1,000,000 extra people in Sydney by `2021

[littleduck]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sydney-to-grow-by-a-million-people/2008/06/01/1212258647599.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1

City to grow by a million people
Damien Murphy, Brian Robins and David Humphries
June 2, 2008

SYDNEY'S population will grow by nearly 1 million people by 2021 due to the Rudd Government's expansion of the immigration program - putting huge strain on the city's public transport, health, education and housing.

A leading demographer, Bob Birrell, said the immigration intake would pump up the city's population to more than 5.1 million, up from about 4.3 million now and 350,000 more than planners had expected.

...

If the increase is via immigration its a great opportunity for the FFA to introduce an A-League team in western Sydney team for the fibro battlers to support while Sydney FC remain the glamorous silvertails.

It's also an opportunity for AFL to market itself to a whole new demographic in Sydney that is not traditionally RL loving and has no anti-Victorian attitudes. This will be after the Western Sydney AFL team kicks off as well.

It also means AFL would be on par with NRL in Sydney in marketing to this completely new demographic with no baggage of traditionally being one side of the fence or the other.

[genghiskhan]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sydney-to-grow-by-a-million-people/2008/06/01/1212258647599.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1



If the increase is via immigration its a great opportunity for the FFA to introduce an A-League team in western Sydney team for the fibro battlers to support while Sydney FC remain the glamorous silvertails.

It's also an opportunity for AFL to market itself to a whole new demographic in Sydney that is not traditionally RL loving and has no anti-Victorian attitudes. This will be after the Western Sydney AFL team kicks off as well.

It also means AFL would be on par with NRL in Sydney in marketing to this completely new demographic with no baggage of traditionally being one side of the fence or the other.

30 per cent of Sydney siders are immigrants as it is. This could be a big problem for rugby league as it promotes the idea that Sydney is a league town. That kind of social pressure would drive immigrants to soccer or Aussie rules.

Not sure if the west Sydney fibro battlers would appeal to immigrants. That is more the kind of thing that appeals to Australians. Most people around the world would be more attracted to a "glamour" image, such as that which Sydney FC is trying to offer (but perhaps failing to offer.)

A good question is whether you are a migrant, would you prefer to play the sport of your homeland or the sport of your new country. Personally, I used to live in Japan and even though there was a Aussie rules club in the city, I preferred the idea of giving Sumo or Judo a go. (I ended up doing nothing and spent time in cheap drinking establishments instead.)

[littleduck]

30 per cent of Sydney siders are immigrants as it is. This could be a big problem for rugby league as it promotes the idea that Sydney is a league town. True.

That kind of social pressure would drive immigrants to soccer or Aussie rules. Soccer yes but why Aussie Rules?????

It means if the most immigrants prefer soccer its good for FFA but for the residue its a battle between RL and AFL and the fact is RL is market leader in Sydney and would likely attract the bulk of the residue.

Not sure if the west Sydney fibro battlers would appeal to immigrants. That is more the kind of thing that appeals to Australians. Most people around the world would be more attracted to a "glamour" image, such as that which Sydney FC is trying to offer (but perhaps failing to offer.) True. It doesnt have to be fibros v silvertails though, but two teams with intra-city rivalry would be good for FFA in Sydney.

A good question is whether you are a migrant, would you prefer to play the sport of your homeland or the sport of your new country. I think being born and bred on soccer most likely you will continue to support soccer, but because you choose to move yourself and your family to Australia you will also follow the dominant local brand of football, RL in Sydney and AFL in Melbourne.

Personally, I used to live in Japan and even though there was a Aussie rules club in the city, I preferred the idea of giving Sumo or Judo a go. (I ended up doing nothing and spent time in cheap drinking establishments instead.)

Sounds like par for the course.

[genghiskhan]

True.

Soccer yes but why Aussie Rules?????

It means if the most immigrants prefer soccer its good for FFA but for the residue its a battle between RL and AFL and the fact is RL is market leader in Sydney and would likely attract the bulk of the residue.

True. It doesnt have to be fibros v silvertails though, but two teams with intra-city rivalry would be good for FFA in Sydney.

I think being born and bred on soccer most likely you will continue to support soccer, but because you choose to move yourself and your family to Australia you will also follow the dominant local brand of football, RL in Sydney and AFL in Melbourne.



Sounds like par for the course.

When people exert social pressure on you to conform, the natural reaction is to push against those pressures to do the opposite to what they want you to do. It could be soccer, Aussie rules, basketball.

