View Full Version : Our backline leaks like a sieve!
ReservoirDog
20 Apr 2008, 19:58
We need Williams and Everitt back desperately. Watching Richo tear us a new one(like he always does), frustrates the hell out of me. We are an average team punching above our weight.
gridlocked
20 Apr 2008, 20:01
We need Williams and Everitt back desperately. Watching Richo tear us a new one(like he always does), frustrates the hell out of me. 25192
.
Settle down.
To be honest, Williams and Everitt wont stop many more goals, but will provide more attacking options out of defence.
DexterTan
20 Apr 2008, 20:08
Gawd, imagine the reaction from the glass-is-half-empty people if the dogs had lost the game!!! To come back from 19 points down with 10 mins to go is bloody awesome. Cross's goal from the boundary line is underestimated and Minson's ice cool set shot goal was awesome. If you will blame anyone it's the forward line which doesn't keep the ball in the forward 50 and midfield who turn the ball over regularly and puts pressure on the backline.
Bring on the weagles!
lindsay_bulldogs
20 Apr 2008, 20:12
Gawd, imagine the reaction from the glass-is-half-empty people if the dogs had lost the game!!! To come back from 19 points down with 10 mins to go is bloody awesome. Cross's goal from the boundary line is underestimated and Minson's ice cool set shot goal was awesome. If you will blame anyone it's the forward line which doesn't keep the ball in the forward 50 and midfield who turn the ball over regularly and puts pressure on the backline.
Bring on the weagles!
Forward line was good except for Welsh and his kicking. Midfield was also good and put pressure on all day. Respect must be given to the Tigers they played well and have a very good game plan that Eade and the other coaches did not see, ignored or just had nothing to combat it. Backline was rubbish and leaks like a sieve. When all is said and done the difference was the backlines we were constantly forced wide and they weren't.
DexterTan
20 Apr 2008, 20:17
Backline can't do much if the midfield doesn't stop the opposition pumping the ball forward! And it may sound like nothing but Welsh missing 5 set shots for goal is unforgivable. Can't blame the backline for that!
cosmicr
20 Apr 2008, 20:19
yeah I have to disagree as well. based on todays performance, it was our forward line and midfield that let us down.
OldSchool
20 Apr 2008, 20:19
We need Williams and Everitt back desperately. Watching Richo tear us a new one(like he always does), frustrates the hell out of me. We are an average team punching above our weight.
You might have to wait for a while. Neither is ready to come into the team just yet.
bradism
20 Apr 2008, 20:20
Williams and Everrit have less than 20 games experience combined, they have potential but they're not yet great defenders.
I just want to know why Lake couldn't have run with Richardson all day, instead of zoning him with BJ or whoever in the midfield. Doesn't Eade trust shaggy, morris etc down there without him?
I also notice that every time we play a loose man in defense we tend to get damaged by the opponents loose man exceedingly more than the value our loose man provides.
#1 Dogs Fan
20 Apr 2008, 20:23
Gawd, imagine the reaction from the glass-is-half-empty people if the dogs had lost the game!!! To come back from 19 points down with 10 mins to go is bloody awesome. Cross's goal from the boundary line is underestimated and Minson's ice cool set shot goal was awesome. If you will blame anyone it's the forward line which doesn't keep the ball in the forward 50 and midfield who turn the ball over regularly and puts pressure on the backline.
Bring on the weagles!
Agree and this has been our problem for years now I mean years. We are great offensively but our defensive aspect of our game is an up and down roller coaster ride every week.
Dogs Rule
20 Apr 2008, 20:24
You might have to wait for a while. Neither is ready to come into the team just yet.
Surely Everitt is ready? He played for Williamstown yesterday, and I would have thought he would be strongly considered next week.
The_Bulldogs_Bite
20 Apr 2008, 20:30
I also notice that every time we play a loose man in defense we tend to get damaged by the opponents loose man exceedingly more than the value our loose man provides.
