View Full Version : We need a CHF
BLue_Bloys
20 Apr 2008, 21:24
If it wasn't already obvious that we lack a genuine CHF today was the sealer.
If we had of had a genuine CHF playing today we would have gone into 1/2 time at least 10 goals in front.
Setanta has had a poor start to the season, I feel he needs time in the reserves to become the main focus up forward. Hartlett should be brought in, I saw glimpses of yesterdays game whilst at work and he looked good.
Other options Kruzer, Cloke and Fisher yet again none are genuine CHF's
Haven't seen a lot of Bullants games so what do people think of either Edwards or Austin?
Going into round 6, Hartlett must be brought in, Adelaide will rebound with accuracy if we continue to go to Fev outnumbered or Setanta who was unable to take a contested mark.
Mr.Kennedy
20 Apr 2008, 21:39
If it wasn't already obvious that we lack a genuine CHF today was the sealer.
If we had of had a genuine CHF playing today we would have gone into 1/2 time at least 10 goals in front.
Setanta has had a poor start to the season, I feel he needs time in the reserves to become the main focus up forward. Hartlett should be brought in, I saw glimpses of yesterdays game whilst at work and he looked good.
Other options Kruzer, Cloke and Fisher yet again none are genuine CHF's
Haven't seen a lot of Bullants games so what do people think of either Edwards or Austin?
Going into round 6, Hartlett must be brought in, Adelaide will rebound with accuracy if we continue to go to Fev outnumbered or Setanta who was unable to take a contested mark.You wont get many arguments
dirk pitt
20 Apr 2008, 21:40
What he said.
Agreed. Hartlett needs to come in this week. Sure, Carlos gives it his all, but he is just having a run of outs at the moment. Certainly time for Hartlett to be given another chance at AFL level.
Last time he played at the 'G he did ok. Pity he got himself reported and had a holiday for 2 weeks.
blues4flag
20 Apr 2008, 21:43
Exactly - Harts must come in for Setanta. Although I'm liking what Kreuzer does in his short stints up forward.
I think Fish does an alright job when he plays there but the boys don't use him enough which Ratten needs to change. Fisher has some of the strongest hands in the business and if he added a bit more bulk he could be a true presence down there.
That said I would still like to see Hartlett get given another chance.
thylacine60
20 Apr 2008, 21:57
We got nothing at CHF and we keep breaking down there. That's why we play ping pong acrosss the backline for half the game.
Setanta is not doing enough at the moment and needs a run in the Bullants. Hartlett had a good half in the BUllants win over Tassie, but faded after 1/2 time. They've tried Setanta in the forward line without succuess, what about the backline again? If not, give either Hartlett, Edwards, or even his brother Aisake a go. (Who knows, Aisake has the same build and speed of Buddy Franklin, and you never know until you try them at the highest level ?)
[ToTTi]
20 Apr 2008, 21:59
King of Harts.
BLue_Bloys
20 Apr 2008, 22:00
We got nothing at CHF and we keep breaking down there. That's why we play ping pong acrosss the backline for half the game.
Yeah that was my motivation for the thread. Bloody frustrating to watch the ball rebounded faster than it goes in. Anyone bar Melbourne and it would have really hurt us today, instead of adding to our score.
Harts should come in for Setanta but I really see him suited to being our 2nd half forward 'tall'. Would like to see Hammer given another chance to settle in at CHF once he is fit. :)
In this years draft will have to draft the best available CHF and CHB two big boys. That will be 10 year players.
gbatman
21 Apr 2008, 00:14
We definatly have to try and draft a good CHF, don't think we need another tall defender but definatly need to try and get a good big forward with our No 1 pick.
Until then Hartlett in | O'hAlpin out...
Thought Hartlett played well in the VFL. The guy has serious talent, and is almost certain to be picked next week. He is a true CHF type, and knows how to play that position. Seems to have got his fitness right as well. A thumping kick of the footy, and has attitude. Still think Jake Edwards has a huge future, perhaps on a HF flank. He looks too classy for VFL level - just needs to persist, and start using some of that natural ability. :)
TheGeneral
21 Apr 2008, 00:56
In this years draft will have to draft the best available CHF and CHB two big boys. That will be 10 year players.
