View Full Version : The let's overstate Selwood's performances thread
I just thought i would start a thread because i cannot believe the BS that is being spouted here about Selwood's contribution on in the last 3 games. I will say that he has been reasonable at best, the pressure has not been there in the last 3 games because we have literally controlled all 3 contests without ever really putting the opposition away. He has been solid at best, his skills have been okay at best, he has still turned the ball over from poor skills and decision making. Once again i won't doubt his courage but his ability is limited. When the heat is on this saturday and he handles it really well then i will eat some humble pie.
The only match up i see for him this week is potentially Cross, i can't see him being able to match Murphy, Aka or Gia. I am not knocking him, i just can't believe how his performances have been blown out of proportion. I would liken it to a spelling test - Selwood is like a kid that has been getting 6 or 7 right for most the season, the last 3 weeks he may have got 11 right each week. Good but good for him.
His disposal may be questionable but I think you are wrong acuguy. I have been one of his biggest knockers, but Bell didn't do much yesterday and Dal Santo had no effect against us 3 weeks ago. I can't remember who he was playing on against the Roos but I thought he was good as well. Even as we speak I think we should eat humble pie he has been good.
We were there to knock him down when he is terrible. We should be out to pump him up when he's getting things right.
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 19:14
Do you even factor in his tagging role to your analysis acuguy?
Do you even factor in his tagging role to your analysis acuguy?
Of course i do, but his tagging has been solid at best, not spectacular because he doesn't hurt teams the other way like a Boyd for example. Look i think he has been okay, but i need proof that he can handle the top teams before i go giving him a spot in my 22.
I have been a Selwood critic all year but I actually think he was pretty good yesterday .
17 disposals, 5 marks and 6 tackles.
OK, stats don't always tell the true story but for the first time in a while, he was more decisive with his disposals and I can only remember one real clanger where he handballed to someone who was in a worse position than he was.
He does have a tendency to stop, prop and look to offload sideways or backwards but I was encouraged yesterday because he seemed more willing to go forward and look for an attacking option than a defensive one.
I'd still prefer Stiller myself but I guess the coaches and the match panel have their reasons for persevering with him.
Gabbatoir
9 Jun 2008, 19:33
100% disposal efficiency against Freo I think I remember reading somewhere.
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 19:36
100% disposal efficiency against Freo I think I remember reading somewhere.
Not entirely sure how that statistic works... like Luthor said, Selwood is guilty of the occasional hospital handball.
I'd still prefer Stiller myself but I guess the coaches and the match panel have their reasons for persevering with him.
I don't want to turn this into a Stiller thread but I doubt his capacity to stick with and employ the hardness at the contest that Selwood adopts. Also in Selwood's favour is his ability to stick with the game's best, something I doubt Stiller could do. To be fair they are two completely different players.
Sure Selwood is no Kane Cornes who tags the best and is damaging at the same time but he never shirks a contest and whilst he does his job without turning the ball over he is in my best 22.
I hope this week he continues to improve and really takes a good player and shuts them out of the game on top of getting some ball himself and being efficient with it. He must do it against the better teams, so far this year that has been his sticking point.
Sure Selwood is no Kane Cornes who tags the best and is damaging at the same time but he never shirks a contest and whilst he does his job without turning the ball over he is in my best 22.
See, this has been my issue with him, virtually since round 1.
I can't quote stats to back this up.....but until the last 2 weeks , my firm impression is that has been a turnover king, particularly by foot....there was a period of 2-3 weeks there, where he was consistently drilling pinpoint foot passes....straight onto the chest of an opponent:mad:
Until the last 2 weeks, I would have been happy not only to see him dropped but also be traded at the end of this season for whatever we could get.
Having got that off my chest, he does seem to have cut out the clangers and against the Saints and the Dockers, he has been more than serviceable and shut down some pretty dangerous players.
I'm not giving him a glowing endorsement yet but as long as he performs his role without those clangers, I'm OK with him in the best 22 also
It is great to hear some more accurate descriptions about the real state of play in regards to T.Selwood.
