The Good, the Bad and the ugly

[bigman]

The Good

Kurt Tippett - he is going to be a very very good player.

Andrew McCleod - he won us the game BOG today

Griffo - improving his game

Mackay - after a shocking start he showed his class

Douglas - he gets some good touches - he will continue to improve

Stiffy - very good today

Doughty - the young one played another ripper game - he has taken his game to a new level

Burton - together with Goodwin - our best forwards.

Rhys Palmer - outstanding young talent



The Bad

Our midfield was very disppointing - how does Shirley get a game - too slow -he is not in good form - why is he playing?

VB - his decision making - what is this habit of taking a few steps after a mark.

Bassett - his decision making under pressure.

Jacky's first game - he is not ready for AFL yet - but he will be a good player in time. Good on the club for blooding him




The Ugly

Our goalkicking.

Our decision making at times.

[bigman]

The Good

Symes ball getting ability


The Bad

Symes hurt factor with the ball


The Ugly

His decison making at times - Connell like in nature

[bigman]

The Good

Winning a close game.

Not playing at the top of the game but still winning and winning ugly

Not having to put up with Danny Frawley commentating.

Craigy's coaching - thought he did well again today - thought he was good too last week.

Hopefully gettig some good players back in the next few weeks.


The Bad

Not killing off a team


The Ugly

My language at the TV during the game.

A very frsutrating performance

[Drummond]

The Good:

Tippett- CLASS! Some of those pics-ups were dynamite and a guy standing 200cm should not be able to do such things!

Doughty- I'm shocked at the football he is producing. He must have read my posts from last year!

Symes- Yes he might waste it from time to time, and I've been his biggest critic in this area, but he's doing well.

Vince- Very good once again, not quite as prolific as past weeks but contributed.

The crowd- For not walking out on a truly forgettable game.

The Bad:

Shirley, McGregor- Nearing the end.

Goal kicking- Here we go again.

The Ugly:

Jacky- The odd glimpse of class but nowhere near being AFL ready. If they wanted to play a debutant, it had to be Dangerfield. That’s not just the heart talking, but the head.

The game- I’ve already moved on.

[bigman]

The Good:

Tippett- CLASS! Some of those pics-ups were dynamite and a guy standing 200cm should not be able to do such things!

Doughty- I'm shocked at the football he is producing. He must have read my posts from last year!

Symes- Yes he might waste it from time to time, and I've been his biggest critic in this area, but he's doing well.

Vince- Very good once again, not quite as prolific as past weeks but contributed.

The crowd- For not walking out on a truly forgettable game.

The Bad:

Shirley, McGregor- Nearing the end.

Goal kicking- Here we go again.

The Ugly:

Jacky- The odd glimpse of class but nowhere near being AFL ready. If they wanted to play a debutant, it had to be Dangerfield. That’s not just the heart talking, but the head.

The game- I’ve already moved on.

Agree with nearly all of your comments Drum.

Your last comment says it all -excpet for some magic from Macca and Kurt we can say very easily that this was not a classic affair.

[Wayne's-World]

The Good

Symes ball getting ability


The Bad

Symes hurt factor with the ball


The Ugly

His decison making at times - Connell like in nature

Hey Bigman I got crucified last week for suggesting what you have stated.

But hey ..... a fact is a fact

There are so many similarities with the Connell comparison ......confusion between ball getting and doing something with that involves some hurt factor .

As I said I understand why Port played him off HB .....that's probably his possie

[Carl Spackler]

Hey Bigman I got crucified last week for suggesting what you have stated.

But hey ..... a fact is a fact

There are so many similarities with the Connell comparison ......confusion between ball getting and doing something with that involves some hurt factor .

As I said I understand why Port played him off HB .....that's probably his possie
So, you're tipping Symes for a B&F?

I think you were criticised for your lack of understanding that when you balance up Symes good points with his bad points we are still way ahead, not because any of the negatives you were raised were wrong necessarily.

[Stiffy_18]

I love the Shirley knockers!

Fair dinkum, did any of you arm chair experts actually follow his game today. He did a FANTASTIC job on Pavlich every time he was thrown onball which seemed to be a hell of a lot more time than he spend as a forward.

Shirley was fighting out of his height, weight and class division and Pavlich still couldn't buy a possesions as a midfielder.

[Wayne's-World]

So, you're tipping Symes for a B&F?

I think you were criticised for your lack of understanding that when you balance up Symes good points with his bad points we are still way ahead, not because any of the negatives you were raised were wrong necessarily.

No .......I was criticized for believing his bad points outweighed his good points ONLY in the positions he has been playing ......and that those views were expressed after a Crows win.

If the Crows had lost .....then every players bad traits are highlighted ;)

[Wayne's-World]

I love the Shirley knockers!

Fair dinkum, did any of you arm chair experts actually follow his game today. He did a FANTASTIC job on Pavlich every time he was thrown onball which seemed to be a hell of a lot more time than he spend as a forward.

Shirley was fighting out of his height, weight and class division and Pavlich still couldn't buy a possesions as a midfielder.

