step towards having the Lions’ rich history more accurately represented outside the club.
Click here to view a sample pdf of how the club’s records will be displayed in the AFL Record in Season 2008 and beyond.
Excellent! An extra eight premierships for the Lions in the official records.
TheBrownDog
19 Mar 2008, 11:30
Excellent news.
Pathetic that it took this long though.
MSB ROYS
19 Mar 2008, 11:49
Amazing it took so long.
lionbear
19 Mar 2008, 11:52
Fantastic news, long wait, but we got there in the end.
TheBrownDog
19 Mar 2008, 11:58
The drawn out nature of the process seems even more ridiculous when you consider that its not like there was a significant opposition to it happening, in fact, there was almost unanimous consensus that it was the right thing to do.
The AFL simply kept putting it in the 'too hard basket'. :thumbsd:
Chasing the Dream
19 Mar 2008, 12:00
Awesome news.
About time for sure.
It is small things like this that will help mend some bridges with some of the other old Royboys.:thumbsu:
Good on the Lions for persistingwith this one.
Walsh Bay
19 Mar 2008, 12:05
So Chris Johnson's (for example) games total is now properly recognised as having played all of them at the one club?
And Kevin Murray is the club games record holder?
thats' great.
TheBrownDog
19 Mar 2008, 12:18
So Chris Johnson's (for example) games total is now properly recognised as having played all of them at the one club?
And Kevin Murray is the club games record holder?
thats' great.
Yep.
Its not every day you wake up to discover your club has 8 more premierships and 8 more Brownlow medals. :D
Chasing the Dream
19 Mar 2008, 12:29
So Chris Johnson's (for example) games total is now properly recognised as having played all of them at the one club?
And Kevin Murray is the club games record holder?
thats' great.
We at this stage have to assume so.
The Lions Website offers nothing on the games record part of it, but I like most would like to think that it does connect the two now.
The only muddy part in the water would be how many times has The Lions played Essendon for instance? From 87-96 will they count both Bears and Lions games???
I have no idea at the moment on that.
Thanks for asking though.
RangaInTeal
19 Mar 2008, 13:29
So the precedent has been set, Now for Port's!
Click here to view a sample pdf of how the club’s records will be displayed in the AFL Record in Season 2008 and beyond.
Vidman - do you have a link to the sample pdf?
joshhem
19 Mar 2008, 13:36
So the precedent has been set, Now for Port's!
Kinda different mate
So the precedent has been set, Now for Port's!
Can Geelong then count its VFA records??? That would add an extra 9 Premierships for us. :D:D:D
Vidman - do you have a link to the sample pdf?
When I checked, they had forgotten to create the link.
lionbear
19 Mar 2008, 13:50
The drawn out nature of the process seems even more ridiculous when you consider that its not like there was a significant opposition to it happening, in fact, there was almost unanimous consensus that it was the right thing to do.
The AFL simply kept putting it in the 'too hard basket'. :thumbsd:
I think the people who worked in the Stats department thought it was too hard to do, so always tried to block the AFL doing it. But I could be wrong.
Chasing the Dream
19 Mar 2008, 13:53
So the precedent has been set, Now for Port's!
Port Adelaide Magies did not merge with the Port Adelaide Power did they??:confused:
Just checked myself... the link is not there.
Caraboo
19 Mar 2008, 14:31
I think the people who worked in the Stats department thought it was too hard to do, so always tried to block the AFL doing it. But I could be wrong.
From memory the AFL have not just done the Bris Lions/Bears stat's thing.
In the beginning it was either all 3 like now, or Brisbane Lions only - I can't remember which. And then a year or 2 into the merger the AFL suddenly adopted this Bris Lions/Bears policy for some unexplained reason.
Good to see it finally fixed!
