Backline Reality

[pistol17]

For a while now most fremantle supporters would be of the opinion that we have a pretty strong defense. I think the past 2 seasons have shown our weakness down back. We have McPharlin and Hayden who are very good backmen but we also have a few guys who I dont think are anywhere near them.

In particular dodd, grover and michael johnson. All 3 have shown they are not consistent enough and nowhere near accountable enough. They are also too ill disciplined. Add in Scott Thornton as well and the whole back 6 becomes very shaky.

An average of 104 points per game is kicked against freo. IMO that is just not good enough. Not only to we need another 1 or 2 midfielders for 2009 but we also need to re-structure the defense. It hasnt been good enough for a long time.

[Chops_a_must]

Would have been great if Cuddles had have developed Polly as a dead set centre half back. Players with that size, strength and aerial ability don't grow on trees.

Instead we have been forced to use players in roles they just can't win at.

Mac is the perfect half backman, but always has to be sacrificed to play on the best or 2nd best forward. Grover has the perfect fighting capabilities to take on a 2nd or 3rd string forward and pants them.

All this means is that the players down the list have to play on players they can't beat, and in roles they aren't suited to.

I can see Drum being groomed as our CHB, but from what I've seen, he doesn't have the size or contested mark ability (or injury free run) to be able to hold it down. :(

[MadMac]

Well, you said it yourself, some players are inconsistent. The quality is there IMO, consistency is something they need to work on. Grover punches above his weight more often than not, so maybe match-ups are something that need to be looked at.
I don't know what's wrong with Michael J. Maybe he has some personal issues, maybe it's the growing expectation that comes every year, I don't know. He's got ample talent, no doubt but needs to take that next step to become key player.

[dominguez]

The main issue is that only Dodd, Grover and McPharlin see stopping an opponent as their first priority. Hayden, Johnson, Mundy and Black all play too loose. All seven are quality players but the mix is wrong.

[gravy]

I think the coaches tried to craft the backline into a running back six, kinda like how Adelaide works. The problem was that our players as a group don't have the class of McLeod, Johncock, etc in the way the work together. Also, Adelaide's backline gets a lot of help from their midfield.

The strategy worked in 2006 when our backline was mostly unknowns like Mundy, Johnson, and Dodd. They had more opportunity to run and create, something that teams since figured out and is now denied to the team.

[bigkev bleeds purple]

One of the things that concerns me is that in recent years we have retired, delisted or traded Shane Parker, Robert Haddrill, Michael Warren, Graham Polak and Darren Rumble. All key defenders. In the same period we have only brought in Marcus Drum who can play key defence.

[Sman-21]

Also with the backmen an pretty much our whole team.

Does freo not do any weights training?
Michael johnson,Mundy etcs till havent got much muscle despite being around for a while.

Lance franklin was pretty much the same size an shape as Michael Johnson now look at him hes built up his upperbody strength an manged to maintain his speed an agility.

Our players have barely changed in years

[Chops_a_must]

Also with the backmen an pretty much our whole team.

Does freo not do any weights training?
Michael johnson,Mundy etcs till havent got much muscle despite being around for a while.

Lance franklin was pretty much the same size an shape as Michael Johnson now look at him hes built up his upperbody strength an manged to maintain his speed an agility.

Our players have barely changed in years
It seems to be the philosophy of the strength coach there at the moment, which is utter crap.

Strength and size does not equal slower, if you are not thick, and know what to do.

[dockers_bengals]

The main issue is that only Dodd, Grover and McPharlin see stopping an opponent as their first priority. Hayden, Johnson, Mundy and Black all play too loose. All seven are quality players but the mix is wrong.

I agree,but I would say they get caught on the rebound a lot of times when there is a unexpected turnover.

[Jetau]

Yep. We only have two A grade defenders in Hayden and McPharlin. That's the reality.

Dodd and Grover are workhorses, and I rather think Grover is the better of the two. At times, Dodd gets beaten one-on-one consistently. That never happens to Grover except for when Gehrig kicked nine goals on him last year.

