Drop Carrazzo thread

[WeninRome]

Please Ratts drop him next week and bring in phiffer.

Does anyone else cringe when Carrots gets the ball? He is too slow and unaccountable. Gray smashed him last night. His use of the ball is terrible and is a real weaklink in our team.

I think we need to drop him for either Phyff or ando.

what does everyone else think?

[Murphinator]

Regardless, it is quite hard to replace 25+ possessions on a weekly basis.

[Benny_]

Do you really think Gray killed him, with his 9 touches and 1 goal?

[CarltonFan]

carrots may have bad disposal, but at least he runs and runs and runs and is hard at it. so many times yesterday he was there to help out our defenders getting the ball out of defence. without him our backline would not have looked as good as it did imo.



would much prefer carrazo over heath 'nancy boy' scotland

[WeninRome]

Do you really think Gray killed him, with his 9 touches and 1 goal?

If it had been a better player it would have hurt us more. Carrazzo was constantly 5 meters behind gray on the lead. He got smashed in his accountability for him.

If Gray had slotted that goal with about 10 to go it may have been a different story.

[WeninRome]

Regardless, it is quite hard to replace 25+ possessions on a weekly basis.

and what exactly does he do with the 25 possessions?

I would much rather an accountable back pocket in the team. He is not good enough to play in our midfield.

[WeninRome]

carrots may have bad disposal, but at least he runs and runs and runs and is hard at it. so many times yesterday he was there to help out our defenders getting the ball out of defence. without him our backline would not have looked as good as it did imo.



would much prefer carrazo over heath 'nancy boy' scotland

He was there to help because he was playing in the back pocket on Gray, and where was Gray at the time? not with Carrots, which means he was loose somewhere.

[CarltonFan]

He was there to help because he was playing in the back pocket on Gray, and where was Gray at the time? not with Carrots, which means he was loose somewhere.

so when we are trying to clear the ball out from defence you actually want carrazzo to man up and not leave gray loose somewhere?

[WeninRome]

so when we are trying to clear the ball out from defence you actually want carrazzo to man up and not leave gray loose somewhere?

I don't want Carrazzo to deliver the ball full stop. As a backman he is way too loose.

As long as him and Scotland are in our side we will not play finals.

[Blue Dimension]

Carrazzo won't be dropped. Too important. We'll need him next week especially against the Pies.

[WeninRome]

Carrazzo won't be dropped. Too important. We'll need him next week especially against the Pies.


How is important? He constantly turns the ball over and is slow and un accountable.
I think Joey Anderson could do a much better job, its time we started to give him and Benji a go to see if they can make it or not

[bluegal1983]

In our current line-up, Carrats is best suited to a back pocket on the oppositions small forward.

[Feva]

Havent been that happy with his season so far but was quite happy with his game last night.

Definitely wont be dropped.

[crackers111taz]

Take this as you like, but seriously some of you people are pathetic sometimes.....

The TEAM has a good win, one player has a night off, and you lot are looking to give them the ar$e.....

I suppose we should trade/delist him as well, I remember hearing this type of bull$hit about Bower, Walker, Saddo, Russell, Jamo, Bentick, Wiggo, OhAilpin, Fevola, Stevo, Bannister etc etc at different times over the last few years.....

The facts are they are all contributors and at the moment the TEAM is going O.K, let's just leave it as it is, I'm sure the coaching panel/selection staff have a fairly good idea of who should and shouldn't be playing, I seriously doubt that any of the opinions on here will be taken too seriously.....

[pidge]

I don't want Carrazzo to deliver the ball full stop. As a backman he is way too loose.

As long as him and Scotland are in our side we will not play finals.
are u serious scotland is a gun he gets alot of touches and clears the back line pretty good as for carazzo he hasnt got the best disposal but still runs all day and averages about 28 touches a game with about 6 maybe 7 clangers thats still a fair bit of decent touches

[CarltonFan]

How is important? He constantly turns the ball over and is slow and un accountable.
I think Joey Anderson could do a much better job, its time we started to give him and Benji a go to see if they can make it or not

im not a carrazzo fan, but you have to be blind to not see how important he is to our current team. the coaches know this, and knowledgable supporters can see this, but i guess flog's like yourself cant. what a shame.

[Quid]

YOU GUYS ARE MAD!

Carrots is an important part of our side and i can't believe people are bagging Scotto....

Be a carlton SUPPORTER! If you want to put down hard working and vital players such as these two workhorses then put on a black and white guernsey and barrack for the scum nxt wk!

[pidge]

YOU GUYS ARE MAD!

Carrots is an important part of our side and i can't believe people are bagging Scotto....

Be a carlton SUPPORTER! If you want to put down hard working and vital players such as these two workhorses then put on a black and white guernsey and barrack for the scum nxt wk!
couldnt of said it better

[WeninRome]

are u serious scotland is a gun he gets alot of touches and clears the back line pretty good as for carazzo he hasnt got the best disposal but still runs all day and averages about 28 touches a game with about 6 maybe 7 clangers thats still a fair bit of decent touches

so what if he gets x amount of touches? what about accountability? and hardness at the ball

[one_twelve112]

I attended the game. Carrots' kicking was no worse than anyones else's last night, including our beloved Murphys (6 clangers) and best disposer of the ball by foot, Nick Stevens. Carrozzo's ball handling last night was first clash in the wet, infact, so much better than any other player on the field. I was amazed. One touch disposal, single handed gathering and first time pickups, he also kept his feet more than most.I also believe (from first hand experience) that he is extremely well liked and respected by teammates.

[WeninRome]

Take this as you like, but seriously some of you people are pathetic sometimes.....

The TEAM has a good win, one player has a night off, and you lot are looking to give them the ar$e.....

I suppose we should trade/delist him as well, I remember hearing this type of bull$hit about Bower, Walker, Saddo, Russell, Jamo, Bentick, Wiggo, OhAilpin, Fevola, Stevo, Bannister etc etc at different times over the last few years.....

