BF - Guilty As Charged?

[Snag Breac]

Players cop a blogging

Mark Robinson | May 21, 2008 12:00am

AFL players have been banned from scouring fan websites, for fear the vicious player appraisals could lead to depression.
At one club, support staff also have been threatened with the sack if they are caught blogging or leaking valuable information to the websites.
Labelled "cyber bullying" and "big brother" blogging by the AFL Players' Association, clubs have taken the drastic step of encouraging a boycott of the popular fan sites.
"I wouldn't encourage any players to use them. I think it's for bloggers, and I think it's mostly for titillation rather any decent feedback," AFLPA general manager of psychology, people and culture, Pippa Grange said yesterday.
"It's more your big brother-type trivia.
"I would agree with coaches telling players not to look, but I would also encourage the players not to think of it in any way as criticism - it's just a random sample of people with not much better to do."
Most football clubs have independent supporter websites, including Saintsational, TalkingCarlton, Demonology, Punt Road End, Nick's Collingwood Page and and Bomberblitz.
One of the most popular is BigFooty.
On them, anonymous bloggers ritually attack players for their performances, and the criticisms sometimes carry racial and sexual overtones.
One coach, who did not want to draw attention to his players, yesterday said: "They get real nasty."
The coach said he was aware of one player receiving "particularly scathing" criticism and he had approached the player and asked if he was aware of it.
"Thankfully, he said it didn't matter because he didn't read it, but bloody oath, it could affect the player," the coach said. "It's a serious issue, a major issue.
"Even if one player gets depression, or his form falls away, it could end his career."
One club official last night confirmed the coach had directed some of his players to stop reading sites.
"Yes, we have suggested to some players they avoid online fan sites," the official said.
A football manager from another club said he had addressed the issue with the players.
He also revealed he had warned support staff that if they leaked information to websites, or people knowingly connected to the websites, they would be sacked.
"We have said, 'Whatever you know is not to be passed on to people outside the club'," he said.
He said players had to avoid any scathing critiques.
"It's like critical fan mail, it could do your head in, and it's the same thing with websites.
"You should read some of it, it's rubbish.
"You've got to understand the ego of players and fragility comes with that as well."
Grange yesterday said AFL footballers were in the "culture of celebrities".
"And there's a lot of nasty stuff out there," she said.
She likens it to cyber bullying at schools, where there are alarming cases of bullying bringing on forms of depression and even attempted suicide.
"There's no restriction of what people are able to do with the internet," Grange said.
"Blogging on websites about players is a form of bullying, it's public bullying of people in celebrity positions.
"And the footy players, unless they personally take some course of investigation, have got absolutely no comeback."
Grange said public criticism of players had been addressed, although cyber criticism hadn't specifically been on the agenda.
"We talk to the players about building resilience about feedback and what they need to let through to the keeper, and what's actually value for them and how they make a choice about each," she said.
"We don't specifically focus on websites, but that's going to happen with our digital lifestyle at the minute."
More serious, she said, were players' identities being taken by bloggers.
"The biggest thing I've encountered in my role where it's been a problem is where people take the identity of the player and claim to be making comments on behalf of the player," she said.
"They get obviously quite upset about that."
---------------------------------------------
From today's Herald Sun.

So, fellow posters, are we a menace to players?

Hey, Jabso - they've called it blogging too.:p

[beez]

Maybe we should ease up a bit...?


Nahhhhhhhh

[The Dawes]

Slow news day obviously.....

Opinions expressed here are far milder than what you hear at the footy.

[mdc]

lol at repeated misuse of the word blogging

[tess]

Have a look at 99% of the posters and how many of em use a real actual name. I would wanna put my Surname up on Big Footy but I happily post under my First name everywhere, whether it's here, Nicks, EBW or a Valiant forum.

I think Clubs need to develop a relationship with the forums as Collingwood has, I know the Club has full contact details for Nicks and EBW if anything is ever required. I doubt many of the other Clubs would have the same respect for their fan forums to develop a relationship with them and work with them.

I am 120% sure if the Club ever contacted any of our 3 mods here on BF CFC's board the mods would act as the Club requested. These forums are NOT the enemy, these forums are developed out of a Love for AFL and the various Clubs. Last thing the forums wanna do is hurt the players or the Clubs in anyway.

[Frederlick]

Gotta laugh, the AFL and clubs are the biggest bunch of backstabbers out and they are criticising sites like this? They cut players and coaches ruthlessly and then some AFL type gets on and bleats about egos? :D:D:D I note not one of the coaches or officials was willing to be named, bit of a threat to the incestuous little relationship the players and media enjoy at the moment is what freedom of speech is. And cyber bullying? This is from a spokesperson from the same AFL that found that Adam Goodes barrelling in to someones back at mach 5 is not worthy of a suspension or that as a boxer of some repute it is OK for Barry Hall to strike players behind play before the "05 granny? What about real on field thuggery that players are not protected from? Pelease.

AFLPA? Oh yeah they really have player welfare at heart defending the 3 strikes drug policy that saw players like Ben Cousins sink to such depths while they defended the fact that their members should not be held accountable by the very clubs that we as fans finance the existence of! We are truly living in soft headed times when people like Mark Robinson try and sell this as an issue in football. Does anyone actually give a drivel piece like this any credence? Thanks for this post, it reveals just how useless the media really is at reporting what goes on in footy.

[hellfire]

Have a look at 99% of the posters and how many of em use a real actual name. I would wanna put my Surname up on Big Footy but I happily post under my First name everywhere, whether it's here, Nicks, EBW or a Valiant forum.

I think Clubs need to develop a relationship with the forums as Collingwood has, I know the Club has full contact details for Nicks and EBW if anything is ever required. I doubt many of the other Clubs would have the same respect for their fan forums to develop a relationship with them and work with them.