Yep, happens far too often.
Eade made a bad mistake to leave Richo un-marked for most of the game. Richo provided drive off their half backline & picked up a few marks off our kicks. The one time Richo was made accountable in defence was when Harris took that brilliant pack mark.
No idea why this was allowed, it killed us, especially as the forwards & midfielders weren't picking up their men. Looked as though The Tiges had two or three spare every time.
Yep, happens far too often.
Eade made a bad mistake to leave Richo un-marked for most of the game. Richo provided drive off their half backline & picked up a few marks off our kicks. The one time Richo was made accountable in defence was when Harris took that brilliant pack mark.
No idea why this was allowed, it killed us, especially as the forwards & midfielders weren't picking up their men. Looked as though The Tiges had two or three spare every time.
My thoughts exactly. I was happy for Richo to be on the wing or in defense but not by himself. Needed to make him accountable. Harris had to stay in back line though.It's where he is needed most.( We don't have a Grant or Hawkins to play loose in defense with intelligence these days)
I agree with some that our backline is sometimes made to look bad by the lack of pressure through the middle of the ground - been happening for ages and was the reason for Saints first quarter and the Bombers 3rd. Tigers were able to run untouched through the centre 50 and kicked well to moving targets in space.
However, our backs ( especially Hargrave ) do play off their opponents too much and allow too many chest marks. My biggest problem with the backs is the number of goals we allow in the goal square from crumbing. We need to address that.
That being said, as much as Everitt and Williams excite us, they didn't exactly prove their defensive qualities last year. It was more about half back run. I just think we need an expert defensive coach who can teach our backs good defensive positioning.
Snagboy
20 Apr 2008, 22:30
Whilst we do not have a CHB & we do need key talls. Today was a case of our players being out of position ( running forward) and turning the ball over across half forward. Most of their goals were scored on the rebound.
We butchered delivery to our forwards after 1/4 time.
Williams & Everitt will be back
IMO the only players who should ever be allowed to be the loose man in defence is Lake and Gilbee.
Lake for his marking.
Gilbee for his rebound
The_Bulldogs_Bite
20 Apr 2008, 22:50
IMO the only players who should ever be allowed to be the loose man in defence is Lake and Gilbee.
Lake for his marking.
Gilbee for his rebound
Yep.
Hargrave had no idea and positioned himself completely wrong as the spare man in the last quarter. Gilbee & Harris are the only two who can effectively play that role.
boydsno1
20 Apr 2008, 23:05
lake kicked a goal today and took a great pack mark for the minson leveler. also heard lake did his hamstring which is why he couldn't take his kick. hope thats not the case. if so either williams or everitt would be rushed in but doogs would be an option also as his our only one with strength.
AngeloPetraglia
20 Apr 2008, 23:20
The last two Richmond goals were both goal mouth scrambles where that should not have been allowed to happen, in particular the Simmonds goal.
Last year we were terrible at allowing those goals in. This year we have been much better but today it cost us.
We kicked 6 out of the last 8 goals. The two we conceded against the trend of play really cost us in the finish.
Before I Die
21 Apr 2008, 00:12
Surely Everitt is ready? He played for Williamstown yesterday, and I would have thought he would be strongly considered next week.
He has played one game since Christmas and by all accounts it was a pretty ordinary one. Last year he looked good but was never dominating and never played KPP. Yes he is the future, we don't give out number 3 lightly, but he is not yet the equivalent of Matthew Scarlett and an automatic selection even when only half fit. We are undefeated, other than Scott West and maybe Farren Ray, players seeking promotion (including Everitt and Williams) will need to earn their places by consistent strong showings at Williamstown. Everitt is not the Messiah, he is a kid with great potential. Building him up as some great stopper just sets him up for a fall later on, and we have all seen how fast this board can turn into ravenous mob when scapegoat is on the menu.
Today I thought our main problem was again midfield pressure. Shoot outs will always be lotteries and today was a classic example.