You are fair dinkum kidding aren't you :eek: ........Pavlich couldn't get into the game today no matter where he played

But to credit Shirley for stopping Pavlich when he was ALREADY having a horrid day ......is really stretching reality Stiffy.

Fact is he's slow and fumbling alot .......this from an experienced players says OUT OF FORM

[Stiffy_18]

You are fair dinkum kidding aren't you :eek: ........Pavlich couldn't get into the game today no matter where he played

But to credit Shirley for stopping Pavlich when he was ALREADY having a horrid day ......is really stretching reality Stiffy.

Fact is he's slow and fumbling alot .......this from an experienced players says OUT OF FORM
Here comes another arm chair expert that only beleives the shit he sees on his TV. Here is a fact, there were a LOT of times Pavlich was in great position to get his hands on the footy and the Freo are off but every time that was the case, SHirley worked his backside off to block his run at the ball for long enough so that someone else can come in and run away with it.

Now as far as the offensive side of his game is concerned, Shirley is lacking touch. No doubt about that but for anyone to belittle his DEFENSIVE game today is just plain ignorant! Simple as that.

[macca23]

I love the Shirley knockers!

Fair dinkum, did any of you arm chair experts actually follow his game today. He did a FANTASTIC job on Pavlich every time he was thrown onball which seemed to be a hell of a lot more time than he spend as a forward.

Shirley was fighting out of his height, weight and class division and Pavlich still couldn't buy a possesions as a midfielder.

Well said Stiffy. I did notice that. :thumbsu:

Overall the coach would have been reasonably happy with his game, because he did what he was asked to do.

It doesn't matter though. The usual suspects will be calling for his head no matter what, irrespective of who replaces him or even if there is no-one ready to replace him. :rolleyes:

[Wayne's-World]

Here comes another arm chair expert that only beleives the shit he sees on his TV. Here is a fact, there were a LOT of times Pavlich was in great position to get his hands on the footy and the Freo are off but every time that was the case, SHirley worked his backside off to block his run at the ball for long enough so that someone else can come in and run away with it.
Now as far as the offensive side of his game is concerned, Shirley is lacking touch. No doubt about that but for anyone to belittle his DEFENSIVE game today is just plain ignorant! Simple as that.

So he was a moving Stobby pole ....

Fair Dinkum Stiffy how can you defend the indefensivable


Of course the fact he's on the ground means he has to do something ......or as you have said get in someones way.

But to suggest he should continue getting games NOT BECAUSE he has no offensive side to his game .......which I'll add was a good part of his game in 07 ......but becuase he gets in peoples way .....is laughable :p

[Wayne's-World]

Well said Stiffy. I did notice that. :thumbsu:

Overall the coach would have been reasonably happy with his game, because he did what he was asked to do.

It doesn't matter though. The usual suspects will be calling for his head no matter what, irrespective of who replaces him or even if there is no-one ready to replace him. :rolleyes:

Crap .....you know no such thing!

You have staunchly defended al WWT Crows players ......your as biased as Drummond ;)

[macca23]

Crap .....you know no such thing!

You have staunchly defended al WWT Crows players ......your as biased as Drummond ;)

If you genuinely think I'm defending them because they're WWT players you have no idea - none.

I don't give a fat rat's clacker who they play for in the SANFL. Zero, zilch, nothing, nought.

Is that clear??

Actually what makes me angry is that some of the posters who slag off at Mcregor and Shirley are slagging off at two players who bust their guts trying, irrespective of their form.

Yes, their day will come and they will be replaced by other players when those players DESERVE to replace them.

Further to that , the slaggers of these two are in some cases the same people who push for Jericho to be given 5 games in a row to prove himself - a player that won't bust his guts for the team.

We won the game yet they're being treated like they're unco-ordinated misfits with zero football ability who made a negative contribution. :rolleyes:

[Wayne's-World]

If you genuinely think I'm defending them because they're WWT players you have no idea - none.

I don't give a fat rat's clacker who they play for in the SANFL. Zero, zilch, nothing, nought.

Is that clear??

:rolleyes:

Are you speaking to me ....or at me

[Wayne's-World]

Actually what makes me angry is that some of the posters who slag off at Mcregor and Shirley are slagging off at two players who bust their guts trying, irrespective of their form.

Yes, their day will come and they will be replaced by other players when those players DESERVE to replace them.

Further to that , the slaggers of these two are in some cases the same people who push for Jericho to be given 5 games in a row to prove himself - a player that won't bust his guts for the team.

We won the game yet they're being treated like they're unco-ordinated misfits with zero football ability who made a negative contribution. :rolleyes:

Again factless emotional clap trap

Of course any player who plays AFL is a good footy player ......there's only a select few who get the opportunity.

I hate the term slagging players ....frankly no-one slags players .... simply analyzing players performances and potential.

The fact you disagree means in your eyes their slagging .....go figure.

But it's alright for you to unmercifully cut down players like Smith and Jericho ....that's not slagging ....right?

