prismall or kelly, who is better?

[themuddy#3]

who is the better midfielder? im not talking about potential or past form, but right now head to head who is better? and more importantly who is more deserved of a place in our team?

[CatmanForever]

Kelly

[cat_fanatic_21]

Kelly has proven to be consistent with good attacking and defensive aspects and he can play forward.

Pris has better disposal but not a great defensive side and has had one good game.

Its a no brainier.




Having said that, i'd still prefer to start Brent in the middle next week and Kelly on the HFF.

[Glassjaw]

God I hope this is a joke.

Kelly has been better than Bartel this year.

[madcat001]

Kelly. Don't underestimate his hard work and contested ball winning ability. Prismall was very impressive yesterday, but that was his first good game for a fair while, whereas kelly has been consistently improving for the last 18 months.

[themuddy#3]

God I hope this is a joke.

Kelly has been better than Bartel this year.i've been on jimmy's back a bit this year but surely that is a joke

[cats2rise]

Kelly.
And yes, I think Kelly has been better than Bartel this year.

[rooie]

Kelly.
And yes, I think Kelly has been better than Bartel this year.


ditto

[Geelongfor2008]

i would say kelly is better at the moment
but if prismall keeps this form up and obviously he will improve he will be better.

[themuddy#3]

Kelly.
And yes, I think Kelly has been better than Bartel this year.

kelly is averaging 21.6 disposals this year, is scoring 90 a game in supercoach and has kicked just the 3 goals despite playing as a hff for some of his games.

jimmeh is averaging 25.2 touches a game, he's averaging 106 in supercoach and over all his quality of possession is much better than kelly's.

[Barabbas]

Kelly. They're not even the same type of player. Kelly is harder at the ball, lays more tackles and gets more contested posessions.

[DaBigC]

Without doubt Kelly is the far better option. Prismall is good but in my mind has so much more to prove to be our best 22

[highflyingcat]

Kelly has added a hard edge to his game which was evident during the finals and has continued on this year; the Pris has got a fair way to catch up let alone overtake Kelly. Bartel may not be in Brownlow form but is still a better player than Kelly - this speaks volumes of Jimmy's ability and not Kelly's.

[The Sim Dog]

The one who has a premiership medallion and is probably top 5 best and fairest at the moment. Dumb question.

[forrrestGump]

prissa is so much better, he would win the brownlow if played 12 senior games, he is so hard done by
every club would give a 1st round pick for him, so good

[eliiiiza]

And some people on here say he isn't overrated. Hah! Of course he's good, but come on. This thread is ridiculous.

[rooie]

next thread will be "Who's better, Gamble or Mooney?" :p

[Ninty]

And some people on here say he isn't overrated. Hah! Of course he's good, but come on. This thread is ridiculous.

Sif you'd take a thread seriously by someone that can't even use their shift key.

[eliiiiza]

Sif you'd take a thread seriously by someone that can't even use their shift key.
Sif you'd stalk my posts.

[Ninty]

It's a Prissa thread, what you expect? :P ...and how I said I don't think he's overrated to you on the weekend... >_>.

[forrrestGump]

this thread should be how much better than prissa is byrnes

[eliiiiza]

It's a Prissa thread, what you expect? :P ...and how I said I don't think he's overrated to you on the weekend... >_>.
I think this thread says it all, really.

[themuddy#3]

And some people on here say he isn't overrated. Hah! Of course he's good, but come on. This thread is ridiculous. this thread isn't ridiculous, if i posted "lets drop kelly for prismall because prismall has the credentials and kelly is dead weight" that would be ridiculous.

instead i asked for a comparison between two midfielders with similar playing styles (not exactly the same but similar), and asked who was better.

i also think this thread is necessary as people want prizza in the team but insist on dropping a player like byrnes or rooke for him, who are different types of players.

i think kelly is the worst (least effective) of our offensive midfielders though he probably still has the edge on prizza but only just.

and i do admit i was expecting a bit more love for brenty boy;)

[rooie]

i think kelly is the worst (least effective) of our offensive midfielders though he probably still has the edge on prizza but only just.

and i do admit i was expecting a bit more love for brenty boy;)


its not about a lack of love for brent, its just that you are trying to compare him after a handful of games, and one above average performance. To suggest Kelly, a proven and experienced player on just has the edge on someone who struggles to get a game strikes most as 'ridiculous'....

I think Brent is great, but how can you compare him after so little game time?

[CatmanForever]

on this years form Kelly is in our top 5 players right now...prisa is not

[cats2rise]

kelly is averaging 21.6 disposals this year, is scoring 90 a game in supercoach and has kicked just the 3 goals despite playing as a hff for some of his games.

jimmeh is averaging 25.2 touches a game, he's averaging 106 in supercoach and over all his quality of possession is much better than kelly's.
Oh Lord! The day that Supercoach points settles an argument over a player is the day that I will lose interest in football. Thats stupid.