RangaInTeal
19 Mar 2008, 15:25
Port Adelaide Magies did not merge with the Port Adelaide Power did they??:confused:
No Port Adelaide Football Club merged with the AFL to become the Port Adleiade Power! Same as the Brisbane football club merged and became the Brisbane Lions!
Chasing the Dream
19 Mar 2008, 15:33
No Port Adelaide Football Club merged with the AFL to become the Port Adleiade Power! Same as the Brisbane football club merged and became the Brisbane Lions!
So Port Adelaide merged with the AFL:eek:
As far as I am concerned, Port Adelaide Power and Port Adelaide Magpies are two different teams that play in two different competitions.
Your argument is flawed. Back to the POWER board now.
The Brisbane Bears and Fitzroy merged to form the Brisbane Lions. All teams played in the same competition, stats should reflect that.
notting18
19 Mar 2008, 17:00
Great news! I would think it is more great news for Brisbane Lions fans than just for Fitzroy fans though...
We are all one big family!:D
vosstheboss
19 Mar 2008, 17:07
good stuff
ReluctantLion
19 Mar 2008, 18:06
About time?
The AFL have been working overtime on this development :rolleyes:
Great news however.
armagedon ready
19 Mar 2008, 18:09
Wonderful news.
royboy2
19 Mar 2008, 18:18
It is great news, here is the link as mentioned earlier
http://lions.com.au/Portals/0/lions_docs/AFL%20Record%20HeadtoHead.pdf
MaroonBoy
19 Mar 2008, 19:54
As a Fitzroy barracker who now follows the Lions, I must say I find this new statistical presentation very disappointing and flawed.
Certainly its great to see Fitzroy's record finally included in some form but I feel its very wrong to incorporate the Brisbane Bears stats into the overall Brisbane record. Simply, a new club was created in 1997 so why should either the Bears or Fitzroy's record be included in the overall total? It's the Brisbane Lions who won 3 premierships in 2001-2003, not the Bears or Fitzroy.
As far as I'm concerned, it's great to acknowledge the 'pedigree' of the merged entity, but let's limit the stats of the LIONS to the post-1996 period.
MaroonBoy:thumbsd:
I have to say that I agree with you Maroon Boy......AFL MUST acknowledge the records of BOTH teams prior to 1996......After that, its the record of the Brisbane Lions only....it is now a seperate team to both Bears and Fitzroy......As such, they have won 3 flags...
TheBrownDog
19 Mar 2008, 20:07
As a Fitzroy barracker who now follows the Lions, I must say I find this new statistical presentation very disappointing and flawed.
Certainly its great to see Fitzroy's record finally included in some form but I feel its very wrong to incorporate the Brisbane Bears stats into the overall Brisbane record. Simply, a new club was created in 1997 so why should either the Bears or Fitzroy's record be included in the overall total? It's the Brisbane Lions who won 3 premierships in 2001-2003, not the Bears or Fitzroy.
As far as I'm concerned, it's great to acknowledge the 'pedigree' of the merged entity, but let's limit the stats of the LIONS to the post-1996 period.
MaroonBoy:thumbsd:
I agree. The Lions certainly take this approach (see the record sections of the most recent season guide for evidence).
The AFL however take a different approach, hopefully they go the extra step eventually.
All three should be separate or all should be merged.
KingofthePride
19 Mar 2008, 20:13
Certainly a step in the right direction. Should also be considered that the Record doesnt have a great deal of room in that little column to outline the history of 3 clubs.
At least the AFL are starting to take note of the supporters wishes regarding these stats.
A small step, but progress none the less.
MaroonBoy
19 Mar 2008, 20:30
Certainly a step in the right direction. Should also be considered that the Record doesnt have a great deal of room in that little column to outline the history of 3 clubs.
At least the AFL are starting to take note of the supporters wishes regarding these stats.
A small step, but progress none the less.
With the greatest of respect, King, I totally disagree.
