A 3 tiered Promotion/Relegation League in Geelong - Thoughts?

[The Hulkster]

We all know it is probably best for football in Geelong but it could prove to be a difficult task to undertake. What are peoples constructive thoughts?

[G.F.C]

We all know it is probably best for football in Geelong but it could prove to be a difficult task to undertake. What are peoples constructive thoughts?

I personally think a 3 division relegation system makes sense.

I'd have an elite 10 team division 1 with a 2 up promotion / 2 down relegation.

I'd then have a 12 team 2nd division and 12 team 3rd division, with a 3 up promotion / 3 down relegation.

[NoRumoursAllFact]

I personally think a 3 division relegation system makes sense.

I'd have an elite 10 team division 1 with a 2 up promotion / 2 down relegation.

I'd then have a 12 team 2nd division and 12 team 3rd division, with a 3 up promotion / 3 down relegation.


3 up?? So how would that work if the top 2 teams dont make the grand final and it's 2 other grand finalists or something of that nature. Apart from the Grand Finalists how would the third team be judged.

In my opinion I'd keep it simple, the teams that playoff go up. Easy, no problems.

This has been spoken about before too but the main argument is the current GDFL clubs owning Buckleys etc. But dont get me wrong, I'm all for it and it could and would work.

[The Hulkster]

3 up?? So how would that work if the top 2 teams dont make the grand final and it's 2 other grand finalists or something of that nature. Apart from the Grand Finalists how would the third team be judged.

In my opinion I'd keep it simple, the teams that playoff go up. Easy, no problems.

This has been spoken about before too but the main argument is the current GDFL clubs owning Buckleys etc. But dont get me wrong, I'm all for it and it could and would work.

I think the 2 up 2 down system would work best. The 2 grand finalists go up and bottom 2 down.

The Buckleys thing i dont think is really much. The GDFL clubs would retain their stake in it as it currently is and they would continue to receive money no matter what league the are in.

The main stumbling block is the GFL clubs. There is no way any of them ever want to drop down a division. And fair enough to. But i think for the betterment of football in Geelong it is a must. Maybe the VCFL have to step in a make this happen for as long as the clubs have to vote on it the GFL clubs will never go for it.

There would be so much more interest in Geelong football. Clubs with ambition can try to better themselves which is great and it will help end clubs becoming whipping boys for years on end as they will be able to drop down and become more competitive. There will be more interest in the lower halves of leagues no. Usually by late July early August its all over for at least 10-12 clubs in Geelong but with relegation a threat they would have more to playfor.

The benefits for this are just so great i just hope everyone can see the sense in it one day and make it happen.

[NoRumoursAllFact]

Spot on Hulk, couldnt have said it better myself.
Only a handful of GFL clubs would be genuinely worried about it at this stage. Maybe teams like StAlbans etc have been playing overs for far too long. A drop in standard would do them good.
The amount of times they've played practice matches against BFL and GDFL teams and been pumped is incredible.

I'm not potting the Supersaints here dont get me wrong they have done a lot of work to try to turn it around.

[Thomson 2008]

I think it would be a good idea but the GDFL wouldn't go for it anymore. Because of buckley's. GDFL is the richest league at moment if it went in to a 3 division league it would be split between all the team and I can say the gdfl only want the 12 team to have a share in it

[NoRumoursAllFact]

I think it would be a good idea but the GDFL wouldn't go for it anymore. Because of buckley's. GDFL is the richest league at moment if it went in to a 3 division league it would be split between all the team and I can say the gdfl only want the 12 team to have a share in it

Yeah but as was stated by Hulk the founding clubs of Buckleys (currnet GDFL clubs) still continue to reap the benefits of their share regardless of what league they will stand in

[Drago]

We all know it is probably best for football in Geelong but it could prove to be a difficult task to undertake. What are peoples constructive thoughts?


Currently how many areas/leagues are currently operating a promotion/relegation system throughout the state? and how is that going at present.

