Ken McGregor - The Facts.

[Campbell's Chunky]

So Kenny has been under performing this year.

Let's take a look at the facts in his 5 games this year.

Game Averages:

6 kicks
3 handballs
9 disposals
3 Errors
0.8 tackles
0.8 goals
1.0 behind
1.2 hitouts
1.8 Inside 50's
2 1%'s

So here are the facts. I guess Neil's explanation for his spot in the team is that he 'provides a contest when going long'.

But he gets 9 disposals per game, of which 3 are errors, kicks less than a goal a game as our MAIN key forward (Tippett and Stevens don't play forward the whole game).

His defensive pressure is also non existent...0.8 tackles a game. Sellar laid 4 tackles yesterday, so even though hes playing like shit, he's still providing defensive pressure.

He was massively outrun in the West Coast game by an average paced Shannon Hurn. And I mean just burnt him off his feet. That was symbolic for me of where he is at.

How exactly is he benefiting us atm?

[Chief Crow]

at the moment he is giving us nothing other then providing a big body up forward. I honestly think Sellar should be in his spot

[Campbell's Chunky]

If you compare him to Sellar in the SANFL (I know it's a different league), but Sellar is getting better numbers (which says a lot).

Not only that, but he is a different forward to Tippett and Kenny...he can lead up a bit.

Either that or just drop Kenny, and bring Ivan.

Makes so so so so so much sense.

[Rave Slave]

Lets keep him in the side for sentimentality

[Southerntakeover]

Im not sure what we're doing with Kenny at the moment.

I know hes not getting alot of it, but we dont appear to be targetting him much when we go up forward either. Its probably wrong to say that Kennys been our main forward target, thats clearly been a split between Goody and Burton.

I thought he was pretty good against the Hawks, when we kicked it to him in a contest. Hes not very mobile, his skill is in contested marking. We probably need to make better use of that if we're playing him every week.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Im not sure what we're doing with Kenny at the moment.

I know hes not getting alot of it, but we dont appear to be targetting him much when we go up forward either. Its probably wrong to say that Kennys been our main forward target, thats clearly been a split between Goody and Burton.

I thought he was pretty good against the Hawks, when we kicked it to him in a contest. Hes not very mobile, his skill is in contested marking. We probably need to make better use of that if we're playing him every week.
I said key forward.

We can't just play a forward line of player who are all sub 190cm.

Look, atm Kenny's role DOES take a defender away from Goodwin, however, we should be able to make more use of this role. Actually use it to provide another target...the long target, while Birdman and Goody lead up to the 50.

[Southerntakeover]

I said key forward.

We can't just play a forward line of player who are all sub 190cm.

Look, atm Kenny's role DOES take a defender away from Goodwin, however, we should be able to make more use of this role. Actually use it to provide another target...the long target, while Birdman and Goody lead up to the 50.

Yeah, i know, its just, the definition of key forward seems to be vague at best.

I agree though, Kennys got to be the deep threat. Its not happening enough at the moment, though im not sure if thats been through game plan, or just lack of form? I dont recall him dropping too many marks, the ball just isnt coming to him.

[crowman_23]

Bring in Maric for him, play Tippett permanently forward. Wonder how long we will all have to wait before we get what it seems everybody wants.

[Willis]

Bring in Maric for him, play Tippett permanently forward. Wonder how long we will all have to wait before we get what it seems everybody wants.

Please this. PLEASE!


I'm guessing we will have to wait until Moran is ready to play for this to happen.:o

[crows98]

By dropping Kenny McGregor NC would then have to play Kurt Tippett as the primary tall forward at CHF and he will get molested big time. And simply suggesting Ivan Maric or James Sellar are options at the moment is also laughable. In time yes but not yet. Brett Burton and Simon Goodwin are good lead up forwards who can kick goals and know how to produce the goods to win games of football but they are not your typical forward who can stand under a ball at centre half forward. One day Kurt Tippett will be that type of player but let’s allow him to learn his craft as 3rd or 4th forward option rather than the main man.

By keeping Kenny McGregor in the side as a key forward allows Tippett to play an unobtrusive role as a ruckman and as a 3rd or 4th forward line option. Let him develop slowly without adding all this extra pressure.

With so many kids in the side the club is walking a fine tightrope at the moment; add one more and everything tips over. We have the right amount of experience and youth in the side at the moment. Just because Kenny’s stats are not fantastic, doesn’t mean he isn’t playing his role in the side, same as Robert Shirley.

[Asgardian]

Ken McGregor........................

Well everything I would say about the bloke would get me banned.:o

So good luck to the bloke getting paid as an AFL footballer.:o

[cocka]

By dropping Kenny McGregor NC would then have to play Kurt Tippett as the primary tall forward at CHF and he will get molested big time. And simply suggesting Ivan Maric or James Sellar are options at the moment is also laughable.

Stevens could easily do Kenny's job at CHF at the moment, leaves Tippett at FF, Maric to share ruck duties. Simple really.

[cocka]

Warren Treadrea ........................

Well everything I would say about the bloke would get me banned.:o

So good luck to the bloke getting paid as an AFL footballer.:o

Edited for correctness.:rolleyes:

[crows98]

Stevens could easily do Kenny's job at CHF at the moment, leaves Tippett at FF, Maric to share ruck duties. Simple really.

And who then takes Scott Steven spot in defence?

Aaron Kite?

Once we start getting players back his spot on the side will come under jeopardy, however with the huge injury list it is impossible to drop him yet.

[Campbell's Chunky]

And who then takes Scott Steven spot in defence?

Aaron Kite?

Once we start getting players back his spot on the side will come under jeopardy, however with the huge injury list it is impossible to drop him yet.
Well, we have Rutten, Bock and Bassett.