I do not want Fitzroy or the Bears record sullying the Lions record. The Lions haven't won 11 premierships, don't have 11 Brownlow medals, nor do they hold the (dubious) honour of being on the receiving end of the biggest winning score ever.
What this does is to continue to perpetuate a myth, while alienating certain supporters. :thumbsd:
With the greatest of respect, King, I totally disagree.
I do not want Fitzroy or the Bears record sullying the Lions record. The Lions haven't won 11 premierships, don't have 11 Brownlow medals, nor do they hold the (dubious) honour of being on the receiving end of the biggest winning score ever.
What this does is to continue to perpetuate a myth, while alienating certain supporters. :thumbsd:
i think we need three different records. even though the merger was the best for both clubs and football in general in this state,(don't think it won't happen again)and i enjoy watching the lions playing in Fitzroy jumpers, the history should be seperated.but from 97 both clubs should enjoy success to-gether.
notting18
19 Mar 2008, 21:16
I would prefer 3 seperate records, but I pose this question - Is it not better to have a complicated mixture of the 3 records, or have a bastardised system which would classify Chris Johnson as a two club player, while have Michael Voss as a one cluber?
Warwick
19 Mar 2008, 22:17
So the precedent has been set, Now for Port's!
Dear God.
Surprised you could say that with a straight face.
Dylan12
20 Mar 2008, 01:12
12 years overdue, but great news nonetheless. Does this apply to win/loss records and all other awards?
In the Melbourne and Perth papers over the last 12 years, they list our head-to-head results as Brisbane from 1987 to the present.
As a merged club, all head-to-heads and all other records should only reflect from 1997 onwards. Anyone know what the status is on that ridiculous anomoly?
ANGEL DARK
20 Mar 2008, 01:21
So the precedent has been set, Now for Port's!
We are talking VFL/AFL here not SANFL.Bit of a different situation dont you think
RangaInTeal
20 Mar 2008, 16:02
We are talking VFL/AFL here not SANFL.Bit of a different situation dont you think
you see, WE (Port fans) feel it isn't all that different to your side, we merged, with the AFL's ideas, to become Port Adelaide Football Club, est. 1887 not 100% sure of the year but near enough! The Port Adelaide Magpies changed their name to the Port Adeliade Magpies! Port Adelaide Football Club moved to the AFL... As far as port supporters are concerned you can only beat the opposision, no ones fault we weren't in Victoria, If your going to count VFL detalis for the clubs count ours aswell, Fitzroy still exist, South Melbourne still exist, Port Adelaide sohuld still exist! We are over the Black and White Debate, we had to compromise, but there are alot of great players we feel should be recognised if the likes of Coleman and Renyolds are! We only ask what we passionately believe is fair! Fos Williams, Russell Ebert, Brian Cunningham, John Cahill just to name a few! We are not trying to rip any one off, we just want to be recognised! and to be honest, it dosen't make any difference except a bit of extra ink used when printing ou the AFL record and etc.
Don't get me wrong this is not a you shouldn't have your History carried through, I think you should! This is a please aknoledge our proud history and tradition!
TheBrownDog
20 Mar 2008, 16:07
you see, WE (Port fans) feel it isn't all that different to your side, we merged, with the AFL's ideas, to become Port Adelaide Football Club, est. 1887 not 100% sure of the year but near enough! The Port Adelaide Magpies changed their name to the Port Adeliade Magpies! Port Adelaide Football Club moved to the AFL... As far as port supporters are concerned you can only beat the opposision, no ones fault we weren't in Victoria, If your going to count VFL detalis for the clubs count ours aswell, Fitzroy still exist, South Melbourne still exist, Port Adelaide sohuld still exist! We are over the Black and White Debate, we had to compromise, but there are alot of great players we feel should be recognised if the likes of Coleman and Renyolds are! We only ask what we passionately believe is fair! Fos Williams, Russell Ebert, Brian Cunningham, John Cahill just to name a few! We are not trying to rip any one off, we just want to be recognised! and to be honest, it dosen't make any difference except a bit of extra ink used when printing ou the AFL record and etc.
