Setanta O'hAilpin - struggling

[blues4flag]

After our second win in almost a year, probably too early to be looking at negatives, but I thought one of our glaring weaknesses was Setanta O'hAilpin. There's no room for him in defence, with Waite, Jamieson, Bower and Thornton all performing well at the moment and have gone past him. He played ruck last year, but he is serviceable at best when he's played there.

But for me, the biggest concern is playing him at CHF. He simply cannot play the position. One aspect of his game that has always been a weakness is his marking. For someone playing at CHF, he drops consistently drops marks that you'd expect your CHF to take. And once the ball hits the deck, he's basically out of the contest. When Kreuzer was moved forward, the difference was instantly recognizable. Kreuzer has a presence which Setanta does not - he looks like he'll have an impact, and for a big man, he's as good as any tall once the ball is on the ground.

Although it hurts to say so, it appears that the Irish experiment has failed. I wouldn't go as far as to delist him - he'd be a handy backup if one of our defenders went down with injury (and you'd expect him to continue to improve given he is still learning) - but he is not in our best 22, and Hartlett would be much more serviceable in the side at the moment.

[marcmurphy3]

Definately. Not even close to AFL standard. Hartlett must come in.

[blues4flag]

Seems that I was beaten to it. Mods, please merge.

[blue gunslinger]

- he looks like he'll have an impact, and for a big man, he's as good as any tall once the ball is on the ground.

Although it hurts to say so, it appears that the Irish experiment has failed.

You have to be joking. He was awesome last year and has been crook as!
Give the bloke a chance
Loved it when he jumped in to help Fev take on the world.Had 3 guys in a second.
He is getting his fitness and touch back.
After rnd 1 similar threads said to trade Fev - and where are those posters now?
Setanta is an experiment and he has come on in leaps and bounds. He will be fine.
Anybody else we should get rid of?
Judd did not kick 20 goals today. Should be dump him?

[blues4flag]

You have to be joking. He was awesome last year and has been crook as!
Give the bloke a chance
Loved it when he jumped in to help Fev take on the world.Had 3 guys in a second.
He is getting his fitness and touch back.
After rnd 1 similar threads said to trade Fev - and where are those posters now?
Setanta is an experiment and he has come on in leaps and bounds. He will be fine.
Anybody else we should get rid of?
Judd did not kick 20 goals today. Should be dump him?

Sorry mate - I understand how you feel, but you've got to look past your navy blue goggles. Comparing Setanta to Fev and Judd? :confused: Setanta at his absolute best would struggle to match Judd or Fev on a half decent day. We've seen what Fev can do - hence why many disagree with trading him. Setanta's best would not get him a game in a number of clubs in the competition.

And I'm pretty sure someone mentioned the rumours of Setanta being severely sick were incorrect and that the weight loss was intentional.

[one eyed bluey]

yep agree with the original statement for what ever reason the irish man is struggling.

We really need to find someone to support fev in there.

At the moment its pretty much just fev and fisher,

[AlecDuncan]

Setanta isn't moving as well as he did last year. He looks unusually slow, which we all know he isn't. Whatever the reason I don't think he's right for senior footy at the moment. Let him work his way into form at Preston and then bring him back. Edwards did nothing yesterday, but I thought Hartlett presented well and a hard working, lead-up CHF is what we need.

[tubber]

With 2 people on fev most of the day I thought setanta worked hard to provide another option for us. His work rate and effort in the forward line was great.
he is not having the year he had last year but is being played very differently - haven't seen anything from Hartlett that says he is any better

[bluegal1983]

Hate to say it but I think the Irish experiment may have failed.

Carlos has lost too much size to play KP downback and Jamo has overtaken him already IMO. He simply doesn't have the footy smarts to play CHF either. We don't need him in the ruck.

Hate to say it but I think Kreuz may have taken Carlos' spot.

