Payment of U18s

[NOCHANCE]

:thumbsd:It is understood that one club is paying a number of there under 18 players that they got from otehr clubs. Surely this cannot be allowed to go on in our competion. To make things worse one under 18 side folded after losing there better players due to this. The coach only finding out his captain had signed with another club the night before the first game. I can accept clubs finding employment especially apprenticships but payment is just not acceptable. :(:(:thumbsd::thumbsd:

[So whattya know]

Name the club , why make statements without any actual credibility behind them

[stifler's mom]

Name the club , why make statements without any actual credibility behind them


Because No Chance is nothing but a sh1t stirring St.Kilda supporter in disguise as a human.

[auskickrules]

Because No Chance is nothing but a sh1t stirring St.Kilda supporter in disguise as a human.

Not a very good disguise, this guy just loves to start rumours to see what happens with them.

[rip it up]

I have heard the exact same thing, weather it is true or not is a different story, but lets hope its not cos thats not good for footy

[NOCHANCE]

Not a very good disguise, this guy just loves to start rumours to see what happens with them.

If only they were just rumours the disapointing thing is none of them are.

[Valley Spy]

Also heard it. First division club who many think look bright and rosy from a distance but scratch through the surface and things are very different.

[localfootyguru]

All rumor and innuendo according to my well versed sources despite the rumor being around for a fair while.

Disappointing to see the Hawks not have an Unders this year though - hopefully that can be corrected next year. I guess the bonus is some of the young guys are blossoming into senior players through their exposure to senior footy.

[TeeS]

I'm helping to run Auskick at Monbulk this year (amazing I know), my sons in prep at the local school.
Anyway, I was surprised that they fell short at U/18 level.
I think some of the kids have ventured up my way for the year to play 18's.
I'm sure the they'll head back down the hill next year to continue on with the Hawks, just good they've got an opportunity to have a kick this year.
The kids who chose to stay will benefit from Senior exposure, there is absolutely no question about that.
I'm not sure how Monbulk are situated with U/16's coming through for 2009.
I'm sure this year is just an abberation.

[Valley Spy]

Just wanna add that Monbulk werent the team that had to fold because of these rumours?? and that the stories are coming from the kids getting the money. The club under suspicion has had a system in place for a while now where they could allow U/18's to play without it costing the kids a cent (rego, boots, everything else) now a lump sum payment has been added to the deal.

[ateamm]

why dont you just name the clubs. an under 18 side that has recently folded was junction is that one piece of the puzzle valley spy?

[zaco]

whats the issue here kids getting payed to play or being poached from other clubs?? coz if its payment well thats the way the cookie crumbles!! Sad i know but there aren't many teams out there that dont pay one or two players.

[NOCHANCE]

whats the issue here kids getting payed to play or being poached from other clubs?? coz if its payment well thats the way the cookie crumbles!! Sad i know but there aren't many teams out there that dont pay one or two players.

To pay juniors is a disgrace and there is no justification for it. Of coarse there getting poached thats the point of the money.:thumbsd: To say there arent many clubs not paying under 18s is a joke as this is the first Ive ever heard of this happening in the Yarra Valley.

[rip it up]

why dont you just name the clubs. an under 18 side that has recently folded was junction is that one piece of the puzzle valley spy?

Surely you could guess the club, lets just say that it starts with s and ends in ilvan, am i correct?

[rosy3]

Was told by a club official that Yarra Junction are concerned that several of their Under 18 players were lured away by the promise of $$$. Did they win the premiership last season?

It's a bit of a shame because the Under 18s are the backbone of the future. Several senior Boners now came through together in a very successful junior team and the club are reaping the rewards now.

You have to build a culture that makes people want to be around a club. I doubt too many of those Boner players could have been lured to Alex, for example, for the sake of a few bucks.

[TeeS]

Don't disagree with you there, however, paying Under 18's will eventually become the norm.
Whether you agree with it or not, it will happen.
Why ?
Its called progression, moving with the times.
We used to say how much $150 a game for a senior player was, then we used to say how much $250 was.
Good players now will be getting double that, and I'm not even going to try and guess how much the Northern Suburb connection at Silvan would be getting. (money, jobs, however they set it up)
Paying kids will eventually become one of the only ways to retain them.
Once 1 or 2 start doing it, it will domino !
Sorry folks, but thats the current world we live in isn't it ?