Secondly imagine if we had this in for season 2007. This would have led to Newcomb and Ocean Grove going up and also Belmont and East being promoted to level 2. Have a look at Newcomb now and tell me would that have been good for the league and the club.

Promotion and Relegation is seriously affected by a clubs ability to attract players and therefore it can and is effected by a clubs ability to create income and pay players. GDFL clubs currently operate on income streams that in the main are less than their GFL brothers therefore they would find this hard to compete.

[newton]

Currently how many areas/leagues are currently operating a promotion/relegation system throughout the state? and how is that going at present.

Secondly imagine if we had this in for season 2007. This would have led to Newcomb and Ocean Grove going up and also Belmont and East being promoted to level 2. Have a look at Newcomb now and tell me would that have been good for the league and the club.

Promotion and Relegation is seriously affected by a clubs ability to attract players and therefore it can and is effected by a clubs ability to create income and pay players. GDFL clubs currently operate on income streams that in the main are less than their GFL brothers therefore they would find this hard to compete.It's fair to say if they were going up then it may have been a different story for them when it came to a max exodus of players.

[The Hulkster]

It's fair to say if they were going up then it may have been a different story for them when it came to a max exodus of players.

Thats exactly right players may have stayed or it would have been easier to attract new ones becasue of their improved status.

But worse case senario they have a bad year in the GFL and they drop back the next year. Clubs will find the level they are meant to be at which is better for all clubs.

[The Hulkster]

Yeah but as was stated by Hulk the founding clubs of Buckleys (currnet GDFL clubs) still continue to reap the benefits of their share regardless of what league they will stand in

Correct which may help them survive better if they go up a division.

[theknowledge]

You got it Hulkster, GFL is the problem.
Football Geelong was formed how many years ago now with promotion and relegation talked about then, but its 12 votes to 10 Bellarine votes so its never gone anywhere.

I reckon it would be a good thing and the Buckleys part would not matter at all, but lets see Mr Hartman achieve this in his own backyard first as did try the people before him.

[chimp44]

Spot on Hulk, couldnt have said it better myself.
Only a handful of GFL clubs would be genuinely worried about it at this stage. Maybe teams like StAlbans etc have been playing overs for far too long. A drop in standard would do them good.
The amount of times they've played practice matches against BFL and GDFL teams and been pumped is incredible.

I'm not potting the Supersaints here dont get me wrong they have done a lot of work to try to turn it around.

When in the last 5-10 years have St Albans been pumped by either a BFL or GDFL team in a practice match ???? Can't recall that ever happening !!!

[Flat Track Bully]

OK... Buckley's won't be an issue... everybody gets the same share 1/38th...

The 34 clubs, umpires and three leagues...

The land is owned by the GDFL... and the Bingo is the GDFL's... this is the money-spinner GD club's are trying to protect...

Everybody seems to think it's Buckley's...

Remember the GFL tried to take Raiders on in about 1998 by starting bingo back at White Eagles House... each GFL club was asked to kick in $500, which they did, but it failed miserably...

So much needs to be taken into account... netball, juniors, finances... I just can't see it happening...

Leigh Hartman or whatever his name is has bigger issues worry about.

[NoRumoursAllFact]

When in the last 5-10 years have St Albans been pumped by either a BFL or GDFL team in a practice match ???? Can't recall that ever happening !!!

Played Torquay in a recent pre-season and where beaten by 10 goals in wet conditions.
Lost to a Gdfl team even more recently but cant recall the team.

[hawker6]

the 3 teired promotion is a great idea, but just think of the time and money needed to get such a thing up and running.
I think there would be some clubs in these leagues that wouldnt like the idea
and a idea such as this one needs support from every club or it wont work.

[d-12]

I think it is a great idea, but the concern I have is it will sparate the rich clubs from the poorer clubs more dramatically, thoughts??

[Drago]

It's fair to say if they were going up then it may have been a different story for them when it came to a max exodus of players.
I dont understand how this assumption can be made when most of the departees left for either the GDFL or CDFL.