Bulldogs Roar
21 Apr 2008, 13:52
We need Williams and Everitt back desperately. Watching Richo tear us a new one(like he always does), frustrates the hell out of me. We are an average team punching above our weight.
Finally someone sees it like i have.
I'm not one to bag my own team and i'm just stating the facts, we are one of the highest scoring teams in the AFL and have been for the psat 4 - 5 seasons, however all the talk over the trade period was how we need a foward line???
We should have traded agressively to imporove our backline as this has been our weakness for quite a while.
Correct me if i'm wrong
Benno From Berwick
21 Apr 2008, 13:57
It was the lack of pressure from the mid field. Richmond were allowed to do what they pleased. We were lucky to get a draw.....Richmond Choked.....they have to live with that.....we need a kick up the back side.....
always right
21 Apr 2008, 14:03
Finally someone sees it like i have.
I'm not one to bag my own team and i'm just stating the facts, we are one of the highest scoring teams in the AFL and have been for the psat 4 - 5 seasons, however all the talk over the trade period was how we need a foward line???
We should have traded agressively to imporove our backline as this has been our weakness for quite a while.
Correct me if i'm wrong
You're wrong.
No defence will stand up to an opposition who are allowed to run it through the corridor unchallenged....as was the case yesterday.
Having said that, I'm getting a little tired seeing players like Lake and Shaggy letting their opponents run meters in front in the forlorn hope the ball is going to come over the top. Credit to Cam Wight, Tim Callan and Dale Morris in this regard. Always make a contest in a marking duel.
lindsay_bulldogs
21 Apr 2008, 14:15
You're wrong.
No defence will stand up to an opposition who are allowed to run it through the corridor unchallenged....as was the case yesterday.
Having said that, I'm getting a little tired seeing players like Lake and Shaggy letting their opponents run meters in front in the forlorn hope the ball is going to come over the top. Credit to Cam Wight, Tim Callan and Dale Morris in this regard. Always make a contest in a marking duel.
Considering we had more scoring shots which backline was under more pressure? Seriously thought that both teams had there share off the ball in the middle. Backline is below average when it comes to stopping the opposition scoring. Look at the against telly and then come back and argue how good we are in the back line. We are in the bottom four for backlines. Good teams weather the storm whilst the opposition is running hot and that is what makes Geelong so hard to beat even if the mids off the opposition have purple patches the backline still manages to keep the damage to a minimum.
First thing for backs is to stop there players. Really is Richmonds forwards that good? Richo wasn't even there most off the time. Seriously that is our biggest weakness besides another genuine quick in the middle.
always right
21 Apr 2008, 14:19
Considering we had more scoring shots which backline was under more pressure? Seriously thought that both teams had there share off the ball in the middle. Backline is below average when it comes to stopping the opposition scoring. Look at the against telly and then come back and argue how good we are in the back line. We are in the bottom four for backlines. Good teams weather the storm whilst the opposition is running hot and that is what makes Geelong so hard to beat even if the mids off the opposition have purple patches the backline still manages to keep the damage to a minimum.
First thing for backs is to stop there players. Really is Richmonds forwards that good? Richo wasn't even there most off the time. Seriously that is our biggest weakness besides another genuine quick in the middle.
I'm not arguing that our defence doesn't need to improve...on the contrary. One question though...how many times did we bring the ball through the corridor with no pressure compared to Richmond? I think you know the answer.
lindsay_bulldogs
21 Apr 2008, 14:33
I'm not arguing that our defence doesn't need to improve...on the contrary. One question though...how many times did we bring the ball through the corridor with no pressure compared to Richmond? I think you know the answer.
I thought Richmond used there pace to break up the lines. I also saw there game plan which was turning into a pattern that would be obvious to most people.