I have been a detractor of Macgregor and Shirley for two seasons ......based only on performance thru my eyes .....and I have given valid commentary on my reasons.

BUT ......I have also, if you read my posts ......credited them when they have had good games.

ALL players deserve respect .....not just your fancied mates

Players are reviewed based on performances over a period of time.

Now here;s one for you ..... I have now put a query on Symes ......if you call that slagging .....so be it ....but I'd refer the dictionary first

[SpringChoke]

:rolleyes:The Good:

Tippett- CLASS! Some of those pics-ups were dynamite and a guy standing 200cm should not be able to do such things!

Doughty- I'm shocked at the football he is producing. He must have read my posts from last year!

Symes- Yes he might waste it from time to time, and I've been his biggest critic in this area, but he's doing well.

Vince- Very good once again, not quite as prolific as past weeks but contributed.

The crowd- For not walking out on a truly forgettable game.

The Bad:

Shirley, McGregor- Nearing the end.

Goal kicking- Here we go again.

The Ugly:

Jacky- The odd glimpse of class but nowhere near being AFL ready. If they wanted to play a debutant, it had to be Dangerfield. That’s not just the heart talking, but the head.

The game- I’ve already moved on.


Jacky gets a "the ugly" on his first game - hmmmm :rolleyes: Great way to support your youngsters. However, you are right on McGregor - rubbish player, best decoy in the compeition- must be bloody good at training.

[Drummond]

:rolleyes:


Jacky gets a "the ugly" on his first game - hmmmm :rolleyes: Great way to support your youngsters. However, you are right on McGregor - rubbish player, must be bloody good at training.
Yeh too harsh I admit, nothing against Jacky's performance, the ugly was more directed at how injuries have forced us to play a guy obviously no where near being AFL ready.

[Wayne's-World]

:rolleyes:


Jacky gets a "the ugly" on his first game - hmmmm :rolleyes: Great way to support your youngsters. However, you are right on McGregor - rubbish player, best decoy in the compeition- must be bloody good at training.

Wrong SC .....he's playing his role as is very important to our structure

[swanfan]

The Ugly for me today was fellow Crows fans in Bay 122 booing when we were playing tempo footy with around 5 minutes to go.

The overuse of handball and players not presenting as a target was probably what I would classify as bad today.

Kurt Tippet and our youngsters continual development impresses me more week by week.

[Stiffy_18]

The Ugly for me today was fellow Crows fans in Bay 122 booing when we were playing tempo footy with around 5 minutes to go.

The overuse of handball and players not presenting as a target was probably what I would classify as bad today.

Kurt Tippet and our youngsters continual development impresses me more week by week.That was the most annoying thing about today. So many times we would rebound out of defence and there would be no one presenting further up the field.

I remember one passage of play we rebound out of defence, Edwards gets it in the corridor, he looks up there is NO ONE presenting, he tries to get out of trouble and eventually gets run down, Freo go down their end and kick a goal.

SO frustrating. As soon as we start breaking out from HB, players further up the field MUST be proving that player with an option. We were just stagnant!

[swanfan]

That was the most annoying thing about today. So many times we would rebound out of defence and there would be no one presenting further up the field.

I remember one passage of play we rebound out of defence, Edwards gets it in the corridor, he looks up there is NO ONE presenting, he tries to get out of trouble and eventually gets run down, Freo go down their end and kick a goal.

SO frustrating. As soon as we start breaking out from HB, players further up the field MUST be proving that player with an option. We were just stagnant!

Hook, line, sinker Stiffy. :thumbsu:

[SpringChoke]

Wrong SC .....he's playing his role as is very important to our structure

If his role is to not kick goals, get bugger of the ball and apply zero defensive pressure, then he is playing his role to perfection.

Nick Gill, hurry back.

[Wayne's-World]

If his role is to not kick goals, get bugger of the ball and apply zero defensive pressure, then he is playing his role to perfection.

Nick Gill, hurry back.

You said it ....not me :o

[bigman]

I love the Shirley knockers!

Fair dinkum, did any of you arm chair experts actually follow his game today. He did a FANTASTIC job on Pavlich every time he was thrown onball which seemed to be a hell of a lot more time than he spend as a forward.

Shirley was fighting out of his height, weight and class division and Pavlich still couldn't buy a possesions as a midfielder.

I cannot believe your support here Stiffy.

Shirley is out of form, slow and fumbling. He is getting few clearances and is struggling to keep up with the pace ofthe game in 2007.

AS long as my arse points to the ground I will agree with Wayne's world in his comments on Shirleys game.

He was playing well last year after he was dropped but to say he was playing well atm is like saying we shot well for:eek::eek: goals today.