I am 120% sure if the Club ever contacted any of our 3 mods here on BF CFC's board the mods would act as the Club requested. These forums are NOT the enemy, these forums are developed out of a Love for AFL and the various Clubs. Last thing the forums wanna do is hurt the players or the Clubs in anyway.

What is your point re: using real names? Are you suggesting anonymity provides the impetus for public abuse? Because I would happily say everything I say on this board in public, without a "virtual mask" on, as I'm sure most people would. I just don't see the point in using "Matt" as my name here, how bland. Infact, "hellfire" is my old email address that I used on all of my forum accounts, because I couldn't be bothered remembering different names. If I could change it, I would, because this was a year 8 thing (the email address). :D

[SuperDude]

Players cop a blogging

Mark Robinson | May 21, 2008 12:00am

AFL players have been banned from scouring fan websites, for fear the vicious player appraisals could lead to depression.
At one club, support staff also have been threatened with the sack if they are caught blogging or leaking valuable information to the websites.
Labelled "cyber bullying" and "big brother" blogging by the AFL Players' Association, clubs have taken the drastic step of encouraging a boycott of the popular fan sites.
"I wouldn't encourage any players to use them. I think it's for bloggers, and I think it's mostly for titillation rather any decent feedback," AFLPA general manager of psychology, people and culture, Pippa Grange said yesterday.
"It's more your big brother-type trivia.
"I would agree with coaches telling players not to look, but I would also encourage the players not to think of it in any way as criticism - it's just a random sample of people with not much better to do."
Most football clubs have independent supporter websites, including Saintsational, TalkingCarlton, Demonology, Punt Road End, Nick's Collingwood Page and and Bomberblitz.
One of the most popular is BigFooty.
On them, anonymous bloggers ritually attack players for their performances, and the criticisms sometimes carry racial and sexual overtones.
One coach, who did not want to draw attention to his players, yesterday said: "They get real nasty."
The coach said he was aware of one player receiving "particularly scathing" criticism and he had approached the player and asked if he was aware of it.
"Thankfully, he said it didn't matter because he didn't read it, but bloody oath, it could affect the player," the coach said. "It's a serious issue, a major issue.
"Even if one player gets depression, or his form falls away, it could end his career."
One club official last night confirmed the coach had directed some of his players to stop reading sites.
"Yes, we have suggested to some players they avoid online fan sites," the official said.
A football manager from another club said he had addressed the issue with the players.
He also revealed he had warned support staff that if they leaked information to websites, or people knowingly connected to the websites, they would be sacked.
"We have said, 'Whatever you know is not to be passed on to people outside the club'," he said.
He said players had to avoid any scathing critiques.
"It's like critical fan mail, it could do your head in, and it's the same thing with websites.
"You should read some of it, it's rubbish.
"You've got to understand the ego of players and fragility comes with that as well."
Grange yesterday said AFL footballers were in the "culture of celebrities".
"And there's a lot of nasty stuff out there," she said.
She likens it to cyber bullying at schools, where there are alarming cases of bullying bringing on forms of depression and even attempted suicide.
"There's no restriction of what people are able to do with the internet," Grange said.
"Blogging on websites about players is a form of bullying, it's public bullying of people in celebrity positions.
"And the footy players, unless they personally take some course of investigation, have got absolutely no comeback."
Grange said public criticism of players had been addressed, although cyber criticism hadn't specifically been on the agenda.
"We talk to the players about building resilience about feedback and what they need to let through to the keeper, and what's actually value for them and how they make a choice about each," she said.
"We don't specifically focus on websites, but that's going to happen with our digital lifestyle at the minute."
More serious, she said, were players' identities being taken by bloggers.
"The biggest thing I've encountered in my role where it's been a problem is where people take the identity of the player and claim to be making comments on behalf of the player," she said.
"They get obviously quite upset about that."
---------------------------------------------
From today's Herald Sun.

So, fellow posters, are we a menace to players?

Hey, Jabso - they've called it blogging too.:p

Nah It's Robbo have nothing to Write about and he is knocking people who smarter then him:)

[mdc]

btw, I suspect we'll see more and more of these attacks on the evil interwebs from traditional media with time. It's all about protecting your piece of the pie ;)

Also, just as an added note, didn't Mark Robinson hold an internet chat where he openly advocated trading and delisting certain players within the last week?

[Chase the Ace]

I wouldn't want players reading most of the crap that is posted on Big Footy either.

I would estimate negative posts out number positive posts by about 50 to 1.

Why would a coach want his players reading stuff like that.

Not usually a fan of Robbo, but in this instance I think he is correct.

[SuperDude]

I wouldn't want players reading most of the crap that is posted on Big Footy either.

I would estimate negative posts out number positive posts by about 50 to 1.

Why would a coach want his players reading stuff like that.

Not usually a fan of Robbo, but in this instance I think he is correct.

Plus the Player should not worry what fans think, They should be concerned on how they play

[mdc]

I wouldn't want players reading most of the crap that is posted on Big Footy either.

I would estimate negative posts out number positive posts by about 50 to 1.

Why would a coach want his players reading stuff like that.

Not usually a fan of Robbo, but in this instance I think he is correct.

Rubbish, especially on team boards it tends to be very buddy-buddy. Sure, opposition supporters give each other shit, but that happens at the football as well, and to a worse degree.

The level of football analysis on BigFooty certainly outweighs anything you'll find in the paper.

[Frederlick]

Have a look at 99% of the posters and how many of em use a real actual name. I would wanna put my Surname up on Big Footy but I happily post under my First name everywhere, whether it's here, Nicks, EBW or a Valiant forum.

I think Clubs need to develop a relationship with the forums as Collingwood has, I know the Club has full contact details for Nicks and EBW if anything is ever required. I doubt many of the other Clubs would have the same respect for their fan forums to develop a relationship with them and work with them.

