View Full Version : Expansion Why QLD deserves its second team
fabulousphil
22 May 2008, 20:04
Western Australain rugby league has 8 senior teams .... that is all.... there is no division 2 or
any other teams, although they do have reserve grade and 4 colts teams, as far as juniors go they have 6 under 12 teams in the whole of WA ....the other age levels are similar.
How they can seriously ask for a team in WA is beyond me.
In comparison to the RL state of QLD aussie rules has
State League Division One Clubs
08-03-2007
The 1st Division of the AFLQ State League consists of the following 8 Clubs:
Broadbeach, Labrador, Morningside, Mt Gravatt, Redland, Southport, Suncoast Lions and Zillmere Eagles.
State League Division Two Clubs
08-03-2007
The 2nd Division of the AFLQ State League consists of the following 12 Clubs:
Aspley, Burleigh, Coolangatta, Maroochy/Northshore, Mayne, Noosa, Palm Beach Currumbin, Sandgate, Springwood, Surfers Paradise, Western Magpies and Wilston Grange.
State Association Division One Clubs
08-03-2007
The State League association is made up of clubs that played in the AFL South Queensland competition in 2005. In November 2005 AFL South Queensland became part of AFL Queensland bringing about the formation of the AFL Queensland State Association.
The Division 1 clubs for 2006 are: Alexandra Hills, Caboolture, Caloundra, Coorparoo Kings, Kenmore, Robina, Strathpine, University of Queensland, Wynnum and Yeronga.
State Association Division Two Clubs
08-03-2007
State Association Division Two is made up of the following 2 team Clubs:Beenleigh, Calamvale, Griffith University, Ipswich, Moorooka and Redcliffe.
State Association Division Three Clubs
05-03-2007
State Association Division Three is a new division in 2007 which acts as the entry point for all new teams or existing clubs's 3rd team. Division 3 is made up of the following teams: Bribie Island,Collingwood Park, Griffith University, Logan, Murri Mavericks, Southern Redbacks, University of Queensland, Western Magpies and Wilston Grange.
All teams have reserves except division 3 ... but there is a division 3 north comp which has 5 teams in it, there is also 3 divisions of under 18s with 26 teams.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/comp_info.cgi?c=1-109-0-64171-0&a=LADDER
Adding to this is around 30,000 juniors spread from the Goldcoast to Cairns.
More than enough support for two QLD teams.
McCrann
23 May 2008, 02:57
Western Australain rugby league has 8 senior teams .... that is all.... there is no division 2 or
any other teams, although they do have reserve grade and 4 colts teams, as far as juniors go they have 6 under 12 teams in the whole of WA ....the other age levels are similar.
How they can seriously ask for a team in WA is beyond me.
In comparison to the RL state of QLD aussie rules has
State League Division One Clubs
08-03-2007
The 1st Division of the AFLQ State League consists of the following 8 Clubs:
Broadbeach, Labrador, Morningside, Mt Gravatt, Redland, Southport, Suncoast Lions and Zillmere Eagles.
State League Division Two Clubs
08-03-2007
The 2nd Division of the AFLQ State League consists of the following 12 Clubs:
Aspley, Burleigh, Coolangatta, Maroochy/Northshore, Mayne, Noosa, Palm Beach Currumbin, Sandgate, Springwood, Surfers Paradise, Western Magpies and Wilston Grange.
State Association Division One Clubs
08-03-2007
The State League association is made up of clubs that played in the AFL South Queensland competition in 2005. In November 2005 AFL South Queensland became part of AFL Queensland bringing about the formation of the AFL Queensland State Association.
The Division 1 clubs for 2006 are: Alexandra Hills, Caboolture, Caloundra, Coorparoo Kings, Kenmore, Robina, Strathpine, University of Queensland, Wynnum and Yeronga.
State Association Division Two Clubs
08-03-2007
State Association Division Two is made up of the following 2 team Clubs:Beenleigh, Calamvale, Griffith University, Ipswich, Moorooka and Redcliffe.
