View Full Version : How many ladder spots would Hawthorn drop without Franklin?
The Hawks forward line is pretty much a one man show this year. And last year Franklin was the only reason the Hawks were competitive in the finals series. So the obvious question is how many ladder spots would they fall without Franklin. Based on performances this year and late last year I’d say 4-6 spots, possibly more. :)
not too many, i really rate roughead. i think he'd kick a lot more goals with franklin not as the main target.
you could say the same with most teams though.
for example...carlton and judd.
wouldnt have won yesterday without him and they wouldnt have beaten melbourne without him as they were looking pretty shocking until some juddy brilliance ignited them.
franklin is a superstar, him not playing would affect any side.
Hodgepodge
9 Jun 2008, 18:48
for crying out loud, roughead has almost as many goals as fevola, not a one-dimensional goal kicking side at all.
Hodgepodge
9 Jun 2008, 18:50
you could say the same with most teams though.
for example...carlton and judd.
wouldnt have won yesterday without him and they wouldnt have beaten melbourne without him as they were looking pretty shocking until some juddy brilliance ignited them.
franklin is a superstar, him not playing would affect any side.
sometimes a key player ommission doesn't necessarily affect a side, i.e. Barry Hall at Sydney. As long as you have a good structure, somebody else should kick the goals. We beat the Blues by 100 points last year without Buddy, this was after they had 2 good wins on the trot.
Carn Hawkas
9 Jun 2008, 19:28
We wouldn't drop any. We didn't drop a spot while Hodge was injured, so we wouldn't drop any if Buddy was injured.
The real question is how many spots would Carlton go up if Bryce Gibbs was injured?
davey_magik
10 Jun 2008, 10:29
Well Roughhead is top 10 in the league for goals, so it isn't that one-dimensional silly parrot.
turtle27
10 Jun 2008, 21:30
The Hawks forward line is pretty much a one man show this year. And last year Franklin was the only reason the Hawks were competitive in the finals series. So the obvious question is how many ladder spots would they fall without Franklin. Based on performances this year and late last year I’d say 4-6 spots, possibly more. :)Less than Carlton would drop without Fev or Judd.
dutchy12
10 Jun 2008, 23:15
Roughead has kicked 35 goals. He would become the #1 key forward. Then they'd probably bring in Thorp or Dowler. I envy their depth
Fortress Hawk
10 Jun 2008, 23:30
The Hawks forward line is pretty much a one man show this year. And last year Franklin was the only reason the Hawks were competitive in the finals series. So the obvious question is how many ladder spots would they fall without Franklin. Based on performances this year and late last year I’d say 4-6 spots, possibly more. :)
Wow i just cant believe how jealous some people seem to be about buddy! Yeah his a freak get over it! yes he plays for hawks get ovet it! yes we are a better team with him get over it! Every club has at least one superstar who if wasnt playing would effect how they go! what a stupid thread! One man forward line! well if its so one man then y don't you put six backmen on buddy and let the others sit there and do nothing, that way the hawks can't win!! How manys roughy kicked?? over 40 i think! then we have williams, boyle, and plenty of goals coming through our midfield! i bet you anything u put our 3 top forwards against any other teams and i bet we win for the most goals scored!
STATS say that they key to winning a flag is to have 3 key forward kicking multiple goals and thats what we have
eg Geelong 2007=Mooney, Ablett, S.johnson
Bris 2001-2004=Brown, Lynch, Bradshaw
Syd=Hall, micky O and davis
Kangas of the 90's= Carey longmire allison
Essendon 2000= Hird Lucas Loyd
Eagles are prob the only team that didnt have 3 big forwards kicking huge total of goals!
Buddys a superstar and makes us a better side but roughy and williams and boyle and any other forawrds rotating through that forward line are just as important because there will be days that buddy doesnt fire and they will stand up!
tazhawk
11 Jun 2008, 12:10
Roughead has kicked 35 goals. He would become the #1 key forward. Then they'd probably bring in Thorp or Dowler. I envy their depth
Bingo.
Poor old Parrot, the stupid old boiler has got another one wrong.:D
Claude Balls
11 Jun 2008, 15:03
Buddy has averaged 5.36 goals a game this season and probably around 4 behinds. He therefore individually contributes something like 36 points per game to the Hawks score.
Without evaluating the finer details, such as goal assists, crashed packs to create opportunites, team structure and game plan etc etc, it is probably fair to say that the Hawks are at least 4-goal better side with him playing.
I can't be bothered looking up the margin of every one of their victories so far this year, but I'd be fairly sure at least 2 or 3 of them have been under 4 goals.
So I'd say up to 3-4 matches, and therefore at least 2-3 ladder positions.
Fortress Hawk
12 Jun 2008, 12:34
Buddy has averaged 5.36 goals a game this season and probably around 4 behinds. He therefore individually contributes something like 36 points per game to the Hawks score.
Without evaluating the finer details, such as goal assists, crashed packs to create opportunites, team structure and game plan etc etc, it is probably fair to say that the Hawks are at least 4-goal better side with him playing.
I can't be bothered looking up the margin of every one of their victories so far this year, but I'd be fairly sure at least 2 or 3 of them have been under 4 goals.
So I'd say up to 3-4 matches, and therefore at least 2-3 ladder positions.