I am 120% sure if the Club ever contacted any of our 3 mods here on BF CFC's board the mods would act as the Club requested. These forums are NOT the enemy, these forums are developed out of a Love for AFL and the various Clubs. Last thing the forums wanna do is hurt the players or the Clubs in anyway.
:confused: It would be highly unethical of the Mods to give any details of posters for any reason other than if they broke the law (such as using the names of the drug players last year). Whilst many of us have been guilty of some poor posts, by and large it is idle chit chat about footy, and many of the topics would be exactly the same as discussed behind closed doors at clubs (ie player form etc). The Mods do a good job of controlling the more passionate of us, so why would a Club make a 'request', as you put it?None of us on here are being paid to put forward our points of view in public, nor does this site claim to be a source of news, it is a discussion site, so there is no reason our names should be public knowledge so that they can be subject to censorship. Would you put 'guards' in the crowd at the footy so that if someone called Goodes a thug they had to answer to the AFL?

Tell me you are not saying that because someone, for example, posted a very critical piece of inside information on here that you believe BF would reveal their personal details to The Club so they could pursue the leak? I don't believe you are, but the tone of your post implys that you believe some sites would be willing to do that. If they did they would very rapidly break any trust they had with their customers (us) and quite possibly be liable for legal action for breach of privacy. Please assure us, Mods, that our identities are safe from being revealed for any reason other than if we broke court orders on here?

[Chase the Ace]

Rubbish, especially on team boards it tends to be very buddy-buddy. Sure, opposition supporters give each other shit, but that happens at the football as well, and to a worse degree.

The level of football analysis on BigFooty certainly outweighs anything you'll find in the paper.

Rubbish back at ya.
Come here after a loss and see what its like.
BF Footy analysis: Player x is good. No he's crap. No he's not. Yes he is.

[mdc]

Rubbish back at ya.
Come here after a loss and see what its like.
BF Footy analysis: Player x is good. No he's crap. No he's not. Yes he is.

If you want to focus on the usual collection of hysterical thread starters and repeat whingers, that's your prerogative. There's lots of good posters on this board, and BF in general.

[SuperDude]

If you want to focus on the usual collection of hysterical thread starters and repeat whingers, that's your prerogative. There's lots of good posters on this board, and BF in general.
Just who you think are the Good Posters and Who are just idiots

[tess]

:confused: It would be highly unethical of the Mods to give any details of posters for any reason other than if they broke the law (such as using the names of the drug players last year).


Your taking me the wrong way, I mean if the Club asked for a Post or thread to be removed I assume and to be honest would expect it would be. I would not expect any personal details would ever be passed on to anyone apart from the Police.


What is your point re: using real names? Are you suggesting anonymity provides the impetus for public abuse? Because I would happily say everything I say on this board in public, without a "virtual mask" on, as I'm sure most people would. I just don't see the point in using "Matt" as my name here, how bland. Infact, "hellfire" is my old email address that I used on all of my forum accounts, because I couldn't be bothered remembering different names. If I could change it, I would, because this was a year 8 thing (the email address)

Matt I believe many other members of forums change their user names all the time, just ask. But I have seen on Nicks admittedly where people just add their real name to their Sig, like I said I really think we are different at Collingwood. We could all meet up without a drama because the Club comes first, a lot of people know me by sight and I know heaps of others from the BB's.

[Chase the Ace]

If you want to focus on the usual collection of hysterical thread starters and repeat whingers, that's your prerogative. There's lots of good posters on this board, and BF in general.

So you agree with me then.

See we got there in the end, didn't we?

[Timmy from Thomastown]

If I were Josh Fraser, Nick Maxwell, Rhyce Shaw, Ben Johnson, Shane O'Bree, or Alan Toovey, I wouldnt want to read this board.

[Jabso]

Have a look at 99% of the posters and how many of em use a real actual name. I would wanna put my Surname up on Big Footy but I happily post under my First name everywhere, whether it's here, Nicks, EBW or a Valiant forum.

I think Clubs need to develop a relationship with the forums as Collingwood has, I know the Club has full contact details for Nicks and EBW if anything is ever required. I doubt many of the other Clubs would have the same respect for their fan forums to develop a relationship with them and work with them.

I am 120% sure if the Club ever contacted any of our 3 mods here on BF CFC's board the mods would act as the Club requested. These forums are NOT the enemy, these forums are developed out of a Love for AFL and the various Clubs. Last thing the forums wanna do is hurt the players or the Clubs in anyway.

I can tell you that I have never received any contact from the club personally. However I think Collingwood is wise to avoid possible barbs or sabotage from other supporters.

[mdc]

So you agree with me then.

See we got there in the end, didn't we?

BigFooty has an ignore feature. If you're so unable to ignore the negative posters that it feels like "50 to 1" to you, I suggest taking advantage of that feature.

[anti.]

imagine if guy richards read BF....

[Chase the Ace]

BigFooty has an ignore feature. If you're so unable to ignore the negative posters that it feels like "50 to 1" to you, I suggest taking advantage of that feature.

Thank you, I am well aware of BF features.
However, once again you miss the point, while inadvertently agreeing with me, again.

[tess]

I can tell you that I have never received any contact from the club personally. However I think Collingwood is wise to avoid possible barbs or sabotage from other supporters.

But if you three did missed something and the Club contacted you, you would do as the Club requested I assume.

[tess]

imagine if guy richards read BF....

Well Benny Cousins did and look at what happened to him.....

While Chrissy Judd didn't and look where he is .......

[Hoggy]

Have a look at 99% of the posters and how many of em use a real actual name. I would wanna put my Surname up on Big Footy but I happily post under my First name everywhere, whether it's here, Nicks, EBW or a Valiant forum.

Not alone, everyone calls me Hoggy, pretty obvious why given I dare say most of you would be able to figure out my surname from my user name.

[Frederlick]

Your taking me the wrong way, I mean if the Club asked for a Post or thread to be removed I assume and to be honest would expect it would be. I would not expect any personal details would ever be passed on to anyone apart from the Police.


