Burning out the talent before their AFL careers begin?

[footyman]

Discussion topic worth having on here, and expanding on an article in the Leader this week (below) where David Flood (Calder coach) makes some comments about the amount of footy being played by under 18s.

I'll make no secret of the fact I am 100% against the new carnival format. And I believe the benefits it brings are significantly outweighed by the negatives.

But back to the burn out topic, a large majority of Vic Metro players have played a competitive game of football every week since the weekend of March 29th. If you don't believe me then check the calendar. This weekend will be game number 12 in a row...and we're still counting. And that doesnt include anyone that played a practice match for their TAC side the weekend before Round 1 or anyone who plays school footy midweek. Not even the AFL players will play 12 weeks straight without demanding a bye. And when the U18 carnival is done and dusted there are another 11 games of TAC Cup remaining (with just one competition 'bye' in between) for a player whose side lucky enough to make the Grand Final.

The quarter length in TAC Cup this year has been shaved by 2 minutes each - and we had 6 man interchanges for the first month - but this is surely a small consolation for the extra burden being placed on young footballers.

Aside from physically demanding issues mentioned above, how about mental exhaustion? Managing travel, school, work, families and friends must be tough. And there are some guys who have played for three different teams under three different coaches over a period of three consecutive weeks (APS, TAC and Vic Metro/Country). That must take some adjusting to as well.

The TAC Cup is being proudly talked up by the AFL and the new Gold Coast team as the ideal development path for AFL players. And a few year's ago I'd have believed that. But the competition is becoming less and less relevant every year. Private schools are giving out scholarships to talented players quicker than a radio station handing out freebies at train station. And the competition suffers as a result. To compound this, National carnival players are going to miss up to 7 TAC Cup games during the season with championships duties. I'll also bet that by the time these guys are ready to return to their TAC Cup teams they'll be as flat as a tack and unable to show their best form. It might not impact their draft chances as their best form will not be forgotten - but it may impact on school exams and on their first year of AFL footy when they're sitting in a rehab group recovering from injuries sustained while they were running around in pointless school games.

Its an ongoing argument, school footy vs TAC - but I reckon its time for a fairly big overhaul of the TAC competition cos I'm getting frustrated with this stop start competition where the teams chop and change drastically on a weekly basis.

A TAC Cup coach has called on AFL Victoria to introduce guidelines policing the amount of football played by the competition's under-18 players.

Calder Cannons coach David Flood said the difference in standard and the workload on players who tried to balance TAC Cup with school football commitments was a concern.

"These kids want to improve their football and school football is not the best place for that," Flood said.

"There are a handful of good players at each school then the standard drops right off.

"We rested three damn good players (in Round 6) just because they have been playing and training too much.

"It is a long season and we have to ensure they are not overworked."

The issue of TAC Cup football school versus high school football is not a new one.

Victoria's most talented youngsters are selected on TAC Cup lists, but for many of those players who also attend private schools, school football often comes first.

Last year's No. 2 draft pick, Trent Cotchin, only played seven games for the Northern Knights in 2007, and six in 2006.

Geelong Football Club's Tom Hawkins was on the Sandringham Dragons list in 2006, but did not play a game for the Dragons that season before being drafted.

Flood said there should be guidelines in place to ensure balance.

"AFL Victoria should be setting criteria for kids that they can only train twice a week and play once, so the schools and TAC Cup can follow those guidelines.

"These kids have enormous pressure on them, not just from football but from study and homework as well."

"I don't want to get into a debate, that's not my job, but it is tough on the kids."

Western Jet and Victoria Metro footballer Mitchell Banner told the Leader recently it was hard juggling his football commitments with school.

"Your first priority is Victoria Metro and the TAC Cup but when you go to school on a football basis you are expected to play there," he said.

Banner said some weeks he would train three or four times and play twice.

"With all the exercise I do there are some days when I get up I just can't (make it to class) because I'm so tired."

But Banner said his school, Essendon Keilor College, was respectful of his other football commitments.

"I didn't play (school football) for a few weeks because of Victoria Metro, so I thought I should play when I could.

"But even then I only played one quarter and that was all they expected of me."

Flood agreed some schools were more understanding than others.

But AFL Victoria operations manager John Hook said regulations would not work.

"Like it or not, there is a huge ratio of private school players, so the TAC Cup clubs and the schools have to work together to compromise on an individual basis.

"It has always been the case, even under the old zoning system.

"I don't think hard and fast rules would solve anything, it would be detrimental to the competition.

"You couldn't dictate that players could only play in one of the other."

Mr Hook said while he understood the complexities of the situation, there was no easy fix.