[NOCHANCE]

Theres a big differance in retaining them and poaching them dont you think. Volunteer coaches put a lot of thier own time into helping these kids in all aspects of development not just football. To have them swiped from underneath your nose by greedy clubs is shameful. What sort of message does it send to the kids? To never play footy unless you get paid?:thumbsd::thumbsd:

[rip it up]

What has happened to club loyalty, to wanting to play with ya mates, our league will be in a bit of strife if U18 players are getting paid. I am just so surprised that the club really wants to win premierships that much that they are willing to take all credibility out of the U18 competition.

[Monniehawk]

What has happened to club loyalty, to wanting to play with ya mates, our league will be in a bit of strife if U18 players are getting paid. I am just so surprised that the club really wants to win premierships that much that they are willing to take all credibility out of the U18 competition.
I think you will find that - rather than blatant poaching - it is when clubs are under pressure to secure their current players that they may be forced(?) to offer an incentive. Or it may be inspired by an over-ambitious coach! The inducements could be in the form of gifts, or money, but it has certainly happened in the past as clubs strive to keep their fragile lists. Don't like it, but can't always blame 'em!
The issue seems to generate some heat when it is perceived that others are luring kids away from their current clubs. I'm not sure that it is as rife as the postings seem to suggest, but I'd guess that if a club does offer their guys some "incentives", neighbouring kids will soon catch on and line up with hands out. It is too easy to turn a kid's head.
Silvan do have a very strong U18 and Monbulk doesn't. I don't quite understand that. But I haven't heard anyone from Monbulk blame Silvan - or any other club. I think we were a bit complacent about our kids and needed to keep closer to them. We are still in shock over it.
As for loyalty-- The senior clubs are the ones that set the tone and the kids follow. What has been happening around the league in the past few years?
Craig Clarke's loyalty may well be just a remnant of a past era!
What a pity.

[rip it up]

Craig Clarke's loyalty may well be just a remnant of a past era!
What a pity.

But look at how much respect Clarky has around the league for it. To me money might buy you short term benifits, but it wont buy you good quality CLUB players like Clarky and others in the league.

[zaco]

Just on that i meant in senior level not 18s

[Upwey Fan]

I am with Upwey,whilst we have a good core of Unders we lose some every year to EFL Clubs who pay them as well as supplying all gear etc.In Monbulks case they weren't poached by Silvan but rather by South Belgrave and Belgrave.

[in2restedonlooker]

I'm new to this forum but used to follow the cgfl (yea,alex thornton) a few years ago and have watched a game involving every 2nd divvy team this year. I totally agree with monniehawk about loyalty. I done some research on thornton as i remembered they had a very succesful thirds side. from 1999 - 2004 I think they won 3 flags and lost 2 others ( someone from thornton correct me if wrong) of those sides there are still about 25 of those players still there. And after digging deeper unbelievably I found that of there 57 players listed in the record 40 of them had played thirds for thornton as well as 10 of their current thirds list having played seniors as well. That's 50 players of around 75 listed that have or are playing seniors or reserves unbelievable. Now no one can tell me it's a coincidence why they are going very nicely. No unders can significantly hurt a club and you have to wonder where the loyalty has gone not only from the kids but their parents as well.

[pupsta]

I'm new to this forum but used to follow the cgfl (yea,alex thornton) a few years ago and have watched a game involving every 2nd divvy team this year. I totally agree with monniehawk about loyalty. I done some research on thornton as i remembered they had a very succesful thirds side. from 1999 - 2004 I think they won 3 flags and lost 2 others ( someone from thornton correct me if wrong) of those sides there are still about 25 of those players still there. And after digging deeper unbelievably I found that of there 57 players listed in the record 40 of them had played thirds for thornton as well as 10 of their current thirds list having played seniors as well. That's 50 players of around 75 listed that have or are playing seniors or reserves unbelievable. Now no one can tell me it's a coincidence why they are going very nicely. No unders can significantly hurt a club and you have to wonder where the loyalty has gone not only from the kids but their parents as well.

youve done your research. yes last years grand final side had all but 4 players not come through our thirds and at this stage i think its about 5 this year. shows we have a lot of loyalty especially when the majority now live in melbourne.

last year we had 8 thirds debut in the seniors including one in our gf side and 3 in our 2's semi final side. this year we have already played 8 of them with 2 being regulars. our 3rds train with us which i think helps the club bond and the boys are always willing and cant wait when asked to fill in with us.

