View Full Version : Round 9 Team - In: Fraser Out: Wood
doofdoof
22 May 2008, 18:22
COLLINGWOOD
B: Heath Shaw, Shane Wakelin, Rhyce Shaw
HB: Nick Maxwell, Nathan Brown, Heritier O’Brien
C: Scott Pendlebury, Scott Burns, Tarkyn Lockyer
HF: Alan Didak, Anthony Rocca, Paul Medhurst
F: Dane Swan, Travis Cloke, Dale Thomas
Foll: Josh Fraser, Shane O’Bree, Leon Davis
Int: Martin Clarke, Ben Johnson, Sharrod Wellingham, Chris Bryan
Emg: Ryan Cook, Ryan Lonie, Cameron Wood
In: Josh Fraser
Out: Cameron Wood (omitted)
GEELONG
B: Tom Harley, Matthew Scarlett, Josh Hunt
HB: Darren Milburn, Harry Taylor, Corey Enright
C: Cameron Ling, Joel Selwood, Jimmy Bartel
HF: Steve Johnson, Cameron Mooney, Paul Chapman
F: James Kelly, Tom Hawkins, Mathew Stokes
Foll: Mark Blake, Gary Ablett, Joel Corey
I/C: Trent West, Andrew Mackie, Ryan Gamble, David Wojcinski
In: Stokes, West
Out: Max Rooke, Shane Mumford
Interesting to see Bryan held his spot. I think he'll be useful against Blake
oh o, thats gonna fire up all the bryan haters.
i didnt think wood did that bad last week, but bryan didnt have a poor game eitheir.
Palmer Stoat
22 May 2008, 18:24
Not a fan of that decision.
SuperDude
22 May 2008, 18:26
Why did we Trade for Wood then if we are not going to use him against good Sides.
God, I think Keeping Bryan in could backfire on MM-Again:mad:
Paddywackers
22 May 2008, 18:27
Interesting choice. I am not to dissapointed of this decision. Bryan was very hard and determined on the weekend. The same attitude will this week will make him very valuable. Who knows he might line up one or two of their boys.
doofdoof
22 May 2008, 18:28
They may be playing games with Wood listed as an emergency
I agree with this decision. Earlier in the week I said I would keep Bryan and drop Wood for Fraser as long as Ottens isn't in. Wood needs a bit of a kick up the ass, not because he has been poor but because he could be much better and Bryan was good against the Saints.
jimmy_clement#8
22 May 2008, 18:29
Hard to drop Cameron I would've thought. That said, Fraser and Bryan can work. Probably a bit hard to play all three, and drop Bryan. Still, no Wood? Fascinating. We shall see tomorrow night.
SuperDude
22 May 2008, 18:29
I agree with this decision. Earlier in the week I said I would keep Bryan and drop Wood for Fraser as long as Ottens isn't in. Wood needs a bit of a kick up the ass, not because he has been poor but because he could be much better and Bryan was good against the Saints.
So Wood will play in the Seconds?
Well the VFL Team would finally get a Decent Ruckman;)
LeisureSuitLori
22 May 2008, 18:35
Interesting choice. I am not to dissapointed of this decision. Bryan was very hard and determined on the weekend. The same attitude will this week will make him very valuable. Who knows he might line up one or two of their boys.
Ditto. Deserves to hold his spot on last weekends performance and has a point to prove against Geelong.
Josh will be itching to be out there after missing the Prelim last year but don't be surprised if Wood replaces him. Josh isn't 100%
good4footy
22 May 2008, 18:36
Hard to drop Cameron I would've thought. That said, Fraser and Bryan can work. Probably a bit hard to play all three, and drop Bryan. Still, no Wood? Fascinating. We shall see tomorrow night.
Need a third tall - that is when we have played better. Can have all three if Maxwell was dropped and played Fraser in the forward line. If Bryan & Wood get cleaned up in the ruck you have the option of Fraser going there. Cats do not have a tall forward structure and therefore Maxwell is not needed.
Not happy with Wood being dropped - but okay with Bryan being kept in if that makes sense.
Stakerz
22 May 2008, 18:46
Interesting.
Let's hope Bryan does well :)
Good decision.
