AFL Premier League, AFL Minor League

[FootyJunkie]

Idea for when the AFL goes to 18 clubs.

Two divisions. The top division, call it the AFL Premier League, consisting of 10 clubs and the bottom division, call it the AFL Minor League, consisting of 8 clubs.

Look at the final unified ladder for the season before the league goes to 18 clubs (2010?). Take the top 10 clubs and admit them into the Premier League. Assuming Gold Coast and Western Sydney are going to enter the AFL at the same time (in 2011?), take the bottom 6 clubs and the two new clubs and admit them into the AFL Minor League.

AFL Premier League (10 clubs)

*Clubs in the top division play eachother twice, bringing the total to 18 games.
*Clubs get to play 4 inter-division games against clubs in the Minor League bringing the total number games to 22.

AFL Minor League (8 clubs)

*Clubs in the bottom division play eachother atleast twice, bringing the number of games to 14 games.
*Clubs play 4 divisional opponenents a third time, bringing the tally to 18 games.
*Clubs play 4 inter-division games with the Premier League, bringing the total number of games to 22.

The inter-division games are there to satisfy the derby/blockbuster requirement in fixtures. If two rivals are in separate divisions, the 4 inter-division games are used to ensure the two rivals meet twice.

Eg. If Carlton were in the Premier League and Collingwood and Essendon were in the Minor League, then Carlton's 4 inter-division games would be against Collingwood and Essendon, two meetings each.

If rivals are in the same division, then they will naturally play eachother twice, and could potentially meet a third time if the rivals are in the Minor League...(three Western Derbies?) which could add interest in the division to make up for less clubs in it compared to the Premier League.

So top clubs in the Premier League are eyeing the premiership cup, bottom clubs in the Premier League are trying to avoid relegation. Top clubs in the Minor League are aiming for promotion into the Premier League for next year. Incentives over more clubs to add interest far into the season (reduce tanking).

Also, since the clubs are grouped loosely on the same strengths, it could reduce the number of floggings that normally occur and increase the number of good quality games.

Finals

Premier League brings back the classic and popular Final 5 System.
Minor League uses the old Final 4 System.
In total that's 10 finals, one more than we have now.

Separate TV rights packages for the Premier League and Minor League perhaps?

Perhaps be able to structure a mid-week representative All-Star game between the Premier League and Minor League, best of 3 perhaps, but not necessary.

New clubs in the distant future (Tasmania, NT/North Queensland) could join the Minor League to even things up.

Good idea?

[huntos]

Idea for when the AFL goes to 18 clubs.

Two divisions. The top division, call it the AFL Premier League, consisting of 10 clubs and the bottom division, call it the AFL Minor League, consisting of 8 clubs.

Look at the final unified ladder for the season before the league goes to 18 clubs (2010?). Take the top 10 clubs and admit them into the Premier League. Assuming Gold Coast and Western Sydney are going to enter the AFL at the same time (in 2011?), take the bottom 6 clubs and the two new clubs and admit them into the AFL Minor League.

AFL Premier League (10 clubs)

*Clubs in the top division play eachother twice, bringing the total to 18 games.
*Clubs get to play 4 inter-division games against clubs in the Minor League bringing the total number games to 22.

AFL Minor League (8 clubs)

*Clubs in the bottom division play eachother atleast twice, bringing the number of games to 14 games.
*Clubs play 4 divisional opponenents a third time, bringing the tally to 18 games.
*Clubs play 4 inter-division games with the Premier League, bringing the total number of games to 22.

The inter-division games are there to satisfy the derby/blockbuster requirement in fixtures. If two rivals are in separate divisions, the 4 inter-division games are used to ensure the two rivals meet twice.

Eg. If Carlton were in the Premier League and Collingwood and Essendon were in the Minor League, then Carlton's 4 inter-division games would be against Collingwood and Essendon, two meetings each.

If rivals are in the same division, then they will naturally play eachother twice, and could potentially meet a third time if the rivals are in the Minor League...(three Western Derbies?) which could add interest in the division to make up for less clubs in it compared to the Premier League.

So top clubs in the Premier League are eyeing the premiership cup, bottom clubs in the Premier League are trying to avoid relegation. Top clubs in the Minor League are aiming for promotion into the Premier League for next year. Incentives over more clubs to add interest far into the season (reduce tanking).

Also, since the clubs are grouped loosely on the same strengths, it could reduce the number of floggings that normally occur and increase the number of good quality games.

Finals

Premier League brings back the classic and popular Final 5 System.
Minor League uses the old Final 4 System.
In total that's 10 finals, one more than we have now.

Separate TV rights packages for the Premier League and Minor League perhaps?

Perhaps be able to structure a mid-week representative All-Star game between the Premier League and Minor League, best of 3 perhaps, but not necessary.

New clubs in the distant future (Tasmania, NT/North Queensland) could join the Minor League to even things up.

Good idea?

Bad idea, it will destroy the draft which is what has made the AFL the most competitive sporting league in the country. The NRL want a draft but can't because they have an international competition, it is a distinct advantage for the AFL.

Assuming the draft has lapsed it would also destroy the equality in the game between the two divisions and ultimately the non-football states would have the weaker clubs, leading again to a VFL hegemony in the game and ultimately a lack of support up North. The fact the AFL (once VFL) has destroyed the Victorian tag over the last decade has done more for the game nationally than state of origin ever has, bringing back Victorian dominance (i.e. division system) will be to the games detriment.

[stmookeyj]

Please, no more talk about divisions/conferences etc. I'm sick of it, IT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN just because of the way the comp will be structured in terms of local rivalries.