[in2restedonlooker]

That's very good for the club but i'm interested because the thirds don't seem to be travelling to well but you have 10 players that have played seniors, it doesn't make alot of sense to me. If thornton were to win this year and go in divvy 1 would they consider paying 18's to strengthen them up???

[rosy3]

I done some research on thornton as i remembered they had a very succesful thirds side. from 1999 - 2004 I think they won 3 flags and lost 2 others ( someone from thornton correct me if wrong) .

They were runners up in Under 14s and Under 17s grand finals before winning back to back Under 17 flags.

[in2restedonlooker]

Yeh I thought they had a very good era then. It's good to see so many still there maybe some kids from down here over the hill could have alook and realise thats what footy clubs are all about not being paid. What happens to the top age kids at silvan if they have a very strong side again next year do they go back to junction or play 2's??????? It doesn't make sense to me

[Catzz]

l think all this talk on Silvan paying 18s is a whole lot of crap, we at Silvan give the boys a pair of boots, shorts & socks as we have for the past 6 years or so.
We have a very good coach who has worked hard to bring players with his son from down the mountain. Most of the players from other clubs in the valley have come to us through mates, Silvan hasnt been out there chasing these kids with loads of cash.
Most of the side this year played at Silvan last year.

l think people like to knock Silvan but really they should be working towards making there own club better.
lt wasnt that long ago that Silvan was struggling in 2nd division.

Cheers.

[Blue Tongue]

I am with Upwey,whilst we have a good core of Unders we lose some every year to EFL Clubs who pay them as well as supplying all gear etc.In Monbulks case they weren't poached by Silvan but rather by South Belgrave and Belgrave.

Poached - be interested to know your definition on that one? Does going and choosing to play with your mates from school who happen to play for another club classify as being poached? Do Upwey consider the players they have got over the years from other clubs ie Belgrave & South Belgrave who choose to go play there as being poached players? If a club offers all new players, including those who came from their junior club, free socks & shorts is that paying a kid? Or if the club changes uniform, or leagues and their less financially successful players (ie apprentices, students) a uniform to assist in some of the costs of playing football is that poaching? What about offering discounted fees for these same less financially successful people - is that poaching? Does any other club have differnt fees for under 18's, students and apprentices as oppossed to the rest of the playing group (I think they call this concession rates)

What about having people involved at interleague or Eastern Ranges level and telling kids to leave their current club (where they are happy & are playing with mates), as they are only a 2nd divi club, or not well run and the standard is no good for them to make it in the big world of AFL - is that poaching? Maybe insider trading? Should we get in the legal teams & claim that any profits a club, that isn't 100% full of home grown tallent, made in a year where they had players from other clubs in the side should be reimbursed to the club the player left? Plus interest. I reckon some of the struggling clubs would be gold mines now!

And I doubt the 2 clubs your referred - Belgrave & South Belgrave - have gone and poached (as in are paying them to play) these players - its all swings and round abouts. Kids are kids, and more often than not play with mates - where ever that maybe!

[Upwey Fan]

The fact of the matter is EFL are taking our good kids and paying them-we lost two of our top age Under 16's to Micham who as well as supplying free gear are paying them $50.00 per game.As for South Belgrave and Belgrave this is what we were told by the Monbulk Unders coach when he rang to inform us that they were pulling out of the competition this year.As far as membership fees we always have and always will offer Concessions to our non working Juniors as opposed to our players who are employed nothing wrong with this.

[Blue Tongue]

The fact of the matter is EFL are taking our good kids and paying them-we lost two of our top age Under 16's to Micham who as well as supplying free gear are paying them $50.00 per game. As for South Belgrave and Belgrave this is what we were told by the Monbulk Unders coach when he rang to inform us that they were pulling out of the competition this year. As far as membership fees we always have and always will offer Concessions to our non working Juniors as opposed to our players who are employed nothing wrong with this.

And the YVMDFL will probably continue to loose juniors to the EFL - particulary the bigger clubs. Its a fact of life - maybe its the parents 'suggesting' they go there. Maybe its cos they can do a bit of shopping on the way home on a Saturday afternoon cos they play in the 'burbs :rolleyes:

South Belgrave had the captain from last years under 16's, who was a league B & F choose to play under 18's at East Ringwood this year. Still lives in the area, obviously has to travel to East Ringwood to train, yet chose that as its a better standard of football - and South Belgrave are in the EFL now anyway.