From a kick out bring to the flank look for a clear option in the corridor. If no option in the corridor kick backward across goal and open up the other flank looking for a clear option down the wing or back into the corridor. Did this all game and 65% off the game it worked. A lot off the time Richmond ran to space and created options we could not go with them. Some say unaccountable football I say a lot off it was too slow either to respond or make up ground to force a contest. Mids need to get some pace and back line needs to improve. If we have loose players in defence like we did I would rather they came up field to the middle than float around lost in defence.
I keep on hearing about a kid with pace called Callan Ward.
If young Callan is traveling OK at Willy, I think he should be seriously considered to come in for possibly Harbrow.
Because to many tiger midfeilders were after getting the ball burning off our midfielders.
The Standfield Principle
22 Apr 2008, 20:03
Williams and Everrit have less than 20 games experience combined, they have potential but they're not yet great defenders.
I just want to know why Lake couldn't have run with Richardson all day, instead of zoning him with BJ or whoever in the midfield. Doesn't Eade trust shaggy, morris etc down there without him?
I also notice that every time we play a loose man in defense we tend to get damaged by the opponents loose man exceedingly more than the value our loose man provides.
Very Very astute. if the loose man isnt Gilbee then we shouldnt have a loose man
Griffs_Revenge
22 Apr 2008, 21:40
Surely Everitt is ready? He played for Williamstown yesterday, and I would have thought he would be strongly considered next week.
Everitt had his first game for Willy this week but he was actually quite poor. He will need several weeks as will Williams at Willy. West will come straight back this week and Farren Ray played quite well so should not be far away from getting promoted.
If the loose man isnt Gilbee then we shouldnt have a loose man
Agreed. Hargrave playing loose just means we are playing a man down. I get the feeling he could be under a bit of pressure if Everitt and Williams get up and firing.
bulldogsman
23 Apr 2008, 23:01
I keep on hearing about a kid with pace called Callan Ward.
If young Callan is traveling OK at Willy, I think he should be seriously considered to come in for possibly Harbrow.
Because to many tiger midfeilders were after getting the ball burning off our midfielders.
I heard different, i thought his pace was fairly average.
Agreed. Hargrave playing loose just means we are playing a man down. I get the feeling he could be under a bit of pressure if Everitt and Williams get up and firing.
I think you are dead right "Butane"
I think he will be an outsider looking in during the final's.
I heard different, i thought his pace was fairly average.
Thts why I revised and am opting for Farren Ray to come in for Johnno this week, and give Westy another week to recuperate.
Conceding so many goals, mainly comes down to 1 thing, MIDFIELD PRESSURE. In the first quarter against St Kilda there was no midfield pressure and they looked like kicking 20+ goals, after quarter time this changed and their forwards all of a sudden didn't look so good!
I'm always reading that players such as Eagle and Ray must come in to the side and that we should drop players such as Addison & Callan, we cant have too many of the same type of player in our side. Addison & Callan add accountability/hardness to our side.
Gia, Eagle, Ray(when playing) and even Scotty West, probably need to put more defensive pressure on the opposition midfield at times, especially the first 3 mentioned.
Mcmahon leaving was no great loss, as although his run & attack from the backline was good, his defensive pressure/hardness was not great.
Also, it is no coincidence that when Nathan Brown left the team improved, as he might kick his 3-4 goals a game but wouldn't tackle/chase.
We replaced him with Matty Robbins upp forward, who might not kick as many goals, but did all the 1%s.
The forwards also need to apply defensive pressure to their direct opponents, to prevent the ball going to the opposition forwards too quickly.
BOOMA BULLDOGS
24 Apr 2008, 12:07
Conceding so many goals, mainly comes down to 1 thing, MIDFIELD PRESSURE. In the first quarter against St Kilda there was no midfield pressure and they looked like kicking 20+ goals, after quarter time this changed and their forwards all of a sudden didn't look so good!
I'm always reading that players such as Eagle and Ray must come in to the side and that we should drop players such as Addison & Callan, we cant have too many of the same type of player in our side. Addison & Callan add accountability/hardness to our side.