Kelly has looked sharper, harder and more hungry this year in my eyes. I just think he is improving again on last years form, while Bartel is just chugging along doing what he has to do, but not as good as last season.

I disagree that Bartel's disposal is cleaner than Kelly this year. I think Kelly is hitting a target a fair bit more than last year.

[cool cats]

thought prismall's game yesterday was great. limited game time (only played 71%) but a heap of disposals and an unbelievable 90 % effective disposals. great effort brenty boy!! :thumbsu:

[eliiiiza]

its not about a lack of love for brent, its just that you are trying to compare him after a handful of games, and one above average performance. To suggest Kelly, a proven and experienced player on just has the edge on someone who struggles to get a game strikes most as 'ridiculous'....

I think Brent is great, but how can you compare him after so little game time?
Took the words straight out of my mouth. :thumbsu:

[Skeppersap]

At one stage on saturday the ball was in dispute in the defensive 50. Kelly swooped on the ball at full pace, picked the ball up cleanly and disposed of the ball beautifully. How cleanly he handled the ball at full pace (it wasnt an easy ball to gather either) really caught my attention.

The one percenters and hard stuff he is doing these days is great. Just brilliant.

I am someone who wanted to trade him 18 months ago, now I would hate him to go.

Kelly all the way!

[a.f.k.a.y.o.p.]

its not a stupid post, but an interseting conversation starter - however it should answer one way every time. Kelly is tearing it up this year, lets just be greatful we have both. Theres comments on the WCE board indicating they want Pris next year - screw that! we havent even played them yet!

[Duskfire]

I agree - Kelly has been better then bartel this year. not to say that Bartel has been horrible, but Kellys one percenters and efforts have been really important to our team. if you looked at our best and fairest, he would definetly be top 5. Doesn't rack up the possessions like some midfielders, but just adds that little something to our team.

And kelly isn't there to kick goals. He is there to be a link man, something he does rather well as he is up there in goal assists. (equal third in the comp last time I checked.) So the amount of goals he has kicked this season is moot.

[passthebottle]

Kelly easily!!!
He does the stuff that most people seem to not see or ignore.
He has in the last 18 months changed his style of play for the better.
Pris has a long way to go yet.
And until he does it for an extended time he cant be compared.

[themuddy#3]

Oh Lord! The day that Supercoach points settles an argument over a player is the day that I will lose interest in football. Thats stupid.

Kelly has looked sharper, harder and more hungry this year in my eyes. I just think he is improving again on last years form, while Bartel is just chugging along doing what he has to do, but not as good as last season.

I disagree that Bartel's disposal is cleaner than Kelly this year. I think Kelly is hitting a target a fair bit more than last year.

super coach is more reliable than just putting up stats, if it worked like that kane cornes would be the best player in the comp, (but we all know how rubbish his possessions are.) but surely you would rather jimmy bartel or (more importantly) prismall get a kick as opposed to james kelly.

prizzas disposal by foot is excellent whilst kelly's is questionable. and while kelly's disposals are usually contested they are rarely as affective as one would want.

and the fact that he gets so many score assists (watever they are) only emphasizes the point that while he p[lays forward he doesn't kick goals.

but we are on top of the ladder, and whilst replacing solid performers such as kelly in exchange for talented fringe players such as pris is indeed illogical,
we want to keep this guy at our club and to do that he needs to play!

[Barabbas]

super coach is more reliable than just putting up stats, if it worked like that kane cornes would be the best player in the comp, (but we all know how rubbish his possessions are.) but surely you would rather jimmy bartel or (more importantly) prismall get a kick as opposed to james kelly.

prizzas disposal by foot is excellent whilst kelly's is questionable. and while kelly's disposals are usually contested they are rarely as affective as one would want.

and the fact that he gets so many score assists (watever they are) only emphasizes the point that while he p[lays forward he doesn't kick goals.

but we are on top of the ladder, and whilst replacing solid performers such as kelly in exchange for talented fringe players such as pris is indeed illogical,
we want to keep this guy at our club and to do that he needs to play!

There's your answer. Much harder to kick under pressure.

[JUBJUB]

What everyone else has said -Kelly easily

Now for the Scarlett or Kangars,who is better thread

[darren forssman]

there will be a lot of broken hearts come seasons end...