[Eastern Crow]

Good
4 points :thumbsu:
Macca - all class
Vince, Symes and Doughty

Bad
Umpiring - affect the standard of the game
Kenny and Shirley, struggling to play the modern game
should of put Freo away earlier

Ugly
decision making and over use of the footy

[jenny61_99]

The Good:



Winning a game despite intense pressure from the opposition. They got to within 4 points - and last year would have over-run us. We played tempo footy and it won us the game in the end.
Andrew McLeod.... in a class of his own.
Kurt Tippett - building a great rep for himself.
Griffin - battling manfully against the man mountain in Sandilands.
Basset/Doughty/Johncock for the majority of the game. (Except for brain fades by Bass in the last quarter :eek:).

The Bad:


The Crows fans booing their own team. :thumbsd: Then minutes later cheering because we won the game. :rolleyes:
Thommo's inability to shake his tag. Must be some way we can get him back into the game because he is invaluable. Having said that his goal in the last quarter was a gem (and much needed).

The Ugly:


The Crows fans booing their own team. :(
Poor decision making.
Umpiring was dreadful both ways and really of a poor standard.

Not one for the highlights real (except that Macca probably earned 3 brownlow points today :thumbsu:).

[auspicious]

I agree with you Bigman on everything.

[macca23]

The fact you disagree means in your eyes their slagging .....go figure.

But it's alright for you to unmercifully cut down players like Smith and Jericho ....that's not slagging ....right?

I have been a detractor of Macgregor and Shirley for two seasons ......based only on performance thru my eyes .....and I have given valid commentary on my reasons.

BUT ......I have also, if you read my posts ......credited them when they have had good games.

ALL players deserve respect .....not just your fancied mates

Players are reviewed based on performances over a period of time.

Now here;s one for you ..... I have now put a query on Symes ......if you call that slagging .....so be it ....but I'd refer the dictionary first

WW, you bring up my comments on Smith (0 games in 5 years) and Jericho (28 games in 6 years, many of which have lacked intensity) and compare them to the comments re McGregor and Shirley.

What upsets me when McGregor and Shirley get called duds, hacks etc is that McGregor has played 150 games for us and Shirley 121 games and both have always given 100%.

Neither of these two players have ever done anything other than put their bodies on the line for us every time they wear our jumper.

That doesn't mean that every game that they've played has been a top notch game - no player ever has that.

Their time will come and it may well be soon. That's not a bad thing if they are replaced by a better player, and that is the natural evolution of a footy club anyway.

However some of the suggestions to replace them have been outrageous or non-existent. Add to that they get called duds and hacks by some posters and that's bloody disrespectful and poor reward for busting your guts in 271 games combined for our club.

They deserve better than that.

As for Symes, I know you're not big on the playing a role bit - but he does. He's currently rotating between wing and HB and then has a run on the ball to give a mid-field player a breather.

While he's not a speedster, he is a very good reader of the play which compensates for that IMO. The criticism of his disposal is valid as while he's improving, he still delivers a few hospital balls.

As we build up more mid-fielders he's more likely to spend more time on a HB flank as you've suggested.

[fightingdreamer88]

I thought Jacky showed some good glimpses when on the ground but just kept losing his feet!! Looked like an issue with the boots. You could see in one particular case that he was far quicker than his opponents yet had only just begun to accelerate, wheeled around and slipped onto his side.

He will be dangerous in time, I am adamant. Back him.

[Rollins]

I cannot believe your support here Stiffy.

Shirley is out of form, slow and fumbling. He is getting few clearances and is struggling to keep up with the pace ofthe game in 2007.

AS long as my arse points to the ground I will agree with Wayne's world in his comments on Shirleys game.

He was playing well last year after he was dropped but to say he was playing well atm is like saying we shot well for:eek::eek: goals today.

Shirlley is certainly a few steps behind...heres hoping he picks up the pace...otherwise blood another youngun because shirls will be gone next year

[-CG-]

What upsets me when McGregor and Shirley get called duds, hacks etc is that McGregor has played 150 games for us and Shirley 121 games and both have always given 100%.

Neither of these two players have ever done anything other than put their bodies on the line for us every time they wear our jumper.

That doesn't mean that every game that they've played has been a top notch game - no player ever has that.

Their time will come and it may well be soon. That's not a bad thing if they are replaced by a better player, and that is the natural evolution of a footy club anyway.

However some of the suggestions to replace them have been outrageous or non-existent. Add to that they get called duds and hacks by some posters and that's bloody disrespectful and poor reward for busting your guts in 271 games combined for our club.

They deserve better than that.



Oh, don't know about that. They've had their moments, as does most players, when they haven't given it their all. I don't think Shirley gave 100% today. Actually, I think thats their real problem at the moment. They aren't giving 100% consistently.

[macca23]

Shirlley is certainly a few steps behind...heres hoping he picks up the pace...otherwise blood another youngun because shirls will be gone next year

As I've posted elsewhere, Shirley is contemplating retiring at the end of the year, even though he's only 28.

He's a realist and can see that he's unlikely to get a renewal of his contract given the number of good young mid-fielders that are on the rise in our club.

[PCORF]

On a warm day you'd expect a higher scoring game but instead it was just an ugly game, full stop. Our misses at goal were unacceptable and we struggled and I can agree with all you. Luckily we got some much needed goals at the southern end of the ground in the final quarter. McLeod was superb when we needed him most, two great goals. A brilliant Brett Burton handpass to McLeod while lying on the ground after a failed screamer attempt.