State Association Division Three Clubs
05-03-2007
State Association Division Three is a new division in 2007 which acts as the entry point for all new teams or existing clubs's 3rd team. Division 3 is made up of the following teams: Bribie Island,Collingwood Park, Griffith University, Logan, Murri Mavericks, Southern Redbacks, University of Queensland, Western Magpies and Wilston Grange.
All teams have reserves except division 3 ... but there is a division 3 north comp which has 5 teams in it, there is also 3 divisions of under 18s with 26 teams.
http://www.sportingpulse.com/comp_info.cgi?c=1-109-0-64171-0&a=LADDER
Adding to this is around 30,000 juniors spread from the Goldcoast to Cairns.
More than enough support for two QLD teams.
Excellent post.
So to all you knockers out there - there are plenty of football teams in Queensland - Aussie Football teams that is.
Western Australain rugby league has 8 senior teams .... that is all.... there is no division 2 or
any other teams, although they do have reserve grade and 4 colts teams, as far as juniors go they have 6 under 12 teams in the whole of WA ....the other age levels are similar.
How they can seriously ask for a team in WA is beyond me.
Actually you overestimate the case for rl in WA .
The warl has 8 teams existing in it's senior league .
Because of lack of numbers they had to amalgamate divisions .
There are only two teams Sth Perth and Nth Beach .
They play each other every year for the GF with Nth Beach winning .
One team is literally a bunch of expat miners that fly in from Kalgoorlie .
Not one junior and they get thrashed every week .
Fremantle nice club , but no juniors and still gets walloped .
Willagee some middle juniors , sort of defacto Fremantle juniors .
Centrals literally gets reborn every year , new title and location .
Joondalup and Rockingham statelite suburbs supported by expats
and stuck in the middle .
3 divisions rolled into one , with no team having a full complement .
major:o
fabulousphil
23 May 2008, 19:20
Actually you overestimate the case for rl in WA .
The warl has 8 teams existing in it's senior league .
Because of lack of numbers they had to amalgamate divisions .
There are only two teams Sth Perth and Nth Beach .
They play each other every year for the GF with Nth Beach winning .
One team is literally a bunch of expat miners that fly in from Kalgoorlie .
Not one junior and they get thrashed every week .
Fremantle nice club , but no juniors and still gets walloped .
Willagee some middle juniors , sort of defacto Fremantle juniors .
Centrals literally gets reborn every year , new title and location .
Joondalup and Rockingham statelite suburbs supported by expats
and stuck in the middle .
3 divisions rolled into one , with no team having a full complement .
major:o
Its possible i am overstating it .... but either way its really a pathetic amount of playing numbers which IMO give absolutely no credence to a WA team in the NRL.....
On the other hand i did not include any senior AR teams from outside Brisbane and the GC, there is quite strong junior and senior comps in Cairns, Mckay and around the Darling Downs.
I could be wrong but i think there is as many juniors playing aussie rules around the brisbane metro area as there is playing rugby league.
Sebastian Balboa
23 May 2008, 19:23
<snipped>
In comparison to the RL state of QLD aussie rules has
State League Division One Clubs
<snipped for brevity>
Adding to this is around 30,000 juniors spread from the Goldcoast to Cairns.
More than enough support for two QLD teams.
That's some serious critical mass football right there. Awesome :thumbsu:
Lenny29
23 May 2008, 19:52
So what? Most of those clubs have been around 10+ years, including when the Lions were struggling for numbers (hell, they still are when they struggle)
It's not evidence for or against the viability of a team, it's just some nice figures.
stmookeyj
24 May 2008, 00:28
Western Australain rugby league has 8 senior teams .... that is all.... there is no division 2 or
any other teams, although they do have reserve grade and 4 colts teams, as far as juniors go they have 6 under 12 teams in the whole of WA ....the other age levels are similar.
How they can seriously ask for a team in WA is beyond me.
Agreed big time. WA shouldn't be on RL's radar.
In comparison to the RL state of QLD aussie rules has
State League Division One Clubs
08-03-2007
The 1st Division of the AFLQ State League consists of the following 8 Clubs:
Broadbeach, Labrador, Morningside, Mt Gravatt, Redland, Southport, Suncoast Lions and Zillmere Eagles.
