View Full Version : The Boyle Conundrum
philhawk
16 Jun 2008, 01:30
So what do you do about Boyley if you're the selection panel?
The bloke is obviously a talented player, but has been veeeeery underwhelming whenever he has been picked to play this year - particularly in comparison to last year.
What do you do?
Drop him and play a small instead?
Give him a few more weeks to find his feet?
Whilst we're still winning, it probably wont be a major issue, but the knives will well and truly come out if we start losing in the near future.
Should Boyle be dropped to BH for a while to get back into form?
He doesn't look nervous and he can't be overconfident I wouldn't think, and nothing stands out as a particular flaw in his game, so I say just give him time to find his feet.
He's an investment we've already bought and we might as well hold onto him until the the evidence proves irrefutable.
It would be a mistake not to do that, especially whilst the team's winning!
cschreuder61
16 Jun 2008, 01:48
I personally think we are lacking runners and good sides will exploit that.
I'd be looking to get guys like Tuck, McGlynn, Crawford, Guerra back into the side, and I think Boyle may have to be one to step aside for that to happen.
Good player, but I like our 3 forward set up of Williams Roughead and Franklin, and think we'd be better off playing a more mobile player than Boyle IMO.
#6 Mark Williams
16 Jun 2008, 01:54
Boyle is doing something wrong he hasn't even had one set shot yet in two games. He's got to get his act together fast, otherwise he might have to do it via the Box Hill Hawks.
I'd like to see one game in which we actually kick it to him. 90% of the time we go to Franklin, then the remaining time we go to Roughead. It can be hard to judge some of the time on TV but you often see Boyle on his own leading for the ball in the corner of the screen while we kick it to Franklin and three defenders.
Take the classic bit of play from the Essendon game were Franklin runs through the middle of the ground on his own only to reach a contest where he pushes Fletcher out. You can see Boyle near the previous contest on the wing, goal side on his own calling for the ball, and then running hard towards the 50, but the ball is kicked over his head to Franklin again.
flyby hawk
16 Jun 2008, 07:48
jedi007 - slow down - support your team & PLAYERS:thumbsu:
He must be dropped after that debacle of a performance. Box Hill seems likely. Beau Dowler to come in.
9soontobe10
16 Jun 2008, 08:30
Get off his back.
Obviously at the moment he is struggling, for me I'd run him off the bench, keep him in the team gain some confidence. The Hawks can afford to do this, we have a few good smalls, to keep him company. As welll not to many of the Dowlers,Thorps etc, are rising to the occasion.
I can't beleive that Hawthorn supporters ridicule their players, it's so Richmond.
As welll not to many of the Dowlers,Thorps etc, are rising to the occasion.
Box Hill is a forwards' graveyard. Dowler will be great, and the kid needs a run. Boyle needs a few weeks there and then bring him back.
The current forward setup also doesn't help Tim too much.
9soontobe10
16 Jun 2008, 08:54
Now I don't live in Vic, but I do have a lot of relo's who do and follow the Hawks and are members. And they also beleive that they just can't see Dowler in the team, I know that he should at one stage be given a go, but at the expense of Boyle, no I don't think so.
And I beleive that Clarko and the match committee would have done so by now. I also don't like to bring down any Hawk player, and I truly hope that Dowler and co can make the grade eventually.
FriarTuck
16 Jun 2008, 09:05
I like what Boiler brings to the team. Three marking targets are hard to cover and they do split well. Our game plan will starve him of opportunities.
On the box they showed Boiler walking off after the game. He did not look right.
lethalselbow
16 Jun 2008, 09:08
Being a decoy must be no fun at all. It looks like he's doing a fair bit of his job, but he really must start demanding some ball.
I think he'll stay in this week, but he'll need to make sure he has a good game.
On the Boyle
16 Jun 2008, 09:11
Being at the game this week, I'd have to say that he did a lot more than you'd think - it's just that we're so Buddy conscious.
He's not had great games of late so people are wary of kicking to him, but this should have been a game where we focused on Boyle and Roughead until the Cows spread their defence. Oh well...
wallyt99
16 Jun 2008, 09:50
As I said in another thread, drop him for a week - Bring back Taylor and rotate Campbell, Taylor and Renouf in the Ruck, Bench, Third tall/Decoy, CHB position.