And the rest aren't 'defensive' defenders. You can have all the run off half back you like, but if the ball is going over your head through the goals, then it's worth nothing. :rolleyes: Hayden is clearly the architect down there. His injury is a massive blow.

Players like Michael Johnson, Black, Thornton and Mundy simply don't play accountable footy. That's why I'm glad that Mundy is generally playing further up the field. Johnson is the one that disappoints me the most, because two years ago we all thought he would be a gun player. What the hell happened to him? :confused:

[the doc]

Our backline was our strength in 06. They now seem incapable of marking up. Thorton is the worst. In the Bullies game he would have struggled to be within 30m of his man at times

[Chops_a_must]

Players like Michael Johnson, Black, Thornton and Mundy simply don't play accountable footy. That's why I'm glad that Mundy is generally playing further up the field. Johnson is the one that disappoints me the most, because two years ago we all thought he would be a gun player. What the hell happened to him? :confused:

Fatherhood.

[gravy]

Definitely agree about weights. We can't have that many players who can't build muscle.

Maybe the reason we have so many players that shirk contests is because they're all bony armed girly men, not because of their commitment.

[Chops_a_must]

Definitely agree about weights. We can't have that many players who can't build muscle.

Maybe the reason we have so many players that shirk contests is because they're all bony armed girly men, not because of their commitment.
You'd have to assume it makes a big psychological difference when going into a contest, having the belief that the other person is going to come off second best.

And it certainly could be one of many reasons why a lot of our players seem so poor one on one. They're just not strong enough to plant feet, push off etc. etc.

[theGav56]

Would have been great if Cuddles had have developed Polly as a dead set centre half back. Players with that size, strength and aerial ability don't grow on trees.:(


Are you serious? Polak was given every opportunity at both ends of the ground. In defence he was only ever useful as third man up, and at Richmond that is the only real way he has had succes in the backline. Imagine him lining up on either Pavlich or Tarrant; we would be very happy. A very good move by Wallet putting him up forward in the coaching lesson he gave Harvey this year. Quite simply Polak does not have the pace for a key defensive post, and certainly not CHB.

[Chops_a_must]

Are you serious? Polak was given every opportunity at both ends of the ground. In defence he was only ever useful as third man up, and at Richmond that is the only real way he has had succes in the backline. Imagine him lining up on either Pavlich or Tarrant; we would be very happy. A very good move by Wallet putting him up forward in the coaching lesson he gave Harvey this year. Quite simply Polak does not have the pace for a key defensive post, and certainly not CHB.
He is actually deceptively quick. His first 5 metres is what lets him down. Flying speed was very good, better than mine. Wasn't that far behind me when I was at my fastest.

I would back Polak in in a stationary contest against Pav anyday. Pav gives you a chance, from first hand experience, Polak certainly doesn't. And not many backman can keep up with Tarrant I don't think anyway.

From my perspective, he played very well across half back. But for whatever reason, Connolly played him as a ruckman and he got judged as such.

And yes, he killed us this year. He would still be very handy for us I'd say, given his size in the backline. But what's done is done.

[fat wombat]

Nathan Carol is likely to be on the market come seasons end. He's a WA boy that would come cheap. It's unlikely he'll get another game at the Demons this year.

[Lach72]

Nathan Carol is likely to be on the market come seasons end. He's a WA boy that would come cheap. It's unlikely he'll get another game at the Demons this year.

There's a reason for that...

[Alfonz]

As for this Polak talk, pfft ... the real problem if we want to go back to CC was how he handled Croad. Maybe he would have gone back to Hawthorn anyway, but myself and plenty of others used to wonder why he wasn't played permanently at CHB. Or at least like McPharlin where you could send him forward for a cameo role every now and then.

CC had this fascination with trying to make him a key forward when it was clear as anything that he would be better suited to a key position in defence, where he is now one of the premier performers in the competition (as shown by his AA selection and Big V guernsey).