Don't get me wrong this is not a you shouldn't have your History carried through, I think you should! This is a please aknoledge our proud history and tradition!
Its just not the same. Sorry. Your SANFL flags are the equivalent of VFL reserves flags. If you get to count yours, so would every AFL team that ever won a VFL reserves premiership.
Port Adelaide entered the national competition in 1997.
notting18
20 Mar 2008, 16:08
Its just not the same. Sorry. Your SANFL flags are the equivalent of VFL reserves flags. If you get to count yours, so would every AFL team that ever won a VFL reserves premiership.
Port Adelaide entered the national competition in 1997.
Or the same as comparing a Scottish Premier League title and an EPL title....
RangaInTeal
20 Mar 2008, 16:13
Or the same as comparing a Scottish Premier League title and an EPL title....
Scottish Clubs dont go play in the EPL do they??? UEFA does count them however! and AFL is AUSTRALIAN Football League
lionbear
20 Mar 2008, 16:13
Sadly for Port it can't be done, Does Adelaide include every other SANFL Premiership because they represent the whole League, Does Freo include all the South and East Fremantle Flags. Different Leagues and it can't be done. Acknowledge they where formed over 100 years but there history should only include that from 1997.
TheBrownDog
20 Mar 2008, 16:15
Scottish Clubs dont go play in the EPL do they???
No, if they did, they'd have to apply for a new license and would effectively be a whole new club... just like the Port Adelaide Power.
RangaInTeal
20 Mar 2008, 16:19
Sadly for Port it can't be done, Does Adelaide include every other SANFL Premiership because they represent the whole League, Does Freo include all the South and East Fremantle Flags. Different Leagues and it can't be done. Acknowledge they where formed over 100 years but there history should only include that from 1997.
ADELAIDE WERE NOT A FOOTBALL CLUB! FREMANTLE WAS NOT A FOOTBALL CLUB!
PORT WERE A CLUB!
how can people not understand this! Why count VFL? It should only be counted as from 1991! AFL, Est. 1991
TheBrownDog
20 Mar 2008, 16:20
ADELAIDE WERE NOT A FOOTBALL CLUB! FREMANTLE WAS NOT A FOOTBALL CLUB!
PORT WERE A CLUB!
how can people not understand this! Why count VFL? It should only be counted as from 1991! AFL, Est. 1991
This is going way off topic now. Lets leave it alone.
RangaInTeal
20 Mar 2008, 16:23
No, if they did, they'd have to apply for a new license and would effectively be a whole new club... just like the Port Adelaide Power.
:rolleyes:NO YOU DONT HAVE THE INFORMATION CORRECT, Port Adeliade Football Club Est. 1887 "The Power", Port Adelaide Football Club "The Magpies", It's just a nick name, a marketting tool, whatever, The SANFL side is now, The Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club, the initials are now PAMFC they have changed their name! Port Adelaide HAVE NOT! Its not a WHOLE nex club, it's the same club!;)
RangaInTeal
20 Mar 2008, 16:24
This is going way off topic now. Lets leave it alone.
To be honest, I could see Port Adelaide Football Club one day taking the AFL to court over the issue!
Scottish Clubs dont go play in the EPL do they??? UEFA does count them however! and AFL is AUSTRALIAN Football League
Yeah they do.
Cardiff City are a perfect example (although they are a Welsh team playing in the English League).
They have their Welsh League records and their English League records which are kept seperate. Like if you look up the stats for the English League, they will only talk about when Cardiff played in the English League.
Its the same with Port. They have two sets of records (AFL and SANFL) which are kept seperate.
lionbear
20 Mar 2008, 16:30
Port have not played any teams in the AFL prior to 1997 so the Statistical Head to Heads wont change, The SANFL doesn't fit in with VFL/AFL records just like the VFA/VFL records don't. Richmond, Hawthorn, Kangaroos, Bulldogs don't have there pre VFL/AFL records included so Port don't either.