[funkyfetlock]

Please, no more talk about divisions/conferences etc. I'm sick of it, IT WILL NEVER EVER HAPPEN just because of the way the comp will be structured in terms of local rivalries.

I agree dividing the competition into a Premier and Minor League is a bad idea and I was previously against a conference system too.

After reading Gibbke's proposal for a 4 conference system on another thread though I think it is the way of the future. It will not harm the draft system, is extremely fair to all teams and builds up local rivalries brilliantly.

[Masten2McKinley]

we are not in america or england so no

[funkyfetlock]

That was basically my view too Masten2McKinley before I started reading Gibbke's proposal on page 2 of the thread titled "Expansion: A fair draw and prosperity for the AFL in the future" (Sorry not sure how to do the link)

If you are not happy with terms like "conference" etc, because they are too American I am sure they could be substituted with Australian versions.

[Mobbenfuhrer]

Front Bar and Lounge?

(sorry, its 3am here and I'm having trouble sleeping)

[walhawk]

Bad idea.

One league. One ladder thanks.

[funkyfetlock]

Yeah well I don't have a problem with the four ladders but I thought that would be the difficult selling point.

It would be quite easy to change Gibbke's model into one ladder if people weren't ready for the change.

[Port Adelaide]

Wont happen.

Plus its to EPL / Coca Cola Championship League for me.

[RussellEbertHandball]

Wont happen as long as you have a salary cap. What happens when you sign players based on 3 year contracts and being in the top division for all those years, but you spend 2 years in the second division and earn a lot less income? How do you pay the players their contracted payments?

Relegation only works in leagues without salary caps. Salary capped sports and leagues around the world don't have relegation.

[Black Falcon]

Divisions are too "soccer" and English. It always seemed that Div 2 teams were never on TV and became backwaters, and only raised to Div 1 when they found a rich benefactor like a rock star.

Gibbke's idea does base itself on the US Gridiron, but then Aus and USA have a similar expanse of land mass. I watched the NFL last year and 'conferences' made sense, even though there are still a few historical anachronisms in the system, based on real rivalries that had built up previously, not to mention the wish of NYers and NEers to go to Miami for a game every year.

There would still be some kinks to iron out in Gibbke's Model, but it does alleviate the Melb aversion to watching any games involving Port and Freo. (Port have been very competitive though, so the neg bias is based on ?)

Conferences in AFL can only happen after 2011, or possibly when there are the same number of 'interstate' teams as there are Vic teams. Either way, its not something to rush into, but its certainly a future schedule to keep on the drawing board for a time when the above conditions prevail.

[chinggis77]

A much better idea would be to have a national reserves league.

Each AFL team would field a reserves team filled with it's own players, rookie players, international rookies, trial players, experimental players etc...

The benefits are obvious:
1. A much higher quality league for non-first team players to play in especially developing juniors who often find the jump from state leagues (esp Sydney), up to AFL very big.
2. Gives AFL clubs more control over their players rather then letting coaches of the various state league teams play them out of position, push them too hard (when coming back from injury) etc. Allows the AFL clubs to experiment more also by playing them in different positions etc.
3. Can be used to develop new supporter bases by having the reserve teams play in developing centres (e.g. Newcastle for Sydney etc).

In addition - it may be arguable that a reserves league may be break even and not cost as much as people would think. The league could attract a major sponsor and even TV rights on some of the smaller networks or Pay TV in addition to gate takings.

The big barrier of course are the various state leagues that rely on the AFL players that get dropped and who would argue it would be the death of their leagues (WAFL owns most of West Coast and Freo).

It wouldn't be their death. Although it would impact on them.

Having greater compensation for draft picks and players selected to play in reserve teams would be one way of winning them over.

The biggest impact would be on the current VFL. If 10 Victorian AFL teams pulled their players and support out it would have a huge affect. Maybe expanding the VFL to become the de-facto reserves league in the way the old VFL expanded into the AFL would be the way?

A few obstacles to be overcome. Benefits are there and plainly obvious. Greatest support would come from the non-vics and the rich Vic clubs.

I think only a matter of time before it happens.

Superleague had a national reserves also until peace broke out with the NRL?

[Tomahawk Worshiper]

The local rivalries will stay if we make it bigger...with more LOCALities....

I posted this in the conference thread a while ago..

" Stuff conferences...its gotta be all about 2 divisions with relegation much like the english premier league..

As for the 8 extra teams we would need....

West Sydney Warriors
Gold Coast Sharks
Tassie Devils
Broome Bandits
Darwin Storm
Albury/Wodonga Rivermen
Townsville Crocs
Norwood Knights
in addition to the 16 current teams...

This would make 24 teams with a top division (AFL) losing 2 bottom teams to the lower division (AFA)...


Instead of a top 8 have a top 6....

Anyway I reckon that would be much better than a simultanous 2 conference system..."

*****The draft and salary cap system would stay the same...with tv air time ordered like this: Free to air: AFL. Foxtel: AFA.

problem solved....

[cos789]

An idea that I like to push is for a second national league.
We have most of the infrastructure there in place already
and the first stage could be implemented at no cost .

First stage .
Simply the premiers of the WAFL , SANFL and VFL playoff at the end
of their respective seasons to find the Australian premier club .
Those leagues are already on ABC and there would be no problem in
adding some big games which would pay for themselves .
Second stage .
Would be to form an Eastern coast league .
Representitive teams from Brisbane , Sydney , Canberra , NT ,North and South Tasmania
would play each other as an extension of current
representitive games .The winner would then join stage one .
Stage two teams could also be used as launchpad for AFL inclusion .
as currently GC17 , WS or later Tassie ,Canberra or even NZ .

.:)