New Teams in 2010/11

[phreeze77]

Is it just me or anyone else feel the same that I really dont want new sides in the AFL. As a long time Hawks supporter I've suffered through enough of having a side that just wasn't quite good enough then fell away completely.

Now that times are looking up and we have a competitve side that looks as good as anyone to win a premiership soon, the AFL brings in another hurdle to stop our momentum. Victorian sides have been put to the side for the Interstate sides and their concessions. 3 Premierships to the Lions, 1 to Port, 1 to Sydney, 1 to WCE. All this in 6 out of the last 7 premierships ... enough is enough I reckon.

These new sides will take players off us, and the AFL ruling out the Expansion Idea of our club securing our 14 best players from pilaging makes the upcoming seasons a nervous wait. We built our list through thorough planning and astute trading and alot of heart ache and for a johnny come nobody side to come in and take what is ours and being supported by the AFL to do so has me livid.

Some might say I'm being dramatic .. but I honestly feel we will lose some good players as it isn't just 1 side that needs to fill their coffers with players.

What are your thoughts?

Here is an article today on the subject.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23584071-19742,00.html

[Roughie]

Good sides are filled with great depth players, and it looks like we will loose ours. It will suck, but imagine the teams who are rebuilding? Teams who flood their list with high draft picks that are yet to be proven? These new teams will take alot of good young prospects of teams that arent in contentions for finals and will have them blossum right under their noses! I am sure the AFL wont let the teams grab 10 players off hawthorn, and only 1 off melbourne, it will be dispersed evenly.

['Bam!'bell Brown]

Why are people even worried about new clubs destroying our lists? Stupidest thing I've ever heard...

Anyone ever heard of Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Freo & Brisbane?

These new teams have done nothing but strengthened the league and led to further prosperity for all teams and the AFL.

Why will these two new ones be so different?

[phreeze77]

Port when they came in hid certain players from recruiters. Put them in a lower league not play them when other clubs recruiters came to watch .. put other clubs off the trail. They were able to have some kids in the wings on top of their recruitment drive. This is going to be much different to any other time.

These clubs will get concessions and aid by the AFL to get their men. If you think otherwise you're being naive. The AFL is greedy and it will do what ever it can to maximise profit. This is why they are pushing into non AFL markets and throwing so much money and effort to make it "work". They arent going to put sides out there that get smashed every week with rejects in the side. They will have stars, our stars lured by the dollar.

It wont destroy our list , but it will put us backwards, how far? who knows. I know one thing Im greedy as well I want to see us create a dynasty again. I want more than 1 Premiership. I want as many as we can get with out the governance of the league stepping in to "equalise" it.

[87Hawk]

Why are people even worried about new clubs destroying our lists? Stupidest thing I've ever heard...

Anyone ever heard of Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Freo & Brisbane?

These new teams have done nothing but strengthened the league and led to further prosperity for all teams and the AFL.

Why will these two new ones be so different?

I ended up losing DJarman to Adelaide and I think Tony Hall went there as well and Ben Allen(Good player to injury got him) ended up as Freo captain.

['Bam!'bell Brown]

People are so sooky and so scared...And it's still 2-3 years before anything even happens!

Complain once they take their pound of flesh, not before...Doomsayers the lot of you.

[Carn Hawkas]

I always thought 16 teams was pretty good....

[Roughie]

I always thought 16 teams was pretty good....

We still may get 16 with the Kangas and Demons?

[87Hawk]

We still may get 16 with the Kangas and Demons?

Fair call roughie, The next tv rights could be very interesting to see how many teams the AFL is prepared to support.

[superstar]

We still may get 16 with the Kangas and Demons?

Kind of what i'm hoping for. I know it's not popular with the fans of those clubs but the AFL is to blame. I don't want 18 clubs but they're going to bring in two more. Would be happy to clear a couple (I really wish the Roos had moved).

[wahawk]

Is it just me or anyone else feel the same that I really dont want new sides in the AFL. As a long time Hawks supporter I've suffered through enough of having a side that just wasn't quite good enough then fell away completely.

Now that times are looking up and we have a competitve side that looks as good as anyone to win a premiership soon, the AFL brings in another hurdle to stop our momentum. Victorian sides have been put to the side for the Interstate sides and their concessions. 3 Premierships to the Lions, 1 to Port, 1 to Sydney, 1 to WCE. All this in 6 out of the last 7 premierships ... enough is enough I reckon.

These new sides will take players off us, and the AFL ruling out the Expansion Idea of our club securing our 14 best players from pilaging makes the upcoming seasons a nervous wait. We built our list through thorough planning and astute trading and alot of heart ache and for a johnny come nobody side to come in and take what is ours and being supported by the AFL to do so has me livid.