[cats2rise]

super coach is more reliable than just putting up stats, if it worked like that kane cornes would be the best player in the comp, (but we all know how rubbish his possessions are.) but surely you would rather jimmy bartel or (more importantly) prismall get a kick as opposed to james kelly.

prizzas disposal by foot is excellent whilst kelly's is questionable. and while kelly's disposals are usually contested they are rarely as affective as one would want.

and the fact that he gets so many score assists (watever they are) only emphasizes the point that while he p[lays forward he doesn't kick goals.

but we are on top of the ladder, and whilst replacing solid performers such as kelly in exchange for talented fringe players such as pris is indeed illogical,
we want to keep this guy at our club and to do that he needs to play!
SuperCoach does not tell you how/when the disposal was picked up, if it was a clean and crisp pick up if someone was on his tail etc etc. All it does it tell you black and white stat figures, and not the influence the player has with or without the ball. It should NEVER be used in a valid argument to dispute who the better player is. Sure, you can use the stats SuperCoach provides to say who scores more etc etc, but seriously... Its not valid when debating players and their skill etc. Bring on Champion Data stats anyday, but supercoach/dreamteam stats.. Pull the other one.

I am not arguing anything regarding Prismall. You argued that Bartel has been better than Kelly this year, and I was agreeing with someone else. I think Kelly has been the more infulential player between the two.

For future reference, score assists are given to the person that sets up the goal. Kelly playing on the HFF at times is a great asset to our team as he has good hands either on the lead or on the ground, while he has a great habit of being able to turn out of trouble while he has clean skills by foot the majority of the time this season.

So thats why I believe Kelly has been better than Bartel, and that his last 18 months has shown why he is valuable to the team. I see why you want Prismall in the team due to his past fortnight, but to question his position over Kelly I believe is stupid as I think Kelly has been a better player than Bartel.... I doubt you would want to drop Bartel for Prismall.

Prismall just needs to wait and show what he has when he gets the chance, much like he is now. Ive been very happy with him the past two weeks.

[Rubberducky]

but we are on top of the ladder, and whilst replacing solid performers such as kelly in exchange for talented fringe players such as pris is indeed illogical,
we want to keep this guy at our club and to do that he needs to play!

Kelly has been more than a 'solid' performer this year. As a forward, yes, he's missed a few shots on goal, but his score assists are score assists as he's played a link up role not deep in attack. And might I add he's played this role as a defensive forward on the oppositions dangerous half back rebounding players to keep them accountable and stop their run.

Kelly is head and shoulders ahead of Prismall in regards to selection of teams every week at this stage.

Perhaps your thread should be more about what the club can do to keep Prismall in the senior side without trying to compare him to another player?

He was given a chance this week with a structure that saw us structure up with ground level attacking half back and half forwards, it was a game where it suited us to have more ground level / 'contested footy' players that enjoy a contest. Thats not to say he steps aside for Wojak this week as we play the Eagles over there, or that it's Kelly that is the weaker midfield link and must make way.

Another thread has suggested that Bartel could use the rest, a likely option at this point.

Prismall spoke honestly after the game about needing to be versatile and adding that to his game, and how the coaches asked it of him, he worked on it in the reserves and needs to keep working at it. And I think that is the issue that against Sellwood, Kelly, Bartel, Corey he still needs to prove that he can fill 'other' roles, I'd love to see him do this in the senior side.

Whilst doing this there is now pressure on not only Kelly, but Selwood, Enright, Hunt, Varcoe, Wojak, Rooke, Taylor, Mackie and in those names if Prismall becomes versatile he puts pressure on a number of positions, the more players that create this pressure the less likely anyone will get comfortable.

But you don't risk games to get more games into him so there is only so much shuffling that can be done before you have to make that decision. Lucky for Prismall it's not just a Kelly or Prismall choice!!

[Cool Cat]

SuperCoach does not tell you how/when the disposal was picked up, if it was a clean and crisp pick up if someone was on his tail etc etc. All it does it tell you black and white stat figures, and not the influence the player has with or without the ball. It should NEVER be used in a valid argument to dispute who the better player is. Sure, you can use the stats SuperCoach provides to say who scores more etc etc, but seriously... Its not valid when debating players and their skill etc. Bring on Champion Data stats anyday, but supercoach/dreamteam stats.. Pull the other one.

I am not arguing anything regarding Prismall. You argued that Bartel has been better than Kelly this year, and I was agreeing with someone else. I think Kelly has been the more infulential player between the two.

For future reference, score assists are given to the person that sets up the goal. Kelly playing on the HFF at times is a great asset to our team as he has good hands either on the lead or on the ground, while he has a great habit of being able to turn out of trouble while he has clean skills by foot the majority of the time this season.

So thats why I believe Kelly has been better than Bartel, and that his last 18 months has shown why he is valuable to the team. I see why you want Prismall in the team due to his past fortnight, but to question his position over Kelly I believe is stupid as I think Kelly has been a better player than Bartel.... I doubt you would want to drop Bartel for Prismall.

Prismall just needs to wait and show what he has when he gets the chance, much like he is now. Ive been very happy with him the past two weeks.