The facts are they are all contributors and at the moment the TEAM is going O.K, let's just leave it as it is, I'm sure the coaching panel/selection staff have a fairly good idea of who should and shouldn't be playing, I seriously doubt that any of the opinions on here will be taken too seriously.....

You have me wrong mate, Im not talking about Carrazzo having an off night. Im talking about all this year.

My main concerns are the following, and correct me if im wrong

A. Amount of possessions mean very little if you are playing as a back pocket, your number one priority should be to be accountable and play man on man.
B. Carrots does get a lot of the ball but he uses it ineffectively and constantly turns it over.
C. I really think that it is time we started to give the likes of Anderson and Benjamin a go to see whether they can sustain a spot on the list next year.

Carrots would be a very important player to us if he didnt turn the ball over so much. It is not a personal attack but more an attack on his disposal.

[WeninRome]

I attended the game. Carrots' kicking was no worse than anyones else's last night, including our beloved Murphys (6 clangers) and best disposer of the ball by foot, Nick Stevens. Carrozzo's ball handling last night was first clash in the wet, infact, so much better than any other player on the field. I was amazed. One touch disposal, single handed gathering and first time pickups, he also kept his feet more than most.I also believe (from first hand experience) that he is extremely well liked and respected by teammates.

The thing is Carrots turns the ball over when has plenty of time. Murphy does when he is under pressure, bad that one kick straight to the opp, which was horrible.

David Teague was very well liked by the players, does this mean he deserved to stay on the list?

[pidge]

personally i prob wouldnt put him in a pocket he would probably be more suited to a running half back flank. he doesnt turn it over all the time and does alot of good things. like it has been said last nite his player got 9 touches 1 goal sounds pretty accountabl to me

[one_twelve112]

The thing is Carrots turns the ball over when has plenty of time. Murphy does when he is under pressure, bad that one kick straight to the opp, which was horrible.

David Teague was very well liked by the players, does this mean he deserved to stay on the list?
Dropping him this week for turning the ball over would send a very poor message to the other players. I don't think people that weren't at AAMI can appreciate how trying the conditions were (even for Vic supporters sitting amongst the feral's). Carrots worked extremely hard off the ball, and while others where falling over aswell as disposing poorly he was keeping his feet and holding the ball. I agree his footskill errors are at times frustrating, and I for one can get pretty annoyed, I thought Sunday arvo was one of his better games.

[Cruiser23]

I was one to say drop him a few weeks back and i'm happy to admit it. He was playing more of a midfield role at the time and IMO he can't be appart of our midfield group, he doesn't have the tools to do so.

I think Ratten has figured this out and is now starting to play him in a defensive role that is more worried about the man than the ball, played well last night i might add. He has 79% effectiveness with his possessions but only 5 of his 25 touches are contested which shows that he doesn't have good disposal in a contested position. Also he isn't an in and under player because 5 out of 25 is not good enough to be one but he is hard at the ball and puts in week in week out.

Keep playing him in this defensive role that Ratten seems to be giving him, play him on Davis this week and keep playing him on small forwards. If he starts dropping his defensive duties and start becoming less accountable, he has to be dropped because he has no attacking side to his game what so ever.

[WeninRome]

Dropping him this week for turning the ball over would send a very poor message to the other players. I don't think people that weren't at AAMI can appreciate how trying the conditions were (even for Vic supporters sitting amongst the feral's). Carrots worked extremely hard off the ball, and while others where falling over aswell as disposing poorly he was keeping his feet and holding the ball. I agree his footskill errors are at times frustrating, and I for one can get pretty annoyed, I thought Sunday arvo was one of his better games.

Yeah you are right, one cannot tell as well from tv as from being actually there. If what you say is correct then I stand to be corrected.

If he did all the things you mentioned then I am wrong.

I would like to get your opinion on his accountability though, how was that last night? might be a bit hard to judge from tv

[Blu3_Boy]

carrots may have bad disposal, but at least he runs and runs and runs and is hard at it. so many times yesterday he was there to help out our defenders getting the ball out of defence. without him our backline would not have looked as good as it did imo.



would much prefer carrazo over heath 'nancy boy' scotland

HAHAHAHAHA lol that made me laugh hahahaha! :thumbsu:

[WeninRome]

I was one to say drop him a few weeks back and i'm happy to admit it. He was playing more of a midfield role at the time and IMO he can't be appart of our midfield group, he doesn't have the tools to do so.

I think Ratten has figured this out and is now starting to play him in a defensive role that is more worried about the man than the ball, played well last night i might add. He has 79% effectiveness with his possessions but only 5 of his 25 touches are contested which shows that he doesn't have good disposal in a contested position. Also he isn't an in and under player because 5 out of 25 is not good enough to be one but he is hard at the ball and puts in week in week out.

Keep playing him in this defensive role that Ratten seems to be giving him, play him on Davis this week and keep playing him on small forwards. If he starts dropping his defensive duties and start becoming less accountable, he has to be dropped because he has no attacking side to his game what so ever.

these are my exact thoughts. It's not a personal attack on the guy, just his ability on the field

[Five]

Not getting much support here Bluejudd. (Never a good thread title - esp after an incredible win)
Won't be dropped
Did struggle a bit one on one last night and does need to embrace the new backline running policy (we are modelling ourselves on Geelong)
Not sure where his best posn is

[WeninRome]

Not getting much support here Bluejudd. (Never a good thread title - esp after an incredible win)
Won't be dropped
Did struggle a bit one on one last night and does need to embrace the new backline running policy (we are modelling ourselves on Geelong)
Not sure where his best posn is

It was never going to be a popular thread, and Ratts would not be very popular if he did it, but sometimes hard decisions need to be made.

I knew I was going to get pumped for putting this thread up but it is worthy as it provides a good sphere for debate.