People have been getting carried away with how good Wood has been this year. He really hasn't been any better than what Bryan and Richards served up last year. The difference is Wood looks more capable and is bit behind in development so the hope is for big improvement.
A week or 2 in the seconds will probably do him some good. With what he has delivered to date he really needs to be forced to fight for his spot in the team.
sirlothie
22 May 2008, 18:49
Bryan pissed me off a lot last time we played this mob... :(
deck that's a bit unfair, Wood has been much better than Richards and Bryan last year. But that doesn't mean Bryan of 2008 is totally hopeless. The main thing is that Wood can play a lot better and he needs to earn his spot in the side and get involved in the play more because when he is involved good things happen.
Big Bucks
22 May 2008, 18:52
How many shit games does hackwell need to play to be dropped.
Not a fan of that decision.
me either.
Big Bucks
22 May 2008, 18:53
Need a third tall - that is when we have played better. Can have all three if Maxwell was dropped and played Fraser in the forward line. If Bryan & Wood get cleaned up in the ruck you have the option of Fraser going there. Cats do not have a tall forward structure and therefore Maxwell is not needed.
Not happy with Wood being dropped - but okay with Bryan being kept in if that makes sense.
When is he!
Ickirus
22 May 2008, 19:00
Poor decision.
We finally have an advantage in the ruck against a team and we drop a good young tap ruckmen to keep a player who plays with heart but can't ruck for peanuts.
Wood could have really performed well against the younger Geelong ruckmen of Blake and Mumford and given some of our midfielders first chance at the ball.
We just gave away one of our small advantages over Geelong.
smiddaz123
22 May 2008, 19:00
How many shit games does hackwell need to play to be dropped.
I actually agree. He seems to get an easy go tbh.
smiddaz123
22 May 2008, 19:03
Poor decision.
We finally have an advantage in the ruck against a team and we drop a good young tap ruckmen to keep a player who plays with heart but can't ruck for peanuts.
Wood could have really performed well against the younger Geelong ruckmen of Blake and Mumford and given some of our midfielders first chance at the ball.
We just gave away one of our small advantages over Geelong.
Prime example of where Wood keeps getting over rated.
Fraser has rucked better than Wood in 2008.
Krueger
22 May 2008, 19:04
Bryan pissed me off a lot last time we played this mob... :(
Yep played crap but his endevour was good that night too. He had 6 possessions that game but there were worse offenders such as Richards with 2 disposals and Rocca with 3 :eek:
bradrowe#32
22 May 2008, 19:05
I don't mind Wood being dropped. Probably needs a rest.
thatday
22 May 2008, 19:08
Bryan pissed me off a lot last time we played this mob... :(
All I can remember is him running into a certain goal, taking to long, and eventually having the kick smothered. :(
However, I do agree with the decision to keep him in. Was in better form against the Saints than Wood.
Ickirus
22 May 2008, 19:10
Prime example of where Wood keeps getting over rated.
Fraser has rucked better than Wood in 2008.
Yes Fraser has rucked better but Wood is a better ruckmen than Bryan.
Bryan shows heart no doubt, but he plays in the ruck and while he can sometimes make a contest he can't ruck better than Wood
jerry springer
22 May 2008, 19:13
good.wont hurt Woody to go back and play with the two's
Big Bucks
22 May 2008, 19:14
Yes and Wood is a better ruckmen than Bryan.
Bryan shows heart no doubt, but he plays in the ruck and while he can sometimes make a contest he can't ruck better than Wood
I am a Wood supporter but your comment has no basis, tell me how many effective tapouts to advantage did Wood have to advantage compared to Bryan last week against St-Kilda!
B&W Army
22 May 2008, 19:17
If Mick has any serious doubts he'll make a late change for either Fraser or Bryan and bring in Wood. After all he is an emergency.
sirlothie
22 May 2008, 19:20
All I can remember is him running into a certain goal, taking to long, and eventually having the kick smothered. :(
Yeah that's the one.
And he looks like the human slow-motion man against the Cats... well he did last time... :o
Ickirus
22 May 2008, 19:22
I am a Wood supporter but your comment has no basis, tell me how many effective tapouts to advantage did Wood have to advantage compared to Bryan last week against St-Kilda!