Playing him forward only shattered his confidence as the focus was on him (ala Tarrant) to kick big bags, something which he wasn't quite cut out for. If he had been positioned correctly at CHB, in a position where he was more suited, could perform better and escape the public scrutiny of an underperforming boom recruit "forward" ... I wonder if he would have been happier and not gone back? Maybe, but it was still an example of how CC stuffed players up by not playing them in the right position. The #1/Hodge debacle would be a bit easier to handle as well if we had another gun key back to go with McPharlin. Releasing McPharlin for a burst in the forward line would also be a more viable option.

[fat wombat]

There's a reason for that...

Surely you don't think they are tanking?

[Ripper]

As for this Polak talk, pfft ... the real problem if we want to go back to CC was how he handled Croad. Maybe he would have gone back to Hawthorn anyway, but myself and plenty of others used to wonder why he wasn't played permanently at CHB. Or at least like McPharlin where you could send him forward for a cameo role every now and then.

CC had this fascination with trying to make him a key forward when it was clear as anything that he would be better suited to a key position in defence, where he is now one of the premier performers in the competition (as shown by his AA selection and Big V guernsey).

Playing him forward only shattered his confidence as the focus was on him (ala Tarrant) to kick big bags, something which he wasn't quite cut out for. If he had been positioned correctly at CHB, in a position where he was more suited, could perform better and escape the public scrutiny of an underperforming boom recruit "forward" ... I wonder if he would have been happier and not gone back? Maybe, but it was still an example of how CC stuffed players up by not playing them in the right position. The #1/Hodge debacle would be a bit easier to handle as well if we had another gun key back to go with McPharlin. Releasing McPharlin for a burst in the forward line would also be a more viable option.

Probably because He was the one best suited to play CHF in 2002-3.

Who would you have played there?

[Lach72]

Surely you don't think they are tanking?

No...he's shit

[gravy]

Yeah, Lach is right.

[theGav56]

He is actually deceptively quick. His first 5 metres is what lets him down. Flying speed was very good, better than mine. Wasn't that far behind me when I was at my fastest.

I would back Polak in in a stationary contest against Pav anyday. Pav gives you a chance, from first hand experience, Polak certainly doesn't.

He may have deceived you about how quick he is, but he has not deceived any key forwards in his entire carreer. He has spent almost his entire time in the backline NEVER being asked to play on either the number 1 or 2 key forward, and you want him at CHB??? And why would he be in a stationary contest with Pavlich, who is rarely ever ina stationary contest. Pavlich runs, as do most CHF's, and Polak would be way behind. If you want your CHB giving away a 5 metre start then you are in for an absoloute massacre.

And not many backman can keep up with Tarrant I don't think anyway.


So his only option for a match-up in our forward line is Pavlich? No wonder he was not played back by Richmond. Richmond also find it impossible to find a match-up in the backline for him against almost every team, and play him pre-dominantly as third man up, because he can mark. Good that he has one skill.

He would still be very handy for us I'd say, given his size in the backline. But what's done is done.

I would prefer MacPharlin and Grover as our two key defenders because they have the pace to match key forwards. He could be in a raffle for third tall along with Mundy, Johnson, and Dodd, but they all bring things to the table that Polak doesn't. Polak brought 2nd string ruckman, after failing as a forward. He would be depth behind our current tall backs.

The failure of Polak is one of the biggest things that hurt the club and its structure, along with the failure of most of our other high draft picks (Dunn, Murphy, L Brown), and the Croad debacle. Insert them into the current team into the positions they should be/were expected to fill and playing to the potential we expect of future high draft picks and we would be laughing;

FF; Murphy #12 draft pick
CHF; Polak #4 draft pick
Centre; Dunn #5 draft pick
CHB; Croad trade for #1 draft pick + some
FB; L Brown #4 draft pick. More recently Drum (#10).

Those failures are the huge cannon-ball holes in the side of the fleet, and Polak is the biggest of them, followed by Dunn. In fact turn those two around and things would be significantly different.

[fat wombat]

Sorry but you think the defensive pressure Thorton, Mundy or Johnson is better than his? You have got to be kidding me mate! You'd rather a team of players running around wearing tiaras? Panzy!