[Five]

I was one to say drop him a few weeks back and i'm happy to admit it. He was playing more of a midfield role at the time and IMO he can't be appart of our midfield group, he doesn't have the tools to do so.

I think Ratten has figured this out and is now starting to play him in a defensive role that is more worried about the man than the ball, played well last night i might add. He has 79% effectiveness with his possessions but only 5 of his 25 touches are contested which shows that he doesn't have good disposal in a contested position. Also he isn't an in and under player because 5 out of 25 is not good enough to be one but he is hard at the ball and puts in week in week out.

Keep playing him in this defensive role that Ratten seems to be giving him, play him on Davis this week and keep playing him on small forwards. If he starts dropping his defensive duties and start becoming less accountable, he has to be dropped because he has no attacking side to his game what so ever.

How many contested possies do you think he is supposed to have lol
Apart from Waite who has to fly for contested marks, Gibbs who is also a defensive mid, is the only other backman to have more

[Cruiser23]

How many contested possies do you think he is supposed to have lol
Apart from Waite who has to fly for contested marks, Gibbs who is also a defensive mid, is the only other backman to have more

A lot more for someone who has 25+ touches each week and supposedly was one of our inside midfielders. He should be used as a defended and not as a midfielder, if he can't hold down a defensive spot he should be dropped.

He hasn't spent anywhere near the amount of time in defence than the other two you mention, he has played most of his time as a midfielder.

I'm not saying he should be dropped but what i am saying is that he should not play in the midfield or forward of the centre, he add nothing to us in that area.

[WeninRome]

I honestly believe that opposition coaches know that he does nothing with the ball and thus don't bother manning him up when he has a go through the middle. This is why he racks up so many possessions

[EddieBettsIsAChamp]

Guh...*Slaps forehead*

It's the same old Bentick argument.

[pidge]

A lot more for someone who has 25+ touches each week and supposedly was one of our inside midfielders. He should be used as a defended and not as a midfielder, if he can't hold down a defensive spot he should be dropped.

He hasn't spent anywhere near the amount of time in defence than the other two you mention, he has played most of his time as a midfielder.

I'm not saying he should be dropped but what i am saying is that he should not play in the midfield or forward of the centre, he add nothing to us in that area.
u named the thread drop carazzo how are u not saying he should be dropped

[WeninRome]

Guh...*Slaps forehead*

It's the same old Bentick argument.

No its not!

Benticks has a position in the team he gets in and under and tackles.

The question is being asked that if Carrazzo cannot fulfill his role as a defender where is his position?

[WeninRome]

u named the thread drop carazzo how are u not saying he should be dropped

I started the thread mate, now be a good boy and say sorry haha

[pidge]

I started the thread mate, now be a good boy and say sorry haha
yeh u started it sayin he should be dropped now ur saying he shouldnt make up ur mind

[Blue Dimension]

How is important? He constantly turns the ball over and is slow and un accountable.
I think Joey Anderson could do a much better job, its time we started to give him and Benji a go to see if they can make it or not

According to reports he did not perform well for the Bullants yesterday.

Carrazzo is an important part of our side and will not be dropped plain and simple.

[Cruiser23]

yeh u started it sayin he should be dropped now ur saying he shouldnt make up ur mind

What are you on about mate? I think you should read this thread again and then reply back because you are making no sense.

[WeninRome]

yeh u started it sayin he should be dropped now ur saying he shouldnt make up ur mind

hahah.. I started the thread and I do believe he should be dropped even if its for one week.

when have i stated otherwise champ?

[pidge]

Please Ratts drop him next week and bring in phiffer.

Does anyone else cringe when Carrots gets the ball? He is too slow and unaccountable. Gray smashed him last night. His use of the ball is terrible and is a real weaklink in our team.

I think we need to drop him for either Phyff or ando.

what does everyone else think?
and just recently u said he shouldnt be dropped

[WeninRome]

and just recently u said he shouldnt be dropped


can you please find the quote when i said he shouldn't be dropped?

I am willing to get pumped for this thread but I am not willing to admit i have subsequently changed my mind?

[walshy93]

Carrazzo - 83% effectiveness last night. Top 5 in the team.

[WeninRome]

Carrazzo - 83% effectiveness last night. Top 5 in the team.

do to 100% uncontested possessions

[EddieBettsIsAChamp]

No its not!

Benticks has a position in the team he gets in and under and tackles.

The question is being asked that if Carrazzo cannot fulfill his role as a defender where is his position?
Just like Carrazzo has a position in the team in the back pocket, clearing the ball from defense.

Don't like it? Take it up with Brett Ratten instead of b*tching about it on an internet forum.:thumbsu:

[WeninRome]

Just like Carrazzo has a position in the team in the back pocket, clearing the ball from defense.

Don't like it? Take it up with Brett Ratten instead of b*tching about it on an internet forum.:thumbsu:

Thats what internet forums are for champ....

for supporters of a club to have a discussion.

Its a public sphere mate, thats exactly the reason it is here for.

We all have differences of opinions, I have not made it a personal attack at all, and i haven't towards any other posters, but if you want to make it a personal attack on me then bring it on. If we all had the same opinions on things then this world would be a very, very boring place.

[WeninRome]

Just like Carrazzo has a position in the team in the back pocket, clearing the ball from defense.

Don't like it? Take it up with Brett Ratten instead of b*tching about it on an internet forum.:thumbsu:

Also I think you will find, if you read the thread correctly, it was suggested that carrots can no longer play in the midfield but in a defensive role.

If he is unable to play this role then he should get dropped as he has no value to the team.

If he can play this role then he should stay as he adds value to the team.

[Cruiser23]

Also I think you will find, if you read the thread correctly, it was suggested that carrots can no longer play in the midfield but in a defensive role.

If he is unable to play this role then he should get dropped as he has no value to the team.

If he can play this role then he should stay as he adds value to the team.

I sure if this was your opening statement, you would get a lot more followers. I think you've just got everyone angry because of 'Drop Carrazzo'.