Matt I believe many other members of forums change their user names all the time, just ask. But I have seen on Nicks admittedly where people just add their real name to their Sig, like I said I really think we are different at Collingwood. We could all meet up without a drama because the Club comes first, a lot of people know me by sight and I know heaps of others from the BB's.

Ok, but I still don't agree that mods should delete posts just because a footy club doesn't like them. There is enough censorship in footy without it spreading on here. Mods are generally fair in stopping malicious posts and we all know the BS posts from a mile away anyway.

[hellfire]

Matt I believe many other members of forums change their user names all the time, just ask. But I have seen on Nicks admittedly where people just add their real name to their Sig, like I said I really think we are different at Collingwood. We could all meet up without a drama because the Club comes first, a lot of people know me by sight and I know heaps of others from the BB's.

Of course. Many people know me by sight too, I played in the inter-forum matches. But I'm just saying, I don't think it really matters what people call themselves online - it's basically an opportunity to call ourselves whatever we want, rather than what we've been burdened with. :D

[Jabso]

But if you three did missed something and the Club contacted you, you would do as the Club requested I assume.

I don't know. It depends. If they want to get involved in some way then yes I'd love them to. I doubt they will, but if they tell us to delete any negative opinions then we can't really do that.

People who post under anonymous names (i.e. most of us) are mostly only doing it because they don't want absolute idiots to stalk them if they get on the wrong side of them. You only have to look at what Colin Wisbey has copped (if you don't know don't bother asking). I'm not doing it because if I write something bad about Matthew Lloyd with my real name next to it Lloyd is going to kneecap me or confront me in any way.

I find it very hypocritical when the media treats such sites with such contempt when they read the sites to canvas how most feel about a particular subject or player and then put it in their articles. People like Chip Le Grand ripped a rumour about Tarrant's whereabouts from Nick's with no credit at all. The rumour was bullshit in the first place and he has the nerves to copy the story from the web as a story. I also find it hypocritical of SEN who mock such sites and posters when their talk back callers are exactly the same, they only give their first name. Also SEN carry so many rumors from bigfooty that are absolute crap it's not funny. They give a lot of crap more credence than the actual site does.

For the HS and Robbo to write an article with a pic of a silhouette of a morbidly obese person on a computer making posters look evil and then further heightening the situation by printing phone numbers of a suicide hotline is an absolute joke.

[tess]

I don't mean generic negative comments..... I mean something you or us posters would normally pick up.

Maybe now would be a good time to have that BF CFC get together.

[Snag Breac]

I wouldn't want players reading most of the crap that is posted on Big Footy either.

I would estimate negative posts out number positive posts by about 50 to 1.

Why would a coach want his players reading stuff like that.

Not usually a fan of Robbo, but in this instance I think he is correct.

Don't know about the rest of BF, but surely this can't be true of our boards? What of the vatic threads such as ScottyD's Marty Clarke and Kevin Dyas Clubs? Those two alone account for over 1,000 hyperbolic posts. And then there's the Buddy Board - No pressure, Just Pure Support.

There will always be negative posts - part of the spirit of debate - but habitually negative posters are invariably confronted by posters arguing for the defence.

And yes, some players have been ruthlessly and often unfairly dealt with here. I'd hate those lads, or anyone who cares about, them to read the darker comments.

[Hoggy]

BTW look at the many suburban leagues forums, this isn't exactly just AFL players that cop crap here.

And Mark Robinson, find something else to write about, you're a hack, deal with it.

[Chase the Ace]

Not alone, everyone calls me Hoggy, pretty obvious why given I dare say most of you would be able to figure out my surname from my user name.

Pig?
Joking Hoggy, just joking

[Somebody]

If I were Josh Fraser, Nick Maxwell, Rhyce Shaw, Ben Johnson, Shane O'Bree, or Alan Toovey, I wouldnt want to read this board.
also Egan stanley, Cook. the last 2 not quite as insulted and abused, but repeatedly said to be not good enough and never will be. These sort of players if they read this garbage, should console themselves with realization that Leon, didak, Medders and Rocca (and other good players I'm sure) were all similarly abused many times.

[OniAu]

its ironic, a journalist going on about how the forums arent good for a players mindset, yet hes the type of journalist spinning out articles about players form and not being up to afl standard.

pot calling the kettle black, and anyway sure you get the negative posts on here.

not everyone logs on forums to be a negative poster,for me i log on here because its an ok source to get opinions on some of our younger players on our list that arent shown every week. there is for sure people who come on here to bag anything and everything in site though, which is sad.

journalists on the other hand use the excuse "its their job" to bag the crap out of afl players and everything else in general. paid or unpaid for criticising, it isnt acceptable, you cant stop it though, thats life.

[tess]

So I must be in elite company the article mentions pies players being barred from Nicks, well I think I can sit comfortably in that company thank you very much!

Bring on round 11..... ;)

[goalpie]

Have a look at 99% of the posters and how many of em use a real actual name. I would wanna put my Surname up on Big Footy but I happily post under my First name everywhere, whether it's here, Nicks, EBW or a Valiant forum.

I think Clubs need to develop a relationship with the forums as Collingwood has, I know the Club has full contact details for Nicks and EBW if anything is ever required. I doubt many of the other Clubs would have the same respect for their fan forums to develop a relationship with them and work with them.

I am 120% sure if the Club ever contacted any of our 3 mods here on BF CFC's board the mods would act as the Club requested. These forums are NOT the enemy, these forums are developed out of a Love for AFL and the various Clubs. Last thing the forums wanna do is hurt the players or the Clubs in anyway.

So what are you saying, that Collingwood officials are dictators and as for Nicks, is it wise to have personal information on 13 year olds. :rolleyes:

[sirlothie]

So I must be in elite company the article mentions pies players being barred from Nicks, well I think I can sit comfortably in that company thank you very much!