[in2restedonlooker]

I have to agree upwey fan. I can't see the sense in it. Even if you wanted to stand out to try and get into eastern or wherever ther have been plenty of good players come out of the Yarra Valley. To me leaving divvy 1 yvmdfl and going to division 3 efl isn't an overly positive move in my opinion. And I haven't heard of any players getting pressured to leave their home club by tac cup sides I think this is the last thing they want to do as they are settled and happy at their home clubs and a change at that stage could do more harm than good. I'm sure selectors would like to see young guys playing 1s in divvy 1 yvmdfl than 18s in divv 3 efl.

[NOCHANCE]

l think all this talk on Silvan paying 18s is a whole lot of crap, we at Silvan give the boys a pair of boots, shorts & socks as we have for the past 6 years or so.
We have a very good coach who has worked hard to bring players with his son from down the mountain. Most of the players from other clubs in the valley have come to us through mates, Silvan hasnt been out there chasing these kids with loads of cash.
Most of the side this year played at Silvan last year.

l think people like to knock Silvan but really they should be working towards making there own club better.
lt wasnt that long ago that Silvan was struggling in 2nd division.

Cheers.

Please dont insult our intelligence. :eek::eek::eek:

[Ronison]

Belgrave has not charged it's under 18's kids a membership fee for quite a few years now, and we supply all senior players with there jumpers. The only thing our players pay for are boots, socks and shorts (there are senior membership fees).
As far as the players that came to us from Monbulk go, some of them had played junior footy there and were looking to go back, but once they didn't have the numbers to field a side they returned to where they played LAST YEAR and brought a couple of mates.

[Cat Lover]

Yes it's true, Silvan pays every player $200 a game in the under 18's which amounts to $4k a week and $80k a year! What nonsense, no player receives payment, the club distributes shorts, socks, free membership and a rebate on the purchase of footy boots. While it may come at a cost to the club it has seen us develop the following 2007 premiership players all under 21, Dean Carswell, Adam Dale, Kit Dale, Sam Coen, Chris Webb, Andrew Preston, Jake Straughair. Thats a third of the side all still at the club and all home grown from our 18's. Gee our system just doesn't seem to be working.

[in2restedonlooker]

Yes it's true, Silvan pays every player $200 a game in the under 18's which amounts to $4k a week and $80k a year! What nonsense, no player receives payment, the club distributes shorts, socks, free membership and a rebate on the purchase of footy boots. While it may come at a cost to the club it has seen us develop the following 2007 premiership players all under 21, Dean Carswell, Adam Dale, Kit Dale, Sam Coen, Chris Webb, Andrew Preston, Jake Straughair. Thats a third of the side all still at the club and all home grown from our 18's. Gee our system just doesn't seem to be working.

I would have thought that 7 is not a great number. I f you have a look at thornton I believe there were 16-17 who played in premiership had come through thirds. On this years list there are 40 out of about 55 players in the record who have come through the thirds and 10 of the current under 18's have played senior football now that's a good system

[rip it up]

Yes it's true, Silvan pays every player $200 a game in the under 18's which amounts to $4k a week and $80k a year! What nonsense, no player receives payment, the club distributes shorts, socks, free membership and a rebate on the purchase of footy boots. While it may come at a cost to the club it has seen us develop the following 2007 premiership players all under 21, Dean Carswell, Adam Dale, Kit Dale, Sam Coen, Chris Webb, Andrew Preston, Jake Straughair. Thats a third of the side all still at the club and all home grown from our 18's. Gee our system just doesn't seem to be working.

Ha ha whoopy doo 7 home grown players congratulations to Silvan. By the way Sam Coen got dropped for the Grand Final after every game in the side during the season :rolleyes:

[auskickrules]

I really don't think Silvan has been helped by the statement of 7 homegrown players in the seniors!

[rip it up]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA CatLover im still in hysterics. Should rename yourself to 7 Heaven.

[NOCHANCE]

Yes it's true, Silvan pays every player $200 a game in the under 18's which amounts to $4k a week and $80k a year! What nonsense, no player receives payment, the club distributes shorts, socks, free membership and a rebate on the purchase of footy boots. While it may come at a cost to the club it has seen us develop the following 2007 premiership players all under 21, Dean Carswell, Adam Dale, Kit Dale, Sam Coen, Chris Webb, Andrew Preston, Jake Straughair. Thats a third of the side all still at the club and all home grown from our 18's. Gee our system just doesn't seem to be working.