Some might say I'm being dramatic .. but I honestly feel we will lose some good players as it isn't just 1 side that needs to fill their coffers with players.

What are your thoughts?

Here is an article today on the subject.
http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/sport/afl/story/0,26576,23584071-19742,00.html


i dont think you've read that article properly.

the AFL is against the 'expansion draft'. That means they dont want it.

the GC team looks like being involved in any draft from next year onwards and having exclusive rights to Qld and NT footballers for a couple of years.
so they wont be 'poaching' our players. if they want our players they will have to trade for them in the 2011 draft.we would be compensated by way of draft picks.

the AFL has to make any new team competative from day 1. we dont really want another 'Brisbane Bears' (a team that is not competative at all). can you imagine Qld'ers being interested in AFL if their team hadn't had some success.like it or not , interstate teams have to be competative and win premierships for the good of the competition

the ratio of Melbourne teams to interstate teams needs to be lowered. most interstate clubs post massive profits year after year while some Melbourne clubs post losses year after year. this is not good for competition.

I think you'll find that the AFL are quietly hoping that a Melb. team will decide to relocate or become extinct, which is a real possability given the finances of 1 or 2 clubs.

to answer your final paragraph , yes i think you are being dramatic cause if we lose players we wont be losing them for nothing , we will get draft picks in 2011

[Roughie]

I just worry about where are Gold Coast going to pull their members from? Brisbane are one of the lower teams in memberships if I am not mistaken and surely they would have a firm grasp on the gold coast market as it comes to membership? Throw in the way the Gold Coast Titans have been travelling in the NRL right now it is definatly going to be tough for them and they will need huge ammounts of support!

It is going to be hard to have the AFL breast feeding two new clubs, whilst other struggeling Victorian teams are looking for hand outs. Has Brayshaw even recieved a dollar yet from his knights in shining armor? Melbourne look like they are in huge trouble on and off the field they need a total revamp of their player list but then consider by the time they even look like being competitive 2 new teams will be in the league to poach their players!

[wahawk]

I just worry about where are Gold Coast going to pull their members from? Brisbane are one of the lower teams in memberships if I am not mistaken and surely they would have a firm grasp on the gold coast market as it comes to membership? Throw in the way the Gold Coast Titans have been travelling in the NRL right now it is definatly going to be tough for them and they will need huge ammounts of support!

It is going to be hard to have the AFL breast feeding two new clubs, whilst other struggeling Victorian teams are looking for hand outs. Has Brayshaw even recieved a dollar yet from his knights in shining armor? Melbourne look like they are in huge trouble on and off the field they need a total revamp of their player list but then consider by the time they even look like being competitive 2 new teams will be in the league to poach their players!


firstly , the southport sharks are involved in the GC team and apparently they have a huge membership (mostly for other benefits other than the football) so im sure that there would be some deal worked out there. the AFL has put a condition that they must be able to prove they'll have 20,000 members. i dont know how you can prove this without actually having them signed up.


secondly , they wont be poaching players. the AFL does not want an 'expansion draft'.
when the club comes into the comp. they will be no different than any other club who wants our players , they will have to offer draft picks or players and they will have to trade for them.

[phreeze77]

i dont think you've read that article properly.

the AFL is against the 'expansion draft'. That means they dont want it.



"It is believed the AFL is against an "expansion draft", where clubs would have to nominate say, their best 14 players, and allow the rest to be up for selection for the two new teams."



I'd Rather this scenario, top 14 untouchable but the rest is left to negotiation. Draft picks should be compensation for those players, they dont get them for nothing. They can have a mixture of what is being proposed now.

It wont be as massive of a dent in the list as when you lose a star player.

[Collins-Langford-Ayres]

Why are people even worried about new clubs destroying our lists? Stupidest thing I've ever heard...

Anyone ever heard of Sydney, West Coast, Adelaide, Port Adelaide, Freo & Brisbane?

These new teams have done nothing but strengthened the league and led to further prosperity for all teams and the AFL.

Why will these two new ones be so different?

Maybe you've forgotten about names like Tony Hall, Ben Allan, Luke McPharlan, Matthew Robran, Darren Jarman...

[Roughie]

firstly , the southport sharks are involved in the GC team and apparently they have a huge membership (mostly for other benefits other than the football) so im sure that there would be some deal worked out there. the AFL has put a condition that they must be able to prove they'll have 20,000 members. i dont know how you can prove this without actually having them signed up.


secondly , they wont be poaching players. the AFL does not want an 'expansion draft'.
when the club comes into the comp. they will be no different than any other club who wants our players , they will have to offer draft picks or players and they will have to trade for them.

