Hawks v Tigers: Some cold facts .....

[richo1982]

I know some hawks supporters shy away from the cold hard stats when they don't suit your utopian view of yourselves as football gods this year but Richmond is ranked above hawthorn in the the prowess rating system which is definitely food for thought.
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_rankings?yr=2008&ts=TA&sr=21

I still think u are a better team but i think there are many stats indicating this will be closer than u guys think!

[GAMBLER]

1. W Bulldogs
2. Geelong
3. Richmond
4. Hawthorn

Your thread has lost all creditablity

We cant all rake up 15-20 handballs each in the back half

[moginie]

I'm going to hate myself for getting involved with a troll but here goes.
There are 2 stats there that are the greatest interest to me. The 8.8 more tackles we make during a game & the 6.6 more 1%ers we make. The cold hard fact are that Richmond are the 16th in the league for tackles.
Where are Richmond going to make up the difference this weekend?

[The Cryptkeeper]

I know some hawks supporters shy away from the cold hard stats when they don't suit your utopian view of yourselves as football gods this year but Richmond is ranked above hawthorn in the the prowess rating system which is definitely food for thought.
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_rankings?yr=2008&ts=TA&sr=21

I still think u are a better team but i think there are many stats indicating this will be closer than u guys think!


Thankyou for your insight.

Enjoy Sunday's beating.

Goodnight.

[Gilbert_Hodge]

Yeah and the AFL ladder is also good food for thought.

[Eel_storm]

lol, the ladder is an interesting stat.

[Madtiger2006]

Yeah and the AFL ladder is also good food for thought.

and it's only round 5 lol. Yoy guys can still finish mid ladder. All this hype, but we have only played 5 games and 3 of your wins have been pretty narrow. :cool:

[Gilbert_Hodge]

and it's only round 5 lol. Yoy guys can still finish mid ladder. All this hype, but we have only played 5 games and 3 of your wins have been pretty narrow. :cool:

3 of your wins have been pretty narrow..... Oh wait.:o

[hawks forever]

so umm are we up near the the top of the ladder or something, gee go hawks that must mean we are doing ok where are richmond they up with us? ohh no they are not! they must have lost a couple of games. so y are we talking stats and debating who is the better team. didnt richmond loose a 20 point lead with 10 mins to go? :eek:

[Mojo]

so umm are we up near the the top of the ladder or something, gee go hawks that must mean we are doing ok where are richmond they up with us? ohh no they are not! they must have lost a couple of games. so y are we talking stats and debating who is the better team. didnt richmond loose a 20 point lead with 10 mins to go? :eek:

I think it was something like 18 points with 2 1/2 minutes left.. but who's counting.. lol.

[Eel_storm]

Is this stats table going to come up when we win the premiership and if so, do we then hand it over to the Tiges?

[macdaddio]

I know some hawks supporters shy away from the cold hard stats when they don't suit your utopian view of yourselves as football gods this year but Richmond is ranked above hawthorn in the the prowess rating system which is definitely food for thought.
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_rankings?yr=2008&ts=TA&sr=21

I still think u are a better team but i think there are many stats indicating this will be closer than u guys think!


You only have to wait till sunday round 6.30pm to find out the real stats that matter..

if richmonds stats are so much better than hawthorns then why do they have 2.5 wins and hawthorn have 5 wins..

do the stats show how much mentaly hawthorn has improved, or how much maturity they have grown, or how much stronger they have become..

gee these stats realy define our season........

[Arrian Stubbs]

I feel like crying!!! All these Richmond supporters thinking there going to make top 8 just because they nearly beat Bulldogs!!! As you may notice we are into round 5 and you proved nothing last year! Sigh Bulldogs are NOT a good side look at their performance last year, compare there list to last years... its the SAME! They are a running side with NO TALLS! It is clear that the ladder will be something like this:
1. Geelong
2. Hawthorn
3. Sydney
4. Brisbane
5. Adelaide
6. Collingwood
7. Port Adelaide
8. St.Kilda
9. North Melbourne
10. Western Bulldogs
11. West Coast
12. Fremantle
13. Essendon
14/15. Richmond and Carlton
16. Melbourne

[phreeze77]

Geelong
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs
Sydney Swans
Adelaide
North Melbourne
St Kilda
Richmond
--------------------
Collingwood
Brisbane Lions
Carlton
Essendon
Port Adelaide
Fremantle
West Coast Eagles
Melbourne

The cold hard stat that you really should be looking for.

You've been talking smack all week , Can't wait til 7pm on sunday.