[theGav56]

Sorry but you think the defensive pressure Thorton, Mundy or Johnson is better than his? You have got to be kidding me mate! You'd rather a team of players running around wearing tiaras?
Just checked my post, and no I didn't say that. But they are all guys who go to the third best tall player (that is the only option for Polak). When that is not required they have other things they can offer, and Polak does not.

Panzy!

Thanks for that you great big He-man.

[Lach72]

Sorry but you think the defensive pressure Thorton, Mundy or Johnson is better than his? You have got to be kidding me mate! You'd rather a team of players running around wearing tiaras? Panzy!

You're calling me a panzy?

Goodness me.

Why are you giving me a choice between two unpalatable items?
I'd rather neither, to be quite frank.

[Lach72]

Just checked my post, and no I didn't say that. But they are all guys who go to the third best tall player (that is the only option for Polak). When that is not required they have other things they can offer, and Polak does not.



Thanks for that you great big He-man.

He's talking about me and Nathan Carroll, Gav...

[Belnakor]

The main problem is that Johnson Thorton and Dodd are just too easily pushed off the ball. Dodd hasn't had a good game all season, he just consistantly gets pansted.

Grover is underrated, he rarely gets beaten and always has a bit of niggle about him. Hayden and Mcpharlin are good too.

Black is OK but only if he is the only one running off his man - but half our backline are unaccountable, mundy, thorton, black, johnson etc etc.

Having said all that, our backline was fanastic on the weekend. We got absolutely smashed out of the middle, and our backline came to play. I put it down to McPharlin and Grover.

[fat wombat]

Thanks for that you great big He-man.

Sorry Gav, I was talking about Tin Tits Lachy :)

[Lach72]

Sorry Gav, I was talking about Tin Tits Lachy :)

Tin Tits?
Well, that's a new one on me...I have man boobs...does that count?

[fat wombat]

Tin Tits?
Well, that's a new one on me...I have man boobs...does that count?

LOL... What cup size?

[Lach72]

LOL... What cup size?

More than a handful's a waste, Wombat...

[Alfonz]

Probably because He was the one best suited to play CHF in 2002-3.

Who would you have played there?

Pavlich.

Anyway, Croad played FF mostly, didn't he?

J-Lo was still fit and very dangerous down forward; Medhurst was playing good football before CC eventually wore him down; McPharlin (although I think he missed a fair few games in the Croad era) could have been used forward (Parker and Haddrill and Croad for backline). Those are the main options.

Polak (although young) could also have been thrown forward. Simmonds as well could have been a resting option if playing from his proper position of ruck (although again somebody seemed determined to make him a key forward so he got disgruntled and left). Even Clive played a bit in 2003 didn't he?! More than enough options without Croad. By that final vs Essendon, Croad wasn't even in the team.

I can't help it if this is a coach bashing post (it effectively is), but during that 2002-2003 period we had Medhurst, Croad, Simmonds, Polak who were all mismanaged/developed terribly and ended up leaving. Replace Tarrant, Black and Dunn with these 4 (and with their heads screwed on like a good coach would and has achieved elsewhere ... good coach also would have addressed midfield problem) and the team would be right up there now.

[Ripper]

Pavlich.

Anyway, Croad played FF mostly, didn't he?

J-Lo was still fit and very dangerous down forward; Medhurst was playing good football before CC eventually wore him down; McPharlin (although I think he missed a fair few games in the Croad era) could have been used forward (Parker and Haddrill and Croad for backline). Those are the main options.

Polak (although young) could also have been thrown forward. Simmonds as well could have been a resting option if playing from his proper position of ruck (although again somebody seemed determined to make him a key forward so he got disgruntled and left). Even Clive played a bit in 2003 didn't he?! More than enough options without Croad. By that final vs Essendon, Croad wasn't even in the team.

I can't help it if this is a coach bashing post (it effectively is), but during that 2002-2003 period we had Medhurst, Croad, Simmonds, Polak who were all mismanaged/developed terribly and ended up leaving. Replace Tarrant, Black and Dunn with these 4 (and with their heads screwed on like a good coach would and has achieved elsewhere ... good coach also would have addressed midfield problem) and the team would be right up there now.