They are paying $5 for a membership and this doesnt guarantee they will flip flop from what ever team they have originally supporterd.

So how are the new teams going to accquire ready made AFL players? They wont be able to trade as they wont have many gambeling chips besides draft picks which they wont be keen to throw them all away. Theyll have a pick in the preseason draft of course but with out a free agency system in place theyll only be able to aquire players through the draftign system which would surely mean at most theyll have 10 or so picks? 1 or 2 in the preseason draft? Some extra in the rookie draft?

[wahawk]

Maybe you've forgotten about names like Tony Hall, Ben Allan, Luke McPharlan, Matthew Robran, Darren Jarman...

Luke McPharlan went home well after the dockers got concessions.

[wahawk]

They are paying $5 for a membership and this doesnt guarantee they will flip flop from what ever team they have originally supporterd.

So how are the new teams going to accquire ready made AFL players? They wont be able to trade as they wont have many gambeling chips besides draft picks which they wont be keen to throw them all away. Theyll have a pick in the preseason draft of course but with out a free agency system in place theyll only be able to aquire players through the draftign system which would surely mean at most theyll have 10 or so picks? 1 or 2 in the preseason draft? Some extra in the rookie draft?

they are supossedly having a team up and running next year playing in either VFL or QAFL. this is so they can get the team as close to being ready (for AFL) as possible. in 2011 when the club joins the AFL they will be able to 'trade' draft picks or players (youngsters) for players from other clubs. they will have a fair few 'gambling chips' as they are set to recieve concessions that i mentioned earlier. ie; exclusive rights to Qld and NT. if they have 42 youngsters on their list in 2011 and 10 picks in the draft then they might be in the position to trade draft picks.

Hawthorn has practically built a side from nothing in 3-4 years without anywhere near the concessions that GC is set to recieve. If GC have the right people in place as Hawthorn did then they can easily be competative by 2011 and be able to trade for ready made players if they feel they need them.

[Roughie]

they are supossedly having a team up and running next year playing in either VFL or QAFL. this is so they can get the team as close to being ready (for AFL) as possible. in 2011 when the club joins the AFL they will be able to 'trade' draft picks or players (youngsters) for players from other clubs. they will have a fair few 'gambling chips' as they are set to recieve concessions that i mentioned earlier. ie; exclusive rights to Qld and NT. if they have 42 youngsters on their list in 2011 and 10 picks in the draft then they might be in the position to trade draft picks.

Hawthorn has practically built a side from nothing in 3-4 years without anywhere near the concessions that GC is set to recieve. If GC have the right people in place as Hawthorn did then they can easily be competative by 2011 and be able to trade for ready made players if they feel they need them.

So from 2009 to 2011 the Gold Coast team will be made up of Q.A.F.L. players? Many who wouldnt cut it at AFL level. They will of course have the first dibs on all QLD players come the draft. But the AFL are reluctant in letting the Gold Coast team pick talent in the national draft and getting them to play in the Q.A.F.L as develop into a team in 2011.

I personally want the AFL to clarify what system will be used to develop this team. One week it seems they are taking AFL players, the next week they arent, the next thing they are saying they might get the number 1 pick in the 2009- on wards drafts and then make their talent play at the Q.A.F.L with the developed team, and then they are reluctant to do so? The coaches and owners of all clubs are very excited for this team to come in but it will be interesting in how they will develop them.

If they are only accquiring players through drafting and trading, it will take them 3 years before they are close to competitive and you would think half their team in the first year would have many rookies, and sub league listed players.

[CAPTAINCRAWF]

Im actually pissed off by the proposal of a 17 game regular season. Shorter season, less footy to watch and only getting an opportunity to see every club play one another at home once every 2 years is crap. This proposal is supported by the AFL players association and seemingly endorsed by the AFL.

I understand that the current format is not exactly brilliant but playing 5 teams twice seems to give us a better understanding of a teams form later in the season. I prefer the older system of certainty by playing the first 5 teams again in rounds 18-22.

We could perhaps use this to improve the priority pick system. By keeping the same system we could make it that rounds 18-22 are not counted in the final standings with regard to draft picks. Points are obviously still awarded and impact the shape of the ladder but draft picks are settled by the end of round 18. With this system tanking would not be a concern as most clubs are still in the hunt between rounds 15-18 and will then have no reason to lose in the later rounds which will give the fans something to still cheer about and allow teams to end on a solid not and build towards the following year.

I have probably gone off track but I would be interested to hear other peoples views on both topics.

