The K-Mac and Pav thing

[Kennyrocks]

I'm sure this has been done to death and is a little in the past but I've got to be honest, I've never really understood the Pav v Kenny thing.
Kenny was taken in 1998 at pick 75, while Pavlich went in the 1999 draft at number 4. I'm assuming its because Pavlich was overlooked completely in '98 but even so, why single Ken out from 91 picks from the 1998 National Draft (including the Hawks not utilising pick 91).

The stupidest part is if you work back from 75 you get to Andrew Embley at pick 57 before you find a better player than McGregor in the same draft. Even then, Embley was a bit of a fluke pick being that low, so work upwards again and you get to Heath Scotland at 44 and Fevola at 38 (again, a bit of a steal for each really).

Perhaps it is because Ken was our last pick (before Pav) but that doesn't make sense to me either, especially when you consider these are the players we took in the National Draft that year. Not to mention that we took Beinke at 80. Obviously none match up to the best CHF in the league but I've put my comments in brackets next to them none the less:

16. Brett Burton (Good pick, the guy is a freak)
29. Tyson Stenglein (Pretty solid pick at 29)
32. David Gallagher (:confused::eek::o:rolleyes:)
34. Bryan Beinke (Too old too injured to draft)
48. Lucas Herbert (What the)
63. Clint Kirey (See above)
75. Ken McGregor (Bit of a steal really)
80. Brodie Atkinson (Well, from Sturt but honestly...-See Beinke)

It just doesn't make sense to me, can someone please fill me in on the reasoning behind the targeting of McGregor when we rue not picking Pav?

[Southerntakeover]

There was some scheme that allowed us to pick one south australian 17 year old or something like that.

Boo friggin hoo. We got a 150 game player out of it. Whenever you draft a 150 game player, youve done very well.

[Kennyrocks]

There was some scheme that allowed us to pick one south australian 17 year old or something like that.

Boo friggin hoo. We got a 150 game player out of it. Whenever you draft a 150 game player, youve done very well.
Thanks, even though I was well and truly into footy by 1998 I was a little too young to be concerned with the draft at this stage. So you're saying McGregor was effectively reserved for us until pick 75?

[jumpman5]

There was some scheme that allowed us to pick one south australian 17 year old or something like that.

Boo friggin hoo. We got a 150 game player out of it. Whenever you draft a 150 game player, youve done very well.

except in this case hahaha

but seriously ____ this thread off...

[Southerntakeover]

Thanks, even though I was well and truly into footy by 1998 I was a little too young to be concerned with the draft at this stage. So you're saying McGregor was effectively reserved for us until pick 75?

That is my understanding of it.

Perhaps one of the posters who was a tad bit older at the time would care to elaborate. Its not something that ive really taken a huge interest in, i was also too young to be following drafts at the time, and really dont care for hindsight drafting.

[James_37]

Thanks, even though I was well and truly into footy by 1998 I was a little too young to be concerned with the draft at this stage. So you're saying McGregor was effectively reserved for us until pick 75?

Basically we could pick 1 17 year old and both Kenny and Pav qualified here, I'm sure if we could have picked as many as we would have liked we probably would have picked him up next. The reason we cop flak is that we had a choice between the 2, but then its not as if we were the only ones not to pick him up and we did pretty well out of it anyway. The criticism is unfair, but with the benefit of hindsight, Pav would have been the better choice.

[hugecannon]

Draft rules in 1998 stated that each team could pick one 17 year old we made the choice to take Kenny over Pavlich as Pav had only just finished year 11 and said he would concentrate on school the following year ala Dangerfield. As it turned out Pav played the year with WWT and dominated and was then drafted at no. 4 in 1999. Other clubs did much worse Port took Adam Morgan as their 17 year old :p

[Southerntakeover]

Basically we could pick 1 17 year old and both Kenny and Pav qualified here, I'm sure if we could have picked as many as we would have liked we probably would have picked him up next. The reason we cop flak is that we had a choice between the 2, but then its not as if we were the only ones not to pick him up and we did pretty well out of it anyway. The criticism is unfair, but with the benefit of hindsight, Pav would have been the better choice.

Could've been worse too.

Who did Port pick again? :p

[Kennyrocks]

except in this case hahaha

but seriously ____ this thread off...
Right... :confused:

[Kennyrocks]

Thanks for clearing it up for me guys, the 17 year old thing rings a bell now that you mention it.
Would I be right in saying that over Summer between Pav going from year 11 to 12 he shot up in height and went from little more than an above average and slowish midfielder to a fairly dominant and pacy KP forward? Also McGregor was U18 AA.