I understand what you are saying, but stats are still a good indication of a player's form and influence, especially when they are as exhaustive as champion data stats (as you acknowledge). Supercoach, by the way, uses champion data stats/ratings (in their entirety).
For what it is worth, Kelly is by far the more accomplished player and has been great this year. Prismall uses the ball exceptionally and deserves his chance. In this form he should play out the season in the seniors and be a big part of our future.

[themuddy#3]

SuperCoach does not tell you how/when the disposal was picked up, if it was a clean and crisp pick up if someone was on his tail etc etc. All it does it tell you black and white stat figures, and not the influence the player has with or without the ball. It should NEVER be used in a valid argument to dispute who the better player is. Sure, you can use the stats SuperCoach provides to say who scores more etc etc, but seriously... Its not valid when debating players and their skill etc. Bring on Champion Data stats anyday, but supercoach/dreamteam stats.. Pull the other one.

I am not arguing anything regarding Prismall. You argued that Bartel has been better than Kelly this year, and I was agreeing with someone else. I think Kelly has been the more infulential player between the two.

For future reference, score assists are given to the person that sets up the goal. Kelly playing on the HFF at times is a great asset to our team as he has good hands either on the lead or on the ground, while he has a great habit of being able to turn out of trouble while he has clean skills by foot the majority of the time this season.

So thats why I believe Kelly has been better than Bartel, and that his last 18 months has shown why he is valuable to the team. I see why you want Prismall in the team due to his past fortnight, but to question his position over Kelly I believe is stupid as I think Kelly has been a better player than Bartel.... I doubt you would want to drop Bartel for Prismall.

Prismall just needs to wait and show what he has when he gets the chance, much like he is now. Ive been very happy with him the past two weeks.

so right now if you had to choose between jimmy bartel and james kelly to get a game you would pick kelly, im not patronizing, im just surprised how many people rate kelly so highly. perhaps i have underrated kelly (though im more inclined to assume that you guys are overrating him) and he is essential to our forward structure.

but im still skeptical about score assists,

[cats2rise]

I understand what you are saying, but stats are still a good indication of a player's form and influence, especially when they are as exhaustive as champion data stats (as you acknowledge). Supercoach, by the way, uses champion data stats/ratings (in their entirety).
For what it is worth, Kelly is by far the more accomplished player and has been great this year. Prismall uses the ball exceptionally and deserves his chance. In this form he should play out the season in the seniors and be a big part of our future.

Yeah I realise SuperCoach uses ChampionData stats, but I dont think SuperCoach/Dreamteam should be used to argue players worth.... Only if you are discussing Supercoach haha.

And yes, Champion Data stats are a good indication of a players form and influence.. I meant Supercoach when I said Champion Data regarding a players form etc.. My mistake!

[Rubberducky]

so right now if you had to choose between jimmy bartel and james kelly to get a game you would pick kelly, im not patronizing, im just surprised how many people rate kelly so highly. perhaps i have underrated kelly (though im more inclined to assume that you guys are overrating him) and he is essential to our forward structure.

but im still skeptical about score assists,

Why would anyone make a decision on Kelly vs Bartel, you'd drop Prismall before both of them.

Seriously though, in naming the 22 in my opinion I'd name Bartel before Kelly at this point in the season BUT I would suggest that Kelly would have polled more votes in the B&F count than Bartel so far this year. The roles they play are different, they are versatile in different ways, and of course I'd consider their value to the team in regards to what they've achieved in the last 12 months. (Another string to Kellys bow is his football knowledge, and I know that most of our midfielders are claimed to be great on field leaders but I can remember both Egan and Ling last year talking about how he's incredibly quick to pick up on what opposition teams are attempting to do and make in play calls on whats happening). But you're talking 2007 Brownlow medalist vs a better start to 2008 and I'd select Bartel first, but only just...

[cats2rise]

so right now if you had to choose between jimmy bartel and james kelly to get a game you would pick kelly, im not patronizing, im just surprised how many people rate kelly so highly. perhaps i have underrated kelly (though im more inclined to assume that you guys are overrating him) and he is essential to our forward structure.

Kelly is in better form and has been the better performer so far this season, yes. Overall though, Bartel wins hands down while looking at their respective careers due to Kelly's laziness etc while Bartel's 2007 speaks for itself.

They both have different attributes (Bartel - courage, hard ball, marking for his size... and how many times has he taken a mark running into a pack etc) and I would hate to pick one over the other, although going on their past records, Bartel would be picked over Kelly... however Kelly has been has been the better performer out of the two in my eyes.

[The Sim Dog]

super coach is more reliable than just putting up stats, if it worked like that kane cornes would be the best player in the comp, (but we all know how rubbish his possessions are.) but surely you would rather jimmy bartel or (more importantly) prismall get a kick as opposed to james kelly.

