blake vs mumford vs west

[kinggaz29]

Now that otto is back next game thank f**k who gets the 2nd spot. Blake been really shaky imo and mumford looks and moves well and west is improving each week.
They most likely go with blakey but love too see him dropped 4 a week or 2 just to sharpen him up a fraction. thoughts

[Strong hands Magee]

West and Mummy are def both more agile, but I still think Blakey is still the man for the job. He has had a couple of off weeks and is prob down on confidence, so i think this break will be good for him.

My concern with West is he doesnt appear tall enough, seems more of a key posy player.

Either way, competition is a good thing. In a few years, it might be a case of Blake vs West vs Mummy vs Dawson Simpson.

[forrrestGump]

West and Mummy are def both more agile, but I still think Blakey is still the man for the job. He has had a couple of off weeks and is prob down on confidence, so i think this break will be good for him.

My concern with West is he doesnt appear tall enough, seems more of a key posy player.

Either way, competition is a good thing. In a few years, it might be a case of Blake vs West vs Mummy vs Dawson Simpson.

west's lack of height has exposed him in games, tries hard, but maybe he is better off as CHF type

mummy is coming up quickly, and will press blake sooner rather than latter, blake will be under the torch when ottens gets back, as he will be against a second ruckman, and the expectations should grow, we need a contest and the ball to advantage

the mids cannot rove to him

with ottens there seems to be instinctive actions by the mids, not the case with otto, mummy seems to have the same ability

west could be used as a tall utility, ie back or forward,

[JUBJUB]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1178/8531hd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[rizzo]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1178/8531hd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

LOL love it.

Anyway ill reiterate my point ive said in many threads this year. West will overtake Blake by the end of the year.

[Record Cats]

Watching the game on Saturday it was clear that Mumford had more of an impact than Blake in the ruck. He actually was hitting it to out onballers where as Blake seemed to hit it to a Lions player everytime.

Mumford has a great leap and seems to time it very well. To me he was better against Sandilands than what Blake was as well.

He also has better skills than Blake. West does seem a bit small for a ruckman.

I would love to see Mumford keep going when Otto comes back as a think he will continue to improve, which wont be good for Blake as I think he is already at the same level as him...

In a nutshell.....I really don't think Blake has much improvement left in him and I think he will be just an average ruckman for the rest of his career.

[candiehappy]

LOL love it.

Anyway ill reiterate my point ive said in many threads this year. West will overtake Blake by the end of the year.

More tears cme finals time? I suspect Blake will hold his spot this year, but next year might be a challenge.

[dtrainium]

I think Blake will relish the opportunity to be the 2nd ruckman in the side rather than being relied upon as the first choice. It's a lot of pressure, especially for a bloke who was arguably our third choice ruckman last season. That way he should compete against the oppositions second choice ruck more often, and will possibly have more energy around the ground. He does seem like the sort of guy who does put a lot of pressure on himself, and struggles when he does.

[CatmanForever]

I am not saying that stats are the be all and end all but I find this interesting

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2008&rt=LA&st=HO

Hitout Rankings

1. Aaron Sandilands - averages 15 disposals, 3 marks, 31 hitouts per game this year
2. Dean Cox - averages 22 disposals, 6 marks, 25 hitouts per game this year
3. Brendon Lade - averages 11 disposals, 5 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
4. Mark Blake - averages 10 disposals, 3 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
5. Darren Jolly - averages 11 disposals, 4 marks, 22 hitouts per game this year



further:

4. Blake averages 23 hitouts per game
30. Mumford averages 7.5 hitouts per game
34 West averages 5 hitouts per game

make of this what you will. But for me Blakeys spot is safe

[The Pivotonian]

I am not saying that stats are the be all and end all but I find this interesting

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2008&rt=LA&st=HO

Hitout Rankings

1. Aaron Sandilands - averages 15 disposals, 3 marks, 31 hitouts per game this year
2. Dean Cox - averages 22 disposals, 6 marks, 25 hitouts per game this year
3. Brendon Lade - averages 11 disposals, 5 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
4. Mark Blake - averages 10 disposals, 3 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
5. Darren Jolly - averages 11 disposals, 4 marks, 22 hitouts per game this year



further:

4. Blake averages 23 hitouts per game
30. Mumford averages 7.5 hitouts per game
34 West averages 5 hitouts per game

make of this what you will. But for me Blakeys spot is safe

CatmanForever, I'm a Blake fan as you'd know, but surely we'd need to take those stats in relation to time spent on the ground.

I'm tipping Blake has seen more time on the ground than either West or Mumford.

I may just have taken Devil's Advocate too far...

[Record Cats]

I am not saying that stats are the be all and end all but I find this interesting

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2008&rt=LA&st=HO

Hitout Rankings

1. Aaron Sandilands - averages 15 disposals, 3 marks, 31 hitouts per game this year
2. Dean Cox - averages 22 disposals, 6 marks, 25 hitouts per game this year
3. Brendon Lade - averages 11 disposals, 5 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
4. Mark Blake - averages 10 disposals, 3 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
5. Darren Jolly - averages 11 disposals, 4 marks, 22 hitouts per game this year



further:

4. Blake averages 23 hitouts per game
30. Mumford averages 7.5 hitouts per game
34 West averages 5 hitouts per game

make of this what you will. But for me Blakeys spot is safe

On Saturday: - Blake (67% game time, 28 hitouts with 3 to advantage)
- Mumford (43% game time, 10 hitouts with 4 to advantage)

I hate to say it......but Blake (regardless of hitouts for the year) is struggling big time and I think the fact that a rookie in his second game is having more influence than him shows that he shouldn't be our 2nd ruckman when Otto comes back.

The way Mumford jumps all over the opposition ruckmen and actually uses some touch when tapping is so much more beneficial than Blake just slapping it where ever....usually to the opposition.

Leave Mumford in.....he could very well be a star in the making! Unfortunately......Blake never will be.

[darren forssman]

West and Mummy are def both more agile, but I still think Blakey is still the man for the job. He has had a couple of off weeks and is prob down on confidence, so i think this break will be good for him.

My concern with West is he doesnt appear tall enough, seems more of a key posy player.

Either way, competition is a good thing. In a few years, it might be a case of Blake vs West vs Mummy vs Dawson Simpson.

west 198cm, 102kg
mumford 200cm, 102kg
blake 199cm, 100kg

is there any actual verification of their legit height and weight, on saturday mumford was dwarfed by blake height wise. blake looked to have at least 5-10cm on him, but could have been fat screen tv.

west, based on these figures is not notably shorter that he cant ruck.

[turbo0010]

Yeah i've liked mumford, much more agile, looks to have more potential.

You have to remember also with the hitouts stats, that mumford's first game was against sandilands as well. I'm sure they both struggled to get many in that game.

[turbo0010]

west 198cm, 202kg
mumford 200cm, 202kg
blake 199cm, 100kg

is there any actual verification of their legit height and weight, on saturday mumford was dwarfed by blake height wise. blake looked to have at least 5-10cm on him, but could have been fat screen tv.

west, based on these figures is not notably shorter that he cant ruck.

wow, west and mumford are pretty fat. :D

[TheYid]

Blake has struggled but the other two look shaky a lot of the time. They both need more time in the twos.

With Ottens back, the whole team will function better, especially in the ruck, and Blake will also lift- he will get back to the form he had last year when he was hitting to advantage a lot better.

Keep Blake there, let him find his game again.

[LifeSpan-Void]

Edit: double post

[LifeSpan-Void]

west 198cm, 102kg
mumford 200cm, 102kg
blake 199cm, 100kg

is there any actual verification of their legit height and weight, on saturday mumford was dwarfed by blake height wise. blake looked to have at least 5-10cm on him, but could have been fat screen tv.

west, based on these figures is not notably shorter that he cant ruck.

Updated stats for 2008:
West 198cm/103kg
Blake 200cm/101kg
Mumford 200cm/102kg
Ottens 202cm/108kg
Simpson 206cm/104kg

[highflyingcat]

[quote=My concern with West is he doesnt appear tall enough, seems more of a key posy player.

quote]

100% - he could be another tall option up back; seems he is a few cms too short to effectively compete with guys who are at the elite level

[The Sim Dog]

I don't think West's height is a huge issue. He has a very good leap which will help. Kruezer is 199cm. Jeff White and Dean Brogan have had little trouble in the ruck 198cm. So long as the 198 is accurate. Sometimes those sorts of figures can be inflated for sports people to help them get drafted (has happened badly in Basketball, inaccuracies by 6-8cm). If he's actually closer to 196 for example then it can start be be a problem.

[Asty]

West is 20yo he has a bit of time left before we write him off.

[djlowz]

1. Ottens
2. Mumford
3. West
4. Blake

That's how I see it.

[PoidaCat]

Obsessed with stats...also misleading...


Since we are talking about stats..

Anyone have last years Preliminary Final Stats? :confused:

[winty]

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/1178/8531hd9.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

My thoughts exactly. Here we are, fresh off a premiership and 26 wins in our last 27 games, and still people aren't happy. FFS, get off our players' backs and enjoy the ride.

[faffies]

Blake has struggled but the other two look shaky a lot of the time. They both need more time in the twos.

With Ottens back, the whole team will function better, especially in the ruck, and Blake will also lift- he will get back to the form he had last year when he was hitting to advantage a lot better.

Keep Blake there, let him find his game again.

totally agree, i cant wait to see ottens back in. got a feeling with ottens we're really going to fire again, not us much pressure on blake and he can play a solid support role

[The Pivotonian]

Maybe we should turn this thread on it's head and look at it this way...

How many other clubs are in the position of having 3 guys fighting for the number 2 ruck position and a monster waiting in the wings gaining experience?

I think both West and Mumford move well enough to 'rest' in the forward line and hopefully they'll start looking to add this extra string to their bows.

All in all, I think having all three fighting for the second spot when Ottens returns is a good thing

[kinggaz29]

My thoughts exactly. Here we are, fresh off a premiership and 26 wins in our last 27 games, and still people aren't happy. FFS, get off our players' backs and enjoy the ride.
mate this isnt about bein not happy its purely who are the selectors gonna go with next week. Its a great problem to have imo.
The three seem pretty equal atm and they fighting for one spot... its not as clear cut as you may think....

[CatmanForever]

On Saturday: - Blake (67% game time, 28 hitouts with 3 to advantage)
- Mumford (43% game time, 10 hitouts with 4 to advantage)

show me a credible source for those stats because I have been watching the game again and Blakey has had way more than 3 hit outs to advantage. So I must just assume you are making that up. :rolleyes:

[randyzany]

My thoughts exactly. Here we are, fresh off a premiership and 26 wins in our last 27 games, and still people aren't happy. FFS, get off our players' backs and enjoy the ride.

I won't get off his back. Blake is our club's Achilles heel, he could well cost us a Premiership if he dishes up the same weak efforts of the last 2 games in a Grand Final. :thumbsd: :thumbsd: :thumbsd:

[forrrestGump]

Obsessed with stats...also misleading...


Since we are talking about stats..

Anyone have last years Preliminary Final Stats? :confused:

i think that ottens showed what a star is

blake was blake, blake has never won a game for the cats, and when are we to expect him to fire, when he is 28, and most ruckmen can't move

he needs to be accountable, and the moment he is far from it

the other monster in simpson needs to improve as well, as the club has the mummy coming through




go long on the mummy, bog in round 18

[Rosella]

go long on the mummy, bog in round 18

If Egan's back by then, he probably won't be playing.

[cozdawg#09]

I am not saying that stats are the be all and end all but I find this interesting

http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_player_rankings?year=2008&rt=LA&st=HO

Hitout Rankings

1. Aaron Sandilands - averages 15 disposals, 3 marks, 31 hitouts per game this year
2. Dean Cox - averages 22 disposals, 6 marks, 25 hitouts per game this year
3. Brendon Lade - averages 11 disposals, 5 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
4. Mark Blake - averages 10 disposals, 3 marks, 23 hitouts per game this year
5. Darren Jolly - averages 11 disposals, 4 marks, 22 hitouts per game this year



further:

4. Blake averages 23 hitouts per game
30. Mumford averages 7.5 hitouts per game
34 West averages 5 hitouts per game

make of this what you will. But for me Blakeys spot is safe

This point has been made time and time again but what you don't realise is that Blake gets a LOT more time on the ground than both Mumford and West. A more accurate statistic would be TOG vs hitouts.

[CatmanForever]

yeah but until Otto comes back he is our No 1 ruckman so he should get more time

[The rabbi]

LOL love it.

Anyway ill reiterate my point ive said in many threads this year. West will overtake Blake by the end of the year.

I like West Too Riz. He moves well and he looks nice and balanced when he kicks the footy. But could West play KKP in the future or would he just sit in the forward line (or defence) while resting from ruck duties?

I ask that question because he moves and kicks the ball competently.

[dadonis]

not a blake fan at all, mainly in light of the king situation, so i'm a bit biased...

having said that, my thoughts run like so:

* blake's currently the best of the back up ruckmen, and should hold second spot after otto - on current ability.

- having said that, he's had 3 seasons in the big show now (including most all of last year), and doesn't seem to be improving nearly enough to ever be good enough to take over first ruck duties, at the standard we need to stay premier grade. he's naturally uncoordinated, and no amount of size, training and conditioning are really going to overcome this. not to mention the way he drops his head when being beaten and gives in, ala vs sandilands.

- this remains the driving factor in my disappointment in the club for moving on a champion and long standing servant of the club in favour of this kid, who never looked worthy of the hopes they were placing on his long term ability to uphold our ruck division

+ still, he's had to move from second/third string behind our long term men mountains this season and has served adequately in the short term to plug the gap left without both for the whole season so far. the other kids are way too far behind, and we probably would have needed mooney back in ruck, without blake, and that would have been a real step back

* liked west in the vfl till now, and was happy to see him get a run. looked ok around the ground, but was slaughtered in the ruck. a very long way to go, and his size will always be a massive handicap to overcome. still, he's very young, and hopefully a few more years in the 2s will lift him to the big show..!

* mumford - never heard of the kid till this year, and in 2 games is already looking like our second ruckman

- was smashed in the freo matchup, but it was his first game, and i don't even remember him getting much prior vfl exposure, so that was to be expected.

+ game 2 he came out and people have already posted his relative match stats. what impressed me more was his natural ability around the ground. not only was he taking uncontested marks and laying off well, but he was moving into ruck and marking contests and having a solid impact every time! definitely looked much more seasoned than a second gamer...got big hopes for mummy..!

* and yeah - the young monster's waiting in the wings! finally starting to relax a little about our longer term ruck prospects..!!:thumbsu: :)

[d_henderson1810]

I think that there are other problems with Blake. I remember watching "Geelong v Sydney" a few weeks ago, and Robert Walls noted that Cameron Mooney was struggling and should be thrown into the ruck. I thought that that wasn't a bad idea, except for one thing... who would play at centre-half-forward? I mean, if Ottens was in the ruck, they could do this because Mooney can play ruck, and Ottens can play up forward. The problem in this game was that putting Mooney in the ruck is that you either leave a hole at CHF, or throw Blake up there. Blake has shown that he can' t play up forward, or any other position for that matter.

Blake not only struggles in the ruck, but also doesn't kick enough goals, and doesn't pick up enough possessions around the ground. EVery other ruckman can pick up a few possessions, and many can play up forward or back (including Ottens) but Blake can do none of these things. He is an Achilles heel, and we have struggled to beat teams because we have been beaten in hitouts.

I don't want to sound mean, but Mark Blake is not up to it. He has never got a B.O.G., and can't do the basics or show the toughness or urgency needed by a No. 1 ruckman. He had seven weeks, in Otten's absence, to finally step up and take the main ruck spot by the throat. This was a perfect chance to tell the club "you made a mistake not picking me in the Grand Final" by dominating in the ruck and proving to be not only better than Steven King, but also could match it with Ottens too. But he has failed to perform. He has no one else to blame but himself.

It's a shame too. If Blake could dominate in the ruck, we can then use Ottens up forward more often, and stretch most opposition defences (including Hawthorn), but Ottens needs to ruck, so we don't have the luxury anymore.

Untimately, I would give Blake the rest of the year, and if Mumford comes on, but Blake doesn't, then go with Ottens and Mumford for 2009.

The question I ask is- would Blake get a game at another club? or would he even have been picked by us if his dad didn't play for the club? Proof that , despite people trying to derail father-son because of our success with it (Ablett, Scarlett, Hawkins), that it can also be a curse (Blake).

[WE Are Geelong]

Blake is a no. 2 ruckman playing 7 weeks on end in the No. 1 role. King wasnt offloaded from the club last year as the No 1 ruckman and as is evident from his recent back spasm injury...isnt physically capable of taking on the number 1 role anymore. This is clearly in Blake's favour.

Geelong did the right thing keeping Blake as sad as it was to see Kingy have to leave.

When Blake returns to his proper role as No. 2 ruckmen in the coming weeks I think this will be the time to comment about how he is going as a player. The commentary that Blake cant play etc etc...is just people with nothing better to do with their time who dont understand basic elements of respective match ups and time spent on a football ground dependent on your abilities.

I am sure every side would love to have 2-3 Brad Ottens' on their list too...:thumbsu:

[sarah.13]

Given that the backup Blake has had this year,( a 20 yr old who has played 5 games and a Rookie with 2 games ) he has toiled manfully.
Let's not forget that Ottens is the main man and Blake is the backup!!

[scottie pippen]

blake is a good back up ruckman nothing more nothing less

[darren forssman]

blake is a good back up ruckman nothing more nothing less

scottie, you were a good foil to mj.

pity about those knees towards the end of your career!!!

[djlowz]

blake is a good back up ruckman nothing more nothing less

Good for a double double every game Scottie. You may not have had the spotlight, but you had consistency.

I love you.

[darren forssman]

Good for a double double every game Scottie. You may not have had the spotlight, but you had consistency.

I love you.

scottie was more a 20ppg, 7rpg, 6apg and 2spg.