Gia, Eagle, Ray(when playing) and even Scotty West, probably need to put more defensive pressure on the opposition midfield at times, especially the first 3 mentioned.
Mcmahon leaving was no great loss, as although his run & attack from the backline was good, his defensive pressure/hardness was not great.
Also, it is no coincidence that when Nathan Brown left the team improved, as he might kick his 3-4 goals a game but wouldn't tackle/chase.
We replaced him with Matty Robbins upp forward, who might not kick as many goals, but did all the 1%s.
The forwards also need to apply defensive pressure to their direct opponents, to prevent the ball going to the opposition forwards too quickly.
GEE, where are u coaching this year?
Not coaching this year Booma, missed the pre-season due to my overseas adventure! Maybe again next year!
ReservoirDog
25 May 2008, 22:28
Bump. We continually get pumped by hacks like Petrie and Thompson. Don't tell me you didn't see it coming, it happens every year. :thumbsd:
tassiedog
25 May 2008, 22:30
Played 9 lost 1
Get a grip people
BenMacAn
25 May 2008, 22:58
Bump. We continually get pumped by hacks like Petrie and Thompson. Don't tell me you didn't see it coming, it happens every year. :thumbsd:
Our backline is not the problem but Rocket gets beaten by Laidley a lot with the moves of Petrie it happened last year but we let it happened by not changing our game plan when it does which comes back to the coach. I love rocket as our coach and he has got over the saints, swans and crows as boggy sides this year but Laidley still has his measure.
Go Doggies
dales.girl38
25 May 2008, 23:02
Bump. We continually get pumped by hacks like Petrie and Thompson. Don't tell me you didn't see it coming, it happens every year. :thumbsd:
Well don't tell me you saw 7-1-1 coming either...
Calling Thompson and Petrie hacks isn't going to get you very far, if they're hacks then what does that make our boys? I thought a few of our defenders won on the night, and a few had shockers, but don't for a second blame them for the loss, at the end of the day our forwards were worse than our defenders.
lindsay_bulldogs
30 May 2008, 13:27
Yep until a few players down there like Wight and Williams can stop the 2nd or 3rd tall we won't go far in Semptember.
Bodicifer
30 May 2008, 14:06
Bump. We continually get pumped by hacks like Petrie and Thompson. Don't tell me you didn't see it coming, it happens every year. :thumbsd:
I would have Thompson at our club any day...he certainly isn't a hack. I wouldn't have Petrie but he isn't a hack either. Hacks dont kick six in a quarter.
Our backline seems to be asleep early on. I think Harris needs to be given a job right from the start to get his concentration up rather than playing second man up.
We play a free running game. Granted it's a little tighter this year but still we kick big scores(The biggest scores). There are negatives to
this though. I reckon we are doing pretty well considering.
This is the best way to rank back lines.
Conceded inside 50's per goal to the opposition.
1) Sydney: 4.3
2) Geelong: 4.0
3) Adelaide: 3.9
4) North M: 3.8
5) Brisbane: 3.5
5) Richmond: 3.5
5) WestCoast: 3.5
8) Collingwood: 3.4
8) Fremantle: 3.4
10) Bulldogs: 3.3
10) Carlton: 3.3
10) Melbourne: 3.3
13) Hawthorn: 3.2
14) St Kilda: 3.2
15) Essendon: 3.1
16) Port Adel: 3.0
lindsay_bulldogs
30 May 2008, 15:21
We play a free running game. Granted it's a little tighter this year but still we kick big scores(The biggest scores). There are negatives to
this though. I reckon we are doing pretty well considering.
This is the best way to rank back lines.
Conceded inside 50's per goal to the opposition.
