Coaches must get some blame now !!

[sumavich]

The fact that we didn't lay one tackle in the last 14 minutes is a disgrace to WA, let alone us the most teased supporters in the land.
If players don't tackle or shepherd, they are OUT !! Simple, and what about the fact that we don't gut run when the game is in the balance.
COACHES - do something about it PRONTO or go away and get your superannuation from some other form of "entertainment", and I use that word lightly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ripper]

The fact that we didn't lay one tackle in the last 14 minutes is a disgrace to WA, let alone us the most teased supporters in the land.
If players don't tackle or shepherd, they are OUT !! Simple, and what about the fact that we don't gut run when the game is in the balance.
COACHES - do something about it PRONTO or go away and get your superannuation from some other form of "entertainment", and I use that word lightly !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Didn't take long for you to start on this lot.

[DOCKER CLINT]

I don't blame Harvey. He's probably pulling his hair out.

[Scham]

Nor do I. Idiotic post!

[sumavich]

Nor do I. Idiotic post!

I said COACHES !!! Not Harvey, but all coaches.
The tackle count was a disgrace, and it is when we tackle hard we win.
Hasn't been for a while admittedly, but the Derby we always tackle hard.
Why don't we tackle ?? Coz the coaches let the serial offenders get away with it, thereby a false sense of security is felt by the serial offenders.
If you don't agree, then go and have a look at today's stats re : tackles.
They almost doubled us !!

[PalaceGun]

He'd be sacked in any other sport.

To blow four fourth quarter leads in a season is a disgrace, to do it four weeks in a row....

The buck stops at the coach, it is clearly not working, anyone got Bluey's number?

Although to be fair why would he want to..

[Bradesmaen]

He'd be sacked in any other sport.

To blow four fourth quarter leads in a season is a disgrace, to do it four weeks in a row....

The buck stops at the coach, it is clearly not working, anyone got Bluey's number?

Although to be fair why would he want to..

Haven't watched sport much have you then. (apart from Soccer, they sack you for losing 1 game in some cases)

[Ripper]

It would be safe to say that Harve's was not the architect of our run at the end of 2006 that many gave him the credit for.

[palmer2farmer]

He'd be sacked in any other sport.

To blow four fourth quarter leads in a season is a disgrace, to do it four weeks in a row....

The buck stops at the coach, it is clearly not working, anyone got Bluey's number?

Although to be fair why would he want to..

:thumbsd:

[peppy la pew]

He'd be sacked in any other sport.

To blow four fourth quarter leads in a season is a disgrace, to do it four weeks in a row....

The buck stops at the coach, it is clearly not working, anyone got Bluey's number?

Although to be fair why would he want to..


Yeah i thought so, another trollop.

[PapaJ]

The lack of tackling was an absolute disgrace, but beside the midfield department, the coaching staff are not necessarily to blame.

All they can do is get a team into positions to win, its up to the players to execute it to the end. The coaching staff (and Pav), despite some shortcomings, have managed to get a rather inadequate team in some areas, into winning positions. It's too simple to ask for their head. Despite the bright start, Knights at Essendon has done worse than Harvey because they've not even looked close (not having a go at the Bombers, just making a point) - not too many are looking to sack him. Ironically its the 'nearly there' that is making Harvey look worse.

[sumavich]

The lack of tackling was an absolute disgrace, but beside the midfield department, the coaching staff are not necessarily to blame.


All they can do is get a team into positions to win, its up to the players to execute it to the end. The coaching staff (and Pav), despite some shortcomings, have managed to get a rather inadequate team in some areas, into winning positions. It's too simple to ask for their head. Despite the bright start, Knights at Essendon has done worse than Harvey because they've not even looked close (not having a go at the Bombers, just making a point) - not too many are looking to sack him. Ironically its the 'nearly there' that is making Harvey look worse.

I'm not concentrating on harvey. What about all these other hard nuts we've supposedly got ?? Surely a bit of mongrel about tackling and shepherding would go a long way to lift this team of the canvas !!
We really don't do the 1%ers enough, IMO and that is the coaches' responsibility to instill.

[PalaceGun]

Haven't watched sport much have you then. (apart from Soccer, they sack you for losing 1 game in some cases)

More than you might think. I've lived in Canada (14 years) and the UK (6 years).

Sports he would have been sacked in include ice hockey, basketball, NFL and baseball.

Two questions.

1) Is it working with Harvey in charge?
2) Can he turn it around?

I believe the answer to both questions is "no".
We're wasting time here, get someone (McKenna) who is capable of getting this club back to winning ways. We're the butt of the rest of the leagues jokes at the moment (rightfully so) and I believe it will continue with Harvey in charge

[PalaceGun]

All they can do is get a team into positions to win, its up to the players to execute it to the end. The coaching staff (and Pav), despite some shortcomings, have managed to get a rather inadequate team in some areas, into winning positions. It's too simple to ask for their head. Despite the bright start, Knights at Essendon has done worse than Harvey because they've not even looked close (not having a go at the Bombers, just making a point) - not too many are looking to sack him. Ironically its the 'nearly there' that is making Harvey look worse.



