Standing Ovation When Defeated

[NiGHTFuRY]

Why give a standing ovation when in defeat ??
Sure, it was a almost unbelievable effort, and in the context of team performance in how we played against Richmond and have improved steadily since then, the turnaround cannot be understated.
Thing is, we still cop shit for the standing ovation from some supporters after the Essendon final.
And some supporters did it last night as well.
We did blow two good leads to lose the match - no matter which way you slice it. I can't applaud that.
I am just wondering why some people clapped?
....because the actions of a few tends to reflect on all supporters.

[London Docker]

there is a big thread regarding this in the general forum....
many seem to think it reflects the culture of the club...close enough is good enough. wasn't at the game so can't talk for everyone there, but listening on the radio....didn't make me feel like clapping too much

[vealesy]

hopefully they were applauding the drama of the game and the contest freo provided.

applauding mediochrity is deplorable and sends a signal that anything other than success is acceptable.

cats fans used to do it and i hated them for it.

you guys had that game sewn up for 90% of it and blew it.
i would not be proud if that was my club.

[couchy555]

Prolly coz its the culture of your club at the moment. You get so many games where your team looks like its uninterested and so u applaud any signs of life. I noticed it too when they came off the ground, and from what i saw, it was more than just a few.

[erical]

Disgraceful if that happened.Port players would be abused by everyone for letting them win like that and everyone would have called Tredders a useless prat for hitting the post if it was him.

[Bradesmaen]

I was happy with it. We were expected to get flogged, the crowd are just acknowledging such a gritty performance. Big fricken deal it happens all the time.

[NiGHTFuRY]

..and thus, the actions of a few taint the many.. :( ..and it never seems to go away.

I'm telling myself they where applauding an entertaining and exciting match...

[Shadow Man]

I was proud of them, they were outclassed at times but kept fighting back. We were undermanned through injury yet kept finding something.

No one has got close to Geelong this season and if Pavs kick had of been two inches to the left, we would have been celebrating a great victory.

They had a red hot dip last night and I reckon I got bang for my buck.

[shibz_1989]

FFS, who gives a shit if some people clapped them off? I did, not because I was happy with the result, but because we played almost 4 quarters of bloody awesome, inspirational footy, which is exactly what I've been after for the past few years.

The Essendon standing ovation I can understand criticism, due to it being such a flogging, but ffs, 1 point? You have to give them some credit.

[chook2734]

NF, I didn't clap, but I think for a lot who did, it was about appreciating the contest as much as anything - it was one of the best games at Subi in a very long time. A lot of supporters let them know what they thought against Richmond with some booing, perhaps it's the same ones letting them know that what they saw last night is what they expect?

Everything Freo seems to be magnified. We get questioned on the amount of booing in WA, yet I listened to the Carlton/Adelaide game and if they weren't booing all day, then I don't know what it was.

Footy's an emotional game, I don't think we should get so upset when some of our supporters show that emotion in the heat of the moment.

[wehavethepassion]

FFS, who gives a shit if some people clapped them off? I did, not because I was happy with the result, but because we played almost 4 quarters of bloody awesome, inspirational footy, which is exactly what I've been after for the past few years.

The Essendon standing ovation I can understand criticism, due to it being such a flogging, but ffs, 1 point? You have to give them some credit.

Obviously you and I were at different games. The Dockers played about 2 and a half Qs of football and lost by apoint

if they had of played for a bit longer the result would probasbly different!!

[Rabbitoh]

Boo them , you cop shit. Clap em, you cop shit.
Sydney was behind Geelong 10 poiints, 19 minutes into the last quarter. Geelong banged on 5 goals and flogged em in the end. That's what they do. They're a Juggernaut.
We were classy, we had our entire Fullback line off the field in the last quarter injured, sweet F.A for an interchange bench, and we took the Cats to the wire. We lost that game by 3 inches. 3 inches to the left and we woulda won. It was an outstanding effort, that created an awesome atmosphere. Damn straight I'll clap. It was entertainment worth clapping.
I'll say it again as well: Bring Dessie back and that's our team to persevere with for the year.

[LuvMyHawks]

Maybe it was for Sandilands, he played the game of his life last night. He was the BOG for me. What a great, terrific effort by him. I have never seen him play a better game, and I think he played without a break. (May be wrong) He showed everyone last night he can be a great ruckman, he was everywhere on the ground, Well done..:thumbsu: He must be dead on his feet today.
And BTW it was a terrific game to watch..

[Ripper]

Maybe it was for Sandilands, he played the game of his life last night. He was the BOG for me. What a great, terrific effort by him. I have never seen him play a better game, and I think he played without a break. (May be wrong) He showed everyone last night he can be a great ruckman, he was everywhere on the ground, Well done..:thumbsu: He must be dead on his feet today.
And BTW it was a terrific game to watch..

He had a brief spell in the 2nd Qtr , co-incidentaly that was when the Cat's comeback started.

Don't worry what people think , after we cheered them off in 2003 far from the players thinking near enough was good , they responded by having the best start to a season ever (for Freo) in 2004 - being 5-1 after six rounds.

[London Docker]

Don't worry what people think , after we cheered them off in 2003 far from the players thinking near enough was good , they responded by having the best start to a season ever (for Freo) in 2004 - being 5-1 after six rounds.[/quote]

but then we didn't make the finals again until 2006......

[FootyEater]

I must admit, had i been at the game i would have been too shattered to clap. i can sort of understand supporters who did clap, we came up against the second best team in the last decade (first being Brisbane) with an undermanned, young line up, and got ourselves into a position where we probably should have won. and i am quite proud of the boys, well all except gilmore and mcmanus anyway.

but we cant accept mediocrity and losses, that is the neesham/connoly/drum way. we need to start accepting nothing but victories, you dont see other teams giving standing ovations for a loss.

special mentions for me in last nights game.
Pav- what a player, was fantastic all night, and if he had that shot on goal another hundred times im sure he would have kicked 99 of them. he will have nightmares for a while im sure.