Oh Cat Lover you really did just dig a hole for yourself didnt you? It would be fair to say that all other clubs in the YVMDFL would work on the ratio of 75% locals on there entire list. You are are happy with 33% in your seniors so clearly your system doesnt work. Please dont use the excuse that you need to poach juniors from other clubs because while you may survive while the moneys there the local clubs you steal them fom may not.

[dom_105]

Incidentally, since Silvan does not field sides in the DRJFL, does that make 100% of their U/18's poached?

[NOCHANCE]

Incidentally, since Silvan does not field sides in the DRJFL, does that make 100% of their U/18's poached?


Not necessarily if they have ties or links to the club. Poaching is for example when your own team has a bye so you go down the road to watch lets say Seville. After the game you then approach juniors of that club offering money while enjoying the hospitality of there club. Thats poaching!!:)

[chaddles]

Oh Cat Lover you really did just dig a hole for yourself didnt you? It would be fair to say that all other clubs in the YVMDFL would work on the ratio of 75% locals on there entire list. You are are happy with 33% in your seniors so clearly your system doesnt work. Please dont use the excuse that you need to poach juniors from other clubs because while you may survive while the moneys there the local clubs you steal them fom may not.

75 % of your total list would be a bare minimum - especially with the PPS in, the clubs with the strongest junior system will become the powerhouse clubs (with proper mgt) within the next 5+ years. This is where Silvan are a bit worried about their junior base.

FWIW country footy is 10 fold the experience of most metro comps, have played country Vic and NSW, Melbo and Canberra - as a player there is not greater feeling than playing country footy - especially in front of a big country crowd. The social side is fantastic especially with the functions - god bless netballers!! If I was a junior with a good YVMDFL club I would be sticking around for as long as I could, as long as your enjoying the club and your footy - if you are any good, you will get noticed.

I watched Upwey on the weekend and ANZAC day earlier in the year, and even as a spectator it is a very enjoyable atmosphere which is why I am considering playing up there next season - I really miss the country footy and I am sure that a lot of people would agree.

[Cat Lover]

You seem to know alot about poaching NOCHANCE! Well rather than make rash statements accusing our club, name an under 18 player who has been poached by our club. Also, my post highlighted players under 21 who came through our under 18's, not LOCALS! Exactly what does constitute a local player? How many years does a player need to play at a club before he is seen as a local? I think i have worked out who NOCHANCE is and if it is Humper, maybe you should grow some of those things most blokes have downstairs and rather than be the big 2nd's hero step up and do something for your club when it struggles and play in the 1's. And with that said, and if it is you, please dont throw stones in glasshouses.

[Monniehawk]

This thread is probably getting a bit boring by now with the Silvan bashing. Get over it guys. How many would show Webby the door if he fronted up??!
However, as a Monbulk boy, I have watched the debate on the Unders with some interest. Our kids weren't 'poached' in the usual sense; we lost them for a number of reasons and that will make it hard to rebuild. The club is already making plans to ensure we keep our kids in future. We just took our eye off the ball for a minute in a pond full of piranhas.
Many clubs actually pay their u18's in 'kind' - with gear, free membership, awards, etc and have done for years. They feel they have to. Now, so does Monbulk! It is starting to look like we are buying our own babies from each other! If we have to do the same as other clubs, so be it. The EFL has always lured our kids away with the promise of 'better' football and match payments. I had to fight off three of them to keep my own boy at Moores Rd when he was 16. There's no rocket science needed in turning a teenage kid's head. Question? What do EFL clubs do with their own kids when they are shunted out by the imports?
It would be good if Football Victoria had a policy to protect local clubs from this poaching, but like the top div EFL clubs, they are more concerned with the elite.
We're all on our own.

[NOCHANCE]

You seem to know alot about poaching NOCHANCE! Well rather than make rash statements accusing our club, name an under 18 player who has been poached by our club. Also, my post highlighted players under 21 who came through our under 18's, not LOCALS! Exactly what does constitute a local player? How many years does a player need to play at a club before he is seen as a local? I think i have worked out who NOCHANCE is and if it is Humper, maybe you should grow some of those things most blokes have downstairs and rather than be the big 2nd's hero step up and do something for your club when it struggles and play in the 1's. And with that said, and if it is you, please dont throw stones in glasshouses.

Nice personal work there Catlover I will pass on your thoughts to Humper next time I see him or maybe you can do it yourself in the next time you play them. Im sure he will look forward to chatting with you.:)