View Full Version : Why don't we leave Kreuzer @ CHF??
I LOVE THE CFC
25 May 2008, 16:26
I really think we should leave the big fella at CHF and let Cloke and Hampson do the ruck work.
I think it's a tough ask for him to be rucking against experienced opponents and would provide a great presence up forward, which would force teams to think twice when consistantly double tagging Fev.
I know this would make us taller than average but we need to otherwise the Kreuze's confidence is gonna take a battering.
Fisher is great overhead but is not a true CHF (Half foward flank).
So my point is that Kreuzer continues to play and gain experience and we have a big body up forward who might kick the odd bag and ease the pressure on the Fevalenko.
What do you guys reckon???
Why don't we leave Kreuzer @ CHF??
because he is a ruckman.
I LOVE THE CFC
25 May 2008, 16:32
Why don't we leave Kreuzer @ CHF??
because he is a ruckman.
Didn't he play more at CHF for the knights?
the messiah 5
25 May 2008, 16:41
i'd like to see kreuzer continue to do some ruck work, but while he is so young and team is still devolping, would be good if we could fit cloke/hampson/kreuzer in the same team using kreuzer around the ground a bit more....not as much pressure on him..
I really wouldn't know, but he was drafted as a ruckman right?
I don't think he is having any problems. He's performing very well.
marcmurphy3
25 May 2008, 17:37
Didn't he play more at CHF for the knights?
No. Played most the game in the ruck with the odd rest in the forward pocket.
Carlton Kid
25 May 2008, 17:55
Because he's a ruckman :rolleyes:
I really think we should leave the big fella at CHF and let Cloke and Hampson do the ruck work.
I think it's a tough ask for him to be rucking against experienced opponents and would provide a great presence up forward, which would force teams to think twice when consistantly double tagging Fev.
I know this would make us taller than average but we need to otherwise the Kreuze's confidence is gonna take a battering.
Fisher is great overhead but is not a true CHF (Half foward flank).
So my point is that Kreuzer continues to play and gain experience and we have a big body up forward who might kick the odd bag and ease the pressure on the Fevalenko.
What do you guys reckon???
I like the idea. He could range right up to the wing and there and in the forward line, he would get plenty of ops to do some ruck work while Hammo/Clokey play the kick behind role :thumbsu:
Mike_blues
25 May 2008, 20:29
i dont know
lol:D
He'd get smashed by the bigger bodied defenders if he played at CHF. Let him keep doing what he is doing, going between the ruck and the FF. He's coming along nicely thank you very much.
Bentick's My Man.
25 May 2008, 22:57
I think he would be played a FP / third tall role if we had a secondary KP forward. If he played in a forward line with Fev, Fish, Edwards he would still get second best defender every time and get smashed 1-on-1.
He'd get smashed by the bigger bodied defenders if he played at CHF. Let him keep doing what he is doing, going between the ruck and the FF. He's coming along nicely thank you very much.
I think he would be played a FP / third tall role if we had a secondary KP forward. If he played in a forward line with Fev, Fish, Edwards he would still get second best defender every time and get smashed 1-on-1.
You could be on the money there - was thinking he might be able to get away from the gorilla types
Shangalang
26 May 2008, 09:45
I really think we should leave the big fella at CHF and let Cloke and Hampson do the ruck work.
I think it's a tough ask for him to be rucking against experienced opponents and would provide a great presence up forward, which would force teams to think twice when consistantly double tagging Fev.
I know this would make us taller than average but we need to otherwise the Kreuze's confidence is gonna take a battering.
Fisher is great overhead but is not a true CHF (Half foward flank).
So my point is that Kreuzer continues to play and gain experience and we have a big body up forward who might kick the odd bag and ease the pressure on the Fevalenko.
What do you guys reckon???
Wake up to yourself mate - it would be an even bigger ask to expect a kid to hold down CHF in the AFL in his first year. He is a natural ruckman, and is being hadled beautifully thus far.... What makes people think that you can just pull names out of your ring and say why don't they play CHF, if only it was that easy..... Kreuzer is doing just fine playing around 60% game time shared between fwd and ruck there is no rush and expecting him to hold down CHF and kick the odd bag is unrealistic and unfair on the kid. Do you really think he needs blokes jumping all over him adn crashing into his body - look at the lifespan of CHF;s it is the hardest position on the gropund and physically takes it's toll so why place you blue ribbon recruit threre. Essentially rucking is s ft position to play after the bounce as ruckman just roam around and do there own thing.
ericpascoe
26 May 2008, 10:30
I really wouldn't know, but he was drafted as a ruckman right?
I don't think he is having any problems. He's performing very well.
Not really - one of the reasons we were prepared to offload Kennedy was the view that Kreuzer would make a better long term CHF than Josh
We are not chasing Warnock because we plan to ruck Kreuzer for ever - Hammer and Warnock would allow the Kreuz to settle into the forward line, but he is not ready to be hammered by the big CHB's yet. Let him roam for a year or two
Top4_Tiger
26 May 2008, 14:32
I saw a fair bit of Kreuzer last year and I am impressed with what he has been able to do at AFL level. There has never been a ruck in the history of the game to have such an impact at such a young age. Far superior to Fraser.
On the Richmond board ever since Cotchin debuted the talk is "let's laugh at Carlton for letting him slip", but although Cotchy himself has surpassed expectations the Big Kreuz has just as easily played above expectations for a 1st year player and is pretty special.
The ruck position is not as physically demanding today as it was even 5 years ago, so the worry of wearing him down seems more distant than ever.
In relation to the thread title, I would love to see him play CHF, but for different reasons than the ones outlined above.
Kreuzer will not lose confidence from playing ruck. Like Gibbs, he needs to spend his first year or two learning a few roles to improve his game. At CHF his mobility would be a real asset and his understanding of the game in general should improve.