[cfc_4_ever]

I think he will be our CHF next yr or maybe later in the yr. But right now it aint working. He clearly isnt at his best, in a position he is trying to learn. I think the ants for a couple of weeks. So he can get some feel there and possible get movin. However Harlett should not come in. I think Hamps, should. Cloke and Kruezer both have the ability to play forward. I think it is feasible to rotate Hamps, Krez and Cloke through the ruck, with Kreuz and Cloke going forward. I am not sure how Hamo will go up forward, but i think krez and hamo are our future 1 and 2. So he needs some time in the ruck. I know that it is a bit pie in the sky. The 3 big men running around. 1 would always have to be on the bench, there isnt room for the 3 on the ground. Is there?? But isnt this better than playing someone who is clearly a shadow of himself???

[blue gunslinger]

I gave up on EddieB and he has proven me wrong. Thus I will have faith in Setanta!

[Marc Shmurf 3]

look i continue to support Setanta. Obviously he is struggling ATM and isnt playing anywhere near the standard he set last year. But we need to have patients for a bloke who can run like the wind and is nearly 200cm. Definatley should be dropped this week for Hartlett, but only to get some momentum and his hands on the footy.

[KnockOut]

I think Carlos is out of form and calls of failure are severly premature. How quickly we forget Carlos' glimpses of great footy and focus on the negatives. He looks out of it, slow and disinterested. With Fev in this sort of form and being triple-teamed we need another option up forward, cue Edwards/Hartlet. Edwards is an opportunistic forward and while he was in the side presented very well and will take alot of the pressure of Fevola.

Let Irish play himself into form at Preston and recapture some interest and passion, the book is still well and truly open on his success/failure.

[The_Groscz]

If Setanta works on his basic skills, especially kicking, he will be an OK tall with some athleticism at best..But he is embarrassing at times and gets totally found out against quality opposition (like all crap players), and his role will be questioned over the next few weeks as other young tools with more 'innate' footy smarts press for selection.

[Azzurri Blues]

After our second win in almost a year, probably too early to be looking at negatives, but I thought one of our glaring weaknesses was Setanta O'hAilpin. There's no room for him in defence, with Waite, Jamieson, Bower and Thornton all performing well at the moment and have gone past him. He played ruck last year, but he is serviceable at best when he's played there.

But for me, the biggest concern is playing him at CHF. He simply cannot play the position. One aspect of his game that has always been a weakness is his marking. For someone playing at CHF, he drops consistently drops marks that you'd expect your CHF to take. And once the ball hits the deck, he's basically out of the contest. When Kreuzer was moved forward, the difference was instantly recognizable. Kreuzer has a presence which Setanta does not - he looks like he'll have an impact, and for a big man, he's as good as any tall once the ball is on the ground.

Although it hurts to say so, it appears that the Irish experiment has failed. I wouldn't go as far as to delist him - he'd be a handy backup if one of our defenders went down with injury (and you'd expect him to continue to improve given he is still learning) - but he is not in our best 22, and Hartlett would be much more serviceable in the side at the moment.

couldn't agree with you more... good post... i was thinking this all game... he is just not clean enough when the ball hits the deck... he doesn't use his height well and can't pack mark... we have no depth so we have to keep him.... hartlett should come in for him next week...

[Azzurri Blues]

- he looks like he'll have an impact, and for a big man, he's as good as any tall once the ball is on the ground.

Although it hurts to say so, it appears that the Irish experiment has failed.

You have to be joking. He was awesome last year and has been crook as!
Give the bloke a chance
Loved it when he jumped in to help Fev take on the world.Had 3 guys in a second.
He is getting his fitness and touch back.
After rnd 1 similar threads said to trade Fev - and where are those posters now?
Setanta is an experiment and he has come on in leaps and bounds. He will be fine.
Anybody else we should get rid of?
Judd did not kick 20 goals today. Should be dump him?


would he play for any other team from the top 8... i don't think so... he is serviceable nothing more nothing less... i dont care how far he has come along... we don't owe him any favours...

by the way, i would kep judd....