"Of course the TAC Cup competition is a better standard than private school football, it's not a black-and-white matter.

"It is very difficult to manage and I can understand why TAC Cup coaches would be frustrated, but there is not an easy solution.

"The only way is to work with the schools and do the best thing for the kids."

[rotto]

Easy fix. Dont allow players who play more games with their private school be able to be drafted or selected to the state sides.

[its game on]

Excellent topic Footyman.

Interesting to note that the Calder Cannons coach has raised it, the Metro kids would only be spending a fraction of the time on travelling to their training, and their game days, compared to the country players.

The Pios and Bushies players are spending a hell of a lot more time in training and game day travel. The Bushies players sometimes don't get home till 10'oclock after training and sometimes later. (Kyabram's a long trip from Wangaratta)

At this stage some of the Metro kids are in the second hour of study after a home cooked meal.

I think the concern is legitimate, but it's a lot worse for the country players.

[Sezzac1]

Even easier. Make the draft age U19 and problem solved to some extent.

By the time the kids are draftable most have a licence, they have done year 12 and they can concentrate on the TAC if that's what they want once the TAC is increased to U19 as well.

[its game on]

Even easier. Make the draft age U19 and problem solved to some extent.

By the time the kids are draftable most have a licence, they have done year 12 and they can concentrate on the TAC if that's what they want once the TAC is increased to U19 as well.

Second that motion Sezzac1

[missionpossible]

Interesting issue and we were discussing it the other day.

My simple solution - ban school football and all is solved.

Second solution - if you play school football you will not be elligible for the draft.

OK now welcome back to the real world and none of that is going to work as schools have to much self interest at their heart.

Now for a workable solution.

A kid is allowed to play 28 games of football for a year

this is based on the basis of 2 pre-season games, 22 home and away games, and 4 finals (if they play in a drawn grand final they can play another game)

A player is only allowed to play once per week and are only allowed to train for one organisation per week. (vic country kids allowed to train with their local club if only training one day or less with their TAC club). If a player is training with his state squad he can not train for his club.

If a player is playing school football must train with that school during the week leading up to playing with the school and when playing TAC they can only train with their TAC club. If a player is found to be training with more than one body he is to be suspended for a week.

Players in the AIS squad must miss a week upon their return from AIS commitments.

As for the championships, if we are going to have the extended carnival can we get it over and done with in 5 weeks rather than dragging it out like they are doing.

[its game on]

Some APS schools are very insular when it come to sharing their better (also TAC) players to also train with a TAC club.

APS training is twice a week and I know 1 TAC club which will not let 'their' players train a third time with them as it just too much. One APS school is now letting this happen but only because their school is out of the running for the APS premiership. I can guarantee that if their season was still 'live' there would be no chance of that happening, even though the players are exposed to better coaching and rehab programs.

[footyman]

As for the championships, if we are going to have the extended carnival can we get it over and done with in 5 weeks rather than dragging it out like they are doing.
That is the most sensible thing I have read on here in a long time! What a joke the schedule is. Tassie and NSW/ACT are have played the last two weekends and play again tomorrow, then they dont play for 3 weeks til they come to Melbourne and play their last two games over 5 days! And the Vics five games are drawn out over 7 weeks. Just stupid.

I'd like to see the school system cut back a bit - I know there is history but some of those schools are so far apart when it comes to standard that its not funny. Games like Haileybury v Wesley and PEGS v Ivanhoe are just one sided garbage and depriving talented kids the chance to strut their stuff in a standard they should be playing in (TAC Cup). The only thing that happens to them there is that they get burnt out.

The whole thing right now is a mess that probably will never get fixed unless there is major AFL intervention because schools and the TAC Cup management will never sort it out.

[its game on]

That is the most sensible thing I have read on here in a long time! What a joke the schedule is. Tassie and NSW/ACT are have played the last two weekends and play again tomorrow, then they dont play for 3 weeks til they come to Melbourne and play their last two games over 5 days! And the Vics five games are drawn out over 7 weeks. Just stupid.

I'd like to see the school system cut back a bit - I know there is history but some of those schools are so far apart when it comes to standard that its not funny. Games like Haileybury v Wesley and PEGS v Ivanhoe are just one sided garbage and depriving talented kids the chance to strut their stuff in a standard they should be playing in (TAC Cup). The only thing that happens to them there is that they get burnt out.

The whole thing right now is a mess that probably will never get fixed unless there is major AFL intervention because schools and the TAC Cup management will never sort it out.

How much pruning can be done to 10 game season with already so many byes, breaks and no final series?