While the stats in the paper said Wood had 0% effective tapouts if you actually watched the game he tapped it to the advantage of our players more than a few times, but the Pies players straight away got tackled or the ball hits the deck but is to the advantage of the pies players, however these arent classified as to advantage in the stats unless its a clear break way clearance as a result of the tap.
Bryan got maybe 1-2 tap to advantage last week, which gave him a higher % of effective tapouts, but he only had about 7-9 tapouts for the game so isnt really relevant.
Bryan played one good game last week, but he also played for much of last year and didn't do much, he is clearly not a better tap ruckmen than Wood.
deck that's a bit unfair, Wood has been much better than Richards and Bryan last year.
Disagree (Although I did miss the first 3 games). As I stated I think the difference is Wood has the potential to be a lot better than either. He has been inconsistent without being outstanding in any of the 5 games I have watched live.
The expectations on both Richards and Bryan last year was a hell of lot higher than Wood because of age. Both players were expected to be good AFL ruckmen by that stage of there career.
GeneralDisarray
22 May 2008, 19:38
I agree with this decision. Earlier in the week I said I would keep Bryan and drop Wood for Fraser as long as Ottens isn't in. Wood needs a bit of a kick up the ass, not because he has been poor but because he could be much better and Bryan was good against the Saints.
Excellent post. I'm sure this is what the coaching staff were thinking. They might also want to hit the cats hard and Bryan can shake things up because he's got a bit of mongrel in him.
i_hate_scams
22 May 2008, 19:40
nothing better than a bit of competition for the rucking positions.
when was the last time we had 3 rucks to chose from?
Chase the Ace
22 May 2008, 19:42
Nah, not for mine.
Wood is far better than Bryan
AsianWithAFro
22 May 2008, 19:51
I bet you if we lose all the blame will go to Byran :( Good luck to him I say :)
Always said MM had NFI about the ruck.
The bottom line is Bryan is not a good enough footballer in general or ruckman specifically and is only on the list because we have been so poor at recruiting ruckmen and he had a year on his contract. He is back-up only. If Fraser and Wood are fit Bryan should never play. That said, I did like his endeavour against St. Kilda. We are trying to win the flag not discover Australia though.
magpies42
22 May 2008, 19:55
Why did we Trade for Wood then if we are not going to use him against good Sides.
God, I think Keeping Bryan in could backfire on MM-Again:mad:
take it easy, he is a young developing ruck! he was no certainty to get games in the 1's when drafted!
he is a long way off yet
PieLebo87
22 May 2008, 20:01
Good decision.
pongo_3931
22 May 2008, 20:09
I dont know much about Bryan except that he cops a bit of flack on here.
So hopefully some of you will be able to field my questions and help me out.
Who's the faster of the two?
Without knowing the answer to that question I feel Wood might be outpaced on the ground, especially in the midfield and perhaps Bryan will fill that gap?
Another thought. Is Bryan the more built of the two?
If we play a hard pressured game, Bryan might be able to throw his weight around a bit more?
Err final thought, Wood probably needs a week off any way.
take it easy, he is a young developing ruck! he was no certainty to get games in the 1's when drafted!
he is a long way off yet
So does any supporter believe we would have better off recruiting Travis Johnstone with the pick we used on Wood and using our last pick on Stephen King from Geelong( I think he went pick no. 94 or something didn't he)? Short term thinking,yes. But did the club itself believe we were not a chance of winning a prewmiership this year, so went for the long term future with Wood?
Wood is a long term project much like Guy Richards was, although he is far superior to Richards in almost all areas of the game. He may develop or he may stay around the same level he is now. he is very similar to Fraser in that they both lack physical presence, so do we have two ruckman who are far too similar and Bryan's inclusion actually adds a new dimension?
Bryan plays one ok game and his entire 2007 is forgotten? Not to mention Wood clearly outrucked him against St.Kilda.