[Drago]

I think it is a great idea, but the concern I have is it will sparate the rich clubs from the poorer clubs more dramatically, thoughts??
I agree. Without a common salary cap the top tier will be made up of the haves and the bottom tier will be made up of the have nots as the loyalty of players to clubs has eroded.

Maybe Hartman could spend a bit more time worrying about the junior structures that are in place rather than worrying about the relegation/promotion issue that is spoken about from year to year.

[Drago]

Thats exactly right players may have stayed or it would have been easier to attract new ones becasue of their improved status.

But worse case senario they have a bad year in the GFL and they drop back the next year. Clubs will find the level they are meant to be at which is better for all clubs.
The idea of relegation/promotion is contrary to this statement. The idea is that clubs dont find their level. The idea is that they strive to exceed and seek promotion or fail and drop down a grade whilst they rebuild and then strive again.

Saying that clubs will find their level implies that after a couple of years a club will settle into a division but this cant happen unelss the club continuously finishes mid table and neither wins or plays off for a flag or drops down to the bottom.

I am a traditionalist and therefore think the proposal doesn't cater for the rivalries that have been developed amongst clubs as they may or may not be in the same division from year to year. You may not get the OG v Ammos, East v Thomson, St Mary's v St Joeys, etc that everyone wants to watch becasue the teams may not be in the same division.

I would love to know what the GDFL executive think about this as I know at my club there is not a lot of support.

[wonkeyknees]

If you are waiting for all of the clubs and the 3 leagues to agree it will never happen.In the past clubs and officials from all 3 leagues have knocked the idea to look after their own self interests.
It needs the VCFL to show some leadership and make it happen as the majority of local football followers believe it needs to happen to ensure a long term future for our code in the region.

[theknowledge]

I still stick to what I said yeasterday. Football Gellong adminsiters 2 leagues now and can't get support for promotion and relegation amongst this lot. That would show the way and leadership.

I reckon the region should look at the Under 18's first as the gaps between the best and worst sides in each comp has been significant over the last few years. Bellarine is looking to be a bit different at this stage of the year.

The issue is as someone already mentioned how do you grade the promotion relegation system. It can't just be on senior sides because they may win and reserves be crap, and they are dragged into a worse postion going up. How is it done in the metro leagues? Anyone know?

Its happening in cricket in Geelong on a overall club points basis and hasn't that caused some sh!tfights over the years.

[The Hulkster]

The idea of relegation/promotion is contrary to this statement. The idea is that clubs dont find their level. The idea is that they strive to exceed and seek promotion or fail and drop down a grade whilst they rebuild and then strive again.

Saying that clubs will find their level implies that after a couple of years a club will settle into a division but this cant happen unelss the club continuously finishes mid table and neither wins or plays off for a flag or drops down to the bottom.

I am a traditionalist and therefore think the proposal doesn't cater for the rivalries that have been developed amongst clubs as they may or may not be in the same division from year to year. You may not get the OG v Ammos, East v Thomson, St Mary's v St Joeys, etc that everyone wants to watch becasue the teams may not be in the same division.

I would love to know what the GDFL executive think about this as I know at my club there is not a lot of support.

My comment about clubs finding their level was more of a short term thing. If clubs are getting pumped in one division then they could drop straight down and at least be competitive until they build up again.

Also isn't local footy already about the haves and have nots. In most leagues the richest dominate. There are esceptions of course but generally speaking that happens.

[theknowledge]

My comment about clubs finding their level was more of a short term thing. If clubs are getting pumped in one division then they could drop straight down and at least be competitive until they build up again.

Also isn't local footy already about the haves and have nots. In most leagues the richest dominate. There are esceptions of course but generally speaking that happens.

Agree it is that way now, unless a club finds a big sponsor/s prepared to back them they can struggle. Look at the West StP revival from where they were a few years back.