The difference between the two squads in skill level is like chalk and cheese.

[chook2734]

More than you might think. I've lived in Canada (14 years) and the UK (6 years).

Sports he would have been sacked in include ice hockey, basketball, NFL and baseball.

Two questions.

1) Is it working with Harvey in charge?
2) Can he turn it around?

I believe the answer to both questions is "no".
We're wasting time here, get someone (McKenna) who is capable of getting this club back to winning ways. We're the butt of the rest of the leagues jokes at the moment (rightfully so) and I believe it will continue with Harvey in charge

And what evidence do you have to show that McKenna can make it work or turn things around? McKenna is the last person you'd have as a coach - both Claremont and West Coast couldn't get rid of him fast enough.

ETA : I see no reason for changing the coach (it's clearly the players that are the problem, not the coach/es), however, IF for someone reason Harvey was to leave, there is no other option but to replace him with someone who has experience of taking an AFL team from mediocrity to success. I don't think there's too many of them available at the moment is there?

[Belnakor]

I tell you what- you can't critize our skills coach - some fanastic kicking on goal today.

[Moo]

Stupid thread.

It takes a while to put your imprint on a team.

[Bradesmaen]

More than you might think. I've lived in Canada (14 years) and the UK (6 years).

Sports he would have been sacked in include ice hockey, basketball, NFL and baseball.

Two questions.

1) Is it working with Harvey in charge?
2) Can he turn it around?

I believe the answer to both questions is "no".
We're wasting time here, get someone (McKenna) who is capable of getting this club back to winning ways. We're the butt of the rest of the leagues jokes at the moment (rightfully so) and I believe it will continue with Harvey in charge

Nope.

[PalaceGun]

And what evidence do you have to show that McKenna can make it work or turn things around? McKenna is the last person you'd have as a coach - both Claremont and West Coast couldn't get rid of him fast enough.

ETA : I see no reason for changing the coach (it's clearly the players that are the problem, not the coach/es), however, IF for someone reason Harvey was to leave, there is no other option but to replace him with someone who has experience of taking an AFL team from mediocrity to success. I don't think there's too many of them available at the moment is there?

Did either club get rid of him (I was overseas in the early 00's)? Seems to be going well at Collingwood under Malthouse.

I just don't see the point in continuing with something that clearly is not working and something that is showing absolutely no signs of changing. I would have bene disappointed in losing one of the last four weeks where we've been in the lead, we've lost them all.

[sumavich]

Stupid thread.

It takes a while to put your imprint on a team.

Harvs has been here two and a third years, so he has some idea on the soft as butter mentality of some of the team. The lack of team pressure, gut busting running, tackling, shepherding is a problem. That IMO is the coaches (i.e. that is plural BTW) responsibility.

[PalaceGun]

Nope.

That is what is wrong with this club from the top to the bottom, happy and content with mediocrity.

[chook2734]

Did either club get rid of him (I was overseas in the early 00's)? Seems to be going well at Collingwood under Malthouse.

I just don't see the point in continuing with something that clearly is not working and something that is showing absolutely no signs of changing. I would have bene disappointed in losing one of the last four weeks where we've been in the lead, we've lost them all.

He was shown the door pretty quickly at both clubs - the players hated him IIRC.

I love how people can see what impact assistant coaches are having on teams. What about Collingwood's other assistants? Or how about Geelongs? Surely some of them are doing well too?

[chook2734]

Harvs has been here two and a third years, so he has some idea on the soft as butter mentality of some of the team. The lack of team pressure, gut busting running, tackling, shepherding is a problem. That IMO is the coaches (i.e. that is plural BTW) responsibility.

And you expect him to sort out problems that have plagued the club for 14 years in the space of 8 weeks?

In case you forget, Connolly was in charge until late last season, not Harvey. Give the guy some time to work through it. If he'd traded/delisted half the squad at the end of last year and said he was going to rebuild straight up, he would have been run out of town.

[Chops_a_must]

It goes back to the point I've been making for a few weeks now.

It is purely a fitness and strength issue. It takes a hell of a lot of strength endurance to be tackling hard at the end of the game.

But the players were not breaking hard from stoppages early in the game, and Carlton killed us because of that. The lack of hard sprinting was evident throughout the game.

Our strength and conditioning/ fitness coach should be strung up.

Nothing spells incompetence like WAIS does. So, I don't know we bothered with the hack we have. Deal with WAIS and you get what we have, absolute shite in every key aspect of fitness and strength.


The buck stops there.

[Chops_a_must]

And you expect him to sort out problems that have plagued the club for 14 years in the space of 8 weeks?

In case you forget, Connolly was in charge until late last season, not Harvey. Give the guy some time to work through it. If he'd traded/delisted half the squad at the end of last year and said he was going to rebuild straight up, he would have been run out of town.