[Rollins]

As I've posted elsewhere, Shirley is contemplating retiring at the end of the year, even though he's only 28.

He's a realist and can see that he's unlikely to get a renewal of his contract given the number of good young mid-fielders that are on the rise in our club.

Exactly...hence me saying he will be gone next year..:)

[Southerntakeover]

I don't think Shirley gave 100% today. Actually, I think thats their real problem at the moment. They aren't giving 100% consistently.

Uh what?

Do you not feel they are playing to their best, or do you think they arent trying their hardest?

[-CG-]

Uh what?

Do you not feel they are playing to their best, or do you think they arent trying their hardest?

I don't think they're trying their best, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

[Allefgib]

Good:

Macca's game. He was everywhere and kicked the sealer. Great game.

Tippet's magic touch around the ground.

Birdman/Goody looking very dangerous and settled up forward.

Jacky getting a run.

Griff/Tips really coming along in the ruck.

Another W.

Bad:

Terrible game to watch.

Lack of pace. Both freo and the hawks seem to have players who just explode and leave us for dead.

Not kicking long quickly enough or often enough to the forwardline.

Ugly:

The game.

Old guy next to me who called me a 'scab' for enquiring who a freo player was just because he had a record and I didn't.. (admittedly it was the second :0 time!!)

The fact we nearly lost to freo.

Goalkicking! Game should have been over far earlier!

[Southerntakeover]

I don't think they're trying their best, sorry if I didn't make that clear.

You made it clear enough. I just gave you the benefit of the doubt before i thought you were talking crap.

Edit... Will this be in your next blog? :)

[Kane McGoodwin]

The Ugly for me today was fellow Crows fans in Bay 122 booing when we were playing tempo footy with around 5 minutes to go.
I'll take the 4 points everytime.

Tempo footy is OK at the death or if the other team has a big run on.

[-CG-]

You made it clear enough. I just gave you the benefit of the doubt before i thought you were talking crap.

Edit... Will this be in your next blog? :)

Ahhhh probably not :p

[King Elvis]

He will be dangerous in time, I am adamant. Back him.

Christ you talk some shit.

Anyway - McGregor was ordinary today. He shows glimpses, but I think he is struggling to decide what his position/role is. Is he a lead up CHF, a stay at home FF, a lead up forward, what? At this stage, he's in the team because we have no alternative, when Gill gets fit and in form, I can't see Kenny holding his position.

Shirley however, I think people are being very hard on. I don't know his stats, but defensively, I thought he played a very good game. He was generally at the contest and getting involved. His opponent got very few touches, so you class his tagging as a success. His problem is that last year we saw him begin to step up and not only stop his opponent, but rack up some touches and contested possessions.

Our goalkicking - rubbish, again; we should have buried them.

And we're developing a habit for handballing to a teammate in a worse position. Too many hospital handballs; something that definitely needs to be addressed.

[-CG-]

Shirley however, I think people are being very hard on. I don't know his stats, but defensively, I thought he played a very good game. He was generally at the contest and getting involved. His opponent got very few touches, so you class his tagging as a success. His problem is that last year we saw him begin to step up and not only stop his opponent, but rack up some touches and contested possessions.

Our goalkicking - rubbish, again; we should have buried them.

And we're developing a habit for handballing to a teammate in a worse position. Too many hospital handballs; something that definitely needs to be addressed.

Neil Craig mentioned in his press conference its something we continually need to work on. Although, having seen both main training sessions this week, not much was being done.

Towards the end of the session most players, not all, line up for shots at goal. I see the main problem being they're all generally down the southern end and taking kicks from the same side of the 50, near the race.

[Wayne's-World]

WW, you bring up my comments on Smith (0 games in 5 years) and Jericho (28 games in 6 years, many of which have lacked intensity) and compare them to the comments re McGregor and Shirley.

What upsets me when McGregor and Shirley get called duds, hacks etc is that McGregor has played 150 games for us and Shirley 121 games and both have always given 100%.

Neither of these two players have ever done anything other than put their bodies on the line for us every time they wear our jumper.

That doesn't mean that every game that they've played has been a top notch game - no player ever has that.

Their time will come and it may well be soon. That's not a bad thing if they are replaced by a better player, and that is the natural evolution of a footy club anyway.

However some of the suggestions to replace them have been outrageous or non-existent. Add to that they get called duds and hacks by some posters and that's bloody disrespectful and poor reward for busting your guts in 271 games combined for our club.

They deserve better than that.

As for Symes, I know you're not big on the playing a role bit - but he does. He's currently rotating between wing and HB and then has a run on the ball to give a mid-field player a breather.

While he's not a speedster, he is a very good reader of the play which compensates for that IMO. The criticism of his disposal is valid as while he's improving, he still delivers a few hospital balls.

As we build up more mid-fielders he's more likely to spend more time on a HB flank as you've suggested.