Belly- a true star, gives his all, im not sure we know just how much we will miss him untill he's gone

Crowley- played on a superstar and beat him in every sense of the word, loved his game, his attitude, he is definetly one of my favourties

Thornton- came in after an ordinary game last week, and i thought was just great. good effort scotty

Ibbo- brought his own ball, going to be a real star, just needs to harden up a bit, shirked a few issues which disappointed me, but all in all was a good player on the day

Michael johnson- have been a big critic of this guy, but he showed how damaging he can be. great game

Josh carr- beat the best midfielder in the AFL, he's my favourite player, and showed that he plays his best footy as a tagger.

Palmer- This guy will be the best midfielder in the comp in four years time. and the fact that he told essendon and west coast to go screw themselves when they showed interest during last years draft makes me love him even more

Solly- had a slow start to the year but was brilliant last night. tough determined and really played with anzac spirit.

Finally- Sandilands- i have also been a massive critic of this guy, always thought he was overrated, couldnt mark, tapped to the opposition too much, but he was BOG by a long way, 10 clearances, 42 hitouts, took marks and kicked a goal brilliant.... and i would take a game like his last night over the best of dean cox's or brendon lade's anyday. the best performance by a ruckman i have ever seen. but thats just me

[raffrox]

I was at the game and I didn't clap and was pissed that people did.

We lost.

I want that to burn in the players stomaches so much that they win 12 straight. Them feeling slightly better about the loss doesn't do anything for me.

[NiGHTFuRY]

Thats how I feel, but it seems [and no offense meant BUT] some are happy to accept near enough is good enough. .. and by clapping thats the message it sends to everyone else out there...

But I guess we are all entitled to whatever we wish to express our feelings post match, and thats just that.
I was too shattered to even contemplate smiling post match...

[Ripper]

Don't worry what people think , after we cheered them off in 2003 far from the players thinking near enough was good , they responded by having the best start to a season ever (for Freo) in 2004 - being 5-1 after six rounds.

but then we didn't make the finals again until 2006......[/quote]


Yep , the grizzling started in the 2nd half of 2004 and didn't let up until last night.

You don't have to be Einstien to work out that they will play exceptional footy when the crowd is behind them as it was from the get go last night.

[Bradesmaen]

Thats how I feel, but it seems [and no offense meant BUT] some are happy to accept near enough is good enough. .. and by clapping thats the message it sends to everyone else out there...

But I guess we are all entitled to whatever we wish to express our feelings post match, and thats just that.
I was too shattered to even contemplate smiling post match...
How many people have to post that the clapped for the contest and for the fact that we stretched a team that won the AFL GF by 119 points. Seriously, how many people? We aren't happy that we lose, we are never happy. But you can be happy with a PERFORMANCE in a loss. Its not about yay yay yay we got so close yay yay yay its a win!

[Sman-21]

I was too dissapointed too clap an pretty much just sat there stunned after the pavlich shot.

My head went back arms on head an just sat there stunned thinking what if,oh so close Ahhhhhhhhhh for a few mins.

Can see why people clapped great effort,great to watch we want to see them put in efforts like that every week.

[NiGHTFuRY]

As many people can post here as they want... and like I typed you are entitled to let the team know how you feel any way you want.

I am happy with the grit we displayed... very happy with the improved form...
But we dropped two leads...

[London Docker]

ripper

interesting theory....lets see how it stacks up over the rest of this season...hopefully your right and we get on a roll

[bigkev bleeds purple]

Guys questioning the clapping, that's poor form :thumbsd:

I was clapping as loud as I could and using what little voice I had left to give the "Freeeeeoooooooooooooooooo" chant everything I had. How could you possibly not be inspired by the fact that the team gave a good account of themselves, made the reigning premiers look like absolutely hopeless hacks for long periods and battled manfully until the bitter end to come up short by the barest of margins after the Cats had three clowns in yellow trying their level best all night long to get them over the line!

If you think we don't have a right to be damn proud of the boys and try to warm their broken hearts after the battle was fought hard and lost, go and top up your glass until it's at least half full! :mad:

[Ripper]

Guys questioning the clapping, that's poor form :thumbsd:



Yep, makes a mockery of the oft repeated "I don't care if we win or lose - I just want to see them give their all".

[Freeeoo]

If you pay your money and you wanna clap your team off - go right ahead.
Don't let to some wacker from Port or whoever else tell you how to act.
IMO, and I have watched a lot of foorty over the years, our supporters provide a better atmosphere than any other group of supporters.

[dockers_bengals]

Guys questioning the clapping, that's poor form :thumbsd:

I was clapping as loud as I could and using what little voice I had left to give the "Freeeeeoooooooooooooooooo" chant everything I had. How could you possibly not be inspired by the fact that the team gave a good account of themselves, made the reigning premiers look like absolutely hopeless hacks for long periods and battled manfully until the bitter end to come up short by the barest of margins after the Cats had three clowns in yellow trying their level best all night long to get them over the line!

If you think we don't have a right to be damn proud of the boys and try to warm their broken hearts after the battle was fought hard and lost, go and top up your glass until it's at least half full! :mad:

Very well put,Im proud of the fact we had the balls to cheered them off without any proir planning or prompting in the Essendon final for the year we had and didn't Sheedy say how fantastic it was and it's a shame other fans didn't do it.
Why not show them that this is what we want and that we where proud of the effort even though we went down I'm sure they didn't go in the rooms after and laugh and smile because of it.So does this mean we only trash them and boo for games like Richmond one but when they play well we give no reconition unless we win,that is just weak.For we are Freo and opposition supporters hate the fact that we have the balls to do it. and be different.

[Cheetah]

So by that logic, maybe we shouldn't applaud the fighting spirit of our boys at Anzac Cove because they fell short too?

Get a grip!!!!!!!

Great effort deserves recognition, we were two inches away from the upset of the season.

[docker_azza]

Yep, I think the way we commemorate those who served at Gallipoli contradicts the criticism given to those fans who clapped the team off for their efforts last night.

[DockersMad]

For a start, the title of this thread is pure exaggeration and people appear to be getting carried away with themselves.

There was not a standing ovation. People were clapping and they just happened to be on their feet because it was a tense final few seconds and moreso because that's what you do when the footy finishes.