Not sure we really really really need another tall defender.

Massie is pretty good at playing on a mid forward anyway.

[Mr_Smooth]

Please this. PLEASE!


I'm guessing we will have to wait until Moran is ready to play for this to happen.:o
what you talkin about Willis??

[James_37]

Just a thought, I know Sellar probably isn't ready etc. but Sellar was getting similar stats (averaging over a goal a game) in the MM cup, puts on a lot more defensive pressure than Kenny before he got dropped. Yet Kenny keeps getting a game, I'll assume he's there to take away a Key Defender from the others, because he isn't giving terribly much elsewhere.

[Southerntakeover]

Ken McGregor........................

Well everything I would say about the bloke would get me banned.:o

So good luck to the bloke getting paid as an AFL footballer.:o

Strange, i dont remember seeing you around our board too much the last four weeks.

[Crow-mo]

Ken McGregor........................

Well everything I would say about the bloke would get me banned.:o

So good luck to the bloke getting paid as an AFL footballer.:o

that's alright 150+ games for a top club trumps your opinion anyway ;)

[Geoffa32]

If we throw Jimmy Sellar in are we actually losing much?

[Dandy_GO]

Little more than a decoy at the moment.
Not taking enough grabs deep in the forward line.
Not doing enough up the ground, and when he does take a mark on half forward, he's friggin indecisive and takes longer than anyone in the team to move it along, making it shit hard to score anyway.
His pressure is woeful, and he's been pretty inaccurate.
Tippett, from far less time up forward, has kicked more goals, an he's only played 5 games.
He's there to take the best defender, thus taking away a bit of the pressure from Burton, Goodwin, and providing space for them. That part is working, and they're scoring goals. Problem is that he does nothing himself, and, when both Tippett and Kenny are up forward, the best defender goes to Kurt anyway, and Kenny STILL does bugger all.
Might take a couple of good grabs every few games, but it's really not enough.
I appreciate that structure is important, and we don't have much in the way of proven options in this area, but it's at the stage where we need to try something else. It's costing us goals.

[King Elvis]

Kenny is still in the side at the moment because we don't have a better, fit option. I love the bloke, but it's that simply.

That being said, until we do have Gill or Hentschel fit and firing, Kenny is probably the best option.

I also get the impression that there is a little bit of confusion about his role at the moment.

Is he a stay at home FF?
A lead up FF?
A mobile CHF who moves up to the wing?

Can you say with absolute certainty that you know what Kenny's role is this year?

I know he isn't in great form, but I don't think we're allowing him to use his strengths.

[-CG-]

Little more than a decoy at the moment.
Not taking enough grabs deep in the forward line.
Not doing enough up the ground, and when he does take a mark on half forward, he's friggin indecisive and takes longer than anyone in the team to move it along, making it shit hard to score anyway.
His pressure is woeful, and he's been pretty inaccurate.
Tippett, from far less time up forward, has kicked more goals, an he's only played 5 games.
He's there to take the best defender, thus taking away a bit of the pressure from Burton, Goodwin, and providing space for them. That part is working, and they're scoring goals. Problem is that he does nothing himself, and, when both Tippett and Kenny are up forward, the best defender goes to Kurt anyway, and Kenny STILL does bugger all.
Might take a couple of good grabs every few games, but it's really not enough.
I appreciate that structure is important, and we don't have much in the way of proven options in this area, but it's at the stage where we need to try something else. It's costing us goals.

I seem to be agreeing with you lately, and again, agree with what you've said here :thumbsu:

Don't know what his situation is within the club, but reckon he should've only got the one year contract at the end of last year. Might have given him more reason to perform better.

[Eastern Crow]

And who then takes Scott Steven spot in defence?

Aaron Kite?

Once we start getting players back his spot on the side will come under jeopardy, however with the huge injury list it is impossible to drop him yet.

Kris Massie :thumbsu:

[Campbell's Chunky]

I seem to be agreeing with you lately, and again, agree with what you've said here :thumbsu:

Don't know what his situation is within the club, but reckon he should've only got the one year contract at the end of last year. Might have given him more reason to perform better.
Or at the very least a Scott Welsh type contract.

Perform and you'll be rich, don't perform and you won't be able to afford a haircut.

[Southerntakeover]

Or at the very least a Scott Welsh type contract.

Perform and you'll be rich, don't perform and you won't be able to afford a haircut.

Different scenario.

The problem with Welsh wasnt his on field form, rather, it was his habit of continually missing games with soft tissue injuries.

[Kane McGoodwin]

As much as I have been a fan of Kenny over the years, I tend to be in agreement that I think the pace of the game is passing him by.

We would be better off having the more mobile Stevens as the lead-out CHF & having Tippett (with Maric & Griffin capable of rotating) at FF.

Massie would be good cover for Stevens in a backline that is probably too top-heavy any way.

[marvin]

Ken McGregor........................

Well everything I would say about the bloke would get me banned.:o

What you meant to say was that everything you would say about the bloke would be wrong.

You predicted a Kenny delisting or a trade for a 5th rounder this time last year. Put's your in the Alan Scott category.

[Eggzoi]

Perform and you'll be rich, don't perform and you won't be able to afford a haircut.

I get the impression he wouldn't be too concerned with that.

[Kamikaze Krowz]

So Kenny has been under performing this year.

Let's take a look at the facts in his 5 games this year.

Game Averages:

6 kicks
3 handballs
9 disposals
3 Errors
0.8 tackles
0.8 goals
1.0 behind
1.2 hitouts
1.8 Inside 50's
2 1%'s

So here are the facts. I guess Neil's explanation for his spot in the team is that he 'provides a contest when going long'.

But he gets 9 disposals per game, of which 3 are errors, kicks less than a goal a game as our MAIN key forward (Tippett and Stevens don't play forward the whole game).