[Arrian Stubbs]

Do you really rate Western Bulldogs third, there CHF is Mitch Hahn there fullback is...... I don't even know??? They've got too many running players ala Giansiracusa, Aker, Johno, Cooney, Griffin, Gilbee and Murphy and not enough big boys such as Franklin, Roughead, Croad, Richardson, Mooney... the list goes on!

[Roughie]

Do you really rate Western Bulldogs third, there CHF is Mitch Hahn there fullback is...... I don't even know??? They've got too many running players ala Giansiracusa, Aker, Johno, Cooney, Griffin, Gilbee and Murphy and not enough big boys such as Franklin, Roughead, Croad, Richardson, Mooney... the list goes on!

Their fullback is Brian Lake a.k.a Brian Harris a.k.a The guy who had the most goals kicked on him last season.

[jiphoc]

Geelong
Hawthorn
Western Bulldogs
Sydney Swans
Adelaide
North Melbourne
St Kilda
Richmond
--------------------
Collingwood
Brisbane Lions
Carlton
Essendon
Port Adelaide
Fremantle
West Coast Eagles
Melbourne

The cold hard stat that you really should be looking for.

You've been talking smack all week , Can't wait til 7pm on sunday.
Richmond 8th? I am more thinking along the lines of Richmond finishing 9th. They seam to have a knack for doing that.

[jazz]

Did anyone actually look at those stats?

Hawks are ahead of Richmond on:

Disposals
Kicks
Contested Marks
Tackles
Goals & Behinds
Hitouts
1st possessions
Clearances
Inside 50's
Contested possessions
1 %s

Where Richmond really kill us are:
Bounces
Rebound 50's

The rest of the stats are neck and neck.

Wow - we are really in trouble based on that! :)

[FisherHawk]

Here’s some stats for ya...

Hawthorn,
Win/loss 5/0
90 goals
18 goals per game
21 disposals per goal
Inside 50's, 53 times per game
55 tackles per game
Percentage, 145.37% +191 points

Richmond,
Win/loss 2/2 + draw
81 goals
16 goals per game
23 disposals per goal,
Inside 50's, 50 times per game
39 tackles per game
Percentage, 101.69% +9 points

As you can see the Hawks are ahead in the stats that matter. It also took till round 5 for us to field a full strength team. These stats are actually a little flattering for Richmond. After this weekend, the Hawk stats will look better. The Tigers stats will look worse.

[boric1]

heres a stat for you.
The last 2 times these teams have met Hawthorn has won by just under 10 goals.

[lethalselbow]

Did anyone actually look at those stats?

Hawks are ahead of Richmond on:

Disposals
Kicks
Contested Marks
Tackles
Goals & Behinds
Hitouts
1st possessions
Clearances
Inside 50's
Contested possessions
1 %s

Where Richmond really kill us are:
Bounces
Rebound 50's

The rest of the stats are neck and neck.

Wow - we are really in trouble based on that! :)

Great point! :thumbsu: :thumbsu: I was looking at those stats and trying to work out how they rated the Tigers ahead of us based on those figures. Rebound 50's is a loser stat, it's usually very high with the crap sides (e.g. Melbourne is 41 compared to Richmond 40 on this stat) Bounces doesn't count for crap when sides handball all the time. Mind you, i love to see players run and bounce.

[richo1982]

look everyone being so defensive just proves my point. U all like to think of yourselves as football gods atm, but the fact is u are vulnerable and many stats back that up. Its quite feasible u will lose on the weekend as I have shown. U are a good side and deserve to be favourites, but can u lose ABSOLUTELY!

[Mojo]

look everyone being so defensive just proves my point. U all like to think of yourselves as football gods atm, but the fact is u are vulnerable and many stats back that up. Its quite feasible u will lose on the weekend as I have shown. U are a good side and deserve to be favourites, but can u lose ABSOLUTELY!

Mate.. stop playing the devils advocate.

It is quite feasible for Hawthorn to lose on Sunday, but our supporters are justified by being confident - especially on our board!

Previous stats won't have any baring on the fate of this match, so your perceived vulnerability of Hawthorn doesn't exist, particuarly until Hawks are beaten.

I bid you good day. ;)

[phreeze77]

look everyone being so defensive just proves my point. U all like to think of yourselves as football gods atm, but the fact is u are vulnerable and many stats back that up. Its quite feasible u will lose on the weekend as I have shown. U are a good side and deserve to be favourites, but can u lose ABSOLUTELY!


You nominate a couple of stats where Richmond are in front of us to suit your argument , we show you numourous areas where we are ahead of Richmond and you call it being defensive.

You're a troll , the only reason you havent been banished from this board is because you arent being abusive and offensive. I take offence that you post a couple of threads a day trying to say Richmond are better in certain aspects of the game. It is all set up just incase Richmond shock us and beat us , so you can come here , bump up your threads and say "I told you so!"

