View Full Version : Things I Don't Understand...
Firstly at the start of this week game I did not expect the Tigers to get up, however in any two horse race you are always in contention. But in typical Tigers fashion the side gets into a position to win and finds a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This year the Bulldogs, Saints and now Cats games the side was in a position to win and fluffed it.
How can a side come out and play a half of football that was some of the best most intense team orintated style of play I have seen for years and then turn up after half time and produce that crap.
More to the point Terry Wallace how can you leave Chris Hyde on Ablett all day when the guy is tearing the side a new one. Notice how Corey went to half back after Tuck tore him up in the first half, notice how Corey then carved us up. Here was an idea for you, King (who was having problems on Gamble down back) goes on Ablett. Bowden although you want him forward, is a proving backman takes Kings place (it's ok to try and win a game now and then and put a plan for next season on hold once and a while). McMahon who was turning ther ball over more than hitting a target goes forward or off with Deledio to generate run off the half back and Hyde sit his ass on the bench.
But the worst of the lot was leaving The 'Cho deep forward in the third quarter to watch the game pass the side by even though he was clearly a big part of why the team went into half time in front whilst he was on the wing. etc etc ect look forward to the same old crap next week.
As for oh Sugar I messed up again Johnson way to lead the side buddy, great kick to result in a goal after the team wrestled back some sort of momentum.
On a side note Richmond is the only side in the compertition that in order to tank has to play the senior guys rather than the kids.
On a plus note Cotchin. Foley as always, McGuane and Thursty.
RichosGuns
18 May 2008, 21:08
To be fair, I don't think we were in a winning position against Geelong. We were against the Doggies and the Aints though
Firstly at the start of this week game I did not expect the Tigers to get up, however in any two horse race you are always in contention. But in typical Tigers fashion the side gets into a position to win and finds a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This year the Bulldogs, Saints and now Cats games the side was in a position to win and fluffed it.
How can a side come out and play a half of football that was some of the best most intense team orintated style of play I have seen for years and then turn up after half time and produce that crap.
More to the point Terry Wallace how can you leave Chris Hyde on Ablett all day when the guy is tearing the side a new one. Notice how Corey went to half back after Tuck tore him up in the first half, notice how Corey then carved us up. Here was an idea for you, King (who was having problems on Gamble down back) goes on Ablett. Bowden although you want him forward, is a proving backman takes Kings place (it's ok to try and win a game now and then and put a plan for next season on hold once and a while). McMahon who was turning ther ball over more than hitting a target goes forward or off with Deledio to generate run off the half back and Hyde sit his ass on the bench.
But the worst of the lot was leaving The 'Cho deep forward in the third quarter to watch the game pass the side by even though he was clearly a big part of why the team went into half time in front whilst he was on the wing. etc etc ect look forward to the same old crap next week.
As for oh Sugar I messed up again Johnson way to lead the side buddy, great kick to result in a goal after the team wrestled back some sort of momentum.
On a side note Richmond is the only side in the compertition that in order to tank has to play the senior guys rather than the kids.
On a plus note Cotchin. Foley as always, McGuane and Thursty.
This is pretty funny, cos its true :(
Calcium Man
18 May 2008, 22:16
Firstly at the start of this week game I did not expect the Tigers to get up, however in any two horse race you are always in contention. But in typical Tigers fashion the side gets into a position to win and finds a way to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. This year the Bulldogs, Saints and now Cats games the side was in a position to win and fluffed it.
How can a side come out and play a half of football that was some of the best most intense team orintated style of play I have seen for years and then turn up after half time and produce that crap.
More to the point Terry Wallace how can you leave Chris Hyde on Ablett all day when the guy is tearing the side a new one. Notice how Corey went to half back after Tuck tore him up in the first half, notice how Corey then carved us up. Here was an idea for you, King (who was having problems on Gamble down back) goes on Ablett. Bowden although you want him forward, is a proving backman takes Kings place (it's ok to try and win a game now and then and put a plan for next season on hold once and a while). McMahon who was turning ther ball over more than hitting a target goes forward or off with Deledio to generate run off the half back and Hyde sit his ass on the bench.