Problem is Zillmere only just made it to the start line this year and of course Suncoast could well be pulled at any time by the Lions should they feel the need.
Adding to this is around 30,000 juniors spread from the Goldcoast to Cairns.
More than enough support for two QLD teams.
Ah but how many EXCLUSIVELY play Australian Football? I know at our club we have a number of kids that play Union or League as well as footy. If push came to shove, we all know who wins the battle given that Schoolboy League is massive in these parts.
Most of those clubs have been around 10+ years, including when the Lions were struggling for numbers
Isn't that seen as a plus ?
.
Lenny29
25 May 2008, 15:04
Isn't that seen as a plus ?
.
I wouldn't have thought so when the argument appears to be lots of footy clubs = a viable AFL club.
I wouldn't have thought so when the argument appears to be lots of footy clubs = a viable AFL club.
So what's the logical link with "Most of those clubs have been around 10+ years "
:confused:
Lenny29
25 May 2008, 18:21
That most of these clubs existed while the Lions were struggling for members and supporters? Therefore, you can't point to these clubs' existance as evidence for the viability of another club?
That most of these clubs existed while the Lions were struggling for members and supporters? Therefore, you can't point to these clubs' existance as evidence for the viability of another club?
Why not ?
.
littleduck
25 May 2008, 22:13
Another solid crowd for the Lions today: 27,000 patrons in a 44,000 capacity stadium. Another tick in the win column!! Top 4 here we come.
27,000 seems to be about par for the course this year despite the Lions on-field successes and exciting brand of AFL football with Jon Brown up front. If you remove Gabba Members from the equation, its probably a core group of pay-at-the-gate fans in the vicinity of just over 20,000 locals.
Fortunately crowd interest isnt a major justification for a second AFL team in QLD. Ironically television interest isnt a major justification either. The major justifications relate to economic necessity, game-wide financial motives, and the ability to capitalise on a rapid increase in junior participation in recent years.
If you remove Gabba Members from the equation
Why would you want to do that ?
To make you feel better . Aha aha aha .
:thumbsd:
littleduck
26 May 2008, 09:12
Why would you want to do that ?
To make you feel better . Aha aha aha .
:thumbsd:
They contribute nothing to the Lions AFL Football Club. Their only involvement is access to their home games without charge.
catters05
26 May 2008, 09:14
They contribute nothing to the Lions AFL Football Club. Their only involvement is access to their home games without charge.
If the Lions didn't charge a bloody stupid amount for people who rock up then I think they would get bigger crowds.
This crap about selling cheap tickets first.
To miss a quarter and still be charged $40 for crap seats, what a joke.
Not sure if it is Lions or TicketMaster, but what a way of keeping people out.
To miss a quarter and still be charged $40 for crap seats, what a joke.
What events discount seats after the start ?
People who get there early get the first pick .
Get some responsibility into your life man !
Lenny29
26 May 2008, 19:24
Why not ?
.
Are you just ____ing with me now?
The original argument stated that the existance of x amount of clubs was sole justification for a second Qld club being viable.
I pointed out that the existance of most of x amount of clubs 10-15 years ago wasn't enough to justify the Lions being viable without assistance, so how can this be sole justification for a second viable club?
Surely you can follow this?
Are you just ____ing with me now?
The original argument stated that the existance of x amount of clubs was sole justification for a second Qld club being viable.
I pointed out that the existance of most of x amount of clubs 10-15 years ago wasn't enough to justify the Lions being viable without assistance, so how can this be sole justification for a second viable club?
Surely you can follow this?
Surely you can follow this then .
The fact that x number of clubs still remain shows that they have substance .
The fact is a lot of these x clubs have turned around from almost extinction .
Do you have any idea of the distribution of these clubs ?
Because clubs in the GC would never have contributed much to the Lions.
I.i. it's the distribution of these clubs in the GC hinterland .
There are new clubs , stronger old clubs and at one whole new division
in QLD football , not to mention QLD has been supplying AFL draftees at a
comparable rate to WA , which we all know has 2 AFL clubs
and justification for three .
.
ArsenalOfNewcastle
26 May 2008, 20:39
There is 6354 reasons why AFL will fail on the Gold Coast.