OMG
Are u a retard or what?
by what you are saying is that he has 9 scoring shots a game right! that means 9 inside 50's pretty much for him to have those shots on goal! So lets pretend buddy isn't there as many geelong fans wish he wasn't! DO you think those 9 times we go inside our forward 50 we would be kicking it to nobody? Think about it champ the 9 times that we would enter that forward 50 we would be kicking it to somebody! so someone else would be kicking the goals! Buddy is a freak he finishes off the hard work our mids and backline set up! But if he wasnt there someone would stand up and kick them!
If we go by your method on friday night when ablett had 39 touches, if he didnt play you as a team would have had 39 less touches and you would of lost right?? Wrong cause if he wasn't there then someone else would be! Of course the great players make there teams better but that dosen't mean if they werent playing that there team would lose! It'ss not basketball where there is a heavy reliance on a single player! theres to many other players that can change to outcome of a game then just buddy!
Claude Balls
12 Jun 2008, 14:17
OMG
Are u a retard or what?
by what you are saying is that he has 9 scoring shots a game right! that means 9 inside 50's pretty much for him to have those shots on goal! So lets pretend buddy isn't there as many geelong fans wish he wasn't! DO you think those 9 times we go inside our forward 50 we would be kicking it to nobody? Think about it champ the 9 times that we would enter that forward 50 we would be kicking it to somebody! so someone else would be kicking the goals! Buddy is a freak he finishes off the hard work our mids and backline set up! But if he wasnt there someone would stand up and kick them!
If we go by your method on friday night when ablett had 39 touches, if he didnt play you as a team would have had 39 less touches and you would of lost right?? Wrong cause if he wasn't there then someone else would be! Of course the great players make there teams better but that dosen't mean if they werent playing that there team would lose! It'ss not basketball where there is a heavy reliance on a single player! theres to many other players that can change to outcome of a game then just buddy!
LOL, calm down mate. And try not to call people retards.. it lacks class.
I went through the process of analysing Buddy's scoring impact and all that as much for my own amusement as I did try and provide some sort of genuine basis for comment.
I clearly stated that there are other factors to consider, such as structure, game plan, goal assists and so on. This means that I acknowledge that if Buddy didn't convert a F50 entry into a goal, someone else (like Roughead) might.
However, Buddy is the best KP forward in the game ATM, so it is clearly unreasonable to say that each goal he kicks would be picked up elsewhere. That is why I said that it is more or less safe to say that Buddy makes Hawthorn a 4 goal better side. Roughead would pick up a few goals more if Buddy wasn't there, but he wouldn't pick them all up, because he is not as good at kicking them.
And don't try and argue that Hawthorn wouldn't be 4 goals worse off without Buddy. You are clearly the type of Hawk supporter to extol his virtues in a postive sense. There must an eqvuilant appraisal in a negative sense. If he's as good as we are told every day on BigFooty and in the media, 4 goals would be a flattering conclusion.
Geelongfor2008
14 Jun 2008, 15:25
sometimes a key player ommission doesn't necessarily affect a side, i.e. Barry Hall at Sydney. As long as you have a good structure, somebody else should kick the goals. We beat the Blues by 100 points last year without Buddy, this was after they had 2 good wins on the trot.
who didnt beat the blues last year by 100 pts
SA HAWK
15 Jun 2008, 12:29
The Hawks forward line is pretty much a one man show this year. And last year Franklin was the only reason the Hawks were competitive in the finals series. So the obvious question is how many ladder spots would they fall without Franklin. Based on performances this year and late last year I’d say 4-6 spots, possibly more. :)Less than carlton would drop without fev. :)
Fortress Hawk
15 Jun 2008, 13:42
Last night we just proved to everyone who thought we were a one man team that we have got so many options it's not funny! Buddy had a bad game and we still won!! So many players still tio come back in that i think we are on the verge of greatness!!
Geelongfor2008
17 Jun 2008, 20:27
Last night we just proved to everyone who thought we were a one man team that we have got so many options it's not funny! Buddy had a bad game and we still won!! So many players still tio come back in that i think we are on the verge of greatness!!
Adelaide deserved the win more
mighty_fighting
18 Jun 2008, 21:12
Adelaide deserved the win more
Where's my bucket???? :(
Last night we just proved to everyone who thought we were a one...
lol. Hardly. Without Franklin the Hawks are a 9th to 7th finish team or a straight-sets-exit finals team. Last years finals told us that quite clearly. :)
DTHitman
19 Jun 2008, 12:52
1. Geelong
2. Western Bulldogs
3. Adelaide
4. Hawthorn / Sydney
they would drop 2-3 spots without buddy.
In case we needed it, yet more evidence of the Hawks extreme reliance on Franklin today. :)
Hodgepodge
21 Jun 2008, 19:19
In case we needed it, yet more evidence of the Hawks extreme reliance on Franklin today. :)
he's just trying to give Fev a chance to catch up to him on the Coleman.
Hawkamania!
21 Jun 2008, 19:59
The Hawks forward line is pretty much a one man show this year. And last year Franklin was the only reason the Hawks were competitive in the finals series. So the obvious question is how many ladder spots would they fall without Franklin. Based on performances this year and late last year I’d say 4-6 spots, possibly more. :)
Round 12, Telstra Dome. Friday, 15th June 2007.
http://www.footywire.com/afl/footy/ft_match_statistics?mid=2999
Hawthorn 27.18.180 d. Carlton 12.8.80.
Franklin was not playing that game.