Is a great way to make sure Renouf gets another crack, as it is only fair to give the kid another game after his solid performance. If it doesn't work out, Boyle will be better off from his time in the Magoos, kicking a few goals and knowing he needs to put forward pressure to get his spot back.
Roberiquez
16 Jun 2008, 09:57
As I said in another thread, drop him for a week - Bring back Taylor and rotate Campbell, Taylor and Renouf in the Ruck, Bench, Third tall/Decoy, CHB position.
Is a great way to make sure Renouf gets another crack, as it is only fair to give the kid another game after his solid performance. If it doesn't work out, Boyle will be better off from his time in the Magoos, kicking a few goals and knowing he needs to put forward pressure to get his spot back.
I really like this idea. Will it work, we have a very harmonious ruck system, is 3 better then 2?
As I said in another thread, drop him for a week - Bring back Taylor and rotate Campbell, Taylor and Renouf in the Ruck, Bench, Third tall/Decoy, CHB position.
Is a great way to make sure Renouf gets another crack, as it is only fair to give the kid another game after his solid performance. If it doesn't work out, Boyle will be better off from his time in the Magoos, kicking a few goals and knowing he needs to put forward pressure to get his spot back.
i like it. make this happen
As I said in another thread, drop him for a week - Bring back Taylor and rotate Campbell, Taylor and Renouf in the Ruck, Bench, Third tall/Decoy, CHB position.
Is a great way to make sure Renouf gets another crack, as it is only fair to give the kid another game after his solid performance. If it doesn't work out, Boyle will be better off from his time in the Magoos, kicking a few goals and knowing he needs to put forward pressure to get his spot back.
I'm on board with this idea too wally. Great call and the thing is that Bob can play pretty much anywhere so i reckon we can make it happen and make it work
Hawks1523
16 Jun 2008, 10:30
Williams can play taller then he is, is Stokes a chance to come back in when he's fit to let Boyle get fit and get some form back in Box Hill for a while?
noosa hawk mad
16 Jun 2008, 13:02
Give him another game & actually kick it to him!
Dixie Flatline
16 Jun 2008, 13:22
Boyle's position in the 22 is safe as houses at the minute.
The reason?
He is following his coach's instructions perfectly.
Against Essendon, he dragged his man away from the forward area where Buddy likes to operate, to ensure that Buddy was one out against Ryder. Buddy gets nine goals and all the plaudits. Boyle gets calls to be dropped because he didn't touch it enough. Quite frankly, if you were playing in a forward line where Buddy commands the overwhelming attention of the midfielders, you'd hardly touch it too.
Similarly, against Adelaide, he also ensured that his man was taken out of the play as best as possible and he also had some very good touches under pressure which helped to create opportunities for us.
He also allows Clarkson to throw Williams into the midfield for 5 minutes to allow a midfielder to have a rest without robbing our forward line of its potency.
He is a much better option at the minute than Dowler. Thorp is injured so cannot be considered.
B&GBlood
16 Jun 2008, 14:19
Thank you Dixie,
Boyle is doing exactly what his coach wants. He is taking the third tall away from the marking contest.
Other teams know they cannot leave him alone. He is a good mark and can kick from 50.
Every dog has his day, Boyle will be ignored by some team soon, hopefully on that day our midfileders do not ignore him too.
lethalselbow
16 Jun 2008, 15:01
Boyle's position in the 22 is safe as houses at the minute.
The reason?
He is following his coach's instructions perfectly.
Against Essendon, he dragged his man away from the forward area where Buddy likes to operate, to ensure that Buddy was one out against Ryder. Buddy gets nine goals and all the plaudits. Boyle gets calls to be dropped because he didn't touch it enough. Quite frankly, if you were playing in a forward line where Buddy commands the overwhelming attention of the midfielders, you'd hardly touch it too.
Similarly, against Adelaide, he also ensured that his man was taken out of the play as best as possible and he also had some very good touches under pressure which helped to create opportunities for us.
He also allows Clarkson to throw Williams into the midfield for 5 minutes to allow a midfielder to have a rest without robbing our forward line of its potency.