[footyman]

How much pruning can be done to 10 game season with already so many byes, breaks and no final series? I reckon two schools too many are in the AGS and APS competitions. I reckon an 8 round season is enough. The APS has an 11 round season, the AGS has a 9 round season plus a week of finals at the end. Then there is the APS v AGS rep game at the end of the year. Then some schools also have teams in the Herald Sun shield too.

It'll never happen but I'd like to see the 10 AGS schools and 11 APS schools merge together into one competition and form three divisions of seven teams - all evenly matched - and promote and relegate sides accordingly. Each side would then play six home and away round games, then I reckon they could work out some sort of finals series either within divisions or bringing the top two sides from each group through or something like that to get it to eight games a year.

[Richard Cranium]

Even easier. Make the draft age U19 and problem solved to some extent.

By the time the kids are draftable most have a licence, they have done year 12 and they can concentrate on the TAC if that's what they want once the TAC is increased to U19 as well.
That's what they have set up for the 09 draft already. Moved the cut off date from April 31 to December 31.

[rooboy_88]

Bit off the topic but have the TAC cup and the VFL merge and say sides like willy can have U/17's and U/19's.

Better development and maybe minimise the amount of school footy played.

[WatchOut]

Yes, I was very impressed when I read Floods article and totally agree with it.

Private schools are giving out scholarships to talented players quicker than a radio station handing out freebies at train station. - Oh so true.
PEGS has given out some this year to boys who cannot yet get a game at the Cannons and one cannot even make the u/16 cannons squad.

I am not going to get into the same old arguement of which comp is better TAC or School footy because we all have out own views on this.

Flood has really come down on how many games of footy the boys play a week. He has practically given them the option - school or TAC. Not both. He doesn't like his players to play 2 games a week. He should be commended on this as he is really looking out for his players futures and not winning at all costs.

[chrsco]

Great topic and I've long thought they are put under enormous physical and mental pressure before kicking a ball in anger. Just read a Jack Watts article and he was trying to combine basketball with footy over the champs and his body couldn't cope. I watch some of the colts footballers over here in WA and we've got quite a few playing league in the WAFL. Sometimes they just look plain stuffed before they start playing so Flood's got a good point and I agree - good to see him looking out for the kids.

[one 4 the road]

Footyman
The way I see it (as a parent of a Div 2 player), the new format for the National Carnival is brilliant for Div 2 players but maybe not so good for the TAC Cup, but is the TAC Cup about winning a premiership or making the boys ready for the rigors of AFL?
I don't know or understand the TAC v School issue but with teams coming into the AFL (GC in 2011 and West Sydney 2012) then I believe this is more about giving every boy in Oz the opportunity to show their wares to as many people as they can against the best oppostion.
If the boys aren't playing for their state then they would be playing TAC (or school), but isn't the more games you play with/against the best going to bring out the best in you?
Can only talk about NSW but the boys in the squad either play for their state, or TAC, but the reaiming are playing Senior football against men and for clubs that want them as often as they are available.
At least when they are with the state program they are monitored very closely and if they need a rest it is odered, no questions asked, but back at their teams thy are just required,no questions asked.
The new format gives everyone the chance to experience what AFL is really like, travel, then back up again the next week (against the best) and it gives every state the chance to play some games at home.
Maybe it could be done over 5 consectitive weekends but then clubs would really complain they they wont see their better player for a long time.
So what I'm really asking is do recruiters look at a just the champs or do they want to see a guy over a whole season? and if its the second then why have camps at all? just send the recruiters out all over the country for the year and hope to christ that the guy plays well on the day they come.
I believe it is the first and one of the resons for the new format is to give the best two Div 2 sids each year a chance to show what they can do against Div 1 and then let the recruiters compare them on the field and not just in their heads where over the years, they will take he Div 1 because they have seen him against the rest.

[footyman]

Footyman
The way I see it (as a parent of a Div 2 player), the new format for the National Carnival is brilliant for Div 2 players but maybe not so good for the TAC Cup, but is the TAC Cup about winning a premiership or making the boys ready for the rigors of AFL?
I don't know or understand the TAC v School issue but with teams coming into the AFL (GC in 2011 and West Sydney 2012) then I believe this is more about giving every boy in Oz the opportunity to show their wares to as many people as they can against the best oppostion.
If the boys aren't playing for their state then they would be playing TAC (or school), but isn't the more games you play with/against the best going to bring out the best in you?
Can only talk about NSW but the boys in the squad either play for their state, or TAC, but the reaiming are playing Senior football against men and for clubs that want them as often as they are available.
At least when they are with the state program they are monitored very closely and if they need a rest it is odered, no questions asked, but back at their teams thy are just required,no questions asked.
The new format gives everyone the chance to experience what AFL is really like, travel, then back up again the next week (against the best) and it gives every state the chance to play some games at home.
Maybe it could be done over 5 consectitive weekends but then clubs would really complain they they wont see their better player for a long time.
So what I'm really asking is do recruiters look at a just the champs or do they want to see a guy over a whole season? and if its the second then why have camps at all? just send the recruiters out all over the country for the year and hope to christ that the guy plays well on the day they come.
I believe it is the first and one of the resons for the new format is to give the best two Div 2 sids each year a chance to show what they can do against Div 1 and then let the recruiters compare them on the field and not just in their heads where over the years, they will take he Div 1 because they have seen him against the rest. The new carnival format (like all things the AFL do) is aimed at NSW/ACT and QLD.