[sticks74]

Time to let Setanta and his brother go...

We needed this experiment but its time to let them go!

Never going to set the world on fire so would look to move them on at the end of the year...

[Feva]

With 2 people on fev most of the day I thought setanta worked hard to provide another option for us. His work rate and effort in the forward line was great.
he is not having the year he had last year but is being played very differently - haven't seen anything from Hartlett that says he is any better

Hartlett looked good preseason against both Freo and Bulldogs. Presented well and was kicking goals.

Dominated yesterday for the Bullants and must come in. Setanta has great passion but does not have a footy brain and his kicking is woeful - two things that are very hard to teach at this stage.

Our future is Hartlett and Edwards so we must play them.

[BLue_Bloys]

Hartlett in Setanta out.

Hartlett cannot be any worse than Setanta has been. Hartlett has nothing to gain now by playing VFL and Setanta will become the focal point up forward which may help him playing the position.

[DIG]

Yeah after today they might have to seriously reconsider the setanta up forward experiment, although we're running out of positions to try him in. Hartlett has been ok the past fortnight, his first half vs Tassie especially was good. Gotta be a chance.

I think some of yous are prematurely writing him off completely tho.

He's had a shit pre-season cos of his illness or whatever it was that caused him to look like a bloody rake, he's only played the game the last few years so his development stage is more similar to someone a few years younger, plus talls always take longer to develop.

What does worry me is the development of his ball skills seems to have stagnated, so maybe some time in the bullants would be good for him and then we can see where he's at.

Like someone said too our depth is still thin so we'll need him on the list for a while yet regardless.

[Jimthegreat]

Normally I have not problems with him at CHF but he started this year many kgs light for some reason. If it was because of illness he won't play well at all this year. Won't have the strength he normally has. Have to live with what he has for much of this year, whether in the one's or two's. Showed last year he could play both ends and pinch hit in the ruck (even if success there was moderate) so he'll will be good for us going forward the next few years. Might have to be patient this year though.

[gbatman]

Well he was a hurler, not a footballer. Was a big gamble, i think he should be back in the reserves and hartlett should be in.

He has just got to go back to the reserves and work on the little things in his game like marking over head and with out stretched arms. Should play FF/ CHF in the reserves for full games. If he's good enough he'll get back into the Blues.

[TheGeneral]

C'mon Parrot, tell us why he isn't playing well. :)

[wdgann]

If people can't see Setanta's potential, they are plain blind. For a start, he kicks the ball better than most in our team and hasn't been playing the game for long. Secondly, he is fast, athletic and gives more than 100%. His marking clearly needs improving but he is not far off being a top line player. I also like his second efforts

This board amazes me - people support guys like Thornton that are not only deficient but have no potential because of size and athletic limitations

[Mike_blues]

hes struggling but i wouldnt say the irish experiment has failed

[Matt72]

What do all the other Irish AFL players have in common (apart from Stynes)?
Sean Wight, Tadgh Kennealy, Colm Begley, etc? They all play off the half back line or deeper in defence. Not one of them has been played as an attacking forward. Setanta was a much better player last season because he had a job to do. He had an opponent to watch and to stop. For someone who hasn't grown up playing AFL it is always going to be harder to be a forward and try to make the play than it is to watch an opponent and try to stop him.
If he doesn't play in the backline then he isn't in our top 22. If he plays as a tall half back he is.

[as0l0]

I'm a huge fan and supporter of Setanta, but I think he looked a little lost on the weekend. On the plus side, he seemed better toward the end of the game. I noticed that he seemed to be staying inside the 50, and I'm wondering if it would make a difference if he played more as a CHF. Operating 50m outside the 50 as Eddie did a few weeks back might work better?

Also, did anyone notice the 150m line on the weekend? Was that a misprint or has it always been like that?