Bring on round 11..... ;)

Don't know if you'd be our best representative on SEN to be honest... :o

[Chase the Ace]

So if a person posts under their real name, it makes what they are saying more justifiable and with more integrity than someone who posts under an alias.
Could I suggest this board is a fairly good example of why that may not be true.

[pendles]

Players cop a blogging

Mark Robinson | May 21, 2008 12:00am

AFL players have been banned from scouring fan websites, for fear the vicious player appraisals could lead to depression.
At one club, support staff also have been threatened with the sack if they are caught blogging or leaking valuable information to the websites.
Labelled "cyber bullying" and "big brother" blogging by the AFL Players' Association, clubs have taken the drastic step of encouraging a boycott of the popular fan sites.
"I wouldn't encourage any players to use them. I think it's for bloggers, and I think it's mostly for titillation rather any decent feedback," AFLPA general manager of psychology, people and culture, Pippa Grange said yesterday.
"It's more your big brother-type trivia.
"I would agree with coaches telling players not to look, but I would also encourage the players not to think of it in any way as criticism - it's just a random sample of people with not much better to do."
Most football clubs have independent supporter websites, including Saintsational, TalkingCarlton, Demonology, Punt Road End, Nick's Collingwood Page and and Bomberblitz.
One of the most popular is BigFooty.
On them, anonymous bloggers ritually attack players for their performances, and the criticisms sometimes carry racial and sexual overtones.
One coach, who did not want to draw attention to his players, yesterday said: "They get real nasty."
The coach said he was aware of one player receiving "particularly scathing" criticism and he had approached the player and asked if he was aware of it.
"Thankfully, he said it didn't matter because he didn't read it, but bloody oath, it could affect the player," the coach said. "It's a serious issue, a major issue.
"Even if one player gets depression, or his form falls away, it could end his career."
One club official last night confirmed the coach had directed some of his players to stop reading sites.
"Yes, we have suggested to some players they avoid online fan sites," the official said.
A football manager from another club said he had addressed the issue with the players.
He also revealed he had warned support staff that if they leaked information to websites, or people knowingly connected to the websites, they would be sacked.
"We have said, 'Whatever you know is not to be passed on to people outside the club'," he said.
He said players had to avoid any scathing critiques.
"It's like critical fan mail, it could do your head in, and it's the same thing with websites.
"You should read some of it, it's rubbish.
"You've got to understand the ego of players and fragility comes with that as well."
Grange yesterday said AFL footballers were in the "culture of celebrities".
"And there's a lot of nasty stuff out there," she said.
She likens it to cyber bullying at schools, where there are alarming cases of bullying bringing on forms of depression and even attempted suicide.
"There's no restriction of what people are able to do with the internet," Grange said.
"Blogging on websites about players is a form of bullying, it's public bullying of people in celebrity positions.
"And the footy players, unless they personally take some course of investigation, have got absolutely no comeback."
Grange said public criticism of players had been addressed, although cyber criticism hadn't specifically been on the agenda.
"We talk to the players about building resilience about feedback and what they need to let through to the keeper, and what's actually value for them and how they make a choice about each," she said.
"We don't specifically focus on websites, but that's going to happen with our digital lifestyle at the minute."
More serious, she said, were players' identities being taken by bloggers.
"The biggest thing I've encountered in my role where it's been a problem is where people take the identity of the player and claim to be making comments on behalf of the player," she said.
"They get obviously quite upset about that."
---------------------------------------------
From today's Herald Sun.

So, fellow posters, are we a menace to players?

Hey, Jabso - they've called it blogging too.:p

The attacks on Brett Deledio's sexuality have bordered on harassment.

[thatday]

I don't think we're that bad. I'll admit, I have my moments when I post some things about players that are pretty bad, but, normally we are talking up our players on here. Well, most of them, obviously there are a couple of players who really should stay away.

[Magnus the Magpie]

I wouldn't want players reading most of the crap that is posted on Big Footy either.

I would estimate negative posts out number positive posts by about 50 to 1.

Why would a coach want his players reading stuff like that.

Not usually a fan of Robbo, but in this instance I think he is correct.

Why estimate? Do what Mark Robinson (and most other of our 'expert' footy scribblers) seem incapable of and do some simple research.

e.g. check out the R. Shaw focussed thread at: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=445125 (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=445125). My analysis of this thread is that 16 posters were (very) pro-Rhyce, 3 were -ve and 9 were neutral or addressed some tangential (but relevant) issue. The party that really copped it was the original poster - unfairly in my view.

Like most other things in life, context is everything. If you check out the Board after a loss, you'll naturally find a lot of negative stuff. Leading up to a game though, I suspect the tone is mostly much more positive. In general (your's truly definitely excluded), I think the overall 'tone' of the Board is fairly +ve to our players.

Nice little Web2.0 research project for some unsuspecting grad student here:D.

[The Royal Sampler]

I'm so sick of everything to do with the internet being referred to as "blogging". FFS.

I can't take Mark Robinson's complaints seriously, especially after my idea for allocation of priority draft picks, posted on the main board, mysteriously surfaced as a Herald-Sun reporter's article. Meh.

[beez]

The attacks on Brett Deledio's sexuality have bordered on harassment.

Sure you dont mean Dale Thomas...?

[Frederlick]

BTW look at the many suburban leagues forums, this isn't exactly just AFL players that cop crap here.

And Mark Robinson, find something else to write about, you're a hack, deal with it.
Exactly. Pay me $700 grand a year to play footy for a public club and you lot can write whatever the flock you want about me on here.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Exactly. Pay me $700 grand a year to play footy for a public club and you lot can write whatever the flock you want about me on here.