No I wouldn't. Kelly is about as silky as we get outside of Ablett Jnr. Do you actually watch footy?

prizzas disposal by foot is excellent whilst kelly's is questionable. and while kelly's disposals are usually contested they are rarely as affective as one would want.

Kelly's disposal > Prismall's disposal. Simple as that and contested disposals are very important. Both win their fair share of these. Again do you pay attention while watching? Are you Prismall's father?

And the fact that he gets so many score assists (watever they are) only emphasizes the point that while he plays forward he doesn't kick goals.

It emphasises the fact that Kelly disposal is actually excellent as it is directly leading to goals by team mates. If you're not kicking goals then the next best thing you can do is set them up. Again a ridiculously stupid comment from you.

but we are on top of the ladder, and whilst replacing solid performers such as kelly in exchange for talented fringe players such as pris is indeed illogical, we want to keep this guy at our club and to do that he needs to play!

Have no idea what you are trying to say here and don't really care. Kelly is not making way for Prismall. Bad luck.

[Copernicus]

Bit of a silly thread, really. Prissa has been good since coming into the team but you couldn't say that he is better value than a bloke like Kelly, who has been good all year and brings hardness and versatility that Pris lacks currently.

Maybe have this discussion in a year or so, if we manage to keep a hold of Pris.

[cat_fanatic_21]

Kelly's disposal > Prismall's disposal. Simple as that and contested disposals are very important. Both win their fair share of these. Again do you pay attention while watching? Are you Prismall's father?

Prismall's disposal >> Kelly's disposal, you don't have to be Pupa Pris to figure that one out. There is no such thing as "contested disposal", its how you attain the ball. Prismall can get his own ball but Kelly is better in contested situations. Prismall is a far better user of the ball than Kel.


It emphasises the fact that Kelly disposal is actually excellent as it is directly leading to goals by team mates. If you're not kicking goals then the next best thing you can do is set them up. Again a ridiculously stupid comment from you.


Goal assists are awarded when a player's disposal when inside 50 leads directly to the kicking of a goal by another player. This means Kelly is reluctant to have a shot from inside 50. Sure its a great stat, but it usually means stuffing around with the ball inside 50.

Prismall sets up goals from outside fifty (hence his 6 inside fifties) with his great kicking. These are not counted as goal assists but are a more direct path to goal than an actual goal assist.


You'd pick Kelly before Prismall, its not the greatest thread IMO, i'm just a huge fan of how Pris goes about it. Other than Ablett and Selwood, our other major ball winners share a common fault in their game and that is effective inside fifties; Pris is a gun in this department.

[TEDDY24INC]

this thread isn't ridiculous, if i posted "lets drop kelly for prismall because prismall has the credentials and kelly is dead weight" that would be ridiculous.

instead i asked for a comparison between two midfielders with similar playing styles (not exactly the same but similar), and asked who was better.

i also think this thread is necessary as people want prizza in the team but insist on dropping a player like byrnes or rooke for him, who are different types of players.

i think kelly is the worst (least effective) of our offensive midfielders though he probably still has the edge on prizza but only just.
and i do admit i was expecting a bit more love for brenty boy;)


kelly a fair way ahead, he has been very good this year imo. Alot of people dont notice how much contested footy he wins, and he rarely gets beaten in a one on one. prismall is more of an outside player with alot of polish, kelly is more of an inside player so i dont think you can say they have similiar playing styles

[The Sim Dog]

Prismall's disposal >> Kelly's disposal, you don't have to be Pupa Pris to figure that one out. There is no such thing as "contested disposal", its how you attain the ball. Prismall can get his own ball but Kelly is better in contested situations. Prismall is a far better user of the ball than Kel.

No. Just ####ing no! Have you wondered why Kelly has been a regular in our best team? He has some of the best disposal in our team. Prismall uses it well don't get me wrong but there is no way you can put him on Kelly's level. For no other reason than we have not seen enough of it at senior level. He has been stiff in that regard but that's the way it gos. I'd still think we've seen enough to say Kelly is ahead of him there.

Far better user than Kelly? Give me a bloody break. That is an ignorant thing to say.

Goal assists are awarded when a player's disposal when inside 50 leads directly to the kicking of a goal by another player. This means Kelly is reluctant to have a shot from inside 50. Sure its a great stat, but it usually means stuffing around with the ball inside 50.

Or perhaps it means Kelly is searching for a player in better position which is not always easy to do in a congested forward 50. This is a team priority, you don't think it's good that Kelly is following it?

Prismall sets up goals from outside fifty (hence his 6 inside fifties) with his great kicking. These are not counted as goal assists but are a more direct path to goal than an actual goal assist.

Well bugger me. That must not have been Kelly hitting forwards (Mooney, Chapman, Stokes, Nablett, etc.) lace out on the chest after hard leads about 35-40 metres out with not much angle ALL LAST YEAR. :rolleyes:

You'd pick Kelly before Prismall, its not the greatest thread IMO, i'm just a huge fan of how Pris goes about it.