What is worth considering is the "about to haves or have more" Look at the population explosion in Torquay, Bannockburn, Ocean Grove etc. If these guys harness that they may well dominate. Though in Torquays case it hasn't been consistent yet.

[retired 51]

I agree. Without a common salary cap the top tier will be made up of the haves and the bottom tier will be made up of the have nots as the loyalty of players to clubs has eroded.

Maybe Hartman could spend a bit more time worrying about the junior structures that are in place rather than worrying about the relegation/promotion issue that is spoken about from year to year.
for it to work properly there would need to be a salary cap for sure, otherwise clubs would buy players for promotion, gain promotion, then next year mass exodus after club does ok but another club tries and buys promotion and the original club could be left with just fringe players and become easy beats and therefore not really having the best teams in the comp.

[wonkeyknees]

Salary caps are good in theory if everyone sticks to them.The reality is a club can manipulate any figues shown under a salary cap.When the salary cap was last in the GFL all of the top clubs would have been well over the limit.

[sevenup]

What if instead of every year sides going up and down do it every 2 or 3 years that way it rewards sides who are constantly good and sides who are poor gives them a chance to rebuild without the presure of getting dropped after one season. It could be done on a points basis lowest points over the period goes down , highest goes up.This way if a side has bad season with injury it might not cost them relegation.

[transferseason]

for it to work properly there would need to be a salary cap for sure, otherwise clubs would buy players for promotion, gain promotion, then next year mass exodus after club does ok but another club tries and buys promotion and the original club could be left with just fringe players and become easy beats and therefore not really having the best teams in the comp.

Well then thats no different to how it is now mate. You cant tell me (with GFL seen as 1st tier) that all the best teams are in that league.

Bring it in asap

[paper_up]

From memory I recall that the Mornington Peninsula Nepean Football League has used a promotion/relegation system in the past, I am not to sure if it is still in use though.

[theknowledge]

So has there been a meeting of the great minds of local football anyone ?:D

[Kowalski]

Played Torquay in a recent pre-season and where beaten by 10 goals in wet conditions.
Lost to a Gdfl team even more recently but cant recall the team.

Have just had a 1st look at this thread today so a bit tardy on my thoughts on this.
You are correct in getting done by Torquay, remember it painfully clearly as I was on a wing & busted my nose early 2nd quarter. That was about 4 years ago though & yes we were extremely shit that day.
Since then though I don't believe any of the "lower league" teams we've had practice games against have come close to winning. Beat Newcombe by 70 points the year after, Thomson the next etc etc.
It's pretty easy to think a team struggling for a while at one level should drop down, but I think that's a bit simplistic. Can only guage by what I've seen, but there's been quite a few highly rated guys come up to our club & others who've found the transition pretty hard going.
Also, in general I think it'd be difficult to promote/relegate clubs based solely on how the 1's footy goes considering each now has 2's, juniors, netball etc. Could face a situation like a few years ago in GCA when BPH cricket were relegated even though I think they won the 1sts but had nothing underneath.....

[Cats fan 16]

Currently how many areas/leagues are currently operating a promotion/relegation system throughout the state? and how is that going at present.

Secondly imagine if we had this in for season 2007. This would have led to Newcomb and Ocean Grove going up and also Belmont and East being promoted to level 2. Have a look at Newcomb now and tell me would that have been good for the league and the club.

Promotion and Relegation is seriously affected by a clubs ability to attract players and therefore it can and is effected by a clubs ability to create income and pay players. GDFL clubs currently operate on income streams that in the main are less than their GFL brothers therefore they would find this hard to compete.

The vafa (amateurs) in melbourne run the promotion/relegation system. It works very well too..A grade is an awesome standard. Theres 7 divisions - A grade to D4 and every division has fierce competition as clubs look to be promoted or desperately try to avoid relegation at the bottom end. It mantains so much more interest as the bottom clubs have something to strive for. The worst thing about it is that divisions are not location biased at all so sometimes you play teams an hour drive away etc. This wouldnt be a problem in geelong though
It would be good for geelong footy i reckon.