Macca I agree with everything you have said .......nothing I have EVER said has remotely been along the lines of calling either of these players DUDS.

I, like you have the utmost respect for anyone who plays AFL and in particular if you have played over 100 games.

But I have always thought there have been alternatives to these players ......McGregor more so in that as a CHB I preferred a more attacking player in that position ......Something Craig has agreed with.

And in Shirley ......well I have never quite seen or agreed with the adulation in taggers in general .......they seem to me to be largely ineffectual .......doesn't stop top midfielders winning games, brownlows ...

It's like if you can't stop Franklin one on one .......then how do you stop a midfielder who is getting blocks set for him ......I still go with it;s therefore better to have a run with player but one with a better offensive game.

We just have to agree to disaggree on this point ;)

[Wayne's-World]

As I've posted elsewhere, Shirley is contemplating retiring at the end of the year, even though he's only 28.

He's a realist and can see that he's unlikely to get a renewal of his contract given the number of good young mid-fielders that are on the rise in our club.

Doesn't that simply support my position :confused: .......and so why have you argued so strongly that he is performing when by his own thoughts he & the club knows his time is up :confused:

[King Elvis]

Doesn't that simply support my position :confused: .......and so why have you argued so strongly that he is performing when by his own thoughts he & the club knows his time is up :confused:

The young midfielders who can take his position aren't ready yet.

In 12 months they probably will be, but they aren't now.

[Wayne's-World]

The young midfielders who can take his position aren't ready yet.

In 12 months they probably will be, but they aren't now.

I agree .....ATM still need to keep a balance between young and experienced players.

3 first year players on top of Douglas, Vince, Porplyzia and Griffin is enough.

But once Knights and Reilly are back they will bring that experience with them

[macca23]

Doesn't that simply support my position :confused: .......and so why have you argued so strongly that he is performing when by his own thoughts he & the club knows his time is up :confused:

The young midfielders who can take his position aren't ready yet.

In 12 months they probably will be, but they aren't now.


I agree .....ATM still need to keep a balance between young and experienced players.

3 first year players on top of Douglas, Vince, Porplyzia and Griffin is enough.

But once Knights and Reilly are back they will bring that experience with them

Just on your first post WW, King Elvis has answered it for me. Next year, there will be Dangerfield and Otten to add to the mid-field pressure on Shirley's position.

Shirley had quite a reasonable game yesterday, keeping Bell to a quiet game by his standards, and helping in the centre square to make sure that Pavlich had no major influence when he went there. A lot of the comments he has received on his performance yesterday have been just plain unfair.

Having said that, Vince and Douglas have stepped up nicely in the absence of Knights and Reilly, and when these last 2 mentioned players return, there will be huge pressure on spots in the mid-field.

That might well squeeze Shirley out, it may not, depending on form.

As you said in your other post, we're just going to have to agree to disagree.

[fightingdreamer88]

Christ you talk some shit.

You don't think he'll be any good Mr. Presley? Your choice...but imo you're way off the mark if you don't think he will become a dangerous player.

[King Elvis]

You don't think he'll be any good Mr. Presley? Your choice...but imo you're way off the mark if you don't think he will become a dangerous player.

I think 98% of this board would think he'll be a gun - we don't need you pronouncing it like it's some great revelation that only you see, and are generous enough to share with the masses.

[Campbell's Chunky]

I thought Jacky showed some good glimpses when on the ground but just kept losing his feet!! Looked like an issue with the boots. You could see in one particular case that he was far quicker than his opponents yet had only just begun to accelerate, wheeled around and slipped onto his side.

He will be dangerous in time, I am adamant. Back him.
How fast can he run 0-5 metres?

[fightingdreamer88]

I think 98% of this board would think he'll be a gun - we don't need you pronouncing it like it's some great revelation that only you see, and are generous enough to share with the masses.

Someone has to offset Drummond's negativity. Thank the lord for FD88. :p

[Campbell's Chunky]

Someone has to offset Drummond's negativity. Thank the lord for FD88. :p
Mate, shut the ____ up.

[King Elvis]

Someone has to offset Drummond's negativity. Thank the lord for FD88. :p

At least Drummond, as over the top as he can be, generally tries to back up his arguments, instead of just spouting shallow crap.

[SpringChoke]

:thumbsd:Mate, shut the ____ up.

Give it a rest hero. Sheesh the mob mentality is alive and well on this board.:thumbsd:

[Campbell's Chunky]

:thumbsd:

Give it a rest hero. Sheesh the mob mentality is alive and well on this board.:thumbsd:
I'm pretty tolerant, but as King Elvis said, the guy is spouting shit and ruining threads.

[Dandy_GO]

I don't think they're trying their best, sorry if I didn't make that clear.
That's a very hard call to make from a supporters perspective, but I don't think you're wrong to be honest. I got that same feeling at the game yesterday.
The passion seems to be missing right now. Just in the last 2 games, we really haven't played with the same hunger that we did in the first few rounds. Were really shown up against Hawthorn, but that was understandable. Yesterday, we would have been flogged by a decent side. The killer instinct was missing, and we very nearly lost it.
I don't see this in every player, mind you, but in the team as a whole.