His defensive pressure is also non existent...0.8 tackles a game. Sellar laid 4 tackles yesterday, so even though hes playing like shit, he's still providing defensive pressure.

He was massively outrun in the West Coast game by an average paced Shannon Hurn. And I mean just burnt him off his feet. That was symbolic for me of where he is at.

How exactly is he benefiting us atm?

Agree fully and anyone that clears their head would see this too.. Too many people are too protective and also cant decipher bagging from telling it how it is and trying to improve the team..

You cant afford to carry someone in the 22 thats having so little input..

We have no lead up player atm and it stood out like mad on the weekend (like perrie used to play) and sellar or stevens should get a crack at doing this, put tippett to FF and maric into ruck..

Maric must be rewarded for going back to the sanfl, not spitting the dummy which he could have easily done, and performing..

Oh yes, and massie back in the side.. Always been a big fan of his.. Everytime he starts really getting going, he gets injured

[Allefgib]

Kenny is still in the side at the moment because we don't have a better, fit option. I love the bloke, but it's that simply.

That being said, until we do have Gill or Hentschel fit and firing, Kenny is probably the best option.

I also get the impression that there is a little bit of confusion about his role at the moment.

Is he a stay at home FF?
A lead up FF?
A mobile CHF who moves up to the wing?

Can you say with absolute certainty that you know what Kenny's role is this year?

I know he isn't in great form, but I don't think we're allowing him to use his strengths.

Right now mate from what I am seeing.. he is a stay at home CHF.
Honestly I watched the forward line VERY closely at the northern end on Saturday and the number of times he was camped 45 out when the ball was coming into the square from the HBF line and he never looked like moving and offering a lead out to the Wing or straight up the ground.

We seem to want the marking contest to be around the 45m mark as that is where Goody/BUrton get targetted most on the lead. But Kenny starts there and doesn't move much from there when we are trying to run the ball forward from HB. I'm confused.

[whitey_1975]

The stats arent good but i think he will hold his spot for another few weeks until Hentshel is ready. I personally would give young sellar ago but not sure if this will happen just yet. Maric should be in definately though. Very impressed with his form in last 3 weeks and hasnt dropped the bundle at all considering his fall from #1 ruck to #3 ruck.

[Porps_is_HOT_loz]

No kenny no, no kenny no, NOOOOOO KENNY!


Played his 150th
Put Maric in for him

[Willis]

The stats arent good but i think he will hold his spot for another few weeks until Hentshel is ready. I personally would give young sellar ago but not sure if this will happen just yet. Maric should be in definately though. Very impressed with his form in last 3 weeks and hasnt dropped the bundle at all considering his fall from #1 ruck to #3 ruck.

Hentschel is more than a few weeks off. I think we need to be content with him playing a some games later this year in preparation for a full season next year. Gill is the one we should be looking out for along with the hope of Tippet being left in the forward lines permanently. Agreed that Maric needs to be in.

[Southerntakeover]

Don't know what his situation is within the club, but reckon he should've only got the one year contract at the end of last year. Might have given him more reason to perform better.

Yup, hes clearly tanking it.

[Vince Van Mackay]

Another problem with Kenny is that when he does mark up the ground, he always stops and props, which inevitably halts any fast ball movement or attack, its actually hard to watch.

I wish Kenny would play well, I remember when he was great down back. But geez, seeing him run up the ground for a mark, fumble or get it spoiled and then fall over again and again is rubbing my patience thin.

[Dogga79]

As much as I have been a fan of Kenny over the years, I tend to be in agreement that I think the pace of the game is passing him by.

The sad thing is, it is just so obvious. Unless he uses his marking power he doesn't have any other tricks in his bag. Everybody agreed before the start of the season that we should plonk him at FF where we would get the best value out of him. This hasn't bared any fruit so I guess the question is, when others are fit where does the future of Ken McGregor lay?

Every week I wait for Kenny to turn it around, but it just hasn't happened. Or if he does have a good game it is not backed up the week after. It is not unreasonable to expect a KF to kick goals or have some impact.



We would be better off having the more mobile Stevens as the lead-out CHF & having Tippett (with Maric & Griffin capable of rotating) at FF.

At the moment I just cant see any downside in this scenario. Stevens spending time forward and back and Tippett having a bigger say in the forward line. What is their to be lost by trying this?

[-CG-]

Yup, hes clearly tanking it.

Oh come on, you know what I mean. Maybe if he had some incentive to actually get out on the park every week and put in 110% he'd be playing better. We gifted him a contract after he wanted to leave the Club and no one else wanted to pick him up.

[Stiffy_18]

Campbell's Chunky, that avatar is a pisser! :D

[Southerntakeover]

Oh come on, you know what I mean. Maybe if he had some incentive to actually get out on the park every week and put in 110% he'd be playing better. We gifted him a contract after he wanted to leave the Club and no one else wanted to pick him up.

I do know what you're saying, i just dont agree with it.

Incentive based contracts are a good counter to players with commitment issues. Ive never felt that Kenny was one of those players.

[Campbell's Chunky]

I do know what you're saying, i just dont agree with it.

Incentive based contracts are a good counter to players with commitment issues. Ive never felt that Kenny was one of those players.
You would agree he shoulda been given a 1 year contract though?

[crows98]

Campbell's Chunky, that avatar is a pisser! :D

Yeah I agree – it’s very good. :D

[Southerntakeover]

You would agree he shoulda been given a 1 year contract though?

I do think three may have been excessive. Really depends alot on whether they have long term plans for him (and they may have, im not privvy to all the information). I probably wouldnt have complained about two.

To be honest, we would have had problems getting him to sign for one.