[thylacine60]

I'm a huge fan and supporter of Setanta, but I think he looked a little lost on the weekend. On the plus side, he seemed better toward the end of the game. I noticed that he seemed to be staying inside the 50, and I'm wondering if it would make a difference if he played more as a CHF. Operating 50m outside the 50 as Eddie did a few weeks back might work better?

Also, did anyone notice the 150m line on the weekend? Was that a misprint or has it always been like that?

Not having a go but it's amazing the number of people who can't link that to the 150 year celebrations of the AFL.

[Brighton_Diggins]

[/b]

Not having a go but it's amazing the number of people who can't link that to the 150 year celebrations of the AFL.

I was confused for about 10 secs ... then the penny dropped.
Nice touch.

I'm hoping Fev celebrates with as many goals.

As for the big Irish fella.?
Still clinging to a spot. But as the team becomes
more successful he may find it tough.
Love his passion, loves his effort....
But is that gonna be enough?
For mine he's simply running out of position options...
bit like musical chairs....

[Charbzilla]

How can you deem it failure when he has improved considerably?

His learning curve has been massive. They'll go back, look at tapes and he will learn from them with regards to decision making and helping out teammates by creating space for Fev, etc.

I thought his disposal was good.
Are you going to delist Carrazzo because his kicking isnt Judd-like?

Calls for delisting Carlos are silly. If anything, he adds depth, if Hartlett can step up and hold the CHF spot (im STILL waiting!)
But in saying that. i think CLOkE should cement it as his own after his very servicable performances.

[blues_future]

What do all the other Irish AFL players have in common (apart from Stynes)?
Sean Wight, Tadgh Kennealy, Colm Begley, etc? They all play off the half back line or deeper in defence. Not one of them has been played as an attacking forward. Setanta was a much better player last season because he had a job to do. He had an opponent to watch and to stop. For someone who hasn't grown up playing AFL it is always going to be harder to be a forward and try to make the play than it is to watch an opponent and try to stop him.
If he doesn't play in the backline then he isn't in our top 22. If he plays as a tall half back he is.

Top post - move Setanta to the backline - give him a chance

[WalkerTexasRanger]

After our second win in almost a year, probably too early to be looking at negatives, but I thought one of our glaring weaknesses was Setanta O'hAilpin. There's no room for him in defence, with Waite, Jamieson, Bower and Thornton all performing well at the moment and have gone past him. He played ruck last year, but he is serviceable at best when he's played there.

But for me, the biggest concern is playing him at CHF. He simply cannot play the position. One aspect of his game that has always been a weakness is his marking. For someone playing at CHF, he drops consistently drops marks that you'd expect your CHF to take. And once the ball hits the deck, he's basically out of the contest. When Kreuzer was moved forward, the difference was instantly recognizable. Kreuzer has a presence which Setanta does not - he looks like he'll have an impact, and for a big man, he's as good as any tall once the ball is on the ground.

Although it hurts to say so, it appears that the Irish experiment has failed. I wouldn't go as far as to delist him - he'd be a handy backup if one of our defenders went down with injury (and you'd expect him to continue to improve given he is still learning) - but he is not in our best 22, and Hartlett would be much more serviceable in the side at the moment.


He is no good up forward...I still think he can play defence because he is quick and can judge the ball well in flight (but as you say there is no real room for him there).

Up forward, he doesn't know when to lead properly, he looks less hungry for the ball and he clogs Fev's space time and time again. I was surprised that Fev didn't give him a spray for it yesterday.

[Brighton_Diggins]

better hurry up carlos ... 'positions vacant' in the back line
are slowly disappearing.

[as0l0]

Not having a go but it's amazing the number of people who can't link that to the 150 year celebrations of the AFL.

I never even considered that :o Thanks mate.