[-CG-]

That's a very hard call to make from a supporters perspective, but I don't think you're wrong to be honest. I got that same feeling at the game yesterday.
The passion seems to be missing right now. Just in the last 2 games, we really haven't played with the same hunger that we did in the first few rounds. Were really shown up against Hawthorn, but that was understandable. Yesterday, we would have been flogged by a decent side. The killer instinct was missing, and we very nearly lost it.
I don't see this in every player, mind you, but in the team as a whole.

Agree :thumbsu:

[Southerntakeover]

That's a very hard call to make from a supporters perspective, but I don't think you're wrong to be honest. I got that same feeling at the game yesterday.
The passion seems to be missing right now. Just in the last 2 games, we really haven't played with the same hunger that we did in the first few rounds. Were really shown up against Hawthorn, but that was understandable. Yesterday, we would have been flogged by a decent side. The killer instinct was missing, and we very nearly lost it.
I don't see this in every player, mind you, but in the team as a whole.

I attribute that to having a very tired team, which is down to its bones in terms of fit players, not a lack of trying. I highly doubt any player walks onto the field thinking 'im not going to try today', as some seem to think.

[fightingdreamer88]

That's a very hard call to make from a supporters perspective, but I don't think you're wrong to be honest. I got that same feeling at the game yesterday.
The passion seems to be missing right now. Just in the last 2 games, we really haven't played with the same hunger that we did in the first few rounds. Were really shown up against Hawthorn, but that was understandable. Yesterday, we would have been flogged by a decent side. The killer instinct was missing, and we very nearly lost it.
I don't see this in every player, mind you, but in the team as a whole.

Partly killer instinct but also the lack of a clear mindset and confidence. Waves of run are being initiated at will but players are second-guessing themselves and over-possessing. When in doubt they are sending it sideways and backwards (and short too) rather than gaining crucial yardage with a long kick to the hot spot. This long kick is ALWAYS better than a backwards or sideways disposal under pressure because at least if an error occurs the ball has a long way to go to place the side in danger of conceding a score.

I still say Scott Thompson is a major offender - decision making and disposal let him down in pressure situations quite badly. He is a shocker for the stop-pivot-turnover play and frankly it has cost us a lot in the past couple of years. Classic example of what I'm saying was against Freo at AAMI in the final term last year - cleanly gathered the ball from the centre bounce and had a chance to snap the ball inside 50 but second-guessed himself, went for the trademark Scott Thompson pivot, and handballed straight to an opposition player which killed off any chance of an Adelaide surge.

Neil Craig is right though - at least it is a case of adjusting the use of the ball and not a case of trying to find the ball.

[Dandy_GO]

I attribute that to having a very tired team, which is down to its bones in terms of fit players, not a lack of trying. I highly doubt any player walks onto the field thinking 'im not going to try today', as some seem to think.
Because that's what we're saying, hey?

[Dandy_GO]

I'll put it this way. You put it down to a tired team, yet our side looked a hell of a lot more fresh at the end of the game than we have in previous weeks. There was no Andrew McLeod throwing up at 3/4 time, or no gutbusting chases leaving a bloke completely out of puff on the wing. For a side that's tired, if they were giving it their absolute all, as we were against Port, for instance, we'd be noticing MORE of these things, wouldn't you expect.
I just think we're taking it easy right now.
On cruise control.
There were a lot of little examples of players not digging deep that I noticed. One that didn't have any effect on the game, but annoyed me, were a few of our talls failing to make it to the goal-line when Freo were taking a long range set shot. It wasn't fatigue. Anyone can see when it's fatigue and when it's not.

[fightingdreamer88]

I'll put it this way. You put it down to a tired team, yet our side looked a hell of a lot more fresh at the end of the game than we have in previous weeks. There was no Andrew McLeod throwing up at 3/4 time, or no gutbusting chases leaving a bloke completely out of puff on the wing. For a side that's tired, if they were giving it their absolute all, as we were against Port, for instance, we'd be noticing MORE of these things, wouldn't you expect.
I just think we're taking it easy right now.
On cruise control.
There were a lot of little examples of players not digging deep that I noticed. One that didn't have any effect on the game, but annoyed me, were a few of our talls failing to make it to the goal-line when Freo were taking a long range set shot. It wasn't fatigue. Anyone can see when it's fatigue and when it's not.

So you knock my (quite awesome) posts and then turn around trying to tell us this side is in CRUISE CONTROL?! They are playing with no conviction!! That's not cruise control, not at all. Very different. If they were in cruise control they wouldn't hesitate, they wouldn't stutter. That's something very different to cruise control...

[King Elvis]

It's proven that in most walks of life you perform as well as you need to.

Very few swimming world records at set at State Championships, because the good swimmers can cruise to victory without pushing themselves.

Yesterday was no different. We always looked on top, but we rarely got out of second gear - because we didn't need to.