Cousin Jed
9 Jun 2008, 20:07
let's overstate Selwood's performances thread
Selwood 4 Brownlow!
Chasing the Dream
9 Jun 2008, 20:09
I know that I have been one that has been praising his recent efforts, so I can not say I agree with much you have said acuguy, however, we are all entitled to our opinions, and we all see different things in players each week.
I have certainly changed my tune since I posted this.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10900383&postcount=178
So after being that dissapointed with his form, I just felt I needed to show some support when he has turned it around. (guilt maybe:D)
At least the common message within this thread is that we all want to see him keep improving:thumbsu:
awesome_assassin
9 Jun 2008, 20:15
No disrespect to Troy, but with Sherman playing a tagging role lately and racking up some good possessions going the other way, is there a spot for him in the team as a pure tagger?
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 20:20
No disrespect to Troy, but with Sherman playing a tagging role lately and racking up some good possessions going the other way, is there a spot for him in the team as a pure tagger?
What is a pure tagger?
Selwood got 17 touches, 1 more than Sherman.
Cousin Jed
9 Jun 2008, 20:24
Oh and this thread needs more talk of "should be dropped for Albert Proud"
What is a pure tagger?
Selwood got 17 touches, 1 more than Sherman.
Selwood touches have about as much impact as fuel watch
Not entirely sure how that statistic works... like Luthor said, Selwood is guilty of the occasional hospital handball.
Ah Browndog, stats are a truly amazing thing.
According to the "Player Performance" stats in yesterdays AFL Record, one of our midfielders has a "Kicking Efficiency" of only 58.1% (AFL Average 67.1%), a "Handball Efficiency" of 76.5% (AFL Average 82.1%)......which combined give rise to an overall "Disposal Efficiency of a relatively poor 68.0% compared to the AFL Average of 74.5%......for all "midfielders"
So who is this dumbarse Brisbane Lions midfielder who apparantly can't hit the side of a barn (much less a barn door) with his disposals.....????
......none other than Simon Black!!:eek:
Of course, what the stats don't tell you is that the huge majority of Black's disposals are delivered in heavy traffic, where he is being tagged,bashed, scragged and molested.
Black goes where 95% of the AFL's outside receivers and back-half bandits wouldn't even dream of being seen...in the rough, tough jumble at the bottom of packs.
You don't see S.Black hovering around the back pocket racking up 4 or 5 cheap, keepings off stats in junk time.
Perhaps the best measure of Black's worth is the "stat" that shows that a whopping 39.7% of his overall possessions are "Contested" (AFL Average 29.7% for midfielders)
I apologise if I've gone on here a bit but I think it's worth understanding that raw stats often don't paint an accurate picture of a given players contribution to his team.
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 20:43
I apologise if I've gone on here a bit but I think it's worth understanding that raw stats often don't paint an accurate picture of a given players contribution to his team.
Yup, I came across those same stats today putting together the half-way thread.
This is why I didnt put too much stock in the Selwood 100 percent stat.
Stats are crap, back your own eye!
In the spirit of the thread title, Selwood will win a Brownlow playing out of the goal square as a leading forward. Bookmark it! :cool:
Chasing the Dream
9 Jun 2008, 20:51
Acuguy, the sad thing is that I was:o
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 21:07
Stats are crap, back your own eye!
Good point. Tell Gyroscope that next time he comes in trolling Travis Johnstone.
Like stats, I also reckon television coverage also doesn't compare with live football, especially in seeing how hard players work off the ball.
Stats are crap, back your own eye!
If that is the case then I would say Copeland is in way more trouble than Selwood. There is good reason why he has been in the twos for the past 4 weeks and judging on yesterday's form I would rank Selwood miles in front of Copeland.
Copeland looks like a shell of his former self. He appears to have lost confidence in his own game and it shows including his disposal, which is average at best. Obviously Selwood's disposal isn't great all the time either but I think he offers more value in a specific role than Copeland.