[crows98]

Is Kenny McGregor on a 3 year deal? :eek:

FFS - :(

[Campbell's Chunky]

Is Kenny McGregor on a 3 year deal? :eek:

FFS - :(
Fairly sure it was 2...

[Stiffy_18]

Fairly sure it was 2...
Correct!

[fightingdreamer88]

The Kenny-backers can spin their nursery rhymes all they want but deep down everyone knows his days as anything more than a second or third in line depth player will soon come to an end; in fact, you could argue that he's already a second or third in line depth player and injuries to others are the only thing from sending him to the SANFL for the rest of the season. His ideal position, FF, is being eyed off by an outstanding prospect in Tippett, and both Gill and Hentschel are the likely candidates to take the leading role when fit. Down the track there is also the possibility of Sellar emerging, and Walker could well emerge in 2009, if not sneak a game this year.

The writing is indeed on the wall; it is only a matter of time. Assuming there are no further setbacks for Gill and Hentschel, I expect McGregor to lose his spot before the halfway mark of the season but in any event, I can't see him lasting much longer.

[crows98]

Fairly sure it was 2...

Correct!

I guess that’s not so bad because next year he may have to stay on the list as insurance. But 3 years is one to many.

[-CG-]

I do know what you're saying, i just dont agree with it.

Incentive based contracts are a good counter to players with commitment issues. Ive never felt that Kenny was one of those players.

Ok, fair enough. But he wanted to leave last year, surely that places quiestion marks over his head on his commitment to the Club.

[crows98]

Ok, fair enough. But he wanted to leave last year, surely that places quiestion marks over his head on his commitment to the Club.

So what, for the last 3 months I have wanted to leave my place of employment everyday because sucks arse but I am still committed to being a valuable employee.

Listening to him on 5AA during the off season I recall he said something along the lines of he wasted to leave because he didn’t feel the club wanted his services, not that he didn’t want to be at the club. He always wanted to stay at the club and as soon as he knew they wanted him, he signed that contract extension.

[Southerntakeover]

Ok, fair enough. But he wanted to leave last year, surely that places quiestion marks over his head on his commitment to the Club.

Bit of a black and white view of it.

I dont think it was a case of Kenny desperately wanting to leave the club, hes been pretty active in letting everyone know he is over the moon that he was able to stay, as he loves the club.

I think it was more a case of him sizing up his options, realizing that his usefulness in Adelaide might be coming to an end (apparently alot of supporters agree), and that he might not even be getting a contract renewal (the torney/perrie precedents would have put the wind up him), and looking at his other options. In the end the club still wanted him, and put forward a decent contract offer which he signed. Its probably not fair to suggest that he has loyalty problems because of what happened in the off season.

[-CG-]

Listening to him on 5AA during the off season I recall he said something along the lines of he wasted to leave because he didn’t feel the club wanted his services, not that he didn’t want to be at the club. He always wanted to stay at the club and as soon as he knew they wanted him, he signed that contract extension.

Yeah I heard something like that too...but if he's not enjoying his footy, things can change.

I don't really want to speculate on what he's feeling about it all, but going back to what I was originally saying, I think he should've been given the one year contract, not two. Thats about it.

[Southerntakeover]

Correct!

I dont disbelieve you, ive just been spending the last few months under the impression it was a three. Id like to set my mind at ease, got a source? I cant seem to find anything confirming one way or the other.

[sturtman]

Since no one here will defend Kenny, i'll have a crack. Sitting 45 out from goal puts him in a striking position. He's done damage with his marking to some clubs in some games and oposition coaches won't be that aware of his running stats or intended roll. He's certainly not a player you can leave unattended, and he prevents the Crows forward thrusts from becomming overly predictable, since having a big guy up there is presumedly because you're gonna go to him. It also gives the smarts of Goodwin and Burton a chance to play havoc in one on one contests deep inside the 50. The ploy is working in that Craigy has Adelaide in possitive territory, more wins than losses, with a team that is far from full strength. Maybe we need to cut the brains trust a bit of slack. At the moment we look like we'll have to pinch wins in whatever way we can. And sometimes that's going to get ugly, but Craigy doesn't exactly have an unlimited set of options at moment. So if Kenny is playing the decoy role he's doing it for the team, and you can't ask more of a player than doing the team things.

[Stiffy_18]

I dont disbelieve you, ive just been spending the last few months under the impression it was a three. Id like to set my mind at ease, got a source? I cant seem to find anything confirming one way or the other.
http://insidefootballonline.com/casanelia.html

“But then they offered me a two-year contract and for me that was the sign the club wanted me, they wanted me to play and be a part of the next few years.
“As soon as I got that sort of commitment it was something I took and really wanted.”

[Southerntakeover]

^ My thanks good sir.

Certainly sets my mind at ease a bit. Im happy with two years.

[Drummond]

So what, for the last 3 months I have wanted to leave my place of employment everyday because sucks arse but I am still committed to being a valuable employee.

Listening to him on 5AA during the off season I recall he said something along the lines of he wasted to leave because he didn’t feel the club wanted his services, not that he didn’t want to be at the club. He always wanted to stay at the club and as soon as he knew they wanted him, he signed that contract extension.
He put himself on the market, saw that no one else was interested, and realised he had no choice.