I love that name . What is it again ? Arsesinall
:D
ArsenalOfNewcastle
26 May 2008, 20:46
I love that name . What is it again ? Arsesinall
:D
Original ain't ya?
What's international AFL doing again? Cancelled the boring hybrid series!!! :rolleyes:
Original ain't ya?
What's international AFL doing again? Cancelled the boring hybrid series!!! :rolleyes:
Welcome to the latest RL troll.
Looks like this guy was a tad pissed that the bullshit international rules series outdrew international RL.
ArsenalOfNewcastle
26 May 2008, 20:52
when is your next world cup mate?
we're having one this year. there's a game in melbourne too. it's gonna sell out, kinda like origin did a few seasons ago
australia has hosted rugby league, union and cricket world cups.
gonna host a football world cup in 2018 too.
when is the next afl world cup!?!?!?!?
All you need to know troll is that the AFL are coming to eat your kids!
ArsenalOfNewcastle
26 May 2008, 21:09
lol coming to Newcastle? Just like 2008 BB - I don't think so!
hows the tv ratings?
lol coming to Newcastle? Just like 2008 BB - I don't think so!
hows the tv ratings?
Funnily enough, comfortably the highest in Australia of any football code.
ArsenalOfNewcastle
26 May 2008, 21:36
you're a nuffie
the soo match was equal in ratings with the AFL grand final hahah
the tenth most important match of the yr > AwFuL grand final!!!!!
if you know how to read, go on the oztam site
NRL's even falling behind on Pay TV......
Top 3 most watched football games of any code last week were all AFL games.
West Coast v Adelaide 639k viewers across the telecast.
Fremantle v Bulldogs 610k
Port v Sydney 608k.
Best NRL game was 591k.
And that was on a medium where the subscription rates are much higher in NSW and Queensland.
Obviously the AFL FTA ratings obliterate the NRL's, as they do every week.
ArsenalofNewcastle - the latest troll to get:
http://laser2.legs-world.co.uk/images/owned-tank.jpg
you're a nuffie
the soo match was equal in ratings with the AFL grand final hahah
the tenth most important match of the yr > AwFuL grand final!!!!!
if you know how to read, go on the oztam site
Another nail in the coffin for the negative rl stereotype.
Go ahead you're slowly killing the game .
:(
Lenny29
27 May 2008, 00:07
Surely you can follow this then .
The fact that x number of clubs still remain shows that they have substance .
The fact is a lot of these x clubs have turned around from almost extinction .
On the back of incredible amounts of hard work from volunteers. The clubs almost going extinct during a Lions boom period might give you an idea as to "substance".
Do you have any idea of the distribution of these clubs ?
Because clubs in the GC would never have contributed much to the Lions.
I.i. it's the distribution of these clubs in the GC hinterland
There are new clubs , stronger old clubs and at one whole new division
in QLD football ,
How strong were Sandgate, Grange, Mayne 10 years ago? It took 3 flags for the Lions to build on this support into a viable footy club!
not to mention QLD has been supplying AFL draftees at a
comparable rate to WA , which we all know has 2 AFL clubs
and justification for three .
.
WA has about 90,000 members between two clubs too, with a fair waiting list.
The Lions struggle to get 30,000 with much more capacity available.
WA has about 90,000 members between two clubs too, with a fair waiting list.
Perth has the numbers to be more exact ..
Perth has 1.5 million people . Brisbane has way more .
Qld supplies as many draftees as WA and Perth has two teams
with a theoretical viability of three .
You just completely overlook this point .
You haven't mentioned the GC as a separate entity ,
unless you're proposing a second brisbane team ,
Why were clubs struggling in Brisbane , because the focus shifted to the Lions .All second tier competitons dip when a higher tier is introduced .
The fact is that teams have recovered from this intial shock
and have grown with other teams .
You again haven't mentioned the other new teams and the introduction
of a whole new football division .
.
Lenny29
27 May 2008, 19:29
Brisbane has way more people but way less with an interest in AFL. And way less who will ever have an interest in AFL.
I've ignored the stuff about "the other new teams and an introduction of a whole new football division" as it's completely irrelevant to anything I've said.