But the worst of the lot was leaving The 'Cho deep forward in the third quarter to watch the game pass the side by even though he was clearly a big part of why the team went into half time in front whilst he was on the wing. etc etc ect look forward to the same old crap next week.
As for oh Sugar I messed up again Johnson way to lead the side buddy, great kick to result in a goal after the team wrestled back some sort of momentum.
On a side note Richmond is the only side in the compertition that in order to tank has to play the senior guys rather than the kids.
On a plus note Cotchin. Foley as always, McGuane and Thursty.
Can't believe how true that is.
I guess if petts and tivendale make there way back into the side we will know for sure we are tanking.
tigers_of_old_08
18 May 2008, 22:28
good grief another post-game expert
we played the cats einstein not melb, west coast or essendon - unbeaten and clearly the best team in the league. we did well all things considered
Strawbs
18 May 2008, 22:47
good grief another post-game expert
we played the cats einstein not melb, west coast or essendon - unbeaten and clearly the best team in the league. we did well all things considered
CORRECT
[quote=tigers_of_old_08;11056192]good grief another post-game expert
we played the cats einstein not melb, west coast or essendon - unbeaten and clearly the best team in the league. we did well all things considered
thats true geelong blew sydney away when the swans thought they were a chance theyll do it to better teams then us.
good grief another post-game expert
we played the cats einstein not melb, west coast or essendon - unbeaten and clearly the best team in the league. we did well all things considered
So true. :thumbsu:
This time last year they belted us by 157pts. I am truly sick of all these threads about how we can't hold onto the win, if we were then that would make us a premiership favourite and we all know how ____ing stupid that is to say.
FFS we just played the 3 best teams so far, if we were to win then we would be the best.
waiting since 80
19 May 2008, 00:20
good grief another post-game expert
we played the cats einstein not melb, west coast or essendon - unbeaten and clearly the best team in the league. we did well all things considered
Yes true tiger of old 08,we did play the cats and not melb/wc/ess, and given a dry day they might of beaten us by more!! though Suntan Wallace did stuff up with some of the match ups/moves and as "I Rock" stated and we all witnessed ourselfs...Kingy beaten and not moved, Richo moved to FF in the 3rd when the ball never passed the centre of the ground,Plus hyde on Ablett all day was'nt much fun to watch either:thumbsd:, sometimes coaches are stubborn and persist with players even when their getting beaten :confused:fair enough a quarter or two we have a bench lets use it...and refering to your "GOOD GRIEF ANOTHER POST GAME EXPERT" When did you expect it to be posted pre game:rolleyes:.
____________________________________________________________ __
The screen door slams... mary's dress sways...
Pav for AA
19 May 2008, 02:26
So true. :thumbsu:
This time last year they belted us by 157pts. I am truly sick of all these threads about how we can't hold onto the win, if we were then that would make us a premiership favourite and we all know how ____ing stupid that is to say.
FFS we just played the 3 best teams so far, if we were to win then we would be the best.
That was indoors.
You were lucky it rained. :thumbsu:
CoggaRules
19 May 2008, 12:13
mate turned to me and hit the nail on the head.
He says, you know what i dont understand? Why when Richo is kicking butt, across HB, we are 4 kicks up in the rain with a chance to go 5 up, does TW take Richo from where he is the unpenetrable wall, and puts him in the FL. And like clockwork, we are 1 kick up and looking over our shoulders.
Get with the program TW, its not all about working to a formula dude, its all about knowing when to change it when you have to. Keep Richo in the BL and soak up the pressure from the cats push to reel us in, snag a major on the rebound, and keep the ____ing lead to 4 kicks.....FFS, to easy..;)
[quote=Pav for AA;11059371]That was indoors.
You were lucky it rained. :thumbsu:
and whats your excuse?
That was indoors.
You were lucky it rained. :thumbsu:
How are the beltings coming along. Hows Taz doing?
lookkg386
19 May 2008, 12:20
mate turned to me and hit the nail on the head.
He says, you know what i dont understand? Why when Richo is kicking butt, across HB, we are 4 kicks up in the rain with a chance to go 5 up, does TW take Richo from where he is the unpenetrable wall, and puts him in the FL. And like clockwork, we are 1 kick up and looking over our shoulders.
