View Full Version : Well done doggies, but...
Unfulfilled Potential
1 Jun 2008, 22:24
Full credit to the Doggies on their win, injuries were not the soul reason for the loss - but I believe injuries to guys who play similar roles did not help us.
Clarko's cluster relies on precision ball use and run to break down other teams pressure, the guys mentioned below play a big part in making this work.
Against the Doggies our kicking to targets from defensive 50 was far below our best - Brent Guerra normally sets up attack with accurate 50+ metre passes to guys who can run and carry as well as being a hard body.
He took over as our kick out guy and QB role out of defence from Hodgey who did it in 2005, allowing Luke more time in the midfield and also up forward.
Meaning Hodgey would have picked up the slack and filled the gaps out of defence if he had played, the other option who may have kick started our run out of defence is Stewy Dew whose kicking to advantage sets up opportunities for our ball carriers.
The next thing lacking was run, whether it be run and carry or gut-run to create a target - Shane Crawford / Hodge / Ben McGlynn would have also made a difference in this area along with Travis Tuck.
Defence: In short Ladson or Ellis played the kick out/QB type role, but in reality would be 3rd/4th option behind Guerra / Dew / Hodge.
Midfield: While we got experience into Morton / Kennedy, which will help in the future and both did quite well, Hodge / Crawf / McGlynn or even Tuck would have been more effective.
I think our structure was hurt badly by these gaps, the Doggies pressure and ball use was fantastic, if their goal kicking was as good as their field play if may have been a 10 goal loss.
But I believe getting some of these strong bodies will help get us back on track.
Go Hawks!!!
Bulldogs Roar
1 Jun 2008, 23:17
I have scrolled through alot of posts in the past couple of days and I think some hawks supporters are making too much of the injuries thing. If you look at the scoreboard the dogs had 17 more scoring shots and the hawks only kicked 2 behinds. I think the margin flatters the hawks. With or with out the injuries, they would have got well and truly beat on Saturday. Cop it on the chin and redeem yourselves next week. 9 - 1 aint bad.
Gilbert_Hodge
1 Jun 2008, 23:20
I have scrolled through alot of posts in the past couple of days and I think some hawks supporters are making too much of the injuries thing. If you look at the scoreboard the dogs had 17 more scoring shots and the hawks only kicked 2 behinds. I the margin flatters the hawks. With or with out the injuries, they would have got well and truly beat on Saturday. Cop it on the chin and redeem yourselves next week. 9 - 1 aint bad.
The OP is not using the injury excuse, rather they're explaining what the injured players add to our game plan. Tool.
Bulldogs Roar
1 Jun 2008, 23:24
The OP is not using the injury excuse, rather they're explaining what the injured players add to our game plan. Tool.
Not having a crack at the OP, he made some good points. My point is in relation to a build up of various posts i have read.
Faithful Hawk
1 Jun 2008, 23:26
I have scrolled through alot of posts in the past couple of days and I think some hawks supporters are making too much of the injuries thing. If you look at the scoreboard the dogs had 17 more scoring shots and the hawks only kicked 2 behinds. I think the margin flatters the hawks. With or with out the injuries, they would have got well and truly beat on Saturday. Cop it on the chin and redeem yourselves next week. 9 - 1 aint bad.
Your opinion is noted but I don't agree injuries did pay a huge part in the defeat as the op stated. But the loss will be a good experience and hopefully the team can learn and improve from that effort which was at times very poor.
Pessimistic
1 Jun 2008, 23:46
The thing is we know we will probably meet the doggies in the finals and we need some hope to cling to,
Hodge and one of Guerra and Dew were missed, the othes were covered
Mullarkey
1 Jun 2008, 23:53
I don't think the skill level of the ins covered the skill level of the outs.
Good points in the OP
I look forward to the return of these quality players
PottSie2
2 Jun 2008, 10:18
Injuries didn't help, but it was mainly the doggies pressure that forced us into NUMEROUS errors that lost the game for us, especially at the clearances, they pressured and tackled and forced errors, even from our Mr. Reliables including Mitchell.
A credit to them, and a learning experience for us.
Main Man
2 Jun 2008, 10:28
Both Sewel and Campbell should not have played apparently, which would explain why sewel played his worst game for 12 months.. So I would say that injuries did have a fair impact on the result of the game!
Bodicifer
2 Jun 2008, 10:29
Injuries didn't help, but it was mainly the doggies pressure that forced us into NUMEROUS errors that lost the game for us, especially at the clearances, they pressured and tackled and forced errors, even from our Mr. Reliables including Mitchell.
A credit to them, and a learning experience for us.
Very true...they didn't help but I think the game showed we still would have won on the day anyway.
Hawthorn are still flag favorites though with a full team.