If we are comparing the two, I would imagine Copeland will likely make a swift return to his role as captain of Suncoast if none of the defenders come up for this week and Selwood to remain in the seniors.
It is great to hear some more accurate descriptions about the real state of play in regards to T.Selwood.
I never had an issue with "the real state of play in regards to T.Selwood" but I had an issue with the personal content of some of the posts. Believe it or not acuguy I struggled with his form as well but I was damned if I was going to carry on every 2nd post about it. I have always been impressed with the coaching staffs ability to get the best out of players that we the public perceive as poor. Case in point is MacDonald. When I first started contributing to this oh so august forum I was under the impression that many around here wanted to put a bullet through him and send the bill to the family at the same time. Now he is easily a key player and gets week in week out praise.
What we have have to remember is that there is only so much talent to go around and it would be injudicious of any clubs coaching staff to drop players on a whim. The replacements are sometimes not available nor that
good.
As to your OP he has been a fine player over the last 3 weeks. He smashed Bell on the weekend and Del Santo 2 weeks back. How do I know this? Because of the way you have posted about him. I took a point of watching his every move whenever possible. He has of late been quick into position, has read the play well and has been disposing the pill a bit quicker under pressure. He also has a bit of mongrel toughness about him and that is something that is required.
If he keeps this rate of progress up over the rest of the season and beyond we will be more than happy.
Yup, I came across those same stats today putting together the half-way thread.
This is why I didnt put too much stock in the Selwood 100 percent stat.
Speaking of stats, here's another set that caught my eye from yesterday's Footy Record with regards to "Contested possessions"
To Round 10, both our "designated" Ruckmen (Charman and Luenberger) are above the AFL Average in their category (46.4% and 50.0% vs. AFL average 45.0%)
Of our 12 designated Midfielders, nine are above the AFL average.
Of our seven Forwards, four are above AFL Average, the standout being Bradshaw (50.9% Contested vs. AFL average for Forwards of 36.7%)
Of our seven Defenders, five are above AFL Average (Merrett 36.8% vs. Average 29.4%)
Of our 3 utilities (Brennan, Copeland, Patfull), only Copeland is below the AFL average and only marginally below (34.6% vs. 35.9%)
As I've already said, raw stats can tell fibs but if you think about it, the "Contested Possession" stat if nothing else, gives a pretty accurate reflection of a side's desire and commitment to the cause.
You can argue about the "designation" of players as defenders, midfielders or whatever but the fact remains that 22 of the 31 players that have worn our jumper this season have a higher Contested Possession count than the AFL Average.
Now that's a "good" stat in my view.
Now all we need is a little more in the skill area and the world is our oyster.:)
The Flying Belgian
9 Jun 2008, 21:41
My opinion is that while he's been serviceable over the past few weeks I don't think the pressure has been as great and I think he's prone to panicking a little when really under the pump. OK, most players are, but he doesn't have the same ability to hurt as others.
However I'm happy to judge him on face value and he did some nice stuff on the weekend. Sounds callous, but it's great to see him off under the blood rule. When he's at the bottom of the pack is when he's playing his best.
An idea for a new thread: the "I made up my mind 12 weeks ago and there's no ____ing way I'm going to change it" thread. Fair dinkum - what a load of self-serving horseshit. The bloke has gone from being poor, to being OK to having a couple of quality games recently. Is he then entitled to expect a bit of praise for his turnaround? Probably, but he's not going to get it when the wilfully blind ignore the reality.
I've got no dramas with reserving an opinion. I've also got no dramas with criticism when due. But to start a thread, effectively dismissing valid praise of others for a bloke who has done his job for his team, is ludicrous and reeks of either ignorance or obstinance.
Perhaps the thread should be called /I don't like Selwood but I have a great passion for Proud and I want him in the side, cos I reckon he was awesome in the two games he played,/thread.
Its probably a bit long though.
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 21:55
Perhaps the thread should be called /I don't like Selwood but I have a great passion for Proud and I want him in the side, cos I reckon he was awesome in the two games he played,/thread.
Its probably a bit long though.