What a load of bollocks

[tess]

So what are you saying, that Collingwood officials are dictators and as for Nicks, is it wise to have personal information on 13 year olds. :rolleyes:


No but any of the fan sites would I assume react positively to the Club they support asking for post X,Y or Z to be removed. The mods work their rrrssses off making sure nothing too personal or defamatory gets posted or stays up, but at times things slip through. The fan sites are just that FAN sites, they wouldn't wanna hurt their Club.

[Frederlick]

What a load of bollocks
So your saying they are unaccountable to anyone and that the money we give them comes with no strings attached? Naive.

[Kirk Hinrich #12]

Biggest thing to remember Big Footy is for the fans to talk about footy, its just opinions on a game and a club we all love.

If players want to read it the they should but beaware they may not like what they see.

[rand corp]

Big Footy ruined my career -Ben Cousins, I was shattered by their henious allegations

[Timmy from Thomastown]

So your saying they are unaccountable to anyone and that the money we give them comes with no strings attached? Naive.

I'm saying they are paid to pay football so their income is irrlevant. They dont owe you or I anything.

Anomymous posters have a repsonsibility to not get personal or vindictive with their opinions

[pongo_3931]

I certainly wouldn't consider my posts slanderous.

I love posting here because I know this is a place I can seriously discuss footy. In the real world most people just switch off after about a minute.

To that end, I consider the posts I write critical, or analytical, even if Im not a total footy think tank. Heck it would be nice if SOMEONE from the club read this stuff in the hope that they would get some value out of what we're saying. And to that end if any one from the club had an issue with something id written, well my door is always open. I'm should imagine a lot of us feel this way.

And more importantly, if the players read these forums, come out and have a drink with us at the lexus one day will ya's!

Oh oh! And give me a job next year when I graduate!

Thanks for reading :)

P.S: Anth Rocca is welcome to call if he can handle me yelling ROOOOOOOCCCAAAAA! every 15 seconds. Tee hee.

[Pie eyed]

A small minority of uber-negative posters start a disproportionate number of negative threads about their target players and or hijack legitimate threads and focus the attention again on negative discussion about said target players.
I often wonder if these posters are only on the forums to spread their negative views.
I don't give a toss what their opinions are but it does really annoy me how they constantly hijack other posters threads and turn them into a totally irrelevant argument about a different player, situation or topic.

At the end of the day though, despite what anyone else may post you have to keep anchored in the reality that Bigfooty is a fansite populated by some very "different" people and is not really an accurate representation of mainstream population.
I can see why a coach would advise younger players to avoid the "poison pens" as many, not all, struggle with confidence early in their careers.

[Frederlick]

I'm saying they are paid to pay football so their income is irrlevant. They dont owe you or I anything.

Anomymous posters have a repsonsibility to not get personal or vindictive with their opinions
Who said they should become vindictive or personal? As I said I personally would be willing to let people discuss me all day long on here for the sort of money many AFL players earn. It is relavent because if the problem is as bad as was made out then they can always do Nathan Ablett can't they? Or maybe the money isn't as ireleavent as you believe. My point is that unless they were extremely naive they should have realised that when you are making big money from the professional sporting industry you don't really get much choice whether people get to offer an opinion or not. So why bleat on here because for whatever reason you are discussed as a public persona, if (as you claim) they don't owe us, then we sure as hell don't owe them squat either, other than to pay our $16.00, watch the game and yell and scream, right? I don't think so, but that seems to be your opinion so you are entitled to it.

Is saying player Y is gay vindictive and irrelevant? Probably. Is saying player X is crap vindictive? No, it is part of all that is associated with footy, if every player was good the teams could take it turns to win GFs and forums like this wouldn't exist.

[stui magpie]

Who said they should become vindictive or personal? As I said I personally would be willing to let people discuss me all day long on here for the sort of money many AFL players earn. It is relavent because if the problem is as bad as was made out then they can always do Nathan Ablett can't they? Or maybe the money isn't as ireleavent as you believe. My point is that unless they were extremely naive they should have realised that when you are making big money from the professional sporting industry you don't really get much choice whether people get to offer an opinion or not. So why bleat on here because for whatever reason you are discussed as a public persona, if (as you claim) they don't owe us, then we sure as hell don't owe them squat either, other than to pay our $16.00, watch the game and yell and scream, right? I don't think so, but that seems to be your opinion so you are entitled to it.

Is saying player Y is gay vindictive and irrelevant? Probably. Is saying player X is crap vindictive? No, it is part of all that is associated with footy, if every player was good the teams could take it turns to win GFs and forums like this wouldn't exist.

Yeah but the bit you miss is that saying player X is crap is generally wrong. If they were crap they wouldn't be on an AFL list in the first place. They may not be up to AFL standard or living up to their pre draft hype, but that doesn't make them crap.

The biggest "dud" on any clubs list is still a better footballer than 99% of forum posters.

[mdc]

Yeah but the bit you miss is that saying player X is crap is generally wrong. If they were crap they wouldn't be on an AFL list in the first place. They may not be up to AFL standard or living up to their pre draft hype, but that doesn't make them crap.

The biggest "dud" on any clubs list is still a better footballer than 99% of forum posters.

That's a completely false argument though.

Does an art critic have to be a better artist than those he critiques? Of course not.

There's this weird notion that somehow there's a very strong correlation between football talent and football knowledge/understanding, and it's just not the case.

[Pie eyed]

That's a completely false argument though.

Does an art critic have to be a better artist than those he critiques? Of course not.

There's this weird notion that somehow there's a very strong correlation between football talent and football knowledge/understanding, and it's just not the case.


Firstly,your as to art critics. Art critics are just that, critics.
They are invariably people who have spent a significant amount of time being "educated" by more senior art critics as to how to think, how to evaluate a peice of art or artist and even indoctrinated into believing they can somehow know what the artist was thinking or trying to convey through his/her art.
Incredibly few art critics are successful artist and even fewer successful artists are art critics.

