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View Full Version : Is Peripheral vision – Learnt or inherent?


blynd_freddie
12 Jun 2008, 23:08
An interesting subject and well worth revisiting. This article from last year Link (http://www.realfooty.com.au/news/news/taking-the-alleyoop-to-footballs-elite/2007/06/09/1181089394231.html)

WHEN Scott Pendlebury goes dancing in and out of traffic in his Collingwood guernsey on a weekend, he could just as easily be running the point-guard spot for Australia at the Youth Olympics, which is precisely what he was doing a couple of years ago.The same goes for Jason Gram and Nick Dal Santo, St Kilda's dexterous pair. When a stationary Dal Santo flicked the ball to Gram at the 50-metre line against Geelong last Sunday, allowing Gram to bomb a long goal, they could just as easily have been playing basketball and setting up a three-point shot.
No surprise there, since Dal Santo played representative basketball in Bendigo and Gram did the same in Gippsland as a boy.
Basketballers have been flourishing in the AFL for a long time but as the trends of the modern game push more players into the same patch of space for more of the time, the connection only seems to grow. Pendlebury, who quit a burgeoning career in basketball to join his mates at the Gippsland Power, is merely the latest example. Nor is he alone. At the end of last year, Adelaide drafted a 201-centimetre boy, Kurt Tippett, who had previously played basketball for Queensland's under-18 team and hardly kicked a football in anger. Then there are the established basketballer-footballers, such as the Western Bulldogs' Scott West and Melbourne's Russell Robertson, and the coaches who played, such as Paul Roos and Terry Wallace, both state-level basketballers.
Pendlebury is winning rave reviews in only his second season for poise under pressure. "What Pendlebury's got is vision," says Tony Shaw, another of the devotees to the round-ball game. Shaw played for Coburg Giants and won a national championship many years ago. "His lateral movement is like you do to go out wide in basketball. It's like going into the low post and you move out to receive the ball. The other thing is reaction. The smaller players like Terry Wallace and Scott West, they've got urgency. In basketball, you have that non-stop."
When Shaw was coaching Collingwood some years ago, he made sure the Magpies entered two teams in a local competition at Nunawading. It had a purpose.
"When those guys came down, they couldn't even bounce the ball without looking at it," he recalls. "They kept running into each other because they couldn't look up. But by the end, their co-ordination was much better. Basketball is sensational for football. I've always believed that."
David Schwarz thinks along similar lines. When Schwarz sees Pendlebury and West working in the maelstrom of the midfield, he knows where they got their vision and creativity and speed. Schwarz, of course, played basketball for Sunbury Jets in the Continental Basketball Association as a teenager.
"Pendlebury's a freak. He sees things unfold before they actually do," says Schwarz.
"Whether that's just natural ability or it's the basketball, I don't know. In basketball, you have to have an element of surprise. You're in the same space. In footy, there's more luck involved with the bounce of the ball, the wind and whatever. In basketball, it's constant and you're looking for something, the alley-oop, the bounce between the legs, the no-look pass. Basketballers are more creative than what the footballers are."
Clubs noticed all of this a long time ago. Veteran St Kilda recruiter John Beveridge says it is plain. "If you watch footy often enough, you can see the kids who've played basketball," he says. "I mean, Nathan Burke played a lot and when he was in a pack, he'd put the ball above his head instantly. 'Let's protect the ball and make up my mind what I do with it.'
"With Gram and Dal Santo, there's no doubt their ball-handling helps them greatly. It's got to be an advantage if you can run and bounce with both hands, get rid of it with both hands. It's a hard game to play well, basketball. It's amazing how big they are and how good their ball control is in a confined area."
The fact that at least two prominent coaches — Roos and Wallace — are basketball nuts doubtless has had an impact on tactics in the modern era of AFL. Adelaide, for one, uses an eight-man zone defence that basically comes from basketball. If you watch the amount of blocking and screening that goes on at stoppages and at kickouts, you can see the influence of basketball.
When Richmond's Wallace employed a zone defence to beat Adelaide at Telstra Dome last year, Kevin Sheedy called it "basketball crap". It was a sledge that did not go unnoticed in the basketball community.
Brendan Joyce, for one, was not amused. Joyce, assistant coach of Australia's Boomers, head coach of the new Gold Coast franchise in the National Basketball League and a one-time tough onballer for Jacana in northern Melbourne, thinks there is plenty of basketball happening in Australian football.
Joyce was a handy footballer as a teenager, winning invitations to join North Melbourne. But he stuck with basketball, became a star with Nunawading Spectres in the NBL and played in state basketball teams with both Wallace and Shaw.
"Footy's become a game of possession and quick decision-making. That's a lot like basketball," he said.
Some people have the ability to learn another language, yes I remember the French word for please isn’t it “silver-plate”?