Genuine Fremantle supporters (and I'm surprised to find that some posters in this forum are happy to indicate that they are not) were applauding the team's effort in maintaining intensity and pressure against an adversary that many people were beginning to declare unbeatable. For providing what we have been asking of them and for one of the most entertaining contests you will get to see.

Sure, the result was devastating. I was stunned and I didn't want to move. But when the boys left the field I applauded them because they deserved it.

If certain people would like me to blow them off as a pathetic bunch of losers who shouldn't have even bothered coming onto the paddock after a game like that for fear of tainting Fremantle supporters with some sort of mythical mediocrity acceptance disorder, I challenge you to come sit with me and stare into the player's eyes as they are leaving the field and tell them exactly what you think of them. Really let yourself go in amongst a group of genuine passionate supporters and see how you get on.

If you can't rise to that challenge, how about you go have a good hard look at yourself and decide whether you really are a Dockers supporter, because at Freo we don't accept mediocrity and we won't tolerate it from you.

[shibz_1989]

For a start, the title of this thread is pure exaggeration and people appear to be getting carried away with themselves.

There was not a standing ovation. People were clapping and they just happened to be on their feet because it was a tense final few seconds and moreso because that's what you do when the footy finishes.

Genuine Fremantle supporters (and I'm surprised to find that some posters in this forum are happy to indicate that they are not) were applauding the team's effort in maintaining intensity and pressure against an adversary that many people were beginning to declare unbeatable. For providing what we have been asking of them and for one of the most entertaining contests you will get to see.

Sure, the result was devastating. I was stunned and I didn't want to move. But when the boys left the field I applauded them because they deserved it.

If certain people would like me to blow them off as a pathetic bunch of losers who shouldn't have even bothered coming onto the paddock after a game like that for fear of tainting Fremantle supporters with some sort of mythical mediocrity acceptance disorder, I challenge you to come sit with me and stare into the player's eyes as they are leaving the field and tell them exactly what you think of them. Really let yourself go in amongst a group of genuine passionate supporters and see how you get on.

If you can't rise to that challenge, how about you go have a good hard look at yourself and decide whether you really are a Dockers supporter, because at Freo we don't accept mediocrity and we won't tolerate it from you.

I second what he/she (sorry, unsure :o) said.

The most heart breaking thing yesterday was seeing Murphy crouching on the ground. His face almost brought a tear to my eye. As I said to my mate, they would be feeling ten times worse. Pavlich especially, although it is NOT his fault we lost. We lose as a team.

[Specs]

Did you see the players after the game, in the locker room? Do you really think that being clapped from the ground by people who have been watching the club's torturous journey for over a decade makes them feel that they did enough? Do you really think they slapped each other on the back and said, 'well, the crowd clapped - we don't need to win a game'?

Maybe, just maybe, Freo supporters are a cut above the rest. They can see when a team has given its all. They understand when players have given every ounce of fight they have. It's not about acceptance. It's about encouragement.

I pay my money to support the team, and if I choose to applaude effort and endeavour, and frankly the best game I've seen from my team in a long while, I will.

[kranger]

I think this thread, by itself, goes to show just how passionate FREO supporters are. we are proud of our team, and we are vocal, and even though we all have different opinions on how to show our feelings, our feelings are pure and loyal.

[DockersMad]

I second what he/she (sorry, unsure :o) said.


Thanks for the support Shibz.

I'm a man btw, at least I hope my wife thinks so.

If you want to see what I look like when I'm angry, apparently I managed a showing on Channel 7 providing some sound technical advice to the umpire.

I haven't seen the replay yet so I don't know which particular time it was, but it may have been when The Wiz was tackled as he kicked the ball in exactly the same fashion he gets pinged 50m for every game. I know its fair, the umpires know its fair, but when its our Jeffery things just aren't black and white any more.

I hope I don't get the Dockers tagged with an "ugly supporter" mentality syndrome and start another bash freo frenzy. I must admit I get a little white line fever sitting OnTheFence.

[kranger]

it seems the eagles have a similar moral battle amongst themselves over a similar situation.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10817084#post10817084

[DockersMad]

it seems the eagles have a similar moral battle amongst themselves over a similar situation.

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=10817084#post10817084

Similar, but not the same. The Dockers put in a magnificent effort, the Eagles capitulated, they should have booed them off.

[PapaJ]

I was at the game and I didn't clap and was pissed that people did.

We lost.

I want that to burn in the players stomaches so much that they win 12 straight.

It will. Whether they were clapped off or not wouldn't make a bit of difference to fundamentally how guttered they would have felt. They know better than us how significant that win could have been.

Them feeling slightly better about the loss doesn't do anything for me.

Yes because it's all about you ...

As many people can post here as they want... and like I typed you are entitled to let the team know how you feel any way you want.

I am happy with the grit we displayed... very happy with the improved form...
But we dropped two leads...

It all about context. There wouldn't have been many who clapped them off against Hawks, and well the Richmond game goes without saying. Great teams come back quickly against good teams all the time (look at the Eagles during their premiership year). Geelong have done it before and they will do it again against more fancied teams than freo. We didn't simply let them in, they are bloody good - and if I was there, I probably would have clapped (if I could get my hands out of my hair after the Pav miss) because it was a great contest and they gave it their all against all the odds (reasons already stated like injuries etc.).

[docker_azza]

At the end of the day it's up to the players to make of it what they will.

[Rockford]

..and thus, the actions of a few taint the many.. :( ..and it never seems to go away.

I'm telling myself they where applauding an entertaining and exciting match...

There wasn't just a few where I was sitting. Everyone was on their feet, I stood up in the end so I could see the players walk off the ground. I didn't really understand it, assumed it was for the tightness of the contest but then once Freo had dejectedly walked off the ground the crowd stayed on their feet and booed as Geelong walked off.

[raffrox]

Yes because it's all about you ...



Sorry. Didn't realise I wasn't allowed an opinion.

Are you some kind of footy martyr? I go to the footy to enjoy myself. It is about how I feel about things.

You obviously are using your emotions to post your crap against me. Why can't I do the same about my opinion of the game?

[raffrox]

Yep, makes a mockery of the oft repeated "I don't care if we win or lose - I just want to see them give their all".
May be when I watch my 10 year old play.

Multi million dollar business that has been getting a free ride for too long.

A bit of a clap is fine and people are free to do what ever they want. Including clap. Clap if it floats your boat.

Don't take some moral high ground because I didn't clap and that annoyed that others did. Doen't make you a better Freo person.

[ImperialPurple]

I was at the game and I didn't clap and was pissed that people did.

We lost.

I want that to burn in the players stomaches so much that they win 12 straight. Them feeling slightly better about the loss doesn't do anything for me.

My feelings exactly.

Well I wasn't that pissed off that others did, they can do what they want. ATEOTD we took it up to Geleong, but fell short by letting them kick 5 unanswered goals at the start of the last quarter. That was so bitterly disappointing, that I didn't have the wherewithall to even consider clapping - didn't even enter my psyche at the time.

[Nodgey]

I didn't clap. Didn't feel like clapping at all. And I knew as soon as it happened, I just knew it would make headlines.

Pisses me off. I was gutted at that loss. We owned that game. Lead for 90% of the match. But we coughed up two healthy leads, and we lost. Doesn't matter how, we can't blame an umpiring decision, or a shot on goal that hit the inside of the post. We lost.

IMO that does not deserve a resounding generous applause. Maybe 10 or 11 years ago when Freo were a young, inexperienced, exciting, promising side, but FFS we've been around long enough now.

Yes, it was a great game of footy. Yes, it was entertaining. Yes, it was a brilliant, courageous effort from us Dockers. Against the reigning premiers, no less. But we lost.

Near enough is not good enough in this game.

People can clap whatever they want to, they can do whatever they bloody well like as far as I'm concerned. But I didn't clap. I got out of that ground as quickly as I could, and I moped off home thinking about what might have been. I wasn't happy at all. I was gutted.

[dominguez]

Anyone who applauds a loss is a loser. I was bitterly disappointed and the last thing I felt like doing was clapping.

[Lach72]

Anyone who applauds a loss is a loser. I was bitterly disappointed and the last thing I felt like doing was clapping.

...especially when spitting is so much more appropriate...

[bushie]

My feelings exactly.

Well I wasn't that pissed off that others did, they can do what they want. ATEOTD we took it up to Geleong, but fell short by letting them kick 5 unanswered goals at the start of the last quarter. That was so bitterly disappointing, that I didn't have the wherewithall to even consider clapping - didn't even enter my psyche at the time.

I wasn't at the game......however that just about sums up my reaction as well!

[NiGHTFuRY]

I copped shit for this thread only a week ago...

Again I pose the question... some of you clapping off a team after a defeat....

Why?

Now look at the match against Melbourne... Woudl you clapp them off...??

No matter which way we played, It just shouldn't be done when you lose..

The stigma that gets stuck to the rest of the supporters who don't accept it and clap them off sucks frankly...

[purplefrog]

I copped shit for this thread only a week ago...

Again I pose the question... some of you clapping off a team after a defeat....

Why?

Now look at the match against Melbourne... Woudl you clapp them off...??

No matter which way we played, It just shouldn't be done when you lose..

The stigma that gets stuck to the rest of the supporters who don't accept it and clap them off sucks frankly...
Whilst we all acknowledge in theory applauding a win and condemming a loss. I believe we should show appreciation for the efforts put in by the players. As distressed as I was by the loss against Geelong I stood up and applauded their unsuccessful effort. If I was at the game yesterday and should we have stumbled over the line by maybe 1 or 2 points after being in front by 51, I would have been happy for the win but not have applauded their efforts.

[PapaJ]

I copped shit for this thread only a week ago...

Again I pose the question... some of you clapping off a team after a defeat....

Why?

Now look at the match against Melbourne... Woudl you clapp them off...??

No matter which way we played, It just shouldn't be done when you lose..

The stigma that gets stuck to the rest of the supporters who don't accept it and clap them off sucks frankly...

By all means don't applaud good effort, but what a ridiculous question. Comparing yesterday's game with Geelong's loss is like comparing apples with steak. Even if they scrapped a win, I would have been annoyed with the teams performance and frankly would have only provided a false dawn - mind you, I would have taken the win in any case - and if you think some supporters applauding the effort against Geelong affected this game, well sure hope not. What we do should have little to do with how they conduct themselves - it's called being a professional sportsman.

As to what other people think - who gives a rats, fortunately my life is a touch bigger than that.

Boy, some of the chestnuts that are coming out after the diabolical result this weekend :(

[NiGHTFuRY]

A simple I disagree Papa J would suffice...

By the way... what is so different apart from the teams we played in the matches against Melbourne & Geelong... Both narrowish losses..

The first problem in dealing with turning our culture around is to not applaud a narrow defeat to one team....
everyone appreciates good effort but we've had too many years of bullshit heaped upon us and I refuse to accept it. I and I daresay we all want consistant strong & successful efforts by our club and premierships....
Perhaps the fans could do the 1% stuff as well that we demand of our team.

Who's to say whether the clapping off by some affected the weeks performance. I cannot say it did or didn't...

It does however tarnish everyone and whilst that may not mean much to you it does to some.I know I am not alone with this mindset...

At the end of the day we're all Freo supporters...

Guess it's a perspective thing...

[DockersMad]

A simple I disagree Papa J would suffice...

By the way... what is so different apart from the teams we played in the matches against Melbourne & Geelong... Both narrowish losses..

The first problem in dealing with turning our culture around is to not applaud a narrow defeat to one team....
everyone appreciates good effort but we've had too many years of bullshit heaped upon us and I refuse to accept it. I and I daresay we all want consistant strong & successful efforts by our club and premierships....
Perhaps the fans could do the 1% stuff as well that we demand of our team.

Who's to say whether the clapping off by some affected the weeks performance. I cannot say it did or didn't...

It does however tarnish everyone and whilst that may not mean much to you it does to some.I know I am not alone with this mindset...

At the end of the day we're all Freo supporters...

Guess it's a perspective thing...

Get a grip NIGHTFuRY. The actions of one/some/many does not "tarnish" anyone. If you don't want to applaud effort, fine. If I want to stand on my head and sing the macarena it should be no concern of yours.

[raffrox]

Get a grip NIGHTFuRY. The actions of one/some/many does not "tarnish" anyone. If you don't want to applaud effort, fine. If I want to stand on my head and sing the macarena it should be no concern of yours.
But in support of Nightfury it does demonstrate a close enough is good enough mentality.

I didn't applaud after the Geelong loss and I'm bloody glad I didn't.

You got to earn respect and although I'll support them until the day I die the club doesn't have my respect right now.

[PalaceGun]

We really do have soem strange supporters. I watched us play Essendon a few seasons ago at Docklands. Sat next to what seemed an ordinary Docker supporter, had a bit of a discussion on the game etc. Dockers played about one quarter of football and floated around for the other three and we went down by about 5 goals. Eseendon did nothing special, we just only rocked up for the 3rd quarter.

Anyway, comes the end of the game and said Docker supporter starts clapping Essendon off the ground. I was dumbfounded...

[Nodgey]

I'm with Nightfury on this one.

I didn't clap the team off after last weeks effort - never contemplated it - but all the media had to say about it was to the effect of "the FFC fans clapped their team off after a loss" - they very much DID tarnish us all with the same brush.

I was thinking about this thread just minutes after the game, and would have brought this back up instead if NF hadn't beaten me to it.

We should not accept a loss in any way, shape or form. By all means support the boys, but we simply CAN NOT accept half hearted efforts. And the effort against Geelong simply was not good enough.

The facts are we have lost 2 games in a row that we should have won, and won comfortably. There is something seriously wrong with this club that needs fixing and fixing soon. Melbourne would have been dead and buried against ANY other club in the comp - but they gave themselves a chance becasue it was us. They KNOW that Freo are vulnerable. No matter the situation, teams will ALWAYS give themselves against Freo.

Clapping a loss sends a signal to some of the boys that near enough is good enough. Well it aint. And the sooner they realise that the better we'll all be.

Rant over. But seriously, I'm furious about this. Last week's effort had me gutted, but I eventually moved on. This effort has seriously dented my confidence. I feel like I've been cheated on...

[PapaJ]

A simple I disagree Papa J would suffice...

Sorry NF, just a bit emotionally on edge after the trauma of this weekend :o.

By the way... what is so different apart from the teams we played in the matches against Melbourne & Geelong... Both narrowish losses..

I'll give you one thing, any thing that could have been salvaged from the Geelong game was thrown away with the mess of yesterday's second half. If the club backed up a solid but unlucky loss against the out and out favourite for the flag with a mighty demonstration of superiority against Mel (which is what it should have been), then the 'applause' would have been more deserving because that performance was a 'line in the sand'. As it was, it was just another 'near enough is not good enough' result ... not sure if that makes sense ... it's about context.

[purplefrog]

I'm with Nightfury on this one.

I didn't clap the team off after last weeks effort - never contemplated it - but all the media had to say about it was to the effect of "the FFC fans clapped their team off after a loss" - they very much DID tarnish us all with the same brush.

I was thinking about this thread just minutes after the game, and would have brought this back up instead if NF hadn't beaten me to it.

We should not accept a loss in any way, shape or form. By all means support the boys, but we simply CAN NOT accept half hearted efforts. And the effort against Geelong simply was not good enough.

The facts are we have lost 2 games in a row that we should have won, and won comfortably. There is something seriously wrong with this club that needs fixing and fixing soon. Melbourne would have been dead and buried against ANY other club in the comp - but they gave themselves a chance becasue it was us. They KNOW that Freo are vulnerable. No matter the situation, teams will ALWAYS give themselves against Freo.

Clapping a loss sends a signal to some of the boys that near enough is good enough. Well it aint. And the sooner they realise that the better we'll all be.

Rant over. But seriously, I'm furious about this. Last week's effort had me gutted, but I eventually moved on. This effort has seriously dented my confidence. I feel like I've been cheated on...
We are not clapping a loss we are applauding the effort on the day by a team that is clearly not in the same class as Geelong. An effort on the day worthy of recognition.
I would not have applauded had we stumbled across the line by a couple of points against Melbourne after holding a 51 point lead.

[DockersMad]

I wouldn't give a standing ovation to a chair-sniffer either, but apparently many people in the liberal party thought that showing solidarity for their party and leader was more important than how they would all be tarnished.

[relapse]

Seriously what is with that, if the Crows went down to Geelong by 1 point after being up by 40 points up I wouldnt be clapped them off, I would mad as hell and consider it to be unacceptable. Noone else at Football Park would clap them off either.

I even sometimes reluctantly clap for a win that has been tarnished by the crows playing badly, for instance our win on Saturday night, the crowd only half heartedly clapped them off as they were very unimpressed with letting North to outscore us by 5 goals in the last quarter. Call it being tough supporters, but the club knows as supporters our expectations are high and the results speak for themselves.

Get rid of the acceptance of mediocrity and you will begin to fix the problems at the club.

[dominguez]

Too many people associated with the club are happy with mediocrity.
The Chairman.
The CEO.
The players.
The fans.

[dockers_bengals]

Seriously what is with that, if the Crows went down to Geelong by 1 point after being up by 40 points up I wouldnt be clapped them off, I would mad as hell and consider it to be unacceptable. Noone else at Football Park would clap them off either.

I even sometimes reluctantly clap for a win that has been tarnished by the crows playing badly, for instance our win on Saturday night, the crowd only half heartedly clapped them off as they were very unimpressed with letting North to outscore us by 5 goals in the last quarter. Call it being tough supporters, but the club knows as supporters our expectations are high and the results speak for themselves.

Get rid of the acceptance of mediocrity and you will begin to fix the problems at the club.

So the players play well because of the fear of upsetting the supporters.:D

[relapse]

So the players play well because of the fear of upsetting the supporters.:D

No and I dont think you get what I am meaning, it has nothing to do with upsetting the supporters, but more about the supporters setting an example that the club does not accept performances like that, that attitude then gets instilled into the players so that the players know the bar is set high at the club and top level performances are required. As I jokingly said before that Pav grew up as a Crows supporter used to have a membership and go to our games could be part of reason why he is one of the few guys in your side that will put his hand up when needed.

Now dont get me wrong, obviously if our side was rebuilding and were a side full of kids then you could see some positives in a loss like that and there could be a reason for clapping them off in encouragement, BUT Freo have the oldest squad in the AFL which means that the club believe that they are close to a premiership.

Under similar circumstances Adelaide supporters wouldnt have accepted a loss against Geelong they would have been livid, I suspect every other club would feel the same. Clapping the side off the field gives them the belief that a loss is acceptable and that they have done enough.

[NiGHTFuRY]

I think relapse has managed to succesfully expand on what i'm trying to say with this thread.
I don't mind if I cop a bit for this one because I feel strongly about it, because if I ruffle a few feathers with this point, and I am certainly not having a big go at any of fellow freo fans..
I feel we all have to help "guide" the team in one of the only ways we can to where we want them to be...
Also being asking ourselves the hard questions like this and others raised i other threads will help us in the long run...
I'm just trying to say we have to stop applauding anything but a win... and even with a win you can be selective in what you applaud as a good effort or not...

Don't worry PapaJ - we all had a very bad weekend footy wise, one of the worst to be honest..

[bushie]

A very big acknowledgement to NF for having the guts to post this in the first place and then to bump it and reinforce his argument.

Respect mate!:thumbsu:

And, IMO, he is dead right.

There can be no more acceptance of close enough is good enough.

It bloody well isn't, and acknowledging losses, regardless of the scoreline or effort involved, is simply not on.

If we are good enough to be 50 in front of Melbourne or 1 in front of Geelong...we should be good enough to bring home the 4 points.

You clap under 12's for gutsy losses and squandering leads......not professional footballers!!




*kudos also to relapse for his inciscive and relevant posts*:thumbsu:

It embarrasses me that an Adelaide supporter has to spell out the facts of life to some of you!!!And it's more than a pity that a few more of us didn't think like him!

[DockersMad]

A very big acknowledgement to NF for having the guts to post this in the first place and then to bump it and reinforce his argument.

Respect mate!:thumbsu:

And, IMO, he is dead right.

There can be no more acceptance of close enough is good enough.

It bloody well isn't, and acknowledging losses, regardless of the scoreline or effort involved, is simply not on.

If we are good enough to be 50 in front of Melbourne or 1 in front of Geelong...we should be good enough to bring home the 4 points.

You clap under 12's for gutsy losses and squandering leads......not professional footballers!!


*kudos also to relapse for his inciscive and relevant posts*:thumbsu:

It embarrasses me that an Adelaide supporter has to spell out the facts of life to some of you!!!And it's more than a pity that a few more of us didn't think like him!

Are you sure that bottle you had didn't have a worm in it Bushie?

[SPEEDWAGON]

I must first classify this,

i did not clap at 1/4 time, half time, 3/4 time or the end of the geelong match.

nor did i clap at the 03 final.

cheering or clapping rewards a loss. I am sure the players didnt really appreciate it at the time.

I am not sure but i think it is an idiotic little brother attitude.

We do have the highest percentage of female members this is the only explanation i can fathom.

[bushie]

Are you sure that bottle you had didn't have a worm in it Bushie?


I love good quality Mezcal:thumbsu:

But no, I am not tripping, I just strongly believe that the current supporter reaction mirrors our current performance on the field..

We do accept second best, and until we stop that, it is nigh on impossible to expect the players mind sets to change.

They need to feel our pain, embarrassment and disgust when we lose.....not some misguided loyalty that drives some to acknowledge that .....hey we gave it our best shot!

It isn't our best shot.....giving it your best shot means that you win a shit load more times than this club does!!

If one of my employees does a great job for 75% of the time, do I praise him for it??

No! He either lifts his game or he is out on his arse very quickly.

A professional football side is no different IMO.

[bigkev bleeds purple]

I'm going to cop it for this, but frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

If I were at the MCG I would've clapped. It wouldn't have been a raucous standing ovation and lung bursting Freeeeeeeoooooooooo chant like the week before, nor one of those shy two finger queen claps. I would've clapped because I am a Fremantle supporter and my primary function is to support. And that doesn't mean that I only support the boys when they win in a fashion that I deem to be sufficiently dominant. That's for fairweather 'supporters' and bandwagoners. Supporting means being there even when you feel like hanging yourself with your scarf from the top of the John Gerovich statue. Because chances are there's 22 blokes who want to beat you to the punch.

Showing your support for your team after an inept display is not accepting mediocrity. It's showing loyalty. Just because I will throw my weight behind the team 100% of the way doesn't mean that losses don't burn in my guts any less than anyone else. It's just that I can't help it. I'm proud, loyal, passionate and a sucker for punishment. Hence why I'm still here after 13 trying years. And will be forever more.

If anyone has a problem with supporters such as myself supporting the team through the darkest days, I challenge you to come up and punch me in the back of the head as I clap the team off from the front of block 317. Free shot. I'm just gunna get up and start clapping again. The onus is on you to knock me the f*ck out because that's all that will stop me.

[NiGHTFuRY]

Very true Bushie..
I don't see much of a difference for a footy team...
..and if they were winning consistantly and won a premiership(s).. the flip side is that the players would then have earnt the adulations...
example
Look at the fawning the slime recieved from their success in our city before they ____ed it recently.....

[bushie]

I'm going to cop it for this, but frankly my dear, I don't give a damn.

If I were at the MCG I would've clapped. It wouldn't have been a raucous standing ovation and lung bursting Freeeeeeeoooooooooo chant like the week before, nor one of those shy two finger queen claps. I would've clapped because I am a Fremantle supporter and my primary function is to support. And that doesn't mean that I only support the boys when they win in a fashion that I deem to be sufficiently dominant. That's for fairweather 'supporters' and bandwagoners. Supporting means being there even when you feel like hanging yourself with your scarf from the top of the John Gerovich statue. Because chances are there's 22 blokes who want to beat you to the punch.

Showing your support for your team after an inept display is not accepting mediocrity. It's showing loyalty. Just because I will throw my weight behind the team 100% of the way doesn't mean that losses don't burn in my guts any less than anyone else. It's just that I can't help it. I'm proud, loyal, passionate and a sucker for punishment. Hence why I'm still here after 13 trying years. And will be forever more.

If anyone has a problem with supporters such as myself supporting the team through the darkest days, I challenge you to come up and punch me in the back of the head as I clap the team off from the front of block 317. Free shot. I'm just gunna get up and start clapping again. The onus is on you to knock me the f*ck out because that's all that will stop me.



Fair dinkum kev!!

You would have clapped Sundays effort!!!!

Mate, I am too old and wise to belt young blokes in the back of the head nowdays.

But Jesus you would of copped a spray from me for clapping a pissweak and pathetic effort like that.

And I doubt, that I would have been alone in doing so!!

[Cameron_K]

I was too heartbroken to clap after the Geelong game and would have been too angry to even consider clapping after the Melbourne game.

I have never understood clapping the losing team but thats just me

[NiGHTFuRY]

BigKev, you know I love ya, and I shall respect our differences on the matter, but how could you have clapped that tripe they wanted to force feed us back on Sunday..

The upside of such a catasrophic cataclysmic conumdrum that we now find ourselves in is that self relection and open & frank discussion on this forum since that loss has been healthy for all I reckon..

Heck - I used to think the Rick Hart conspiracy theory was bullshit, but I am not so sure... Reckon he needs to go and an office and leadership cleanout is required as well as the playing list..
Harvey & his selected assistants should be given time and chance to see whether they can creat something here..

I reckon If you were there BigKev at the G Sunday last, you wouldn't have clapped...

[bigkev bleeds purple]

OK NF and Bushie I understand some of your disgust but I'm steadfast on this.

I would have clapped because I believe that when the team is down and when the people who were supporters only an hour or two beforehand have shunned the them, that is when unwavering support and loyalty is needed the most. To walk away in disgust shows no support for the team and to me shows that you are all too willing to be there for the good times and enjoy the success but when the going gets tough, you're going back into your shell (this was not aimed at any particular posters).

I wouldn't have been applauding the standard of football they had played, I would've been showing that I don't hate them despite the fact that they lost.

[bushie]

OK NF and Bushie I understand some of your disgust but I'm steadfast on this.

I would have clapped because I believe that when the team is down and when the people who were supporters only an hour or two beforehand have shunned the them, that is when unwavering support and loyalty is needed the most. To walk away in disgust shows no support for the team and to me shows that you are all too willing to be there for the good times and enjoy the success but when the going gets tough, you're going back into your shell (this was not aimed at any particular posters).

I wouldn't have been applauding the standard of football they had played, I would've been showing that I don't hate them despite the fact that they lost.


I'm glad you are not taking this personally kev, because it is not my intention. Or NF's:thumbsu:.

However, I think having an ever increasing supporter base and very big crowds, ( at least at home), shows beyond doubt, the passion and loyalty that we, as fans, have for this club.

Especially considering our shitty history!

So, to me at least, we,(the supporters) do our job week in and week out by continuing to turn up to games and buying memberships.

The players only have to look around the ground, and listen during a match, to appreciate our fierce pride and commitment to the FFC. (I sometimes genuinely wonder if they do that)!!

Now it is their turn to show the same commitment and passion that we do on a consistent basis.

Clap if you want kev....but you have already done your job by being there in the first place and cheering for them during the game.

[DockersMad]

I've got another perspective for you Bushie.

Will you clap them onto the field next game, considering their last performance and the fact that this will be the first opportunity for most of the supporters to react to the game, and if anybody does will that disturb you as well?

[bushie]

I've got another perspective for you Bushie.

Will you clap them onto the field next game, considering their last performance and the fact that this will be the first opportunity for most of the supporters to react to the game, and if anybody does will that disturb you as well?


Of course I will.

I will clap, cheer, scream and bellow.

What's done is done.....and like every game, I will go in with the full expectation that these players will leave every last drop of blood on the ground in their attempt to bring home the 4 points.

But if they put in yet another insipid performance like we have seen lately, I will simply pick up my things at the end of the game and walk away.

No abuse or spitting or crap like that. I just will not applaud second grade efforts.

I never have.

And then I will turn up for the next game and the next............

[bigkev bleeds purple]

I'm glad you are not taking this personally kev, because it is not my intention. Or NF's:thumbsu:.

Of course not mate. We have differing opinions and that's great, there wouldn't be much to talk about if everyone just constantly agreed with everyone else. Respect to you, Bushmeister :thumbsu: :) (and NiGHTFuRY for his contribution)

However, I think having an ever increasing supporter base and very big crowds, ( at least at home), shows beyond doubt, the passion and loyalty that we, as fans, have for this club.

Especially considering our shitty history!

So, to me at least, we,(the supporters) do our job week in and week out by continuing to turn up to games and buying memberships.

The players only have to look around the ground, and listen during a match, to appreciate our fierce pride and commitment to the FFC. (I sometimes genuinely wonder if they do that)!!

Now it is their turn to show the same commitment and passion that we do on a consistent basis.

Clap if you want kev....but you have already done your job by being there in the first place and cheering for them during the game.

I don't just want Fremantle to be good, I want them to be the very best and be able to shit on the rest of the competition from a great height. There's not a lot that I can do to help that effort. Like you said, to be good supporters, all we have to do is show up, pay up and scream for our team. But because I desparately want us to be a cut above the rest (I don't doubt that I'm not alone here), I choose to do everything I possibly can to go above and beyond the call of duty as a supporter. If that means turning the other cheek after putting up with a crap game like last weekend, then I'll do it gladly. If it means that I have to show the boys that I'm there for them even when they hit rock bottom, count me in.

It's just going to make our finest hour (whenever that is) sooooooooo much sweeter.

[NiGHTFuRY]

I've got another perspective for you Bushie.

Will you clap them onto the field next game, considering their last performance and the fact that this will be the first opportunity for most of the supporters to react to the game, and if anybody does will that disturb you as well?

Yeah - i will cheer & clap them onto the field every time as well. Not an issue....
I love my club. I want them to love us back.


...and yes, BigKev - I don;t think any premiership any team can win will be as sweet as when we win our maiden one...

[Magnum27]

I would never clap my team off after a loss, this game is built on wins and losses not good efforts, and winning is all that matters at the end of the day.

Each to their own i suppose though

[Contra Mundum]

I wouldn't give a standing ovation to a chair-sniffer either, but apparently many people in the liberal party thought that showing solidarity for their party and leader was more important than how they would all be tarnished.


Comrades too many cheap shots at Freo here when many clubs have been in the same situation - look at Geelong before last year. I reckon the little things that count - first step pride in the jumper. The Roos of the early 90s and that magnificent Hawthorn team led by Yabbie Jeans where almost religious in their respect for the jumper and colours.

1. There is the famous story of Arch collaring a young player who dropped his jumper on the ground saying "you don't do that to your jumper.. if you do that again you will know about it"; or

2.The famous story that Ricky Nixon tells about doing push ups on the floor of the change rooms. HE spat on the floor between sets. He said Gary Ayres slammed him into the ground and says "no one spits on this club"

You might think this stuff is over the top crap but I reckon the symbolism of it builds team unity and a concept that the team and the jumper are more important than any individual. You have every financial base covered it's the spirit you need to build in the playing group

3.The other thing is to get some South and East Freo players from the sixties and seventies and tell the young kids what Fremantle football is all about - hard tough and uncomrpomising

4. You people are part of it too - stick phat and ask to volunteer at the club!

[bushie]

Strongly agree on all points Contra.:thumbsu: And I could actually understand it!!.(Some of your SRP stuff is way over my head:)).

We need to instill a very real sense of pride in our heritage, our club and our strip.

And we need to start doing it now!!

[Contra Mundum]

Strongly agree on all points Contra.:thumbsu: And I could actually understand it!!.(Some of your SRP stuff is way over my head:)).

We need to instill a very real sense of pride in our heritage, our club and our strip.

And we need to start doing it now!!

As a Black Duck supporter I used to fear the Freo sides in the sixties and seventies. I just cannot understand how a club steeped in a culture of hardness could put in such pea hearted efforts. The Culture is there to exploit mate!!

[bushie]

As a Black Duck supporter I used to fear the Freo sides in the sixties and seventies. I just cannot understand how a club steeped in a culture of hardness could put in such pea hearted efforts. The Culture is there to exploit mate!!

I am old enough to remember the teams of the 70's at least. (whenever we were in Perth it was mandatory that we would watch Souths play). And of course, I have watched lots of archive footage of the 60's.

And as you have so correctly pointed out, those sides were tough, uncompromising and feared by all.

The one glaring problem that the FFC has had since its inception, is that it failed to forge a club out of those tradititions and values.

We are constantly castigated on these boards by many who claim that we are Fremantle in name only.....and those who claim this are indeed correct.

Players like Shaun McManus are roundly criticised for their skill level. However, he above all others, epitomises the REAL spirit of Fremantle football with his passion for the club, his unwavering spirit in the face of debilitating injury and his endless courage and commitment to the FFC. It is also no secret that he is a Fremantle boy!

That is why he is so loved and respected!!

We have to turn this club upside down and begin again with a culture that is Fremantle and nothing but Fremantle.

[raffrox]

Too many people associated with the club are happy with mediocrity.
The Chairman.
The CEO.
The players.
The fans.

I have to admit that for some reason I usually disagree with you dom but thats two threads in a row where you are right on the money.

[raffrox]

I love good quality Mezcal:thumbsu:

But no, I am not tripping, I just strongly believe that the current supporter reaction mirrors our current performance on the field..

We do accept second best, and until we stop that, it is nigh on impossible to expect the players mind sets to change.

They need to feel our pain, embarrassment and disgust when we lose.....not some misguided loyalty that drives some to acknowledge that .....hey we gave it our best shot!

It isn't our best shot.....giving it your best shot means that you win a shit load more times than this club does!!

If one of my employees does a great job for 75% of the time, do I praise him for it??

No! He either lifts his game or he is out on his arse very quickly.

A professional football side is no different IMO.
*gives standing ovation*

Thats what I'm talking about.:thumbsu:

[DockersMad]

I am old enough to remember the teams of the 70's at least. (whenever we were in Perth it was mandatory that we would watch Souths play). And of course, I have watched lots of archive footage of the 60's.

And as you have so correctly pointed out, those sides were tough, uncompromising and feared by all.

The one glaring problem that the FFC has had since its inception, is that it failed to forge a club out of those tradititions and values.

We are constantly castigated on these boards by many who claim that we are Fremantle in name only.....and those who claim this are indeed correct.

Players like Shaun McManus are roundly criticised for their skill level. However, he above all others, epitomises the REAL spirit of Fremantle football with his passion for the club, his unwavering spirit in the face of debilitating injury and his endless courage and commitment to the FFC. It is also no secret that he is a Fremantle boy!

That is why he is so loved and respected!!

We have to turn this club upside down and begin again with a culture that is Fremantle and nothing but Fremantle.

This is an interesting point, and one which I think contrasts us with Port Adelaide, another 2nd club in a two-team town.

Fremantle's historical base from which we wish to forge our history and culture is derived from two teams who spent their days beating the living suitcase out of each other. Can a solid foundation be born from hate?

The other matter which Port might have some experience with is the fact that the first team formed takes away a significant part of the history. Just think of the former players for South and East Fremantle who should be associated with our club, working in the background to instill a strong footballing tradition, who are now tied up with West Coast.

[bushie]

This is an interesting point, and one which I think contrasts us with Port Adelaide, another 2nd club in a two-team town.

Fremantle's historical base from which we wish to forge our history and culture is derived from two teams who spent their days beating the living suitcase out of each other. Can a solid foundation be born from hate?

The other matter which Port might have some experience with is the fact that the first team formed takes away a significant part of the history. Just think of the former players for South and East Fremantle who should be associated with our club, working in the background to instill a strong footballing tradition, who are now tied up with West Coast.


Point taken DM.

However, it should not be the hatred involved in this process, but the level of unspoken mutual respect between the teams and the pride that each side had/has in its club and its strip.

I am also sure that there are many, many ex-players, who have no affiliation with the WCE, who would love to become more closely associated with the club.

And that is the point of Contra's post.

We have failed to utilise, and capitalise upon, that untapped pool of passion and history that is available to us.

IMO, that has been one of main problems since our inception.

We have not been FREMANTLE.

We have only been a footy club with Fremantle in its name.