We got rid of 10 players last year. I suggest it will be the same again this year. That will mean 50% of our squad gotten rid of. That is an enormous amount of change to overcome...

[PalaceGun]

We got rid of 10 players last year. I suggest it will be the same again this year. That will mean 50% of our squad gotten rid of. That is an enormous amount of change to overcome...


Too late now, but what should have happened is there should have been a complete coaching clearout when we finally gave Clownolly the bullet. Everyone on the coaching staff gone. Bring in a new bloke (i've heard a rumour that no one else was interviewed for Harvey's position, unbelievable if true) with his own assistants, we needed a fresh new start, it appears all we've got now is Clownolly ver 2.0

[PalaceGun]

He was shown the door pretty quickly at both clubs - the players hated him IIRC.

I love how people can see what impact assistant coaches are having on teams. What about Collingwood's other assistants? Or how about Geelongs? Surely some of them are doing well too?

Heaven forbid players don't like a coach...

I'm all for bringing up some more possible candidates.

[chelseacarlton]

blame the umpiring hey??:D

[Chops_a_must]

Too late now, but what should have happened is there should have been a complete coaching clearout when we finally gave Clownolly the bullet. Everyone on the coaching staff gone. Bring in a new bloke (i've heard a rumour that no one else was interviewed for Harvey's position, unbelievable if true) with his own assistants, we needed a fresh new start, it appears all we've got now is Clownolly ver 2.0

And do what? What Drum did in 01?

They deliberately brought in coaches with premiership experience as players. I'm not sure they coud have done anything differently with the actual football aspects.

The difference between Harvey and CC, is that when we lost with cuddles, we just didn't turn up. We are much more consistent, and withstand onslaughts. It's the final quarters that are the problem, and that is all fitness and heart.

There has been nothing done to lose these games from the coaches box, it's an onfield and fitness/ heart issue. Isn't much Harves can do about that.

We could just as well be blaming on field leadership. Where is it? Where has it been?

[chook2734]

Too late now, but what should have happened is there should have been a complete coaching clearout when we finally gave Clownolly the bullet. Everyone on the coaching staff gone. Bring in a new bloke (i've heard a rumour that no one else was interviewed for Harvey's position, unbelievable if true) with his own assistants, we needed a fresh new start, it appears all we've got now is Clownolly ver 2.0

Ok, you win. You're right. Wallis, Bond, Scott and Prior should never have been allowed to stay on :rolleyes:

[PalaceGun]

fitness/ heart issue. Isn't much Harves can do about that.


These are two issues the coach is directly accountable for...

[sumavich]

And you expect him to sort out problems that have plagued the club for 14 years in the space of 8 weeks?

In case you forget, Connolly was in charge until late last season, not Harvey. Give the guy some time to work through it. If he'd traded/delisted half the squad at the end of last year and said he was going to rebuild straight up, he would have been run out of town.

I'm not having a go at Harvey. I said COACHES !!
Like Chops said, and we do agree on a couple of things, like our CEO but the lack of gut running was evident and Voss even stated it. There is no gut running, there was no tackling etc etc etc. These are coaches responsibilities !!!!

[PalaceGun]

Ok, you win. You're right. Wallis, Bond, Scott and Prior should never have been allowed to stay on :rolleyes:

Well tell me why they should have been able to stay?

[Chops_a_must]

These are two issues the coach is directly accountable for...

Oh right.

So harvs tells them how and what exactly to run in the preseason, and what each does in the gym, does he? :rolleyes:

[PalaceGun]

I'm not having a go at Harvey. I said COACHES !!
Like Chops said, and we do agree on a couple of things, like our CEO but the lack of gut running was evident and Voss even stated it. There is no gut running, there was no tackling etc etc etc. These are coaches responsibilities !!!!

You'll have to stop talking sense... :thumbsu:

[PalaceGun]

Oh right.

So harvs tells them how and what exactly to run in the preseason, and what each does in the gym, does he? :rolleyes:

Shit I'd hope so... This isn't "amatuer kickabout on a weekend with your mates football" we're talking about here.

He's the head coach of a professional sports club, he is responsible and accountable for every player's fitness and preparation.

[Chops_a_must]

Shit I'd hope so... This isn't "amatuer kickabout on a weekend with your mates football" we're talking about here.

He's the head coach of a professional sports club, he is responsible and accountable for every player's fitness and preparation.

No!

The fitness and strength aspects are handed over to experts. It would only be punishment where the head coach would step in, and even then would still probably consult.

Even at WAFL level, fitness and strength is largely the domain of a specific coach.

I don't think many head coaches would know how to teach a power clean for instance. If they even knew what that was!

[PalaceGun]

And who do these fitness and strength experts report to?

[Chops_a_must]

And who do these fitness and strength experts report to?

Often not the head coach.

[PalaceGun]

I find that very hard to believe and a bit ridiculous if true.

[Chops_a_must]

I find that very hard to believe and a bit ridiculous if true.

Who do you think appointed Harvey as CC's assistant?