Pretty simple. :rolleyes:
Thought Hartlett played well in the VFL. The guy has serious talent, and is almost certain to be picked next week. He is a true CHF type, and knows how to play that position. Seems to have got his fitness right as well. A thumping kick of the footy, and has attitude. Still think Jake Edwards has a huge future, perhaps on a HF flank. He looks too classy for VFL level - just needs to persist, and start using some of that natural ability. :)
What happened to your driving the Setanta bandwagon because he's such a great tall prospect? :o :cool:
TorresIsGod
21 Apr 2008, 01:02
We had a CHF, now he's at WCE
We had a CHF, now he's at WCE
He can't get a game for them and they're really struggling :confused:
thylacine60
21 Apr 2008, 01:40
He can't get a game for them and they're really struggling :confused:
Think they'll wheel him out for his debut in Round 7? Suppose Waitey would stand him. Interesting. Bugger better not decide to turn it on.
Gilly1972
21 Apr 2008, 11:56
We had a CHF, now he's at WCE
Yeah....nah...happy with the current #5 :)
Faz 2000
21 Apr 2008, 12:05
Fisher isn't bash and crash enough to be a CHF.
He's purely a 3rd tall - and a VERY handy one at that. Heard a stat on him the other day... something like he's kicked three goals 12 times, never kicked four. Can't be the primary focus, but is a vital "3rd option". He also tends to make mincemeat of the opposition's third defender in contested situations.
Definitely give Hartlett a go. Looks to have the size and general mindset to do it. Doesn't have to be a megastar, just serviceable and hard-working (see Spalding, Earl).
ericpascoe
21 Apr 2008, 12:17
Dowler will struggle to get a game at Hawthorn. Perhaps we should have a crack at him at the end of the season
Gilly1972
21 Apr 2008, 12:22
Dowler will struggle to get a game at Hawthorn. Perhaps we should have a crack at him at the end of the season
Pass, :thumbsd: WH got that one right the first time around ;)
Yeah....nah...happy with the current #5 :)
Andrew McKay? ;)
Dowler will struggle to get a game at Hawthorn. Perhaps we should have a crack at him at the end of the season
Only if we could get him for nothing. Certainly not in their best 22, with Buddy, Roughie and Doyle up there.
Gilly1972
21 Apr 2008, 13:07
Only if we could get him for nothing. Certainly not in their best 22, with Buddy, Roughie and Doyle up there.
I don't see why we'd use up a spot on the list for him to be honest.....never going to be a game winning CHF, and I'd actually have Hartlett and O'Hailpin in front of him anyway. If we add a CHF to our list it should be Hurley ;)
thylacine60
21 Apr 2008, 13:26
I don't see why we'd use up a spot on the list for him to be honest.....never going to be a game winning CHF, and I'd actually have Hartlett and O'Hailpin in front of him anyway. If we add a CHF to our list it should be Hurley ;)
And you'd spend the next 5 years telling my why he is a slow developer. ;)
Gilly1972
21 Apr 2008, 13:34
And you'd spend the next 5 years telling my why he is a slow developer. ;)
Not this kid, will be ready to go round 1 ;)
THEBLOODS85
21 Apr 2008, 13:47
Fisher isn't bash and crash enough to be a CHF.
He's purely a 3rd tall - and a VERY handy one at that. Heard a stat on him the other day... something like he's kicked three goals 12 times, never kicked four. Can't be the primary focus, but is a vital "3rd option". He also tends to make mincemeat of the opposition's third defender in contested situations.
Definitely give Hartlett a go. Looks to have the size and general mindset to do it. Doesn't have to be a megastar, just serviceable and hard-working (see Spalding, Earl).
Exactly.....You need someone that can help you structurally so that your best forwards have the best match ups without being double-teamed.
Even though Setanta has not got heaps of the ball his presence has taken a big defender away from Fev.
Notice when he plays wide of Fev things work better.....but unfortunately the big fellow gets lost in transition sometimes......maybe the smarter nous of a footballing background like Hartletts would work better.
Just on this threads theme (CHF).....it is hard to find too many genuine big CHF'S across the AFL......most clubs use the more mobile types i.e Ryan Okeefe, Travis Cloke.