While you always prefer us to be switched on, intense and desperate, it's not that easy to ask an elite sportsperson to perform at their absolute peak when their is both no need to, and no one pushing them to.

You'd rather they went 110% every game, but it's not worth it. Why expend all of your energy and push yourself to the edge this week, when you don't need to, when next week you might.

[Southerntakeover]

Because that's what we're saying, hey?

How else would you take the statement that players arent trying their hardest?

[Southerntakeover]

I'll put it this way. You put it down to a tired team, yet our side looked a hell of a lot more fresh at the end of the game than we have in previous weeks. There was no Andrew McLeod throwing up at 3/4 time, or no gutbusting chases leaving a bloke completely out of puff on the wing. For a side that's tired, if they were giving it their absolute all, as we were against Port, for instance, we'd be noticing MORE of these things, wouldn't you expect.
I just think we're taking it easy right now.
On cruise control.
There were a lot of little examples of players not digging deep that I noticed. One that didn't have any effect on the game, but annoyed me, were a few of our talls failing to make it to the goal-line when Freo were taking a long range set shot. It wasn't fatigue. Anyone can see when it's fatigue and when it's not.

When i say fatigue, i dont just mean physically. Im a firm believer in the idea of mental fatigue, which has numerous effects, for example, it has an effect on decision making, which has been noticably declined the last two weeks. I also dont believe its as easy as saying 'well they were tired during the Port game too', as theres a compound effect for these sorts of thing.

Its been a pretty gruelling month, and i think our injury list has meant that we're playing a few guys who ideally we should have rested at some point, Bassett is probably a good example.

I agree with you that we arent firing on all cylinders. I disagree on the cause. Rather than suggest the players arent trying their hardest, my viewpoint is that we're a team in desperate need of freshing up, and hopefully we'll get that with some players coming back from injury soon, and allowing us to rest some of the worse for wear players.

[King Elvis]

From my perspective, it seems you're agreeing on the issue, but arguing semantics.

[Southerntakeover]

From my perspective, it seems you're agreeing on the issue, but arguing semantics.

Actually, its a pretty important distinction in my eyes.

Suggesting the players arent trying is a personal reflection on them, and their commitment to the club. Different to suggesting they are not at their sharpest as a result of fatigue.

[Dandy_GO]

So you knock my (quite awesome) posts and then turn around trying to tell us this side is in CRUISE CONTROL?! They are playing with no conviction!! That's not cruise control, not at all. Very different. If they were in cruise control they wouldn't hesitate, they wouldn't stutter. That's something very different to cruise control...

To be honest, I haven't read your post. I was about to go out, and wasn't in the mood for wasting my life.

It's proven that in most walks of life you perform as well as you need to.

Very few swimming world records at set at State Championships, because the good swimmers can cruise to victory without pushing themselves.

Yesterday was no different. We always looked on top, but we rarely got out of second gear - because we didn't need to.

While you always prefer us to be switched on, intense and desperate, it's not that easy to ask an elite sportsperson to perform at their absolute peak when their is both no need to, and no one pushing them to.

You'd rather they went 110% every game, but it's not worth it. Why expend all of your energy and push yourself to the edge this week, when you don't need to, when next week you might.

That's pretty much it in a nutshell.
Problem was that it very nearly cost us the game. If not for a couple of lucky breaks with the umpires, we may have been in hot water.

[Dandy_GO]

Actually, its a pretty important distinction in my eyes.

Suggesting the players arent trying is a personal reflection on them, and their commitment to the club. Different to suggesting they are not at their sharpest as a result of fatigue.
As with our whole "soft" argument, I disagree. I'm just trying to suggest they weren't playing with the same amount of passion as they did against, say, Port and West Coast, and I agree more with King Elvis' view on why that is than your own.
And, for what it's worth, nobody suggested they weren't trying at all, as you've conviniently worded it. You can't win a game without trying, but there's a difference between giving it your absolute everything, and what was dished up yesterday.

[Southerntakeover]

As with our whole "soft" argument, I disagree. I'm just trying to suggest they weren't playing with the same amount of passion as they did against, say, Port and West Coast, and I agree more with King Elvis' view on why that is than your own.
And, for what it's worth, nobody suggested they weren't trying at all, as you've conviniently worded it. You can't win a game without trying, but there's a difference between giving it your absolute everything, and what was dished up yesterday.

You're perfectly welcome to disagree with me.

There certainly seems to be a pattern here. I dislike any commentary which i feel boils down to a personal attack, so it probably shouldnt be suprising that ive taken umbrage again. As far what you were or werent suggesting, challenging whether or not a player is trying is to say they were making a conscious effort not to do everything in their power to win. Its a pretty harsh accusation.

As far as Elvis's explanation goes, its got value. It does fall short in its explanatory power of last weeks result though. To be honest, it doesnt have to be one or the other, there are probably numerous factors at play. I dont feel 'not trying' is one of them, but im not going to go back and forwards over it for a long time. Ive said me piece.