As to the talent knowledge versus football knowledge you have a valid argument.
But you neglected to mention that there is absolutely no correlation between someone's actual football knowledge and their own estimation of their football knowledge.
Just because a poster hold firmly to an opinion does not make it fact.

I played junior and senior Aussie rules for 25 years and I do not pretend for one second to understand the intricacies of AFL level football from either a coach's or players point of view.
As a matter of fact I doubt that the bulk of even former AFL players from a decade ago would find it easy given the rapid changes in the game.
A player like Nick Maxwell (only for example) finds himself in a completely different set of situations, on and off field, than a player like Dennis Banks did.

Those outside of Bigfooty would probably think it is a big meeting of like-minded people to discuss relevant topics about football and their favored club, which is more often than not the case. Sometimes, in fact, a single discussion could involve a 14 yo old girl (and you are absolutely welcome), a 45 year old ex-player, a 26 yo drunk uni student, a Carlton supporter in disguise, a dozen others and a person intent on nothing but stirring the pot and abusing every player who's name they can remember, past and present.
Most, 99%, however are interested in catching up on the latest news and sensible discussion.

Good on Jabso for putting in his "two bobs worth" via email to SEN on this subject.

[mdc]

Firstly,your as to art critics. Art critics are just that, critics.
They are invariably people who have spent a significant amount of time being "educated" by more senior art critics as to how to think, how to evaluate a peice of art or artist and even indoctrinated into believing they can somehow know what the artist was thinking or trying to convey through his/her art.
Incredibly few art critics are successful artist and even fewer successful artists are art critics.

Probably not the place to talk about this, but you're being entirely too cynical about art critics. Of course incredibly few art critics are successful as artists; art criticism and art are separate fields. There's not reason the same shouldn't hold true for any discipline (including sports).

As to the talent knowledge versus football knowledge you have a valid argument.
But you neglected to mention that there is absolutely no correlation between someone's actual football knowledge and their own estimation of their football knowledge.
Just because a poster hold firmly to an opinion does not make it fact.


Certainly not - my point was simply that an opinion isn't necessarily wrong because it's coming from a 42 year old construction worker who's never played above D-grade. Similarly, an opinion from a 3-time premiership captain striving to be a head coach isn't necessarily right. Nor is an opinion expressed through traditional media intrinsically more valid than one posted on the interwebs.

[Pie eyed]

[/quote] Certainly not - my point was simply that an opinion isn't necessarily wrong because it's coming from a 42 year old construction worker who's never played above D-grade. Similarly, an opinion from a 3-time premiership captain striving to be a head coach isn't necessarily right. Nor is an opinion expressed through traditional media intrinsically more valid than one posted on the interwebs.[/quote]

I think we agree on your point. My added remarks were more in relation to todays story about coach's warning players against reading forums such as this and the correlation to certain posters who hold themselves in very high regard where it concerns their opinion in the face of overwhelming disagreement by the vast majority of respondents.
My own opinions are always open to change if I can see a valid argument to support another.
Some on these and other forums see the changing or even tempering of "their opinion" as sign of weakness or failure and will not even contemplate such a change until the day they die or are black carded.
By the way my comments were not an attack on your post, it was extension of it.

PS...you figured I have little regard for art critics...I know quite a few...and stand by my comment...if it were not for government grants most would have either starved to death in front of Woolies or got lost in their backyards never to be found again.

[tess]

I am not a Blogger I am member of a Messageboard and I post messages. Robbo is just a moron calling us Bloggers as are all the others falling into the same trap referring to us as Bloggers.

These places are Message Boards not Blogs.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I am not a Blogger I am member of a Messageboard and I post messages. Robbo is just a moron calling us Bloggers as are all the others falling into the same trap referring to us as Bloggers.

These places are Message Boards not Blogs.

Whatever. Its only a word.

Doesnt change the context of the article, which is that too much of what gets said around here goes too far.

Dont shoot the blogger, I mean the messenger.

[tess]

Shoot... nah I got zee whip and I know how to use it!

[Snag Breac]

From today's Herald Sun:
THE mother of an AFL player with depression last night lashed out at the viciousness of internet fan forums.
"Donna", the mum of a player at a Melbourne-based club, believes the forums contribute to her son's depression.
The effect on the player was extreme, she said, and the effect on the parents "cuts straight to the core".
"There's nothing you can do about it," Donna said.

"It's painful for everyone.
"He goes through periods where he has highs and lows and when he gets slandered on this website, they use his full name and it's obviously brutal.
"It certainly contributes to him having a real low that week.
"Then he starts to feel: 'Am I good enough to be here, what do I have to do, I'm trying my guts out, everyone thinks I'm hopeless, I won't be selected'.
As a parent your heart goes out to your own child, as it does to the other players slandered, and you just feel so futile. You can't do anything.
"It doesn't matter how much you say and try to support them and encourage them, and say: 'Don't read them', there's just nothing you can do."
The AFL Players' Association yesterday in the Herald Sun said blogging by supporters was "cyber bullying".
Clubs also feared the vicious appraisals of their players could lead to forms of depression.
Several clubs revealed they had warned some of their players to boycott the websites.
Player managers also confirmed yesterday their players had struggled to deal with the attacks.
Donna said last night her son's club and coach were aware of her son's depression and that he was the subject of vitriol on websites.
"It's fine for people to say 'harden up', or 'toughen up', but at the end of the day they are still very vulnerable kids trying to learn how to play footy at an elite level," she said.
"They are going to make mistakes and they don't need misinformed, anonymous 'supporters' (to) slander them when half the time the supporters that write about them haven't been to the game, and they don't know the instructions that have been given to these players.
"Yet, they (hide) behind their anonymity and make out they are bigger than Ben Hur, and think they can say whatever they like.
"That's the frustrating and hurtful part of it.
"And these kids, be they 18, 19, 21 or 22, don't have a leg to stand on.
"Some players can do no wrong and escape everything, which is fantastic for them and that's the way it should be, but for others, they just hone in on them.
"Then it just seems to be a never-ending bandwagon."
Donna said she knew of parents who joined blogs to dispute and object to comments made about their sons.
She said she had, as recently as the weekend, spoken to parents of other players about the websites.
Most disturbing, according to the AFLPA's Pippa Grange, was that player identities were being taken and comments being posted under that player's name.
"They get obviously quite upset about that," Grange said.