[setanta17]

well hartlett only kicked 2 in the weekend in the vfl and i dont think edwards kicked any.

but i think that hartlett should still come in for setanta as he has no confidence at the moment and he is in a bad form slump.

i say play in the vfl for 5-6 weeks in the forward line and let teague and lapping work with him.

[Matt72]

well hartlett only kicked 2 in the weekend in the vfl and i dont think edwards kicked any.

but i think that hartlett should still come in for setanta as he has no confidence at the moment and he is in a bad form slump.

i say play in the vfl for 5-6 weeks in the forward line and let teague and lapping work with him.

Thats not a bad ploy. It's worth a shot. Much better teaching him how to play the position at that level than in the top flight.

[pumped]

I believe that Setanta has already in his career shown that he is up to standard. I don't believe the forward line is for him. Also believe that whatevfer his pre season illness was is still affecting him.

Would run him as a running half back or even on the wing for a little while or perhaps even stints as a ruck rover. Re Hartlett don't believe he has shown anywhere near as much as Setanta either in AFL or VFL.

[Jezza U Beauty]

I think most of us are happy to be patient and give Carlos a bit more time to keep developing, but right at the minute i get the feeling we'd be better served by bringing Hartlett in as the extra marking option in the fwd line. I liked what i saw in round 1, and going by what's been posted by people on here that have seen him in the Ants the signs are good from him.

[blues4flag]

What do all the other Irish AFL players have in common (apart from Stynes)?
Sean Wight, Tadgh Kennealy, Colm Begley, etc? They all play off the half back line or deeper in defence. Not one of them has been played as an attacking forward. Setanta was a much better player last season because he had a job to do. He had an opponent to watch and to stop. For someone who hasn't grown up playing AFL it is always going to be harder to be a forward and try to make the play than it is to watch an opponent and try to stop him.
If he doesn't play in the backline then he isn't in our top 22. If he plays as a tall half back he is.

But who would he replace in defence? At the moment, we've got Bower, Thornton, Jamison and Waite as our talls - I'd have them all in front of him, on potential or current form, and we don't need a fifth tall, particularly as Setanta can only play tall, whereas the first three mentioned above can play on tall and medium forwards.

I'd have him as a reserve player in case one of the above got injured, but I don't see where he fits in the 22. It's all well and good to say he deserves his spot, but not up forward, but for who?

[Matt72]

But who would he replace in defence? At the moment, we've got Bower, Thornton, Jamison and Waite as our talls - I'd have them all in front of him, on potential or current form, and we don't need a fifth tall, particularly as Setanta can only play tall, whereas the first three mentioned above can play on tall and medium forwards.

I'd have him as a reserve player in case one of the above got injured, but I don't see where he fits in the 22. It's all well and good to say he deserves his spot, but not up forward, but for who?

I dunno if I agree that Bower plays tall.
If you look at it like this;
Waite and Jamison pick up tall forwards 1 & 2
Thornton picks up short forward at half back
Setanta plays CHB
Bower half back
Scotland playing the sweeping role
Maybe Setanta picks up the opposition ruckman drifting forward.
I think that his run is underestimated

[blues4flag]

I dunno if I agree that Bower plays tall.
If you look at it like this;
Waite and Jamison pick up tall forwards 1 & 2
Thornton picks up short forward at half back
Setanta plays CHB
Bower half back
Scotland playing the sweeping role
Maybe Setanta picks up the opposition ruckman drifting forward.
I think that his run is underestimated

Bower did play on Cloke a fortnight ago against Collingwood, and did very well. I'd have Waite at CHB - he is without a doubt better on a lead then Setanta and a better match for Riewoldt, Pavlich etc. in my opinion, plus his run is better than that of Setanta's. Jamieson I'd play at FB, where he's been doing well thus far. One of Bower or Thornton take the third tall, the other on a medium or small. Can't imagine any team going in with more than 3 talls at a time up forward, and we've got 3 or 4 who can take talls. I understand the romance of wanting Setanta to make it, but at the moment, I have my doubts.