Certainly wasn't CC.

[PalaceGun]

Who do you think appointed Harvey as CC's assistant?

Certainly wasn't CC.

I'll make the wild assumption it was either Rick Fart or Scwab?

Another Freo blunder, the only person appointing an assistant coach should be the coach.

[chook2734]

Well tell me why they should have been able to stay?

I'm guessing that not only did you join BF in May '08, but it was around the same time as you took an 'interest' in Freo?

In case you still don't get it, not one of these guys was at the club prior to 2008, gees, Scott was even still on an AFL list (in Brisbane) in 2007. There WAS a cleanout of all the assistants (except for German) - but if you'd been a supporter for more than 5 minutes, you would have been well aware of this fact.

[PalaceGun]

I'm guessing that not only did you join BF in May '08, but it was around the same time as you took an 'interest' in Freo?

In case you still don't get it, not one of these guys was at the club prior to 2008, gees, Scott was even still on an AFL list (in Brisbane) in 2007. There WAS a cleanout of all the assistants (except for German) - but if you'd been a supporter for more than 5 minutes, you would have been well aware of this fact.

Supported since '95 but hats off and well played, tricked me whilst still steaming (didn't even look at the names).

[Lach72]

Supported since '95 but hats off and well played, tricked me whilst still steaming (didn't even look at the names).

Rofl...silly boy

[malpaso]

More than you might think. I've lived in Canada (14 years) and the UK (6 years).

Sports he would have been sacked in include ice hockey, basketball, NFL and baseball.

Two questions.

1) Is it working with Harvey in charge?
2) Can he turn it around?

I believe the answer to both questions is "no".
We're wasting time here, get someone (McKenna) who is capable of getting this club back to winning ways. We're the butt of the rest of the leagues jokes at the moment (rightfully so) and I believe it will continue with Harvey in charge

Load of carp PalaceGun.

You are not taking into account that he's a first year coach.

I'm an American living in Oz and very rarely is a first year coach sacked in the sports mentioned and IF it does happen it usually stems from personality clashes with the suits.

Way off base and what good would it do? Harvs will have who he wants for next season and some fresh legs.

[332docker]

Harvs may be a first year coach, but, everybody was not treating him as one at the end of last year and start of this. That idiot Walls actually had Freo tipped to finish 3rd at the start of the year.

Harvs was expected to take our list to place CC couldn't. I think we are just realizing that he was a white ant who was hanging there waiting for CC to lose enough games in a row and then he was going to be in the top gig. Sounds like a plan Hart and Swab would have put together.

For gods sake next time we get a coach can we put it out to tender and try and get the best coach out there to our club with his chosen assistants. A WA person would be welcome start as well, someone the west might lay off for a while. (also get Walls on the committee or whatever that choses the coach so he will lay of him for a while)

Seriously though, we didn't recruit Harvey to rebuild our list over some painful years. We were supposed to be in this window period where a premiership was possible. I don't reckon he is the man to rebuild our club , i'm afraid we'd just end up full of essendon rejects.


Harvs may have a 3 year contract or something but i don't think it guarantee's his spot. If we are going to do it it's got to happen by rd15 so that the new coach can get settled in ready for the draft and pre-season...

[chook2734]

Harvs may be a first year coach, but, everybody was not treating him as one at the end of last year and start of this. That idiot Walls actually had Freo tipped to finish 3rd at the start of the year.

Harvs was expected to take our list to place CC couldn't. I think we are just realizing that he was a white ant who was hanging there waiting for CC to lose enough games in a row and then he was going to be in the top gig. Sounds like a plan Hart and Swab would have put together.

For gods sake next time we get a coach can we put it out to tender and try and get the best coach out there to our club with his chosen assistants. A WA person would be welcome start as well, someone the west might lay off for a while. (also get Walls on the committee or whatever that choses the coach so he will lay of him for a while)

Seriously though, we didn't recruit Harvey to rebuild our list over some painful years. We were supposed to be in this window period where a premiership was possible. I don't reckon he is the man to rebuild our club , i'm afraid we'd just end up full of essendon rejects.


Harvs may have a 3 year contract or something but i don't think it guarantee's his spot. If we are going to do it it's got to happen by rd15 so that the new coach can get settled in ready for the draft and pre-season...

Well there's a top idea. Perhaps next time we could have a coaching selection committee comprising Walls, Sheahan, Hackdorn, Duffield, Barich, Commetti and Zempilas?

[Scribble Monkey]

Yeah, thats right, Harvey is from Melbourne so he's only in it for the money and to provide superannuation for Essendon cast offs.

It's all a board conspiracy, and Schwab doesn't care because he's leaving, and the fridge business is good.

What we really need is the best bloke in the land who happens to be from Fremantle, and that every other club in the country with a head coach vacant has passed up on.

Turn it up. Thats the sort of post that runs for weeks on We Have The Pillocks.

They did recruit the best bloke for the job. Someone whose effectively been subjected to a 2 year assessment process. Besides, its a small industry, you think every footy club isn't aware of all the available cattle out there?