As for the appeal of Aussie rules to immigrants, the biggest appeal is that it is an Australian game. Back to my Japan experience, the dominant sports in the city I was living in were soccer and baseball, but I had no interest in playing either. I was more interested in turning Japanese by playing a Japanese sport. Karaoke and Izakayas provided scratched that itch.

I don't know whether most migrants would be like me, but it seems that Australian football has been more successful in attracting migrants in Melbourne than rugby league has in Sydney.

[erpel9999]

When people exert social pressure on you to conform, the natural reaction is to push against those pressures to do the opposite to what they want you to do. It could be soccer, Aussie rules, basketball.

As for the appeal of Aussie rules to immigrants, the biggest appeal is that it is an Australian game. Back to my Japan experience, the dominant sports in the city I was living in were soccer and baseball, but I had no interest in playing either. I was more interested in turning Japanese by playing a Japanese sport. Karaoke and Izakayas provided scratched that itch.

I don't know whether most migrants would be like me, but it seems that Australian football has been more successful in attracting migrants in Melbourne than rugby league has in Sydney.

Not really. The reason then western bulldogs have struggled to attract new fans, is that a large amount of non english speaking background move to the west.

If we are talking about 1st or 2nd generation migrants, then there appears to be a larger middle eastern following of league in sydney than anything similar in afl in melbourne.

[Punt Road Feral]

I bet the HAL will have 3 Sydney teams by 2021. Far West Penrith and South West Marconi probably based at West Tigers ground Cambertown.

[genghiskhan]

Not really. The reason then western bulldogs have struggled to attract new fans, is that a large amount of non english speaking background move to the west.

If we are talking about 1st or 2nd generation migrants, then there appears to be a larger middle eastern following of league in sydney than anything similar in afl in melbourne.

Mainly Lebonese and Pacific Islanders with league. On the whole though, one of the reasons why Sydney has traditionally been the Australian heartland of soccer is that migrants to Sydney didn't pick up league.

I agree that the Western Bulldogs have largely failed with migrants in comparison to what Carlton and Collingwood were able to do.

[erpel9999]

Mainly Lebonese and Pacific Islanders with league. On the whole though, one of the reasons why Sydney has traditionally been the Australian heartland of soccer is that migrants to Sydney didn't pick up league.

I agree that the Western Bulldogs have largely failed with migrants in comparison to what Carlton and Collingwood were able to do.

Collingwood, carlton and others have picked up 3rd and 4th generation migrants. these are the kids of migrants who were born in australia and probably don't even speak the language of the parents and grandparents.
It will take time for the more recent arrivals (like the south east asians and africans) to be attracted to afl, if ever.
These are the people the bulldogs are failing to attract in large numbers at the moment.

If they do succeed though, watch out, they could become an absolute membership powerhouse. Keep trying doggies

[genghiskhan]

Collingwood, carlton and others have picked up 3rd and 4th generation migrants. these are the kids of migrants who were born in australia and probably don't even speak the language of the parents and grandparents.
It will take time for the more recent arrivals (like the south east asians and africans) to be attracted to afl, if ever.
These are the people the bulldogs are failing to attract in large numbers at the moment.

If they do succeed though, watch out, they could become an absolute membership powerhouse. Keep trying doggies

Carlton and Collingwood were getting first generation migrants - Jeslenko, Silvangi, Daicos etc. Maybe what the Bulldogs need is to get one really good Vietnamese player, or African player and promote them as a role model.

Essendon is looking more likely though because they make a bigger song and dance about their non-Anglo players. You look at the way they carry on about Houli and their Aborigines. As superficial as it is, the Bulldogs could probably take a leaf out of Essendon's book.

[ARES]

30 per cent of Sydney siders are immigrants as it is.

Stats,,,part of my expertise ;)

Sydney, now lets see...

26% Gay ( Largest Gay City in the Southern Hemisphere and known as San Franciscos sister city) Well done Sydney, you come first in something :cool:

41% Bogans...(Can fall in the RL supporters categorie)

[Funkalicous]

Gays and immigrants... Nothing against either group, but I don't think Sydney is a place I'll ever want to live in again.

IMO Queensland has more potential than Sydney for lifestyle. Unless you're jumping out of a crate and off a boat, Queensland will be the choice for many families in the future.

[genghiskhan]

Stats,,,part of my expertise ;)

Sydney, now lets see...