I mean i've stated it before i would have liked him to be dropped a few weeks ago because he doesn't have a place in our midfield and didn't seem to be able to hold down a defensive spot. I stick by my word that he isn't good enough to play in our midfield but from what i've seen in the past few weeks, he definately has a spot as a small defender and is important to our team.

He should not be dropped as of yet but he definately, in my mind, is much more likely to get dropped now because he doesn't add anything to our team offensively.

[EddieBettsIsAChamp]

Also I think you will find, if you read the thread correctly, it was suggested that carrots can no longer play in the midfield but in a defensive role.

If he is unable to play this role then he should get dropped as he has no value to the team.

If he can play this role then he should stay as he adds value to the team.
Hence why the Razzle has been playing in the back pocket lately?

[WeninRome]

Hence why the Razzle has been playing in the back pocket lately?

Yeah he has, but has he been doing this successfully?

I guess we will find out when he gets a really good test against Medhurst or dids this week.

[Five]

A lot more for someone who has 25+ touches each week and supposedly was one of our inside midfielders. He should be used as a defended and not as a midfielder, if he can't hold down a defensive spot he should be dropped.

He hasn't spent anywhere near the amount of time in defence than the other two you mention, he has played most of his time as a midfielder.

I'm not saying he should be dropped but what i am saying is that he should not play in the midfield or forward of the centre, he add nothing to us in that area.

You have been at different games to me then - he has not been an inside midfielder and even if he was apart from Judd, they don't get more than a quarter of their balls contested. You are going in the book as a Carrot basher or are you going to have a go at everybody else, Judd excepted

ps Dont forget Carrots would rarely be allowed to fly for contested marks

[Five]

I sure if this was your opening statement, you would get a lot more followers. I think you've just got everyone angry because of 'Drop Carrazzo'.

I mean i've stated it before i would have liked him to be dropped a few weeks ago because he doesn't have a place in our midfield and didn't seem to be able to hold down a defensive spot. I stick by my word that he isn't good enough to play in our midfield but from what i've seen in the past few weeks, he definately has a spot as a small defender and is important to our team.

He should not be dropped as of yet but he definately, in my mind, is much more likely to get dropped now because he doesn't add anything to our team offensively.
Oh no - you weren't the one who was calling for him to be dropped after his 43 possie game were you?

[Doza]

What is with these ridiculous drop/trade Carrazzo and Scotland threads? Am I missing something :confused:

[WeninRome]

Point taken guys.

Still it was worth starting this thread to learn more about different supporters perspectives.

[Cruiser23]

Oh no - you weren't the one who was calling for him to be dropped after his 43 possie game were you?

Unfortunately for you i wasn't. If Carrazzo can't hold down a small defenders role where will he play?

[WeninRome]

Unfortunately for you i wasn't. If Carrazzo can't hold down a small defenders role where will he play?

We will find out this week when he will take one of the two best going around

[Mike_blues]

I don't want Carrazzo to deliver the ball full stop. As a backman he is way too loose.

As long as him and Scotland are in our side we will not play finals.
i dont think so buddy
scotland has been a great player for us and hes only 27ish. has filled walkers role reasonably well and uses the ball fair, but the odd bad disposal hurts
he is easily in our best 22

[WeninRome]

i dont think so buddy
scotland has been a great player for us and hes only 27ish. has filled walkers role reasonably well and uses the ball fair, but the odd bad disposal hurts
he is easily in our best 22

Yep I know, game set match, I already gave in.

[Mike_blues]

Yep I know, game set match, I already gave in.
fair enough

[CarltonSocialClub]

He has the perfect skill set for a back pocket.

He started his career in a great shutdown of an in-form Aaron Davey at Princes Park. That's where he belongs. I don't mind giving him chop-outs in the midfield if the current mix isn't working.

[Five]

Unfortunately for you i wasn't. If Carrazzo can't hold down a small defenders role where will he play?
That game was 4 weeks ago and you said a few weeks ago - maybe it was the game before and he then came out and proved you wrong
But then again in the Melbourne game 6 weeks ago he had 23 possies and 91% were effective so it could not have been that game

I am stumped - you had better define several for me

Look, I have identified Carrots faults before - it just sh#ts me seeing threads like this after a win

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Riverend/happy-1.jpg

[WeninRome]

That game was 4 weeks ago and you said a few weeks ago - maybe it was the game before and he then came out and proved you wrong
But then again in the Melbourne game 6 weeks ago he had 23 possies and 91% were effective so it could not have been that game

I am stumped - you had better define several for me

Look, I have identified Carrots faults before - it just sh#ts me seeing threads like this after a win

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Riverend/happy-1.jpg

I should be the one coping it not cruise, I did start the thread and will take full responsibility five :).

[mikeythemoocow]

What is with these ridiculous drop/trade Carrazzo and Scotland threads? Am I missing something :confused:

If we are to become a real contender these two have to become pretty much fringe players. More so Carrazzo. I would like to see some younger players with more potential being groomed to take both their roles. If thats a Grigg/Ando/Browne then good, start slowly molding them to these roles. That might mean sometimes dropping them but sometimes not. If we were to get any trade value(Picks) out of either at the end of next season we should look very hard at it. Not sure we can afford to trade Scotland just yet but both are replaceable at the end of the day.

[one eyed bluey]

If we are to become a real contender these two have to become pretty much fringe players. More so Carrazzo. I would like to see some younger players with more potential being groomed to take both their roles. If thats a Grigg/Ando/Browne then good, start slowly molding them to these roles. That might mean sometimes dropping them but sometimes not. If we were to get any trade value(Picks) out of either at the end of next season we should look very hard at it. Not sure we can afford to trade Scotland just yet but both are replaceable at the end of the day.

Through walker into that equation.