1) Sydney: 4.3
2) Geelong: 4.0
3) Adelaide: 3.9
4) North M: 3.8
5) Brisbane: 3.5
5) Richmond: 3.5
5) WestCoast: 3.5
8) Collingwood: 3.4
8) Fremantle: 3.4
10) Bulldogs: 3.3
10) Carlton: 3.3
10) Melbourne: 3.3
13) Hawthorn: 3.2
14) St Kilda: 3.2
15) Essendon: 3.1
16) Port Adel: 3.0
Ouch! Just proves the point really.
gridlocked
30 May 2008, 16:25
We are better than the Hawthorn, which is quite interesting.
Yep until a few players down there like Wight and Williams can stop the 2nd or 3rd tall we won't go far in Semptember.
Is Brian Lake a protected species ?
Like Lara Bingle said in the tourist adds promoting Australia to the Pom's.
"Where the bloody hell are you"
I've been asking myself that about Brian when I've watched tall opposition forwards getting cheap marks near their goals.
I'm sick of Wight and Williams copping all the blame for something that is as much Brian's problem as well.
Is Brian Lake a protected species ?
Like Lara Bingle said in the tourist adds promoting Australia to the Pom's.
"Where the bloody hell are you"
I've been asking myself that about Brian when I've watched tall opposition forwards getting cheap marks near their goals.
I'm sick of Wight and Williams copping all the blame for something that is as much Brian's problem as well.
In all honesty, I haven't noticed it at all. But I have noticed Wight and William s make defensive errors. Goes with out saying though that they are less experienced.
bludger
30 May 2008, 21:50
When do we say someone isn't experienced though Butane?
Not having a go at you but Wighty has been around the traps long enough now hasn't he? I am not sure his mistakes are through a lack of experience, maybe through a lack of footy-smarts. I am guessing but Cameron must be close to 50 games now surely.
bludger
30 May 2008, 22:02
just checked Cameron has played 35 games.
DogsRuleWstNoBul
10 Aug 2008, 19:01
Still leaking. Worst Backline in the 8.
The Boy From Brasil
10 Aug 2008, 19:04
Still leaking. Worst Backline in the 8.
Agree. It is our achilles heel for sure.
We just have to hope our midfield dominates in the finals so that the ball doesn't go down our defensive end, and we don't have to worry about our backline.
DogsRuleWstNoBul
10 Aug 2008, 19:07
Sick off seeing Lake, Gilbee and co with hands on there head with there player 30 mtrs in the clear taking an uncontested mark.
Agree. It is our achilles heel for sure.
We just have to hope our midfield dominates in the finals so that the ball doesn't go down our defensive end, and we don't have to worry about our backline.
The lack of pressure from our midfield and half forwards doesn't help our backline when the ball gets delivered on a plate to leading forwards. That said, our backs have been lazy lately playing off their opponents and giving them a headstart. It's a worry we miss a kid who has played a dozen games of football so much but while Williams was in our side we were conceding about 6 less goals a game and the media ( not that I listen to them much) were praising our back 6. He took pressure off Hargrave and Morris and Lake wasn't one against 3 talls playing a zone to cover them all but beating none.
We are in big trouble if we can't get him back in for the finals.
DogsRuleWstNoBul
10 Aug 2008, 19:39
The lack of pressure from our midfield and half forwards doesn't help our backline when the ball gets delivered on a plate to leading forwards. That said, our backs have been lazy lately playing off their opponents and giving them a headstart. It's a worry we miss a kid who has played a dozen games of football so much but while Williams was in our side we were conceding about 6 less goals a game and the media ( not that I listen to them much) were praising our back 6. He took pressure off Hargrave and Morris and Lake wasn't one against 3 talls playing a zone to cover them all but beating none.
We are in big trouble if we can't get him back in for the finals.
Lets not forget Tim Callan has added a bit as well. Been missing him these last few weeks.
Super 27
10 Aug 2008, 20:06
missing addison doesn't help either
we can't even Rush a Behind properly!!
2 efforts in front of me where we (Gilbee and Ward IIRC) didn't make the distance with the handball and the ball was snaffled by the Roos for a goal.:thumbsd: