Team for the rest of the season

[Schmick]

Assuming most of the players at the club are injury free, What would you like the team to look like for the rest of the year?

I'd like us to pick a team with players that look to have a bright future, aswell as players that need to be in the team so that we can fast track their develepment, but at the same time still have a few senior players in the same part of the ground to guide them and help them out.

Definately think there's no point in putting our very best team out there for the rest of the season because it's just making us look better short term but making us shitter long term.

Having said that, i'd want us to field a side that looks like this for the rest of the season:

B: Slattery Michael Pears
HB: Myers Fletcher Dempsey
C: Riemers Hocking Winderlich
HF: Lonergan Gumbleton Lucas
F: Neagle Lloyd Jetta
Foll: Ryder McVeigh Houli
INT: Hille Lovett Hislop Watson

[dons man]

Hocking is out indefinatley with a groin issue so probably won't see him till late in the season, Dempsey out for a while as well. I'm not jumping off Monfries yet... he needs to be played predominately as a midfielder and i think hes more than capable. No Stanton? you can't seriously believe hes no good - still just turned 22 and gets the oppositions best stopper every week..he'll work it out. It's amazing how many supporters on here continually give him stick week in week out, even when he does play well people find some reason to jump on his back...get real.

[Longy413]

Best available on form and fitness.
Simple as that.

Peverill aside.

[Ryder Is God]

Best available on form and fitness.
Simple as that.

Peverill aside.

Yep.

[Schmick]

Hocking is out indefinatley with a groin issue so probably won't see him till late in the season, Dempsey out for a while as well. I'm not jumping off Monfries yet... he needs to be played predominately as a midfielder and i think hes more than capable. No Stanton? you can't seriously believe hes no good - still just turned 22 and gets the oppositions best stopper every week..he'll work it out. It's amazing how many supporters on here continually give him stick week in week out, even when he does play well people find some reason to jump on his back...get real.
Hocking is supposed to return around Rd 15, and Dempey should be back around the same time. I didn't pick my team on who's available for Rd 8, I picked the team based on what I wanted it to look like during the late part of the season when some of those players I chose come back.

As for Stanton, i think he should be played in the VFL for a while so he can work on his disposal in an enviroment where there's alot less pressure aswell allowing him to develop the defensive side of his game. He could be an amazing player if he improved in these two areas, which is why he should be sent back to Bendigo so he can work on them.

[The_Young_Gun]

B: Slattery Michael Pears
HB: Myers Fletcher Dempsey
C: Riemers Hocking Winderlich
HF: Lonergan Gumbleton Lucas
F: Neagle Lloyd Jetta
Foll: Ryder McVeigh Houli
INT: Hille Lovett Hislop Watson

Right On....

Unless you missed him, Stanton isn't in your team. Which is :thumbsu::thumbsu:.

[forever green]

Right On....

Unless you missed him, Stanton isn't in your team. Which is :thumbsu::thumbsu:.
stanton out and the gun watson out then i'm happy

[retroparty]

I know people want to see Essendon play the kids so they get experience. I think lots of posters of bigfooty are to obsessed with playing the kids. All of our 1st or 2nd year players have a good 10 years of footy ahead of them. We do have players which are capable of playing better than the kids and they don't have 10 years left. I think we need to get as much out of these players we can possibly get. The kids are not going to get the job done. They are too inexperienced. We don't want to turn into Carlton. it is god to play some kids but we need the right balance.

Backline:Fletcher, Michael, Nash
Half Backs:Ramanauskas, Ryder, Dempsey
Centre: Dyson, Watson, Stanton
Half Forwards: Lovett, Lucas, Welsh
Forwards: Davey, Lloyd, Reimers
Rucks: Hille, McVeigh, Winderlich

Bench: Lonergan, McPhee, Houli, Gumbleton

Emergencies: Myers, Monfries, Slattery/Jetta/Laycock

But of course we have heaps of injuries so the kids are gonna get heaps of game time anyway. Davey aint gonna play for the rest of the season and we have many others which won't make the full journey.

[The_Young_Gun]

I think its final....