To be honest our defence is pretty much set for the next 5 or so years apart from carrots position, so thats something POISITIVE.
Jamison Thornton
Walker Waite Bower

Im starting to agree if we can get a high pick for carrots i'd take it. Even if we get a trade done to get a genuine CHF/ or another dangerous forward to help fev out i'd take it.

we have armfield/browne/ando/walker who can rotate through the back.

We already have an abundance of small backman coming through...something to ponder

[Doza]

we have armfield/browne/ando/walker who can rotate through the back.

haha, I love it, another thread saying don't worry, we have Ando. So funny lol :D Let's just trade Carrazzo and Scotland, its ok we have Ando!

[Mayesy_23]

I know. Everyone is saying get rid of Carrats for 3 youngsters who have impressed but are still unknowns. C'mon people.

[KnaveyBlue]

Carrazzo shouldn't be dropped, but we definitely should NOT be playing him that deep in the backline.

Was at the game, and he trailed Grey by 5-10m at most contests, and seemed almost content to do so.

His disposal just hurts too much when he's that close to the opposition goals. Why was he kicking out from full back?!?!?

[Cruiser23]

That game was 4 weeks ago and you said a few weeks ago - maybe it was the game before and he then came out and proved you wrong
But then again in the Melbourne game 6 weeks ago he had 23 possies and 91% were effective so it could not have been that game

I am stumped - you had better define several for me

Look, I have identified Carrots faults before - it just sh#ts me seeing threads like this after a win


I'll say it again, i don't want him dropped, so stop making it out like i do. I've just pointed out that i don't think he can play in our midfield anymore. As for the game i thought he should be dropped, it was after the Brisbane game where he was shocking, gave away 4 free kicks, had 5 clangers and was beatenmost of the night. Also the Cats game he made many mistakes, 6 clangers and 4 free kicks against.

By the way, how is a few weeks ago more than 4 weeks? Your first line makes no sense.

[WeninRome]

Carrazzo shouldn't be dropped, but we definitely should NOT be playing him that deep in the backline.

Was at the game, and he trailed Grey by 5-10m at most contests, and seemed almost content to do so.

His disposal just hurts too much when he's that close to the opposition goals. Why was he kicking out from full back?!?!?

This is what I noticed too, and why I started the thread.

It's the whole point! He isn't good enough to play in our mid, and may not be clean with skills or accountable enough to play in our backline. So where does he play?

[TheGeneral]

Gray isn't quick, but beat Carrazzo to the ball and would have kicked the matchwinner on him if he hadn't hit the post.

That's two goals he would have kicked on Carrazzo.

He needs to lift when he's our reigning Best and Fairest and in our leadership group.

I wouldn't hesitate to bring in the taller, faster and more aggressive Anderson for Carrazzo if Davis plays on him and kicks two to three.

He's had more than enough chances.

Walker, Bannister and even Houlihan(better skills) are due back soon, so he has to step up and beat Davis if he wants to keep his spot.

Browne reminds me of Ratten when he barged through two Port players to set up an inside 50. :thumbsu:

Browne shouldn't be dropped.

[TheGeneral]

haha, I love it, another thread saying don't worry, we have Ando. So funny lol :D Let's just trade Carrazzo and Scotland, its ok we have Ando!
Yes please.

We need more draft selections thanks when the next four drafts will be pillaged by the two new teams.

It's called list management and trading players who won't be in your best 22 when you want to be playing in finals in three years time.

Hawthorn and Collingwood did it, yet Carlton supporters want to hang onto players who might not play a part in your future.

When will we learn?

[Just Kreuzing]

Yes please.

We need more draft selections thanks when the next four drafts will be pillaged by the two new teams.

It's called list management and trading players who won't be in your best 22 when you want to be playing in finals in three years time.

Hawthorn and Collingwood did it, yet Carlton supporters want to hang onto players who might not play a part in your future.

When will we learn?
That is possibly the most sensible thing i have read for ages.:thumbsu:

[WeninRome]

Yes please.

We need more draft selections thanks when the next four drafts will be pillaged by the two new teams.

It's called list management and trading players who won't be in your best 22 when you want to be playing in finals in three years time.

Hawthorn and Collingwood did it, yet Carlton supporters want to hang onto players who might not play a part in your future.

When will we learn?

thankyou! Some common sense prevails.

[Five]

I was one to say drop him a few weeks back and i'm happy to admit it. He was playing more of a midfield role at the time and IMO he can't be appart of our midfield group, he doesn't have the tools to do so.

I think Ratten has figured this out and is now starting to play him in a defensive role that is more worried about the man than the ball, played well last night i might add. He has 79% effectiveness with his possessions but only 5 of his 25 touches are contested which shows that he doesn't have good disposal in a contested position. Also he isn't an in and under player because 5 out of 25 is not good enough to be one but he is hard at the ball and puts in week in week out.

Keep playing him in this defensive role that Ratten seems to be giving him, play him on Davis this week and keep playing him on small forwards. If he starts dropping his defensive duties and start becoming less accountable, he has to be dropped because he has no attacking side to his game what so ever.

I'll say it again, i don't want him dropped, so stop making it out like i do. I've just pointed out that i don't think he can play in our midfield anymore. As for the game i thought he should be dropped, it was after the Brisbane game where he was shocking, gave away 4 free kicks, had 5 clangers and was beatenmost of the night. Also the Cats game he made many mistakes, 6 clangers and 4 free kicks against.

By the way, how is a few weeks ago more than 4 weeks? Your first line makes no sense.