Similarly I believe some players are born with the ability to learn and refine their peripheral vision.
Do others think players are born with this skill, can it be learnt?

campbell
12 Jun 2008, 23:23
http://portadelaidefc.com.au/News/NewsArticle/tabid/6038/Default.aspx?newsId=61171

Intersing they test for it.

TheBrownDog
12 Jun 2008, 23:25
Yeah its part of the draft camp screening.

David Armitage dominated it in 2006.

campbell
12 Jun 2008, 23:29
I wonder why they like you not to be colour blind????
Fancy losing out on a footy career because of that hey.

Warwick
12 Jun 2008, 23:33
If TheBrownDog played for Brisbane we would have to wear our clash strip every game just so he could tell us apart. This would be fine by him:


I quite like it...


but the rest of us would be right against it.

TheBrownDog
12 Jun 2008, 23:45
If TheBrownDog played for Brisbane we would have to wear our clash strip every game just so he could tell us apart. This would be fine by him:



but the rest of us would be right against it.

Go push some more veterans into retirement.

Warwick
12 Jun 2008, 23:48
Go push some more veterans into retirement.
HB: BrownDog, Lucy, Lonie

What we missed out on. :(

TheBrownDog
12 Jun 2008, 23:53
HB: BrownDog, Lucy, Lonie

What we missed out on. :(

Browndog > Proud.

blynd_freddie
13 Jun 2008, 00:00
Or is peripheral vision more a seventh sense? I’m suggesting not a visual sense at all but a bizarre and exceptional sense of awareness? Something we maybe saw on occasions with say the Scott twins or for those fortunate enough during the 70's and 80's with the Krakouer brothers?

campbell
13 Jun 2008, 00:04
Browndog > Proud.

IN your dreams maybe....

TheBrownDog
13 Jun 2008, 00:05
IN your dreams maybe....

Oh snap! Epic burn!

lions_den
13 Jun 2008, 00:14
inherent

acuguy
13 Jun 2008, 00:21
it is inherent, you can't teach it, most AFL players have it that is why they play AFL they have it and are brilliant athletes as well. I think R. Murphy and Ablett are the two absolute naturals of the footy world at the moment.

blynd_freddie
13 Jun 2008, 00:23
Browndog > Proud.

Pffft... Scott Muller > BrownDog, would be more like it.

acuguy
13 Jun 2008, 00:30
Pffft... Scott Muller > BrownDog, would be more like it.

Muller was a fine bowler at Shield Level

You know what they say about Pressure

Makes Diamonds or Breaks you

blynd_freddie
13 Jun 2008, 00:35
it is inherent, you can't teach it, most AFL players have it that is why they play AFL they have it and are brilliant athletes as well. I think R. Murphy and Ablett are the two absolute naturals of the footy world at the moment.

Might one read from the article above that the sense of awareness has been enhanced by playing basketball acuguy? I'm suggesting if one is born with x amount of ability of awareness then as a child/junior they play 10 years of basketball, increasing this awareness to x + 10yrs basketball, arguably has not the additional amount of awareness has been learnt?

acuguy
13 Jun 2008, 00:49
Might one read from the article above that the sense of awareness has been enhanced by playing basketball acuguy? I'm suggesting if one is born with x amount of ability of awareness then as a child/junior they play 10 years of basketball, increasing this awareness to x + 10yrs basketball, arguably has not the additional amount of awareness has been learnt?