Also look at the development of Brad Ottens - AA in 2001 as a FF then he gained too much muscle to play the position effectively and had to play ruck. Few years later AA there too.
Krezuer already projects as a better ruckman than Brad, now he needs to be tested as a forward.
Hopefully his hip operation comes along nicely, we have had a player ourselves suffer from a hip condition for the past 2-3 years and unlike you, we didn't even know he had it. He had a great 1st year then looked like a dud for 2-3 years and only now came back in his 4th year to show he has something with a 30 possie 1 goal game for the reserves, so you are lucky to have saved at least 3 years of Krezuer's career from vanishing before figuring out what was wrong.
Good luck getting it right, is there much chance it could need further attention after next pre-season's surgery? I never fully understood this injury.
thylacine60
26 May 2008, 16:33
I saw a fair bit of Kreuzer last year and I am impressed with what he has been able to do at AFL level. There has never been a ruck in the history of the game to have such an impact at such a young age. Far superior to Fraser.
On the Richmond board ever since Cotchin debuted the talk is "let's laugh at Carlton for letting him slip", but although Cotchy himself has surpassed expectations the Big Kreuz has just as easily played above expectations for a 1st year player and is pretty special.
The ruck position is not as physically demanding today as it was even 5 years ago, so the worry of wearing him down seems more distant than ever.
In relation to the thread title, I would love to see him play CHF, but for different reasons than the ones outlined above.
Kreuzer will not lose confidence from playing ruck. Like Gibbs, he needs to spend his first year or two learning a few roles to improve his game. At CHF his mobility would be a real asset and his understanding of the game in general should improve.
Also look at the development of Brad Ottens - AA in 2001 as a FF then he gained too much muscle to play the position effectively and had to play ruck. Few years later AA there too.
Krezuer already projects as a better ruckman than Brad, now he needs to be tested as a forward.
Hopefully his hip operation comes along nicely, we have had a player ourselves suffer from a hip condition for the past 2-3 years and unlike you, we didn't even know he had it. He had a great 1st year then looked like a dud for 2-3 years and only now came back in his 4th year to show he has something with a 30 possie 1 goal game for the reserves, so you are lucky to have saved at least 3 years of Krezuer's career from vanishing before figuring out what was wrong.
Good luck getting it right, is there much chance it could need further attention after next pre-season's surgery? I never fully understood this injury.
Mate, you're confusing a lot of us over here. Welcome - excellent, unbiased posting of late. Tigers seem to be finally getting things together as well. Good luck. :thumbsu:
gbatman
26 May 2008, 23:12
I think you make a valid point but he is learning and his future is as a ruckman who goes forward, but I would like to see him spend more time forward.
Id like to see Cloke spend more time forward but he works that hard and covers so much ground that when he rests it has to be the bench, im guessing because Kreuzer is carrying an injury and it is his first year he is easily spent and needs to rest on the bench rather than forward...
This is how I would justify playing Hampson, Kreuzer and Cloke in the one side.
Wallaby
27 May 2008, 11:09
A cautionary tale from Tigerland.
Richmond should have had the best ruckman in the league from about 2002 onwards.
Unfortunately, Brad Ottens could mark and kick straight, so the coaching staff thought 'Wow, play him up forward, and get a scrapper for the ruck'. I even read an article saying 'Brad Ottens could win a Brownlow from CHF'. So we had a crap ruck division, and a top-heavy one-dimensional forward line.
As a result, Ottens did not develop the body to ruck all day - his ruckwork in the forward line was magnificent (I mean, really good), but he couldn't do it around the ground. Got worn down very quickly.
He gets traded to Geelong - remember they recruited him as a forward. King goes down, Ottens has to ruck. His body has now developed just from 9-10 pre-seasons, and the result - AA ruckman.
Kreuzer will be a ruckman - he needs to develop as a ruckman. Possibly next year, when a bit stronger, he might spend much of the year at Preston as No 1 ruck. That may be more beneficial than 5-10 mins at a time off the bench in the seniors. That's fine. Ruckmen take time.
thylacine60
27 May 2008, 19:14
A cautionary tale from Tigerland.
Richmond should have had the best ruckman in the league from about 2002 onwards.
Unfortunately, Brad Ottens could mark and kick straight, so the coaching staff thought 'Wow, play him up forward, and get a scrapper for the ruck'. I even read an article saying 'Brad Ottens could win a Brownlow from CHF'. So we had a crap ruck division, and a top-heavy one-dimensional forward line.
As a result, Ottens did not develop the body to ruck all day - his ruckwork in the forward line was magnificent (I mean, really good), but he couldn't do it around the ground. Got worn down very quickly.
He gets traded to Geelong - remember they recruited him as a forward. King goes down, Ottens has to ruck. His body has now developed just from 9-10 pre-seasons, and the result - AA ruckman.
Kreuzer will be a ruckman - he needs to develop as a ruckman. Possibly next year, when a bit stronger, he might spend much of the year at Preston as No 1 ruck. That may be more beneficial than 5-10 mins at a time off the bench in the seniors. That's fine. Ruckmen take time.
WTF? Richmond start winning a couple of games and the average intellect of their posters increases. Effort :thumbsu:.
prettyboy65
27 May 2008, 19:26
what about having clokey at CHF
hammers and kreuzer alternating between ruck, bench and possibly stretching the defence by also playing forward
If we had kreuzer and hammer doing the ruck work
cloke could easily hold down CHF
And therefor taking the second defender
This would allow kreuzer or hampson too cop 3rd defender and forcing a fourth too play on fish
This would of course only POSSIBLY work if:
a) cloke is fit/when he is fit
b)we dont always kick the footy to fev