ANYONE with personal problems can call Lifeline on 131 114; Victorian Statewide Suicide Helpline on 1300 651 251; or Mensline Australia on 1300 789 978.

-------
I can think of at least 1 young Collingwood player whose mother she might be. As my not so sweet little Irish mother used to say; 'Everyone's somebody's son."

[tess]

As my not so sweet little Irish mother used to say; 'Everyone's somebody's son."


:eek:

[mdc]

The AFL Players' Association yesterday in the Herald Sun said blogging by supporters was "cyber bullying".

I would have thought it'd be pretty hard to bully someone you don't know and have no contact with.

Several clubs revealed they had warned some of their players to boycott the websites.

"several", "some". Sounds like a load of shit. Why would a club be afraid to state this publicly?

Player managers also confirmed yesterday their players had struggled to deal with the attacks.

Again, which player managers, and why are they afraid to speak publicly? Most manage multiple players, so it's not like they'd be outing their "depressed" clients.

"Yet, they (hide) behind their anonymity

I lol'd.

Donna said she knew of parents who joined blogs to dispute and object to comments made about their sons.

You don't join blogs anymore than you join newspapers. Now I'm certain the good folk at the Herald Sun are intentionally misusing this "buzz" word. I refuse to believe that none of the editing team or the writers know what a blog is. It's simply not possible, given most of them are very technology-savvy.

[Snag Breac]

I
You don't join blogs anymore than you join newspapers. Now I'm certain the good folk at the Herald Sun are intentionally misusing this "buzz" word. I refuse to believe that none of the editing team or the writers know what a blog is. It's simply not possible, given most of them are very technology-savvy.

I'm sure you're right, but they don't care what they call it - and "blog" seems to have more impact that "forum" or "message board".

[Pie eyed]

I think JAJH's opinion on this subject would be very interesting being perfectly placed to give an insight.
However he may well be unable to comment.

Even a "no comment" would be welcome JAJH.

[Paddywackers]

I can't stand it when a username creates an identity that means they don't like a certain player ie Cloke or Fraser, and will therefore not credit that player and bag them at every opportunity. THere pathetic ego behind there mousepad obviously becomes destructive to peoples lives. One thread on another forum, Travis Cloke to star in the Wizard Cup of Oz, the little weed that started that thread is simply a no-body... and the players need to be aware of this.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

You don't join blogs anymore than you join newspapers..

Not everybody in the universe is a nerd. Who cares what you call it, it doesnt detract from the message.

[mdc]

Not everybody in the universe is a nerd. Who cares what you call it, it doesnt detract from the message.

Of course it does. If I wrote an article about Collingwood and kept referring to Anthony Rocca as a dashing flanker, would you take me seriously?

The term blog is now in common usage, and hardly restricted to "nerds". The HS knows this very well, they're intentionally misusing it. It strips them of any credibility.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

I think there are quite a few dashing flankers on here.

[Chase the Ace]

I'm a blogger and proud of it.
I blog on here and I blog on Aussie Phorums and I blog on other forums too, I like to blog on message boards and forums.

[sirlothie]

I'm sure you're right, but they don't care what they call it - and "blog" seems to have more impact that "forum" or "message board".

Seems they are trying to depict that internet users are posting material with the sole intention of destroying people's self belief and confidence, and making slanderous and unfair comments about them.

Not just a bunch of supporters discussing their opinions on what would make us a better team, on what kind of players we think we need, and the strengths and weaknesses of said players. That's all we do and we have every right to because I'm getting quite tired of these 'poor me' AFL footballers.

These guys are paid extremely well to do what they do, where do they reckon that coin comes from? God? Making them immune from anything negative opinions? I don't see George W Bush up in arms because someone said the war in Iraq was stupid.

If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

Flip burgers for a living and you will still find someone critiquing your performance so welcome to the real world, you want to be a high profile AFL footballer and earn the big bucks, being discussed it kind of comes with the territory kids.

Obviously there is a line but that article states the mother is concerned it destroys his confidence in his football ability, and not being able to make the team, mate... do something about it. Did Michael Jordan quit when he didn't make the high school basketball team? No.

Prove us wrong.

[sirlothie]

Of course it does. If I wrote an article about Collingwood and kept referring to Anthony Rocca as a dashing flanker, would you take me seriously?

The term blog is now in common usage, and hardly restricted to "nerds". The HS knows this very well, they're intentionally misusing it. It strips them of any credibility.

Yeah a blog suggests people are writing negative things directed straight at the said player, a forum suggests it's a part of discussion or debate. A blog seems more offensive if someone is just aiming at someone for the sake of it, rather than some player logging onto BF to read a discussion about himself and finding himself breaking out the Kleenex...

Maybe if they have such fragile ego's and such poor standing among their supporters they should spend less time Googling themselves and more time on the training track? :o

[The Royal Sampler]

A "blog" is an online journal, from the word "weblog". It doesn't require input from anybody else, and is usually associated with emo teens :p. An online forum is the polar opposite, hence the inappropriate use of the term "bloggers" I find extremely annoying.

[anti.]

Well Benny Cousins did and look at what happened to him.....

While Chrissy Judd didn't and look where he is .......

and your point is?

[Chase the Ace]

A "blog" is an online journal, from the word "weblog". It doesn't require input from anybody else, and is usually associated with emo teens :p. An online forum is the polar opposite, hence the inappropriate use of the term "bloggers" I find extremely annoying.

Well, when you put it in those terms, it really does make such a huge difference