That's fine so am I. It's a shame he has not played more senior footy. But that's no reason to be saying such woefully inaccurate things about Kelly.

[cats2rise]

I think Prismalls disposal is pretty good, but I think Kelly has some of the best skills at the club.

[cat_fanatic_21]

No. Just ####ing no! Have you wondered why Kelly has been a regular in our best team? He has some of the best disposal in our team. Prismall uses it well don't get me wrong but there is no way you can put him on Kelly's level. For no other reason than we have not seen enough of it at senior level. He has been stiff in that regard but that's the way it gos. I'd still think we've seen enough to say Kelly is ahead of him there.

Far better user than Kelly? Give me a bloody break. That is an ignorant thing to say.


Or perhaps it means Kelly is searching for a player in better position which is not always easy to do in a congested forward 50. This is a team priority, you don't think it's good that Kelly is following it?


Well bugger me. That must not have been Kelly hitting forwards (Mooney, Chapman, Stokes, Nablett, etc.) lace out on the chest after hard leads about 35-40 metres out with not much angle ALL LAST YEAR. :rolleyes:


That's fine so am I. It's a shame he has not played more senior footy. But that's no reason to be saying such woefully inaccurate things about Kelly.

Many people will agree with me that Pris is a better user of the ball than Kelly; hardly ignorant - its just opinion (apparently mine isn't as good as yours).

There were 12 players with more inside 50's than Kelly on Sunday so yes, bugger you. You have proven one thing with this post; that you can't construct an argument without adopting a sarcastic tone and criticising others football knowledge; a lousy attempt to make your opinion sound superior to others. Nice work.

[cats2rise]

I think more would say Kellys disposal is better actually. In this thread they have, thats for sure.

[The Sim Dog]

Many people will agree with me that Pris is a better user of the ball than Kelly; hardly ignorant - its just opinion (apparently mine isn't as good as yours).

There were 12 players with more inside 50's than Kelly on Sunday so yes, bugger you. You have proven one thing with this post; that you can't construct an argument without adopting a sarcastic tone and criticising others football knowledge; a lousy attempt to make your opinion sound superior to others. Nice work.

Is that what this is all about? Last Sunday? All you have proven is that you love Prismall and are happy to disregard everything Kelly has done over the last year and a half. And while many (i'd doubt it) may think Prismall is better with the ball than Kelly I'd think a large majority would disagree.

[cat_fanatic_21]

Is that what this is all about? Last Sunday? All you have proven is that you love Prismall and are happy to disregard everything Kelly has done over the last year and a half. And while many (i'd doubt it) may think Prismall is better with the ball than Kelly I'd think a large majority would disagree.

Well at least you have settled down. Most wouldn't know because Pris has barely been given a chance. There is little more than Sunday to take into account as far as Prismall is concerned so most of what i have said is in reference to his Sunday effort, yes.

You must remember what i'm arguing here, im not saying that Pris is better than Kelly. Kel has many more sides to his game. I just think that Pris should be played because he is a naturally skilled footballer that adds a dimension to our team that i think we lack; an outside receiver that hit's targets 90% of the time.

[The Sim Dog]

Well at least you have settled down. Most wouldn't know because Pris has barely been given a chance. There is little more than Sunday to take into account as far as Prismall is concerned so most of what i have said is in reference to his Sunday effort, yes.

You must remember what i'm arguing here, im not saying that Pris is better than Kelly. Kel has many more sides to his game. I just think that Pris should be played because he is a naturally skilled footballer that adds a dimension to our team that i think we lack; an outside receiver that hit's targets 90% of the time.

I'm happy with Prismall in. On the main board right now I have made posts including him in our absolute best 22. That's with Egan, etc in. Personally I would have him in ahead or Byrnes, Varcoe, Gamble, Taylor (depending on our big defender injuries etc.) and even Wojak now. Just not over Kelly.

[cat_fanatic_21]

I think more would say Kellys disposal is better actually. In this thread they have, thats for sure.

Sorry man but they have not said that at all. All posts up until this page have been debating Kelly vs Prismall's value to the team; who is better (the answer is obviously Kelly), not who has better disposal which is what i was defending when TSD argued K > P.

I'm happy with Prismall in. On the main board right now I have made posts including him in our absolute best 22. That's with Egan, etc in. Personally I would have him in ahead or Byrnes, Varcoe, Gamble, Taylor (depending on our big defender injuries etc.) and even Wojak now. Just not over Kelly.

I completely agree.

[cats2rise]

Sorry man but they have not said that at all. All posts up until this page have been debating Kelly vs Prismall's value to the team; who is better (the answer is obviously Kelly), not who has better disposal which is what i was defending when TSD argued K > P.