In 2002 Macpharlap didn't play until round 12 and was fragile.
Polak had a shoulder pop (ironically CC was taken to task by Ben Allan IIRC for playing the kid to early ) and only played 6 games.

Croad came to Freo after kicking
16 goals in 1999
33 goals in 2000
27 goals in 2001
and went on to kick 42 - no doubt He could play.

Bit hard to do that from CHB.

And was relatively experienced having played 84 games already including a PF.

Jon Hay used to complain that when He was played in the backline that He would run off and not cover his man.

He missed some of the final few games with a bung ankle , and maybe would have made a difference against the Bombres.

Maybe He would have been able to take a mark in the forward 50 something Simmonds , J Lo , Pav & Medders could not do for love or money that game.
(Pav & Medders di get a couple each in the last Qtr.)

I am convinced that the reason Croad got sick of Perth was the constant media scrutiny on him.

Same with Medhurst. GG never used to fail to mention them at 9.30 every morning.

Then you had all the talkback working out the Dollars/goal. :eek:

I don't blame him one bit for going home , no one should have to put up with that much crap.

You can coach bash all you like but until Harves or his successors get to a GF , then CC has far & away the best record at Freo.

[Avid_Avenger]

The main problem is that Johnson Thorton and Dodd are just too easily pushed off the ball. Dodd hasn't had a good game all season, he just consistantly gets pansted.

Grover is underrated, he rarely gets beaten and always has a bit of niggle about him. Hayden and Mcpharlin are good too.

Black is OK but only if he is the only one running off his man - but half our backline are unaccountable, mundy, thorton, black, johnson etc etc.

Having said all that, our backline was fanastic on the weekend. We got absolutely smashed out of the middle, and our backline came to play. I put it down to McPharlin and Grover.

We need reshuffles at both ends of the ground IMO.

McPharlin, Grover and Hayden are all good or great defenders. Grover can be a little undersized at times due to the new restrictions on defenders with chopping arms, hands in the back etc but Haddrill was no taller anyway.

Dodd was never a backman and was only placed there in 2006 becoz Thornton and Grover were injured by mid-season. IMO they've continued with him in this role for far too long. Dodd could had some grunt to our midfield and should be our 2nd tagger behind Crowls, playing on the oppositions taller mids.

Thornton is a useless backman and should be re-positioned up forward or sent back to the wafl. He was better against Carlton but still not good enough. Its interesting IMO that Thornton was absent from our 'streak' in 2006.

Black should be the only player allowed to run off his man as he seems to able to work out when to do this and his disposal is less likely to cause a turnover and have his man end up with the ball.

Mundy is mostly playing in the midfield these days so I'm not so worried about him.

When Drum is fit, Michael Johnson should only be played as a winger who sweeps the backline IMO coz he can't defend a KPF and he's too unaccountable as a defensive flanker. Either that or up forward.

Our best bets would be McPharlin, Grover and Drum to cover the talls. A mix of Hayden, Black, Duff, Head, Solly, MaJ and Brock to cover the small/flanker forwards with the ruckmen dropping back into the hole to help out.

[Ripper]

We need reshuffles at both ends of the ground IMO.

McPharlin, Grover and Hayden are all good or great defenders. Grover can be a little undersized at times due to the new restrictions on defenders with chopping arms, hands in the back etc but Haddrill was no taller anyway.

Dodd was never a backman and was only placed there in 2006 becoz Thornton and Grover were injured by mid-season. IMO they've continued with him in this role for far too long. Dodd could had some grunt to our midfield and should be our 2nd tagger behind Crowls, playing on the oppositions taller mids.

Thornton is a useless backman and should be re-positioned up forward or sent back to the wafl. He was better against Carlton but still not good enough. Its interesting IMO that Thornton was absent from our 'streak' in 2006.

Black should be the only player allowed to run off his man as he seems to able to work out when to do this and his disposal is less likely to cause a turnover and have his man end up with the ball.