For the aim of improving a few Div 2 players - most of which will end up playing Sydney AFL or Canberra AFL or SFL or NTFL in Tasmania - the AFL are going to a lot of expense and having an impact on many people - from local clubs, to recruiters, to the players themselves and their families.

Tasmania played Queens Birthday then backed up 5 days later. Now they have three weeks til their next game. Then they play twice again within 5 days. That's lousy.

And besides, I'm not sure I buy the spin about this Div 2 set up being good for the Div 2 players. Sure, it is for the ones who get through to Div 1. But under the old system where these sides played three TAC Cup matches each, then had the challenge cup so it gave these states five hard, competitive hit outs before the nationals. It gave coaches a chance to put their players under the microscope and try things. I think a few sides rushed their preparation, and didn't come into Div 2 anywhere near ready. Those kids will suffer as a result.

[WatchOut]

[quote=one 4 the road;11393516]Footyman
but is the TAC Cup about winning a premiership or making the boys ready for the rigors of AFL?


Great comments one 4 the road.

IMO the nat champs set out this year is managing to give the TAC boys a bye on those weekends which is great. I would hope that for the TAC coaches it is more about developing the boys for AFL than about winning.

In Melbourne a lot of school footy is played on a Weekday thus the boys being expected to play 2 games a week, TAC training, VM training & school training. Some of the schools play on a Saturday which makes it a little bit easier pressure wise as these boys cannot play TAC cup.

So what I'm really asking is do recruiters look at a just the champs or do they want to see a guy over a whole season? ]

Both are taken into account. Every TAC game has AFL selectors in attendance each weekend. Every year boys who don't make National Champs are also drafted.

[the rotating forward]

Schools only play 10 games, thus boys could potentially play 10 for school and 10 for TAC. Now they might be missing 2 or 3 school games and 2 TAC games due to national champs. Overall, they would play 7 or 8 school games, 8 TAC and 5 national champs. I reckon that's a fairly even spread.

What I would be more worried about is when the player is playing 7, 8 and 5 games respectively for teams when he is trying to get drafted - when it comes down to the individual vs. the team, he would probably choose the team in all 3 occasions for his commitments have been spread over all three and doesn't feel an absolute connection to any. That would be my biggest worry.

__________________________________

Also, the idea of merging the APS and AGS would be interesting. 11 + 9 teams woud make 2 x 10 team competitions, would be much more even and would mean that teams are forced to make their scholarship players play when at the bottom of the ladder instead of releasing them to TAC.

________________________________

Another point that should be being raised is the issue of scholarships. Some schools nowadays are just buying in top end quality in yr 10, 11 and 12 who play 1sts immediately. Thus the player feels no real connection and school spirit, and offers little else to the school.

Personally, I think schools must be forced to give sports scholarships to kids at the latest start of year 9, when the player is still a but of a gamble, and will also have to be developed by the school to become the sort of player they want, instead of being bought in from TAC or elsewhere, having been developed by other teams for other purposes.

This will mean that schools will have to commit more to the scholarships (will cost more, more time and effort will have to be spent, more likely to receive endless abuse if a 7As footy side is stacked with scholarships), and the boys themselves will have to commit more to the school, and they will probably feel more school spirit and like less of an import.

[one 4 the road]

The new carnival format (like all things the AFL do) is aimed at NSW/ACT and QLD.

For the aim of improving a few Div 2 players - most of which will end up playing Sydney AFL or Canberra AFL or SFL or NTFL in Tasmania - the AFL are going to a lot of expense and having an impact on many people - from local clubs, to recruiters, to the players themselves and their families.

Tasmania played Queens Birthday then backed up 5 days later. Now they have three weeks til their next game. Then they play twice again within 5 days. That's lousy.