[wahawk]

[quote]So from 2009 to 2011 the Gold Coast team will be made up of Q.A.F.L. players?
no roughie it wont be made of QAFL players.It will be made up of draftees from all over australia.they will take part in every draft as all other AFL teams would.the only difference is that these players will be playing for GCFC but in the QAFL or VFL.
Many who wouldnt cut it at AFL level.
there is just as much a chance of these players cutting it at AFL level as there is with any other draftee.
But the AFL are reluctant in letting the Gold Coast team pick talent in the national draft and getting them to play in the Q.A.F.L as develop into a team in 2011.
the AFL aren't reluctant. the AFL have said that this could be 1 of the options.they are looking at a couple of options. ie;QAFL,VFL

I personally want the AFL to clarify what system will be used to develop this team. One week it seems they are taking AFL players, the next week they arent, the next thing they are saying they might get the number 1 pick in the 2009- on wards drafts and then make their talent play at the Q.A.F.L with the developed team, and then they are reluctant to do so?
i think you'll find that the AFL are still working on what is best which is why nothing has been clarified as yet. You need to remember that we are hearing so much from the media who dont know themselves but print/say what they like just to get a story.


If they are only accquiring players through drafting and trading, it will take them 3 years before they are close to competitive and you would think half their team in the first year would have many rookies, and sub league listed players.

you're right , it will take 3 years to become competative, which is why they want the GC to take part in the draft as of now.so that by 2011 (3 years) the club and team will be well placed to take the next step,which is AFL. there is no reason to suggest that half this team will be sub league players. as i said earlier if the right people are in place then they should be able to select a pretty good side. one that can develop over 3 years in a second tier league and hopefully have a smooth transition into AFL.

[Roughie]

[quote=Roughie;10776822]
no roughie it wont be made of QAFL players.It will be made up of draftees from all over australia.they will take part in every draft as all other AFL teams would.the only difference is that these players will be playing for GCFC but in the QAFL or VFL.



See I have heard conflicting reports that the AFL do not want the club drafting players for them just to be wasted at a junior league while the Gold Coast club is developed.



you're right , it will take 3 years to become competative, which is why they want the GC to take part in the draft as of now.so that by 2011 (3 years) the club and team will be well placed to take the next step,which is AFL. there is no reason to suggest that half this team will be sub league players. as i said earlier if the right people are in place then they should be able to select a pretty good side. one that can develop over 3 years in a second tier league and hopefully have a smooth transition into AFL.

I personally think its putting kids in a bad place. Creating a team full of young draftees to play in a junior league for three years before playing them in the AFL is a terrible prospect. If I was a young talent coming into the draft I would have my fingers crossed NOT to be drafted by the Gold Coast. These guys dont want to cut their teeth in the juniors (especially top draft picks) for three years.

Whilst the team is developing in the junior league will they have their future coach running them? For example if Sheedy was their coach for the future would he take the reigns while they are playing in the juniors or will he just jump on when they join the big league? You have to consider how is this team going to get better? Your right it took hawthorn 3 years to develop our team, but thats because our players played against the best. You improve with who your surrounded by. If these kids play juniors for three years they are going to go back to step one when they jump to the seniors (the pace of the game). Throw in if they aquire a new coach once they enter the AFL theyll have to learn a game plan. It seriously has to be the wrong way to go drafting a team over three years just to have these kids waste three years in the juniors if they could be playing senior AFL at anyother club. If I was a touted number 1 pick I would be stubborn enough to demand to sit out if I was to waste three years at the Q.A.F.L.

[Noneedforaname]

For me, I see a more mathematical problem. Add two teams, and theres two more teams competing for the tv slot that might cover a Hawks game. I see S.F.A of the Hawks now, and the addition of 2 new teams can't be good if I want to watch the Hawks, the match of the round, or the match of the day, or even a decent game of football! I will be forcefed product/ AFL propaganda that suits my local market. One of these new teams will be bogans from Western Sydney, so it will mean saturation coverage at every opportunity. Hell, I even expect swine supports will be whinging about this.

The AFL isnt interested in established markets, they are after the new territories. Established teams are taken for granted, and will be more so in the future. Teams are easily expendable in the pursuit of this growth fetish - just ask the Roos! Have a look at the response of the AFL to Tassie - taken for granted, and treated with disinterest and contempt. Clubs like our own had better get used to being treated the same way as the AFL machine rolls on in the name of progress and pursuit of television dollars.

I wont be surprised by any screwing of clubs the AFL dishes out. Just when the playing field is levelling out, in come concessions and helping hands at every opportunity. For another decade, established clubs will be 2nd class citizens.

The more I think about this, the more pi$$ed off I become.