[porpoise]

Since no one here will defend Kenny, i'll have a crack. Sitting 45 out from goal puts him in a striking position. He's done damage with his marking to some clubs in some games and oposition coaches won't be that aware of his running stats or intended roll. He's certainly not a player you can leave unattended, and he prevents the Crows forward thrusts from becomming overly predictable, since having a big guy up there is presumedly because you're gonna go to him. It also gives the smarts of Goodwin and Burton a chance to play havoc in one on one contests deep inside the 50. The ploy is working in that Craigy has Adelaide in possitive territory, more wins than losses, with a team that is far from full strength. Maybe we need to cut the brains trust a bit of slack. At the moment we look like we'll have to pinch wins in whatever way we can. And sometimes that's going to get ugly, but Craigy doesn't exactly have an unlimited set of options at moment. So if Kenny is playing the decoy role he's doing it for the team, and you can't ask more of a player than doing the team things.
I'll also play devil's advocate and nominate some beautiful ruck work from Keneth on the weekend. On 2 separate occasions I witnessed him - on the outer wing where I sit - direct a hit out straight to a team mate that lead directly to a goal. It may have been his only 2 hitouts of the match, but given we only scored 12 goals for the day, they were priceless.

[TheLeftFist8]

his skill is in contested marking. We probably need to make better use of that if we're playing him every week.

The major reason Ken has so many contested marking opportunities is he can rarely actually put distance between himself and his opponent!

So many times i see marks which would've have been simple marks on a lead for Gill, Hentschel or just about anyone else...but for Kenny he cannot get clear, thus another contested marking opportunity.

When he clunks 1 out of 5 of these people say what a great contested mark he is. Unfortunately the other 4 contests, the ball is swept down the other end with no ground pressure.

[jenny61_99]

4 pages of "let's kick the crap out of Kenny". :thumbsd:

Can I remind you all that Kenny Mc kicked 4 goals in the NAB cup final? For whatever reason he is not in terrific form at the moment. But I would like to add that he seems to be playing a different role. He's certainly not in the traditional position we have seen him play in the last few years so I am not sure if that is effecting him. The coaching panel obviously feel he's doing what they ask of him.

Some of these posts are really disappointing.

[TheLeftFist8]

Right now mate from what I am seeing.. he is a stay at home CHF.
Honestly I watched the forward line VERY closely at the northern end on Saturday and the number of times he was camped 45 out when the ball was coming into the square from the HBF line and he never looked like moving and offering a lead out to the Wing or straight up the ground.

We seem to want the marking contest to be around the 45m mark as that is where Goody/BUrton get targetted most on the lead. But Kenny starts there and doesn't move much from there when we are trying to run the ball forward from HB. I'm confused.

This is correct for part of the time. A further chunk of time is spent as ruck when Griffin is off. Tippett taps the bounce, then Kenny moves up while Tippett goes forward.

Caused a problem once when Tippett forgot the game plan and didn't go to the bounce, leaving no ruck. Comical situation arose when Kenny tried to 'sprint' to the square to cover, then did his greatest vertical leap in jumping over the centre circle line like he was entering a 'jump rope for heart' tournament. Despite his best leap in years, ump pinged him for coming from wrong side and free went to the opposition:D

Maric or Sellar would be no worse in sharing these roles, though Maric is the man in form. Personally, I'd prefer Moran in, with Stevens forward.

[feenix67]

Two things about Ken:

1. How the hell does someone with the mobility of a dead whale get through an AFL pre season?

2. Isnt it disappointing that the guy has been on the wane physically for the past two years when his direct draft opposite (Pav) is in career best form, looking sharp and commanding a spot.

Its such a shame, as he's a fantastic contested mark in a one out situation, but the game as its played these days leaves no place for him. I believe a huge hint was dropped by NC at the post match when he said Maric was currently the most unlucky not to be in the side. I expect Maric to be in and Tippet to move perm forward this week - we cant wait for Gill to get fit and Trent is still 6 weeks away IMO.

[crows98]

He put himself on the market, saw that no one else was interested, and realised he had no choice.

And you know this for a fact that no other club wanted him?

[Rave Slave]

4 pages of "let's kick the crap out of Kenny". :thumbsd:

Can I remind you all that Kenny Mc kicked 4 goals in the NAB cup final? For whatever reason he is not in terrific form at the moment. But I would like to add that he seems to be playing a different role. He's certainly not in the traditional position we have seen him play in the last few years so I am not sure if that is effecting him. The coaching panel obviously feel he's doing what they ask of him.

Some of these posts are really disappointing.

Lets face it Jenny, we could have Bin Laden lining up at CHF and you'd defend him as a good, honest down to earth guy....

[Potent37]

4 pages of "let's kick the crap out of Kenny". :thumbsd:

Can I remind you all that Kenny Mc kicked 4 goals in the NAB cup final? For whatever reason he is not in terrific form at the moment. But I would like to add that he seems to be playing a different role. He's certainly not in the traditional position we have seen him play in the last few years so I am not sure if that is effecting him. The coaching panel obviously feel he's doing what they ask of him.

Some of these posts are really disappointing.

I seem to remember you posting last year that Ricciuto shouldn't be in the side because he wasn't performing. Ricciuto is a club legend and at the time, captain of the club. If you can't find room for Ricciuto, how can you now justify a position for McGregor.

Do you rate McGregor above Ricciuto?

[Kennyrocks]

He put himself on the market, saw that no one else was interested, and realised he had no choice.
Stop making things up to sound like you know what you're talking about, I'm sure you have an intimate knowledge of all 16 AFL clubs and their inside workings :rolleyes:

Anyway, its interesting that all the posts calling for McGregor's head seem pretty shortsighted and seem to reveal a real lack of understanding, even naivety regarding the posters understanding of AFL football.
As crows98 pointed out, we have a whole heap of youngsters playing at the moment and it is a real balance. It is critical to our short term success and our long term success in terms of developing youngsters to have the right balance between youth and experience.
Secondly, this is not dream team, CC that is a quality avatar but you should have named this thread "Ken McGregor-The Stats from the last 5 games". Stat does not equal Fact. Particularly the limited slice you have picked out.
Anyone who shows a real interest in the sport would have recognised or at least heard around the water cooler that CHF as a position is being increasingly bypassed. Its a trend in AFL football with the natural evolution of the game. Players like Lynch, Riewoldt and even (for a less famous example) Charlie Gardiner are moving further up the ground to get a kick and providing an option to feed the ball in. Burton does it too sometimes but his freakish athleticism allows him to play deeper as well (sometimes in the same passage of play! :D). Its been happening for the last two years guys, catch up.
Obviously as primarily a stay at home forward being played more at CHF than FF this year, Kenny is going to suffer with the above scenario. However his is playing a role and still providing value to the team. On Saturday he ruck for a short amount of time and although any clown stupid enough to have him in their Dream Team only got 2 points from his ruckwork he showed surprising ability and promise with some quality work against the biggest guy in the comp who averages 30 hitouts a match this year.
As far as defensive pressure goes, it is easy to see why some criticise him in this area. No Ken does not have the pace to chase down and tackle an opponent, but Ken does it in other ways, more guarding space than chasing a player. This is what happens in good teams, if someone has something to contribute, he/she works on this weakness, improves and/or finds a way around it. Its shortsighted to say that Mcgregor puts on no defensive pressure, for crying out loud Welsh was praised for supposedly good defensive pressure when he could chase, he just chose not too most of the time because he was lazy.
McGregor continues to contribute and when he starts kicking goals again he'll be a very valuable member of our team. His versatility, work off the ball in contests to help out a team-mate (Invaluable for Tippett right now) and experience are all assets for the crows right now. Personally I'm not surprised that the usual suspects are looking for a new scapegoat now that Doughty is playing well and Jericho finally showed some guts, played alright and is out injured currently anyway.

[crow07]

4 pages of "let's kick the crap out of Kenny". :thumbsd:

Can I remind you all that Kenny Mc kicked 4 goals in the NAB cup final? For whatever reason he is not in terrific form at the moment. But I would like to add that he seems to be playing a different role. He's certainly not in the traditional position we have seen him play in the last few years so I am not sure if that is effecting him. The coaching panel obviously feel he's doing what they ask of him.

Some of these posts are really disappointing.

The only thing that is disapointing is your inability to see anyone elses point of view.

[Vince Van Mackay]

I seem to remember you posting last year that Ricciuto shouldn't be in the side because he wasn't performing. Ricciuto is a club legend and at the time, captain of the club. If you can't find room for Ricciuto, how can you now justify a position for McGregor.

Do you rate McGregor above Ricciuto?

However bad McGregor's form is this year it is still twice as good as Ricciuto's form last year.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Kennyrocks, Kenny isn't playing CHF. That role is being played by smaller players such as Porpy. Kenny is a deep option.

[Kennyrocks]

Kennyrocks, Kenny isn't playing CHF. That role is being played by smaller players such as Porpy. Kenny is a deep option.
Kenny played all over the ground (including ruck and in defence) but primarily CHF. Were you at the game or watched it on TV? If you were at the game you no doubt noticed that he started at pretty much all centre bounces running into the centre square? Kenny is usually a deep option yes, but not so much this year and definitely not on Saturday.
Trust me, I watch Kenny pretty closely, as I'm sure you do with your favourite player.

[Campbell's Chunky]

Kenny played all over the ground (including ruck and in defence) but primarily CHF. Were you at the game or watched it on TV? If you were at the game you no doubt noticed that he started at pretty much all centre bounces running into the centre square? Kenny is usually a deep option yes, but not so much this year and definitely not on Saturday.
Trust me, I watch Kenny pretty closely, as I'm sure you do with your favourite player.
I'll cast a closer eye of K-Mac this weekend.

[Kennyrocks]

I'll cast a closer eye of K-Mac this weekend.
Cool, not having at go at you or anything, its just that its very different to watch a game on TV than actually at the game. You do realise its not a home game this week right? Or do you live in Melbourne?

[Campbell's Chunky]

Cool, not having at go at you or anything, its just that its very different to watch a game on TV than actually at the game. You do realise its not a home game this week right? Or do you live in Melbourne?
I'm flying over for the weekend :).

[Kennyrocks]

I'm flying over for the weekend :).
Ah nice one. Cheer loudly and have a good time!
Also i bet Kenny will play solid FF/forward pocket all match this week just for you :D

[showdownhero]

I find it difficult to believe that we could give Ken a 2 year contract and not find room for 1 more from Torney. I know they are completely different players but in terms of quality they are poles apart.

Plus Torney still being down back would allow Stevens to be up forward.

[Kennyrocks]

I find it difficult to believe that we could give Ken a 2 year contract and not find room for 1 more from Torney. I know they are completely different players but in terms of quality they are poles apart.

Plus Torney still being down back would allow Stevens to be up forward.
Different player, different types of player and as such should be judged against different marks. I see you point but I think there were two key reasons for the above:
- Position: Torney being a smallish defender bordering on midfield/wingman and Mcgregor being a KP forward-much harder to come by, which is complemented by...
- Age: McGregor is significantly younger, but still with experience, which we want for our young forwards like Tippett, Sellar. On the other hand we have the experience for our smaller players like Vince, Mackay etc through players like Goodwin and McLeod and want to give them as much opportunity in the side as possible.

I thought Torney was unlucky too, the above are just my thoughts on the afc's reasons for doing what they did.

[Southerntakeover]

Lets face it Jenny, we could have Bin Laden lining up at CHF and you'd defend him as a good, honest down to earth guy....

Well, you couldnt deny hed die for it ;)

[showdownhero]

Different player, different types of player and as such should be judged against different marks. I see you point but I think there were two key reasons for the above:
- Position: Torney being a smallish defender bordering on midfield/wingman and Mcgregor being a KP forward-much harder to come by, which is complemented by...
- Age: McGregor is significantly younger, but still with experience, which we want for our young forwards like Tippett, Sellar. On the other hand we have the experience for our smaller players like Vince, Mackay etc through players like Goodwin and McLeod and want to give them as much opportunity in the side as possible.