Stanton should be a permanent Wingman, theres no doubt about it....

He hates to stick on his man, he hates contests and loves to run away from the ball.

"Dear Knighta, Please never, ever, chuck Stanton into the middle again!!! either that or chuck him in the 2's":D

[Big Blow Hard]

Hille on the Pine. Are you completely nuts? He is one of the best ruckman in the league, certainly one of the hardest working. NatRat will play in the side more than he misses. He is only a victim of circumstance at the moment. Winderlich has shown nothing IMO.

[Schmick]

Hille on the Pine. Are you completely nuts? He is one of the best ruckman in the league, certainly one of the hardest working. NatRat will play in the side more than he misses. He is only a victim of circumstance at the moment. Winderlich has shown nothing IMO.
If Ryder is given a good run in the ruck for the rest of the season, he'd be a much better all round ruckman than Hille. Hille would be playing on about 75% gametime sharing the ruck duties with Ryder aswell as rotating up forward.

NLM is ok, would just rather a youngster such as Pears to play ahead of him.

I thought Winderlich has been ok this season, has provides great run and dash but just hasn't found as much of the pill, and his skills are better than most of the other d**heads in the team.
Winderlich>Stanton>Dyson

[Big Blow Hard]

If Ryder is given a good run in the ruck for the rest of the season, he'd be a much better all round ruckman than Hille. Hille would be playing on about 75% gametime sharing the ruck duties with Ryder aswell as rotating up forward.

NLM is ok, would just rather a youngster such as Pears to play ahead of him.

I thought Winderlich has been ok this season, has provides great run and dash but just hasn't found as much of the pill, and his skills are better than most of the other d**heads in the team.
Winderlich>Stanton>Dyson

Agree to disagree there. I don't mind Ryder rucking a bit, but he should never be our number 1 ruck. He should be our CHB, perhaps taking some of the boundry throw ins. I would like to see Bellchambers get a couple of games to see what we have to work with there.

[Schmick]

Agree to disagree there. I don't mind Ryder rucking a bit, but he should never be our number 1 ruck. He should be our CHB, perhaps taking some of the boundry throw ins. I would like to see Bellchambers get a couple of games to see what we have to work with there.
Ryder is being wasted at CHB, sure he'd doing a great job short term, but he has so much potential to be so much better than he is now if he played in the ruck. Hille is having an outstanding season, but im sure it wouldn't be a problem sharing the ruck 50-50 aswell as those 2 rotating up forward.

I say we just leave on of Johns or Pears down back for the rest of the season with Fletch and Mal and allow Pears/Johns to take the postion.

[BomberAce7]

B - Pears, Michael, Dempsey.
HB - Reimers, Fletcher, Hislop
C - Ramanauskas, Houli, Lonergan.
HF - Jetta, Lucas, Lovett
F - Hille, Lloyd, Johnson.
Rucks - Ryder, Winderlich, McVeigh.
Interchange - Neagle, McPhee, Myers, Daniher.

[Slattery_20]

ANYONE

WHO

HAS

A

CRACK

Knights' needs to set some standards here. There are guys who are not putting in their best effort, who don't enjoy making physical contact, this needs to change. If you can't win the game, bruise the f*ckers.

[Big Blow Hard]

Ryder is being wasted at CHB, sure he'd doing a great job short term, but he has so much potential to be so much better than he is now if he played in the ruck. Hille is having an outstanding season, but im sure it wouldn't be a problem sharing the ruck 50-50 aswell as those 2 rotating up forward.

I say we just leave on of Johns or Pears down back for the rest of the season with Fletch and Mal and allow Pears/Johns to take the postion.

I'd be ok with it that way. I think Ryder will need for the rest of the year to be played where he is most needed, be it forward, ruck or back. But BOTH of them need to bo on the ground as much as possible.

[donsman4eva]

Ive noticed that no one has mentioned Welsh in their prefered teams for this year (except Retroparty). What has he done wrong? Same goes with McPhee. Honestly, how are the young guys going to learn to have a crack when the guys that actually do have a crack are left out? Thats is implying that to get in the team is be under 25 and reasonable skills.

Seriously, its all well and good to play kids, but they have to be playing alongside experienced players to gain any beneit from it.

[The_Young_Gun]

hahaha.... I always forget to put Welsh in when I select a team. I don't know why?

[Darealrath]

Best available on form and fitness.
Simple as that.

Peverill aside.

Completely agree.

Not including vets who are in our best 22 is counterproductive to the development of the young blokes. Need some good leaders on the field to help them out or the young blokes will learn bad habits and lose confidence.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Best available bar maybe 1 or two who are close.

Must get games into Hislop, Lonergan and Myers.

No Dyson and Monfries for me and Nash is hanging on be a thread.

[SirJimi05]

It is pretty simple really. Pick the best 22 possible, taking form and fitness into account.

[Willow76]

B Rama Fletcher Michael
HB Dempsey Ryder Mcphee
C Jetta Watson houli
HF Gumbelton Lucas Winderlich
F Lovett Lloyd Neagle
R Hille McVeigh Lonergan
B Stanton Laycock Hocking Reimers
Em Hislop Myers Monfries Welsh

Bit stiff on Welsh I know but had trouble getting him in

[BomberAce7]

Ive noticed that no one has mentioned Welsh in their prefered teams for this year (except Retroparty). What has he done wrong? Same goes with McPhee. Honestly, how are the young guys going to learn to have a crack when the guys that actually do have a crack are left out? Thats is implying that to get in the team is be under 25 and reasonable skills.

Seriously, its all well and good to play kids, but they have to be playing alongside experienced players to gain any beneit from it.

He's been left out cos he's no good.

[rickydysonforbl]

Best team we can field this year when everyone except davey comes back from injury
B Pears Fletcher Welsh
HB Dempsey Ryder Mcphee
C Jetta Watson Houli
HF Lovett Lucas Neagle
F Gumbleton Lloyd Monfries
R Hille Mcveigh Dyson
IC Reimers Stanton Winderlich Laycock
Worth a game sporadically: Johns, Lonergan, Michael, Myers, Hocking, Nash
Gotta go: Slattery, Rama, JJ, NLM, Pev

[donsman4eva]

He's been left out cos he's no good.
Everyone to their own, But I'd say AA selection and top 5 B&F finishes speak for themselves :cool:

[Schmick]

Ive noticed that no one has mentioned Welsh in their prefered teams for this year (except Retroparty). What has he done wrong? Same goes with McPhee. Honestly, how are the young guys going to learn to have a crack when the guys that actually do have a crack are left out? Thats is implying that to get in the team is be under 25 and reasonable skills.

Seriously, its all well and good to play kids, but they have to be playing alongside experienced players to gain any beneit from it.
Forgot about Welsh, would be swapped around for Slattery in the back pocket. Great player :thumbsu:

McPhee works very hard, but that's about it, his decision making and disposal is rubbish and he doesn't move that ball on quick enough, plus their are others in the position he plays that could do a better job and are worth playing ahead of him.

I don't see a future at the Essendon FC to tell you the truth, his negatives are supposed to be the strength of our gameplan and with him in the team he brings us down as a team.

[Jonesy1987]

FB: Rama, Michael, Fletcher
HB: Myers, Pears, Houli
C: Winderlich, Watson, Stanton
HF Mcphee, Lucas, Welsh
FF: Jetta, Lloyd, Lovett
R: Hille, Mcveigh, Hislop
IC: Ryder, Lonergan, Neagle, Reimers

Emer: JJ/Slattery/Dyson/Nash/Monfries/Johns

[Longy413]

If Ryder is given a good run in the ruck for the rest of the season, he'd be a much better all round ruckman than Hille. Hille would be playing on about 75% gametime sharing the ruck duties with Ryder aswell as rotating up forward.

Hille is the second best ruckman in the league at the moment.
It disgusts me that he's not in the Victorian team, but having Sheeds on the selection committee probably went against him.

Hille is still young himself and has plenty of football ahead of him.

If Hille makes the improvement he made from last year to this year in 2009, we have a major weapon on our hands.

David Hille still has some developing to do and his form this year has been outstanding. We want him rucking and developing as much as possible.

Ryder is a natural talent, he'll develop purely because he's a freak. Hille needs experience, leave him in the middle.

[Sigmund]

Best team we can field this year when everyone except davey comes back from injury
B Pears Fletcher Welsh
HB Dempsey Ryder Mcphee
C Jetta Watson Houli
HF Lovett Lucas Neagle
F Gumbleton Lloyd Monfries
R Hille Mcveigh Dyson
IC Reimers Stanton Winderlich Laycock
Worth a game sporadically: Johns, Lonergan, Michael, Myers, Hocking, Nash
Gotta go: Slattery, Rama, JJ, NLM, Pev

I personally would reverse these 2. Dyson is only ever going to be an OK footballer. Myers could be a very very good player for us. Can't see Ricky ever being this. It would be negligent of the club to only play Myers sporadically when we are so desperate for class.

[FandangoDingo]

Hille is the second best ruckman in the league at the moment.
It disgusts me that he's not in the Victorian team, but having Sheeds on the selection committee probably went against him.

Hille is still young himself and has plenty of football ahead of him.

If Hille makes the improvement he made from last year to this year in 2009, we have a major weapon on our hands.

David Hille still has some developing to do and his form this year has been outstanding. We want him rucking and developing as much as possible.

Ryder is a natural talent, he'll develop purely because he's a freak. Hille needs experience, leave him in the middle.

I agree. He is probably our most improved this year. I'll admit, i thought Laycock would assume the No. 1 ruck mantle by the middle of this season, however Laycock's going nowhere quickly (except backwards) and Hille has shown a remarkable turnaround. I remember how lazy and disinterested he looked against Richmond in Round 21 last year. He looks to be a new player out there this year, with a great attitude too. Hats off to him and I hope he can keep it up! :thumbsu:

[The_Young_Gun]

Hocking would be perfect for us now..

He's an indurance player and has the likes of McVeigh, I can't wait for the big H to come back off the injury list and I hope he has a great (Half) Season ahead.

[fishguts]

I just pray to god we don't go down the carlton road and give kids games because of their age. I envision a team we're the 22 best and most deserving players get a game ahead of the sentimental favourites and youngsters.

[bombersno1]

B: Welsh Michael Pears
HB: Atkinson Fletcher Dempsey
C: Riemers Monfries Myers
HF: Daniher Gumbleton Lucas
F: Neagle Lloyd Jetta
Foll: Ryder McVeigh Houli
INT: Hille Stanton Hislop Watson

[Big Blow Hard]

B: Welsh Michael Pears
HB: Atkinson Fletcher Dempsey
C: Riemers Monfries Myers
HF: Daniher Gumbleton Lucas
F: Neagle Lloyd Jetta
Foll: Ryder McVeigh Houli
INT: Hille Stanton Hislop Watson

:eek: NO WAY! Our Best Ruckman and Watso on the bench. Did you not read any of Gerard Healys article. They are the best Ruck to possesion combination in the league. And don't give me the Watsons wasteful crap.:rolleyes:

[bombersno1]

:eek: NO WAY! Our Best Ruckman and Watso on the bench. Did you not read any of Gerard Healys article. They are the best Ruck to possesion combination in the league. And don't give me the Watsons wasteful crap.:rolleyes:

I want to trial a few guys in his position thats all, Watson will play plenty of gametime anyway, and I want to trial Ryder in the ruck as much as possible to see if he can make it as a ruckman or whether he'll be a permanant CHB thats all. Nothing against Watson whatsoever, I actually rate him, although I do see more potential in Hocking but thats another point, no reason why both should not be in the 22.

[Schmick]

:eek: NO WAY! Our Best Ruckman and Watso on the bench. Did you not read any of Gerard Healys article. They are the best Ruck to possesion combination in the league. And don't give me the Watsons wasteful crap.:rolleyes:
Watson will play his best footy playing off the bench. We need to keep him fresh so he can run both ways, and when he's fresh he will be able to get even more of the ball. I remember when he used to play about 60% gametime for a few games last year and he got about the same amount of disposals as when he played around 80%, all because he was fresh. Watson is a superb player, but would be even better and more effective if played off the bench.

With Ryder, I think we should give him as much gametime in the ruck as possible as he had an enormous amount of talent to be an A grade ruckman with his great speed & agility, great tap work, massive leap, fantastic skills, great overhead, and is great with his 2nd/3rd efforts. If we want him to become an elite ruckman, we need to stop wasting his talent in the backline and play him in the ruck where he will be most damaging and play his best football.

[Daytripper]

B: Welsh Michael Pears
HB: Atkinson Fletcher Dempsey
C: Riemers Monfries Myers
HF: Daniher Gumbleton Lucas
F: Neagle Lloyd Jetta
Foll: Ryder McVeigh Houli
INT: Hille Stanton Hislop Watson

Is this the best Bendigo side or something ?

Lonergan ?
McPhee ?
Lovett ?
Lovett-Murray even ?

Also how slow is that forward line. If the ball goes to ground we would be absoloutly F**ked.
Back line is treacle like too with the exception of Dempsey too.

[Schmick]

McPhee's a truck, the only reason he's getting a game ATM is because Gumby and Lucas are out, but once they come their will be no room on the flanks for him, we've got much better options than him in this department.

[Daytripper]

McPhee's a truck, the only reason he's getting a game ATM is because Gumby and Lucas are out, but once they come their will be no room on the flanks for him, we've got much better options than him in this department.

Who ?

[Big Blow Hard]

McPhee's a truck, the only reason he's getting a game ATM is because Gumby and Lucas are out, but once they come their will be no room on the flanks for him, we've got much better options than him in this department.

Thats total rubbish and you know it. McPhee was never earmarked to play CHF. He would be playing if one or both of them were in.

[Schmick]

Is this the best Bendigo side or something ?

Lonergan ?
McPhee ? :thumbsd::thumbsd::thumbsd:
Lovett ?
Lovett-Murray even ?

Also how slow is that forward line. If the ball goes to ground we would be absoloutly F**ked.
Back line is treacle like too with the exception of Dempsey too.
How's the backline slow? Atkinson is the fastest at the club, Pears has very good pace for his height, and Welsh isn't slow at all.

[Schmick]

Who ?
Welsh, Lonergan, Lovett, Jetta and Lucas/Gumby (one of them on the flank whilst the other is playing CHF).

[Daytripper]

How's the backline slow? Atkinson is the fastest at the club Davey, Dempsey, Lovett, Reimers would probably argue that, Pears has very good pace for his height So what. Salmon probably had good pace for his height too. Pears isn't over-quck and don't even try and sugar coat it., and Welsh isn't slow at all. You're having a laugh, aren't you

[Schmick]

Thats total rubbish and you know it. McPhee was never earmarked to play CHF. He would be playing if one or both of them were in.
F: Davey Lloyd Lonergan
HF: Welsh Lucas Gumbleton

Plus we have Jetta, Lovett and possibly Neagle rotating through there.

Can't see how he'd be worth having in the side ahead of any of those guys. The only thing that is rubbish is McPhee and his disposal/decision making.

[Daytripper]

Welsh, Lonergan, Lovett, Jetta and Lucas/Gumby (one of them on the flank whilst the other is playing CHF).

None of them (except Lucas) can tie McPhee's bootlaces at this stage in their careers and you can't honestly rate Welsh above McPhee.

[Schmick]

Davey, Dempsey, Lovett, Reimers would probably argue that, So what.
No they wouldn't, because it's a fact.

Salmon probably had good pace for his height too. Pears isn't over-quck and don't even try and sugar coat it.
Pears would be playing as a 3rd tall, his pace is good for a big man, and isn't that much worse than some of the players that have been played in the backline.
You're having a laugh, aren't you
No, Welsh has alright pace, i don't think he's fast, but he's definately not that slow.

[Big Blow Hard]

F: Davey Lloyd Lonergan
HF: Welsh Lucas Gumbleton

Plus we have Jetta, Lovett and possibly Neagle rotating through there.

Can't see how he'd be worth having in the side ahead of any of those guys. The only thing that is rubbish is McPhee and his disposal/decision making.

Davey: Not much help for the rest of the season at all.
Welsh: Still best down back, 5 goals in one VFL game proves F/A
Lucas/Gumbleton: No guarantees on when they will be back.
In the meantime, McPhee should continue to play forward and grow into the role changing with Lovett-Murray.
His disposal and decision making has been no worse than most of our team. He is leading well, and getting the ball. No one else has been doing that. I would put more faith in him adapting to the role than Gumbys body lasting the season.

[Jonesy1987]

Welsh: Still best down back, 5 goals in one VFL game proves F/A


Welsh is better up forward, no-one expects him to kick goals but he's there to do defensive jobs on the oppositions best rebounders.

[donsman4eva]

Davey, Dempsey, Lovett, Reimers would probably argue that
Atkinson has been clocked as the quickest at the club, so their arguments wouldnt go very far :D

[Daytripper]

Welsh is better up forward, no-one expects him to kick goals but he's there to do defensive jobs on the oppositions best rebounders.

Not really working though, is it ?

[Jonesy1987]

Not really working though, is it ?

Not to bad, I think some weeks there just aren't the best match ups for him.

[Schmick]

None of them (except Lucas) can tie McPhee's bootlaces at this stage in their careers and you can't honestly rate Welsh above McPhee.
What, because he has more experience than him? The only thing he has going for him is that he works extremely hard, but that's all he has over them. Our gameplan involves fast running, moving the ball on quickly, pressure, accountabilty and the main one, good disposal, and the players iv'e listed do a better job of doing these things than McPhee. Our half backs and midfield do all the hard work of getting it into the forward line as quickly as possible to get it to our forwards, and then when it gets to McPhee he stops for about 5 mintues trying to find a target, then when he finds one he stuffs the kick up half of the time and all that hard work goes flying out the window.

And Yes I rate Welsh above McPhee, he's a much better forward and im sure most people who know their stuff would agree with me.

[kelvin_sheedy]

What, because he has more experience than him? The only thing he has going for him is that he works extremely hard, but that's all he has over them. Our gameplan involves fast running, moving the ball on quickly, pressure, accountabilty and the main one, good disposal, and the players iv'e listed do a better job of doing these things than McPhee. Our half backs and midfield do all the hard work of getting it into the forward line as quickly as possible to get it to our forwards, and then when it gets to McPhee he stops for about 5 mintues trying to find a target, then when he finds one he stuffs the kick up half of the time and all that hard work goes flying out the window.

And Yes I rate Welsh above McPhee, he's a much better forward and im sure most people who know their stuff would agree with me.

Boy oh boy have we had some crazy posts in the past week.

Is everyone feeling ok?

Every aspect of McPhee's game is better and even the things you don't like or think he struggles with Welsh struggles a lot more.

McPhee has 73% efficiency this year while Welsh is tracking at a measly 60%.

Welsh is a vanilla half back flanker which is symptomatic of our team the past few years.

[donsman4eva]

Boy oh boy have we had some crazy posts in the past week.

Is everyone feeling ok?

Every aspect of McPhee's game is better and even the things you don't like or think he struggles with Welsh struggles a lot more.

McPhee has 73% efficiency this year while Welsh is tracking at a measly 60%.

Welsh is a vanilla half back flanker which is symptomatic of our team the past few years.
Wow, this stat certainly seems to be in vogue this year. Seriously, can anyone actually tell me what counts as an "efficient" kick. I think their definition is wrong to be honest. They wont count a long kick along the boundary line to a contest as "effective", yet alot of the time, it is the best option. Same goes with a long kick into the forward line. If the kick gets spoiled, it is ineffective, even if it is then crumbed by our forwards and a goal is scored.

Efficiency is not the be all and end all statistic, especially in this case. Look at the way the two players attack the ball. McPhee often gets uncontested marks and then handballs to a running player. High efficiency, low risk. Welsh goes into a pack head first to try and extract the ball, or has the ball and tries to take on opponents to benefit the team. Low efficiency, high risk.