[theknowledge]

The vafa (amateurs) in melbourne run the promotion/relegation system. It works very well too..A grade is an awesome standard. Theres 7 divisions - A grade to D4 and every division has fierce competition as clubs look to be promoted or desperately try to avoid relegation at the bottom end. It mantains so much more interest as the bottom clubs have something to strive for. The worst thing about it is that divisions are not location biased at all so sometimes you play teams an hour drive away etc. This wouldnt be a problem in geelong though
It would be good for geelong footy i reckon.

How does it work though? Seniors seconds and juniors all go up and down? Is there a netball association with the footy?
These are questions that would require answering.

[GDFL Guru]

Have just had a 1st look at this thread today so a bit tardy on my thoughts on this.
You are correct in getting done by Torquay, remember it painfully clearly as I was on a wing & busted my nose early 2nd quarter. That was about 4 years ago though & yes we were extremely shit that day.
Since then though I don't believe any of the "lower league" teams we've had practice games against have come close to winning. Beat Newcombe by 70 points the year after, Thomson the next etc etc.
It's pretty easy to think a team struggling for a while at one level should drop down, but I think that's a bit simplistic. Can only guage by what I've seen, but there's been quite a few highly rated guys come up to our club & others who've found the transition pretty hard going.
Also, in general I think it'd be difficult to promote/relegate clubs based solely on how the 1's footy goes considering each now has 2's, juniors, netball etc. Could face a situation like a few years ago in GCA when BPH cricket were relegated even though I think they won the 1sts but had nothing underneath.....
Corio by 5 goals about 3 years ago!

[transferseason]

Great to see P.Riccardi add his 2cents on this issue. As a member of a GFL team he certainly has no worries about the idea. He added some concerns but they could be ironed out. By 2010 the Geelong region would be ready.

[The Hulkster]

Great to see P.Riccardi add his 2cents on this issue. As a member of a GFL team he certainly has no worries about the idea. He added some concerns but they could be ironed out. By 2010 the Geelong region would be ready.

Good to see Ricco also made mention of Big Footy in the article. Thanks for reading Ricco. Maybe this sort of thing needs some high profile support to get off the ground.

[theknowledge]

Close this one down. I heard from a Footy Geelong director that its not even what Hartman said to the Addy. He said he's seen it in other leagues and the Addy geniuses wrote it up that that he fully supported it here.

Addy beat up, its a non event

[The Hulkster]

Close this one down. I heard from a Footy Geelong director that its not even what Hartman said to the Addy. He said he's seen it in other leagues and the Addy geniuses wrote it up that that he fully supported it here.

Addy beat up, its a non event

No need to close down the thread just because of that. It needs to stay up to create debate and talk about it. Most people in Geelong football know its the right thing to do but its another thing to actually get it to happen. While talk is still going on the fire will still burn and hopefully one day the powers that be will see the sense in it and make it happen.

[rizzo]

No need to close down the thread just because of that. It needs to stay up to create debate and talk about it. Most people in Geelong football know its the right thing to do but its another thing to actually get it to happen. While talk is still going on the fire will still burn and hopefully one day the powers that be will see the sense in it and make it happen.

Exactly.

[theknowledge]

No need to close down the thread just because of that. It needs to stay up to create debate and talk about it. Most people in Geelong football know its the right thing to do but its another thing to actually get it to happen. While talk is still going on the fire will still burn and hopefully one day the powers that be will see the sense in it and make it happen.


Agree with you but I suppose what I'm saying is unless the FG and GDFL guys are really talking about it we can talk forever but it won't go anywhere.

[Powerpunch]

There's a lot involved in the background, but I think that if it going to the best thing for local footy then that is what really matters. I think that it would give a real spark to the way footy is played and get some people out of there comfort zones.

Clearence time would be very interesting. I could imagine a lot of players clearing to clubs to stay at the top (or their level). It would be great to see where players loyalties lay.

I reckon get it going and get it on.:)