I thought Torney was unlucky too, the above are just my thoughts on the afc's reasons for doing what they did.
Fair enough but I'm not sure Kenny should have got anything more than a 1 year contract. Purely on the basis of his performances and I think Torney deserved the same.

[Dogga79]

And you know this for a fact that no other club wanted him?


Stop making things up to sound like you know what you're talking about, I'm sure you have an intimate knowledge of all 16 AFL clubs and their inside workings :rolleyes:


Just in defence of Drummond.

John Reid from the crows said last year on 5aa at the time of signing McGregor to his new contract, that he had received little interest from other clubs. He did emphasize how happy he was that he had stayed and signed a new deal.

[Dogga79]

Anyway, its interesting that all the posts calling for McGregor's head seem pretty shortsighted and seem to reveal a real lack of understanding, even naivety regarding the posters understanding of AFL football.


I hate it when people say this because of indifference of opinion. :thumbsd:

As Ron Barassi famously said, and I think this applies to McGregor " You give me possessions and I'll shut up".

[doppelganger47]

He put himself on the market, saw that no one else was interested, and realised he had no choice.during trade period last year, Freo showed interest when McGregor put himself on the market. The crows wanted to resign him, but McGregor obviously wasn't getting enough games. anyway, McGregor didn't want to move to Perth, so he just re-signed with the crows.

McGregor will be 29 early next year. if his contract is over this year, i'm thinking he'll again put himself on the market. i think he is definitely in that group that will be considered for the cut at year's end. definitely still too early to tell though.
...and Torney was very unlucky to be cut last year. that actually came as a shock to me, as i thought he had a great season. i definitely didn't see it coming, so now the players know, anything could happen. it was probably also the reason Welsh realised his time at the crows was coming to an end.

[Crow-mo]

The major reason Ken has so many contested marking opportunities is he can rarely actually put distance between himself and his opponent!


that's just not true,

he's certainly mobility impaired these days, but he was a top contested mark long before then.

[Crow-mo]

Well, you couldnt deny hed die for it ;)

but he'd want special treatment, like dialysis at half time instead of an orange!

[TheLeftFist8]

that's just not true,

he's certainly mobility impaired these days, but he was a top contested mark long before then.

I stated 'contested marking opportunities'.

Has always had good hands but would get more marks in the clear (i.e. uncontested) if he had decent mobility.

In any case, I don't care how good your contested marking is, you will mark more often if you are in the clear rather than having a defender right on you.

[Southerntakeover]

but he'd want special treatment, like dialysis at half time instead of an orange!

Hows that differ from Ben Cousins and his special treatment? :p

[Carl Spackler]

In any case, I don't care how good your contested marking is, you will mark more often if you are in the clear rather than having a defender right on you.
The term contested mark is a complete misnomer for mine.

You see Nick Reiwoldt standing shoulder to shoulder with the opposition's best defender whose sole responsibility is to stop him getting ball. Reiwoldt dodges, ducks, pushes off, reads the play, times his lead, runs harder and, hey presto, even with a half decent kick he takes the mark a couple of metres in front of his opponent. It goes down as an uncontested mark.

Bull f___in' shit. That is a contested mark.

Not that being able to take a pack mark isn't an important asset for a forward, I just think the way these types of marks are categorised doesn't do justice to the work of some of the better forwards in the competition.

[crowsup]

I hate it when people say this because of indifference of opinion. :thumbsd:

As Ron Barassi famously said, and I think this applies to McGregor " You give me possessions and I'll shut up".

I don't want to get into an argument but, if we leave the potential and age, what is the difference in the total possessions and marks between Tippett and McGregor in the last 5 matches?
:confused:

[showdownhero]

I don't want to get into an argument but, if we leave the potential and age, what is the difference in the total possessions and marks between Tippett and McGregor in the last 5 matches?
:confused:
but with all due respect regardless of the result that is a completely useless comparison.

[TheLeftFist8]

The term contested mark is a complete misnomer for mine.

You see Nick Reiwoldt standing shoulder to shoulder with the opposition's best defender whose sole responsibility is to stop him getting ball. Reiwoldt dodges, ducks, pushes off, reads the play, times his lead, runs harder and, hey presto, even with a half decent kick he takes the mark a couple of metres in front of his opponent. It goes down as an uncontested mark.

Bull f___in' shit. That is a contested mark.

Not that being able to take a pack mark isn't an important asset for a forward, I just think the way these types of marks are categorised doesn't do justice to the work of some of the better forwards in the competition.

Great point Carl.

[crowsup]

but with all due respect regardless of the result that is a completely useless comparison.

I agree with you. The reason I asked that question was to point out the irrelevance of Dogga79 quoting Barassi's ' give me possessions and I'll shut up'.
Prior posts have been (more or less) stating that Kenny is no longer valuable to the club because his possessions are few. So, if that is the criteria by which Kenny, or anybody else should be judged by, then we should compare his possessions when he plays FF against Tippett, when he is in the ff pos.
Doesn't that make sense?:)

[Crow-mo]

I stated 'contested marking opportunities'.

Has always had good hands but would get more marks in the clear (i.e. uncontested) if he had decent mobility.

In any case, I don't care how good your contested marking is, you will mark more often if you are in the clear rather than having a defender right on you.

look that's true. however it is not always possible to be in the clear, and it is near impossible in key areas on the ground. when he had greater mobility, he did get clear and he also had the ability to produce in marginal contests.

The keys parts of the grounds don't move :p

[Crow-mo]

The term contested mark is a complete misnomer for mine.