And besides, I'm not sure I buy the spin about this Div 2 set up being good for the Div 2 players. Sure, it is for the ones who get through to Div 1. But under the old system where these sides played three TAC Cup matches each, then had the challenge cup so it gave these states five hard, competitive hit outs before the nationals. It gave coaches a chance to put their players under the microscope and try things. I think a few sides rushed their preparation, and didn't come into Div 2 anywhere near ready. Those kids will suffer as a result.
Agree with you on the draw for Tassie, but as I stated before it could have been over 5 weekends then local clubs would really howl.
I also think the draw has been done so recruiters can go to all matches (besides the games in melbourne, no games are on the same day).
With the new format it puts more emphasis on performing at the qualiflying rounds because the prize is huge, but from your post it is alright for Div 2 players to be away from their clubs for 5 weeks but not the TAC or school players?(read Victorians?) Just because kids are from non footballing states doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same opportunity as all other states.
You mightn't buy the spin about Div 2 but I can assure you that for a Div 2 guy to be playing against Div 1 (and then actually winning a game) is the greatest thing in rep footy that these boys have had the chance to do.

[footyman]

from your post it is alright for Div 2 players to be away from their clubs for 5 weeks but not the TAC or school players?(read Victorians?) Never said that, I personally dont think anyone would be happy with the fact players are away from clubs for 5 weeks. But I'd rather 5 straight weeks than seeing players play one National game, one club game, one national game, two club games, one national game etc. For me ideally, concentrate on the local club, then play rep footy, then back to the club. Not mixed together.


Just because kids are from non footballing states doesn't mean they shouldn't have the same opportunity as all other states.
You mightn't buy the spin about Div 2 but I can assure you that for a Div 2 guy to be playing against Div 1 (and then actually winning a game) is the greatest thing in rep footy that these boys have had the chance to do.
It evens it up slightly, but its already an uneven playing field. The Gold Coast team get free ride on the QLD kids for the next 3-5 years and the farcical NSW scholarship rule has ruined any desire I have to watch NSW play.

If we're talking about giving everyone the same opportunity, how about Vic kids being paid $40,000 to play TAC Cup next year like the QLD kids or being able to train with an AFL team at 15 years of age and get minimum of $10,000 a year for the pleasure like the NSW kids. Dont give me that "we're disadvantaged up here" crap.

Those two states are more than being looked after by the AFL.

[southjoy]

We have the same issue here in WA. For years the Private schools and the Colts competition have had clashes. The school's get priority and Colts sides only see the boys at certain times during the year. For kids who border the Colts see the kids less than the kids who go home during the day. The WAFL has changed the age group for the colts to 19yrs but most of the talented players are playing Senior WAFL football by their last year(another issue altogether).
Ultimately if the AFL changed the draft age then this would allow kids to finish their final year of school and for some -major exams, there wouldn't be as much angst between WAFL and the private schools and we would allow players to get more rest, growth and development into them.
Kids who play representative football want to play as much as they can and oft when they go back to their junior club or country town feel very peer pressured into playing games of extra football.

[one 4 the road]

Never said that, I personally dont think anyone would be happy with the fact players are away from clubs for 5 weeks. But I'd rather 5 straight weeks than seeing players play one National game, one club game, one national game, two club games, one national game etc. For me ideally, concentrate on the local club, then play rep footy, then back to the club. Not mixed together.


It evens it up slightly, but its already an uneven playing field. The Gold Coast team get free ride on the QLD kids for the next 3-5 years and the farcical NSW scholarship rule has ruined any desire I have to watch NSW play.

If we're talking about giving everyone the same opportunity, how about Vic kids being paid $40,000 to play TAC Cup next year like the QLD kids or being able to train with an AFL team at 15 years of age and get minimum of $10,000 a year for the pleasure like the NSW kids. Dont give me that "we're disadvantaged up here" crap.

Those two states are more than being looked after by the AFL.

I see your point about Qld but how many from Qld do you think will realistically make it?
I believe 5 at the most.
Don't start me on the NSW scholarship scheme, we live in NSW yet are ineligible (we don't live in Sydney, thats what it should be called).
How much is Dangerfield getting paid this year to play TAC?
Our local comp is up to round 11 and has had a bye and yet he has been available for only 3 games, will play for locals next 2 weeks and then away again for 2 games in Melbourne.
All does go back to you original thread topic and I think we are making boys play too many games, but most guys want to play for their local clubs first and foremost and any or all rep games are an evil necessity for their ultimate goal to be reached.

[footyman]

All does go back to you original thread topic and I think we are making boys play too many games, but most guys want to play for their local clubs first and foremost and any or all rep games are an evil necessity for their ultimate goal to be reached.
Correct.

But do NSW/ACT Rams really need to play 1 TAC Cup game, 3 Div. 2 games and 5 Div. 1 games?