26% Gay ( Largest Gay City in the Southern Hemisphere and known as San Franciscos sister city) Well done Sydney, you come first in something :cool:

41% Bogans...(Can fall in the RL supporters categorie)

Sydney is not 26 per cent gay. That is probably a statistic made up by gays to make them appear a more significant part of the population than they are. in reality, about 1 per cent of Sydney is gay.

How Gay is Australia?
elecpress.monash.edu.au/pnp/cart/download/free.php?paper=38

http://www.plu.sg/main/facts_05.htm

[ARES]

Old unreliable article


It is hard to envisage a city that's more gay than Sydney

http://www.mardigras.org.au/internal.cfm?sub=Gay%20Sydney&nav=Gay%20Sydney



Many cities only muster one gay village. Sydney has plenty.

http://www.mardigras.org.au/internal.cfm?sub=Areas&nav=Gay%20Sydney


NRL Membership

http://www.mardigras.org.au/internal.cfm?sub=Membership&nav=Membership



http://www.gaysydney.com/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ian_Roberts_(rugby_league)

http://members.lycos.co.uk/grlf/

http://www.geocities.com/touch_footy/

If that city's where the boys are, then it has to be fabulous

May 13 2002


The size of the gay population is the best measure of a great place to live, write Andrew Leigh and Justin Wolfers.


What sets apart the world's great cities? While the leading metropolises - Paris, London, Berlin, Rio, and San Francisco - are all cosmopolitan, vibrant and exciting, what is it that makes them so special? Closer to home, how can we compare Sydney's brilliant beauty with the cafes of Melbourne, the beaches of Brisbane, and the laidback lifestyle of Perth?

A standard response is that you get what you pay for. By this reasoning, the easiest way to judge city quality is to look at housing prices. But economists have long objected that prices reflect not only whether a city is a nice place to live, but also the quality of local jobs. So we might think that Sydney's land prices reflect what David Williamson once called her ''sub-tropical abundance", while Canberra's property market is driven by proximity to government jobs.

Another attempt to compare city quality came earlier this year in a survey by William M. Mercer, a consulting firm. Mercer ranked the world's cities according to 39 factors, including political stability, air pollution, traffic congestion, health care and restaurants. However, how you weigh these factors almost certainly determines which city comes out on top.

How else to measure city quality? Writing in the latest issue of the Journal of Urban Economics, four bright sparks in the US - Dan Black, Gary Gates, Seth Saunders, and Lowell Taylor - believe they have cracked this nut. They argue that if you want to know which city has the best amenities, just look at the gay population.

And size matters.The argument is simple. Gay men do not have children, and hence they have more money to spend on the finer things in life, including living in the hippest locations. As such, they tend to congregate in cities where the living is good. So we should expect gay cities to be fabulous cities. The four economists' careful analysis of census data finds strong support for their theory within the United States, where San Francisco and Washington have the highest proportion of gay residents. Interestingly, city quality is a more powerful predictor of where gay men live than differing degrees of homophobia. Outside the US, the nexus between city quality and the proportion of gay residents also appears to hold true for most of the world's great cities.

How does Sydney measure up? Firm numbers are hard to come by, but it has been claimed that Sydney is the gayest city in the world. This may itself further improve the city - not only do we enjoy the gentrifying areas of Paddington, Surry Hills and Newtown, but the annual Sydney Gay and Lesbian Mardi Gras is a spectacle all of its own. Moreover, those families that have children benefit from a group who pay their taxes, but do not further crowd their schools.

Of course, the gay index only reflects amenities that adults value - hip locations, nice weather, restaurants and theatre. So Melbourne can boast about her grassy suburbs, affable neighbourhoods, and other ''family friendly" features. But on the sexuality and the city test, Sydney is queen.

So next time you see two men holding hands, give them a smile, for they are our proof that Sydney is indeed Australia's most livable city.

Andrew Leigh is a Frank Knox Scholar at the Kennedy School of Government, Harvard University. Dr Justin Wolfers is an Assistant Professor at Stanford Business School.

[Wednesday]

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/sydney-to-grow-by-a-million-people/2008/06/01/1212258647599.html?page=fullpage#contentSwap1



If the increase is via immigration its a great opportunity for the FFA to introduce an A-League team in western Sydney team for the fibro battlers to support while Sydney FC remain the glamorous silvertails.

It's also an opportunity for AFL to market itself to a whole new demographic in Sydney that is not traditionally RL loving and has no anti-Victorian attitudes. This will be after the Western Sydney AFL team kicks off as well.