As for being feasable to lose , well yes it is in any game teams are vulnarable to lose, you only have to be off your game by 5-10% and the other team playing above themselves or their potential and youll go down. The pleasing thing for us is , we havent played at our best yet and have managed to win, where is Richmond has played its best and only managed 2.5 wins.

[ricta]

heres a stat for you.
The last 2 times these teams have met Hawthorn has won by just under 10 goals.

now that is a great stat!:D

[bungholes_premiers]

why the hell are people responding to this knob ?
1st of all he cant read the ladder stat ... 2nd of all his stats don't indicate how many times a player celebrates a draw - which his team DEFINATELY wins ...

stop fueling this w@nks posts

[mighty_fighting]

why the hell are people responding to this knob ?
1st of all he cant read the ladder stat ... 2nd of all his stats don't indicate how many times a player celebrates a draw - which his team DEFINATELY wins ...

stop fueling this w@nks posts

Agreed - and expect the same sort of thing from 10 - 16 August too :p

[richo1982]

[quote=phreeze77;10783279]

You're a troll , the only reason you havent been banished from this board is because you arent being abusive and offensive. I

I would have thought being abusive and offensive is the definition of being a troll! so if im not that it follows im not a troll!

Im not just finding little stats here and there and saying look we are better than u in this or that. I found general stats which incorporate a wide range of factors which have us slightly in front. Whilst Im the first to admit they don't tell the whole story, they are a reasonable indicator that Hawks may not be as good as they appear, or maybe even Richmond are being underrated. If u analyse the stats tigers have a great advantage in running bounces and rebounding the ball from 50 which I thinks supports the theory that we have much greater leg speed than Hawthorn. If we are to do well in this game we will exploit u in this area. Now I don't expect many of u to admit that the tigers might have your measure in this area of the game as you all just want to believe you are perfect and its absurd to even suggest richmond could do anything better than hawthorn but its a fact and u would be much better to face up to it than sweep it under the carpet like it doesnt exist.

[That's deliberate]

I know some hawks supporters shy away from the cold hard stats when they don't suit your utopian view of yourselves as football gods this year but Richmond is ranked above hawthorn in the the prowess rating system which is definitely food for thought.
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_rankings?yr=2008&ts=TA&sr=21

I still think u are a better team but i think there are many stats indicating this will be closer than u guys think!

Cold hard facts are that we will thump your sorry asses...now run along and post your BS statistics on your own board if it helps you sleep better at night.

[apiro]

I know some hawks supporters shy away from the cold hard stats when they don't suit your utopian view of yourselves as football gods this year but Richmond is ranked above hawthorn in the the prowess rating system which is definitely food for thought.
http://www.pro-stats.com.au/psw/web/team_rankings?yr=2008&ts=TA&sr=21

I still think u are a better team but i think there are many stats indicating this will be closer than u guys think!

Personally I don't think early season stats mean much. Even at the end of the season they will get blurred by the conditions games were played in and often also the venues, eg. a team that plays consistently at the Dome will likely have more accurate goal kicking stats than one that plays at Aurora Stadium.

In the end it comes down to head to head matches where both teams endure the same conditions. At the end of the season the ladder reflects this and all the other stats count for nought.

This is a long winded way of saying "let's see what happens Sunday".

[thatswhatimtalkinabout]

I would have thought being abusive and offensive is the definition of being a troll! so if im not that it follows im not a troll!

Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang), is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum), with the intention of baiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_%28Internet%29) other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

[Mitchell Madness]

Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang), is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum), with the intention of baiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_%28Internet%29)other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

So, by that definition, does that give me, and virtually anyone else permission to report this bastard?

[richo1982]

Troll: An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_slang), is someone who posts controversial and usually irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_forum), with the intention of baiting (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baiting_%28Internet%29)other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

I would have thought that richmonds speed superiority is very relevant considering tigers and hawks play this weekend

[jiphoc]

I would have thought that richmonds speed superiority is very relevant considering tigers and hawks play this weekend
You may have an alround faster side but... We will put more pressure on the ball carrier then you have ever experienced this year, thus causing your largely inexperienced side to make bad choices.

We may not have as many stats as you, as you have shown us. However we are equal first on the ladder and every know it all in the footy community is hyping Hawks as the new Geelong and Richmond as the team with troubles. These guys are experts on the game. Much more then anyone on this forum. Why do you think that everyone in the media are singing the same tune on these issues?

[richo1982]

You may have an alround faster side but... We will put more pressure on the ball carrier then you have ever experienced this year, thus causing your largely inexperienced side to make bad choices.