I find that all too much as well.

By the end NSW/ACT and Tas will have played each state team once. Not even the Vics do that!!!

[one 4 the road]

Even if they didn't make the Div 1 stage they would still have played a further 3 games against TAC Cup sides, so they are only playing 2 more than Qld and NT.
How do you propose they work out who goes up? or do you think that the champs should revert back to just the big 4 and just let the recruiters guess on Div 2 players.
Now in the future there is no way that just NSW/ACT players or just Qlds will be placed at the new clubs, they would be uncompetitive BUT
if you want to be fair dinkum then for a 7 week period each year everyone plays everyone, that would solve everything, for a 7 week period everyone would know where the best kids would be playing and against who.
Just a thought.

[footyman]

How do you propose they work out who goes up? or do you think that the champs should revert back to just the big 4 and just let the recruiters guess on Div 2 players.
Now in the future there is no way that just NSW/ACT players or just Qlds will be placed at the new clubs, they would be uncompetitive BUT
if you want to be fair dinkum then for a 7 week period each year everyone plays everyone, that would solve everything, for a 7 week period everyone would know where the best kids would be playing and against who.
Just a thought.
I reckon the Div 2 winner should go through only. Four rounds is enough.

If we have to have the top two progress, then I reckon the Div 2 should be set up so that the game between those two teams counts towards the Div 1 results, I think its pointless them playing again (well if you are a NSW fan you'll disagree) and I suspect many AFL clubs wouldve been very thinly represented down in Tassie on Saturday.

If it aint broke dont fix it - the old system wasnt broken. I didnt need this mega overhaul.

But back to the topic - within the past three months some kids have travelled to Ireland with the AIS, jetted all around Australia playing U18 nationals, played for their local teams and played for their schools. We're killing them with that sort of workload. And thats not including time for school work, friends, families, girlfriends. These guys are bloody amazing how they fit everything in. But somewhere something has to give. For some it will be their school work. For others it might be their bodies that suffer injuries/fatigue etc.

[one 4 the road]

I reckon the Div 2 winner should go through only. Four rounds is enough.

If we have to have the top two progress, then I reckon the Div 2 should be set up so that the game between those two teams counts towards the Div 1 results, I think its pointless them playing again (well if you are a NSW fan you'll disagree) and I suspect many AFL clubs wouldve been very thinly represented down in Tassie on Saturday.


If it aint broke dont fix it - the old system wasnt broken. I didnt need this mega overhaul.


But back to the topic - within the past three months some kids have travelled to Ireland with the AIS, jetted all around Australia playing U18 nationals, played for their local teams and played for their schools. We're killing them with that sort of workload. And thats not including time for school work, friends, families, girlfriends. These guys are bloody amazing how they fit everything in. But somewhere something has to give. For some it will be their school work. For others it might be their bodies that suffer injuries/fatigue etc.

There were 9 clubs represented (that I knew could have been more).

With 2 new AFL clubs coming in from Div 2 state something had to change.

Totally agree, we expect so much from all of them for a very long time (not just last 3 months) but probably last 18 months, and when they do make it only a very select few stand up for the first year.

[Dean3]

Add in the fact that there is a less than 10% chance that you'll be drafted out of a TAC Cup side, and you can see why there is a pretty big drop-off rate from TAC lists.

I don't blame these kids for just wanting to play at a proper footy club with mates, without pressure and constant assessment and physical hardship/burn out. Anyone with any brains can see that most of them are being strung along, made to feel like they might have an AFL career ahead of them, and then unceremoniously dumped or drop out when they realise that they are only there to make up numbers so that Kreuzer et al can look good.

[Boundary Boy]

Wow. What a topic. I feel compelled to put in my two bobs worth becasue I agree with the sentiment of David Flood's article and understand the underlying reasons for getting it out in to the public domain. I commend Flood for raising this issue. It was very delibarate.

Whilst Flood has the kid's best interest at heart (ie a balance btw TAC & school footy) I believe he and many others believe that the school system demands are not only unhealthy for the individual players but are detrimental to the development of the players and the ultimate strength of the premier junior footy comp in Australia - TAC.

The TAC's stated mission is to provide the best possible development opportunities for prospective AFL footballers: not winning footy premierships. In contrast school footy is selfishly motivated by a school's thirst for winning a premiership and bragging rights within a very small pond (APS, AGS, ACC etc). It is not about developing the individual.

The AFL & AFL Victoria should be making every effort to ensuring the TAC competition is the premier competition week-in week-out. Policies should be developed that re-inforce this ethos. Selection to representative teams should be based soley from TAC form. Prospective draftees & their parents should be made aware that the best chance of being drafted is via the TAC competition and that AFL recruiters will only attend TAC games (or higher level) for the purpose of nominating footballers for draft camps etc...