The problems with Freo were, have been, and remain with the players and getting them to work to peak performance as a team, every week. He's not going to turn that around in a couple of months.

As much as it pains me to say, they've addressed the terrible inconsistency in the level of play and effort, but coming up short.

[Chops_a_must]

If we sacked Harvey, which numbskull of a "top coach" would even think twice about us? With the list we have, and the perceived attitude towards coaches at the club, they wouldn't even bother..

[PalaceGun]

Load of carp PalaceGun.

You are not taking into account that he's a first year coach.

I'm an American living in Oz and very rarely is a first year coach sacked in the sports mentioned and IF it does happen it usually stems from personality clashes with the suits.

Way off base and what good would it do? Harvs will have who he wants for next season and some fresh legs.

They get sacked if they are found out to be rubbish. It's got nothing to do with being a first year coach, it's all to do with imcompetence. He's been here for just short of three seasons and results with a squad where every so called expert predicts great things (favourites for the flag with the bookies at one stage last season) have resulted in mediocre at best results.

What good would it do? It would do a world of good if they got someone in who knew what they were doing, Harvey comes across as a bit clueless whenever he speakes to the media. It was embarassing when he appeared on that couch show with the three buffoons.

Who are these "fresh legs" you speak of? Judging by his recruits so far I'm not too keen to find out who he wants for next season, probably Peverill, Laycock, C Johns, Johnson and McPhee.

[PalaceGun]

Well there's a top idea. Perhaps next time we could have a coaching selection committee

Can anyone confirm to me how many candidates were interviewed for the current coaching job at FFC?

[kiroshi]

yes, i am pissed with today's performance. yes, i am no fan of mark harvey. BUT(!!!), you cant blame him for the loss today. in previous games he had the time to react accordingly to the self implosion that was occurring to our players. today we were 10 points up until we were about 6 minutes out. harvey really cant swing it all our way at that point. its up to the players. i stand by my anti harvey stance, i accept the ridicule that accompanies it. today we lost due to our players lack of application, not due to harvey's coaching.

[freocynic]

I was a Mark Harvey fan but am starting to lose faith in him. I thought he would take time to stamp his style on the team, like half a season and although he does seem to have stamped out some consistency issues (we are just consistently losing!) he seems to make selection table blunders. EG picking McManus when other guys like Foster, Obrien, Hinkley could be playing.

We have a group of coaches who are hard men. I am just wondering if hard men as coaches is what we need. It may be that we need SMART men for coaches and i'm not sure that these guys are smart enough.

[bigkev bleeds purple]

I was a Mark Harvey fan but am starting to lose faith in him. I thought he would take time to stamp his style on the team, like half a season and although he does seem to have stamped out some consistency issues (we are just consistently losing!) he seems to make selection table blunders. EG picking McManus when other guys like Foster, Obrien, Hinkley could be playing.

We have a group of coaches who are hard men. I am just wondering if hard men as coaches is what we need. It may be that we need SMART men for coaches and i'm not sure that these guys are smart enough.

I'm sorry, but you need to find a new reason to bring down the club. FFS do you even realise that Foster and Hinkley are both injured at the moment and not even playing WAFL? Do you know that Brock is struggling to get a kick for Peel?

Yeah, you're a genius mate. Why didn't you throw your hat in the ring to be coach? Why, with all of those young guns hobbling around out there doing damage to their already fragile bodies and careers we'd really be flying, wouldn't we?

FERCHRISSAKE, THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE!!!

[Moo]

Oh FFS you will lot give it a break.

Harvey has only been coach for 5 minutes ...if any of you have coached at any level at all - you will know how hard it is to influence a program from the co-pilot seat.

Calling Harvey a white ant, whining why we didn't get a WA coach - give the bloke a break.

OK form currently not the greatest - however a change of head coach is a massive thang - end of last season would have been more review time than making drastic changes. We are 9 games in and even though we are not winning - we are not being pumped by 100 points week in/week out.

Also what else has Harvey done -

* We didn't trade our draft picks ..thanks for Palmer, Chinks and Chooper

* For the first time in a long time we didn't just drop our pants at the trade table and lube up. Harvey played hard ball over Kepler and went to the draft rather than concede a pick. They wanted our 3rd pick for Kep - effectively Mayne ....how good is the upside of having both?

* How are the new lads playing under Harves? Actually lets take a step back ...firstly - the new kids are playing under Harves

*The kids are responding to Harvey's coaching (and it can only be Harvey's coaching) ...to me Palmer and Co seem to attack the corridor and not go the long way home like some of our older bretheren.

* All I read about is beeyatching about McManus etc - as I have said before Peake, Black etc have been dropped - that has not happened before.

I would give Harvey a minimum of next season too. Lets run through another draft - get Des and Haselby back ...see how we go.

Back off and support your club and coach is my advice.

[dominguez]

It would be safe to say that Harve's was not the architect of our run at the end of 2006 that many gave him the credit for.