But the majority of people who have mentioned disposal have said Kellys is better.... :confused:

[The Sim Dog]

Sorry man but they have not said that at all. All posts up until this page have been debating Kelly vs Prismall's value to the team; who is better (the answer is obviously Kelly), not who has better disposal which is what i was defending when TSD argued K > P.

All 'votes' if you want to count them up to now read 17 to 4 in favour of kelly and that is including Forrest who I'm pretty sure was being sarcastic. Nearly all of those 17 have said Kelly is ahead in all facets of the game even though they like Pris and he played a blinder against Port.

[cat_fanatic_21]

But the majority of people who have mentioned disposal have said Kellys is better.... :confused:

Can you quote the people who have said this (other than yourself) in this thread? I can't. As i said the majority of Geelong supporters have not seen enough of Prismall to comment anyway.


All 'votes' if you want to count them up to now read 17 to 4 in favour of kelly and that is including Forrest who I'm pretty sure was being sarcastic. Nearly all of those 17 have said Kelly is ahead in all facets of the game even though they like Pris and he played a blinder against Port.

Really, i have read all the posts also and there is no reference to Kelly's disposal being better than Prismalls bar yourself and c2r (there is also a few for Pris by cool cats and the thread starter). Kelly is better than Prismall at "all facets of the game" if you were to average them out i agree, but not disposal alone.

[sarah.13]

There's a reason that Prismall has not been playing seniors,and that is the other mids are considered to be ahead of him by the match committee.

Now that they are freshening players, i.e Selwood's gastro and woja's soreness he is getting a game. You'll find several more players given a week off in the future and Pris will have his chance to shine.

[cat_fanatic_21]

There's a reason that Prismall has not been playing seniors,and that is the other mids are considered to be ahead of him by the match committee.

Now that they are freshening players, i.e Selwood's gastro and woja's soreness he is getting a game. You'll find several more players given a week off in the future and Pris will have his chance to shine.

What if he does shine? If he plays similarly to how he did on Sunday for the next few weeks, would you drop him?

[sarah.13]

What if he does shine? If he plays similarly to how he did on Sunday for the next few weeks, would you drop him?

No, whoever is 100% fit and in form gets a game.
Have never been a Prismall fan but I was impressed on Sunday. Pretty sure he'll stay in for a few weeks yet. Come the pointy end of the year the best inform 22 will be playing. If he is one of them then he'll be in.

[cats2rise]

Can you quote the people who have said this (other than yourself) in this thread? I can't. As i said the majority of Geelong supporters have not seen enough of Prismall to comment anyway.

Well by my count its 3 - 1... thats a majority :p

So you have seen more of Prismall, thus you are automatically right?? Don't get me wrong, I think Prismall's disposal is great, I am a fan and I hope he doesnt leave the club, but I think Kelly's disposal is better than Prismall at this stage.

[The Sim Dog]

Well by my count its 3 - 1... thats a majority :p

So you have seen more of Prismall, thus you are automatically right?? Don't get me wrong, I think Prismall's disposal is great, I am a fan and I hope he doesnt leave the club, but I think Kelly's disposal is better than Prismall at this stage.

And that's 3 - 1 without asking all 17 about who they think are better in this area. This is a strength of Kelly's game. Prismall not getting in the team enough is not Kelly's fault.

[cat_fanatic_21]

Well by my count its 3 - 1... thats a majority :p

So you have seen more of Prismall, thus you are automatically right?? Don't get me wrong, I think Prismall's disposal is great, I am a fan and I hope he doesnt leave the club, but I think Kelly's disposal is better than Prismall at this stage.

Fair enough, that's your opinion. I happen to think Pris is behind only Scarlett, Ablett and Chapman in terms of disposal on our list. You don't have to share my opinion, i'm just throwing it out there because that is what i believe.

I counted 3 - 1 in Prismall's favour (not inc you, me or TSD in which case it would be 4 - 3, a majority;)).

And that's 3 - 1 without asking all 17 about who they think are better in this area. This is a strength of Kelly's game. Prismall not getting in the team enough is not Kelly's fault.

Your right, its not Kelly's fault Pris isn't getting a game. Kelly has a well rounded game, but i think Pris has better disposal.

[cats2rise]

As you said we both have different opinions, and its as simple as that.

[Mcleod_Nine]

Kelly i reckon, but Prismall looked really good on the weekend against Port, but Kelly is still better

[DanA]

I would take Kelly over Prismall without question.

Prismall disposal is better than Kelly IMO. Kelly can have a beautiful kick that rockets like hunts but he shanks it a little too often.

Supercoach is a good indicator but not perfect. Bartel has been far less accountable than Kelly this year. Kelly has often had bid defensive jobs. I would drop Bartel over Kelly ATM. Obviously Bartel at his best is better than Kelly but Bartel isn't at his best. I'd have Kelly coming No.4 in the B&F behind 1.Ablett, 2. Scarlett, 3. Corey. Bartel would not be in the top 10 IMO.