He is a much better option at the minute than Dowler. Thorp is injured so cannot be considered.
Nice one. :thumbsu:
He will need to stand up and kick a couple at some stage.
I was surprised that Boyle came straight back in after his injury lay-off. He is obviously highly rated by the match committee. He has ability and , if given the ball, will earn his keep for sure.
hawks_time
16 Jun 2008, 15:24
Don't forget he's only played something like 35 games.
Maybloom madness
16 Jun 2008, 15:42
Boyle's position in the 22 is safe as houses at the minute.
The reason?
He is following his coach's instructions perfectly.
Against Essendon, he dragged his man away from the forward area where Buddy likes to operate, to ensure that Buddy was one out against Ryder. Buddy gets nine goals and all the plaudits. Boyle gets calls to be dropped because he didn't touch it enough. Quite frankly, if you were playing in a forward line where Buddy commands the overwhelming attention of the midfielders, you'd hardly touch it too.
Similarly, against Adelaide, he also ensured that his man was taken out of the play as best as possible and he also had some very good touches under pressure which helped to create opportunities for us.
He also allows Clarkson to throw Williams into the midfield for 5 minutes to allow a midfielder to have a rest without robbing our forward line of its potency.
He is a much better option at the minute than Dowler. Thorp is injured so cannot be considered.
:thumbsu: Finally there is someone on this board who understands whats going on...
Boyle allows Clarkson to play Williams and Buddy up the field. Clarksons philosphy is to play his best 22 irrespective of their supposed ideal positions on the field. Clakson knows that many of his players can slot into different roles and play them well.
Boyler_Room
16 Jun 2008, 16:50
My name suggests I love the Boyler and there are too many upsides to his game to leave him out. Players are way too Buddy focused and the reason Boyler was out is because Buddy took a defender to his space and caused the pack, not the fact that he fell on him, I don't mind that he fell on him in a pack at the top of the square but not at the 50m line.
If Buddy was to get a week off from the incident in the Adeliade game it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Our players need to start kicking to other players. It's one of the main reasons we lost the Semi-Final last year. I don't mind if everyone else in football does it, but when our own players start believing the hype it's all over.
That aside he needs to use the ball a bit better when he does get it and can be exposed at ground level. Will be looking to get a couple of goals soon to stop the talk.
allaboutseptember
16 Jun 2008, 17:54
it cant be easy when all our forward 50 entries are to Buddy and Roughie - at least willow has some pace and can go up the ground to get the ball. He is a great set shot, but starved of opportunities...
I reckon he is not too dissimilar to Jade Rawlings - wonder if we could ever turn him into a defender as we did with Rawlings, who was also good to go back up forward for some pinch hitting - i could see him playing that role well - and the guy does need another string to his bow
Roger Rogerson
16 Jun 2008, 20:48
Boyle's position in the 22 is safe as houses at the minute.
The reason?
He is following his coach's instructions perfectly.
Against Essendon, he dragged his man away from the forward area where Buddy likes to operate, to ensure that Buddy was one out against Ryder. Buddy gets nine goals and all the plaudits. Boyle gets calls to be dropped because he didn't touch it enough. Quite frankly, if you were playing in a forward line where Buddy commands the overwhelming attention of the midfielders, you'd hardly touch it too.
Similarly, against Adelaide, he also ensured that his man was taken out of the play as best as possible and he also had some very good touches under pressure which helped to create opportunities for us.
He also allows Clarkson to throw Williams into the midfield for 5 minutes to allow a midfielder to have a rest without robbing our forward line of its potency.
He is a much better option at the minute than Dowler. Thorp is injured so cannot be considered.
Great work Dixie.
He is playing the role of Dicko from last year. Not everyone in the side can kick 6 each week.
In saying that, he does need to improve his attack on the ball and man when it is in his vicinity if he wants to survive. He has looked well off the pace when it has been his turn the last two games, even cutting him some slack on his return to injury. He would want to show something this week - doesnt matter if he only gets 6-8 stats as long as the hardness is there.
It prob says more about what the coaches think of Dowler in that he hasn't managed a game in Boyle's absence and Boyle was rushed straight back in. Even Thorp has been an emergency after playing about 1 game in a row ahead of Dowler. Zac has too...need I go on????
Flamin Joe
16 Jun 2008, 21:06
I can't remember where I heard it or who said it, but basically playing as forward can be one of the worst positions to play in football. People focus too much on the stats which in a forwards case doesn't give a fair representation of what they do. It's not like your in the midfield, or on ball or even in defence were your a chance to pick up possesions and get yourself into the game.
If no one honours their leads and focus their attention on other forwards (like we do with Buddy and Roughy), it's not their fault. If the ball doesn't even get into the forward line much or the delivery is poor, it's not their fault. But people at the end of the game look at the stats, the lack of marks, the lack of goals, the lack of kicks/handpasses and somehow it suddendly becomes their fault and they've had a bad game. It's an unfair way of judging a forward.
The best judges of what he's doing are Clarkson and co. and if he remains in the team, then we have to accept he's doing everything Clarkson is asking of him. We shouldn't be the ones to pass judgement on him whether he should be in the team or not.
Hawka_de_Haven
16 Jun 2008, 22:23
So what do you do about Boyley if you're the selection panel?
The bloke is obviously a talented player, but has been veeeeery underwhelming whenever he has been picked to play this year - particularly in comparison to last year.
What do you do?
Drop him and play a small instead?
Give him a few more weeks to find his feet?
Whilst we're still winning, it probably wont be a major issue, but the knives will well and truly come out if we start losing in the near future.
Should Boyle be dropped to BH for a while to get back into form?
Only in his second game back from injury, he needs time to find his feet. He was however, conspicuously absent on Saturday night. I saw the number 20 on the teli and could not pick who it was. Did he not get much game time? As with everyone else I have not seen much of him in the last 2 months and was suprised to see him going around on Sat night, it was if he was not there.
Not sure if its a physical limitation or he has had enough of the Buddy mania. I am no shrink but I reckon all the Buddy hype must have some ill effects on some of the playing group. This is why Al and co. go to great lengths to predict that Buddy is but only another player. As if....
Back to Boyley. I think he has a lot to offer the club but I fear his effectiveness is being shadowed by a game plan which is based around others. If we had no Roughie and Buddy, Boyle would be, if not FF one of the leading targets up front for the best part of any game. He needs to get in and get the Ball, like Roughie does. More often than not his often ignored as a lead up target when he seldom leads and other times he does his best to keep out of the path of the two talls. I think that without marked improvement in the next 5 to 6 games his career will definitely be at the crossroads. He may be even be suffering from the effects of being one of the Hawks' traidbait last year. Something that may grate at him given he had his best season in 07.
It is a conundrum because even if he turns his form around whats to say that he is not traidbait again given there are plenty of clubs without leading fwds who are accurate kicks at goal and, given the hawks are out for a KP defender. Playing Boyle at the moment is not easy for anyone at Hawthorn.
mookieb
17 Jun 2008, 02:28
Anyone thought of what might happen if Buddy goes down with a serious injury or even Buddy and Roughy? You can never have too many athletic big men.
Hawksta
18 Jun 2008, 02:17
It has been stated that Boyle is doing exactly what Clarko asks of him... what more could you want from a player? If he is doing his role (which i believe he is) than thats perfect.
In the times he was tearing up last year, willow was out. The media types did question whether we could run all 4 of em (roughie and buddy included obviously). I reckon, keep him in the side. As mookieb said, you can never have too many as they're always going to stretch defences, its just a matter of not getting in the way of each other.
thatswhatimtalkinabout
18 Jun 2008, 03:32
My God Dixie, thank you for talking some sense and for punters listening to you.
It's so easy for us to compare Buddy & Smooth to all the other forwards in the comp and bag them, but then we go and slag our own who has an eighth of the supply.
He is well below what we expect out of him yet, but he has only had two games and he has done a job. Give him some time and he will straighten us up magnificently. It was only this preseason he kicked five in a half against Hawthorn in a intraclub match.
It's another bow - and I hear you all saying Gilly, Murph, et al would be a great third tall defenders - but I wonder why we aren't allowed to have a third tall forward?