Mundy is mostly playing in the midfield these days so I'm not so worried about him.

When Drum is fit, Michael Johnson should only be played as a winger who sweeps the backline IMO coz he can't defend a KPF and he's too unaccountable as a defensive flanker. Either that or up forward.

Our best bets would be McPharlin, Grover and Drum to cover the talls. A mix of Hayden, Black, Duff, Head, Solly, MaJ and Brock to cover the small/flanker forwards with the ruckmen dropping back into the hole to help out.

Very good :thumbsu:

I have thought for a while now that Doddy should be in the midfield.

[Belnakor]

We need reshuffles at both ends of the ground IMO.

McPharlin, Grover and Hayden are all good or great defenders. Grover can be a little undersized at times due to the new restrictions on defenders with chopping arms, hands in the back etc but Haddrill was no taller anyway.

Dodd was never a backman and was only placed there in 2006 becoz Thornton and Grover were injured by mid-season. IMO they've continued with him in this role for far too long. Dodd could had some grunt to our midfield and should be our 2nd tagger behind Crowls, playing on the oppositions taller mids.

Thornton is a useless backman and should be re-positioned up forward or sent back to the wafl. He was better against Carlton but still not good enough. Its interesting IMO that Thornton was absent from our 'streak' in 2006.

Black should be the only player allowed to run off his man as he seems to able to work out when to do this and his disposal is less likely to cause a turnover and have his man end up with the ball.

Mundy is mostly playing in the midfield these days so I'm not so worried about him.

When Drum is fit, Michael Johnson should only be played as a winger who sweeps the backline IMO coz he can't defend a KPF and he's too unaccountable as a defensive flanker. Either that or up forward.

Our best bets would be McPharlin, Grover and Drum to cover the talls. A mix of Hayden, Black, Duff, Head, Solly, MaJ and Brock to cover the small/flanker forwards with the ruckmen dropping back into the hole to help out.

Agree with pretty much everything you said.

Can also add that mundy can do the health black role when Blacky retires - those two are the only two with good enough reading of the play and accurate kicks. The rest of them just aren't good enough.

Michael Johnson is at the crossroads if you ask me. Too bad a kick in the forward line, he can't take a big opponent in defense and his work around the ground is pretty shit.

Scotty too Hotty is ok on his day. The problem is that he too can't defend any decent opponents. His run is good, but in reality he shoudl be played as a defender. And he can't defend. I lost my cool at him at the WBD game because he literally cost us the game. No doubt.

[Alfonz]

.....

I am convinced that the reason Croad got sick of Perth was the constant media scrutiny on him.

....

Then you had all the talkback working out the Dollars/goal. :eek:

I don't blame him one bit for going home , no one should have to put up with that much crap.




I can't argue with this (and a lot of the rest of your post which I left out), but my point is if Croad was sent to defence then the media scrutiny wouldn't have been so great and maybe he would have enjoyed his football better, played better, and stayed. I don't dispute he was a serviceable player in the forward line, I just think he would have been better for us (and him) down back.

Fair enough in 2002 he kicked 40 odd goals which is OK, but in 2003 when his forward output declined (18 goals in 17 games) I think their was an option to see how he would go in the backline. I guess at the time we were playing quite well and the backline looked OK (Dion Woods anybody?) ... but Croad was struggling in 2003 up forward and there was the opportunity to release some pressure on him and see what he could do in defence over an extended period. Can't remember if he went down back every now and then, but it was never for a sustained period.

He was obviously talented, and I think we should have tried harder to find somewhere which best suited his talents. And that is not hindsight, I thought it at the time. Croad was not a natural forward ... he had pace, strength etc, but to me it seemed these attributes would be better served in allowing him to compete with a similarly athletic forward and shutting them down.

Anyway, back to our current backline. Bar the Hayden-McPharlin-Grover trio everyone seems to agree is our best 3, the rest get beaten too easily in 1-on-1 contests. Thinking of some players off the top of my head, there doesn't seem to be enough of that Firrito-Pratt-Campbell Brown kind of desperation down there. The sort of blokes that aren't exactly that talented, but are great defenders due to their commitment. You need to be built of wrought iron to have the confidence to put your body on the line like they do, and the likes of MiJohnson, Mundy etc. lack this. Not necessarily their fault ... I think they are suited to other roles but as pure defenders it doesn't help their cause.