Bulldog Joe
2 Jun 2008, 10:30
The thing that stands out from this game is that every side will have up and down days regardless of injuries. The serious weakness exposed in the Hawks is in their back half where Gilham was found wanting in the key back position. While Scott Welsh has never been considered more than a serviceable player he clearly outpointed Gilham in several contests and to the extent that Welsh was probably the most influential key forward in the game. This is despite Franklin and Roughead getting 9 between them.
The Hawks also failed the hardness test with outside players like Young and Tim Clarke not willing to mix it. I know the injuries hurt because the Doggies suffered with that last year and fell away.
The fact that Tim Clarke gets a game puts serious questions on the Hawthorn depth. Clarke is not strong enough to hold his ground and was shoved aside on one occasion by Mitch Hahn as if he was a twig.
Although the club will never admit it, current injuries are a massive blow to the hawks. Not only are key blokes out, but there are quetion marks all over the place over half of the blokes who are in.
The Buldogs were the surest of sure things on Saturday and duely saluted. It does not mean shit to Hawthorn's season.
There is no team in the league capable of dominating football matches with key players missing from defence and midfield. And there is definately no one who has 2nd game players who can be expected to step in and replace players like Hodge and Crawford in the midfield.
The hawks will be ok - the Bulldogs got them at a weak moment and took full advantage. It wont happen next time.
Main Man
2 Jun 2008, 10:52
The thing that stands out from this game is that every side will have up and down days regardless of injuries. The serious weakness exposed in the Hawks is in their back half where Gilham was found wanting in the key back position. While Scott Welsh has never been considered more than a serviceable player he clearly outpointed Gilham in several contests and to the extent that Welsh was probably the most influential key forward in the game. This is despite Franklin and Roughead getting 9 between them.
The Hawks also failed the hardness test with outside players like Young and Tim Clarke not willing to mix it. I know the injuries hurt because the Doggies suffered with that last year and fell away.
The fact that Tim Clarke gets a game puts serious questions on the Hawthorn depth. Clarke is not strong enough to hold his ground and was shoved aside on one occasion by Mith Hahn as if he was a twig.
Mate that is the whole point, when you only have 28 fit players to choose from your depth is going to be tested, if it wasnt for the injuries there is no way that Tim Clarke would be getting a game..
Staffy_Dog
2 Jun 2008, 12:47
If if's and but's were chips and nuts, we'd all have a Merry Christmas. If Johno had of kicked that goal last week we'd be on top of the ladder right now, but he didn't and we're not. If we weren't ravaged by injury last year we might've gone far in the finals, we were and we didn't make the 8.
I firmly believe Hawthorn and Geelong are the two league leaders and yes you had injuries, but so did we (West, Higgins, Everitt). Our injured players may not have as much impact as yours but the three listed above would be in our starting 22.
It's too hard to know what "might" have happened if you had your injured players in, but we won the contested possession, we won the tackles, we won all the key performance indicators to win a match and think we would've gone a long way to beating your best 22.
I also believe Saturday went along way to proving that we are a genuine contender, still behind Geelong and Hawthorn but nonetheless a genuine contender.
Big Ronnie
2 Jun 2008, 12:51
Not having a crack at the OP, he made some good points. My point is in relation to a build up of various posts i have read.
Then piss off and stay out of our site maybe?
Its not here for other supporters to critique only Hawks supporters.:mad:
AC for PM
2 Jun 2008, 13:06
Sorry guys I was at the game and we were 100% flogged all day.
How it wasn't a bigger margin I don't know, I was one of those who didn't rate the Doggies that highly but after the weekend I rate them as a genuine contender. They are a well-drilled unit who are coached brilliantly.
We need to get over it and look towards the Dons match.
Injuries, etc are excuses, we had 22 players on the ground that know our game plan inside out and we still got hammered.
Lets get back into form this week and smash the Bombers!
Sorry guys I was at the game and we were 100% flogged all day.
How it wasn't a bigger margin I don't know, I was one of those who didn't rate the Doggies that highly but after the weekend I rate them as a genuine contender. They are a well-drilled unit who are coached brilliantly.
We need to get over it and look towards the Dons match.
Injuries, etc are excuses, we had 22 players on the ground that know our game plan inside out and we still got hammered.
Lets get back into form this week and smash the Bombers!
Excellent post..:thumbsu:
Alot of people are not rating us Doggies....yet, mainly i guess for 2 reasons, our poor form late last season, plus the fact that perhaps we may have limped across the line in a few of our wins.
Saying that, our loss was by only 3 points, and had a draw, every other game so far have been 4 points to us, so the credit is due, and i reckon many Hawks supporters would have been impressed with the Dogs hardness, attack on the ball, contested play, thats how we have played most of the season to date.
Hawks supporters have every right to blame a few injuries, they do make a difference no matter what coaches or supporters say.