[hugecannon]

I'd love to know of all the 17 y.o. players taken in the draft who had the most success, I would think we'd have to be close with Kenny playing his 150th tomorrow.

[Kennyrocks]

I'd love to know of all the 17 y.o. players taken in the draft who had the most success, I would think we'd have to be close with Kenny playing his 150th tomorrow.
I'm sure someone would be able to tell you, try google? I don't think you'd beat the 150 games out of McGregor.

[marvin]

Old man here as requested...

Back in the olden days, teams were allowed to pick one 17 year old, and the rest had to be 18 plus.

In 1997, the 17 year olds picked were:

Brisbane - Des Headland (Pick 1)
Fremantle - Justin Longmuir (Pick 2)
Essendon - Mark McVeigh (Pick 9)
Melbourne - Chris Lamb (Pick 13)
Western Bulldogs - Luke Penny (Pick 14)
Kangaroos - Brady Rawlings (Pick 15)
Port - Adam Morgan (Pick 37)
Carlton - Brendon Fevola (Pick 38)
Collingwood - Damien Adkins (Pick 50)
Hawthorn - David Loats (Pick 51)
St Kilda - Troy Schwarze (Pick 53)
Richmond - Marc Dragicevic (Pick 55)
West Coast - Andrew Embley (Pick 57)
Sydney - Dwayne Simpson (Pick 59)
Adelaide - Ken McGregor (Pick 75)

Geelong didn't pick a 17 year old.

Essentially, what that meant was that once Freo went for Headland, all the other 17 year olds were off the market for them. By the time we had our first pick at number 16, 6 other teams had taken their 17 year old, so Kenny (and Fev, and Embley, and Pavlich, and every other 17 year old in the land) were off limits to them. You can see from the list that after the initial raid on 17 year olds in the first round, those taking more speculative or developmental picks saved them till late.

There weren't any state limitations - McVeigh's from NSW for example, and Port took Morgan from Oakleigh.

I thought I read somewhere that Pavlich went from about 5 foot 11 to 6 foot 4 after his 17th birthday, moving him from being a useful midfielder to a tasty key position type. It could be an urban myth.

Now time for a cocoa and a lie down.

[marvin]

I'm sure someone would be able to tell you, try google? I don't think you'd beat the 150 games out of McGregor.

List in the post above.

McVeigh and Fosdike are at 160+ games, Kenny and Headland 150 each after tomorrow, Fevola at 146 and Embley at 130-odd.

[Kennyrocks]

List in the post above.

McVeigh and Fosdike are at 160+ games, Kenny and Headland 150 each after tomorrow, Fevola at 146 and Embley at 130-odd.
Checkmate! :D

[Kennyrocks]

The 17 year old thing is an interesting concept. Obviously it would put limitations on your chances of being drafted if you're not 18 yet though. *Waits for someone to point out the average number of under 18s drafted being less than 16 or similar*

[Eastern Crow]

I too have never understood the Kenny v Pav thing

17 other clubs also over looked Pav as a 17 year old priority pick, so it makes no logical sense why people always refer to adelaide alone for not selecting Pav as a 17 year old priority pick :confused:

17 other recruitment officers did not rate Pav enough as a 17 year old ro draft him :eek:

[Pride of SA]

I think some of the issue with Adelaide is that apparently we had guys in the SANFL (might even have been Russell Ebert) telling us how special this kid was, and that the Crows must draft him.


he would have obviously been just what we needed, a tall strong gun forward, instead of going down the Carey route late, which is probably why our decision gets brought up so many times.

[Punchy Bassett]

And yet we continue to cop shit whereas Port cop none in the local press. Surprise surprise.

[srv23]

And yet we continue to cop shit whereas Port cop none in the local press. Surprise surprise.

Exactly. I'd rather have taken Kenny than Adam Morgan. At least we got 150 games out of him. And poor Kenny has had to live with the comparison with Pav for his entire career so no-one has looked at his achievements in isolation.

At the risk of bringing up another overdone topic - it's a bit like Ebert and Dangerfield. Danger will continue to cop comparisons with Ebert whereas there'll (I'm sure) be no mention of the other clubs that were thought may pick him and chose to overlook him.

[Macca19]

I thought I read somewhere that Pavlich went from about 5 foot 11 to 6 foot 4 after his 17th birthday, moving him from being a useful midfielder to a tasty key position type. It could be an urban myth.