Must have been divine intervention then because it certainly wasn't the Clown.

[Scham]

Oh FFS you will lot give it a break.

Harvey has only been coach for 5 minutes ...if any of you have coached at any level at all - you will know how hard it is to influence a program from the co-pilot seat.

Calling Harvey a white ant, whining why we didn't get a WA coach - give the bloke a break.

OK form currently not the greatest - however a change of head coach is a massive thang - end of last season would have been more review time than making drastic changes. We are 9 games in and even though we are not winning - we are not being pumped by 100 points week in/week out.

Also what else has Harvey done -

* We didn't trade our draft picks ..thanks for Palmer, Chinks and Chooper

* For the first time in a long time we didn't just drop our pants at the trade table and lube up. Harvey played hard ball over Kepler and went to the draft rather than concede a pick. They wanted our 3rd pick for Kep - effectively Mayne ....how good is the upside of having both?

* How are the new lads playing under Harves? Actually lets take a step back ...firstly - the new kids are playing under Harves

*The kids are responding to Harvey's coaching (and it can only be Harvey's coaching) ...to me Palmer and Co seem to attack the corridor and not go the long way home like some of our older bretheren.

* All I read about is beeyatching about McManus etc - as I have said before Peake, Black etc have been dropped - that has not happened before.

I would give Harvey a minimum of next season too. Lets run through another draft - get Des and Haselby back ...see how we go.

Back off and support your club and coach is my advice.

Top post Moo.

The fickleness of the posters on this forum really sh**s me. For example - 2 weeks ago Keplar was an unco hapless oath who should be delisted at years end, and now the very same posters who suggested that are singing his praises. FFS people do your research and have some foresight!

Harvey's got a fairly ordinary list (I think we can all see that now), he's working with a whole new coaching team and he's got a culture to change at the club that has been built over 13 years.

[Lach72]

I just caught the last 5 minutes of the game on Fox...they didn;t shut up shop like the last few weeks...we were still going forward until the end..

Also how many times would Pav miss from 25, right in front?
Geez I just about spewed and I knew the result...

[spEKTre]

The answer is right in front of everyones eyes, demote Harvey to assistant coach and bring in Sheedy. Until you have some premiership players to recruit as coaches you need to get decent ones from outside.

Ive stated in another thread that a top line coach has alluded Freo from day one, get one and stop trying to make one. The WCE would of been in a similar predicament but chose to go after Malthouse and the rest is history, only now can we afford to bring back past successful players with premiership knowledge with winning atrtitudes.

[Tommo]

All I can say is that I'm glad we don't have any of the people on forum on our board.

Well maybe some could be it but certainly not these Walls wannabes.

LOOK AT THE WAY SOME OF THE PLAYERS ARE PLAYING NOT THE RESULT.
It will take a while to beat CC's inefficient and complicated game plan out of them.

I think we are where the Roos were a few years ago. Lacking fitness.

[peppy la pew]

Yep bring in Sheedy, because Essendon have been gangbusters for the lasy 5 yrs.

Knob !

[PalaceGun]

Can anyone confirm to me how many candidates were interviewed for the current coaching job at FFC?

Anyone?

[peppy la pew]

Anyone?

Sorry turbo, i'm not privvy to that info,

But geez, i'm glad Suma and Bluey got knocked back, just face it, there wasn't a top liner in the mix at that time.

Get behind Harves and the boys

[freocynic]

I'm sorry, but you need to find a new reason to bring down the club. FFS do you even realise that Foster and Hinkley are both injured at the moment and not even playing WAFL? Do you know that Brock is struggling to get a kick for Peel?

Yeah, you're a genius mate. Why didn't you throw your hat in the ring to be coach? Why, with all of those young guns hobbling around out there doing damage to their already fragile bodies and careers we'd really be flying, wouldn't we?

FERCHRISSAKE, THINK BEFORE YOU TYPE!!!

Who the f*ck is bringing down the club!!?? You could throw in Josh Head as well. He is 25 years old, if he isn't gonna be ready now, then he never will be. YES i know that Foster and Hinkley are injured THIS WEEK, but i'm not talking about just this week, i'm talking about over the whole season to date.

If YOU thought before you typed you might realise that.

[Lach72]

Who the f*ck is bringing down the club!!?? You could throw in Josh Head as well. He is 25 years old, if he isn't gonna be ready now, then he never will be. YES i know that Foster and Hinkley are injured THIS WEEK, but i'm not talking about just this week, i'm talking about over the whole season to date.

If YOU thought before you typed you might realise that.

Foster has been injured a lot matey with a bad back

[rotto]

Their seems to no set up at clearances, too many players getting sucked into the ball, and no outside players if he get the ball at the clearance. (thats coaching).

In regards to tackling, all our players run at the player with the ball and they just side step them and then break the lines. The players dont know how to close out a player front on (thats coaching).

The backline has no other system than run it out or bomb it to get out of the backhalf. No lead up players especially in the last quarter (thats coaching).