I really doubt Wood's worn out having played less than 50% of game-time this season, so "resting" him is just a terrible decision. The gap between Wood and Bryan is way too significant to be rotating them. Especially when we could have actually had an advantage in the ruck this time had we played Wood.
chop_me
22 May 2008, 20:58
I bet you if we lose all the blame will go to Byran :( Good luck to him I say :)i agree...
if we lose (which isnt' unlikely) and bryan doesn't 20+ hitouts and 15+ possessions, he'll definitely get a bake here come 11pm on Friday night...
even if Wood is indeed a better ruckman than Bryan.. there's no harm in resting him once in a while considering how Fraser "overrucked" when he was young
Big Bucks
22 May 2008, 21:07
i agree...
if we lose (which isnt' unlikely) and bryan doesn't 20+ hitouts and 15+ possessions, he'll definitely get a bake here come 11pm on Friday night...
even if Wood is indeed a better ruckman than Bryan.. there's no harm in resting him once in a while considering how Fraser "overrucked" when he was young
Not from me, he is the closest thing we have had as a ruckman since Monkhorst.
Bay Pie
22 May 2008, 21:09
I'm thinking quite the contrary. Wood just had a week off 2 weeks ago, so I'd hardly say it's a rest.
I'd say they are looking to get more game time into him which they can't do in the AFL.
Wood is a much better ruckman then Bryan. Bryan may be in to just bash and crash. Le't's just hope he does.
CENTERMAN
22 May 2008, 21:17
Originally Posted by Jabso http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?p=11099773#post11099773)
I agree with this decision. Earlier in the week I said I would keep Bryan and drop Wood for Fraser as long as Ottens isn't in. Wood needs a bit of a kick up the ass, not because he has been poor but because he could be much better and Bryan was good against the Saints.
Excellent post. I'm sure this is what the coaching staff were thinking. They might also want to hit the cats hard and Bryan can shake things up because he's got a bit of mongrel in him.
I'm glad Bryans in and hope he runs through a few of them, we miss it.
swiftdog
22 May 2008, 21:51
Cam probably needs a rest, Bryan's game last week didn't warrant him being dropped anyway. Give him a chance.
The Royal Sampler
22 May 2008, 22:18
I doubt Fraser will play anyway. PCL injuries are nothing to be sneezed at. If Fraser plays and Wood doesn't, I'll be pretty miffed with the decision.
Other than that, Maxwell and Wakes can thank their lucky stars to be playing this week. Another game like that could easily see them dropped against the WCE, but given we're playing Geelong I can somewhat understand the rationale for keeping the experience in the team despite the poor form.
Optimax
22 May 2008, 22:59
i agree...
if we lose (which isnt' unlikely) and bryan doesn't 20+ hitouts and 15+ possessions, he'll definitely get a bake here come 11pm on Friday night...
even if Wood is indeed a better ruckman than Bryan.. there's no harm in resting him once in a while considering how Fraser "overrucked" when he was young
No doubt he will and it will be stupid and sad and pathetic baseless attacks. In fact he will cop it pretty similar if we win or if he has fifty touches i dare say he is quickly becoming a scape goat. Gald Big Bucks realises eh has value but i wouldnt say as good as monkhurst.
In saying which i really dont think fraser will play, PCL seem to have a history of being a bitch to drop.
PIES_MAGIC
23 May 2008, 00:18
players like wood, brown, goldsack and so on should pay every week without fail bryan wont win us a granny but wood has the potential to, i really dont care if bryan kicks 5 goals wood should no doubt be in the team.
chop_me
23 May 2008, 00:29
players like wood, brown, goldsack and so on should pay every week without fail bryan wont win us a granny but wood has the potential to, i really dont care if bryan kicks 5 goals wood should no doubt be in the team.
isn't this just the baseless bryan-basing setting in? so you think we should drop bryan if he kicks 5 goals this week?
i think sometimes we get caught being too future focused.. wood might (and probably will) be the better ruckman in the future....
but at the moment... let's focus on this season.. and right now.. wood doesn't deserve to be a shoe-in for our team just yet..
simply on the basis of last week's performance, bryan deserves to remain in the team moreso than wood
Timmy from Thomastown
23 May 2008, 00:32
Good decision.
Against Geelong and especially with Ottens out, we need "around the ground" rucks who can kick long and play forward. Hitouts dont matter so much. And a bigger harder body wont hurt either.