Also, Welsh is alot more accountable for his opponent. He has been getting the shutdown roles in our forward 50. He has only played 3 games this year, and hasnt got into the groove of things this year.

These are the stats for the games where Andrew Welsh and Adam McPhee have played together this year. I'd say the stats speak for themselves.

McPhee: 16 kicks, 19 handballs, 10 marks, 19 tackles 4FF, 10FA, 3 goals 2 behinds Average Champion Data rating:63.3
Welsh: 34 kicks, 22 handballs, 17 marks, 4 tackles, 6FF, 2FA, 3 goals, 0 behinds Average Champion Data ranking: 72

Now who would you say has been more influential?

[Pevers-Legend]

Once they decided McPhee was going up forward, I feared for Welsh.

McPhee and Welsh as our HFF plus Scotty - that looks pretty ugly.

Either we move McPhee or reinvent Welsh somewhere else one may have to go seasons end for the benefit of their career moreso than Essendon

[kelvin_sheedy]

Wow, this stat certainly seems to be in vogue this year. Seriously, can anyone actually tell me what counts as an "efficient" kick. I think their definition is wrong to be honest. They wont count a long kick along the boundary line to a contest as "effective", yet alot of the time, it is the best option. Same goes with a long kick into the forward line. If the kick gets spoiled, it is ineffective, even if it is then crumbed by our forwards and a goal is scored.

Efficiency is not the be all and end all statistic, especially in this case. Look at the way the two players attack the ball. McPhee often gets uncontested marks and then handballs to a running player. High efficiency, low risk. Welsh goes into a pack head first to try and extract the ball, or has the ball and tries to take on opponents to benefit the team. Low efficiency, high risk.

Also, Welsh is alot more accountable for his opponent. He has been getting the shutdown roles in our forward 50. He has only played 3 games this year, and hasnt got into the groove of things this year.

These are the stats for the games where Andrew Welsh and Adam McPhee have played together this year. I'd say the stats speak for themselves.

McPhee: 16 kicks, 19 handballs, 10 marks, 19 tackles 4FF, 10FA, 3 goals 2 behinds Average Champion Data rating:63.3
Welsh: 34 kicks, 22 handballs, 17 marks, 4 tackles, 6FF, 2FA, 3 goals, 0 behinds Average Champion Data ranking: 72

Now who would you say has been more influential?

Stats are stats. You can argue till your blue in the face on how their counted but it would average itself out no matter which way you did it.

Welsh has played forward 50 for the past year and a bit and has shutdown about 3 players in that time. In the meantime players like Rioli have come and past him. Successful teams have much much better options up forward. They don't turn vanilla half back flankers into forward 50 lockdown specialists. You need more tricks to your bow to play forward. Welsh doesn't have any.

McPhee goes in just as hard as Welsh.

McPhee has predominately played as a leading forward and in a midfield getting smashed will more than likely get less of the ball. Welsh has pushed into the middle and down back and will obviously get more of the ball.

Welsh has had zero impact in games this year. McPhee has had influence in a number of them.

Any one that even remotely thinks Welsh is better than McPhee has absolutely no idea about football. Heck I reckon your Ricky Dyson is a good player argument stands up better than the Welsh one. ;)

[kelvin_sheedy]

Once they decided McPhee was going up forward, I feared for Welsh.

McPhee and Welsh as our HFF plus Scotty - that looks pretty ugly.

Either we move McPhee or reinvent Welsh somewhere else one may have to go seasons end for the benefit of their career moreso than Essendon

Totally agree.

We have Davey and Jetta and possibly Reimers as the small goalsneak's and defensive options. Two big forwards and McPhee as the hit up half forward.

Welsh is surplus to requirements.

[Longy413]

McPhee's had a good season.

He reminds me of Scott Lucas circa 1998-2003.
No matter what Scotty did, he was hounded by our supporters.

Adam McPhee is a good footballer, he has short comings but he's a leader, he has a high work rate, runs both ways and is a good target playing as a high/sweeping forward.

Leads the club in marks and is second in tackles.

I'm a Welsh fan, but I'd have McPhee in my team before him any time.

I also liked his work in the midfield in the last quarter on Sunday.