You are not making any sense buddy!
Quote 1 - you said you wanted him dropped

Since then I have been asking when you wanted this - I have subtly been trying to make the point that he has not warranted dropping - you have now made it clear that one week after he got BOG, you wanted to drop him

I suggest you never learnt the meaning of 'few' - check it out, I think you will find it could be any number from 2 - even say 100 depending on the context. Us oldies would never use it for 2 (couple) and mostly used it for 3-5

This is getting ridiculous but not as ridiculous as supporting a DROP A PLAYER thread the day after a good win :)

[WeninRome]

You are not making any sense buddy!
Quote 1 - you said you wanted him dropped

Since then I have been asking when you wanted this - I have subtly been trying to make the point that he has not warranted dropping - you have now made it clear that one week after he got BOG, you wanted to drop him

I suggest you never learnt the meaning of 'few' - check it out, I think you will find it could be any number from 2 - even say 100 depending on the context. Us oldies would never use it for 2 (couple) and mostly used it for 3-5

This is getting ridiculous but not as ridiculous as supporting a DROP A PLAYER thread the day after a good win :)

I would of posted this thread regardless of whether we won or lost, it's just how I have been feeling lately and wanted to raise it on bigfooty.

I thought we were allowed to be free of our own opinions here?

I don't think an argument about what is considered a few weeks is really relevant to the topic.

[Five]

Yes please.

We need more draft selections thanks when the next four drafts will be pillaged by the two new teams.

It's called list management and trading players who won't be in your best 22 when you want to be playing in finals in three years time.

Hawthorn and Collingwood did it, yet Carlton supporters want to hang onto players who might not play a part in your future.

When will we learn?

If we are only aiming at finals (NOT a GF) in 3 years and say a premiership in 5, then this could have some relevance to Trade Carrots (Is supposedly a Drop Carrots thread but the sidetrack is not your fault) as he will be 29 and we will have enuf elite 29yo like Juddy

Your premise is that we should trade anyone who will not be in our best 22 in 3 years time

A premiership team needs 25-28 players capable of playing a role on GF day as in all likelihood you will need depth to cover injuries

So if you are aiming for GF day in 3 years, which I would be, then I am reluctant to trade anyone that I believe could be in my best 25 in 3yrs time. I think we have a fair compliment of young uns right now and of course we will be getting more so I do not see the need for a massive clearance. I am open to offers of course but I still believe Carrots could be in the mix in 3 years and there is a few to clear this year before him in my book

My premise is if you think you nearly have the list for a tilt in 3 years DO NOT trade anyone who could be in your best 25 unless you are getting a dam good offer

We are of course not including long-term projects/prospects in our numbers

You have said might not play a part in our future and that could be nearly anyone as neither of us has a crystal ball - we have built a more than useful list in my opinion, it is definitly one KPP player short but overall it basically needs tweeking and continued good drafting with whatever our picks are. Drafting is an area that most teams can continue to get better at - you would be surprised at how few teams bother to even seek the opinion of premiership TAC coaches!

Maybe we only disagree on how far off we are? :thumbsu:

[WeninRome]

If we are only aiming at finals (NOT a GF) in 3 years and say a premiership in 5, then this could have some relevance to Trade Carrots (Is supposedly a Drop Carrots thread but the sidetrack is not your fault) as he will be 29 and we will have enuf elite 29yo like Juddy

Your premise is that we should trade anyone who will not be in our best 22 in 3 years time

A premiership team needs 25-28 players capable of playing a role on GF day as in all likelihood you will need depth to cover injuries

So if you are aiming for GF day in 3 years, which I would be, then I am reluctant to trade anyone that I believe could be in my best 25 in 3yrs time. I think we have a fair compliment of young uns right now and of course we will be getting more so I do not see the need for a massive clearance. I am open to offers of course but I still believe Carrots could be in the mix in 3 years and there is a few to clear this year before him in my book

My premise is if you think you nearly have the list for a tilt in 3 years DO NOT trade anyone who could be in your best 25 unless you are getting a dam good offer

We are of course not including long-term projects/prospects in our numbers

You have said might not play a part in our future and that could be nearly anyone as neither of us has a crystal ball - we have built a more than useful list in my opinion, it is definitly one KPP player short but overall it basically needs tweeking and continued good drafting with whatever our picks are. Drafting is an area that most teams can continue to get better at - you would be surprised at how few teams bother to even seek the opinion of premiership TAC coaches!

Maybe we only disagree on how far off we are? :thumbsu:

I complete agree with everything you have said five, and I usually always do. Your posts are relevant and too the point :thumbsu:

What I would like to raise with you are a couple of things

A. Where do you see Carrots fitting into our team moving forward if he can fulfill his role as a backpocket?

B. If we were going to trade him, what you want?

C. Do you think he might be the sort of player that in a couple of years when we are really pushing for it, maybe holds us back or loses that crucial game due to his inability to hit targets and his slowness?

[Five]

I would of posted this thread regardless of whether we won or lost, it's just how I have been feeling lately and wanted to raise it on bigfooty.

I thought we were allowed to be free of our own opinions here?

I don't think an argument about what is considered a few weeks is really relevant to the topic.

Here is a crazy idea for you bj - let cruiser defend himself. If you are feeling guilty about starting the thread and want to take the strap for him, I don't give a sh1t

If you can read between the lines - the few was relevant to when he thought Carrots should be dropped. He said he wanted to drop him a few weeks ago .... I have this funny notion of giving a player a weeks grace if he was BOG a fortnight before and therefore wanted to know when a few was

You are perfectly free to express your opinions here - just as I am and I will continue to consider such a post the day after a fantastic win BLOODY STRANGE!

Probably would have been cooler with it if it started on a Thursday when we are all looking for new topics :)

[Five]

I complete agree with everything you have said five, and I usually always do. Your posts are relevant and too the point :thumbsu:

What I would like to raise with you are a couple of things

A. Where do you see Carrots fitting into our team moving forward if he can fulfill his role as a backpocket?

B. If we were going to trade him, what you want?

C. Do you think he might be the sort of player that in a couple of years when we are really pushing for it, maybe holds us back or loses that crucial game due to his inability to hit targets and his slowness?