PIES_MAGIC
23 May 2008, 00:48
isn't this just the baseless bryan-basing setting in? so you think we should drop bryan if he kicks 5 goals this week?
i think sometimes we get caught being too future focused.. wood might (and probably will) be the better ruckman in the future....
but at the moment... let's focus on this season.. and right now.. wood doesn't deserve to be a shoe-in for our team just yet..
simply on the basis of last week's performance, bryan deserves to remain in the team moreso than wood
HUH, wood is 21 years old you play the bloke. just like carlton do with kreuzer players like this you just play. if wood had all the hype like daisy did he would be in the side guaranteed
chop_me
23 May 2008, 00:51
HUH, wood is 21 years old you play the bloke. just like carlton do with kreuzer players like this you just play. if wood had all the hype like daisy did he would be in the side guaranteed
carlton's scenario is different coz:
(1) carlton won't be challenging the flag this year so they are rightfully future-focused (similar to what Hawthorn did a few years back)
(2) who's in line to replace kreuzer? isn't Hackland their third ruck?
that's imo anywayz
if.. come round 16 or something and we're well and truly out of the eight... i'll be surprised if wood gets dropped
PIES_MAGIC
23 May 2008, 00:56
carlton's scenario is different coz:
(1) carlton won't be challenging the flag this year so they are rightfully future-focused (similar to what Hawthorn did a few years back)
(2) who's in line to replace kreuzer? isn't Hackland their third ruck?
that's imo anywayz
hackland cloke hampson kreuzer, thats there ruck division. that doesnt make sense so in your opinion you wouldnt play wood for the rest of the year because we are fighting for the flag and wood is it good enough to be there? now come on and tell us what you really think
chop_me
23 May 2008, 01:07
hackland cloke hampson kreuzer, thats there ruck division. that doesnt make sense so in your opinion you wouldnt play wood for the rest of the year because we are fighting for the flag and wood is it good enough to be there? now come on and tell us what you really think
i'm just saying that if bryan plays decently in every game remaining this year and fulfils his role on the team... then he doesn't deserve to get dropped.
it's highly unlikely that bryan will play well in every game this year so he'll probably get sent back to the 2's some time this year.. but until then.. let's give him a go
just because wood is 21 doesn't make him an automatic selection.. very much the same reason why we don't throw Reid into the team yet.. quite simply at the moment rocca contributes more to the team than a Reid would...
so in the case bryan/wood.. if bryan played to the same level and intensity he did last week.. then he would contribute more to the current set-up of our team.. .. i know bryan wasnt' great last year but his output last week was decent enough to ensure that he doesnt' get dropped..
if he's not up to it against geelong.. then he'll get dropped
PieLebo87
23 May 2008, 03:03
isn't this just the baseless bryan-basing setting in? so you think we should drop bryan if he kicks 5 goals this week?
i think sometimes we get caught being too future focused.. wood might (and probably will) be the better ruckman in the future....
but at the moment... let's focus on this season.. and right now.. wood doesn't deserve to be a shoe-in for our team just yet..
simply on the basis of last week's performance, bryan deserves to remain in the team moreso than wood
Post that has made the most sense in this whole thread.
I really think PIES_MAGIC is just talking shit. Take a look at Fraser, remember when we played this young kid in the ruck during his development years without a break? Doesn't look too special now, does he?
You can't just keep playing Wood just because of his name and potential. He isn't in the best of form, he is 21 and needs a break from the AFL, and he needs to regain some form in the VFL. Its as simple as that, why are people beating it up so much?
As for Bryan, even if he kicks 5 goals he doesn't deserve to be in the side? Are you smoking crack or something? Geez some people are ignorant. Get over yourself because its embarressing. People need to get off Bryan's back, he offers more to the Collingwood FC then any of you that constantly 'bash' him.
Somebody
23 May 2008, 05:35
Excellent post. I'm sure this is what the coaching staff were thinking. They might also want to hit the cats hard and Bryan can shake things up because he's got a bit of mongrel in him.Yes I think definitely they're going for Bryan's toughness and hardness against a very hard side in Geelong, since he played about as well as Wood - although wood is probably a bit better in the taps.
There aren't many players in AFL as tough and bullocking as Bryan - it's an underrated asset, if he can just improve his general play and awareness. Eg if he improves his marking he could be a poor man's J Brown which is still pretty good.