Seems the only set up kicking out is to bomb into the Sandliands (thats coaching).

Forward set up seems to working with leads and players creating space. (thats coaching).

There doesnt seem to any structures or set ups. The players all the time need to reinvent the wheel every time.

[rotto]

Get rid of Peter German. His idea for clearances if to go harder at the ball. No set up at clearance except Sandiland crashing it forward and our players running onto the ball.

The guy has no brain. I remember him making the comment as WA caoch at Woewoddin should have been more accoutable for East Freo if he wanted to play for WA. German must have forgot that Woewoodin made a living out of run with roles at the AFL and was playing a swiper at East Freo became we had alot of trouble getting hte ball out defense.

Peter German got sacked at West Coast, made no success at Peel and only did while at Subi (but lets face it, a trained cattle dog could coached Subi to a premiership.)

[SupersonicDocker]

Harvey deserves more time... Youguys are just scratching now ofr outlets of blame.

To me the biggest problem of the past 5 years is that it has seemed the players have had far too much power... If there is tension it is probably Harvey trying to take sole control and build a team like Geelong who don't muddle with anything even if they start to lose, they continue to stick to their game plan and do their jobs until the siren goes.

I know its another Geelong comparison but Bomber Thompson was copping this same barrage and garbage two years ago.

Our fans and our CEO/PRESIDENT have got this quick fix mentality sunken in... Things take time and patience

[Jetau]

*sigh*

We've been through all this before. AFL football is a tough business, and people tend to think it's easier to succeed at it than it probably is. Those who think we just need to get Sheedy in, or appoint a West Australian, have NFI.

Give Harvey his three years. He's 9 weeks into those 3 years. If he hasn't turned it around in that time, he gets chopped.

Simple really.

[sumavich]

*sigh*

We've been through all this before. AFL football is a tough business, and people tend to think it's easier to succeed at it than it probably is. Those who think we just need to get Sheedy in, or appoint a West Australian, have NFI.

Give Harvey his three years. He's 9 weeks into those 3 years. If he hasn't turned it around in that time, he gets chopped.

Simple really.

I agree, but the comment about German has some merit. And I did say Coaches at the start.
Our clearances and midfield must be the worst in the league, and with Hase in there as coach it should be a shitload better.
German could be doing things wrong !!!

[pinkus maximus]

I agree, but the comment about German has some merit. And I did say Coaches at the start.
Our clearances and midfield must be the worst in the league, and with Hase in there as coach it should be a shitload better.
German could be doing things wrong !!!
i'm not really qualified to comment on coaching, but peter german really has the worst group of midfielders to work with in the league

the fact that hase josh and headlnad where missing makes it almost impossible to generate any sort of drive from stoppages

i've said this a lot but we really need to start recruiting genuine midfielders. no more 6'3 athletic freaks who go missing when the pressure is on

the best clearance guys in the game are not gifted athletes, but they have great awareness, vision and composure

[Ripper]

Interestingly at one point Sandi thumped the ball forwards 4 times in a row to no one.

Stan Alves was lamenting that there was no one running in from the front of the square as no one started there even after failing three times.

Said it was a coaching issue

Wish there were podcasts of the game available..

[Lach72]

Interestingly at one point Sandi thumped the ball forwards 4 times in a row to no one.

Stan Alves was lamenting that there was no one running in from the front of the square as no one started there even after failing three times.

Said it was a coaching issue

Wish there were podcasts of the game available..

That was Mark McClure.

And I believe he said "How stupid are these Freo Blokes..blah, blah, It;s a coaching issue...and obviously they've got the wrong coach."

[chook2734]

Interestingly at one point Sandi thumped the ball forwards 4 times in a row to no one.

Stan Alves was lamenting that there was no one running in from the front of the square as no one started there even after failing three times.

Said it was a coaching issue

Wish there were podcasts of the game available..

No one is 100% responsible for stupid things like that. Sandi at some point here needs to take some (did he tell the midfielders this is what he was going to do?), as do the midfielders (how stupid are they?), the leadership group who were actually on the field (surely someone on the ground could see what was happening?) and if there was no message sent down there, then so do the coaches.

I don't think we can always be laying blame on the coaches though - the players are the ones on the field making the decisions and regardless of what is or isn't coming from the box, something like that is pathetic for an AFL midfield. Some of those players need to start accepting a bit of responsibility for their own inadequacies.

If it happens again this weekend, then sure, the coaches will be 110% to blame for not sorting it out this week.

[sumavich]

the best clearance guys in the game are not gifted athletes, but they have great awareness, vision and composure


SIMON BLACK

[Ripper]

That was Mark McClure.

And I believe he said "How stupid are these Freo Blokes..blah, blah, It;s a coaching issue...and obviously they've got the wrong coach."

That too , worth ignoring, but there was some interesting discussion (particularly by Alves) about our clearance issues.

Stan reckons our blokes don't watch the ball off the palm and the good clearance players do.