TheBrownDog
20 Mar 2008, 16:30
:rolleyes:NO YOU DONT HAVE THE INFORMATION CORRECT, Port Adeliade Football Club Est. 1887 "The Power", Port Adelaide Football Club "The Magpies", It's just a nick name, a marketting tool, whatever, The SANFL side is now, The Port Adelaide Magpies Football Club, the initials are now PAMFC they have changed their name! Port Adelaide HAVE NOT! Its not a WHOLE nex club, it's the same club!;)
I don't think the integrity of the competition should be subject to whatever business name trickery your organization undertook when it entered the national league.
A club's history is more than its business name, and your accomplishments in the SANFL are entirely independent of your accomplishments in the national league.
The Brisbane Lions are a merger of two teams and their history reflects their accomplishments in the AFL (and the VFL from which the AFL evolved). If you can't see the difference between this and your club... then I am baffled.
Can we please move along now... this thread is not about Port Adelaide or South Australian football.
lionbear
20 Mar 2008, 16:33
We are the boys from old Fitzroy
We wear the colours Maroon and Blue
It would be a bit like when North Ballarat joined the VFL (old VFA) a couple of years back. They didn't turn around and say that the VFL should count their 51 Ballarat Football Premierships.
And getting back onto Scottish football - the two powerhouse clubs (Rangers and Celtic) have talked about joining the EPL but haven't cause they know that they will have to forgo their huge history.
In hindsight, Port Power would have been better sticking to the SANFL… The only history they have made in the AFL is being the only team to lose a Grand Final by 119 points.
lionbear
20 Mar 2008, 16:41
In hindsight, Port Power would have been better sticking to the SANFL… The only history they have made in the AFL is being the only team to lose a Grand Final by 119 points.
Ouch
roger explosion
20 Mar 2008, 16:56
please note that RangaInTeal is not representative of all Port fans. he doesn't even know our foundation year ffs. 1870, as if it hasn't been hammered into him enough.
RangaInTeal
20 Mar 2008, 17:01
Yeah they do.
Cardiff City are a perfect example (although they are a Welsh team playing in the English League).
They have their Welsh League records and their English League records which are kept seperate. Like if you look up the stats for the English League, they will only talk about when Cardiff played in the English League.
Its the same with Port. They have two sets of records (AFL and SANFL) which are kept seperate.
Thankyou, I was unsure
ANGEL DARK
20 Mar 2008, 18:04
ADELAIDE WERE NOT A FOOTBALL CLUB! FREMANTLE WAS NOT A FOOTBALL CLUB!
PORT WERE A CLUB!
how can people not understand this! Why count VFL? It should only be counted as from 1991! AFL, Est. 1991
Port were a club in the SANFL until 1991 when they entered the AFL. Fitzroy were a club in the VFL/AFL from 1897 and are still part of the same competition as a merged club with Brisbane.How hard is that for you to understand?
The Flying Belgian
20 Mar 2008, 22:08
Enough. Had to check which board I was on for a second.
Back on topic please. Or cards will fly.
Dylan12
20 Mar 2008, 22:31
Enough. Had to check which board I was on for a second.
Back on topic please. Or cards will fly.
Here here. What the **** has Port got to do with Fitzroy?
Anyway, great news for all us old Fitzroy peeple, just want the AFL to recognise all our records from 97 onwards as a merged entity.
sauce_head
20 Mar 2008, 22:36
FucŁ off port whingers.
That is great news for the Roys. I can not believe the AFL did not recognise their history; I was unaware. Just goes to show why they pushed a mergers. @rseholes.
What happens to games that Fitz and Bris played against each other, are they eliminated, or halved, in the official win loss ratio?
yeah - getting back to the whole point of the thread - great news for the lions/bears/lionbear.