Really against most sides, if he improves I can't see why we can't play all 3, since Fraser is a good forward and almost a midfielder, and Wood is pretty mobile also, with Bryan as the enforcer. Maybe next year...
The Dawes
23 May 2008, 09:20
I'm happy for Chris Bryan to be given another chance after his good form last week.
With Ottens not playing, a big body like Bryan could be useful against Blake and West.
Not the end of the world for Wood to be dropped either - at least he'll get some decent game time in the VFL.
daics cousin
23 May 2008, 10:55
Wood may still end up playing.He is listed as an emergency and Fraser is not 100% definate that he'll play.He may get pulled before the start of the game.
popathon
23 May 2008, 12:36
MM has a master plan which involves Bryan grounding Scarlett, Gablett & Bartell. He'll get suspended but take one for the team.
In all seriousness Bryan is useless in the ruck and he knows it. Against stkilda he ran into the player and threw his arms up hoping for a tap. I get why we would want his big body but if he doesn't get at least 10 hit outs against the hacks Geelong have in i will be very dissapointed.
And why are people saying Wood needs a rest? he had a week off 2 weeks ago.
Invigoration
23 May 2008, 13:05
Just because we traded for Wood doesn't mean he should be a walk up starter.
He hasn't set the world on fire, and although I think he has been good, Bryan was better last week and deserves his spot.
Wood has years ahead of him at this club if he wants to work for it, and we all know he came here for opportunites to play ones... But it shouldn't be a given for him, he still needs to work and earn for a spot in our line up.
We looked better last week with Bryan in the middle. Not because he necessarily won taps, but when the ball hit the deck he was a 4th tackler, a ferocious 4th tackler and we need that on the deck because none of our midfielders read the taps all that well.
And especially against the Cats midfield that reads the ruck so well, I don't see a tap ruckman being the difference to us winning. A crash and bash, determined and hungry ruckman though may definitely be advantageous to us.
People need to forget about previous years and grudges they have of certain players, we can only judge Bear off how he has performed so far this year.
Optimism is in need this week, I don't think we have much to lose this week seeings how significantly we are against the odds. How about all the idiots that rush in to bash a player that has done nothing wrong this year, actually wait a little while for they carry out their senseless criticism.
Wood left Brisbane due to lack of opportunities, but if Bryan continues to play better then him, I'm more then happy for Wood to once again face a lack of opportunity.
The Collingwood seniors jumper is still something that should be held in high regard, Cameron Wood now knows that just because Collingwood lack ruckmen this doesn't mean he is able to just rock up and get a game.
I can only see this benefiting his progress in the future.
Good luck to Bryan, if he plays with the heart and spirit he did last week, I'm more then happy to see him in the team.
ksardog
23 May 2008, 14:32
im sick and tired of people bringing up the excuse that fraser rucked when he was young and its the reason why he is no good now.any chance he is no good now because he has the heart the size of a pea.wood first ruck with bryan giving him a break with fraser at half forward and doing ruck duties deep in forward line.wood needs a rest? from what sitting on the bench.he has been jumping over most ruckman this year he justs needs to thump the ball forward a few times in contests instead of trying the perfect tap to advantage .mix it up a bit
Good decision.
Against Geelong and especially with Ottens out, we need "around the ground" rucks who can kick long and play forward. Hitouts dont matter so much. And a bigger harder body wont hurt either.Bryan isn’t an around the ground anything though. 4 weeks to get the message from his brain to his foot. He can lead, mark and kick but we have enough forwards. I agree his bigger body and willingness to use it is a plus but it’s his only plus and it isn’t enough.
That said, I suspect Bryan and Wood will be the ruckmen to night and Fraser will miss.
Wood is definitely a better ruck than Bryan however that does not mean that Bryan will never get a game with Fraser and Wood fit.
Wood's form has been tapering off recently and dropping him to the twos will:
1 - Give him a run against lesser opposition hopefully giving his confidence a boost
2 - Let him know that there IS competition for the 2nd ruck position and therefore he can't afford to let his game slide
3 - Get another game into Bryan which will mean that we have a ready to go third ruckman if injury or form drops again later in the season or finals like last year.
Not a bad decision in my opinion. Wood will be back better from it I believe