[TheBigUnit]

I think Freo's defensive set-up is good - not an issue IMO. The biggest improvement in containing teams will come from defensive pressure through the midfield i.e. like Sydney have done for seasons, Collingwood/Freo did v Geelong, WC did v Adelaide etc. The better the defensive pressure in the midfield, the more rushed/poorer the delivery, which gives the defenders more time to cover defensively (makes their jobs easier).

[Avid_Avenger]

I think Freo's defensive set-up is good - not an issue IMO. The biggest improvement in containing teams will come from defensive pressure through the midfield i.e. like Sydney have done for seasons, Collingwood/Freo did v Geelong, WC did v Adelaide etc. The better the defensive pressure in the midfield, the more rushed/poorer the delivery, which gives the defenders more time to cover defensively (makes their jobs easier).


All the more reason to stick Dodd in the guts and get him tagging alongside Crowley.

[malpaso]

All the more reason to stick Dodd in the guts and get him tagging alongside Crowley.

Yep, Dodd should most definitely be tagging in the midfield/wing. He's got a tank and loves a scrap.

[chook2734]

My two cents for what its worth.

Polak - never wanted to be a backman. He seems to have these grand visions of being a star forward, but he's just not. He's no better at Richmond than he was at Freo, the only difference is, they don't have the same abundance of talls that Freo do. He was played in the ruck because there was no one else (IIRC it was the 'seagull' incident where Sandi had his jaw broken in the derby that saw Polly in the ruck for a reasonable stint)

Dodd - needs to have the right opponent selected for him. He is a very good shut-down defender and the best spoiler in the team when he is given the right opponent. I don't think we can afford to release him to the midfield until there is a replacement for him (and I can't see one on the list right now)

Grover - plays out of his weight division almost every week and is one of our most consistent. He was forced into to the role when Robbie Haddrill just couldn't get out there any longer. Seeing Haddrill running around for South Freo still just makes you wonder 'what if' :(

As has been pointed out, we have too many players who are the same. If a Mundy (for example - probably has the highest trade value) was to decide he wants out at the end of the year, so long as we trade for a player/draft pick that gets us something we lack, it may not be an entirely bad thing.

Of course, once the midfield is ticking away with Hasleby, Headland, Palmer, Ibbotson and our first rounder from this year, the backline won't be under anywhere near the pressure they have been.

[theGav56]

Sorry Gav, I was talking about Tin Tits Lachy :)

Damn! thought I had another stoush on my hands. Oh well.

[fat wombat]

Damn! thought I had another stoush on my hands. Oh well.

Stop whinging ya big girl ;)

[Underdog]

All the more reason to stick Dodd in the guts and get him tagging alongside Crowley.

Yep, Dodd should most definitely be tagging in the midfield/wing. He's got a tank and loves a scrap.

But how many taggers do you play in the middle? Crowley, Dodd and Carr?

[Avid_Avenger]

But how many taggers do you play in the middle? Crowley, Dodd and Carr?

Carr isn't a pure tagger IMO. He's a niggler who still puts a lot of attention on getting his own ball. He also can only play on players of a certain height.

Crowley has reinvented himself as a pure tagger who can be damaging when peeling off his opponent.

Dodd is far more versatile than Carr and could take the Adam Goodes size mids as well as occasionally playing as an on-baller in his own right depending on match ups.

Doddy has a bit of grunt about his play and that, plus his height could be handy around stoppages tagging, laying blocks for smaller players or helping to clear it himself.

Having all 3 just allows more versatility with match ups before and during the game.

We'd still have Palmer, Ibbo, Mundy, Pav, Des and Hase when back, Belly, Mayne, Solly and dare I say it, Schammer and Peake as 'offensive' mids rotating through there. It's just a matter of rotating them to keep the right balance at any given time.