Jonathon Brown and Franklin are exceptions but generally play closer to goal than your traditional CHF'S.
ericpascoe
21 Apr 2008, 13:53
Yeah but Gilly - unless we have a top 4 pick we're unlikely to get him. And isn't he only 192? And I wouldn't mark Dowler too hard for not squeezing into the Hawks forward line. I think if were going to challenge around 2011, we might need someone a bit more developed than a 2008 Draftee.
Gilly1972
21 Apr 2008, 14:01
Hurley will be better in his first year than Dowler in his third or fourth ;). True, we may not get him. I'm not rating Dowler down on his inability to crack into the Hawks F50 but what he would bring to our club and his inability to play with intensity required for AFL level for more than 10-15 min bursts.
Faz 2000
21 Apr 2008, 14:10
We have a gun full-forward, who needs space to run into. Therefore a star CHF is not what's needed. Fev is and will remain our best forward.
What we need from a CHF is a Travis Cloke kind of role: hit up for marks on the lead, and deliver inside 50. What Riewoldt usually does, too, with Kozzie and/or Gehrig behind him.
We need a CHF who is capable of kicking 1-2 goals a game, but also smash packs as needed, take marks on the lead (as far up as the wing is OK), and generally work hard to create crumbs for the half-forwards/midfielders and to create space behind him for Fev. That is not necessarily an all-Australian megastar. Serviceable. Solid. Key to the structure of the team.
They need to be big (to have a presence), fit (to get to contests) and have good hands (marks and handballs off to runners).
Can Hartlett be that guy? Personally I thought his snotting of Cam Howat was a really good sign that he wasn't afraid to get his hands dirty.
TheGeneral
21 Apr 2008, 14:12
Maybe Judd will re-think his comments in his latest article if he wants a player like Hurley in his forwardline. ;) :)
The Grover
21 Apr 2008, 14:32
Hurley will be better in his first year than Dowler in his third or fourth ;). True, we may not get him. I'm not rating Dowler down on his inability to crack into the Hawks F50 but what he would bring to our club and his inability to play with intensity required for AFL level for more than 10-15 min bursts.
Hurley kicked 6 goals on the weekend, did you or anyone else see his game.
Someone who can play forward & back would be a pretty valuable asset.
Gilly1972
21 Apr 2008, 14:38
Hurley kicked 6 goals on the weekend, did you or anyone else see his game.
Someone who can play forward & back would be a pretty valuable asset.
I was there. Was very impressive, just has a huge physical presence and plays with concentration and intensity that reminds you of a certain M. Kreuzer. Attacks every marking contest like it is his last. Very smart football brain....capable of playing back or forward but seems to be spending most of his time at CHF for the Knights this year. One caveat, the bloke he was playing on was about 5cm shorter and probably giving away 10-15kgs.
phantom 309
21 Apr 2008, 14:54
We got nothing at CHF and we keep breaking down there. That's why we play ping pong acrosss the backline for half the game.
We play ping pong waiting for an avanue into our foward 50 because we now have to counter the flood, the tigers did it, the siants did it, and we had NO COUNTER to it and we lost both games, the dee's pulled it on us big time and this time we stayed patient and won the game, yes it is a sh-t style of footy to try and counter, and we have found a way do it, give me the dons and pies to play against anytime open good to watch footy, but if we want to win games then at times ping pong it must be. And who ever is at CHF needs to have more defence orientated skills to help keep the ball in our forward line, so for me Hartlett in.
thylacine60
21 Apr 2008, 15:10
We play ping pong waiting for an avanue into our foward 50 because we now have to counter the flood, the tigers did it, the siants did it, and we had NO COUNTER to it and we lost both games, the dee's pulled it on us big time and this time we stayed patient and won the game, yes it is a sh-t style of footy to try and counter, and we have found a way do it, give me the dons and pies to play against anytime open good to watch footy, but if we want to win games then at times ping pong it must be. And who ever is at CHF needs to have more defence orientated skills to help keep the ball in our forward line, so for me Hartlett in.
Good call :thumbsu:.
legendtofski
21 Apr 2008, 16:05
Why don't we just pull Sticks out of retirement?