C first he is one of the most incorrectly maligned players when it comes to effective disposal %. You are right, as I have stated elsewhere, wherever he plays - to improve his game he has to run more

B to trade him I want a player as you are rarely going to get a first round ticket in the raffle nowadays - I think Travis Johnstone proved this. I will get back to you shortly on this

A I pretty much see him as Interchange. Don't laugh as I see this as a very important position and I think with more coaching he can provide excellent veratility off the bench. Nowadays everyone of the 22 has to play around 70% game time - so whether you start on ground is fairly irrelevant
:thumbsu:

[WeninRome]

Here is a crazy idea for you bj - let cruiser defend himself. If you are feeling guilty about starting the thread and want to take the strap for him, I don't give a sh1t

If you can read between the lines - the few was relevant to when he thought Carrots should be dropped. He said he wanted to drop him a few weeks ago .... I have this funny notion of giving a player a weeks grace if he was BOG a fortnight before and therefore wanted to know when a few was

You are perfectly free to express your opinions here - just as I am and I will continue to consider such a post the day after a fantastic win BLOODY STRANGE!

Probably would have been cooler with it if it started on a Thursday when we are all looking for new topics :)

I wasn't sticking up for him Five. I was just inferring that the argument you were both having was irrelevant to this thread.

I am not going to get into an argument with someone I don't know over an internet forum.

Sorry if I have disrupted your week five :thumbsu:

[WeninRome]

C first he is one of the most incorrectly maligned players when it comes to effective disposal %. You are right, as I have stated elsewhere, wherever he plays - to improve his game he has to run more

B to trade him I want a player as you are rarely going to get a first round ticket in the raffle nowadays - I think Travis Johnstone proved this. I will get back to you shortly on this

A I pretty much see him as Interchange. Don't laugh as I see this as a very important position and I think with more coaching he can provide excellent veratility off the bench. Nowadays everyone of the 22 has to play around 70% game time - so whether you start on ground is fairly irrelevant
:thumbsu:

I actually really agree with your interchange point, I think he would be a good player to run off and on the bench in the future.

[Five]

What would I consier for him which I fancy would be in the realms of what we could get for him

Ted Richards
Troy Chaplin
Michael Johnson
Robert Warnock
Brad Miller

But you guys would know better than me as nowadays I am guilty of not watching many Non-Carlton games

[WeninRome]

What would I consier for him which I fancy would be in the realms of what we could get for him

Ted Richards
Troy Chaplin
Michael Johnson
Robert Warnock
Brad Miller

But you guys would know better than me as nowadays I am guilty of not watching many Non-Carlton games

I don't rate miller at all

Chaplin would be the one I would be targeting, another tall key position running defender. Releasing Waite into the forward line

[Five]

Sorry if I have disrupted your week five :thumbsu:

lol No Way - can't you tell I love an argument

Will be disappointed if TheGeneral does not wrestle with me :p

[WeninRome]

lol No Way - can't you tell I love an argument

Will be disappointed if TheGeneral does not wrestle with me :p

Yeah I know, I just don't see the point in getting worked up over an internet forum haha.

I'm not here to make enemies.

Your comment about Carrots as a bench player has altered my thoughts a bit I must admit

[Bentick's My Man.]

Carrazzo played alright against the Power on Sunday, not his best but still good, I think he will take a while to get used to his new role down back with the inclusions of Stevens and Judd into our midfield in 2008. His disposal isn't as bad as people make it out to be but he isn't quick but also isn't a slow man either.

[Five]

Yeah I know, I just don't see the point in getting worked up over an internet forum haha.

I'm not here to make enemies.

Your comment about Carrots as a bench player has altered my thoughts a bit I must admit

Could be one of a few things (Sorry, could not resist it)

- I will be on Andrew Denton's next series of Grumpy Old Men

- I am overprotective of My Boys

- Everything or Nothing is worth getting worked up over. I will go with the former: Let's Be Passionate

- I agree that We should not be making enemies with fellow Carlton supporters but I am not really sure if I care if I do (where did that Passion go)

- By rambling on like this, I can send myself the following Clip, which has excellent prospects for seeing the bottom drop out of this thread (have been looking for an opportunity to use it and can't wait any longer)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Riverend/2113217872_37d65daf1c.jpg

I cant believe the sh!t I find in ClipArt Land

[WeninRome]

Could be one of a few things (Sorry, could not resist it)

- I will be on Andrew Denton's next series of Grumpy Old Men

- I am overprotective of My Boys

- Everything or Nothing is worth getting worked up over. I will go with the former: Let's Be Passionate

- I agree that We should not be making enemies with fellow Carlton supporters but I am not really sure if I care if I do (where did that Passion go)

- By rambling on like this, I can send myself the following Clip, which has excellent prospects for seeing the bottom drop out of this thread (have been looking for an opportunity to use it and can't wait any longer)

http://i290.photobucket.com/albums/ll241/Riverend/2113217872_37d65daf1c.jpg

I cant believe the sh!t I find in ClipArt Land

ahaha gold, lots of time on your hands?

[NavyGuns_2008]

Can't drop Carrots, he is a ball magnet and his skills are ok, someone just needs to remind him which way we are kicking because he goes backwards so often. He gets himself into trouble looking to over-create the play, just leave him in a shut down role down back and tell him to look for his first option.

[krayfesh]

Drop someone who gets the ball 25 times a match in a high possesion style team?

He'll be a relatively good stopper, given the time to practise his craft.

But until then, I'd want him in the team forever as long as he keeps getting the ball.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure if we have the ball, than the opposition don't. And that's good.

Oh, but I'd like it if he wouldn't rainbow his kicks.

[TheGeneral]

Drop someone who gets the ball 25 times a match in a high possesion style team?

He'll be a relatively good stopper, given the time to practise his craft.

But until then, I'd want him in the team forever as long as he keeps getting the ball.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure if we have the ball, than the opposition don't. And that's good.

Oh, but I'd like it if he wouldn't rainbow his kicks.
Gray beat him to the ball in the wet, yet he isn't as quick as a Davis or Betts.

Don't look at possessions, but what they do with them and where they win them.

Grigg totally blanketed H.Shaw in round four, yet he had 25 possessions and no influence on the match.