Get with the program TW, its not all about working to a formula dude, its all about knowing when to change it when you have to. Keep Richo in the BL and soak up the pressure from the cats push to reel us in, snag a major on the rebound, and keep the ____ing lead to 4 kicks.....FFS, to easy..;)
You do understand that it was TW in the first place who's coaching move was to put him on the wing and running off half back, he can't win either way with some supporters...
good grief another post-game expert
we played the cats einstein not melb, west coast or essendon - unbeaten and clearly the best team in the league. we did well all things considered
Wrong, watch the first and second half again. The score difference had just as much to do with Richmond playing badly as it did with Geelong playing well.
Coach_Required
19 May 2008, 14:48
That was indoors.
You were lucky it rained. :thumbsu:
Get back in your hole Pav, your team is a laughing stock :thumbsu::D
CoggaRules
19 May 2008, 14:57
You do understand that it was TW in the first place who's coaching move was to put him on the wing and running off half back, he can't win either way with some supporters...
man...you have NFI. ;)
Roger Dodger
19 May 2008, 15:18
Oh the mediocrity continues from the likes of Sante who are always proud of a loss because it was less than what we lost to the opposition the year before! Brilliant assessment. We should have been five goals up at half time and instead bombed another bloody gift.
How did we piss away the game?
The backline who our supporters are worshiping for god know's what reason is terrible under pressure.
McGuane who tries hard still doesn't understand how to kick along the boundary when it is crucial to restore a lead. Ditto Moore.
King still doesn't know how to keep his opponent boundary side. Time and again he allowed Kelly/Chapman to dictate what side of the corridor they were on. If they're going to play King back will someone teach him how to do so at training? A move onto Ablett as someone suggested would have been more beneficial.
Hyde is finished. Tuck not far away. Both hurt us severely on the weekend... again. Slow. Hesitant. Poor skills.
Polak for his size is the least intimidating guy on the ground. There's no use playing him if he's not going to exert any physical influence on the game.
Tambling is lucky that its Dream Time this week.
Lets see.
We've lost to the teams that are currently..
1,2,6,7 & 9th on the ladder.
Drew with the team that's 3rd.
Beat the teams that are 11th and 14th.
Now, firstly I'd say that means we've had a reasonably tough draw, but more to the point it seems to indicate we're in the 9-12 bracket that many of us tipped before the year ( and noticably better than many others tipped we would be ).
Sure, it probably means finals aren't on this year, let alone a premiership, but considering we got the spoon last year, and the improvements we've seen this year should become even more pronounced over the next year or two, I'd say that we've done OK.
2-1-5 isn't good, but before the season, who would seriously have looked at the fixture and thought we'd be better than this after 8?
How can anyone say it's ok this one got away because we played this team etc. It's a two horse race and regardless of who you are up against if you get in a position to win then you should go on and win the bloody thing.
CoggaRules
19 May 2008, 21:41
Oh the mediocrity continues from the likes of Sante who are always proud of a loss because it was less than what we lost to the opposition the year before! Brilliant assessment. We should have been five goals up at half time and instead bombed another bloody gift.
How did we piss away the game?
The backline who our supporters are worshiping for god know's what reason is terrible under pressure.
McGuane who tries hard still doesn't understand how to kick along the boundary when it is crucial to restore a lead. Ditto Moore.
King still doesn't know how to keep his opponent boundary side. Time and again he allowed Kelly/Chapman to dictate what side of the corridor they were on. If they're going to play King back will someone teach him how to do so at training? A move onto Ablett as someone suggested would have been more beneficial.
Hyde is finished. Tuck not far away. Both hurt us severely on the weekend... again. Slow. Hesitant. Poor skills.
Polak for his size is the least intimidating guy on the ground. There's no use playing him if he's not going to exert any physical influence on the game.
Tambling is lucky that its Dream Time this week.