[chook2734]

That too , worth ignoring, but there was some interesting discussion (particularly by Alves) about our clearance issues.

Stan reckons our blokes don't watch the ball off the palm and the good clearance players do.

And that's clearly the issue. The players at Sandi's feet are not good midfielders or good clearance players. We've struggled with this for 4 or 5 years now, and have lost our best clearance player to injury. Of course we are struggling. The way some of these commentators discuss it, it's like they've discovered the cure for cancer or something, when in fact, they sound more like a broken record. They are not telling us anything that hasn't been said a thousand times before.

[refresh]

Stan reckons our blokes don't watch the ball off the palm and the good clearance players do.


or does sandi struggle to hit it to the right spot

[dominguez]

Harvey's got a fairly ordinary list (I think we can all see that now), he's working with a whole new coaching team and he's got a culture to change at the club that has been built over 13 years.

Incredible then that with an ordinary list we've been right in the game in the final quarter against all of the top four side. IMO we still have a good list but lack midfield depth. We also lack real quality in the 21-25 age group due to trading away too many picks which could be an issue going forward.

[chook2734]

Incredible then that with an ordinary list we've been right in the game in the final quarter against all of the top four side. IMO we still have a good list but lack midfield depth. We also lack real quality in the 21-25 age group due to trading away too many picks which could be an issue going forward.

This is what I'm struggling with too dom. I think most of us agree we have some pretty ordinary players out there at the moment, but we are in winnable positions more often than not. Is it just a teething stage feeling the way through to Harvey's style, or what is going on?

The 21-25 age group are most definitely our biggest downfall. I don't think it's so much a lack of quality, as a lack of ability to extract the quality from the likes of Mundy, Johnson etc. If even 2 or 3 of our 21-25 year olds can stand up, we will be in a much better position going into season 2009.

[Ripper]

And that's clearly the issue. The players at Sandi's feet are not good midfielders or good clearance players. We've struggled with this for 4 or 5 years now, and have lost our best clearance player to injury. Of course we are struggling. The way some of these commentators discuss it, it's like they've discovered the cure for cancer or something, when in fact, they sound more like a broken record. They are not telling us anything that hasn't been said a thousand times before.

I agree , but for once Stan (usually pretty fair) actually had some constructive suggestions , instead of pointing out the obvious.

I.e. Have a player on the front of the square so We can take advantage of His dominance when He smacks it forward.

[Ripper]

This is what I'm struggling with too dom. I think most of us agree we have some pretty ordinary players out there at the moment, but we are in winnable positions more often than not. Is it just a teething stage feeling the way through to Harvey's style, or what is going on?

The 21-25 age group are most definitely our biggest downfall. I don't think it's so much a lack of quality, as a lack of ability to extract the quality from the likes of Mundy, Johnson etc. If even 2 or 3 of our 21-25 year olds can stand up, we will be in a much better position going into season 2009.

Winning makes all the difference, If Pav didn't hit the post in the Blooze & Cats games and We won We would not be so critical.

The facts are we are not far off and the "process" in all but 1 1/2 games (2 games if you include the Derby) has been pretty good with out winning.

Calls to rebuild are like buying a new race car when all you need is a decent wheel alignment.

[brose]

imaging being mark harvey facing the press after each of the last four weeks he's said we'll look at why we faded in the last quarter and adress it. he aint looking to good atm.

[dominguez]

I agree , but for once Stan (usually pretty fair) actually had some constructive suggestions , instead of pointing out the obvious.

I.e. Have a player on the front of the square so We can take advantage of His dominance when He smacks it forward.

It did seem rather strange that on the odd occassion Sandi did whack it forward no one was there. That suggests that communication is poor between our rucks and mids. Also, Like Voss said, if he's winning 90 percent of the taps we should be getting 2 players to the spot where the ball is going.

[Chops_a_must]

or does sandi struggle to hit it to the right spot
I think this is a big part of the problem.

In each of the highlights they kept showing, there was an open Freo player Sandi looked like he was going to, but he missed them badly. And they can't rove the taps on the move because it is constantly put behind them.

My opinion has been for a long time that he really struggles with his awareness as to where our players actually are.

[theGav56]

Who the f*ck is bringing down the club!!?? You could throw in Josh Head as well. He is 25 years old, if he isn't gonna be ready now, then he never will be. YES i know that Foster and Hinkley are injured THIS WEEK, but i'm not talking about just this week, i'm talking about over the whole season to date.

If YOU thought before you typed you might realise that.

I think you are fairly unrealistic in your expectations of some of the young players, but spot on with Head. Hinkley would be put at risk if you played him week in week out at the moment, and it would be much better to give him at least this season, and a fair chunk of next too, to bulk up and come to terms with what is being asked of him. O'brien did little to impress so far and it would be very difficult to justify bringing him in. Foster should just be allowed to get his back right, and if that means keeping him out of AFL then so be it. They are major reasons for having someone like MacManus on the list who can come in and play role as required.