Saying that, i can't wait to get the likes of Scotty West back in the side, Shaun Higgins [who i rate along side Cooney & Griffen], and Andrejs Everitt back in the side, all best 22 players without a doubt, players such as Tiller, Addison & Callan are doing good jobs, but are really holding down positions until these guys come back in side.
Would love to play the Hawks at the G, in front of a good crowd, with all players from both sides fit & firing!
:thumbsu:
Excellent post..:thumbsu:
Alot of people are not rating us Doggies....yet, mainly i guess for 2 reasons, our poor form late last season, plus the fact that perhaps we may have limped across the line in a few of our wins.
Saying that, our loss was by only 3 points, and had a draw, every other game so far have been 4 points to us, so the credit is due, and i reckon many Hawks supporters would have been impressed with the Dogs hardness, attack on the ball, contested play, thats how we have played most of the season to date.
Hawks supporters have every right to blame a few injuries, they do make a difference no matter what coaches or supporters say.
Saying that, i can't wait to get the likes of Scotty West back in the side, Shaun Higgins [who i rate along side Cooney & Griffen], and Andrejs Everitt back in the side, all best 22 players without a doubt, players such as Tiller, Addison & Callan are doing good jobs, but are really holding down positions until these guys come back in side.
Would love to play the Hawks at the G, in front of a good crowd, with all players from both sides fit & firing!
:thumbsu:
You belong to me, Pop tart!
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=450275
Obviously injuries have an impact, but the Doggies can only play against the players that are out there.
Take Mcglynn, Hodge, Crawford and Tuck out, (and probably some Dew) and that's 4 3 starting Midfielders, one on the bench and Dew thru the center/hb. Sorry, but that's a big hit in anyone's team.
Take Gilbee/Cross/Cooney/West/Giansiracusa out and see what happens.
(Not having a shot at the Doggies, nor trying to say some of those named are better/worse than the others, just making a point)
Doggys gave us a much needed wake up call. The team will be better for the experience.
They did get us at the best possible time though, but i think we would have been dealt to even with our outs back in. They smashed us.
Obviously injuries have an impact, but the Doggies can only play against the players that are out there.
Take Mcglynn, Hodge, Crawford and Tuck out, (and probably some Dew) and that's 4 3 starting Midfielders, one on the bench and Dew thru the center/hb. Sorry, but that's a big hit in anyone's team.
Take Gilbee/Cross/Cooney/West/Giansiracusa out and see what happens.
(Not having a shot at the Doggies, nor trying to say some of those named are better/worse than the others, just making a point)
Exactly, take Gilbee, Griffen, Cross etc out of last years team, and we got hammered for the final 8 or so games of the season.
Take Judd & Cousins from West Coke, and they go from Premiership side to bottom 4.
Gageless
2 Jun 2008, 15:19
Oh, stop being so sensitive, fellow Hawkers.
Big Footy is an open forum. He can come here and say what he likes. He didn't do it aggressively, nor did he do it without cause, and he made some points worth considering. Telling him to "piss off" and calling him a 'tool' is a little short-sighted.
Besides, I've seen plenty of hawks bashing other club's channels. lol
PopTart knows the score! :)
To be honest, I don't think we've managed to have our "best" lineup out there this year. It's a credit to the club we've managed to perform so well so far really.
Bodicifer
2 Jun 2008, 15:23
Doggys gave us a much needed wake up call. The team will be better for the experience.
They did get us at the best possible time though, but i think we would have been dealt to even with our outs back in. They smashed us.
Well said detox...I reckon all teams need a game that says "Hey, you blokes are human after all" to make sure they pull the finger out and don't let it happen again. I would hate to be Essendon this weekend. I reckon it is a certain flogging.
Agree reluctantly with Bulldogs posters and some of our own: the doggies deserved to win, and the scoreboard flattered us. Of course injuries hurt us, but they were harder and more skillful, and Clarko got outcoached for once. I quite like the Bulldogs, so good luck to them but I hope we smash them next time round.
Hodgepodge
2 Jun 2008, 17:54
Our effort was slack . . . that is all. Lack of midfield pressure put too much pressure on our defenders, didn't give our forwards enough opportunities. Also our midfield was stagnant. I think we have been off our game the last two weeks . . . last week against Melbourne reminded me of how we played under Peter Schwab
hawkstars
2 Jun 2008, 19:24
Then piss off and stay out of our site maybe?
Its not here for other supporters to critique only Hawks supporters.:mad:
Well said big ronnie:thumbsu:
kimbopen
2 Jun 2008, 19:40
Did anyone notice that in the third quarter, Will Minson approached the umpire, put a hand in his back and indicated someone had been shoved out of a contest?
A spectator sitting near me yelled out at the next contest "careful Croady, he's wearing a skirt"!
Minson copped a fair bit more after that, too.
Very funny stuff.