Basically the most dissapointing thing from this game. This imo i would pin on TW. These ____ing rotations around the ground, that are mapped out before the game and rigidly stuck to, suck big time. In the wet, you get 5 up, you nail it TW. When you get to that point when you look up, you are 5 up, the ____ing formula you went in with, should change and it should be, preserve the lead and hit them on the rebound. You dont just sit there and do SFA as it goes from 5 to 1 up and then decide to try something.
Like WTF are you thinking man? This scientific stuff sucks shit, when its back to the basics of a wet weather slog.
I am with you man, yeah we did ok, but again how the ____ did we let this slip in the blink of an eye, defies logic. ;)
KWAH FAN
19 May 2008, 22:07
I can't believe how harsh some off you guy's are about your club.
You have unearthed a superstar in one Foley, and a young gun in Cotchin,
you've played the three top teams without getting belted, and you will probably
be in the position my team was in last year, have some faith in your club, it's
amazing how quickly things can change in today's modern game.
Tiger67
19 May 2008, 23:55
Basically the most dissapointing thing from this game. This imo i would pin on TW. These ____ing rotations around the ground, that are mapped out before the game and rigidly stuck to, suck big time. In the wet, you get 5 up, you nail it TW. When you get to that point when you look up, you are 5 up, the ____ing formula you went in with, should change and it should be, preserve the lead and hit them on the rebound. You dont just sit there and do SFA as it goes from 5 to 1 up and then decide to try something.
Like WTF are you thinking man? This scientific stuff sucks shit, when its back to the basics of a wet weather slog.
I am with you man, yeah we did ok, but again how the ____ did we let this slip in the blink of an eye, defies logic. ;)
I just watched the game again with all the emotion gone through knowing the result.
The thing that stood out most was that at the start of the third quater the Cats really lifted their work load and the extra pressure they put on every Tiger possession was amazing.
When I first watched the game I did not notice the 20-30% increase in intensity from the Cats but if anyone has another look at the game they will see what I mean.
You need to really watch the way the Cats lifted.
I don't think that our intensity changed.
It was more a case that our mistakes became more regular (almost panic) due to the extra pressure that they put on us every time we got the ball.
The other thing that really stood out was that they also protect the ball carrier better than any other team I have ever seen.
This is not a defence of the way we played the third quater just an observation of how well the Cats performed when the game needed to be won.
CoggaRules
20 May 2008, 00:01
I just watched the game again with all the emotion gone through knowing the result.
The thing that stood out most was that at the start of the third quater the Cats really lifted their work load and the extra pressure they put on every Tiger possession was amazing.
When I first watched the game I did not notice the 20-30% increase in intensity from the Cats but if anyone has another look at the game they will see what I mean.
You need to really watch the way the Cats lifted.
I don't think that our intensity changed.
It was more a case that our mistakes became more regular (almost panic) due to the extra pressure that they put on us every time we got the ball.
The other thing that really stood out was that they also protect the ball carrier better than any other team I have ever seen.
This is not a defence of the way we played the third quater just an observation of how well the Cats performed when the game needed to be won.
They needed to win the game, because we let them in to win it. We should have been 6 up at the first bell, in the pouring rain. We should have won it before half time. i.e. put the wall up and let them come at us, for the second half and punish them on the rebound. All we needed were 2 goals in amongst them kicking say 7 if they got through a packed defence, with Richo on the defensive 50 line.
Rush the behinds, scrag, bottle it up, make it ugly, do anything but let them run, and we were home in the upset. The coach ____ed it up.
FFS, we were keeping the ball in play, when a rushed behind was a given, and then we watched it sail through the big sticks, 2 seconds later. Get the ____ing runner out TW. No risks,when you are 5 up in the rain. Naaaa, we had to move Richo to the FL, when the cats couldnt get a sniff across HB when he was prowling. ;)
Tiger67
20 May 2008, 09:00
They needed to win the game, because we let them in to win it. We should have been 6 up at the first bell, in the pouring rain. We should have won it before half time. i.e. put the wall up and let them come at us, for the second half and punish them on the rebound. All we needed were 2 goals in amongst them kicking say 7 if they got through a packed defence, with Richo on the defensive 50 line.
Rush the behinds, scrag, bottle it up, make it ugly, do anything but let them run, and we were home in the upset. The coach ____ed it up.