Bit of a myth i think. Having played with and against him through school (and Mcgregor too), both players were a foot taller than most other kids. Pavlich was always destined to be great. You could tell in grade 4-5 that he was a freak. I remember in a mini league game at a Crows game, probably in 94, he kicked a goal from 50 out on the members boundary pocket. At the age of 13. All the parents, all the coaches, all the kids playing all knew he was gonna be something pretty spesh. We used to double team him in primary school to try and stop him.

Also a bit of a myth that he was this plodder in the under ages who suddenly got good. He was always in the best players in the 17s and 19s.

Mcgregor was always great as well. Its no surprise that either of them have made successful careers at the top level.

[srv23]

Bit of a myth i think. Having played with and against him through school (and Mcgregor too), both players were a foot taller than most other kids. Pavlich was always destined to be great. You could tell in grade 4-5 that he was a freak. I remember in a mini league game at a Crows game, probably in 94, he kicked a goal from 50 out on the members boundary pocket. At the age of 13. All the parents, all the coaches, all the kids playing all knew he was gonna be something pretty spesh. We used to double team him in primary school to try and stop him.

Also a bit of a myth that he was this plodder in the under ages who suddenly got good. He was always in the best players in the 17s and 19s.

Mcgregor was always great as well. Its no surprise that either of them have made successful careers at the top level.

If that's the case are you surprised (having seen him as a youngster) that he was overlooked as a priority 17 year old pick by every club including Port?

[Crows #1]

I think there are a couple of reasons we cop it for overlooking Pav.

1 - They were team mates, so if we were watching Kenny, we would have seen Pav.

2 - We considered Pav. I think that we were one of the few (maybe the only club?) that actually had him on the radar. It was known that we chose between those two.

I guess Port (and the other clubs) never really came out and said it was between Pav and Morgan or Pav and whoever, so they don't cop anything. If Port did, they would (ok should) also be looked at for a poor choice - in hindsight, which if always 20/20 vision.

I believe that at the time they were drafted Kenny was a much more dominant player than Pav. Mickan was the coach of the Eagles at the time and was consulted.

Stand to be corrected, but that is what I remember from back then. I don't have any inside knowledge about it.

In general we seem to cop it a bit more than others. Eg Reilly v Dal Santo, Angwin v Cornes and other picks that we have taken.

[Macca19]

If that's the case are you surprised (having seen him as a youngster) that he was overlooked as a priority 17 year old pick by every club including Port?

Not really sure. Im pretty sure he came out and 'did a Dangerfield' and said he wanted to finish school etc. so maybe that put them off. Cant say I paid too much attention to the draft back then so I dont know how many Vic sides would have seen him etc. Given that Mcgregor was the only SA 17 year old picked, maybe they werent rated as highly as the Vic kids.

To me, it was no surprise that he came out in 99 in his first SANFL season, kicked 40 goals and played State footy. I dont believe he suddenly went from zero to hero in the space of one off season.

[dyertribe]

Mickan was the coach of the Eagles at the time and was consulted.

Spot on. It's the Mickan factor.

But apart from the Year 12 thing as Macca19 has said, there was also the tweener factor with Pav which may have swayed the ultimate choice.

Not sure how tall he was at 17, but considering he stands 191cm fully grown it makes sense that if Kenny and Pav were more or less level-pegging in development at the time - and a genuine KPP was desired - the taller option was taken.

[Kennyrocks]

Bit of a myth i think. Having played with and against him through school (and Mcgregor too), both players were a foot taller than most other kids. Pavlich was always destined to be great. You could tell in grade 4-5 that he was a freak. I remember in a mini league game at a Crows game, probably in 94, he kicked a goal from 50 out on the members boundary pocket. At the age of 13. All the parents, all the coaches, all the kids playing all knew he was gonna be something pretty spesh. We used to double team him in primary school to try and stop him.

Also a bit of a myth that he was this plodder in the under ages who suddenly got good. He was always in the best players in the 17s and 19s.

Mcgregor was always great as well. Its no surprise that either of them have made successful careers at the top level.
Just stopped laughing at this post :D

[Crow-mo]

pretty sure Kenny came off a knee injury that year, and didn't play much in the year we drafted him.

it's beyond daft to say we should've drafted Pav, when we made a great choice. sure, we could've done a bit better, but in the draft with hindsight who can't say that. many cannot say, as we can that they did great though.

[Carl Spackler]

I remember John Reid defending the decision on 5AA when Pav was burning it up for WWT and was looking like being a top three selection in the following draft. "We made the right choice," he said.