I liken it to the FORCE:D that is spoken about in Star Wars, when you are born with it then you must train it and harness it to be able to reach your full potential. There are many cases of basketballers that play footy and they don't have this vision/awareness on the footy field eg. Brogan (good player/thug but is a robot on the field) Fanning- former collingwood player and now plays vfl, no awareness. I think Pendelbury is the type that has this inbuilt in him and would use it in Basketball/netball whatever sport he played

TheBrownDog
13 Jun 2008, 00:55
I liken it to the FORCE:D that is spoken about in Star Wars, when you are born with it then you must train it and harness it to be able to reach your full potential. There are many cases of basketballers that play footy and they don't have this vision/awareness on the footy field eg. Brogan (good player/thug but is a robot on the field) Fanning- former collingwood player and now plays vfl, no awareness. I think Pendelbury is the type that has this inbuilt in him and would use it in Basketball/netball whatever sport he played

Midichlorians.

blynd_freddie
13 Jun 2008, 01:21
All good points acuguy, yes some are born with more awareness than others but I believe no matter what level one is born with, your examples of a Fanning (low) to a Pendlebury (high) are probably not ideal examples as I think a skill level is being confused with awareness but I see your point.
With my argument I might revert back to speech, I can talk English but my French is crap but if I was to shift to France for 12 months and studied their language I’m sure within a year I would be fluent.
So forgetting about the “skill level”, I’m suggesting we all have this FORCE and if developed or taught in the appropriate surrounds one could learn to utilise this awareness to a higher level.

TheBrownDog
13 Jun 2008, 02:06
[FONT=Verdana]All good points acuguy, yes some are born with more awareness than others but I believe no matter what level one is born with, your examples of a Fanning (low) to a Pendlebury (high) are probably not ideal examples

I reckon Justin Koschitzke would be the appropriate bottom marker for awareness.

Chops_a_must
13 Jun 2008, 02:21
Is it all vision though? I had really good peripheral vision before I was concussed out of my brain, but still have that "feel" of everyone around me.

Having raced speedway bikes, some guys know exactly where you are regardless, whereas others you could slide right into and under practically without them knowing you were even there. I just don't think it is everything to do with vision.

charles202
13 Jun 2008, 09:23
Not to sound to much like Forest Gump......But "Jenny, I don't know if Momma was right or if, if it's Lieutenant Dan. I don't know if we each have a destiny, or if we're all just floating around accidental-like on a breeze, but I, I think maybe it's both..

Great players do seem to have that vision in traffic where they see everyone around them and the oppostion seems to move in slow motion. However, i think that its a skill that can be learnt by other players not as 'gifted' and they can be good AFL palyers.

Players who I think have improved this area of their game this year for Lions would be JMac, Risak and Selwood seems to be getting better too.

dmac_55
13 Jun 2008, 12:50
Im not sure how much basketball helps your peripheral's, however vision in seeing a team mate in a better position is greatly improved. Basketballers dont get taught the whole tunnel vision 'corridor' tactics. They learn to be aware of all team mates, and very often will drive to the basket and just have that 'sense' of their team mate in the corner wide open for the 3 (see steve nash for example).

Basketball helps with your hands so much, players like Pendlebury always hit the target by hand. Instead of only getting 20 possesions a game like in football, in basketball you can touch it hundreds of times per game quite easily. It does take a bit to get used to the oval shaped ball though. I would imagine that Pendlebury would be an unbelievable gaelic rules player, with the round ball giving off assists everywhere!

Two of my favourite players, who i believe have some of the best vision in the AFL would be Luke Power and Brent Harvey.

If Luke could handball both hands he would be near instoppable. A very underrated handballer, he always puts the guy in a better position, and sometimes will pass through a defender threading the needle.
Brent Harvey is also unbelievable. If anyone watched last Friday night against Geelong he had a stack of handballs, but set up at least 3 goals with awesome vision to hit a team mate who is 5m clear.

Crimso
15 Jun 2008, 14:31
I think we all are born with it, I know I have it. It's not just the vision thing, it's the ability to decide instantly you are aware that something is happening. It's the decision and reaction that gets you into or out of trouble by using the peripheral vision. I suppose its the ability to see greater than the 140 degrees of clear vision and understand what is happening a the edge of vision as quickly as directly in front, both simultaneously.

MacMum
15 Jun 2008, 15:59
I think it is about being alert to whats going on around you, in general....therefore you will notice things to the side of you, pick up on things around you instinctively if always alert and if its a natural pattern of your life...

blynd_freddie
15 Jun 2008, 16:17
I think it is about being alert to whats going on around you, in general....therefore you will notice things to the side of you, pick up on things around you instinctively if always alert and if its a natural pattern of your life...

True MacMum, we see on the tv during the pre-game footage 4 lines of player running diagonally in an “X” pattern handballing, bumping is this not a training drill attempting to amplify and/or teach hand eye reactionary awareness and also to a degree assist in improving peripheral vision?