FFS, we were keeping the ball in play, when a rushed behind was a given, and then we watched it sail through the big sticks, 2 seconds later. Get the ____ing runner out TW. No risks,when you are 5 up in the rain. Naaaa, we had to move Richo to the FL, when the cats couldnt get a sniff across HB when he was prowling. ;)
I agree with most of what you are saying Cogga, especially pushing Richo back, it was a mistake not to do so and he may have been able to plug a couple of holes but that does not change the fact that the biggest change was in the intensity of the Cats.
As a team our guys are still learning and growing, and I don't think that they had another level to go too when the Cats lifted in the thrid quarter.
They monstered us and we didnt have the physical precence to go with them.
Lets not forget other than Selwood and Hawkins, most of their team is mid 20s upwards.
Like I said in my last post this is not a defence of how we played , more a recognition of how well the Cats played in the third quarter. They had another level to go too and watching the first half we threw everything at them and only lead by 6 points.
We did not have any more in our bag of tricks but in time with bigger bodies and more experience this should become part of this groups armoury within 2-3 years.
CoggaRules
20 May 2008, 12:41
I agree with most of what you are saying Cogga, especially pushing Richo back, it was a mistake not to do so and he may have been able to plug a couple of holes but that does not change the fact that the biggest change was in the intensity of the Cats.
As a team our guys are still learning and growing, and I don't think that they had another level to go too when the Cats lifted in the thrid quarter.
They monstered us and we didnt have the physical precence to go with them.
Lets not forget other than Selwood and Hawkins, most of their team is mid 20s upwards.
Like I said in my last post this is not a defence of how we played , more a recognition of how well the Cats played in the third quarter. They had another level to go too and watching the first half we threw everything at them and only lead by 6 points.
We did not have any more in our bag of tricks but in time with bigger bodies and more experience this should become part of this groups armoury within 2-3 years.
yep...understand what you saying re. cats intensity, it was quite evident that they upped the ante, it was quite visible, when they had numbers wherever the ball was. But strategies need to change when blind freddy can see that a team is making its push...IMO anyway. The brains trust should have realised that whatever their plan was, i.e. move Richo here, put x, y , z there, should have changed, in the face of the surge, in an attempt to weather it. Maybe snag a couple on the rebound, and maybe snuff out the surge. Like i said, when you are 5 up in the rain, you can soak up the pressure and preserve the lead. Its all about keeping your nose in front. Any relenting of that surge, and you strike and kill it off. Of course you might say that the cats are unrelenting, but they were that because they could see they were reeling us in quick. You stem the tide and buy time and you never know. For sure and certain that in the heat of battle when they had drawn up to us....and this isnt a bag for Polak, the guy cant kick, but he presented us with the opportunity, but he snags that goal and we keep a buffer and maybe deflate them a bit. He misses and whhhhhhhhhhhooooooooooosh...bye bye charlie.
TW must have been saying you little ____ing beauty when before you knew it, we were 5 kicks up. But he dropped the ball, when he stuck to the pre game plan. I reckon he has pencilled it in for future reference to. And it this aint a bag of TW either. The fact that the plan got us to be 5 up, means that he had it right at that point. But when its wet and the ball is sliding around off packs etc, the structure shit that they keep on talking about means JS, IMO. You need to improvise and get the RESULT.
But then again when the umps are paying ridiculous deliberate OOBs, because the commision agents have poured on the cash for the 5% interest, it makes life difficult;)
How can anyone say it's ok this one got away because we played this team etc. It's a two horse race and regardless of who you are up against if you get in a position to win then you should go on and win the bloody thing.
Yeah, if you get in a position to win, you should win. But please don't use the term two horse race for footy, because if its between say geelong & Melbourne, then thats like a race between Phar Lap & Mr. Ed.
tigertiger
20 May 2008, 16:46
I can't believe how harsh some off you guy's are about your club.
You have unearthed a superstar in one Foley, and a young gun in Cotchin,
you've played the three top teams without getting belted, and you will probably
be in the position my team was in last year, have some faith in your club, it's
amazing how quickly things can change in today's modern game.
Its a sad day when the only words of wisdom come from a Hawthorn supporter.