It also means AFL would be on par with NRL in Sydney in marketing to this completely new demographic with no baggage of traditionally being one side of the fence or the other.

Let me get this right. There are four million people in Sydney at present who couldn't give a rats about AFL, but the next million to arrive presents an enourmous opportunity for the AFL.......

It's this sort of thinking that will get the AFL into trouble.

How about we start with giving a team to the 450,000 Tasmanians who are AFL mad and will support a team before we start giving teams to people who couldn't care less.

[Funkalicous]

I reckon NRL needs to start targeting North Melbourne supporters. It makes sense. They already hate the AFL !! :eek:

[walhawk]

5.1m - 4.3m = 800K.

Why do all the Islanders move to Sydney?

[Fire]

Let me get this right. There are four million people in Sydney at present who couldn't give a rats about AFL, but the next million to arrive presents an enourmous opportunity for the AFL.......

It's this sort of thinking that will get the AFL into trouble.

How about we start with giving a team to the 450,000 Tasmanians who are AFL mad and will support a team before we start giving teams to people who couldn't care less.

I have been on holidays to Sydney a few times. In that time, I was surprised to see as many AR goal posts as I did, as well as numerous sightings of people having a kick of an AR ball.

I live in Melbourne after living in the country, and now that I think about it, i have never seen people playing Rugby in any form... and I am struggling to think of where I have seen the old rugby goalposts outside the Olympic Stadium by the freeway.

My point is, although Sydney is clearly a Rugby city, AR has a significant foothold there, and it is wrong to claim that 4 million people don't give a stuff about it. And one of the major things holding the AFL back in the city is the population's pre-disposition towards the 'foreign' sport (though how any sport that was invented by a New South Welshman could be considered more foreign than a spate of English games is beyond me, especially considering it has been played there 30 years before RL was even invented).

[AuckMel]

I have been on holidays to Sydney a few times. In that time, I was surprised to see as many AR goal posts as I did, as well as numerous sightings of people having a kick of an AR ball.



Isn't it funny what different people see, or want to see?

I've been up about 8-10 times to watch the Warriors play and haven't seen one set of goal posts.

Kicking a ball is a common past time for many parents and their kids, so that doesn't surprise many at all. Not sure if it was an AR ball exactly as I never got that close, but a ball none the less.



I live in Melbourne after living in the country, and now that I think about it, i have never seen people playing Rugby in any form... and I am struggling to think of where I have seen the old rugby goalposts outside the Olympic Stadium by the freeway.



I agree and mentioned this only the other day. I know where the games are played, but it's simply too far to go and watch on a regular basis.



My point is, although Sydney is clearly a Rugby city, AR has a significant foothold there, and it is wrong to claim that 4 million people don't give a stuff about it. And one of the major things holding the AFL back in the city is the population's pre-disposition towards the 'foreign' sport (though how any sport that was invented by a New South Welshman could be considered more foreign than a spate of English games is beyond me, especially considering it has been played there 30 years before RL was even invented).



They wont be anywhere near as hard to break as Victorians.

[genghiskhan]

Isn't it funny what different people see, or want to see?


They wont be anywhere near as hard to break as Victorians.

This board is hostile to rugby league, but overall I've found Victorians quite open to the idea of rugby league. Television ratings for the NRL grand final in Melbourne show that as well.

Of course, being open to rugby league is different from attending games or even watching it on TV during the season.

Rugby league fans in Sydney are generally hostile to Aussie rules. There are many possible explanations for that. The ballet and Mexican insults probably come from having a team called Swans that originated in Melbourne. It might be because rugby league sees its dominate position under threat, wheres AFL fans in Melbourne do not.

In the past, Australian football was well received. So much so, Australian football clubs in South Sydney, Balmain, and Nth Sydney shared the same names, and colours.

[Fire]

Isn't it funny what different people see, or want to see?

I've been up about 8-10 times to watch the Warriors play and haven't seen one set of goal posts.

I didn't 'want' to see anything. The reason why I remember it is because I was so surprised.

Of course, you cant take an accurate picture from what you saw on a few holidays, but it was promising, and if no one gave a stuff, then there wouldn’t have been anything to see in the first place.

They wont be anywhere near as hard to break as Victorians.

You see, i disagree there. You will always have supporters of both codes who are closed minded and aggressive to other competitors, but from my experience Melbournians are a lot more open minded when it comes to sport than the outward hostility shown by so many Sydneysiders and their media.