Why don't we just pull Sticks out of retirement?
nah James Cook would be a better option hehe
TheGeneral
21 Apr 2008, 17:29
I was there. Was very impressive, just has a huge physical presence and plays with concentration and intensity that reminds you of a certain M. Kreuzer. Attacks every marking contest like it is his last. Very smart football brain....capable of playing back or forward but seems to be spending most of his time at CHF for the Knights this year. One caveat, the bloke he was playing on was about 5cm shorter and probably giving away 10-15kgs.
Gilly, did Zaharakis do enough to deserve a mention in the bests for the Knights?
How was his disposal?
:)
Gilly1972
21 Apr 2008, 17:36
Gilly, did Zaharakis do enough to deserve a mention in the bests for the Knights?
How was his disposal?
:)
Just, he makes space and creates so he doesn't need to touch it 30 times a game.
Improved on last year ;)
Jezza U Beauty
21 Apr 2008, 18:00
I like the thought of Harts in for Setanta as many above have mentioned.
Big call in terms of importance this week though, because whoever it is will probably get Bock and he's a very good player. Might sound silly but I reckon the Hawks' ability to keep him to an ordinary game was a pretty big part of beating the Crows IMO.
I also really liked what the Snake showed early this season too so i hope he keeps coming along. If he kicked better he would've had 3 or 4 each game.
Setanta The Irish
21 Apr 2008, 18:10
ill have a chat to johnny brown...see if hes interested...
On The Couch talked about CHF role in footy today - suggested the half back and centre running game has somewhat made it obsolete - why Richo winging it (and apparently Riewoldt too) and Browny out of sorts while Bradshaw killing them.
Maybe I will change my mind about Harts just being half forward 2nd prong as he can wing CHF but I am definitely not changing my mind about us needing more half back run
:)
Blueinblood
22 Apr 2008, 14:51
If Hammer comes back in cloke can hold CHF which may force a tall adelaide back to go to him
gbatman
22 Apr 2008, 14:54
Yes the CHF position is more obsolete these days, now the CHF is a player who leads from the goal square but leads further up the ground than the FF often taking marks between 40 - 80 meters from goal, they also offer a long contested option.
The modern midfield has a role to run the ball and use short kicks to pypass the genuine CHF position where as in the old days the midfield would kick to CHF when they were in rang to do so.
I wouldn't expect a CHF to kick to many goals or get to much of the footy, they are crucial for leading hard, drawing opponents and opening up the space in front of the FF. They must be a good player (to draw opponents) and must contribute and average about 2 or 3 goals a game.
There are still many times during a game where the players are tired and the pressure is on and they have to kick to Half-Forward, this is where we are let down, O'hAlpin has been making a contest but needs to mark a few.
The CHF is also a long contested (generally stationary) option to go to that lurks around 30-45 meters from goal. This is why it's so important a CHF can read the play and get in the right position. They must know when to either go on long hard lead or lurk infront of goal looking for a contested ball in this hotspot. They must also be concious of opening up space and keeping out of the Full Forward way. This is why this sort of player takes so long to develope and why playing CHB is a good position to learn the game.
Hartlett can kick a long goal and can cover ground quite well which I think is required from a CHF these days. VFL is played so much differently to AFL and it will take a while to learn how to play at AFL level.
Fev isn't quite tall enough and doesn't have the tank to play CHF and isnt suited there anyway, best forward should always play full forward in todays game.
I think a good forward around the 195cm - 198cm rang is on the cards for our no. 1 draft selection. Someone with good hands, who can mark well overhead, kick long goals and who can run and cover ground well. Very hard to find, good luck recruiters!
If Hammer comes back in cloke can hold CHF which may force a tall adelaide back to go to him
would love that to happen
just dont think they will bring in hammer as he probably needs a decent hitout in the 2's
but i am all for hammer coming in!
Blue Bawls
22 Apr 2008, 21:13
As I said in another post, I agree CHF is redundant. The game has changed since the Golf Ball then Aaron Hamill barged their way around the half forward line, and with Kreuzer dropping in there, we get an extra tall who's excellent at defense and has good ground skills.