For someone who has closely followed the selection process for state rep sides in the past 2-3 years I am gob-smacked and somewhat frustrated at the level of emphasis slanted toward footballers playing in high profile school football competitions. And based on what? There is no way the depth of any APS/AGs football team has any where near the depth of a TAC team. So why is such credence given to performances at school footy when the competiton is way inferior to TAC. In part I think the answer is that : recruiters have become lazy and are happy to wallow in the private school system; coaches and support staff of rep sides are often drawn from the private school system or financial beneficiaries of the private school system are well networked within the overall recruiting selection system.

To re-iterate the AFL & AFL-Victoria should take every measure and implement policies to ensure it has the best players playing TAC football every week.

The players and their families will be forever grateful as they won't feel caught as the meat in the sandwhich btw TAC & school footy. Furthermore, those players who would have been a target for private school advances won't have to make premature life changing decisions (causing family uphieval) to attend a private school on the promise of a better chance of getting drafted.

[Sezzac1]

Good post 1FTR.

The problem with the recruitment system at the moment is trying to compare apples with oranges across all the States.

In all bar Victoria the kids can play against men in the open age comps at any time. In Vic the TAC kids only play against other TAC kids.

Rich and Hartlett play in their States Senior Comps but Hurley at 192cm and 92kg has to play TAC.

The system allows Robinson to play for Tassie as a 19 yr old against a 17 yr old i.e. Sam Blease.

SA has both U17 and U19 comps so that throws another spanner in the works.

Private school football in Vic and SA puts enormous pressure on the kids to often play two games. No-wonder some plays look tired in some Saturday games.

The last 2 NT representative teams sent to Melbourne to play in the TAC cup have been the quality of an U15 side. The high number of their 19 yr olds from the U18 Champs have all gone back to playing senior footy in SA and the rest of their talent is playing Private school footy in Melb.

The System is like a Mad Woman’s Breakfast. A couple of suggestions to fix it might be as follows ....

All under age Comps across the land should be U17 & U19.

If a 16 yr old is good enough he can play U19 but not open age. Being u17 and playing u19 footy would be dependent on other footy workload i.e. Private school football.

AFL Draft age to be U19.

Either every State allows the best U19 players to play in their Senior teams or none of them do. As Vic is the odd man out I would have TAC clubs align with VFL clubs. Kids would only be permitted to play in the Open age Comps i.e VFL if they were draftable that year i.e 18 yrs of age and after completing their games in the U19 champs and/or their School football commitments. U19 Champs should aim to end by mid July.

The U18 Champs go up to U19 Champs. If they stick to 5 rounds in the U19 champs then they try to fixture as many double and triple headers as they can on the weekends. They also try and play the 5 rounds over 5 weekends or near enough to it. Obviously School Holidays and Public Holidays come into the equation.

The entire process is about having a similar level playing field, as much as is possible, across the entire country. It’s about development, comparing apples with apples and having natural feeder clubs up through the ranks in all States.

The raise in the age limit in the TAC and the draft would allow kids that extra year to mature, finish school and develop physically to play against men. Recruiters would see how the kids fair against their peers in the 1st half of the year and possibly against men in the later part of the season, if the kid is good enough.

The advantage of allowing the better players to move up out of the U19 comp into the open age is that it also allows other U19 players to be played in new roles i.e. the backpocket now gets an onball role and the part-time bench warming ruck now gets 3 quarters in the ruck to show his abilities.

1 proviso I might suggest is that if a kid is to play open age footy in the 2nd half of the year, it would only be in the open Senior team and not the open Reserves team. If the kid is not good enough or physically mature enough to be considered for selection in the Senior team then he stays in the U19 team.

[footyman]

Good post 1FTR.

The problem with the recruitment system at the moment is trying to compare apples with oranges across all the States.

In all bar Victoria the kids can play against men in the open age comps at any time. In Vic the TAC kids only play against other TAC kids.

Rich and Hartlett play in their States Senior Comps but Hurley at 192cm and 92kg has to play TAC.

The system allows Robinson to play for Tassie as a 19 yr old against a 17 yr old i.e. Sam Blease.

SA has both U17 and U19 comps so that throws another spanner in the works.

Private school football in Vic and SA puts enormous pressure on the kids to often play two games. No-wonder some plays look tired in some Saturday games.

The last 2 NT representative teams sent to Melbourne to play in the TAC cup have been the quality of an U15 side. The high number of their 19 yr olds from the U18 Champs have all gone back to playing senior footy in SA and the rest of their talent is playing Private school footy in Melb.