Acuguy has a monopoly on Albert Proud worship. Even though many of us were excited about Proudy when he was drafted, well before acuguy's bandwagon took off.
When Albie starts gunning it in the seniors, its going to be about acucuy's victory over us heathens that failed to see the genius of Proud and hype him to the heavens when the evil team selection crew wouldn't give him a chance. ;)
The Flying Belgian
9 Jun 2008, 21:57
Wow, in my last post I wrote:
"It would be nice if this thread stayed clear of melodrama and cattiness"
, but I thought No, these people are grown adults and I shouldn't have to remind anyone.
If you don't like the thread them no one is forcing you to comment.
If you don't like the thread them no one is forcing you to comment.
Equally, if you don't like the opinion, no-one is forcing you to start a new thread deriding said opinion.
The Flying Belgian
9 Jun 2008, 22:04
Equally, if you don't like the opinion, no-one is forcing you to start a new thread deriding said opinion.
I fyou feel that way, then the best avenue is to ignore it.
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 22:05
I fyou feel that way, then the best avenue is to ignore it.
I choose to ignore this.
As I see it - a good solid player now in the 50 to 100 game phase of his career
Was a rising star nomination - done some great tagging jobs - should keep improving
The selectors have retained him when many on this forum wanted him dropped
WILL be playing v Bulldogs next week,if fit
MAYBE in 3 years time will have lots of admirers as a greatly improved footballer
Perhaps the thread should be called /I don't like Selwood but I have a great passion for Proud and I want him in the side, cos I reckon he was awesome in the two games he played,/thread.
Its probably a bit long though.
Haaaa haaaa. :thumbsu::D.
Pedro the Lion
9 Jun 2008, 23:11
I'm part of the Selwood sceptics crew but am willing to give him an opportunity and really do hope he proves me wrong. An interesting point in this discussion for me is Selwood's importance to our structure. Which begs the question "how important is a tagger?" And further, "how easily can a tagger be developed?"
I haven't had much of a chance to see Suncoast this year so am wondering whether any of the youngsters are being played as taggers? If Leigh promoted a young tagger who did a decent job, what would that mean for Bunno?
There are some really vicious people on this board, lucky i can handle it:thumbsu: By the way leave Albie out of this:D
Haaaa haaaa. :thumbsu::D.
Your most impressive post to date! Keep up the good work!
Your most impressive post to date! Keep up the good work!
I replied to you in a polite manner I thought. Was the post too long?
Just giving recognition where recognition is due!
...Evening all, aren’t we having fun here.
I’m happy to file this in the ‘robust debate’ category but if it keeps on going on at this rate then posts are going to start disappearing.
TheBrownDog
9 Jun 2008, 23:31
...Evening all, aren’t we having fun here.
I’m happy to file this in the ‘robust debate’ category but if it keeps on going on at this rate then posts are going to start disappearing.
Go shower with your cat weirdo.
Just giving recognition where recognition is due!
Yes ceebee was rather funny wasn't she:):thumbsu:.
...Evening all, aren’t we having fun here.
I’m happy to file this in the ‘robust debate’ category but if it keeps on going on at this rate then posts are going to start disappearing.
____ you maxwell stein:D.
Yes ceebee was rather funny wasn't she:):thumbsu:.
About time she contributed something worthwhile!
I just thought i would start a thread because i cannot believe the BS that is being spouted here about Selwood's contribution on in the last 3 games. I will say that he has been reasonable at best, the pressure has not been there in the last 3 games because we have literally controlled all 3 contests without ever really putting the opposition away. He has been solid at best, his skills have been okay at best, he has still turned the ball over from poor skills and decision making. Once again i won't doubt his courage but his ability is limited. When the heat is on this saturday and he handles it really well then i will eat some humble pie.
The only match up i see for him this week is potentially Cross, i can't see him being able to match Murphy, Aka or Gia. I am not knocking him, i just can't believe how his performances have been blown out of proportion. I would liken it to a spelling test - Selwood is like a kid that has been getting 6 or 7 right for most the season, the last 3 weeks he may have got 11 right each week. Good but good for him.