You see Nick Reiwoldt standing shoulder to shoulder with the opposition's best defender whose sole responsibility is to stop him getting ball. Reiwoldt dodges, ducks, pushes off, reads the play, times his lead, runs harder and, hey presto, even with a half decent kick he takes the mark a couple of metres in front of his opponent. It goes down as an uncontested mark.

Bull f___in' shit. That is a contested mark.

Not that being able to take a pack mark isn't an important asset for a forward, I just think the way these types of marks are categorised doesn't do justice to the work of some of the better forwards in the competition.

I agree with this. it is the ability to make something happen.

mind you contested and uncontested are still very new and entirely subjective metrics.

[Dogga79]

I agree with you. The reason I asked that question was to point out the irrelevance of Dogga79 quoting Barassi's ' give me possessions and I'll shut up'.
Prior posts have been (more or less) stating that Kenny is no longer valuable to the club because his possessions are few. So, if that is the criteria by which Kenny, or anybody else should be judged by, then we should compare his possessions when he plays FF against Tippett, when he is in the ff pos.
Doesn't that make sense?:)

It was intended to be a humourous jibe .

My point still stands that he has had minimal impact. Whether that be measured by Goals, possessions, defensive pressure, running power or whatever you define as success on the football field.

[crowsup]

It was intended to be a humourous jibe .

My point still stands that he has had minimal impact. Whether that be measured by Goals, possessions, defensive pressure, running power or whatever you define as success on the football field.

Now that makes more sense!:thumbsu:

By the way, did you hear the answer that Burton gave on 5AA this afternoon, when asked why wasn't Maric selected so Tippett could play forward full time?

[deaneus]

By the way, did you hear the answer that Burton gave on 5AA this afternoon, when asked why wasn't Maric selected so Tippett could play forward full time?

No.

...what did he say?

[crowsup]

No.

...what did he say?

He said that Maric is playing very well and may get a game soon but the selectors may believe that the team would lose the important midfield rotation and that Tippett is playing FF almost full time.

(This is in fact what I said in a post about 3 days ago.):)

[jenny61_99]

I seem to remember you posting last year that Ricciuto shouldn't be in the side because he wasn't performing. Ricciuto is a club legend and at the time, captain of the club. If you can't find room for Ricciuto, how can you now justify a position for McGregor.

Do you rate McGregor above Ricciuto?

I rate McGregors physical ability to compete in a game today far higher than I rated Roo at the time he returned. Roo had not played any sort of footy for months, was coming off a serious back injury and was completely an unknown quantity regardless of his history. I called it at the time that I felt his career was over, and unfortunately I was right. He also displaced Jericho who had just played possibly his best game for the Club.

McGregor on the other hand, who I am generally not a huge supporter of, only 7 weeks ago kicked 4 goals in the MMC grand final. He has a tremendous pair of hands and is normally a great kick for goal. As goal scoring has been an issue for our team for some time, I question the logic of dropping him and replacing him with a ruckman. As has already been discussed, Tippett is playing a large % of the game in the forward lines already, and we still aren't kicking a truck load of goals. Is it wise to reduce our capacity to score further?

[jenny61_99]

The only thing that is disapointing is your inability to see anyone elses point of view.

Look, I appreciate that McGregor has not been in great form. I just don't believe he deserves the bagging he's getting from our "supporters". I also don't believe that stating "we can't be any worse off" is a great incentive to make the change. Nobody can know for sure that the team will be better off if we replace him. The player who comes in could have an absolutely crap game and lose the game for us. Who knows? Making a change for the sake of it is not good enough. Making a change that WILL make a difference is the only one that is necessary. I am not convinced that bringing Maric in to replace Kenny will be the miracle everyone hopes it will be. Tippett being at full forward full time might actually be a disaster with our present line-up - given the fact we are missing Knights and Reilly from our mid-field and that Thommo is getting pretty much tagged out of the game. Tippett's presence around the ground has been very important so far this year. We lose that at what cost?

[Kennyrocks]

He said that Maric is playing very well and may get a game soon but the selectors may believe that the team would lose the important midfield rotation and that Tippett is playing FF almost full time.

(This is in fact what I said in a post about 3 days ago.):)
I think Ken's shown his versatility in recent weeks that he can play pretty much anywhere and while he might not set the world alight he always contributes and is a valuable member of the team.
While Maric is showing good form of late he has to keep it up, it wasn't long ago that he was very very poor and has shown little at AFL level. His output at SANFL is only just over what you'd expect as a minimum from someone in an AFL squad. Lets be honest, as an AFL listed ruckman he should be dominating in the little league.
Ken, for a big bloke, did some really good and important work around the ground both dropping into holes and digging in and under on the deck, if I didn't know better I would have said he was close to playing on the ball at times on Saturday while starting at CHF for the centre bounce.

[Markthirtytwo]

Look, I appreciate that McGregor has not been in great form. I just don't believe he deserves the bagging he's getting from our "supporters". I also don't believe that stating "we can't be any worse off" is a great incentive to make the change. Nobody can know for sure that the team will be better off if we replace him. The player who comes in could have an absolutely crap game and lose the game for us. Who knows? Making a change for the sake of it is not good enough. Making a change that WILL make a difference is the only one that is necessary. I am not convinced that bringing Maric in to replace Kenny will be the miracle everyone hopes it will be. Tippett being at full forward full time might actually be a disaster with our present line-up - given the fact we are missing Knights and Reilly from our mid-field and that Thommo is getting pretty much tagged out of the game. Tippett's presence around the ground has been very important so far this year. We lose that at what cost?


What I think a lot of supporters fail to realise with Kenny is that the club is using him as Mr. Fixit. He is plugging holes in the side and that is taking his own game away from him. If he was left just to play a HFF role then I believe his worth to the side far out ways him not being in the side at all.