The System is like a Mad Woman’s Breakfast. A couple of suggestions to fix it might be as follows ....

All under age Comps across the land should be U17 & U19.

If a 16 yr old is good enough he can play U19 but not open age. Being u17 and playing u19 footy would be dependent on other footy workload i.e. Private school football.

AFL Draft age to be U19.

Either every State allows the best U19 players to play in their Senior teams or none of them do. As Vic is the odd man out I would have TAC clubs align with VFL clubs. Kids would only be permitted to play in the Open age Comps i.e VFL if they were draftable that year i.e 18 yrs of age and after completing their games in the U19 champs and/or their School football commitments. U19 Champs should aim to end by mid July.

The U18 Champs go up to U19 Champs. If they stick to 5 rounds in the U19 champs then they try to fixture as many double and triple headers as they can on the weekends. They also try and play the 5 rounds over 5 weekends or near enough to it. Obviously School Holidays and Public Holidays come into the equation.

The entire process is about having a similar level playing field, as much as is possible, across the entire country. It’s about development, comparing apples with apples and having natural feeder clubs up through the ranks in all States.

The raise in the age limit in the TAC and the draft would allow kids that extra year to mature, finish school and develop physically to play against men. Recruiters would see how the kids fair against their peers in the 1st half of the year and possibly against men in the later part of the season, if the kid is good enough.

The advantage of allowing the better players to move up out of the U19 comp into the open age is that it also allows other U19 players to be played in new roles i.e. the backpocket now gets an onball role and the part-time bench warming ruck now gets 3 quarters in the ruck to show his abilities.

1 proviso I might suggest is that if a kid is to play open age footy in the 2nd half of the year, it would only be in the open Senior team and not the open Reserves team. If the kid is not good enough or physically mature enough to be considered for selection in the Senior team then he stays in the U19 team.
Out - Shifter Sheehan
In - Sezzac1

?????????

You make a lot of sense chief. I agree about standardising competitions, unfortunately right now its all over the place and the more they try to fix it, the messier it becomes!!!

[one 4 the road]

Out - Shifter Sheehan
In - Sezzac1

?????????

You make a lot of sense chief. I agree about standardising competitions, unfortunately right now its all over the place and the more they try to fix it, the messier it becomes!!!
Great thoughts Sezzac1.
It is all over the place because every state, then club, wants to have control and access to a good junior player. These clubs have been the ones who have taught the young bloke the game and in most cases the young men look forward to playing for the senior side at the club they started with.
It will never be standardize because no state is willing to give any ground (or advantage) they have over others.
The TAC is the best 18's comp in Oz because everyone knows that you will be up against the best in their age group and seen on a regular basis by recruiters. In other states the underage comps are not as good therefore the better juniors are pushed up to a higher standard, usually against men, and this shows when they come back to underage footy in the way they approach the ball and the physicality of the way they play.
You are never going to get all other states to have a standard of 18's footy like Victoria and for a good player in a non football state (NSW, Qld NT and possibly Tassie) then these boys have to go against men.

(Still doesn't solve the problem of young men playing too much footy!!!!)

[saintscrazy]

I reckon the Div 2 winner should go through only. Four rounds is enough.

If we have to have the top two progress, then I reckon the Div 2 should be set up so that the game between those two teams counts towards the Div 1 results, I think its pointless them playing again (well if you are a NSW fan you'll disagree) and I suspect many AFL clubs wouldve been very thinly represented down in Tassie on Saturday.

If it aint broke dont fix it - the old system wasnt broken. I didnt need this mega overhaul.

But back to the topic - within the past three months some kids have travelled to Ireland with the AIS, jetted all around Australia playing U18 nationals, played for their local teams and played for their schools. We're killing them with that sort of workload. And thats not including time for school work, friends, families, girlfriends. These guys are bloody amazing how they fit everything in. But somewhere something has to give. For some it will be their school work. For others it might be their bodies that suffer injuries/fatigue etc.


I so agree with your last paragraph - there is so much pressure on these "kids" to perform that noone looks outside the square, and if they have a bad game or two (like alot have recently) again noone takes those pressures into account, family, school and catching up from being away, friends, alot of them wouldnt be playing with their mates they would be playing at least two years ahead, girlfriends if they are lucky enough to be around to get one....

In my opinion these boys do a fantastic job week in week out, they have probably three different coaches in one season, three different game plans some within the same month, three different trainings to try to get to, probably extra training to work on a "deficiency" or if they dont do extra training looked at being lazy or disinterested - gee they cant win at times - then with all this training have to fit in good eating habits, study and homework, family commitments and a girlfriend = l o l