[rooie]

Can you quote the people who have said this (other than yourself) in this thread? I can't. As i said the majority of Geelong supporters have not seen enough of Prismall to comment anyway.



this sounds a bit elitist. Do you think somehow you have seen more of Prismall than the rest of us?

I would say they both have excellent disposal. However I would put Kelly ahead on that front though because I think he reads the play better so puts it in a better position alot of the time than Prisa would. Oddly he has missed a few shots this year, last year however i would have put him as one of the most accurate kicks in the team when going for goal, behind only Ling probably, but he has got the shakes a little this year.

[cat_fanatic_21]

this sounds a bit elitist. Do you think somehow you have seen more of Prismall than the rest of us?

I would say they both have excellent disposal. However I would put Kelly ahead on that front though because I think he reads the play better so puts it in a better position alot of the time than Prisa would. Oddly he has missed a few shots this year, last year however i would have put him as one of the most accurate kicks in the team when going for goal, behind only Ling probably, but he has got the shakes a little this year.

Not at all. It was not supposed to come across like that, rather i meant that Prismall has not had enough senior game time for most to have formed an opinion. I have watched a lot of Pris in the VFL, which i guess is the basis for that statement.

[cats2rise]

Would it be easier for him to appear to have better disposal in the vfl with the quality around him though?

[themuddy#3]

Would it be easier for him to appear to have better disposal in the vfl with the quality around him though?
true, as we have only seen a few firsts games most of us are going by his vfl performances (where he has starred). but imo a good kick is a good kick, whatever the level and prizza is without doubt a good kick.

[Cat_Lady19]

i think kelly is better very hard worker and has imporved since last year. I think prismall needs to be traded although he is good there isnt any room for him in the top 22.

[Duskfire]

i think kelly is better very hard worker and has imporved since last year. I think prismall needs to be traded although he is good there isnt any room for him in the top 22.

I agree. I am not sure on the traded bit, in the long run of things its hard to see Prismall being a permanent selection. Wojak didn't play at all in the VFL last week, which suggests to me he was rested rather then dropped (or maybe both?) and as a result won't be out for that long. Scarlett needs to come back as well, and while he is a defender as opposed to a midfielder, its hard to see us dropping another defender for him.

In short, we have too many awesome midfielders and can't see prismall being able to get a consistent game without others being injured. Which is a shame, because he is a great player. And like all great players, he is not going to like standing on the sidelines.

[forrrestGump]

I agree. I am not sure on the traded bit, in the long run of things its hard to see Prismall being a permanent selection. Wojak didn't play at all in the VFL last week, which suggests to me he was rested rather then dropped (or maybe both?) and as a result won't be out for that long. Scarlett needs to come back as well, and while he is a defender as opposed to a midfielder, its hard to see us dropping another defender for him.

In short, we have too many awesome midfielders and can't see prismall being able to get a consistent game without others being injured. Which is a shame, because he is a great player. And like all great players, he is not going to like standing on the sidelines.


He is a good player, he is not great

[darren forssman]

Scarlett needs to come back as well, and while he is a defender as opposed to a midfielder, its hard to see us dropping another defender for him.

i concur...

He is a good player, he is not great

most sensible thing you have posted.

[TheTimeCometh]

i get it now. i underplayed the messiah's worth. much to the chargrin of some fanatics.

[cat in sydney]

Problem is, now that Pris is in, and playing well, how will they drop him? Based on the last couple of games, you would drop Bartel before Prismall, but we know that ain't gonna happen.
But seriously, if he keeps racking up 20+ disposals each week, with good efficiency, how do you drop him, and who for?

[Ninty]

Isn't that answer simple? You don't drop him.

[cat in sydney]

Isn't that answer simple? You don't drop him.

Which means not only Wojak stays out, but someone else needs to be dropped when Scarlett comes back in. Who?

[darren forssman]

Which means not only Wojak stays out, but someone else needs to be dropped when Scarlett comes back in. Who?

im assuming the messiah's fans will call for the head of varcoe...will pontius pilot (thompson) placate the masses and stop hysteria setting in???

[cat_fanatic_21]

Which means not only Wojak stays out, but someone else needs to be dropped when Scarlett comes back in. Who?

Taylor is playing for Scarlett so i guess he would be dropped when Scarlo returns.

[Duskfire]

Taylor is playing for Scarlett so i guess he would be dropped when Scarlo returns.

I had always thought Taylor was playing in place of Egan. granted Taylor did get dropped for that one match where Scarlett got injured, but prior to that he had played almost every game.

[stevie20]

I have heard that Wojcinski has a slight hamstring so don't be surprised if he doesn't play his week