Okay the thread title maybe a bit of a shit stirrer but i am interested in people actually discussing the parts of my initial post they feel are unfair to Troy.
So I take it acuguy, if the Lions were to offer Troy a similar deal to what his twin Adam signed with the Eagles last week ($800K over 3 years) you would be dead against it right?:D
The Eagles are screwed, what a waste of cash! He will get slower in the next couple of years and he isn't quick now. The Selwood's get smashed so the body will age quickly, the skills aren't going to get any better. They are better off putting that sort of cash into Ebert, Masten, Priddis and co. You know guys that will win you games!
Okay the thread title maybe a bit of a shit stirrer but i am interested in people actually discussing the parts of my initial post they feel are unfair to Troy.
I did and you dismissed it.
Grimreepah
9 Jun 2008, 23:58
This thread's going well...
I did and you dismissed it.
Sorry mate i did just over what you wrote. As i said i think he has been good, i guess the fact that Dal Santo often goes missing when the Saints don't play well and Bell is on his last legs means i am happy with his effort but not completely impressed. The key for me is over the next few weeks when we play against top sides. For him to hold his spot i believe he needs to limit D.Cross and then S.Thompson in the next 2 games to cement his spot.
campbell
10 Jun 2008, 09:09
The Eagles are screwed, what a waste of cash! He will get slower in the next couple of years and he isn't quick now. The Selwood's get smashed so the body will age quickly, the skills aren't going to get any better. They are better off putting that sort of cash into Ebert, Masten, Priddis and co. You know guys that will win you games!
We got the least talented Selwood, then West Coast.
By far the best , in another league rven is lucky Geelong.. damn bother....lol
campbell
10 Jun 2008, 09:12
Sorry mate i did just over what you wrote. As i said i think he has been good, i guess the fact that Dal Santo often goes missing when the Saints don't play well and Bell is on his last legs means i am happy with his effort but not completely impressed. The key for me is over the next few weeks when we play against top sides. For him to hold his spot i believe he needs to limit D.Cross and then S.Thompson in the next 2 games to cement his spot.
I will be interested again in the off the ball stuff. To me he seems sometimes slow, and methodical. Not quick and clear thinking. That old wtf do I do with it now thing happening and that lets him down disposal wise. I think you either have that clearness of mind or you dont, something you cant teach IMO.
We got the least talented Selwood, then West Coast.
By far the best , in another league rven is lucky Geelong.. damn bother....lol
funny thing is our one mentioned during draft time, Joel is the best talent in the family. I guess it was ignored as a feedback from family to improve draft prospects.
anyways, one can only wonder.. you guys think Joel wouldve been a better fit for us than Leuey ?
Old Den
10 Jun 2008, 12:35
funny thing is our one mentioned during draft time, Joel is the best talent in the family. I guess it was ignored as a feedback from family to improve draft prospects.
anyways, one can only wonder.. you guys think Joel wouldve been a better fit for us than Leuey ?
Joel was captain of a junior team that toured Ireland - I saw Bryce Gibbs say in an interview before the draft that maybe Joel could be the No.1 pick - his ability was well known - as often happens,injury was a concern
Should the Lions have taken him instead of Leuenberger ? -- NO !!
Monkey Daniel
10 Jun 2008, 13:15
Always go a tall KPP as opposed a small midfielder, so Leuy was correct choice.:thumbsu:
As for Troy Selwood, very happy with his tagging role this year. Over past season or two hasn't he already nullified some of the comp's best??
Tassie4ever
10 Jun 2008, 15:43
Has done what's been asked of him, that's all he can do- going along nicely. Sure he has more demanding days ahead, but the coaching staff obviously believe he has a future, and from what I've seen over the past few weeks he's improving with each game [as is Sherman, another who has been regularly bagged].
The fact that taggee's or whatever are reduced to belting him goes to prove he's doing the job.
Sometimes young players never improve, sometimes they do.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showpost.php?p=666886&postcount=57