We may not have as many stats as you, as you have shown us. However we are equal first on the ladder and every know it all in the footy community is hyping Hawks as the new Geelong and Richmond as the team with troubles. These guys are experts on the game. Much more then anyone on this forum. Why do you think that everyone in the media are singing the same tune on these issues?


Thats just flat out incorrect, Richmond are gathering momentum in the media as a sleeping giant after the last 2 weeks. They most certainly are not being hyped as the team with troubles as u put it. As for Hawthorn, I'm glad you were able to admit u have a slower team than Richmond

[Goldhawk]

As for Hawthorn, I'm glad you were able to admit u have a slower team than Richmond
Well i don't believe that the Tigers are a faster side,in fact Hawthorn is superior in that department,we'll see on Sunday when the Hawks carve up the Tigers.

[raybees]

Thats just flat out incorrect, Richmond are gathering momentum in the media as a sleeping giant after the last 2 weeks. They most certainly are not being hyped as the team with troubles as u put it. As for Hawthorn, I'm glad you were able to admit u have a slower team than Richmond

After watching Hawthorn beat the Lions last week i don't think the statistics you are quoting will make any difference. Hawthorn are practically full strength ATM and in my opinion the only serious contender to Geelong. The only statistic really worth anything is the score at the end of the game because quite frankly you can focus on incidental statistics to backup any argument. Also how valid is the process used to measure the speed of the team? Heres a statistic for ya - I would be about 95% confident that Hawthorn will win. That leave one chance in twenty for the football Gods to prove us wrong.

[richo1982]

After watching Hawthorn beat the Lions last week i don't think the statistics you are quoting will make any difference. Hawthorn are practically full strength ATM and in my opinion the only serious contender to Geelong. The only statistic really worth anything is the score at the end of the game because quite frankly you can focus on incidental statistics to backup any argument. Also how valid is the process used to measure the speed of the team? Heres a statistic for ya - I would be about 95% confident that Hawthorn will win. That leave one chance in twenty for the football Gods to prove us wrong.

If only you were a bookie, I might actually make money out of gambling for once!

[Arrian Stubbs]

LOL Roughie love you to death man!!!

[Arrian Stubbs]

look everyone being so defensive just proves my point. U all like to think of yourselves as football gods atm, but the fact is u are vulnerable and many stats back that up. Its quite feasible u will lose on the weekend as I have shown. U are a good side and deserve to be favourites, but can u lose ABSOLUTELY!
Statistics mean nothing, at the end of the day no one cares if you got more inside 50s, clangers or rebounds its whoever gets the 4 points and I can put my house on it being Hawthorn this week! :cool: Richo1982 posting on behalf of the Richmond football club!

[Arrian Stubbs]

Oh I can't wait till 7:15PM Sunday, you are gonna have a lot of messages to read richo1982!

[jiphoc]

Thats just flat out incorrect, Richmond are gathering momentum in the media as a sleeping giant after the last 2 weeks. They most certainly are not being hyped as the team with troubles as u put it. As for Hawthorn, I'm glad you were able to admit u have a slower team than Richmond
Gaining momentum? Last week Richmond drew a game that they should NEVER had lost. I think after been so deflated after that, knowing fully well they only have themselves to blame that "momentum" you say would be gone.

[hawk3R_4lyfe]

dont flatter yourself or your team. Tiges will cop an absolute shellacking.

[zenmasterfu]

I have seen many of these stat-based rankings in the past, and in my opinion they always seem to underrate the Hawks. I'm not at all sure why that should be the case, and in any case there are a million different formulas can be devised.

When looking at the actual individual averages per game, we seem to be about even with Richmond in most areas, in front in some (tackles, frees-for/against, hit-outs, 1%, clearances, inside 50s), and behind in a few others (long kicks, bounces and rebound 50s). In fact, we are ahead in more than we are behind - are rebound 50s really that important?

Honestly, this ranking system must be rubbish. Richmond have about the same number of marks, but where do those marks happen? Inside 50? I don't think so. We have 22% more tackles per game than Richmond! This ranking system is a joke.

And lastly, does the formula include a weighting based on the teams faced. Where the games were played?

And lastly lastly, a quote from Mark Twain: There are three kinds of lies: Lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.

[Tigerdrive]

Gaining momentum? Last week Richmond drew a game that they should NEVER had lost. I think after been so deflated after that, knowing fully well they only have themselves to blame that "momentum" you say would be gone.

Nah I'd say it would be the opposite, they'll be pissed off that they let an opportunity slip and will be keen to make up for it.

[jiphoc]

Nah I'd say it would be the opposite, they'll be pissed off that they let an opportunity slip and will be keen to make up for it.
That is not momentum though. If you ever did physics in school you would know that to have momentum you need to be moving in the first place or in our case winning.