I've ignored the stuff about "the other new teams and an introduction of a whole new football division" as it's completely irrelevant to anything I've said.
I've ignored the stuff about "the other new teams and an introduction of a whole new football division" as it will completely undermine anything I've said .
Freudian slip .
.
Lenny29
27 May 2008, 23:24
I've ignored the stuff about "the other new teams and an introduction of a whole new football division" as it will completely undermine anything I've said .
Freudian slip .
.
Well, no.
Approx 30 teams in 3 leagues ten years ago wasn't enough to make one AFL club viable, so 40 teams in 4 leagues now won't do it either.
But my point from the get go was that the existance of a lot of clubs in SEQ isn't a sufficient condition for the viability of a GC club. The stuff about mroe clubs in more competitions is irrelevant for that.
Approx 30 teams in 3 leagues ten years ago wasn't enough to make one AFL club viable, so 40 teams in 4 leagues now won't do it either.
What unviable club are you referring to ?
But my point from the get go was that the existance of a lot of clubs in SEQ isn't a sufficient condition for the viability of a GC club.
So now you are saying that there are alot of AFCs in SEQ ?
the existance of a lot of clubs in SEQ isn't a sufficient condition for the viability of a GC club.
What is then ?
.
Funkalicous
28 May 2008, 09:45
What is then ?
.
Gold Coast need to produce a lot of quality players.... which they do.... hence they are getting a deserved side.
Lenny29
29 May 2008, 21:49
What unviable club are you referring to ?
So now you are saying that there are alot of AFCs in SEQ ?
What is then ?
.
The Lions. Who are again struggling to make a profit, which also happened prior to their flag years.
I never said there weren't a lot of AFCs in QLD, I said it doesn't necessarily lead to viability of another club.
And some demand for the club would be nice. 6000-8000 to games at Carrara, whilst sub-30,000 crowds regularly to the Gabba doesn't exactly scream demand.
The Lions. Who are again struggling to make a profit, which also happened prior to their flag years.
No they're not. The Lions are one of the most financially secure clubs in the league, with millions in the bank. And made a 7 figure profit again last year.
Black Falcon
30 May 2008, 09:31
I find it a bit obnoxious that a Pie fan is arguing against the Lions and/or GC team on the basis of crowd figures. Thats a bit rich. Lions have a core of 25k crowd, a figure that some Melb games don't reach when there are two Melb teams playing.
I was privileged to see the Lions crowd grow from 11k to 37k whilst the Gabba stands were being rebuilt. Sell out crowds. Now the buzz is beginning again as the team is on the march.
If there was no Brisbane club, the AFL would have lost at least 25k supporters. Isn't that the point being denied.
On the basis of junior and senior clubs, GC can similarly support a team, an argument well put.
I too am concerned as to the welfare of the GC club. My concern is the lack of capacity of Carrara. It was seating 11k last year, but needs a major revamp (similar to what Gabba needed) and the Qld state govt won't play ball till 2015. That's when GC should be included, unless the AFL is prepared to spend big on revamping Carrara, as well as pay out the 40M that the Qld govt wants in lost revenues if GC don't play at Gabba- as per some legal contract.
GC will follow Bears/Lions path in Struggle then Success, but Qld does deserve its second team in the national competition.
I find it a bit obnoxious that a Pie fan is arguing against the Lions and/or GC team on the basis of crowd figures. Thats a bit rich. Lions have a core of 25k crowd, a figure that some Melb games don't reach when there are two Melb teams playing.
A point often overlooked by many an analyst .
.
Black Falcon
31 May 2008, 02:18
Thanks Cos.
Another thought about Lenny's argument that home crowds of 25k are not enough, is that when it happens in Melb, then that Melb team should be turfed out of the comp (along with his stated aim of Lions/GC).
Similarly, when two Melb teams meet in Melb and the crowd isn't at last 50,000, then both teams should be ousted from the comp. According to Lenny's plan, this would leave only Collingwood and Essendon (in its good years) as the only Melb clubs in AFL.
So Lenny, what can you say to the rest of the Melb clubs?#*!