What is wrong with you people how about the highlights
Cotchin possesions goals and the push off on Scarlett
McGuanes tackle in the first qrtr I think,
Richo, Foley, Deledio, plenty of highlights
The gang tackling we did
We outscored Geelong in 2 of the 4 qrts and in the 2nd there was only 1 point different the 3rd was bad but they were very good
We will win at least 8 games between now and the end of the season add that to our 2.5 and Id say this season will have been a success
Its a sad day when the only words of wisdom come from a Hawthorn supporter.
What is wrong with you people how about the highlights
Cotchin possesions goals and the push off on Scarlett
McGuanes tackle in the first qrtr I think,
Richo, Foley, Deledio, plenty of highlights
The gang tackling we did
We outscored Geelong in 2 of the 4 qrts and in the 2nd there was only 1 point different the 3rd was bad but they were very good
We will win at least 8 games between now and the end of the season add that to our 2.5 and Id say this season will have been a success
Yep and they will all look good on the 2008 highlights package too. Pity though that after 8 rounds the team sit on 2.5 wins when it should be on 5 wins.
I just thought of a joke that could get a red but what the hell; whats the difference between my last missus and the RFC? When she was five up in the wet she wouldn't let the oppurtunity pass by.
Its threads like these that makes me see the drug culture is alive and well ...
Crumden
20 May 2008, 22:38
The commentators keep saying that Geelong is winning despite not playing well. That is crap. Geelong's 3rd quarter was the best quarter of footy I have seen a team play in those type of conditions. Ever. The way they were handling and moving the ball was unbelievable. In large that was because we took the foot of the peddle - that much is true. But it is very very hard for a side to maintain the sort of intensity we had in the first half for an entire game, especially for a young developing side like ours.
The first half was probably the best footy we have played this year. The 3rd quarter we were slaughtered. The 4th, when both sides were knackered, we came back and matched them for play and slightly outscored them. We have to keep working on playing out 4 quarters, but I still think there was a fair few positives out of this game. Especially when some players who had been improving in form, such as Moore and Tambling had poor games, and others like Reiwoldt struggled with the conditions. Thursfield, who has been one of our pillars down back, also played poorly and Browny had been crook all week before the game. We matched the top team for 3 quarters and bettered them in parts despite having a few players down on form.
IMO the loss against the Saints was far more disappointing. Before that game I expected us to win by 5 goals and we won enough of the ball to win it by ten. But poor skills let us down in that one. Our skills in the wet against Geelong were better than in the dry against the Saints until we fatigued in the second half.
Maybe a few other things could have been tried. King kept Ablett to 2 Brownlow votes last time we played whereas he'll get a certain 3 this time around against Hyde, so maybe that could have been tried. Richo had his fingers down his throat at one stage, so I'm guessing that the reason he was sitting up forward was because he was too spent to keep running up and back. What is the point of running him entirely into the ground against Geelong when there is another game in 7 days?
Mario Speedwagon
21 May 2008, 02:42
Maybe a few other things could have been tried. King kept Ablett to 2 Brownlow votes last time we played whereas he'll get a certain 3 this time around against Hyde, so maybe that could have been tried.
Really?!!??!Kept him to only 2 votes last time you say? That's ____in' awesome!!!!What a legend!!!Jeez, we coulda won this time!!!:eek:
Shit, only 2 votes....:o
Crumden
21 May 2008, 18:26
Yea. I should have used the sarcastic smiley thing.
mate turned to me and hit the nail on the head.
He says, you know what i dont understand? Why when Richo is kicking butt, across HB, we are 4 kicks up in the rain with a chance to go 5 up, does TW take Richo from where he is the unpenetrable wall, and puts him in the FL. And like clockwork, we are 1 kick up and looking over our shoulders.
Get with the program TW, its not all about working to a formula dude, its all about knowing when to change it when you have to. Keep Richo in the BL and soak up the pressure from the cats push to reel us in, snag a major on the rebound, and keep the ____ing lead to 4 kicks.....FFS, to easy..;)
So, Richo out on his feet has to stay in the backline where the ball is continually being kicked to.
Your mate must be retarded or something ;)