Camporeale was the same at Carlton post 2002 and used to rack up touches by receiving the ball.

It isn't hard to get 25 touches in today's game when you're playing back pocket and the ball is in your forwardline a lot.

Judd and Stevens can win a game with fewer touches because they use the ball well.

Carrazzo is a ball magnet with ordinary skills and decision making if you saw him handpass to Setanta and not clear the ball himself. The inexperienced Setanta shouldn't be given the ball in that situation and forced to run it out before turning it over. Carrazzo made that decision because he has no confidence in his ability to hit a target and stops and props before looking for a target.

He hasn't improved his disposal since he started his career as a backpocket, yet he's gone full circle and is playing back pocket again after winning the B & F.

Carrazzo doesn't even take them on and kick with as much penetration as Armfield.

He needs a big game this week when Armfield, Browne, Walker and Anderson will be up and running in the next month.

[one eyed bluey]

haha, I love it, another thread saying don't worry, we have Ando. So funny lol :D Let's just trade Carrazzo and Scotland, its ok we have Ando!

for starters I never said anything about trading scotland:confused:, his a quality player but still i dont think his best position is in the backline....his a midfielder ffs

Anyway, back on topic about carrazzo, I said I would only trade him for something of value, someone who can really add to our team.
For example, if we traded carrazzo for roughhead/miller or a relatively high draft pick which can solve our CHF problem, a key defender to release waite, or even another small/medium dangerous forward which is something we lack.

I reckon we can more than cover carrazzo, Browne and Armfield look pretty good prospects to me....unfortunately I dont think we would get much for him anyway

[Mr Sparkle75]

Drop someone who gets the ball 25 times a match in a high possesion style team?

He'll be a relatively good stopper, given the time to practise his craft.

But until then, I'd want him in the team forever as long as he keeps getting the ball.

Don't quote me on this, but I'm pretty sure if we have the ball, than the opposition don't. And that's good.

Oh, but I'd like it if he wouldn't rainbow his kicks.

That gave me a bit of a laugh, i cringe whenever i see crapazzo lining up in the middle.

[Five]

Gray beat him to the ball in the wet, yet he isn't as quick as a Davis or Betts.

Don't look at possessions, but what they do with them and where they win them.

Grigg totally blanketed H.Shaw in round four, yet he had 25 possessions and no influence on the match.

Camporeale was the same at Carlton post 2002 and used to rack up touches by receiving the ball.

It isn't hard to get 25 touches in today's game when you're playing back pocket and the ball is in your forwardline a lot.

Judd and Stevens can win a game with fewer touches because they use the ball well.

Carrazzo is a ball magnet with ordinary skills and decision making if you saw him handpass to Setanta and not clear the ball himself. The inexperienced Setanta shouldn't be given the ball in that situation and forced to run it out before turning it over. Carrazzo made that decision because he has no confidence in his ability to hit a target and stops and props before looking for a target.

He hasn't improved his disposal since he started his career as a backpocket, yet he's gone full circle and is playing back pocket again after winning the B & F.

Carrazzo doesn't even take them on and kick with as much penetration as Armfield.

He needs a big game this week when Armfield, Browne, Walker and Anderson will be up and running in the next month.

I wrote about this elsewhere - this is one of the last passages of play one should ever use to bag Carrots

Carrots came to the rescue of Gibbsy (I think) and although he was facing the wrong way and was not calling for it - provided an out for our man under pressure. Always going to be under pressure himself, he handballed back to Carlos (facing the right way), who should had greater awareness - if Carlos kicks we are clear but he turned back to his right and was nabbed.

Players cannot be making adjustments to their game based on the experience of teamates in those situations - that would require some major stopping and propping (Carlos has been playing well, I would like to add)

You are way off the mark if you are using this as an example of stopping and propping as he gave it off straight away (had to as he was set up)

Lack of confidence is not Carrots problem - quite the opposite IMO, he seems to think he can do anything (mind you neither of us really know how he is thinking/feeling) and I would rather that in a player :rolleyes:

[BlueWorld]

Just like Carrazzo has a position in the team in the back pocket, clearing the ball from defense.

Don't like it? Take it up with Brett Ratten instead of b*tching about it on an internet forum.:thumbsu:No that's only become his position since Houlihan's been out to cover for him. Before then he was playing midfield but we needed someone to play back pocket once houlihan got injured and we all know he's had to play that role as we have no one else.

[Five]

No that's only become his position since Houlihan's been out to cover for him. Before then he was playing midfield but we needed someone to play back pocket once houlihan got injured and we all know he's had to play that role as we have no one else.
I do not think that is the only reason he is down back as Browne and Armfield have also been added as small defenders

[BlueWorld]

I do not think that is the only reason he is down back as Browne and Armfield have also been added as smaldefendersNot any more and Arnfield has only played last 2 games. We couldn't possibly need 3 small defenders anwyay. I think I'd know who houlihan usually plays on and Carrazzo has had him every week.

[Five]

Not any more and Arnfield has only played last 2 games. We couldn't possibly need 3 small defenders anwyay. I think I'd know who houlihan usually plays on and Carrazzo has had him every week.
BW stop putting spelling errors in my quotes - you will give a bloke a bad name
If you have been able to predict perfectly who Hoops would have played on for the last 8 weeks - what chance you give us the Oz lotto numbers :)

[BlueWorld]

BW stop putting spelling errors in my quotes - you will give a bloke a bad name
If you have been able to predict perfectly who Hoops would have played on for the last 8 weeks - what chance you give us the Oz lotto numbers :)Read my post. I said who he usually plays on. We will obviously never know who he would have played on so it's all academic. The simple fact is Carrazzo was playing midfield until he got injured and was then given his role down back on one of the small forwards. Carrazzo played back pocked until 2006 but had some poor performances and was taken away from that role. He got a chance to play midfield once Stevens got injured last year.

No idea how the quote got misspelled. Sorry!